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SGW: Current Information. (REAL version!)
Raltar
Member UncommonPosts: 829
Short Overview:
Star Gate Worlds (SGW) is being developed by a company called Cheyenne Mountain Entertainment (CME).
CME is owned by a guy named Gary Whiting who also owns another company called MMOGULS. MMOGULS is what most people call a pyramid scheme. Gary asks you to invest in MMORPG development (inculding the development of SGW) under the theory that you will be helping games you enjoy to be created, plus he will eventually pay you back and you might even make some extra money for yourself. Everyone wins right? So far that isn't the case. Many people have invested and have seen little or no return on their money. Only a very small portion of the money which was invested was ever used on the development of SGW. Where did all the money go? Nobody knows. One popular theory is into Gary's pocket.
As a result of this system, CME ran out of money early on and all development on SGW has stopped. For a long peroid of time the employees of CME weren't even being paid but were being harassed by management to keep working without pay. Many quit or stopped showing up for work. The beta testing had to be stopped because they could no longer afford to pay for the beta servers they were using. the game is now in limbo and CME is crippled by the lost of the vast majority of their skilled employees.
Present Day:
Currently there is NOTHING happening on the game. The developers have released no new news and can't even seem to post any new screen shots of the game. They have almost completely shut down and clammed up, trying to stop the flow of any information out of their company about the state of the game.
Meanwhile, Gary, MMOGULS and CME are facing multiple lawsuits! CME is named in atleast EIGHT of these lawsuits! You can find a list here:
www.superiorcourt.maricopa.gov/docket/CivilCourtCases/caseSearchResults.asp
Beta Testing:
There is no beta testing. It ended last year when CME stopped paying the company which provided their beta servers and the servers were taken away. Atleast one of the lawsuits they are now facing is for the money they still owe to the server company.
If you go to the official forums and website, you won't even be able to register for beta testing.
It amazes most people that they can even keep a website for the game online. Don't hold your breath for a new beta test any time soon.
So whats the deal with that OTHER version of events?
You mean the one posted by that lapdog, Tylantia/Kadael? Hes just a fanboy who has spent a the last several years of his life working on a wiki for SGW. He can't handle the fact that CME is going out of business and that SGW will never be released. So he comes here every few months to give us an "update" on the game. He leaves out all the critical details, like the lawsuits and the fact that Gary owns CME. He will even directly deny any "connection" between these issues. You can ignore him, he won't listen to anyone but the developers of the game and can't stand the fact that you might listen to someone other than him.
Comments
I think Tylantia/Kadael posts here as a way of 'poking you' with his wiki stick. That way he gets updated information that CME wont tell even him.
So in a way you are feeding the troll!
Just a thought!
If he wants information, all he has to do is read the forum like everyone else. Posting faulty and/or incomplete information on whats actually happening with the game doesn't result in him being better informed, nor does it help anyone else.
The History of the Order of The Golden Shields
Whats with the hate against Kadael? He is just trying to give information about the game and not about how Gary Whiting has treated it. I don't think there was a need to basically take the time to make a stab at Kadael for supporting a game. I recommend growing up a bit. Everyone knows about CME's trouble and going on about won't change things. Also the wiki is the game and not the company making it. I would say ignore you as you are just trying to create hate on these forums.
Whats with the hate against Kadael? He is just trying to give information about the game and not about how Gary Whiting has treated it. I don't think there was a need to basically take the time to make a stab at Kadael for supporting a game. I recommend growing up a bit. Everyone knows about CME's trouble and going on about won't change things. Also the wiki is the game and not the company making it. I would say ignore you as you are just trying to create hate on these forums.
Kadeal lies to the fanbase plain and simple. There is no news to post and his "news" post is the same old company spin. He failed on his 2 week screenshots, heck CME can't even get the threading code in VVB to work right on their forums. The wiki just hopefull fanwritten crap and has nothing to do with the game because there is no real info on the game.
What has Kadael got to do with the 2 week screenshots (are you confusing Khestral with Kadael)? Honestly a bit of info was gathered by me when I dug into the info and screenshots released on the developers portfolios and I picked them apart. So you can say some of the fan written crap is mine
.
My only problem with Kadael is that he does not want people to have COMPLETE information. He comes here to post HYPE for the game, not facts. He carefully glosses over the lawsuits, employees not being paid, Gary owning CME and many other facts.
If you look closely at his arguements you will see that he has NO FACTS to back up his opinion that the game is "still being worked on" as he puts it. He thinks that just because the game still has a website that the game is still in development. Anyone who knows the first thing about video games knows thats crap. There are hundreds of games out there with official websites that are not in development. It takes no effort to host a website, much less one that never gets updated anymore anyway. You might as well tell me that Panovation Studios is a real game developer with that kind of "evidence" to back up your arguement.
All I want is for him to stop trying to convince people this game is in development, when all evidence points to the exact opposite. I want him to quit saying the sky is green. He can go back to talking his crap when pigs fly, the sky turns green and CME releases a game. Until then, I'm going to stick to the FACTS.
The History of the Order of The Golden Shields
Near enough everyone in the SGW community know the game SGW is on hold, they know no further development is taking place on it.
The majority know that an interim title is being worked on (possibly SGB).
They know that the interim title is in hold as promised funds have not been forthcoming.
Atm pretty much everyone knows CME is having problems and that plenty of things are going on that are causing issues to the development of title(s) at CME. No one is denying or should be denying there have been problems and there are still problems, but really Kadael is just showing his support for a game that even myself would really like to see out on the shelves.
I don't see any real reason to come down on him because of what he is saying about the current game status, some people dont reads the ofiicial forums, and seeing it from a fanboy view as well as the hater view is all well and good, people can draw there opinions from both.
It just makes me wonder what is worse a fanboy or a fanhater.....
Yellow, if SGW is "on hold" as you put it then that must mean Enron is "on hold", the Vietnam war is "on hold" and new Coke is "on hold", right?
It's one thing to support a game that's being made but supporting SGW and encouraging persons such as Kadael is akin to supporting the flat Earth society or Scientologists in my opinion! The FanOri (the 5-6 that are left) need to just give it up and accept that SGW is not going to make it to launch. It's a pity and it must be a disappointment to people that have invested their time and money in this project, but it is little more than a charade to sell a crappy pyramid scheme now. It sux because it's true.
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
Thats just the thing! If you actually talk to Kadael and ask him to inculde that information in his "updates" on the game he will say right to your face that he doesn't believe ANY of that stuff. You say the majority of people know these things, Kadael must be in the minority because he insists that these are just rumors, "old rubbish" and lies. He will look you straight in the eyes and say that the game is still being worked on. I can only conculde he is a liar who knows better or he is insane, its impossible to determine which but in either case he is not a reliable source of information right now.
Even when you present Kadael with concrete evidence (such as the proof of the eight lawsuits) he will still refuse to listen. He will brand you a "hater" and put you on ignore. Then he goes right back to preaching his non-sense that the game is the salvation of humanity and will be released any day now. Its the same stunt I've seen a half dozen times before with many other games. The Dark and Light fanboys pulled the same stunt and there may even be one or two of them still lurking out there spreeading lies that the game is going to be rescued by the Chinese. There was a certain "correspondent" here on this website who did the same thing for Age of Conan even when 90% of the community was aginst him. There are still some wacko PvPers out there who think Shadowbane is going to come back from the dead or that Darkfall is going to get "better" soon. It is just not going to happen. All these games are dead and the far out stories that fanboys weave to hype up these games need to stop.
The History of the Order of The Golden Shields
Well until a court case is finished and it has a verdict then it cannot be taken as fact......
With these outstanding court cases we cannot assume the defendant or the other parties are guilty, the judge does that.
I wont deny there are court cases as that would be stupid, but to say he is guilty on every case before a judge gives his verdict is a little premature. I actually read some of them and I can see most are just ongoing, there is no outright yes or no answer, but really if you want to produce fact of guilt or wrong doing then post links to cases were a verdict was given, not a list of cases that have no verdict.
CME maybe in the wrong, they maybe in the right, but until the case is closed you cannot assume guilt, I believe the US says, innocent until proven guilty.
As a said before the game is on hold, as in the sense they havent shelved it. There is a difference about on hold and no longer being developed. Many programming projects I have been on, have put things on hold to finish other things, when something is shelved then its bye bye and no one is gonna look at it again.
A: Of course we are still waiting to see how the court cases will turn out. But the fact that there even are EIGHT court cases in the first place should tell us something. When was the last time you had eight seperate lawsuits filed aginst you at the same time, hmm? People who are doing the right thing usually do not come under this kind of attack.
B: Yes, that would be stupid. Care to explain to me then why the developers, Kadael and many other fanboys are doing exactly that?
C: Guilt and innocence apply to criminal cases. To the best of my knowledge, the majority of lawsuits currently standing aginst Gary, MMOGULS and CME are civil cases. In a civil case it only matters who can prove the facts. Alteast one of these lawsuits is by a former employee of CME who is probably going after back pay owed to him and/or wrongful termination. We already know that CME hasn't been paying their employees and they are now finally admitting to this. So I think its a pretty safe bet that most of these lawsuits are going to be able to easily prove that Gary/MMOGULS/CME owe money they haven't paid back yet.
The bottom line is this: The writing is on the wall and its only a matter of time now.
Some of us are willing to see that... and some apparently aren't.
The History of the Order of The Golden Shields
"Alteast one of these lawsuits is by a former employee of CME who is probably going after back pay owed to him and/or wrongful termination. We already know that CME hasn't been paying their employees and they are now finally admitting to this."
I hope that former employee gets his money! I don’t think it is fair that they are sometimes, maybe paying the current developers and not taking care of all of their responsibilities.
Maybe the new investors don’t want to pay the past debts? Well, CME shouldn’t take their money because it’s against the law not to pay what is owed when an employee leaves or is let go (they let a few devs go in August according to linked-in)
Hey, did anyone see that Chris Klug finally changed his status on linked-in saying that CME is his former employer? That’s another nail in the SGW coffin.
What makes you think we don't know about the court cases? What gives you the right to throw all these lies around. I have you know that Kadael and many of what you call "fanboys" actually know of the existence of these cases. In fact I have brought some of these cases to light on the SGW forums. I don't see why people are trying to create a smear campaign against people who follow SGW, but some are driving me crazy. Some people have made valid arguments about CME's problem like Agricola who I respect for bringing info to life, but I also don't like him for his treatment of the fan base but that is life. Also you said the wiki didn't say the whole story. Here is part of the whole story that you love to see. en.stargateworldswiki.com/wiki/The_Development_Team I would also like to say I keep an open mind about SGW and people who know me online and off know I speak my mind. At times I have destroyed CME in conversations about SGW and other times I have praised the game.
You can update your Dev Team list as the following people are long gone from CME:
Joseph Ybarra
Maxfield Stewart
Darren Steele
Christopher Bernert
Ho Joon Choi
Nick LaMartina
Bill Slease
Jimbo Younkin
Rollin Hafner
R.C. Torres
To be honest I haven't had time to look at the staff left.
A: Oh, I'm sure that Kadael "knows" about them. He knows because I have personally witnessed him being told several times. My issue is that he will not listen. Any time anyone says anything bad about SGW he declares that person a "hater" and puts them on ignore. Any time anyone asks him why he doesn't want to discuss the lawsuits or money problems with the game he says its "old rubbish" and refuses to discuss it. He is only here to create HYPE for the game. He doesn't care about the truth.
B: Nothing I have said is a lie. Kadael has less than 30 posts on this forum. If you read through them you will see for yourself he has done nothing but try to assure people the game is fine and still being worked on... which is the exact same thing the developers have been doing for the last year and was never the truth.
C: Like I said, I'm sure they do. They just don't want to admit to it because then they would also have to admit that any money Gary has left is probably going to get taken away from him and he will never finish SGW. If they do that then their fantasy is shattered and they would have to face reality like the rest of us. So its easier for them to live in dream land where they can just listen to the promises from the devs that the game will get finished and be the most wonderful thing ever. La de da de da.
The History of the Order of The Golden Shields
innocent until proven guilty in america i call BS...it is guilty untill proven innocent
Saying SGW is merely on hold is like saying Duke Nukem Forever is just slightly delayed.
@Ariccaron - I don't work for CME. Before you start whacking out the insults learn to read names correctly. The wiki is only "crap" to those who have no interest. As someone who hates WoW for example, the game would be considered "crap" by them.
@Raltar - Why would I inform everyone about the legal sides to the company when that is all you and Agri seem to do with your time (which is a tad wasteful) I've made no lie that CME are in financial trouble, heck neither has CME themselves. I've stated before they could of done things alot better; but as per your trollfull self - you only decide to post about aspects that reinforce your really bad logic.
Source please.You were put on ignore due to your inability to allow people who don't agree with you the freedom to believe what they like. Like I've said many, many times the game is in trouble i've not said anywhere that its lies, or made up. But I'd also like you to trowl around the history of other IP's + games companies and check they're historical legal statistics.Again, source please.@Agricola - supporting SGW and the individual(s) != supporting the GUL's. Yes we all know that side still plays a part; but at this point I really don't care. I support the game, the dev's and anyone making the best out of a bad situation. You don't like it? tough. It's really got nothing to do with you.
And as I expect, if some of you minority couldn't be bothered reading, the summary :
I WILL keep posting about my support for the project, the game, the community and the developers.
I have ALWAYS stated what I believe and what is actual fact, as its either quoted/my own thoughts/sourced (or linked)
The wiki isn't just mine, like or not. Everything there (as much as possible) is referenced. Its a wiki, not a legal factual site on multiple companies - its about the GAME.
If any of you had actually read the official site/forum also, you'd know I've always posted on the then & now. Not always agreed with whats been said, but at least I didn't come here and start slating people every chance possible.
I don't see why I also have to defend my actions to random strangers, whose sole purpose it seems is to cause trouble at every turn, when something is written which they do not agree with. If it was done in an adult manner, without the use of personal vendetta's (case & point slander towards CME, individual developers and the like) then I'd have no problem debating; heck debates are what makes forums fun. But when its taken out of context and aimed at certain peple > it becomes flamebait.
Now if the mods are actually paying attention I'd suggest they start watching this little area alot more closely.
# SW:TOR : Tylantia, Sivis, Aeonis, Aehris, Xaehrin, Vhyce, Tehren, Suvis
# Ryzom : Kasumi / Secor / Anuihlm
# City of Heroes/Villains : @Tylantia
# Age of Empires Online : Tylantia (Abydos server)
# Stargate Worlds : Kadael
# WoW : Tylantia, Siinaar, Sivis, Moofangles, Aehr, Cehr, Chaizen, Ocep, Tzias
Well good luck supporting CME and SGW because you're gonna need it. The company is mired in debt chained to multiple lawsuits and crippled by the fact all of the original developers and all the talent left along time ago. Also they've stated themselves on their official forums that SGW is "on hold" whilst they work on releasing an interim title (SGB).
The only thing bringing in money is the pyramid scheme that uses the Stargate name to scam desperate and poor saps out of their money and even that is being sued also. Investors and ex employees are sueing CME/Gary Whiting/Garvick and all of his shell corps he uses to scam people. The landlords and the company that provided the servers for last years brief beta are sueing Team Whiting and his plethora of corporations.
Good luck on seeing that game my friend because I doubt that even the Asgard, Tokra and all the SG teams could find away out of the hole Whiting has dug for himself, CME and SGW. I also doubt MGM will help as they are barely staying solvent right now and even Brad Wright and Micheal Shanks wrote off SGW along time ago. The only people that believe it will get released are the handfull of nutters on the official forums that still believe Khestral and his buddies!
FACT!
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
Source please.I would LOVE to give you a source on this!
In your "current" information thread, you were asked why you falied to inculde all the ACTUAL current information about the lawsuits, money problems, employees being unpaid and lack of any news from the dev team. In reply you said THIS (source link):
Kadael: "I have no intention of trapsing through all the old rubbish a fair chunk of you lot on here seem to love doing."
There you have it: We aksed you why you wouldn't acknowledge the lawsuits and you anwsered by blowing it off as "old rubbish" because in your mind anything that doesn't look good for the game isn't worth talking about. That same post was also where you have us your "evidence" that the game is still being woked on just because there is a website:
Kadael: "And until I cannot access the website and forums anymore, the game(s) are still being worked on to my knowledge; and thats what I believe."
Proof positive that everything I've said about your attitude has been true. You refuse to discuss any issue which won't result in HYPE for the game. Instead you choose to beleive, aginst all the facts, that the game is still going to come out simply because thats what you WANT to believe, not becuse it makes any actual sense.
I know you will never admit it and will use every bone the developers throw to you as an excuse to continue your foolish quest, but all the evidence proves that this game cannot be released under the current conditions. They just don't have the money or resources to make it happen and the lawsuits are going to wipe them out completely soon. The only chance this game has is for CME to be shut down and for another developer to take over the project, hopefully starting from scratch. If you really want to see this game released and want to support it, then by all logic you should hate Gary and MMOGULs even more than any of the rest of us.
The History of the Order of The Golden Shields
Please explain how the != works in your mind. Since CME & MMOGULS are the same thing, designed by the same person with a singular purpose in mind, how do you separate the two so easily? When people are getting sucked into a scam, how do you so nonchalantly say it's okay to support the fictional game at the center of that scam?
I completely understand a burning desire to see a game based on a franchise you love. I get it. What I cannot understand is ignoring morality in order to get it. Fans of CME often come to this forum to tell us that we should not get so worked up over a game, but that isn't the issue I have here. To hell with the game. Why is it okay to scam, cheat, and lie? Why are you willing to indirectly support that? Why would you subscribe to any game that will help Gary Whiting make money?
Geeked for FFXIV
Freelance FFXIV guide author for Ten Ton Hammer.com
Quoted for truth and an excellent set of questions.
The History of the Order of The Golden Shields
I keep asking those same questions of the CME fans and employees who come here. I never get a straight answer. While one fan may come here and pretend to understand the truth, he'll then turn around and go badmouth us over on the official forums. The rest of the fans just say, Nuh uh, hater!" And the employees say stupid shit like, "I chose to participate in the scam because this was my one chance to make a video game." In fact, my indictment of that stupid statement (and Agricola's) is what made Shane so annoyed that he finally posted here to begin with.
So, I welcome a logical discuss of the moral issues associated with this game if anyone cares to participate.
Geeked for FFXIV
Freelance FFXIV guide author for Ten Ton Hammer.com
NICE.
Kadael asked me to show him a source on his "old rubbish" comment and I gave him a link directly to it.
Apparently that was when this place became "beyond comprehension" for him, thus giving him an excuse not to reply.
Real classy.
The History of the Order of The Golden Shields