I think a more interesting topic would be the examination of targeting an MMO to the broad general gamer audiance and less focus on that MMO's IP fans. As the economy has taken a hit on everyone, the casual gamer who would jump in and try WOW with thier friends is starting to question the spending of that money. Slowly those casual players who might try a MMO are starting to dry up. I believe Blizzard is probably not touting those full 11 Million subs today. Hardcore MMO fans may commit to a single game that captures thier interest but are finding it harder and harder to stay with it as the times dictate. I have also read of potential players turning thier collective noses up on new MMO offerings because those same MMO's offer nothing dramaticly different from thier last experiances. So, less finacial support coupled with market stagnation is not a good thing for MMO's as a whole. Niche focus on an IP fan base is viewed as myopic but there should be a solid foundation that can be depended for that "cash cow" to keep producing.
Am I trolling? Sure, but I thought this was a pretty interesting view.
This is going to be an interesting game if they pull it off as there are a lot of potential pitfalls in what they have so far announced with some of their design ideas. I have always enjoyed the stories and the ideas in the varios versions of Star Trek that have come out but I've never really been a Trekkie or wanted to be. What I wanted was to be entertained and generally while there have been some groaners at times they have succeeded.
It is probably too late to make any major development changes to the product and actually have it released on time but the idea of captains and crews seems to be the one that will be the hardest to execute properly and if it doesn't work can pull the whole game down. Personally with the proliferation of people creating alternate characters they might consider that the crew in a ship are alts and not just a bunch of nameless gormless bots that follow you about. If you needed to create the various members of your bridge crew and train them and work with them and then build it up as a team entity that might have some interesting aspects to it. It could be like having a main character with 5 or 6 different specs that you could choose from as you go out on missions.
Dunno, the outlook isn't good for them and if they don't have a solid comittment behind them by their company getting the product to market on time and in a usable fashion is going to be very difficutl.
Well Jon that sounds pretty much like I feel. Lets not just make the game about the mechanics of the game. Lets include the FEEL of Startrek. I realize thats a tough thing to do, but if they at least try it will be a step forward.
I'm old not dead. (Nov8tr is pronounced innovator)
It sounds like this writer is not fond of the concept of players writing their own backstories. Just as sure as you can make your own race, you can make up your own backstory to go along with it. The funny part about that is that you don't even 'need' anything in game to do that, you just do it yourself. Now, they could add in a little backstory space like with what Champions Online and CoX do with their character biography, but they don't have to. The NPC Bridge officers that you create? Make up their backstories. There's a chance that the NPC bridge officers that you can pick up along the way may have their own backstories already, but if they don't? Make it up yourself. As for Alternate Realities and Time Travel, it was good in TOS when those concepts were relatively fresh and new in the 1960s, but TNG and beyond seem to have beaten the concept to death. Now it's just cliched, overused, and cheap.
Sure. And while I'm at it, I'll make up that I won the game and am the best ever, and just not bother playing.
Story, in a game, is of limited value if it is not reflected in gameplay or dialogue, at least a little. Making up fantasy stories in your head is pointless in this context.
There is a vast gulf of difference, thank god, between active roleplaying and fan fiction.
"That's one of the things that makes me a little bit nervous about the character creation system, as dynamic as it is from an MMORPG standpoint, that allows players to make up their own races and looks for their characters." This makes me somewhat nervous aswell, I mean like you say from a MMORPG standpoint and if this was some unknown new IP it would be awesome to be able to creat new races and have it blueprinted so that others can become that same race. But then again they also said they are NOT making a game for Star Trek fans, but more making a game for MMORPG fans. So far it shows..... For anyone intrested in what kind of races there are in the Star Trek Universe here is a list of them. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Star_Trek_races
Agreed completely. When I heard of the race creation system, I thought it was cool, but I'm afraid that all the traditional races are going to get sidelined by people creating "kewl" races for every character they roll.
Races and their history, culture and lore are a huge part of Star Trek, and it will be a horrible shame if this aspect is sidelined for an extensive character creation process where people can ignore the established races in favour of their own simply because Cryptic has the technology to make it so and they want another bullet point for the box.
"If you want to populate my ship with NPCs, Cryptic, that's your call. But as a Trek fan, I'm putting the onus on you to make them an interesting and engaging part of my game experience." I didnt know cryptic was making a game just for your taste. As a ST fan myself I love the direction there going. *shrugs*
I think the author gave clear and concise evidence from Star Trek as to why the NPC bridge characters should be well fleshed out. YOU, on the other hand, are basing your opinion on nothing more than your personal opinion and preferences. Do you really believe TNG was the "Jean Luc Picard Hour?" Or DS9 was "The Adventures of Ben Sisko?"
Each Star Trek show has 5 to 7 main characters the show revolves around, sometimes more, and (in the case of TOS) sometimes less. However, there are always interesting and engaging characters apart from the captains. Griping about the author wanting his NPC bridge crew to have backstories and histories and personalities is pure insanity in my opinion.
This will be a run of the mill mmo with trek elements and objects, a skin. I'm sure you'll have some story arcs revolving around some of the more infamous events of the show but that will be it. If you're expecting an all singing, all dancing quest system with rich full objectives and story I think people are going to be thoroughly disappointed. Too much effort and money required. To the fans (myself included) this is one of the most important ip's that exists, to cryptic this is a revenue source. Nothing more, nothing less.
Unfortunately, as we discover more and more about the game, this seems to be the case. And it explains why getting information about the game has been like pulling teeth.
Its shaping up to be the same, bland, mindless, "one shoe fits all" trash the industry has been throwing at us for years now.
I've concluded we are not going to get anything more than City of Heroes with different avatars and sidekicks (BOs).
I think a more interesting topic would be the examination of targeting an MMO to the broad general gamer audiance and less focus on that MMO's IP fans. As the economy has taken a hit on everyone, the casual gamer who would jump in and try WOW with thier friends is starting to question the spending of that money. Slowly those casual players who might try a MMO are starting to dry up. I believe Blizzard is probably not touting those full 11 Million subs today. Hardcore MMO fans may commit to a single game that captures thier interest but are finding it harder and harder to stay with it as the times dictate. I have also read of potential players turning thier collective noses up on new MMO offerings because those same MMO's offer nothing dramaticly different from thier last experiances. So, less finacial support coupled with market stagnation is not a good thing for MMO's as a whole. Niche focus on an IP fan base is viewed as myopic but there should be a solid foundation that can be depended for that "cash cow" to keep producing. Am I trolling? Sure, but I thought this was a pretty interesting view.
Not trolling at all. This very view has been my contention for years. A game company should NOT focus its efforts on attracting Nomad Gamers. They will leave you the at the earliest opportunity. It is very short sighted (but then what's new with American business these days?) A game company should develop product for a core audience, the question is what core audience. That will be different for different games. EQ1 decided to focus on the core audience of Raiders, for example. For all its innovation at launch, SWG didn't focus on Star Wars fans, but focused on the generic "MMO Fan". To which Raph Koster famously admitted "All the usual suspects showed up." The fact that SWG hadn't tapped into the vast Star Wars fan base led directly to the NGE. SWG tried to go after the Star Wars fans AFTER they had already established a game -- and we see how successful that was. It needed to happen from the start.
Now Cryptic has been coy about their relations with Star Trek fans -- at points wooing them, and at other points openly mocking them. But it can be said that they certainly are NOT designing STO to appeal to a core of Star Trek fans. They've readily admitted as much. They're going for that same group, that nebulous, nomadic group where "all the usual suspects" show up.
Of all the things game companies have learned and try to learn from WoW's success, they haven't gleaned one of the more important aspects. Namely: design a game for your core fans. Blizzard did that (and more), and it paid off in spades.
_____________________________ Currently Playing: LOTRO; DDO Played: AC2, AO, Auto Assault, CoX, DAoC, DDO, Earth&Beyond, EQ1, EQ2, EVE, Fallen Earth, Jumpgate, Roma Victor, Second Life, SWG, V:SoH, WoW, World War II Online.
Games I'm watching: Infinity: The Quest for Earth, Force of Arms.
Originally posted by Cerion Now Cryptic has been coy about their relations with Star Trek fans -- at points wooing them, and at other points openly mocking them. But it can be said that they certainly are NOT designing STO to appeal to a core of Star Trek fans. They've readily admitted as much. They're going for that same group, that nebulous, nomadic group where "all the usual suspects" show up.
Now, my question to you is: why are they doing that? Are they misguided in thinking they can hold a large section of the nomads, or it is their business plan to release big (box sales, CE, and extended subscriptions) and let the game wither away?
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
I think a more interesting topic would be the examination of targeting an MMO to the broad general gamer audiance and less focus on that MMO's IP fans. As the economy has taken a hit on everyone, the casual gamer who would jump in and try WOW with thier friends is starting to question the spending of that money. Slowly those casual players who might try a MMO are starting to dry up. I believe Blizzard is probably not touting those full 11 Million subs today. Hardcore MMO fans may commit to a single game that captures thier interest but are finding it harder and harder to stay with it as the times dictate. I have also read of potential players turning thier collective noses up on new MMO offerings because those same MMO's offer nothing dramaticly different from thier last experiances. So, less finacial support coupled with market stagnation is not a good thing for MMO's as a whole. Niche focus on an IP fan base is viewed as myopic but there should be a solid foundation that can be depended for that "cash cow" to keep producing. Am I trolling? Sure, but I thought this was a pretty interesting view.
Not trolling at all. This very view has been my contention for years. A game company should NOT focus its efforts on attracting Nomad Gamers. They will leave you the at the earliest opportunity. It is very short sighted (but then what's new with American business these days?) A game company should develop product for a core audience, the question is what core audience. That will be different for different games. EQ1 decided to focus on the core audience of Raiders, for example. For all its innovation at launch, SWG didn't focus on Star Wars fans, but focused on the generic "MMO Fan". To which Raph Koster famously admitted "All the usual suspects showed up." The fact that SWG hadn't tapped into the vast Star Wars fan base led directly to the NGE. SWG tried to go after the Star Wars fans AFTER they had already established a game -- and we see how successful that was. It needed to happen from the start.
Now Cryptic has been coy about their relations with Star Trek fans -- at points wooing them, and at other points openly mocking them. But it can be said that they certainly are NOT designing STO to appeal to a core of Star Trek fans. They've readily admitted as much. They're going for that same group, that nebulous, nomadic group where "all the usual suspects" show up.
Of all the things game companies have learned and try to learn from WoW's success, they haven't gleaned one of the more important aspects. Namely: design a game for your core fans. Blizzard did that (and more), and it paid off in spades.
Very well said. And I submit further that if Cryptic tried to appeal to the core Star Trek fan base and tried to make a game that Star Trek fans would find fun and would really enjoy then all the rest will follow.
As it stands they seem to scoff at making a game that appeals to Trek fans because "Trek fans don't like what 'normal' people like." That's pure BS and keeping that philosophy will hurt them. Hardcore Trek fans have held vast tournaments and played games like Bridge Commander and Starfleet Command to death because they could play against each other. There, we now have an entire PvP system in place. In one game (Starfleet Command I think) it was flexible enough that you could fight your friend's Borg cube in a shuttlecraft! Trek fans have always dreamed of having their own quarters on a starship. There, you've got player housing. Trek fans have always wanted to hang out at Ten Forward or Quark's with their friends. There, we have a social aspect to the game. Trek fans want to explore the galaxy, go on diplomatic missions, save the Earth, visit Vulcan, trade with Ferengi, beat up (or get beaten up) by Nausicans. These are not "boring" things that "normal" people wouldn't want to do.
I find it really sad that we get WoW with a Star Trek skin. This game could be something complex and fun, but instead the more I see of it the more shallow and uninteresting it looks. I think Cryptic should have listened to the Star Trek fan side of things instead of the desire for uber profits side of things.
I also firmly believe that if a game company ignores the profit side of the equation and focuses soley on the fun and interest factors of a game they will design a game that is fun and a game that people will want to play. The profits will naturally follow.
I am not a big fan of Star Trek, Its a great show but never had time. Just wonder if the other Star Trek games paid for licensing or rights if they used the actual characters, etc. We could not expect Cryptic to shell out that kind of dough but would expect it to be an insane game to play in order to keep the fans intersted.
I just want something other than bows and arrows to shoot. CO does a good job their, but the whole spaceship and star trek theme should be outrageous with the talent they have. Yes CO has its bugs but they all do early on. The ones that dont, check out the size of their company and dev team.
This post is intentionally written as to not make any sense what so ever. Thank You Very Much.
"But then again they also said they are NOT making a game for Star Trek fans, but more making a game for MMORPG fans."
I think both can be achieved. It just needs to be done in the right way. You need to look at both perspectives and see if things can "bridge" both sides. By all means, it obviously isn't going to be easy but isn't that the whole point of spending millions on a team that can figure this out the "right way". To be honest, I think the greatest problem is figuring out how solo players can fit within this universe.
For example, a groups of friends who all take different roles to crew a starship is fairly easy to achieve. In effect, you're creating a situation similar to questing in a group or raiding in WoW. Different skills and roles are required to achieve a group objective. Guilds are handled by creating crew "teams" of say six to eight people who each run a starship of their own and their player housing is their cabin on that ship (and maybe they even have their own guild starbase they can all meet at as well). Actually the more successful the guild, the better ships they may get access to fly (similar to Warhammer's guild XP increasing your guild's abilities and resources).
Again though, the team aspect is probably the easier part. What about all of the players who want to play solo though? Are they only allowed to fly smaller ships and thus don't get the opportunity to command a starship of their own like the Enterprise because that requires a team of people to run? That I think is the most difficult question to ask. Do we alienate solo players to give social players what they really want?
Be interesting to hear from people here how they would envision these problems being addressed.
There are a LOT of Trek fans out there, and given the nature of the shows and their fans, a lot of them would play a good MMORPG based on that IP. Do a good job with such a game, and you wouldn't need any casuals for the game to be a success.
I think players should have to be part of a crew to fly in the larger ships, just like you need to be in a group or raid to do the dungeons in a standard fantasy MMORPG. Solo players could be designated as available crew to any ships leaving starbase for a mission.
Having solo captains running capital ships won't work alongside player crews. If the NPC crew are inferior to players, then the soloers will complain, and vice versa.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
It will be interesting to follow how this game develops as I've read so much of the game is centered aroun PvP and not the other aspects os Star Trek we hope would be included in the game, such as exploration. I'm also not sure about trying to run a ship with pre-determined NPC's.
No judgement yet on how the game will turn out. Wait and see
I have to vote no confidence in this game. I was really excited when it was announced and that enthusiasm has gone down with almost every detail I hear.
Here's hoping I'm wrong.
"Who is General Failure and why is he reading my hard drive?" From the Classic Tag Lines collection.
Good article, and I agree with what several others said that the article hits the nail on the head except for the last two points. Alternate Universes and Time Travel are gimmicks that Star Trek used often, sometimes effectively and sometimes not. It's a story tool that Cryptic can use if they want to, but it's not at all necessary IMO.
I also agree that STO should be targeted toward Star Trek fans. The whole point of using an established IP is to attract those fans. If they just want to make an MMO that attracts any MMO gamers, they don't need to pay Paramount for the rights to develop a Star Trek game. They could just make up a new story and universe and be free to develop it in any direction that they want (see: EVE Online). And to be fair, while they have said that they want to make a great MMORPG game and not just a great Star Trek game, they've also said they want it to be a true Star Trek experience. So I believe they are trying to get it right on both sides of the coin, which of course is exactly what they have to do. To be truly successful, it will have to be a great Star Trek experience and a great MMORPG game experience.
On the topic of players creating their own races, I'm not sure how I feel about it. I did a bit of Star Trek fan fiction many years ago, and created new races in the stories. It was a lot of fun, and I also enjoyed reading what other writers came up with. So I expect that some players will take it seriously, and they'll write up some very cool races with history and background and culture that will be a joy to discover in the game. On the other hand, there will be players that create "TEH OMG AWSOMEFACE RACE!!!1!!1!" and unless Cryptic puts some oversight on race creation, there's going to be a lot of nonsense in the game.
Originally posted by Cerion Now Cryptic has been coy about their relations with Star Trek fans -- at points wooing them, and at other points openly mocking them. But it can be said that they certainly are NOT designing STO to appeal to a core of Star Trek fans. They've readily admitted as much. They're going for that same group, that nebulous, nomadic group where "all the usual suspects" show up.
Now, my question to you is: why are they doing that? Are they misguided in thinking they can hold a large section of the nomads, or it is their business plan to release big (box sales, CE, and extended subscriptions) and let the game wither away?
I don't know. I wish I knew. Perhaps they're highly cynical about the longevity of an MMO game's life cycle. I have an inkling, though it's only a gut feeling, that Paramount has its fingers in this deal (more than simply licensing) and is demanding an quick, early return on investment -- but hey, I don't want to sound like a conspiracy theorist, lol. Going for the nomad gamer would give you that quick return.
_____________________________ Currently Playing: LOTRO; DDO Played: AC2, AO, Auto Assault, CoX, DAoC, DDO, Earth&Beyond, EQ1, EQ2, EVE, Fallen Earth, Jumpgate, Roma Victor, Second Life, SWG, V:SoH, WoW, World War II Online.
Games I'm watching: Infinity: The Quest for Earth, Force of Arms.
The Star Trek MMO is the one we have all been waiting for. The devs have mentioned procedurally generated content yet they mention nothing about player generated content, combining these two things is definitely the wave of the MMO future. I would like to craft holodeck adventures personally and would probably pay for the privilege but oh well.
I doubt the Prime Directive is going to play much of a role in this game, even though it should always be in your mind as you explore strange new worlds, unless you aren't in the Federation.
I don't really care for space combat in a Star Trek game, so this one is already down a few notches in my book, I'll give it a shot though as we all will. There is MMO precedent for allowing mutiple PC's on the same ship, check out Pirates of the Caribbean Online from Disney lol!
Perhaps champions was just a quick revenue generator for Cryptic so they could fund what they believe to be the real money maker? I just hope the game is good.
The Star Trek MMO is the one we have all been waiting for. The devs have mentioned procedurally generated content yet they mention nothing about player generated content, combining these two things is definitely the wave of the MMO future. I would like to craft holodeck adventures personally and would probably pay for the privilege but oh well.
I doubt the Prime Directive is going to play much of a role in this game, even though it should always be in your mind as you explore strange new worlds, unless you aren't in the Federation.
I don't really care for space combat in a Star Trek game, so this one is already down a few notches in my book, I'll give it a shot though as we all will. There is MMO precedent for allowing mutiple PC's on the same ship, check out Pirates of the Caribbean Online from Disney lol!
Perhaps champions was just a quick revenue generator for Cryptic so they could fund what they believe to be the real money maker? I just hope the game is good.
I have to vote no confidence in this game. I was really excited when it was announced and that enthusiasm has gone down with almost every detail I hear. Here's hoping I'm wrong.
Your not. It's worse then you've heard. With every detail STO looks worse and worse. On the other hand with every detail Star Wars - The Old Republic looks better and better.
The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity. - Harlan Ellison
There is MMO precedent for allowing mutiple PC's on the same ship, check out Pirates of the Caribbean Online from Disney lol!
Or Star Wars Galaxies from 2003...
SWG has the best multiplayer set in space. On the new gunships you can have a pilot, operations and 6 gunners. All working together. SWG even has an awesome voice over IP built in to the game. Hey wait. You mean SOE the company that can do no right did multi role ship combat right?!? 6 YEARS ago? and cryptic can't? FAIL. If you want a game that has actual people running the entire ship and not just pressing npc buttons. There really is only one MMO that supports this, and ironically it's Star Wars Galaxies. How's that for a kick in the pants? There are also other multiplayer ships in SWG for 2, 4, and 8 player ships. And there is still room in the ships to for repair in flight. (That sounds just like Star Trek :P).
The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity. - Harlan Ellison
There is MMO precedent for allowing mutiple PC's on the same ship, check out Pirates of the Caribbean Online from Disney lol!
Or Star Wars Galaxies from 2003...
SWG has the best multiplayer set in space. On the new gunships you can have a pilot, operations and 6 gunners. All working together. SWG even has an awesome voice over IP built in to the game. Hey wait. You mean SOE the company that can do no right did multi role ship combat right?!? 6 YEARS ago? and cryptic can't? FAIL. If you want a game that has actual people running the entire ship and not just pressing npc buttons. There really is only one MMO that supports this, and ironically it's Star Wars Galaxies. How's that for a kick in the pants? There are also other multiplayer ships in SWG for 2, 4, and 8 player ships. And there is still room in the ships to for repair in flight. (That sounds just like Star Trek :P).
A system like that just wouldn't work in Star Trek, because in Trek you aren't flying ships as diversion or fun extra but are instead in your particular ship most of the time. I'd wager for 95-00%+ of the players, having to log on to a ship, then being able to do almost nothing because the Captain, First Officer, Chief Medical Officer, and Security Chief aren't logged in wouldn't be any fun. Nor would it be fun to play on a ship where the captain was a jerk (or equally unfun if you couldn't rise up in the ranks because of your personality as viewed by a small set of other players). Frankly, there just isn't a good way to capture this in an MMO without having the rest of the crew as AI. If you want to play as a member of a crew and have other crew members also be players, then play a Pen and Paper RPG.
Btw, the SWG system wouldn't work in Star Wars if you were a member of the Imperial Military or the New Republic Military either. These things just can't be done adequately with multiple real people unless you start paying people to show up or you are willing to accept certain breaks from reality such as logging in and being on a different ship each time.
Originally posted by Cerion Now Cryptic has been coy about their relations with Star Trek fans -- at points wooing them, and at other points openly mocking them. But it can be said that they certainly are NOT designing STO to appeal to a core of Star Trek fans. They've readily admitted as much. They're going for that same group, that nebulous, nomadic group where "all the usual suspects" show up.
Now, my question to you is: why are they doing that? Are they misguided in thinking they can hold a large section of the nomads, or it is their business plan to release big (box sales, CE, and extended subscriptions) and let the game wither away?
I don't know. I wish I knew. Perhaps they're highly cynical about the longevity of an MMO game's life cycle. I have an inkling, though it's only a gut feeling, that Paramount has its fingers in this deal (more than simply licensing) and is demanding an quick, early return on investment -- but hey, I don't want to sound like a conspiracy theorist, lol. Going for the nomad gamer would give you that quick return.
I believe it's CBS that is involved with the licencing of STO. But, you have to remember that the Trek license has been out for an MMO for like 4 years already. Perpetual botched it up and went down, so Cryptic might be feeling a bit of pressure from the suits with dollar signs in their eyes.
Uni-Server; I do LOVE champions "Everyone plays on the same server" approach. However, for Star Trek I could really see there being two servers. One with no custom races. I'd pick that one, because I'd prefer more canon than someone making "Uncle Pedobear" race like they do in Champions Online.
NPC Depth; OP is totally right, I want to not only get some backstory to my NPCs, but I would like a little Baldurs Gate/Dragon Age where they argue or develop relationships in the background. Just some fluff would be nice. a dynamic system could be created not unlike Jagged Alliance treated Mercenaries (except on a more macro scale).
Let's say at first they create 50 NPC "Personalities" but let you name the Character (or pick the default random one) which get assigned based on whether its a male/female or whatever race it is. Then they create a matrix of relationships connecting each one to another.
"If Personality 31 and Personality 32 are together on the Bridge, randomly play voice conversation #432"
Players will only get 4-5 of these npcs, so it's possible you will get a totally different experience than I would, and if I start a new guy I would get a new crew as well. Then as the game continues to be developed, add new personalities to the mix.
Ferrengi; I don't care about playing Klingon or starfleet, Ferrengi sounds fun. Let us "Go Rogue" and save those nausicans and other bad guy races for a third faction!
Comments
I think a more interesting topic would be the examination of targeting an MMO to the broad general gamer audiance and less focus on that MMO's IP fans. As the economy has taken a hit on everyone, the casual gamer who would jump in and try WOW with thier friends is starting to question the spending of that money. Slowly those casual players who might try a MMO are starting to dry up. I believe Blizzard is probably not touting those full 11 Million subs today. Hardcore MMO fans may commit to a single game that captures thier interest but are finding it harder and harder to stay with it as the times dictate. I have also read of potential players turning thier collective noses up on new MMO offerings because those same MMO's offer nothing dramaticly different from thier last experiances. So, less finacial support coupled with market stagnation is not a good thing for MMO's as a whole. Niche focus on an IP fan base is viewed as myopic but there should be a solid foundation that can be depended for that "cash cow" to keep producing.
Am I trolling? Sure, but I thought this was a pretty interesting view.
This is going to be an interesting game if they pull it off as there are a lot of potential pitfalls in what they have so far announced with some of their design ideas. I have always enjoyed the stories and the ideas in the varios versions of Star Trek that have come out but I've never really been a Trekkie or wanted to be. What I wanted was to be entertained and generally while there have been some groaners at times they have succeeded.
It is probably too late to make any major development changes to the product and actually have it released on time but the idea of captains and crews seems to be the one that will be the hardest to execute properly and if it doesn't work can pull the whole game down. Personally with the proliferation of people creating alternate characters they might consider that the crew in a ship are alts and not just a bunch of nameless gormless bots that follow you about. If you needed to create the various members of your bridge crew and train them and work with them and then build it up as a team entity that might have some interesting aspects to it. It could be like having a main character with 5 or 6 different specs that you could choose from as you go out on missions.
Dunno, the outlook isn't good for them and if they don't have a solid comittment behind them by their company getting the product to market on time and in a usable fashion is going to be very difficutl.
Well Jon that sounds pretty much like I feel. Lets not just make the game about the mechanics of the game. Lets include the FEEL of Startrek. I realize thats a tough thing to do, but if they at least try it will be a step forward.
I'm old not dead. (Nov8tr is pronounced innovator)
Sure. And while I'm at it, I'll make up that I won the game and am the best ever, and just not bother playing.
Story, in a game, is of limited value if it is not reflected in gameplay or dialogue, at least a little. Making up fantasy stories in your head is pointless in this context.
There is a vast gulf of difference, thank god, between active roleplaying and fan fiction.
Agreed completely. When I heard of the race creation system, I thought it was cool, but I'm afraid that all the traditional races are going to get sidelined by people creating "kewl" races for every character they roll.
Races and their history, culture and lore are a huge part of Star Trek, and it will be a horrible shame if this aspect is sidelined for an extensive character creation process where people can ignore the established races in favour of their own simply because Cryptic has the technology to make it so and they want another bullet point for the box.
I think the author gave clear and concise evidence from Star Trek as to why the NPC bridge characters should be well fleshed out. YOU, on the other hand, are basing your opinion on nothing more than your personal opinion and preferences. Do you really believe TNG was the "Jean Luc Picard Hour?" Or DS9 was "The Adventures of Ben Sisko?"
Each Star Trek show has 5 to 7 main characters the show revolves around, sometimes more, and (in the case of TOS) sometimes less. However, there are always interesting and engaging characters apart from the captains. Griping about the author wanting his NPC bridge crew to have backstories and histories and personalities is pure insanity in my opinion.
Unfortunately, as we discover more and more about the game, this seems to be the case. And it explains why getting information about the game has been like pulling teeth.
Its shaping up to be the same, bland, mindless, "one shoe fits all" trash the industry has been throwing at us for years now.
I've concluded we are not going to get anything more than City of Heroes with different avatars and sidekicks (BOs).
Not trolling at all. This very view has been my contention for years. A game company should NOT focus its efforts on attracting Nomad Gamers. They will leave you the at the earliest opportunity. It is very short sighted (but then what's new with American business these days?) A game company should develop product for a core audience, the question is what core audience. That will be different for different games. EQ1 decided to focus on the core audience of Raiders, for example. For all its innovation at launch, SWG didn't focus on Star Wars fans, but focused on the generic "MMO Fan". To which Raph Koster famously admitted "All the usual suspects showed up." The fact that SWG hadn't tapped into the vast Star Wars fan base led directly to the NGE. SWG tried to go after the Star Wars fans AFTER they had already established a game -- and we see how successful that was. It needed to happen from the start.
Now Cryptic has been coy about their relations with Star Trek fans -- at points wooing them, and at other points openly mocking them. But it can be said that they certainly are NOT designing STO to appeal to a core of Star Trek fans. They've readily admitted as much. They're going for that same group, that nebulous, nomadic group where "all the usual suspects" show up.
Of all the things game companies have learned and try to learn from WoW's success, they haven't gleaned one of the more important aspects. Namely: design a game for your core fans. Blizzard did that (and more), and it paid off in spades.
_____________________________
Currently Playing: LOTRO; DDO
Played: AC2, AO, Auto Assault, CoX, DAoC, DDO, Earth&Beyond, EQ1, EQ2, EVE, Fallen Earth, Jumpgate, Roma Victor, Second Life, SWG, V:SoH, WoW, World War II Online.
Games I'm watching: Infinity: The Quest for Earth, Force of Arms.
Find the Truth: http://www.factcheck.org/
Now, my question to you is: why are they doing that? Are they misguided in thinking they can hold a large section of the nomads, or it is their business plan to release big (box sales, CE, and extended subscriptions) and let the game wither away?
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Not trolling at all. This very view has been my contention for years. A game company should NOT focus its efforts on attracting Nomad Gamers. They will leave you the at the earliest opportunity. It is very short sighted (but then what's new with American business these days?) A game company should develop product for a core audience, the question is what core audience. That will be different for different games. EQ1 decided to focus on the core audience of Raiders, for example. For all its innovation at launch, SWG didn't focus on Star Wars fans, but focused on the generic "MMO Fan". To which Raph Koster famously admitted "All the usual suspects showed up." The fact that SWG hadn't tapped into the vast Star Wars fan base led directly to the NGE. SWG tried to go after the Star Wars fans AFTER they had already established a game -- and we see how successful that was. It needed to happen from the start.
Now Cryptic has been coy about their relations with Star Trek fans -- at points wooing them, and at other points openly mocking them. But it can be said that they certainly are NOT designing STO to appeal to a core of Star Trek fans. They've readily admitted as much. They're going for that same group, that nebulous, nomadic group where "all the usual suspects" show up.
Of all the things game companies have learned and try to learn from WoW's success, they haven't gleaned one of the more important aspects. Namely: design a game for your core fans. Blizzard did that (and more), and it paid off in spades.
Very well said. And I submit further that if Cryptic tried to appeal to the core Star Trek fan base and tried to make a game that Star Trek fans would find fun and would really enjoy then all the rest will follow.
As it stands they seem to scoff at making a game that appeals to Trek fans because "Trek fans don't like what 'normal' people like." That's pure BS and keeping that philosophy will hurt them. Hardcore Trek fans have held vast tournaments and played games like Bridge Commander and Starfleet Command to death because they could play against each other. There, we now have an entire PvP system in place. In one game (Starfleet Command I think) it was flexible enough that you could fight your friend's Borg cube in a shuttlecraft! Trek fans have always dreamed of having their own quarters on a starship. There, you've got player housing. Trek fans have always wanted to hang out at Ten Forward or Quark's with their friends. There, we have a social aspect to the game. Trek fans want to explore the galaxy, go on diplomatic missions, save the Earth, visit Vulcan, trade with Ferengi, beat up (or get beaten up) by Nausicans. These are not "boring" things that "normal" people wouldn't want to do.
I find it really sad that we get WoW with a Star Trek skin. This game could be something complex and fun, but instead the more I see of it the more shallow and uninteresting it looks. I think Cryptic should have listened to the Star Trek fan side of things instead of the desire for uber profits side of things.
I also firmly believe that if a game company ignores the profit side of the equation and focuses soley on the fun and interest factors of a game they will design a game that is fun and a game that people will want to play. The profits will naturally follow.
I am not a big fan of Star Trek, Its a great show but never had time. Just wonder if the other Star Trek games paid for licensing or rights if they used the actual characters, etc. We could not expect Cryptic to shell out that kind of dough but would expect it to be an insane game to play in order to keep the fans intersted.
I just want something other than bows and arrows to shoot. CO does a good job their, but the whole spaceship and star trek theme should be outrageous with the talent they have. Yes CO has its bugs but they all do early on. The ones that dont, check out the size of their company and dev team.
This post is intentionally written as to not make any sense what so ever. Thank You Very Much.
"But then again they also said they are NOT making a game for Star Trek fans, but more making a game for MMORPG fans."
I think both can be achieved. It just needs to be done in the right way. You need to look at both perspectives and see if things can "bridge" both sides. By all means, it obviously isn't going to be easy but isn't that the whole point of spending millions on a team that can figure this out the "right way". To be honest, I think the greatest problem is figuring out how solo players can fit within this universe.
For example, a groups of friends who all take different roles to crew a starship is fairly easy to achieve. In effect, you're creating a situation similar to questing in a group or raiding in WoW. Different skills and roles are required to achieve a group objective. Guilds are handled by creating crew "teams" of say six to eight people who each run a starship of their own and their player housing is their cabin on that ship (and maybe they even have their own guild starbase they can all meet at as well). Actually the more successful the guild, the better ships they may get access to fly (similar to Warhammer's guild XP increasing your guild's abilities and resources).
Again though, the team aspect is probably the easier part. What about all of the players who want to play solo though? Are they only allowed to fly smaller ships and thus don't get the opportunity to command a starship of their own like the Enterprise because that requires a team of people to run? That I think is the most difficult question to ask. Do we alienate solo players to give social players what they really want?
Be interesting to hear from people here how they would envision these problems being addressed.
There are a LOT of Trek fans out there, and given the nature of the shows and their fans, a lot of them would play a good MMORPG based on that IP. Do a good job with such a game, and you wouldn't need any casuals for the game to be a success.
I think players should have to be part of a crew to fly in the larger ships, just like you need to be in a group or raid to do the dungeons in a standard fantasy MMORPG. Solo players could be designated as available crew to any ships leaving starbase for a mission.
Having solo captains running capital ships won't work alongside player crews. If the NPC crew are inferior to players, then the soloers will complain, and vice versa.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
It will be interesting to follow how this game develops as I've read so much of the game is centered aroun PvP and not the other aspects os Star Trek we hope would be included in the game, such as exploration. I'm also not sure about trying to run a ship with pre-determined NPC's.
No judgement yet on how the game will turn out. Wait and see
I have to vote no confidence in this game. I was really excited when it was announced and that enthusiasm has gone down with almost every detail I hear.
Here's hoping I'm wrong.
"Who is General Failure and why is he reading my hard drive?"
From the Classic Tag Lines collection.
Good article, and I agree with what several others said that the article hits the nail on the head except for the last two points. Alternate Universes and Time Travel are gimmicks that Star Trek used often, sometimes effectively and sometimes not. It's a story tool that Cryptic can use if they want to, but it's not at all necessary IMO.
I also agree that STO should be targeted toward Star Trek fans. The whole point of using an established IP is to attract those fans. If they just want to make an MMO that attracts any MMO gamers, they don't need to pay Paramount for the rights to develop a Star Trek game. They could just make up a new story and universe and be free to develop it in any direction that they want (see: EVE Online). And to be fair, while they have said that they want to make a great MMORPG game and not just a great Star Trek game, they've also said they want it to be a true Star Trek experience. So I believe they are trying to get it right on both sides of the coin, which of course is exactly what they have to do. To be truly successful, it will have to be a great Star Trek experience and a great MMORPG game experience.
On the topic of players creating their own races, I'm not sure how I feel about it. I did a bit of Star Trek fan fiction many years ago, and created new races in the stories. It was a lot of fun, and I also enjoyed reading what other writers came up with. So I expect that some players will take it seriously, and they'll write up some very cool races with history and background and culture that will be a joy to discover in the game. On the other hand, there will be players that create "TEH OMG AWSOMEFACE RACE!!!1!!1!" and unless Cryptic puts some oversight on race creation, there's going to be a lot of nonsense in the game.
Now, my question to you is: why are they doing that? Are they misguided in thinking they can hold a large section of the nomads, or it is their business plan to release big (box sales, CE, and extended subscriptions) and let the game wither away?
I don't know. I wish I knew. Perhaps they're highly cynical about the longevity of an MMO game's life cycle. I have an inkling, though it's only a gut feeling, that Paramount has its fingers in this deal (more than simply licensing) and is demanding an quick, early return on investment -- but hey, I don't want to sound like a conspiracy theorist, lol. Going for the nomad gamer would give you that quick return.
_____________________________
Currently Playing: LOTRO; DDO
Played: AC2, AO, Auto Assault, CoX, DAoC, DDO, Earth&Beyond, EQ1, EQ2, EVE, Fallen Earth, Jumpgate, Roma Victor, Second Life, SWG, V:SoH, WoW, World War II Online.
Games I'm watching: Infinity: The Quest for Earth, Force of Arms.
Find the Truth: http://www.factcheck.org/
The Star Trek MMO is the one we have all been waiting for. The devs have mentioned procedurally generated content yet they mention nothing about player generated content, combining these two things is definitely the wave of the MMO future. I would like to craft holodeck adventures personally and would probably pay for the privilege but oh well.
I doubt the Prime Directive is going to play much of a role in this game, even though it should always be in your mind as you explore strange new worlds, unless you aren't in the Federation.
I don't really care for space combat in a Star Trek game, so this one is already down a few notches in my book, I'll give it a shot though as we all will. There is MMO precedent for allowing mutiple PC's on the same ship, check out Pirates of the Caribbean Online from Disney lol!
Perhaps champions was just a quick revenue generator for Cryptic so they could fund what they believe to be the real money maker? I just hope the game is good.
Are you completely sure you want to?
Edit: didn't grab everything for the change.
Or Star Wars Galaxies from 2003...
Elannar
Your not. It's worse then you've heard. With every detail STO looks worse and worse. On the other hand with every detail Star Wars - The Old Republic looks better and better.
The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity. - Harlan Ellison
Or Star Wars Galaxies from 2003...
SWG has the best multiplayer set in space. On the new gunships you can have a pilot, operations and 6 gunners. All working together. SWG even has an awesome voice over IP built in to the game. Hey wait. You mean SOE the company that can do no right did multi role ship combat right?!? 6 YEARS ago? and cryptic can't? FAIL. If you want a game that has actual people running the entire ship and not just pressing npc buttons. There really is only one MMO that supports this, and ironically it's Star Wars Galaxies. How's that for a kick in the pants? There are also other multiplayer ships in SWG for 2, 4, and 8 player ships. And there is still room in the ships to for repair in flight. (That sounds just like Star Trek :P).
The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity. - Harlan Ellison
Or Star Wars Galaxies from 2003...
SWG has the best multiplayer set in space. On the new gunships you can have a pilot, operations and 6 gunners. All working together. SWG even has an awesome voice over IP built in to the game. Hey wait. You mean SOE the company that can do no right did multi role ship combat right?!? 6 YEARS ago? and cryptic can't? FAIL. If you want a game that has actual people running the entire ship and not just pressing npc buttons. There really is only one MMO that supports this, and ironically it's Star Wars Galaxies. How's that for a kick in the pants? There are also other multiplayer ships in SWG for 2, 4, and 8 player ships. And there is still room in the ships to for repair in flight. (That sounds just like Star Trek :P).
A system like that just wouldn't work in Star Trek, because in Trek you aren't flying ships as diversion or fun extra but are instead in your particular ship most of the time. I'd wager for 95-00%+ of the players, having to log on to a ship, then being able to do almost nothing because the Captain, First Officer, Chief Medical Officer, and Security Chief aren't logged in wouldn't be any fun. Nor would it be fun to play on a ship where the captain was a jerk (or equally unfun if you couldn't rise up in the ranks because of your personality as viewed by a small set of other players). Frankly, there just isn't a good way to capture this in an MMO without having the rest of the crew as AI. If you want to play as a member of a crew and have other crew members also be players, then play a Pen and Paper RPG.
Btw, the SWG system wouldn't work in Star Wars if you were a member of the Imperial Military or the New Republic Military either. These things just can't be done adequately with multiple real people unless you start paying people to show up or you are willing to accept certain breaks from reality such as logging in and being on a different ship each time.
Now, my question to you is: why are they doing that? Are they misguided in thinking they can hold a large section of the nomads, or it is their business plan to release big (box sales, CE, and extended subscriptions) and let the game wither away?
I don't know. I wish I knew. Perhaps they're highly cynical about the longevity of an MMO game's life cycle. I have an inkling, though it's only a gut feeling, that Paramount has its fingers in this deal (more than simply licensing) and is demanding an quick, early return on investment -- but hey, I don't want to sound like a conspiracy theorist, lol. Going for the nomad gamer would give you that quick return.
I believe it's CBS that is involved with the licencing of STO. But, you have to remember that the Trek license has been out for an MMO for like 4 years already. Perpetual botched it up and went down, so Cryptic might be feeling a bit of pressure from the suits with dollar signs in their eyes.
I agree with the article.
Here are my thoughts;
Uni-Server; I do LOVE champions "Everyone plays on the same server" approach. However, for Star Trek I could really see there being two servers. One with no custom races. I'd pick that one, because I'd prefer more canon than someone making "Uncle Pedobear" race like they do in Champions Online.
NPC Depth; OP is totally right, I want to not only get some backstory to my NPCs, but I would like a little Baldurs Gate/Dragon Age where they argue or develop relationships in the background. Just some fluff would be nice. a dynamic system could be created not unlike Jagged Alliance treated Mercenaries (except on a more macro scale).
Let's say at first they create 50 NPC "Personalities" but let you name the Character (or pick the default random one) which get assigned based on whether its a male/female or whatever race it is. Then they create a matrix of relationships connecting each one to another.
"If Personality 31 and Personality 32 are together on the Bridge, randomly play voice conversation #432"
Players will only get 4-5 of these npcs, so it's possible you will get a totally different experience than I would, and if I start a new guy I would get a new crew as well. Then as the game continues to be developed, add new personalities to the mix.
Ferrengi; I don't care about playing Klingon or starfleet, Ferrengi sounds fun. Let us "Go Rogue" and save those nausicans and other bad guy races for a third faction!