Yes, I also have no issue with a free-to-play MMO charging money for in-game items to procure revenue or profit. I have an issue with MMO's charging monthly subscriptions and THEN charging far above that, in bits and pieces for additional items that whether cosmetic or actual stats make you better than everyone else. That feels like a trend companies are attempting to guide us (like sheep), to enhance their bottom line. Someone said they wouldn't pay $200 dollars for an in game sword... but they nickel and dime you to the point that you have spent that. Wow... 11 million x 14 bucks = 154 million a month? But they need an additional 10 bucks for a Kelthuzud cat pet? We have the ability to choose what our mmo's are going to feel like 5 and 10 years from now.
Companies guilding you, so you fall for it? Or you mean you are blaming companies for purchase decisions because they exist? Once again, I ask, do you buy everything in a supermarket just because they are available?
You want flat fees for everything. Some other gamers prefer basic fees for basic common services, and ad hoc charges for extras. Still some others don't care as long as the game is fun and the fees (however it is charged) are appropriate. That is it. Why all the fuss?
Don't start telling me things will slide to hell tomorrow. You do not read tomorrow. Nor do I.
You do not need an analogy to explain it, people have been trained to be consumers, not smart ones at that. Eventually greed will ruin most of the MMO scene and it will "reset" when someone pushes something out that has a reasonable business model. Then greed will creep back in and see how far we'll go.
You are just indirectly telling us you are the smart consumer, anyone else not following your footsteps are not smart.
Oh great one, pls publish a book telling us how to be smart. But print it free, or we will see you as driven by greed. Mail one to me free please, on the double. Not paying of course, as I am trained by you to be smart. I need not pay but I want everything.
I agree. The core of your statement is absolutely correct. I also pay for thing I value, and have done so in MMOs. The issue comes from the nature of the consumer and the nature of the service provider, and hence the difference in the type of service being offered must be considered when one offers a premium model based service. In the medical example above it is clearly exploitation of the patients to charge for premium services. Why? Because it is in the patients nature to want to live. The doctor is therefore taking advantage of the patient for personal profit, moving other patients back one notch for each premium subscriber. Not only is this unethical from a personal standpoint, but it clearly is in violation of the Doctors Hippocratic Oath to treat all patients in need. The doctor has added a caveat to those seeking his treatment. With regard to MMO gaming it is in the players nature to be greater than they are in reality. Nobody plays MMOs to be an average Joe. We play to do things we cant otherwise do. At its core it is basically driven by a need to stand out in some way from the crowd. So that is why you play games? b/c you cannot shine in RL so you want to shine in a game? And that automatically becomes the reason why everyone play games? We are all born as your twin sibbling? How that desire is expressed is as individual as the players themselves. A subscription based model gives all players the same tools to make this happen so the player with more time on hand can do better and that is high ground moral, god's blessing?, and lets the players have at it in a relatively non predatory fashion. Sure there is profit generated, but it is not generated rapaciously. Paying for extra items ingame... this is indeed rapacious. Many people who play MMOs play because they are hopelessly average you are hopeless average, try not to expand that beyond yourself, you do not know me or any of the other millions gamers, or even below average in reality. Massive amounts of extra charges can and do cause these types of individuals severe problems. I personally have known one gamer who committed suicide after driving himself into a financial crisis on the game Ashoron's Call that one example becomes a norm or an inevitable reality for every gamer?. This game was a subscription game where Ebay was used by players seeking to go above and beyond what their own gaming provided them. As recently as a month ago a gaming friend lost his house due to being unable to pay his mortgage for months. Why? He had spent THOUSANDS on the game Jade Dynasty, which has only been out since June! And hes not the only one who has seen a large bill come from this game the AVERAGE Jade Dynasty player spends well over $50 a month on gaming fees. Oh I think congress should pass laws because 1 person did this or that. We should invade Russia because 1 Russian student is writing a thesis on how to invade USA. There comes a point where we as gamers and as individuals need to take a look at what the standards and practices are of the corporations producing our modes of entertainment. Rapacious companies should be avoided. Advantageous tactics should be curtailed. Who is the one to decide for us all? You? Can I decide on it for myself?
Hmm you based your campaign on a couple cases, cases you tell us, but we never know if that is the truth. You surely have a very solid ground to put up your case.
You do not need an analogy to explain it, people have been trained to be consumers, not smart ones at that. Eventually greed will ruin most of the MMO scene and it will "reset" when someone pushes something out that has a reasonable business model. Then greed will creep back in and see how far we'll go.
I agree, it will continue the trend because people will continue to buy whatever they want because it's their God given right and who cares what it does to gaming!!
I didn't say you HAVE to pay additional money above the subscription NOW, but that's where the trend is heading and by showing game companies that we're more than willing to pay pay pay... that is where we will end up.
My point is NOT that you pay for a good service rendered and that everyone is entitled to blah blah a Mercedes over a Yugo.
My point is that what you are getting NOW for free...ALL WRONG or for your monthly subscription fee.... you will soon be paying for as part of the trend. If you are paying for additional items or goodies now... you will HAVE TO PAY for them tomorrow, and you WILL NOT have a choice.
There is no free lunch, Milton Friedmon tells us decades ago. You are paying for it somehow, or else the supplier goes bankrupt and you no longer enjoys the service. What is free as you suggest is a flat price covering everything. Its like a package deal. It might be cheaper than pricing each and adding up, but it comes with less flexibility on what you can choose to buy or not buy. Its like bundling all cars with leather seats and furs and fancy carpets.
Some people like a full package, some people like to pick and buy. Its all personal preference, and there is no right or wrong there. Someone likes buffets, someone else likes a la carte.
Why do you care about what others do with their money, in games where what they buy has no impact on you playing the game.
Its a rhetorical question, that I know the answer to. but I would like to hear you're answer.
Who says it has no impact?Since the majority of games out right now have PVP,your darn ight it plays an impact.Of coursae if it has no impact at all on other players,then it's a no brainer,let them waste their money.I think it is also a no brainer to realize they are not going to spend money unlesss it DOES have an impact. It has impact on the guy paying it, of course, that is why he buys it. So what? You are jealous or what? Why can't you live with the fact that people can and will buy things you cannot afford or do not wish to pay for?
I did a LOT of reading on a game that walked through a few nations, Russia/China included called ZT online.What i found was that the game does not care about fair,it does not care about players at all,they care about creating a system that fuels players to out buy,out spend each other.This works because that is exactly what the rich will do,they are lazy and can afford it,so it does not bother them to waste money. Ok there is a game out there, so what? We need to declare war or what? You do not need to play that game, once again, live with the fact that people can and may purchase things you do not feel willing or able to pay for. That is life. The owner of chelsea is going to buy a submarine. Do you need to talk about that too?
There is actually quite a few rich people out there willing to spend money if it can buy them the top ladder.This is shown by the fact that ZT online through Russia/China and other nations has over 2 million concurrent users at one time,i highly doubt WOW has those kind of numbers and WOW does not have the payscale that ZT has.WOW has a ton of multi boxers,goto you tube or Justin TV,i have seen over 2000 people in the justin tv WOW room,so you know mujltiboxing is VERY popular in WOW.That means there is far less than 16 million total accounts,remove also the massive amount of RMT farmers in WOW and you have maybe 5-6 million. Oh suddenly you can arrive at such accurate statistics based on the number of people posing on that web (all of them must be WoW players? all of them must be multi boxers? You know them? in person?)
SO out of WOW's say 6 million how many concurrent users?I believe games use the 20% ratio any proof? or just your belief?),that is how they determine server sizes what has multibox ratio to do with blizzard setting server size? ,so that means WOW has around 1.2 million concurrent users,and that is about right since ZT online actually had more than WOW 3 years ago and that is if you include all the multi boxers and RMT farmers.
What does all this mean?It means there is a much bigger market for paying more than what games are worth and not just in certain areas .all over the world.When EQ2 did their intial tests on who was spending the most money it was the USA that had the top 3 states for spending on RMT.California was number 1. So there is a market, and firms need to refrain from farming that market? That is your idea of capitalism?
So just like you have idiots like the Yankees spending ridiculous amounts of money to try and BUY a winner,it does ruiin it for others and it does ruin it for others in gaming.Even if you choose to not support these games,there is a ton of rich people waiting in line to support them,so we may not win the war on common sense gaming. I agree somewhat, but the point is, why do I care what the neighborhood Joe is buying. Do I have enough issues more relevant to myself to worry about than dialing up and long distance and calling all Russians and Chinese to not play this game or that?
One thing I keep wondering, why do you care so much about what others are doing, when it appears they are playing games you do not currently play now.
Stop preaching about how this would ruin the gaming industry. Its just games, not going to fuel a world war 3.
... I don't subscribe to many asian games but I've heard that this type of gaming is the norm in Asia. ...
I believe most MMOs in Asia use a Pay As You Go type of subscription model. This is akin to buying a cell phone with hours on it, and buying more hours when you run out of time.
this.
Quite a few Asians don't end up paying as much as we would for a month (usually the non hardcore ones) and so they tend to purchase store stuff to either catch up or because they have some money to spare. It's also a community thing. If 60% of people use the shop (and it has a direct impact on the gameplay) then it creates an atmosphere where the shop is not only encouraged but is expected to be used.
This is exactly what I'd love to see avoided.
This is how i see the gaming companies preying on gamers... and taking complete advantage of their customer.
You want to change other's habit and behaviour because of your personal bible about how people should play their games? Hmm, .... is this a church?
How about start with drug addiction, that I feel is a more pressing issue that gaming.
When the owners of the infastructure used to deliver those extra pixels want their peice of that extra income, we better not hear a peep from those game makers/publishers.
See you in the dream.. The Fires from heaven, now as cold as ice. A rapid ascension tolls a heavy price.
I'm sure that every person on this forum has purchased and will purchase something that is considered ridiculous or unnecessary to someone. Yet you buy these things because you have worked and you find them of value.
I purchased Fury.
=(
I just wanted to support Australian developers...
I am playing EVE and it's alright... level V skills are a bit much.
I'm sure that every person on this forum has purchased and will purchase something that is considered ridiculous or unnecessary to someone. Yet you buy these things because you have worked and you find them of value.
I purchased Fury.
=(
I just wanted to support Australian developers...
I purchased it to. It had potential. I beta tested it, knew it was not ready, but it was pretty addicting so I bought it out of hope.
As always, Sovrath is logical. As usual, an OP telling others what to do is pathetic.
As soon as someone ELSE is paying my gaming bills....they can tell me what to do. Until then, they can piss off and do what THEY want to do with the money THEY earn. The self-righteousness of some people is truly amazing. They can spend their own hard earned cash on whatever they want, but they somehow feel entitled to try to convince others that their choices are not legitimate.
FFS I wish people would just f**king learn the VALUE of the motto "Live and Let Live." Mind your OWN business, OP, and everyone else will tend to THEIR own business and their own choices. It's really a pretty simple principle.......
If I want to spend 10 dollars on something that is enjoyable to ME....guess what? I will. Conversely, if you want to spend your 10 dollars on something entirely different, and you enjoy it....I could NOT care less. Feel free. It's YOUR money. I have no vested interest in how you choose to spend your money or your free time or anything else. It doesn't even remotely matter. And you know what....it shouldn't. I pay my own bills. And just the SECOND someone else decides to pay all of that FOR me.....they're more than welcome to determine what gets spent on what. Until then....I think I'll just continue to live my own life, make my own decisions, suffer my own consequences (when there are any), and take responsibility for my self and my own actions, and....it's probably advisable other adults do the same, even though I know that's sort of a novel concept around MMORPG.com. People here seem, overall, very good at jumping on bandwagons of "the popular outrage of the hour." Right now, it's RMT.
Controversy and lemmings seem to be great bed fellows..... *sigh* Live and Let Live. Make your own decisions. Take responsibility for your own actions, failures, and successes. Allow others to do the same. Life 101.
Honestly I dont think anyone has a problem with discretionary spending, as long as that discretionary spending does not negatively impact others experience. That makes no sense. How can I know if I offended someone when I buy the icecream from this supermarket? Do I need to place an ad seeking global concensus? Heck if some jealous guy need to look prettier than everyone else, the game cannot possibly code any options for everyone else, lest this guy's experience is negatively affected. Who is to draw the line?
Unlike real life, MMO's have the capability to both level the playing field and allow those who do not have advantages others do in life to experience a different kind of reality. That is how you play a game, you need to do something in a game you failed to achieve in RL. Not me. So, that means I do not need to agree with you, nice.
At the risk of sounding like a bleeding heart (far from it... Im probably one of the most fiscally conservative individuals youll meet), mechanisms that encourage individuals in humanity who lack advantage to experience an existence, however trivial, where their own work matters is healthy, and it teaches people the value of personal achievement. Ok you admit you have strong unique preference. That about tells us what you suggest is most probably not well received by the majority. At the same time, personal achievement and game are virtually totally alien and disjoint sets to me. I won't imagine a personal achievement from a game.
MMO companies that exploit the free to play model by turning into a pay to win model (which is the crux of peoples concerns here-- and which does in fact happen regularly in games today -- see any game made by Perfect World Entertainment, Vestgame's World of Kungfu, and a whole host of other "free to play, but pay to win" games for examples) undermine what can be a positive social mechanism and turn it into a wholly cash hungry arena meant only to be played by corporate executives with too much time on their hands who like to beat up broke kids, and brag about it --- or on the flipside its turned into a game played by Vietnamese and Chinese individuals who are paid in game currency for their labor and encouraged to make life unpleasant for players as a means of driving up sales due to competitive pressure! This is absurd. Business practice of certain companies, if unpopular will change the successful models used by others? What kind of theory is that. Ok someone start drinking gasoline, one chinese lady actually drinks gasoline. This means it will spoil the drinks business, as coke will start selling bottles of gasoline coke instead of the classic. Oh, classic argument from you. On the other hand, if the new business model turns out to be popular, what do we call that? Innovative pricing?
And dont think thats not what happens in many Free to Play game models! Unfortunately its been rather well documented. Well documented = a lot of people trying to preach it = truth? One of the most documented idea is that the earth is flat.
So how about we get the debate back on track here, if there ever was one. If there was not, how about we give this debate some actual perspective?
The true concern here is not whether someone wants to tell you how to spend your money. Its how much money is reasonable the market will tell if it is reasonable, if it sells it is. that is capitalism to ask from an MMO developer to its consumers, and where is the line between fair market profit and rapacious 19th century tycoon brand capitalism? Is there a way to objectively draw a line? You draw the line for us all?
I really hate the cash shop idea for games with a monthly fee, but I know it will expand until it levels off against consumer demand. TCGs with exclusive in-game items have been around for a while now, and they are popular enough that companies keep making new sets. Same with all the other little percs that companies cleverly market to you so they don't have 'cash shop' written all over them.
Gaming is value entertainment as it stands right now. Your average casual Joe gamer has fairly deep pockets, enough so that there was a rapid expansion of the RMT as more players entered the genre, and don't pretend that these big corporate behind the games are that stupid.
this kind of stuff is a bait for the weak hearted such as the age of 13-22. strong hearted as us see through it and know what is right and what is wrong. we refuse to pay additional cause we care for our pride as a player, as a consumer.
this is especially in the free2play crap. pay to win in pvp. western monthly mmo is about to copy it.
to be honest i dont have a problem if its just for the decoration, fasion, ect.. that dont have any stats effect or any nagative effects in the game and as long as they dont pull up that smart-ass strategy on us like.... say normally you gain 70.00% exp per mob kill bu then they change it to 13.00% per mob to force players pay.
or like say your moving speed is slow as a turtle, and they made run fast only obtainable through paying real money.
I feel that purchasing extra 'perks' or in-game items is wrong and doesn't belong in a monthly subscription MMO.
The reasoning is really very simple, and it's that it completely ruins the spirit of the game for me. MMOs are supposed to be about progressing within the game through your own effort and skill. When people bypass this by paying for ingame advantages, whether it be from gold-farmers, or the developer themselves, it breaks the fourth wall. When this happens, the "virtual world" aspect of the MMO is diminished, and it starts to turn into whoever can piss away the most money on the game. Sure you could say to the contrary that it's otherwise about who can piss away the most time on the game, but hey, that's what many vetern MMO gamers are used to, and prefer.
To the people trying to defend it, claiming it has no adverse effect on the gameplay of myself or others, or how the companies are just trying to make money: Would you play a game of monopoly if the players could pay real cash to buy the properties and put hotels on the board? Would you play a game of chess if you could pay extra to put an extra queen on the board? My guess is no, because it's no longer about the game itself, and more about who can spend the most cash to win.
So as much as some people try to defend it, it simply doesn't change the fact that there are many gamers, myself included, who simply don't think it belongs. And you know what, we are vocal about it because we don't want it to ruin the games we enjoy, but if it comes to it many of us will leave if the MMO we loved becomes riddled with RMT.
I feel that purchasing extra 'perks' or in-game items is wrong and doesn't belong in a monthly subscription MMO. The reasoning is really very simple, and it's that it completely ruins the spirit of the game for me. MMOs are supposed to be about progressing within the game through your own effort and skill. When people bypass this by paying for ingame advantages, whether it be from gold-farmers, or the developer themselves, it breaks the fourth wall. When this happens, the "virtual world" aspect of the MMO is diminished, and it starts to turn into whoever can piss away the most money on the game. Sure you could say to the contrary that it's otherwise about who can piss away the most time on the game, but hey, that's what many vetern MMO gamers are used to, and prefer. To the people trying to defend it, claiming it has no adverse effect on the gameplay of myself or others, or how the companies are just trying to make money: Would you play a game of monopoly if the players could pay real cash to buy the properties and put hotels on the board? Would you play a game of chess if you could pay extra to put an extra queen on the board? My guess is no, because it's no longer about the game itself, and more about who can spend the most cash to win. So as much as some people try to defend it, it simply doesn't change the fact that there are many gamers, myself included, who simply don't think it belongs. And you know what, we are vocal about it because we don't want it to ruin the games we enjoy, but if it comes to it many of us will leave if the MMO we loved becomes riddled with RMT.
i scan this post and found "would you play monopoly if players can pay real money for puting hotels all over the board?" and "multiple queen in chess board" something something like that.
yeah that statement should now be a powerful point to defenders of oz.
seriously man. mmo is dead. pc gaming is dead. too much curruption. console is a real game for real gamers.
I'm surprised to see where this post went over the past several months LOL. From a religious, hands on my hips, don't tell me what to do with my money flame fest... to an argument about Capitalism as a whole and a series of 'player deleted trolled messages. Very interesting.
To keep the topic on point. I don't have an agenda. I'm someone who can afford to pay extra money for premium service or items, I would rather NOT. I certainly am not 'telling you what to do with your money, or what to wear when you leave the house, or what time to be home (gamergurl or girlgamer or whatever- angrygirl).
My whole point is WE- the collective WE are going to decide the trend for future mmo gaming. Promote what you think is fair. If you will pay for a monthly SUB as well as an item shop... that is what you will perpetuate for OUR collective future. If the buck literally STOPS at a monthly fee and you will not contribute to an item shop over and above that, then THAT will be our collective future.
Your choices will decide where gaming goes from here and how much WE will all HAVE to bend over in the future. Choose wisely, and try to look beyond your own credit card and your own individual, immediate needs... and see the forest through the trees. The bigger picture is the trends you are inspiring in OUR future games.
Comments
Companies guilding you, so you fall for it? Or you mean you are blaming companies for purchase decisions because they exist? Once again, I ask, do you buy everything in a supermarket just because they are available?
You want flat fees for everything. Some other gamers prefer basic fees for basic common services, and ad hoc charges for extras. Still some others don't care as long as the game is fun and the fees (however it is charged) are appropriate. That is it. Why all the fuss?
Don't start telling me things will slide to hell tomorrow. You do not read tomorrow. Nor do I.
You are just indirectly telling us you are the smart consumer, anyone else not following your footsteps are not smart.
Oh great one, pls publish a book telling us how to be smart. But print it free, or we will see you as driven by greed. Mail one to me free please, on the double. Not paying of course, as I am trained by you to be smart. I need not pay but I want everything.
Lisubab is on FIRE!!!
I'm not here to complete my forum PVP dailies.
Hmm you based your campaign on a couple cases, cases you tell us, but we never know if that is the truth. You surely have a very solid ground to put up your case.
I agree, it will continue the trend because people will continue to buy whatever they want because it's their God given right and who cares what it does to gaming!!
I didn't say you HAVE to pay additional money above the subscription NOW, but that's where the trend is heading and by showing game companies that we're more than willing to pay pay pay... that is where we will end up.
My point is NOT that you pay for a good service rendered and that everyone is entitled to blah blah a Mercedes over a Yugo.
My point is that what you are getting NOW for free...ALL WRONG or for your monthly subscription fee.... you will soon be paying for as part of the trend. If you are paying for additional items or goodies now... you will HAVE TO PAY for them tomorrow, and you WILL NOT have a choice.
There is no free lunch, Milton Friedmon tells us decades ago. You are paying for it somehow, or else the supplier goes bankrupt and you no longer enjoys the service. What is free as you suggest is a flat price covering everything. Its like a package deal. It might be cheaper than pricing each and adding up, but it comes with less flexibility on what you can choose to buy or not buy. Its like bundling all cars with leather seats and furs and fancy carpets.
Some people like a full package, some people like to pick and buy. Its all personal preference, and there is no right or wrong there. Someone likes buffets, someone else likes a la carte.
Who says it has no impact?Since the majority of games out right now have PVP,your darn ight it plays an impact.Of coursae if it has no impact at all on other players,then it's a no brainer,let them waste their money.I think it is also a no brainer to realize they are not going to spend money unlesss it DOES have an impact. It has impact on the guy paying it, of course, that is why he buys it. So what? You are jealous or what? Why can't you live with the fact that people can and will buy things you cannot afford or do not wish to pay for?
I did a LOT of reading on a game that walked through a few nations, Russia/China included called ZT online.What i found was that the game does not care about fair,it does not care about players at all,they care about creating a system that fuels players to out buy,out spend each other.This works because that is exactly what the rich will do,they are lazy and can afford it,so it does not bother them to waste money. Ok there is a game out there, so what? We need to declare war or what? You do not need to play that game, once again, live with the fact that people can and may purchase things you do not feel willing or able to pay for. That is life. The owner of chelsea is going to buy a submarine. Do you need to talk about that too?
There is actually quite a few rich people out there willing to spend money if it can buy them the top ladder.This is shown by the fact that ZT online through Russia/China and other nations has over 2 million concurrent users at one time,i highly doubt WOW has those kind of numbers and WOW does not have the payscale that ZT has.WOW has a ton of multi boxers,goto you tube or Justin TV,i have seen over 2000 people in the justin tv WOW room,so you know mujltiboxing is VERY popular in WOW.That means there is far less than 16 million total accounts,remove also the massive amount of RMT farmers in WOW and you have maybe 5-6 million. Oh suddenly you can arrive at such accurate statistics based on the number of people posing on that web (all of them must be WoW players? all of them must be multi boxers? You know them? in person?)
SO out of WOW's say 6 million how many concurrent users?I believe games use the 20% ratio any proof? or just your belief?),that is how they determine server sizes what has multibox ratio to do with blizzard setting server size? ,so that means WOW has around 1.2 million concurrent users,and that is about right since ZT online actually had more than WOW 3 years ago and that is if you include all the multi boxers and RMT farmers.
What does all this mean?It means there is a much bigger market for paying more than what games are worth and not just in certain areas .all over the world.When EQ2 did their intial tests on who was spending the most money it was the USA that had the top 3 states for spending on RMT.California was number 1. So there is a market, and firms need to refrain from farming that market? That is your idea of capitalism?
So just like you have idiots like the Yankees spending ridiculous amounts of money to try and BUY a winner,it does ruiin it for others and it does ruin it for others in gaming.Even if you choose to not support these games,there is a ton of rich people waiting in line to support them,so we may not win the war on common sense gaming. I agree somewhat, but the point is, why do I care what the neighborhood Joe is buying. Do I have enough issues more relevant to myself to worry about than dialing up and long distance and calling all Russians and Chinese to not play this game or that?
One thing I keep wondering, why do you care so much about what others are doing, when it appears they are playing games you do not currently play now.
Stop preaching about how this would ruin the gaming industry. Its just games, not going to fuel a world war 3.
I believe most MMOs in Asia use a Pay As You Go type of subscription model. This is akin to buying a cell phone with hours on it, and buying more hours when you run out of time.
this.
Quite a few Asians don't end up paying as much as we would for a month (usually the non hardcore ones) and so they tend to purchase store stuff to either catch up or because they have some money to spare. It's also a community thing. If 60% of people use the shop (and it has a direct impact on the gameplay) then it creates an atmosphere where the shop is not only encouraged but is expected to be used.
This is exactly what I'd love to see avoided.
This is how i see the gaming companies preying on gamers... and taking complete advantage of their customer.
You want to change other's habit and behaviour because of your personal bible about how people should play their games? Hmm, .... is this a church?
How about start with drug addiction, that I feel is a more pressing issue that gaming.
When the owners of the infastructure used to deliver those extra pixels want their peice of that extra income, we better not hear a peep from those game makers/publishers.
See you in the dream..
The Fires from heaven, now as cold as ice. A rapid ascension tolls a heavy price.
I purchased Fury.
=(
I just wanted to support Australian developers...
I am playing EVE and it's alright... level V skills are a bit much.
You all need to learn to spell.
I purchased Fury.
=(
I just wanted to support Australian developers...
I purchased it to. It had potential. I beta tested it, knew it was not ready, but it was pretty addicting so I bought it out of hope.
Lesson learned though.
Honestly I dont think anyone has a problem with discretionary spending, as long as that discretionary spending does not negatively impact others experience. That makes no sense. How can I know if I offended someone when I buy the icecream from this supermarket? Do I need to place an ad seeking global concensus? Heck if some jealous guy need to look prettier than everyone else, the game cannot possibly code any options for everyone else, lest this guy's experience is negatively affected. Who is to draw the line?
Unlike real life, MMO's have the capability to both level the playing field and allow those who do not have advantages others do in life to experience a different kind of reality. That is how you play a game, you need to do something in a game you failed to achieve in RL. Not me. So, that means I do not need to agree with you, nice.
At the risk of sounding like a bleeding heart (far from it... Im probably one of the most fiscally conservative individuals youll meet), mechanisms that encourage individuals in humanity who lack advantage to experience an existence, however trivial, where their own work matters is healthy, and it teaches people the value of personal achievement. Ok you admit you have strong unique preference. That about tells us what you suggest is most probably not well received by the majority. At the same time, personal achievement and game are virtually totally alien and disjoint sets to me. I won't imagine a personal achievement from a game.
MMO companies that exploit the free to play model by turning into a pay to win model (which is the crux of peoples concerns here-- and which does in fact happen regularly in games today -- see any game made by Perfect World Entertainment, Vestgame's World of Kungfu, and a whole host of other "free to play, but pay to win" games for examples) undermine what can be a positive social mechanism and turn it into a wholly cash hungry arena meant only to be played by corporate executives with too much time on their hands who like to beat up broke kids, and brag about it --- or on the flipside its turned into a game played by Vietnamese and Chinese individuals who are paid in game currency for their labor and encouraged to make life unpleasant for players as a means of driving up sales due to competitive pressure! This is absurd. Business practice of certain companies, if unpopular will change the successful models used by others? What kind of theory is that. Ok someone start drinking gasoline, one chinese lady actually drinks gasoline. This means it will spoil the drinks business, as coke will start selling bottles of gasoline coke instead of the classic. Oh, classic argument from you. On the other hand, if the new business model turns out to be popular, what do we call that? Innovative pricing?
And dont think thats not what happens in many Free to Play game models! Unfortunately its been rather well documented. Well documented = a lot of people trying to preach it = truth? One of the most documented idea is that the earth is flat.
So how about we get the debate back on track here, if there ever was one. If there was not, how about we give this debate some actual perspective?
The true concern here is not whether someone wants to tell you how to spend your money. Its how much money is reasonable the market will tell if it is reasonable, if it sells it is. that is capitalism to ask from an MMO developer to its consumers, and where is the line between fair market profit and rapacious 19th century tycoon brand capitalism? Is there a way to objectively draw a line? You draw the line for us all?
Live and let live.
I really hate the cash shop idea for games with a monthly fee, but I know it will expand until it levels off against consumer demand. TCGs with exclusive in-game items have been around for a while now, and they are popular enough that companies keep making new sets. Same with all the other little percs that companies cleverly market to you so they don't have 'cash shop' written all over them.
Gaming is value entertainment as it stands right now. Your average casual Joe gamer has fairly deep pockets, enough so that there was a rapid expansion of the RMT as more players entered the genre, and don't pretend that these big corporate behind the games are that stupid.
this kind of stuff is a bait for the weak hearted such as the age of 13-22. strong hearted as us see through it and know what is right and what is wrong. we refuse to pay additional cause we care for our pride as a player, as a consumer.
this is especially in the free2play crap. pay to win in pvp. western monthly mmo is about to copy it.
to be honest i dont have a problem if its just for the decoration, fasion, ect.. that dont have any stats effect or any nagative effects in the game and as long as they dont pull up that smart-ass strategy on us like.... say normally you gain 70.00% exp per mob kill bu then they change it to 13.00% per mob to force players pay.
or like say your moving speed is slow as a turtle, and they made run fast only obtainable through paying real money.
I feel that purchasing extra 'perks' or in-game items is wrong and doesn't belong in a monthly subscription MMO.
The reasoning is really very simple, and it's that it completely ruins the spirit of the game for me. MMOs are supposed to be about progressing within the game through your own effort and skill. When people bypass this by paying for ingame advantages, whether it be from gold-farmers, or the developer themselves, it breaks the fourth wall. When this happens, the "virtual world" aspect of the MMO is diminished, and it starts to turn into whoever can piss away the most money on the game. Sure you could say to the contrary that it's otherwise about who can piss away the most time on the game, but hey, that's what many vetern MMO gamers are used to, and prefer.
To the people trying to defend it, claiming it has no adverse effect on the gameplay of myself or others, or how the companies are just trying to make money: Would you play a game of monopoly if the players could pay real cash to buy the properties and put hotels on the board? Would you play a game of chess if you could pay extra to put an extra queen on the board? My guess is no, because it's no longer about the game itself, and more about who can spend the most cash to win.
So as much as some people try to defend it, it simply doesn't change the fact that there are many gamers, myself included, who simply don't think it belongs. And you know what, we are vocal about it because we don't want it to ruin the games we enjoy, but if it comes to it many of us will leave if the MMO we loved becomes riddled with RMT.
i scan this post and found "would you play monopoly if players can pay real money for puting hotels all over the board?" and "multiple queen in chess board" something something like that.
yeah that statement should now be a powerful point to defenders of oz.
seriously man. mmo is dead. pc gaming is dead. too much curruption. console is a real game for real gamers.
I'm surprised to see where this post went over the past several months LOL. From a religious, hands on my hips, don't tell me what to do with my money flame fest... to an argument about Capitalism as a whole and a series of 'player deleted trolled messages. Very interesting.
To keep the topic on point. I don't have an agenda. I'm someone who can afford to pay extra money for premium service or items, I would rather NOT. I certainly am not 'telling you what to do with your money, or what to wear when you leave the house, or what time to be home (gamergurl or girlgamer or whatever- angrygirl).
My whole point is WE- the collective WE are going to decide the trend for future mmo gaming. Promote what you think is fair. If you will pay for a monthly SUB as well as an item shop... that is what you will perpetuate for OUR collective future. If the buck literally STOPS at a monthly fee and you will not contribute to an item shop over and above that, then THAT will be our collective future.
Your choices will decide where gaming goes from here and how much WE will all HAVE to bend over in the future. Choose wisely, and try to look beyond your own credit card and your own individual, immediate needs... and see the forest through the trees. The bigger picture is the trends you are inspiring in OUR future games.
No bitchers.