"the Imperial Agent uses stealth and tactics to quietly creep up on her enemies."
Shouldn't be his/her... his or her.
Actually, in many circles, it's considered proper grammar to use "her" when referring to an individual whose gender is not revealed....or when simply referencing a generic person placed in a given situation.
This game is beginning to interest me. Please keep the info coming!
Joined 2004 - I can't believe I've been a MMORPG.com member for 20 years! Get off my lawn!
Looks like a really interesting class to play, both in gameplay and immersion. I dislike my chars being too heroic so I love the low key profile on these guys.
Looks like a single player game with a subscription fee to me.
Who cares bout the classes, I want to learn about the "free" world, the crafting/gathering, the economy, the items and different types of NPC's, PVP and the meaning of PVP, ability to go evil?, these are the things that will make A MMORPG, classes are ine very single player game, BIOWARE U are a great single player game maker, I highly doubt u will have the slighest clue on how to make a longevity interesting mmorpg. O well.
Does anyone else think the guy in these pictures looks like Tony Dungy...NFL head coach or Imperial spy?
Hmmm I always remember his being used when the gender is unknown and that they started doing the his or her for political correctness. But I realize that they do gender classes like the Captain in Lotro is considered female etc.
"I will not play it nor any other MMO until they make it possible to obtain the best gear without forcing people to group up to do so." SwampRob
IF ONLY THEY'D HAD INVISIBLE BELTS ON ENDOR, THEN THE SHIELD GENERATOR COULD'VE REALLY EASILY BEEN BLOWN UP AND THEY WOULDN'T HAVE NEEDED EWOKS AT ALL.
Sounds like they've already been shown the last two TOR classes. Well, I guess those will make a nice post-Thanksgiving treat for the rest of us lol
Aye, though they may as well have just said "the last class".
Unless I missed a PR (I honestly haven't been following the game as closely as I used to), then they still haven't released the Jedi class, and I think it's pretty much a given that there's going to be one. Especially since they have the sith warrior. Which would mean 1 last class + the jedi class.
Will be interesting to see what they come up w/.
The Jedi Knight class was already revealed. Are you saying there was a second Jedi class announced?
A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.
Originally posted by MMO_Doubter AS for popularity - well, swords and sorcery tends to be more popular than Science Fiction. Look at the numbers of each type of MMO out there.
Star Wars is a huge IP - but this isn't the Star Wars of the movies - it's KOTOR. A much smaller IP.
I almost always think you are right MMO Doubter, but not this time. This time I think you are very wrong. Fantasy MMOs may seem incredibly popular right now, but the market is absolutely glutted with them. They seem like a sure-fire hit because World of Warcraft's dominance. I bet things would be much different in the MMOverse if Blizzard had made Worlds of Starcraft instead of World of Warcraft.
As it stands I think people are tiring of fantasy MMOs (I know I am,) and this is one reason why people are clamouring for Star Trek Online and Star Wars: The Old Republic. I think the age of sci-fi MMOs will dawn with these two games, no matter what negative things you can say about them.
Also claiming that "KOTOR is a much smaller IP" is like travelling back in time 5 years or so and saying "World of Warcraft won't be that big, Warcraft is a small IP. Much smaller than Lord of the Rings."
actually, it isn't even kotor. if anyone pay attention to biowares site for the game. its planned as a pickup years/ centuries after the end of the movies. and all.
Also, combat system does not work like kotor. more faster paced really.
Centuries after the movies? I think you mean to say "Centuries after KOTOR" which would be millennia before the movies. It's definitely still set in The Old Republic that we were introduced to in Knights of The Old Republic, hence the name "Star Wars: The Old Republic."
Edit: The devs have also made direct reference to KOTOR characters, i.e. Darth Revan, so there is a definite story continuity there as well.
This game has all the MMO elements you would ever need, from social activities to economy, crafting&harvesting, PvP combat, raids and everything else. They already confirmed it. Otherwise, how could they even think of challenging World of Warcraft? Don't forget that Electronic Arts is set to do exactly that. They tried Mythic and Warhammer with WO, now they are putting their money on Bioware and Star Wars. And this time, they may actually succeed. Until now, Bioware only talked about their unique take on MMOs which, unsurprisingly, involves deep storylines, class arcs, NPC interactions just like the ones we are used to in their single player games; except now they will be applied to a MMORPG, which is a massive innovation by itself for the genre. After playing Dragon Age, I have even more faith that Bioware can pull it off. They showed they can do great dungeon, bosses and story with a gameplay very akin to MMO ones, especially WoW. Beta will come soon anyway, and everyone will be able to judge then.
It seems like you have already judged. You have just reached a different verdict.
PvP, crafting,raids? Well, if there is one crafting profession, one arena for team-based PvP, and a couple of raid-size 'dungeons', then what they have claimed will be factually accurate.
Will it be satisfying to the general MMO crowd? You tell me.
AS for popularity - well, swords and sorcery tends to be more popular than Science Fiction. Look at the numbers of each type of MMO out there.
Star Wars is a huge IP - but this isn't the Star Wars of the movies - it's KOTOR. A much smaller IP.
lawl at you! KOTOR is actually a massive IP, comparable to the movies. But you would know that, because you have all the unforeseen answers. Don't you? Blizzard spy.
lawl at you! KOTOR is actually a massive IP, comparable to the movies. But you would know that, because you have all the unforeseen answers. Don't you? Blizzard spy.
"Comparable to the movies"?
I think that clears up any doubt as to your rationality regarding this subject.
"Blizzard spy"?
I guess you haven't been following the threads about the recent addition of a cash shop to WoW.
You have shamed yourself with this post, not me.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
lawl at you! KOTOR is actually a massive IP, comparable to the movies. But you would know that, because you have all the unforeseen answers. Don't you? Blizzard spy.
"Comparable to the movies"?
I think that clears up any doubt as to your rationality regarding this subject.
"Blizzard spy"?
I guess you haven't been following the threads about the recent addition of a cash shop to WoW.
You have shamed yourself with this post, not me.
Quoted for truth.
You could ask 1000 people who saw the original star wars when it came out in the 1970's what "the old republic timeline" meant. Maybe 1/3 of them would get it.
Or better yet, get a group of people that are not from the the sci-fi demographic/mmo demographic and they could tell you that Star Wars was a Sci-Fi movie with "laser swords and psychic powers" at the least
Ask those same people what kotor was, or "the old republic" in star wars and you'll get some funny looks.
People know star wars who haven't seen it.
People don't know the expanded univerise unless they seek it.
So has there been any information on the common area or main starting city? I know its so called story driven but if its an MMO it will have the usual rally area where players can all meet up to go on their story driven adventure? I picture a city with around 2K players all looking for groups to do the story driven adventure. Because the alternative is a server lobby listing activve games and active players that you can log in and join. If thats the case its not an MMO anymore than counterstrike is an MMO.
I've had poor experiences with MMO stealth classes in several games and have hope that Bioware gets it right. Although the stealth mechanics often worked as expected there were three problems. The first was falling out of stealth during your attack and revealing yourself to nearby foe. Similarly, if you were sniping a target it usually sent an alarm that caused those close by to give chase. This usually lead to the second problem, which was "active" crowd control. While you can sometimes plan ahead and sap a few before a kill, if you are dealing with a large crowd of targets things will often require active crowd controls to manage those numbers. The third and biggest problem I always seemed to have was that stealth classes usually sucked in PvP unless they were backed up by other stealthers or a pocket healer (stupid Witch Hunters). It was as if the stealth mechanics suddenly stopped working and again without active crowd controls you were a sitting duck.
A few things Bioware may do right, I hope is this:
1. Because each class is given class specific questing thru the story arc it should at least be fun and often soloable as stealthers generally go.
2. They are able to use environmental cover and hopefully while sniping from that cover be difficult to spot.
3. The use of specialized grenades could allow for the active crowd control they might need if things get busy.
4. Stealth classes are usually the last to be balanced out. Hopefully they don't wait. And with that a small suggestion. This class usually deploys very high burst damage while protected by the weakest armor in the game. Don't balance it that way. PLEASE! Instead, challenge the player's skills and make those crit kills a positional requirement. As part of their unique HUD it could include the "potential" crit % of an attack launched as they circle a target or take a sniper's bead from a distance. Their armor and gear are allowing them to stealth, it should greatly influence how difficult it will be to target them.
5. It's Bioware dammit and they makes some awesome games. Given the small number of classes I think they could do this one right with enough focus.
While such a class can be a lot of fun in a single player game, I have serious misgivings about it in an MMO. Yeah, it's really cool that the player is able to clear an entire level without triggering an alarm, but what are his friends doing in the meantime? Alt+tabbing so that they can play hearts while they wait?
probably clearing one side while the combat classes are on the other side rising a stink, making noise and leaving a patch to the Item of Power more or less open for the IA...
lawl at you! KOTOR is actually a massive IP, comparable to the movies. But you would know that, because you have all the unforeseen answers. Don't you? Blizzard spy.
"Comparable to the movies"?
I think that clears up any doubt as to your rationality regarding this subject.
"Blizzard spy"?
I guess you haven't been following the threads about the recent addition of a cash shop to WoW.
You have shamed yourself with this post, not me.
Quoted for truth.
You could ask 1000 people who saw the original star wars when it came out in the 1970's what "the old republic timeline" meant. Maybe 1/3 of them would get it.
Or better yet, get a group of people that are not from the the sci-fi demographic/mmo demographic and they could tell you that Star Wars was a Sci-Fi movie with "laser swords and psychic powers" at the least
Ask those same people what kotor was, or "the old republic" in star wars and you'll get some funny looks.
People know star wars who haven't seen it.
People don't know the expanded univerise unless they seek it.
I was talking about Star Wars fanbois exclusively, but I get what you're saying regarding outsiders. But even then, there are a large number of people who aren't Star Wars fanbois who still love KOTOR, if only the game. It was the best selling game during the year of it's release, I believe. But I wasn't a die hard fanboi until AFTER I played KOTOR and began reading about the Old Republic. And I'm almost positive that I'm not that rare of a breed, though I like to pretend I am sometimes.
As far as people who saw the movies in the '70's, well, they're all dead now or something right? I mean, wasn't it a post-Vietnam-era experiment to gage the reaction of vets in a sci-fi encounter. And didn't something like half the vets in the theaters across the U.S. end up killing each other for fear of the Dark Side?
That's exactly what happened. So, it goes without saying, but... in your face.
[sarcasm]lawl at you! KOTOR is actually a massive IP, comparable to the movies. But you would know that, because you have all the unforeseen answers. Don't you? Blizzard spy.[/sarcasm]
"Comparable to the movies"?
I think that clears up any doubt as to your rationality regarding this subject.
"Blizzard spy"?
I guess you haven't been following the threads about the recent addition of a cash shop to WoW.
You have shamed yourself with this post, not me.
People are always telling me to use those little sarcasm boxes when I speak, but I neglected to in this instance, because not only is it a complete waste of time, but so is talking to you, really. You oft give off the impression that you know something, when you've only read it from one source. So, in your tradition, I took the liberty of typing up a bit of drabble in your honor!
You're welcome!
P.S. What exactly does the cash shop in WoW have to do with anything? Is it my "Blizzard spy" comment? Did you put that shop there...? o.Omg you did... Tell your leaders that they're idiots, then. Releasing a cash shop that sells meaningless little toys for your toon to do whatever with is the end of WoW. Not everything following vanilla, mind you. Just this cash shop. Now, we all know that WoW has truly turned... to the dark side. And, so, it goes without saying, that you TOO have joined! Haven't you??
The recently revealed Imperial Agent class in Star Wars: The Old Republic provides the Empire with a hefty dose of subtlety and intrigue. While many classes, like say the Sith Warrior, barge through levels with their lightsabers blazing, the Imperial Agent uses stealth and tactics to quietly creep up on her enemies. LucasArts and Bioware put on a press demonstration last week in San Francisco to give us the first chance to see these guys in action. While it was quite clearly very early - we were told to imagine the "stealth" effect as the character snuck around on a massive theatre screen in the LucasArts compound - this class adds something to the Star Wars world that has never really been the focus before: subtlety.
"the Imperial Agent uses stealth and tactics to quietly creep up on her enemies."
Shouldn't be his/her... his or her.
The "politically correct" way to put it would be "their enemies", but his/her is fine, too.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
That Imperial Agent is the spittin' image of former Indianapolis Colts coach Tony Dungy minus the gun of course. He even looks like he is getting the nickel defense ready with the headset.
they dont use stealth, but use a magical belt of invisibility that allows them to pass by unseen......
If you played Kotor you would know such things exist. Your post is fail.
He's saying "they don't use stealth, they use stealth called something else." Isn't "invisibility that allows them to pass by unseen" the way stealth is used in most MMO's?
Your link actually supports the argument you're challenging. : ) 'Their' is plural, i.e. more than one. So the article stated:
'...the Imperial Agent uses stealth and tactics to quietly creep up on her enemies.' = Correct
IMO, it probably would have been better worded like this:
'...the Imperial Agent uses stealth and tactics to quietly creep up on enemies.'
Or:
'...Imperial Agents use stealth and tactics to quietly creep up on their enemies.'
Always glad to see some people can still pay attention to things like grammar and make an effort not to come across like teeny-bopper, chat-room-dwelling, net-speaking simpletons....
Comments
Shouldn't be his/her... his or her.
Actually, in many circles, it's considered proper grammar to use "her" when referring to an individual whose gender is not revealed....or when simply referencing a generic person placed in a given situation.
This game is beginning to interest me. Please keep the info coming!
Joined 2004 - I can't believe I've been a MMORPG.com member for 20 years! Get off my lawn!
Looks like a really interesting class to play, both in gameplay and immersion. I dislike my chars being too heroic so I love the low key profile on these guys.
My brand new bloggity blog.
Really happy about this, strongly anticipating the last 2 class info for TOR on Dec 3rd.
Looks like a single player game with a subscription fee to me.
Who cares bout the classes, I want to learn about the "free" world, the crafting/gathering, the economy, the items and different types of NPC's, PVP and the meaning of PVP, ability to go evil?, these are the things that will make A MMORPG, classes are ine very single player game, BIOWARE U are a great single player game maker, I highly doubt u will have the slighest clue on how to make a longevity interesting mmorpg. O well.
Does anyone else think the guy in these pictures looks like Tony Dungy...NFL head coach or Imperial spy?
Hmmm I always remember his being used when the gender is unknown and that they started doing the his or her for political correctness. But I realize that they do gender classes like the Captain in Lotro is considered female etc.
"I will not play it nor any other MMO until they make it possible to obtain the best gear without forcing people to group up to do so." SwampRob
I miss Star Wars.
IF ONLY THEY'D HAD INVISIBLE BELTS ON ENDOR, THEN THE SHIELD GENERATOR COULD'VE REALLY EASILY BEEN BLOWN UP AND THEY WOULDN'T HAVE NEEDED EWOKS AT ALL.
I miss Star Wars.
Aye, though they may as well have just said "the last class".
Unless I missed a PR (I honestly haven't been following the game as closely as I used to), then they still haven't released the Jedi class, and I think it's pretty much a given that there's going to be one. Especially since they have the sith warrior. Which would mean 1 last class + the jedi class.
Will be interesting to see what they come up w/.
The Jedi Knight class was already revealed. Are you saying there was a second Jedi class announced?
A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.
I almost always think you are right MMO Doubter, but not this time. This time I think you are very wrong. Fantasy MMOs may seem incredibly popular right now, but the market is absolutely glutted with them. They seem like a sure-fire hit because World of Warcraft's dominance. I bet things would be much different in the MMOverse if Blizzard had made Worlds of Starcraft instead of World of Warcraft.
As it stands I think people are tiring of fantasy MMOs (I know I am,) and this is one reason why people are clamouring for Star Trek Online and Star Wars: The Old Republic. I think the age of sci-fi MMOs will dawn with these two games, no matter what negative things you can say about them.
Also claiming that "KOTOR is a much smaller IP" is like travelling back in time 5 years or so and saying "World of Warcraft won't be that big, Warcraft is a small IP. Much smaller than Lord of the Rings."
Centuries after the movies? I think you mean to say "Centuries after KOTOR" which would be millennia before the movies. It's definitely still set in The Old Republic that we were introduced to in Knights of The Old Republic, hence the name "Star Wars: The Old Republic."
Edit: The devs have also made direct reference to KOTOR characters, i.e. Darth Revan, so there is a definite story continuity there as well.
That Imperial Agent is the spittin' image of former Indianapolis Colts coach Tony Dungy minus the gun of course.
He even looks like he is getting the nickel defense ready with the headset.
It seems like you have already judged. You have just reached a different verdict.
PvP, crafting,raids? Well, if there is one crafting profession, one arena for team-based PvP, and a couple of raid-size 'dungeons', then what they have claimed will be factually accurate.
Will it be satisfying to the general MMO crowd? You tell me.
AS for popularity - well, swords and sorcery tends to be more popular than Science Fiction. Look at the numbers of each type of MMO out there.
Star Wars is a huge IP - but this isn't the Star Wars of the movies - it's KOTOR. A much smaller IP.
lawl at you! KOTOR is actually a massive IP, comparable to the movies. But you would know that, because you have all the unforeseen answers. Don't you? Blizzard spy.
THE Rooster Nash
"Comparable to the movies"?
I think that clears up any doubt as to your rationality regarding this subject.
"Blizzard spy"?
I guess you haven't been following the threads about the recent addition of a cash shop to WoW.
You have shamed yourself with this post, not me.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
"Comparable to the movies"?
I think that clears up any doubt as to your rationality regarding this subject.
"Blizzard spy"?
I guess you haven't been following the threads about the recent addition of a cash shop to WoW.
You have shamed yourself with this post, not me.
Quoted for truth.
You could ask 1000 people who saw the original star wars when it came out in the 1970's what "the old republic timeline" meant. Maybe 1/3 of them would get it.
Or better yet, get a group of people that are not from the the sci-fi demographic/mmo demographic and they could tell you that Star Wars was a Sci-Fi movie with "laser swords and psychic powers" at the least
Ask those same people what kotor was, or "the old republic" in star wars and you'll get some funny looks.
People know star wars who haven't seen it.
People don't know the expanded univerise unless they seek it.
So has there been any information on the common area or main starting city? I know its so called story driven but if its an MMO it will have the usual rally area where players can all meet up to go on their story driven adventure? I picture a city with around 2K players all looking for groups to do the story driven adventure. Because the alternative is a server lobby listing activve games and active players that you can log in and join. If thats the case its not an MMO anymore than counterstrike is an MMO.
FINBAR
-------------------------------------------
I've had poor experiences with MMO stealth classes in several games and have hope that Bioware gets it right. Although the stealth mechanics often worked as expected there were three problems. The first was falling out of stealth during your attack and revealing yourself to nearby foe. Similarly, if you were sniping a target it usually sent an alarm that caused those close by to give chase. This usually lead to the second problem, which was "active" crowd control. While you can sometimes plan ahead and sap a few before a kill, if you are dealing with a large crowd of targets things will often require active crowd controls to manage those numbers. The third and biggest problem I always seemed to have was that stealth classes usually sucked in PvP unless they were backed up by other stealthers or a pocket healer (stupid Witch Hunters). It was as if the stealth mechanics suddenly stopped working and again without active crowd controls you were a sitting duck.
A few things Bioware may do right, I hope is this:
1. Because each class is given class specific questing thru the story arc it should at least be fun and often soloable as stealthers generally go.
2. They are able to use environmental cover and hopefully while sniping from that cover be difficult to spot.
3. The use of specialized grenades could allow for the active crowd control they might need if things get busy.
4. Stealth classes are usually the last to be balanced out. Hopefully they don't wait. And with that a small suggestion. This class usually deploys very high burst damage while protected by the weakest armor in the game. Don't balance it that way. PLEASE! Instead, challenge the player's skills and make those crit kills a positional requirement. As part of their unique HUD it could include the "potential" crit % of an attack launched as they circle a target or take a sniper's bead from a distance. Their armor and gear are allowing them to stealth, it should greatly influence how difficult it will be to target them.
5. It's Bioware dammit and they makes some awesome games. Given the small number of classes I think they could do this one right with enough focus.
/steps off soapbox
probably clearing one side while the combat classes are on the other side rising a stink, making noise and leaving a patch to the Item of Power more or less open for the IA...
"Comparable to the movies"?
I think that clears up any doubt as to your rationality regarding this subject.
"Blizzard spy"?
I guess you haven't been following the threads about the recent addition of a cash shop to WoW.
You have shamed yourself with this post, not me.
Quoted for truth.
You could ask 1000 people who saw the original star wars when it came out in the 1970's what "the old republic timeline" meant. Maybe 1/3 of them would get it.
Or better yet, get a group of people that are not from the the sci-fi demographic/mmo demographic and they could tell you that Star Wars was a Sci-Fi movie with "laser swords and psychic powers" at the least
Ask those same people what kotor was, or "the old republic" in star wars and you'll get some funny looks.
People know star wars who haven't seen it.
People don't know the expanded univerise unless they seek it.
I was talking about Star Wars fanbois exclusively, but I get what you're saying regarding outsiders. But even then, there are a large number of people who aren't Star Wars fanbois who still love KOTOR, if only the game. It was the best selling game during the year of it's release, I believe. But I wasn't a die hard fanboi until AFTER I played KOTOR and began reading about the Old Republic. And I'm almost positive that I'm not that rare of a breed, though I like to pretend I am sometimes.
As far as people who saw the movies in the '70's, well, they're all dead now or something right? I mean, wasn't it a post-Vietnam-era experiment to gage the reaction of vets in a sci-fi encounter. And didn't something like half the vets in the theaters across the U.S. end up killing each other for fear of the Dark Side?
That's exactly what happened. So, it goes without saying, but... in your face.
THE Rooster Nash
"Comparable to the movies"?
I think that clears up any doubt as to your rationality regarding this subject.
"Blizzard spy"?
I guess you haven't been following the threads about the recent addition of a cash shop to WoW.
You have shamed yourself with this post, not me.
People are always telling me to use those little sarcasm boxes when I speak, but I neglected to in this instance, because not only is it a complete waste of time, but so is talking to you, really. You oft give off the impression that you know something, when you've only read it from one source. So, in your tradition, I took the liberty of typing up a bit of drabble in your honor!
You're welcome!
P.S. What exactly does the cash shop in WoW have to do with anything? Is it my "Blizzard spy" comment? Did you put that shop there...? o.Omg you did... Tell your leaders that they're idiots, then. Releasing a cash shop that sells meaningless little toys for your toon to do whatever with is the end of WoW. Not everything following vanilla, mind you. Just this cash shop. Now, we all know that WoW has truly turned... to the dark side. And, so, it goes without saying, that you TOO have joined! Haven't you??
THE Rooster Nash
"the Imperial Agent uses stealth and tactics to quietly creep up on her enemies."
Shouldn't be his/her... his or her.
The "politically correct" way to put it would be "their enemies", but his/her is fine, too.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Spot on :P
"Their" is grammatically incorrect. It implies more than one person. His or her is awkward, but correct.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
If you played Kotor you would know such things exist. Your post is fail.
If you played Kotor you would know such things exist. Your post is fail.
He's saying "they don't use stealth, they use stealth called something else." Isn't "invisibility that allows them to pass by unseen" the way stealth is used in most MMO's?
"Their" is grammatically incorrect. It implies more than one person. His or her is awkward, but correct.
Not necessarily. It works both ways. For more information see: www.wsu.edu/~brians/errors/their.html
"Their" is grammatically incorrect. It implies more than one person. His or her is awkward, but correct.
Not necessarily. It works both ways. For more information see: www.wsu.edu/~brians/errors/their.html
Your link actually supports the argument you're challenging. : ) 'Their' is plural, i.e. more than one. So the article stated:
'...the Imperial Agent uses stealth and tactics to quietly creep up on her enemies.' = Correct
IMO, it probably would have been better worded like this:
'...the Imperial Agent uses stealth and tactics to quietly creep up on enemies.'
Or:
'...Imperial Agents use stealth and tactics to quietly creep up on their enemies.'
Always glad to see some people can still pay attention to things like grammar and make an effort not to come across like teeny-bopper, chat-room-dwelling, net-speaking simpletons....