Haha, over here we have strict bandwidth caps and internet protocol shaping, resulting in the protocols used for gaming being given a lower priority than HTTP traffic, for example.
It's really not the end of the world...shaping is about the only issue gamers have to worry about, not bandwidth caps. Thankfully, we're experiencing the opposite phenomenon here as undersea cables for...Africa...are being laid and prices are dropping drastically.
come live in Australia, The no1 place in the Western world for sub par internet
my current plan (there are better ones out there):
10g per month (onpeak) 100g (offpeak , recently changed from unlimited). Max download speed is roughly 250kb/s and upload is sub dial up speeds.
And for all that (and line rental) your looking at $40 a month. Oh and if i go over its 10c per mb
MMO wish list:
-Changeable worlds -Solid non level based game -Sharks with lasers attached to their heads
Originally posted by Wraithone Originally posted by Fuerchtegott First of all, Congratulations for one of the most entertaining headlines lately. It's interesting to see the problems US American gamers deal with. In Europe (Germany) there are no bandwidht limitations (yet). Instead companies advertise new bandwidth records to get more customers. I also find it interesting that in the States it seems an either or deal when it comes to free-market vs government control. It's either total freedom (for who?) which in the end results in the customers being bereft of their rights when dealing with companies, or it is government influence, which apparently results in censorship, surveillance and loss of privacy. There is a third way, government control of quality and service, and thus, a protection of customer rights. This however, seems ti get lost more and more.
Your "third way" is just an open invitation to government interference. Keep in mind that Comcast and the rest have a LOT more money than we do to make "contributions" to the politicians who would make any of those new laws. The interesting thing that many people forget... Comcast and other such, wouldn't even exist absent governments giving them right of way for their lines. Not to mention the Sweet Deals they have with the local politicians to keep out competition. Thats why Comcast has a virtual monopoly in all too many parts of the country. It would be much better to keep government interference out of this, to the greatest extent possible.
I can see how and why you would think that, but that is simply not the way things work in other places. Please do not misunderstand me, people are still corrupt and largely selfish, but we just do not do things that way.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
I have read about this elsewhere and I have a hard time believing that companies like Comcast and At&t will get far. To insight the Rage of any “Nerd”, “Geek” or “Script Kiddy” would be down right idiotic. After any companies attempting this are repeatedly hacked and get a taste of their customers displeasure they will think twice about doing something so utterly stupid again. One angry hacker may not be enough but when they are targeted by seven thousand or more pissed off code savvy intellectuals they will fold and revert to the old system. Although I would hate for it to come to that It would be a show down of epic proportions…
We know nothing and stand in Ah of that which we can not see, completely mesmerized at that which we do not know and that which we could never possibly understand. It is infuriating - K.O.S
I have read about this elsewhere and I have a hard time believing that companies like Comcast and At&t will get far. To insight the Rage of any “Nerd”, “Geek” or “Script Kiddy” would be down right idiotic. After any companies attempting this are repeatedly hacked and get a taste of their customers displeasure they will think twice about doing something so utterly stupid again. One angry hacker may not be enough but when they are targeted by seven thousand or more pissed off code savvy intellectuals they will fold and revert to the old system. Although I would hate for it to come to that It would be a show down of epic proportions…
You don't understand how these corporate types think. ALL they care about is making the *quarterly* report look sweet. Literally. As for the actions mentioned, that would get the FBI and FatherLand Security involved. Then things would get VERY ugly for those involved. Comcast really doesn't care in the least about its victims...err..."customers". They've spent years and years getting away with their antics. It was only when they annoyed the FCC itself that they had any problems, and even then they are fighting the FCC in court. Just so long as they have a lock on millions upon millions of people with little or no competition, nothing is going to change for the better.
I am uncertain as are other posters as to how this related to online gaming. While our use of MMO’s uses far more bandwith than someone just sending emails we are small fry in the world of data transfer. I am not just talking about peer to peer file transfer. Social networks allow the sharing of videos etc.
If there is concern about usage levels that is where they should be looking.
Usa internet is sub-par with old copper wires moving most of the traffic still. They are having problems with no real actors on the marked wanting to upgrade, and most just sucking off the old tit and making oodles of money doing that.
Last thing, to the guy with the avatar linked to real person...dude ..reality check please.
Treating the internet as electricity, enforcing caps and charging for use is really quite ridiculous, and in my eyes only a way to apply an already existing business model to a new product. Logically you would be paying for access to the internet, and the speed at which you can access it at would be the price factor. Adding caps only reinforces the impression that 'someone' with a crappy net-infrastructure are trying to sucker in more customers than they can handle.
I don't know what all the fuss is about. I live in Australia. There is no such thing as a non capped internet connection. The average speed in Australia is 1500/512 and the average download cap is 12 GB.
I myself am on a 1500/512 connection with a 24 GB download limit before I get capped to 56k speed (that's the same as dial up for the new comers). I never reach that limit. We have 4 computers on the same connection all playing online games MMO's and FPS almost all day and we only ever use up half our download limit. You wont reach your limits if you don't spend all your afk time downloading junk.
If it happens its not the end of the world. If we can handle it why cant you?
I don't know what all the fuss is about. I live in Australia. There is no such thing as a non capped internet connection. The average speed in Australia is 1500/512 and the average download cap is 12 GB.
I myself am on a 1500/512 connection with a 24 GB download limit before I get capped to 56k speed (that's the same as dial up for the new comers). I never reach that limit. We have 4 computers on the same connection all playing online games MMO's and FPS almost all day and we only ever use up half our download limit. You wont reach your limits if you don't spend all your afk time downloading junk.
If it happens its not the end of the world. If we can handle it why cant you?
Yes, let us all sit down and eat our ration of bread and water and like it, the slaves that we are and should be.
Some senstors are trying to force IsP to be more fair and the FCC is on net nutrality for the same thing. Check MaximumPC.com theve covered it quite a bit. The sad thing is all these ISP say "we have a infestructure in par with the rest of the world" but our broadband pentration is 17th in the world, Switzerland is higher then us!
And then Comcast (who put in caps and throtting) have their profits up like 200%
Serious it's a sad thing when i can go to japan, get 3 times the speed at half the price and no throtteling and were supose to be "equal"
I don't know what all the fuss is about. I live in Australia. There is no such thing as a non capped internet connection. The average speed in Australia is 1500/512 and the average download cap is 12 GB.
I myself am on a 1500/512 connection with a 24 GB download limit before I get capped to 56k speed (that's the same as dial up for the new comers). I never reach that limit. We have 4 computers on the same connection all playing online games MMO's and FPS almost all day and we only ever use up half our download limit. You wont reach your limits if you don't spend all your afk time downloading junk.
If it happens its not the end of the world. If we can handle it why cant you?
Simply because your population(and ours) allows the politicians to continue to be bought by the corporations, does that make it right? At what point does the push back happen? What form does it take when it eventually happens? History demonstrates that it always happens, and that the longer it takes, the more "energetic" that push back becomes. Simply because the ruling Aussie corporations have a strangle hold on your internet, doesn't mean that it has to stay that way forever.
In terms of the internet infrastructure(and the investments required) absent government intervention to protect their corporate masters, many of us would have many more options than we currently do. The key(as in most mass societies) is numbers, and technology. Both can be used to apply pressure to those in positions of power to make other decisions(if its demonstrated to be in their own self interest...). But until enough people grow tired of being controlled with fear and intimidation tactics, little change for the better will happen.
Your "third way" is just an open invitation to government interference. Keep in mind that Comcast and the rest have a LOT more money than we do to make "contributions" to the politicians who would make any of those new laws. The interesting thing that many people forget... Comcast and other such, wouldn't even exist absent governments giving them right of way for their lines. Not to mention the Sweet Deals they have with the local politicians to keep out competition. Thats why Comcast has a virtual monopoly in all too many parts of the country. It would be much better to keep government interference out of this, to the greatest extent possible.
I can see how and why you would think that, but that is simply not the way things work in other places. Please do not misunderstand me, people are still corrupt and largely selfish, but we just do not do things that way.
This isn't other places. We have the finest politicians corporate money can produce. They don't know anything but the want to control everything, They're not bad people just products of a system gone amok.
Sorry, but I must disagree with part of your above. Yes, the power system is almost totally controlled by the banks and corporations(the Bail Out for Bankers, AIG and GM demonstrate that), yet those politicians who have allowed themselves to be purchased like commodities aren't "bad people"?? (boggle).
Look at their actions, not their words. One of the FEW politicians whose actions and words match up is Ron Paul(R-Texas). If we had even one hundred and fifty more like him spread through out the congress, little of this nonsense would ever see the light of day, let alone get enacted into law. The best we can hope for is to keep governments corrupting influence out of the internet to the greatest extent possible. That and apply pressure on key politicians to alter the Sweet Deals they make with the likes of Comcast and its ilk.
I don't know what all the fuss is about. I live in Australia. There is no such thing as a non capped internet connection. The average speed in Australia is 1500/512 and the average download cap is 12 GB.
I myself am on a 1500/512 connection with a 24 GB download limit before I get capped to 56k speed (that's the same as dial up for the new comers). I never reach that limit. We have 4 computers on the same connection all playing online games MMO's and FPS almost all day and we only ever use up half our download limit. You wont reach your limits if you don't spend all your afk time downloading junk.
If it happens its not the end of the world. If we can handle it why cant you?
Yes, let us all sit down and eat our ration of bread and water and like it, the slaves that we are and should be.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen. [Samuel Adams]
I have read about this elsewhere and I have a hard time believing that companies like Comcast and At&t will get far. To insight the Rage of any “Nerd”, “Geek” or “Script Kiddy” would be down right idiotic. After any companies attempting this are repeatedly hacked and get a taste of their customers displeasure they will think twice about doing something so utterly stupid again. One angry hacker may not be enough but when they are targeted by seven thousand or more pissed off code savvy intellectuals they will fold and revert to the old system. Although I would hate for it to come to that It would be a show down of epic proportions…
You don't understand how these corporate types think. ALL they care about is making the *quarterly* report look sweet. Literally. As for the actions mentioned, that would get the FBI and FatherLand Security involved. Then things would get VERY ugly for those involved. Comcast really doesn't care in the least about its victims...err..."customers". They've spent years and years getting away with their antics. It was only when they annoyed the FCC itself that they had any problems, and even then they are fighting the FCC in court. Just so long as they have a lock on millions upon millions of people with little or no competition, nothing is going to change for the better.
Hah. I understand how those greedy cooperate bastards think. (Mostly cause I’m a greedy corporate bastard…..) It could get the Gov involved and to stop any Government involvement they may just switch back instead of dealing with the trouble of being regulated. That’s just one possibility (and an unlikely one at that..) It just depends on how many people decide not to be” Victims“ , Sweet.
We know nothing and stand in Ah of that which we can not see, completely mesmerized at that which we do not know and that which we could never possibly understand. It is infuriating - K.O.S
Originally posted by Wraithone Originally posted by zymurgeist Originally posted by Dubhlaith
Originally posted by Wraithone Your "third way" is just an open invitation to government interference. Keep in mind that Comcast and the rest have a LOT more money than we do to make "contributions" to the politicians who would make any of those new laws. The interesting thing that many people forget... Comcast and other such, wouldn't even exist absent governments giving them right of way for their lines. Not to mention the Sweet Deals they have with the local politicians to keep out competition. Thats why Comcast has a virtual monopoly in all too many parts of the country. It would be much better to keep government interference out of this, to the greatest extent possible.
I can see how and why you would think that, but that is simply not the way things work in other places. Please do not misunderstand me, people are still corrupt and largely selfish, but we just do not do things that way.
This isn't other places. We have the finest politicians corporate money can produce. They don't know anything but the want to control everything, They're not bad people just products of a system gone amok.
Sorry, but I must disagree with part of your above. Yes, the power system is almost totally controlled by the banks and corporations(the Bail Out for Bankers, AIG and GM demonstrate that), yet those politicians who have allowed themselves to be purchased like commodities aren't "bad people"?? (boggle). Look at their actions, not their words. One of the FEW politicians whose actions and words match up is Ron Paul(R-Texas). If we had even one hundred and fifty more like him spread through out the congress, little of this nonsense would ever see the light of day, let alone get enacted into law. The best we can hope for is to keep governments corrupting influence out of the internet to the greatest extent possible. That and apply pressure on key politicians to alter the Sweet Deals they make with the likes of Comcast and its ilk.
I still disagree with your assessment of the third way, but I think more people in this thread should be listening to you. The third way would work, and be lovely, but only in a society with a government that cannot be controlled by corporations in the way many countries are.
Of course, I have no solution, but I do not think anger is the way to go about doing things. But then, asking politely is not going to do the trick either. These people are making gobs of money by doing things that are exactly counter to the public interest in the name of business. It is a difficult problem, and I honestly can think of no solutions for you guys.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
Come to Iceland if you think your connetions are bad... Then add that you are in middle of nowhere miles from the MMORPG.servers. Then add a Bandwith out of the country that is extra limited (while internal net is fast) and you get ... Unplayable MMOS 90% of the time. Normal package loss out of the country is 40-50% so basicly disconnect every 5 mins on peak time.
Now..... Thats in Reykjavík... try to be out in the middle of nowhere (thats where Im now). We are actually paying like 600 USD per month for a 500 kb/s connection. Yes... Im serious. Alot better than last year tho - then we had 125kb/s bandwith and were paying per minute charge for it - TWICE as much as normal phonecalls. Normal internet bill for just browsing was like 400 USD.
Try to play MMOs in these conditions and you will make love to your internet every night.
I am not sure where this talk about broadband getting slower. Comcast keeps making my line faster every year for the same price. As far as Broadband penetration, have you ever seen the size of America? Obviously much easier in Japan to give it to everyone when they live a country the size of Texas.
This is what comes of sitting on our lazy backsides and letting net neutrality slip through our fingers. There are now cable monopolies across our nation where deals have been struck so that no competitor is allowed in. They are not made public and slowly over time the bandwidth allowance per account is being restructured.
Other countries pay more they reason so we may soon as well. I doubt if the big ISP companies are concerned for the gaming industry.
First of all, Congratulations for one of the most entertaining headlines lately. It's interesting to see the problems US American gamers deal with. In Europe (Germany) there are no bandwidht limitations (yet). Instead companies advertise new bandwidth records to get more customers. I also find it interesting that in the States it seems an either or deal when it comes to free-market vs government control. It's either total freedom (for who?) which in the end results in the customers being bereft of their rights when dealing with companies, or it is government influence, which apparently results in censorship, surveillance and loss of privacy. There is a third way, government control of quality and service, and thus, a protection of customer rights. This however, seems ti get lost more and more.
Your "third way" is just an open invitation to government interference. Keep in mind that Comcast and the rest have a LOT more money than we do to make "contributions" to the politicians who would make any of those new laws. The interesting thing that many people forget... Comcast and other such, wouldn't even exist absent governments giving them right of way for their lines. Not to mention the Sweet Deals they have with the local politicians to keep out competition. Thats why Comcast has a virtual monopoly in all too many parts of the country. It would be much better to keep government interference out of this, to the greatest extent possible.
No it doesn't. There is no such thing as "free of control". SOMEONE is always in control. Either companies or the Government. You Americans really have to get it out of your heads that a Government is something like an Alien landed on Earth. The Government of a Democracy IS the people. You yourself control it. Or at least it should if you are not to lazy to take the responsibilty. I rather leave control to a democratic sanctioned government of the people than the random wantoness of greedy company managers at EVERY DAY.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
First of all, Congratulations for one of the most entertaining headlines lately. It's interesting to see the problems US American gamers deal with. In Europe (Germany) there are no bandwidht limitations (yet). Instead companies advertise new bandwidth records to get more customers. I also find it interesting that in the States it seems an either or deal when it comes to free-market vs government control. It's either total freedom (for who?) which in the end results in the customers being bereft of their rights when dealing with companies, or it is government influence, which apparently results in censorship, surveillance and loss of privacy. There is a third way, government control of quality and service, and thus, a protection of customer rights. This however, seems ti get lost more and more.
Your "third way" is just an open invitation to government interference. Keep in mind that Comcast and the rest have a LOT more money than we do to make "contributions" to the politicians who would make any of those new laws. The interesting thing that many people forget... Comcast and other such, wouldn't even exist absent governments giving them right of way for their lines. Not to mention the Sweet Deals they have with the local politicians to keep out competition. Thats why Comcast has a virtual monopoly in all too many parts of the country. It would be much better to keep government interference out of this, to the greatest extent possible.
No it doesn't. There is no such thing as "free of control". SOMEONE is always in control. Either companies or the Government. You Americans really have to get it out of your heads that a Government is something like an Alien landed on Earth. The Government of a Democracy IS the people. You yourself control it. Or at least it should if you are not to lazy to take the responsibilty. I rather leave control to a democratic sanctioned government of the people than the random wantoness of greedy company managers at EVERY DAY.
<Rolls eyes> Sure the government of a democracy IS the people... You've just mistaken which people that is. Its the people(banks/corporations) who *own* the politicians. We have a government of, by and for THOSE people. The rest is only illusion and personal delusion. Keep in mind the two basic realities of voting(the foundation of your democracy). One, "I don't care who votes, as long as I pick the candidates". Two, "those who cast the votes determine nothing. Those who *count* the votes determine *everything*." Power corrupts, and the more centralized and concentrated it is, the faster and more deeply it corrupts.
That central fact explains the wide spread corruption and dysfunction typical of government in general. That is why we need as LITTLE government interference in the internet as possible. Its been the relative lack of government involvement that has allowed the internet to evolve into its current state. Sure it started as a government funded project, but it has evolved far, FAR beyond anything that government could have ever imagined(in their wildest nightmares...^^). What is needed is to deal with this at the local level. Pressure needs to be applied to local politicians to alter the Sweet Deals they have made with Comcast and its ilk. They are most vulnerable during the mid point of an election cycle. Especially in tight races.
People really need to get out of this thought that Government should control everything. Government has no cash of it's own. All cash Govenment uses comes out of OUR pocket.
Your cash is the law. If you are unhappy with service, STOP paying them and gather others to resist.
We stopped it in Rochester NY when Time Warner tried to put the limited bandwidth usage on our accounts. We had mass protests, and all threatened to switch to another service even if it ment slower access. Time Warner/AOL caved, and recanted. Our service stands in our victory of RESISTANCE of what we do not agree with.
Socilist Government control is NEVER the answer we want in America.
WE THE PEOPLE have the power. Let free markets work.
Government control is SOCIALISM. Government has no Constitutional authority other then to protect our RIGHTS and our land.
O and for those who don't realize, America is not EVER intended to be a Democracy. Democracy is a scam as it is easy to fool 50% of population.
America is a Constitutional REPUBLIC. A representative Government. Meaning we vote for people to represent us. Our Constitution garantees us our Rights. Even if 51% of the people want to take your rights, they can't as your rights are protected by the Constitution.
Well, atm our Constitution is being raped by criminals twisting this country into the next Fascist Reich.
Does the U.S.A not have an equivalent body to the UK's "Monopolies & Mergers Comission" ?
Sounds like there is too little competition in certain areas of business which is what has created an unfair customer environment, an awful lot of posts seem to indicate that comcast has far too lage a market share & choice of ISP provider is essentially in a stranglehold.
High amounts of competition is usually the antidote for unfair business practices.
Some senstors are trying to force IsP to be more fair and the FCC is on net nutrality for the same thing. Check MaximumPC.com theve covered it quite a bit. The sad thing is all these ISP say "we have a infestructure in par with the rest of the world" but our broadband pentration is 17th in the world, Switzerland is higher then us! And then Comcast (who put in caps and throtting) have their profits up like 200%
Serious it's a sad thing when i can go to japan, get 3 times the speed at half the price and no throtteling and were supose to be "equal"
Does the U.S.A not have an equivalent body to the UK's "Monopolies & Mergers Comission" ? Sounds like there is too little competition in certain areas of business which is what has created an unfair customer environment, an awful lot of posts seem to indicate that comcast has far too lage a market share & choice of ISP provider is essentially in a stranglehold. High amounts of competition is usually the antidote for unfair business practices.
One of the things that really drives me crazy about Europeans (particuarly Brits) is that they just don't get how large a country the US is. The amount of money it would cost a new company to create a new fiber-optic network to become a high speed ISP provider is mind boggling. Look at the same chart I linked above. The population of Great Brittain and Northern Ireland is 8 times more dense than it is in the US. Even if you throw out Alaska it's not even close.
Now is your proposal that the existing network owners are forced to lease their networks to other companies? That's something that they did with our long distance telephone providers 25 years ago. In the end it didn't help the consumers at all.
Does the U.S.A not have an equivalent body to the UK's "Monopolies & Mergers Comission" ? Sounds like there is too little competition in certain areas of business which is what has created an unfair customer environment, an awful lot of posts seem to indicate that comcast has far too lage a market share & choice of ISP provider is essentially in a stranglehold. High amounts of competition is usually the antidote for unfair business practices.
Like the FDA is supposed to be "protecting" consumers, but instead has driven the cost of new drugs and health care technologies in to Low Earth Orbit? If such a department or agency existed, rest assured it would be staffed by government appointees(seeking high paying employment in those industries after leaving office) and former members of the industry being "regulated"(the revolving door syndrome). The so called "public service commissions" are a sick joke because of that.
Comments
come live in Australia, The no1 place in the Western world for sub par internet
my current plan (there are better ones out there):
10g per month (onpeak) 100g (offpeak , recently changed from unlimited). Max download speed is roughly 250kb/s and upload is sub dial up speeds.
And for all that (and line rental) your looking at $40 a month. Oh and if i go over its 10c per mb
MMO wish list:
-Changeable worlds
-Solid non level based game
-Sharks with lasers attached to their heads
Your "third way" is just an open invitation to government interference. Keep in mind that Comcast and the rest have a LOT more money than we do to make "contributions" to the politicians who would make any of those new laws. The interesting thing that many people forget... Comcast and other such, wouldn't even exist absent governments giving them right of way for their lines. Not to mention the Sweet Deals they have with the local politicians to keep out competition. Thats why Comcast has a virtual monopoly in all too many parts of the country. It would be much better to keep government interference out of this, to the greatest extent possible.
I can see how and why you would think that, but that is simply not the way things work in other places. Please do not misunderstand me, people are still corrupt and largely selfish, but we just do not do things that way.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
WTF? No subscription fee?
I have read about this elsewhere and I have a hard time believing that companies like Comcast and At&t will get far. To insight the Rage of any “Nerd”, “Geek” or “Script Kiddy” would be down right idiotic. After any companies attempting this are repeatedly hacked and get a taste of their customers displeasure they will think twice about doing something so utterly stupid again. One angry hacker may not be enough but when they are targeted by seven thousand or more pissed off code savvy intellectuals they will fold and revert to the old system. Although I would hate for it to come to that It would be a show down of epic proportions…
We know nothing and stand in Ah of that which we can not see, completely mesmerized at that which we do not know and that which we could never possibly understand. It is infuriating - K.O.S
You don't understand how these corporate types think. ALL they care about is making the *quarterly* report look sweet. Literally. As for the actions mentioned, that would get the FBI and FatherLand Security involved. Then things would get VERY ugly for those involved. Comcast really doesn't care in the least about its victims...err..."customers". They've spent years and years getting away with their antics. It was only when they annoyed the FCC itself that they had any problems, and even then they are fighting the FCC in court. Just so long as they have a lock on millions upon millions of people with little or no competition, nothing is going to change for the better.
I am uncertain as are other posters as to how this related to online gaming. While our use of MMO’s uses far more bandwith than someone just sending emails we are small fry in the world of data transfer. I am not just talking about peer to peer file transfer. Social networks allow the sharing of videos etc.
If there is concern about usage levels that is where they should be looking.
Usa internet is sub-par with old copper wires moving most of the traffic still. They are having problems with no real actors on the marked wanting to upgrade, and most just sucking off the old tit and making oodles of money doing that.
Last thing, to the guy with the avatar linked to real person...dude ..reality check please.
Treating the internet as electricity, enforcing caps and charging for use is really quite ridiculous, and in my eyes only a way to apply an already existing business model to a new product. Logically you would be paying for access to the internet, and the speed at which you can access it at would be the price factor. Adding caps only reinforces the impression that 'someone' with a crappy net-infrastructure are trying to sucker in more customers than they can handle.
I'm sorry but I have to jump in here.
I don't know what all the fuss is about. I live in Australia. There is no such thing as a non capped internet connection. The average speed in Australia is 1500/512 and the average download cap is 12 GB.
I myself am on a 1500/512 connection with a 24 GB download limit before I get capped to 56k speed (that's the same as dial up for the new comers). I never reach that limit. We have 4 computers on the same connection all playing online games MMO's and FPS almost all day and we only ever use up half our download limit. You wont reach your limits if you don't spend all your afk time downloading junk.
If it happens its not the end of the world. If we can handle it why cant you?
Oh Noes Its The Forum Police
Yes, let us all sit down and eat our ration of bread and water and like it, the slaves that we are and should be.
Some senstors are trying to force IsP to be more fair and the FCC is on net nutrality for the same thing. Check MaximumPC.com theve covered it quite a bit. The sad thing is all these ISP say "we have a infestructure in par with the rest of the world" but our broadband pentration is 17th in the world, Switzerland is higher then us!
And then Comcast (who put in caps and throtting) have their profits up like 200%
Serious it's a sad thing when i can go to japan, get 3 times the speed at half the price and no throtteling and were supose to be "equal"
Simply because your population(and ours) allows the politicians to continue to be bought by the corporations, does that make it right? At what point does the push back happen? What form does it take when it eventually happens? History demonstrates that it always happens, and that the longer it takes, the more "energetic" that push back becomes. Simply because the ruling Aussie corporations have a strangle hold on your internet, doesn't mean that it has to stay that way forever.
In terms of the internet infrastructure(and the investments required) absent government intervention to protect their corporate masters, many of us would have many more options than we currently do. The key(as in most mass societies) is numbers, and technology. Both can be used to apply pressure to those in positions of power to make other decisions(if its demonstrated to be in their own self interest...). But until enough people grow tired of being controlled with fear and intimidation tactics, little change for the better will happen.
I can see how and why you would think that, but that is simply not the way things work in other places. Please do not misunderstand me, people are still corrupt and largely selfish, but we just do not do things that way.
This isn't other places. We have the finest politicians corporate money can produce. They don't know anything but the want to control everything, They're not bad people just products of a system gone amok.
Sorry, but I must disagree with part of your above. Yes, the power system is almost totally controlled by the banks and corporations(the Bail Out for Bankers, AIG and GM demonstrate that), yet those politicians who have allowed themselves to be purchased like commodities aren't "bad people"??
(boggle).
Look at their actions, not their words. One of the FEW politicians whose actions and words match up is Ron Paul(R-Texas). If we had even one hundred and fifty more like him spread through out the congress, little of this nonsense would ever see the light of day, let alone get enacted into law. The best we can hope for is to keep governments corrupting influence out of the internet to the greatest extent possible. That and apply pressure on key politicians to alter the Sweet Deals they make with the likes of Comcast and its ilk.
Yes, let us all sit down and eat our ration of bread and water and like it, the slaves that we are and should be.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen. [Samuel Adams]
You don't understand how these corporate types think. ALL they care about is making the *quarterly* report look sweet. Literally. As for the actions mentioned, that would get the FBI and FatherLand Security involved. Then things would get VERY ugly for those involved. Comcast really doesn't care in the least about its victims...err..."customers". They've spent years and years getting away with their antics. It was only when they annoyed the FCC itself that they had any problems, and even then they are fighting the FCC in court. Just so long as they have a lock on millions upon millions of people with little or no competition, nothing is going to change for the better.
Hah. I understand how those greedy cooperate bastards think. (Mostly cause I’m a greedy corporate bastard…..) It could get the Gov involved and to stop any Government involvement they may just switch back instead of dealing with the trouble of being regulated. That’s just one possibility (and an unlikely one at that..) It just depends on how many people decide not to be” Victims“ , Sweet.
We know nothing and stand in Ah of that which we can not see, completely mesmerized at that which we do not know and that which we could never possibly understand. It is infuriating - K.O.S
I can see how and why you would think that, but that is simply not the way things work in other places. Please do not misunderstand me, people are still corrupt and largely selfish, but we just do not do things that way.
This isn't other places. We have the finest politicians corporate money can produce. They don't know anything but the want to control everything, They're not bad people just products of a system gone amok.
Sorry, but I must disagree with part of your above. Yes, the power system is almost totally controlled by the banks and corporations(the Bail Out for Bankers, AIG and GM demonstrate that), yet those politicians who have allowed themselves to be purchased like commodities aren't "bad people"??
Look at their actions, not their words. One of the FEW politicians whose actions and words match up is Ron Paul(R-Texas). If we had even one hundred and fifty more like him spread through out the congress, little of this nonsense would ever see the light of day, let alone get enacted into law. The best we can hope for is to keep governments corrupting influence out of the internet to the greatest extent possible. That and apply pressure on key politicians to alter the Sweet Deals they make with the likes of Comcast and its ilk.
I still disagree with your assessment of the third way, but I think more people in this thread should be listening to you. The third way would work, and be lovely, but only in a society with a government that cannot be controlled by corporations in the way many countries are.
Of course, I have no solution, but I do not think anger is the way to go about doing things. But then, asking politely is not going to do the trick either. These people are making gobs of money by doing things that are exactly counter to the public interest in the name of business. It is a difficult problem, and I honestly can think of no solutions for you guys.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
WTF? No subscription fee?
Come to Iceland if you think your connetions are bad... Then add that you are in middle of nowhere miles from the MMORPG.servers. Then add a Bandwith out of the country that is extra limited (while internal net is fast) and you get ... Unplayable MMOS 90% of the time. Normal package loss out of the country is 40-50% so basicly disconnect every 5 mins on peak time.
Now..... Thats in Reykjavík... try to be out in the middle of nowhere (thats where Im now). We are actually paying like 600 USD per month for a 500 kb/s connection. Yes... Im serious. Alot better than last year tho - then we had 125kb/s bandwith and were paying per minute charge for it - TWICE as much as normal phonecalls. Normal internet bill for just browsing was like 400 USD.
Try to play MMOs in these conditions and you will make love to your internet every night.
I am not sure where this talk about broadband getting slower. Comcast keeps making my line faster every year for the same price. As far as Broadband penetration, have you ever seen the size of America? Obviously much easier in Japan to give it to everyone when they live a country the size of Texas.
This is what comes of sitting on our lazy backsides and letting net neutrality slip through our fingers. There are now cable monopolies across our nation where deals have been struck so that no competitor is allowed in. They are not made public and slowly over time the bandwidth allowance per account is being restructured.
Other countries pay more they reason so we may soon as well. I doubt if the big ISP companies are concerned for the gaming industry.
Your "third way" is just an open invitation to government interference. Keep in mind that Comcast and the rest have a LOT more money than we do to make "contributions" to the politicians who would make any of those new laws. The interesting thing that many people forget... Comcast and other such, wouldn't even exist absent governments giving them right of way for their lines. Not to mention the Sweet Deals they have with the local politicians to keep out competition. Thats why Comcast has a virtual monopoly in all too many parts of the country. It would be much better to keep government interference out of this, to the greatest extent possible.
No it doesn't. There is no such thing as "free of control". SOMEONE is always in control. Either companies or the Government. You Americans really have to get it out of your heads that a Government is something like an Alien landed on Earth. The Government of a Democracy IS the people. You yourself control it. Or at least it should if you are not to lazy to take the responsibilty. I rather leave control to a democratic sanctioned government of the people than the random wantoness of greedy company managers at EVERY DAY.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Your "third way" is just an open invitation to government interference. Keep in mind that Comcast and the rest have a LOT more money than we do to make "contributions" to the politicians who would make any of those new laws. The interesting thing that many people forget... Comcast and other such, wouldn't even exist absent governments giving them right of way for their lines. Not to mention the Sweet Deals they have with the local politicians to keep out competition. Thats why Comcast has a virtual monopoly in all too many parts of the country. It would be much better to keep government interference out of this, to the greatest extent possible.
No it doesn't. There is no such thing as "free of control". SOMEONE is always in control. Either companies or the Government. You Americans really have to get it out of your heads that a Government is something like an Alien landed on Earth. The Government of a Democracy IS the people. You yourself control it. Or at least it should if you are not to lazy to take the responsibilty. I rather leave control to a democratic sanctioned government of the people than the random wantoness of greedy company managers at EVERY DAY.
<Rolls eyes> Sure the government of a democracy IS the people... You've just mistaken which people that is. Its the people(banks/corporations) who *own* the politicians. We have a government of, by and for THOSE people. The rest is only illusion and personal delusion. Keep in mind the two basic realities of voting(the foundation of your democracy). One, "I don't care who votes, as long as I pick the candidates". Two, "those who cast the votes determine nothing. Those who *count* the votes determine *everything*." Power corrupts, and the more centralized and concentrated it is, the faster and more deeply it corrupts.
That central fact explains the wide spread corruption and dysfunction typical of government in general. That is why we need as LITTLE government interference in the internet as possible. Its been the relative lack of government involvement that has allowed the internet to evolve into its current state. Sure it started as a government funded project, but it has evolved far, FAR beyond anything that government could have ever imagined(in their wildest nightmares...^^). What is needed is to deal with this at the local level. Pressure needs to be applied to local politicians to alter the Sweet Deals they have made with Comcast and its ilk. They are most vulnerable during the mid point of an election cycle. Especially in tight races.
People really need to get out of this thought that Government should control everything. Government has no cash of it's own. All cash Govenment uses comes out of OUR pocket.
Your cash is the law. If you are unhappy with service, STOP paying them and gather others to resist.
We stopped it in Rochester NY when Time Warner tried to put the limited bandwidth usage on our accounts. We had mass protests, and all threatened to switch to another service even if it ment slower access. Time Warner/AOL caved, and recanted. Our service stands in our victory of RESISTANCE of what we do not agree with.
Socilist Government control is NEVER the answer we want in America.
WE THE PEOPLE have the power. Let free markets work.
Government control is SOCIALISM. Government has no Constitutional authority other then to protect our RIGHTS and our land.
O and for those who don't realize, America is not EVER intended to be a Democracy. Democracy is a scam as it is easy to fool 50% of population.
America is a Constitutional REPUBLIC. A representative Government. Meaning we vote for people to represent us. Our Constitution garantees us our Rights. Even if 51% of the people want to take your rights, they can't as your rights are protected by the Constitution.
Well, atm our Constitution is being raped by criminals twisting this country into the next Fascist Reich.
SHOHADAKU
Does the U.S.A not have an equivalent body to the UK's "Monopolies & Mergers Comission" ?
Sounds like there is too little competition in certain areas of business which is what has created an unfair customer environment, an awful lot of posts seem to indicate that comcast has far too lage a market share & choice of ISP provider is essentially in a stranglehold.
High amounts of competition is usually the antidote for unfair business practices.
http://www.mongabay.com/igapo/world_statistics_by_area.htm
The US is over 200 times the size of Switzerland. Try to compare apples and apples when making analogies.
One of the things that really drives me crazy about Europeans (particuarly Brits) is that they just don't get how large a country the US is. The amount of money it would cost a new company to create a new fiber-optic network to become a high speed ISP provider is mind boggling. Look at the same chart I linked above. The population of Great Brittain and Northern Ireland is 8 times more dense than it is in the US. Even if you throw out Alaska it's not even close.
Now is your proposal that the existing network owners are forced to lease their networks to other companies? That's something that they did with our long distance telephone providers 25 years ago. In the end it didn't help the consumers at all.
Like the FDA is supposed to be "protecting" consumers, but instead has driven the cost of new drugs and health care technologies in to Low Earth Orbit? If such a department or agency existed, rest assured it would be staffed by government appointees(seeking high paying employment in those industries after leaving office) and former members of the industry being "regulated"(the revolving door syndrome). The so called "public service commissions" are a sick joke because of that.