The OP is asking a stupid question akin to 'is WoW a hardcore action game?'. The only people who might've thought Dragon Age would be an open ended RPG were people who spend more time waiting for games than playing them.
Nope, Dragon Age Origins is a linear box that feels less like a RPG and more like a freaking movie. I think BioWare have lost the true rpg feeling in their quest for perfect story and freaking cut scenes. The world is the most linear world yet by bioware it's that bad.
Their is a game called drakensang and in many ways it beats Dragon Age by a mile.
Nope infact its pretey linear. The only none linear RPG is morrowind, end of story. Nothing beats it. Dragon age RPG of the decade, my ass.
What about Oblivion? Seemed pretty "open" to me, though you did follow a certain story line.
I like linear. The problem with both Oblivion and Morrowind is that they gear the level of the content to you. You can basically go straight to the end game if you want. And... you can NEVER own creatures. I like to know that if I go back to such-and-such an area, I will kick @$$. Or if I go forward to such-and-such a place, I will get my @$$ kicked. You never really feel like you're getting any better in those games. I know Oblivion got such good reviews... but I have to say, I just got so bored. Even though I REALLY wanted to love it. JMHO. Cheers.
There are a bunch of mods out there that fixes this in both ways.
Some mobs will remain static and while in dungeons the deeper you go the more epic they get.
NEVER EVER play Oblivion/Morrowind vanilla. It's like playing FA3 without any mods.
Just a sandboxish dull game. The real love of the sandboxish games comes from the modding community which do everything from nude patches to full out town conversions (There are many where you can take a town over and run it ALA sim style).
I like linear. The problem with both Oblivion and Morrowind is that they gear the level of the content to you.
Apparently you've never actually played Morrowind. It does not gear the level of the content to you. That's Oblivion. And, I highly suggest a mod to remove that. There's a few that will do it.
Nope. I have played Morrowind. It's just my failing memory that is suspect I'm afraid. Oblivion seems to have overwritten that memory. However, very interesting to hear about the mod for oblivion. I WILL try that.
Probably a little late for this but I would also suggest Francesco's leveled creatures/items mod
It's also a bit modular so you don't have to add anything other than the leveled creatures as his mod, after all this time, does have other stuff.
I dont' like OOO as it adds too much for my taste. There were some really nice things in it, especially not being able to open a chest or lock until you dealt with combat. however I also found that if somehow a mob "somewhere" got scent of me, even if he couldn't get to me, I couldnt' open anything until I got to him.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Just finished DA. 90 hours. Excellent game. Yes, its linear. I found out I went to Denerim earlier than you were supposed to, but besides that, you have 1 or 2 choices in where you can go next. You don't just run off, since theres no open world to explore. You can only go where the story lets you go. Fallout3 and Oblivion are wide open RPGs. KOTOR, Mass Effect and DA are certainly not.
If DA had an open world to explore with more random side quests like Fallout3 it would've went from awesome to insane. TO be honest I wouldn't have minded having to actually adventure to all the major hubs in the world, fighting Darkspawn along the way, bumping into poor souls who had side quests, ect. Teleporting around once you reached a hub would've fleshed out the world MUCH better and made it feel bigger. I was waiting to switch to another map sometime but it never happened. Made the world seem small.
Still fun. Best RPG I've played in recent memory for me at least. If F3 had a better story they'd be equal.
Far from that, its a simple scripted world with extremely small areas/maps and endless loadscreens biggest failor of year award it should get.
But the mass is brainwashed and think oh bioware/EA then its good:(
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009..... In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.
Far from that, its a simple scripted world with extremely small areas/maps and endless loadscreens biggest failor of year award it should get.
But the mass is brainwashed and think oh bioware/EA then its good:(
Or another opinion, it is not trying to be a world but is trying to present a game with a story. I don't support the "masses are brainwashed" comment as I'm pretty sure that that can be easily turned around on anyone.
Also, I don't see anyone complaining that the Doom games were open worlds, or half life or Diablo? Dark Messiah wasn't an open world. Neverwinter Nights... no... Baldur's gate didn't feel like an open world.
It seems to me that it should be ok to have a game that doesn't have an open world if that is not the point of the game.
space invaders didn't have an open world either and it's a classic.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Nope infact its pretey linear. The only none linear RPG is morrowind, end of story. Nothing beats it. Dragon age RPG of the decade, my ass.
I agree 100% with you!!!
Its more like Failor of the year/decade its mainly made for console and its 30% actual playing 70%pause/loadscreen/dialgue.
Only good thing about game is how you see story unfold by listend to npc's and cutscene.
Mob AI is simple most maps contains few mobs that stand still wait to be slaughtred end boss is not exciting i say it failed misrable.
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009..... In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.
No, that isn't really what the game is trying to create. However do many of the npcs have a reason to be there and some kind of personality but Dragonage is more close to a movie.
You do have choices, will you help the mages or kill them and so on but like a movie it have a beginning and an end, and some of the scenes are something you must play through.
But to be honest are there few games that is even close to a living breathing world, MMOs or sologames. The elder scroll series is probably the best on that part, npcs go on their lifes no matter if the player is there or not. However does it still have rather stereotype character there too, making a good living breathing world is close to impossible.
Dragonage is however a rather fun game to spend a few days in. It is really small compared to a MMO but I like many of the npcs and some of the story is rather good but not exceptional. Closest MMO is Guildwars.
Far from that, its a simple scripted world with extremely small areas/maps and endless loadscreens biggest failor of year award it should get.
But the mass is brainwashed and think oh bioware/EA then its good:(
A loading screen means nothing if the game itself is good.
DA is played for the story, the chars and not bcs there is an wide open world with hours of travelling between locations.
Vanguard at launch had a wide open world as everyone cried for and suddenly it wasnt that good to walk or ride half an hour to another location...no developer should ever following again the cries for more travel as it means nothing...exploring is another cup of tea...
"Torquemada... do not implore him for compassion. Torquemada... do not beg him for forgiveness. Torquemada... do not ask him for mercy. Let's face it, you can't Torquemada anything!"
Dragon age is a quality game but missing several important options.
Why can't I choose to fall back to Ostagar?
Why can't I choose to get the Qunari to arrive early and save the day (and take it over)?
Why can't I choose to JOIN the dark spawn or become the new host of the archdemon?
These games typically branch at ridiculous levels at the introduction and then have only one gameplay option for the endgame while driving the character on nearly completely linear path the entire time past their character's introduction for the gameplay. Quality game. Reasonable story. No significant choices that greatly change the story's direction during gameplay, in my opinion.
I was hoping for a bigger and better Neverwinter Nights 2 than the highly linear game that was delivered. At least we are not to the point of Final Fantasy linear and it doesn't look like the industry will go in that direction.
Forever looking for employment. Life is rather dull without it.
Dragon age is a quality game but missing several important options. Why can't I choose to fall back to Ostagar? Why can't I choose to get the Qunari to arrive early and save the day (and take it over)? Why can't I choose to JOIN the dark spawn or become the new host of the archdemon? These games typically branch at ridiculous levels at the introduction and then have only one gameplay option for the endgame while driving the character on nearly completely linear path the entire time past their character's introduction for the gameplay. Quality game. Reasonable story. No significant choices that greatly change the story's direction during gameplay, in my opinion. I was hoping for a bigger and better Neverwinter Nights 2 than the highly linear game that was delivered. At least we are not to the point of Final Fantasy linear and it doesn't look like the industry will go in that direction.
it is just economics in the work besides hardware limitations. Bioware chose the cinematic option, which does allow a very immersive way in the story they got. the downside is that you can not cover every possible option. i have spend more than 200 hours playing it and i do see some loose ends in the story but the simple truth is: if you want a complete breathing world to immerse in then the development would take forever with a very large team and the result would require a full server harddisk to store the result.
i have played Oblivion IV the elder scrolls and i also had a blast there but you have to imagine the cinematics in your own brain, something which many people have problems with. the simple truth is that most gamers want a more or less railroaded story because their imagination is rather limited, give them freedom and they have no clue what to do with it. at the other side of the medal there are those with plenty of imagination but the it techniques can never catch up with them. i did prey on a whole town as a vampire in oblivion but i was kind of disappointed to see those "new vampires" still walked in daylight like nothing happened ...however if the game had to be as realistic as can be then i would have had a full harddisk just for one game.
no gaming company can make a profit if their projects have to be that huge while charging the standard game rates. at best some modders add some more possibilities later on ... those guys do not depend on that to make a living though.
I've read quite a bit about DA and although,it may not be a,"living,breathing world" it still seems like a pretty good game. I've been trying to get my hands on it since its release and I just got it today,can't wait to install it!=]
Nope infact its pretey linear. The only none linear RPG is morrowind, end of story. Nothing beats it. Dragon age RPG of the decade, my ass.
Well, Dragon Age is superior than some of the last Bioware's releases and it is a good game for sure, but the hype the game has in some places (especially on this site) is huge.
In some other places Demon's Souls is getting more attention.
Demon's Souls has a "living world" some unique and very expressive online features and is probably the most challenging and unique game of the last years...
No its a scripted game having said that it is a good game, lots of fun plenty of ways to play it, the mod community is starting to put out some intresting mods. All in all if you have the cash its worth it I suggest PC over Console for the mod community side of it and its a bit long to rent and play through I would say.
I personaly love the game, I have seen a few try to compare it to obliveon which it is not more like Baulders Gate (linear story, few branching points with minor impacts on the over all story) not that that is a bad thing at all 1 linear story of such quality is well worth the price imo but do go in thinking you can twist the fate of the game to your liking your impact on the story is more about the small details not the outcome i.e. who is in what positon, to some point who lives who dies and when, etc.
Far from that, its a simple scripted world with extremely small areas/maps and endless loadscreens biggest failor of year award it should get.
But the mass is brainwashed and think oh bioware/EA then its good:(
Ya that must be it, couldnt possibly be that its a great game...oh no wait its a great game, failure of the decade goes to your posts here.
If you think dragon age is failure of the year/decade then you need to play more than 1 game per year/decade.
LOL love Evasia post is funny, being an EA game just about made me not try it, I and most gamers I know shy away from EA so i dont think the mass saw EA and said it must be good even my 50 year old father dispises EA games but this particular one is well worth a play. The game is based on areas with loading screens yes, the loading screens however are not long or at least I didn't see them as such, i do notice that the longer I play in a single session that the game tends to take longer to load, restarting the game corrects this for me only affects the old of my 2 systems so I think its fair to say its not the fault of the game. "Simple scripted world"? yes its scripted no its not simple take some time even in research and explore the various options you have presented to you, no you will not change the major outcome of the game what you affect is the details of the story which is what they where aiming at I do belive. Fact of the matter is Dragon Age is the best stand-alone story driven RPG I have played in some time I cant really find a notable fault with it other than perhaps the lack of any kind of multi player but given the story I understand why there is no mulit-player . . . I would like to see a story driven RPG like this with at least 2-3 person multiplayer as an option where each player could indapendantly impact the details of the story,.
I can never win this arguement your eather fan of this game or not its a very simple game and mass like it well good for you:)
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009..... In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.
Comments
The OP is asking a stupid question akin to 'is WoW a hardcore action game?'. The only people who might've thought Dragon Age would be an open ended RPG were people who spend more time waiting for games than playing them.
Good fun game, but kind of interweaving linear threads rather than organic.
The only RPG I've played in years that gave me that organic feeling was Fallout 3.
Nope, Dragon Age Origins is a linear box that feels less like a RPG and more like a freaking movie. I think BioWare have lost the true rpg feeling in their quest for perfect story and freaking cut scenes. The world is the most linear world yet by bioware it's that bad.
Their is a game called drakensang and in many ways it beats Dragon Age by a mile.
Download the free demo..
www.videogamer.com/pc/drakensang_the_dark_eye/download/demo.html#
Really! that's not right at all, Gothic is a non linear RPG series.
You are right about Dragon Age though,it's way over hyped and should not be getting game of the year,that should go to "The Saboteur" imo
What about Oblivion? Seemed pretty "open" to me, though you did follow a certain story line.
I like linear. The problem with both Oblivion and Morrowind is that they gear the level of the content to you. You can basically go straight to the end game if you want. And... you can NEVER own creatures. I like to know that if I go back to such-and-such an area, I will kick @$$. Or if I go forward to such-and-such a place, I will get my @$$ kicked. You never really feel like you're getting any better in those games. I know Oblivion got such good reviews... but I have to say, I just got so bored. Even though I REALLY wanted to love it. JMHO. Cheers.
There are a bunch of mods out there that fixes this in both ways.
Some mobs will remain static and while in dungeons the deeper you go the more epic they get.
NEVER EVER play Oblivion/Morrowind vanilla. It's like playing FA3 without any mods.
Just a sandboxish dull game. The real love of the sandboxish games comes from the modding community which do everything from nude patches to full out town conversions (There are many where you can take a town over and run it ALA sim style).
Apparently you've never actually played Morrowind. It does not gear the level of the content to you. That's Oblivion. And, I highly suggest a mod to remove that. There's a few that will do it.
Nope. I have played Morrowind. It's just my failing memory that is suspect I'm afraid. Oblivion seems to have overwritten that memory. However, very interesting to hear about the mod for oblivion. I WILL try that.
Probably a little late for this but I would also suggest Francesco's leveled creatures/items mod
It's also a bit modular so you don't have to add anything other than the leveled creatures as his mod, after all this time, does have other stuff.
I dont' like OOO as it adds too much for my taste. There were some really nice things in it, especially not being able to open a chest or lock until you dealt with combat. however I also found that if somehow a mob "somewhere" got scent of me, even if he couldn't get to me, I couldnt' open anything until I got to him.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Just finished DA. 90 hours. Excellent game. Yes, its linear. I found out I went to Denerim earlier than you were supposed to, but besides that, you have 1 or 2 choices in where you can go next. You don't just run off, since theres no open world to explore. You can only go where the story lets you go. Fallout3 and Oblivion are wide open RPGs. KOTOR, Mass Effect and DA are certainly not.
If DA had an open world to explore with more random side quests like Fallout3 it would've went from awesome to insane. TO be honest I wouldn't have minded having to actually adventure to all the major hubs in the world, fighting Darkspawn along the way, bumping into poor souls who had side quests, ect. Teleporting around once you reached a hub would've fleshed out the world MUCH better and made it feel bigger. I was waiting to switch to another map sometime but it never happened. Made the world seem small.
Still fun. Best RPG I've played in recent memory for me at least. If F3 had a better story they'd be equal.
Far from that, its a simple scripted world with extremely small areas/maps and endless loadscreens biggest failor of year award it should get.
But the mass is brainwashed and think oh bioware/EA then its good:(
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009.....
In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.
Far from that, its a simple scripted world with extremely small areas/maps and endless loadscreens biggest failor of year award it should get.
But the mass is brainwashed and think oh bioware/EA then its good:(
Or another opinion, it is not trying to be a world but is trying to present a game with a story. I don't support the "masses are brainwashed" comment as I'm pretty sure that that can be easily turned around on anyone.
Also, I don't see anyone complaining that the Doom games were open worlds, or half life or Diablo? Dark Messiah wasn't an open world. Neverwinter Nights... no... Baldur's gate didn't feel like an open world.
It seems to me that it should be ok to have a game that doesn't have an open world if that is not the point of the game.
space invaders didn't have an open world either and it's a classic.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
I agree 100% with you!!!
Its more like Failor of the year/decade its mainly made for console and its 30% actual playing 70%pause/loadscreen/dialgue.
Only good thing about game is how you see story unfold by listend to npc's and cutscene.
Mob AI is simple most maps contains few mobs that stand still wait to be slaughtred end boss is not exciting i say it failed misrable.
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009.....
In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.
I agree 100% with you!!!
Its more like Failor of the year/decade its mainly made for console and its 30% actual playing 70%pause/loadscreen/dialgue.
Only good thing about game is how you see story unfold by listend to npc's and cutscene.
Mob AI is simple most maps contains few mobs that stand still wait to be slaughtred end boss is not exciting i say it failed misrable.
KOTOR was the exact same as Dragon age and KOTOR is one of the best RPGs ever created. Nothing in the title RPG says it has to be an open world.
+1
A game when you can't go from place A to place B just by walking in the nature is not a "living breathing world"
Have you ever tried getting to Japan from California "just by walking in the nature".
Give us a post when the pressure at the bottom of the Pacific crushes you like an ant.
Alltern8 Blog | Star Wars Space Combat and The Old Republic | Cryptic Studios - A Pre Post-Mortem | Klingon Preview, STO's Monster Play
It's like riding in a rail cart through a decently pretty fantasy setting.
No, that isn't really what the game is trying to create. However do many of the npcs have a reason to be there and some kind of personality but Dragonage is more close to a movie.
You do have choices, will you help the mages or kill them and so on but like a movie it have a beginning and an end, and some of the scenes are something you must play through.
But to be honest are there few games that is even close to a living breathing world, MMOs or sologames. The elder scroll series is probably the best on that part, npcs go on their lifes no matter if the player is there or not. However does it still have rather stereotype character there too, making a good living breathing world is close to impossible.
Dragonage is however a rather fun game to spend a few days in. It is really small compared to a MMO but I like many of the npcs and some of the story is rather good but not exceptional. Closest MMO is Guildwars.
Far from that, its a simple scripted world with extremely small areas/maps and endless loadscreens biggest failor of year award it should get.
But the mass is brainwashed and think oh bioware/EA then its good:(
A loading screen means nothing if the game itself is good.
DA is played for the story, the chars and not bcs there is an wide open world with hours of travelling between locations.
Vanguard at launch had a wide open world as everyone cried for and suddenly it wasnt that good to walk or ride half an hour to another location...no developer should ever following again the cries for more travel as it means nothing...exploring is another cup of tea...
"Torquemada... do not implore him for compassion. Torquemada... do not beg him for forgiveness. Torquemada... do not ask him for mercy. Let's face it, you can't Torquemada anything!"
MWO Music Video - What does the Mech say: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FF6HYNqCDLI
Johnny Cash - The Man Comes Around: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0x2iwK0BKM
Far from that, its a simple scripted world with extremely small areas/maps and endless loadscreens biggest failor of year award it should get.
But the mass is brainwashed and think oh bioware/EA then its good:(
Ya that must be it, couldnt possibly be that its a great game...oh no wait its a great game, failure of the decade goes to your posts here.
If you think dragon age is failure of the year/decade then you need to play more than 1 game per year/decade.
Apparently stating the truth in my sig is "trolling"
Sig typo fixed thanks to an observant stragen001.
Dragon age is a quality game but missing several important options.
Why can't I choose to fall back to Ostagar?
Why can't I choose to get the Qunari to arrive early and save the day (and take it over)?
Why can't I choose to JOIN the dark spawn or become the new host of the archdemon?
These games typically branch at ridiculous levels at the introduction and then have only one gameplay option for the endgame while driving the character on nearly completely linear path the entire time past their character's introduction for the gameplay. Quality game. Reasonable story. No significant choices that greatly change the story's direction during gameplay, in my opinion.
I was hoping for a bigger and better Neverwinter Nights 2 than the highly linear game that was delivered. At least we are not to the point of Final Fantasy linear and it doesn't look like the industry will go in that direction.
Forever looking for employment. Life is rather dull without it.
it is just economics in the work besides hardware limitations. Bioware chose the cinematic option, which does allow a very immersive way in the story they got. the downside is that you can not cover every possible option. i have spend more than 200 hours playing it and i do see some loose ends in the story but the simple truth is: if you want a complete breathing world to immerse in then the development would take forever with a very large team and the result would require a full server harddisk to store the result.
i have played Oblivion IV the elder scrolls and i also had a blast there but you have to imagine the cinematics in your own brain, something which many people have problems with. the simple truth is that most gamers want a more or less railroaded story because their imagination is rather limited, give them freedom and they have no clue what to do with it. at the other side of the medal there are those with plenty of imagination but the it techniques can never catch up with them. i did prey on a whole town as a vampire in oblivion but i was kind of disappointed to see those "new vampires" still walked in daylight like nothing happened ...however if the game had to be as realistic as can be then i would have had a full harddisk just for one game.
no gaming company can make a profit if their projects have to be that huge while charging the standard game rates. at best some modders add some more possibilities later on ... those guys do not depend on that to make a living though.
No.
I've read quite a bit about DA and although,it may not be a,"living,breathing world" it still seems like a pretty good game. I've been trying to get my hands on it since its release and I just got it today,can't wait to install it!=]
Well, Dragon Age is superior than some of the last Bioware's releases and it is a good game for sure, but the hype the game has in some places (especially on this site) is huge.
In some other places Demon's Souls is getting more attention.
Demon's Souls has a "living world" some unique and very expressive online features and is probably the most challenging and unique game of the last years...
Best game of the year (2009) http://www.gamespot.com/best-of/game-of-the-year/index.html?page=2
Best RPG of the year (2009) http://www.gametrailers.com/video/best-role-playing-gt-goty/60211
Best new IP of the year (2009) http://www.gametrailers.com/video/best-new-gt-goty/60157
....
Its a very linear, scripted game. Nothing changes unless you make it change.
If you stood around in the game doing nothing, guess what? Nothing happens.
No its a scripted game having said that it is a good game, lots of fun plenty of ways to play it, the mod community is starting to put out some intresting mods. All in all if you have the cash its worth it I suggest PC over Console for the mod community side of it and its a bit long to rent and play through I would say.
I personaly love the game, I have seen a few try to compare it to obliveon which it is not more like Baulders Gate (linear story, few branching points with minor impacts on the over all story) not that that is a bad thing at all 1 linear story of such quality is well worth the price imo but do go in thinking you can twist the fate of the game to your liking your impact on the story is more about the small details not the outcome i.e. who is in what positon, to some point who lives who dies and when, etc.
Far from that, its a simple scripted world with extremely small areas/maps and endless loadscreens biggest failor of year award it should get.
But the mass is brainwashed and think oh bioware/EA then its good:(
Ya that must be it, couldnt possibly be that its a great game...oh no wait its a great game, failure of the decade goes to your posts here.
If you think dragon age is failure of the year/decade then you need to play more than 1 game per year/decade.
LOL love Evasia post is funny, being an EA game just about made me not try it, I and most gamers I know shy away from EA so i dont think the mass saw EA and said it must be good even my 50 year old father dispises EA games but this particular one is well worth a play. The game is based on areas with loading screens yes, the loading screens however are not long or at least I didn't see them as such, i do notice that the longer I play in a single session that the game tends to take longer to load, restarting the game corrects this for me only affects the old of my 2 systems so I think its fair to say its not the fault of the game. "Simple scripted world"? yes its scripted no its not simple take some time even in research and explore the various options you have presented to you, no you will not change the major outcome of the game what you affect is the details of the story which is what they where aiming at I do belive. Fact of the matter is Dragon Age is the best stand-alone story driven RPG I have played in some time I cant really find a notable fault with it other than perhaps the lack of any kind of multi player but given the story I understand why there is no mulit-player . . . I would like to see a story driven RPG like this with at least 2-3 person multiplayer as an option where each player could indapendantly impact the details of the story,.
I can never win this arguement your eather fan of this game or not its a very simple game and mass like it well good for you:)
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009.....
In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.