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General: Jennings: Morality, Controversy & Games
Dana
Member Posts: 2,415
Scott Jennings takes a lesson from Modern Warfare 2 and looks at how MMOs handle (or don't handle as the case may be) controversy.
The argument over whether an MMORPG is “just a game” or “more than a game” has raged for years – essentially, since they were invented. From a design aspect, this usually hinges on whether a given MMORPG is a theme park, like EverQuest, World of Warcraft, and the many games that play similarly, with a straight line to the “cheese”, or a virtual world, such as Ultima Online, EVE, or to a greater degree Second Life, that give you no goals save that which you make. And from a market perspective, the theme park has won, overwhelmingly. World of Warcraft’s position in the market alone sees to that, if nothing else.
Yet among the players of games, the argument rages, and even in wholly “theme park” games such as World of Warcraft. Players of these games can take them very seriously indeed, and they have every right to given the amount of time that character development can entail. “Guild drama,” after all, can be far more riveting to experience first-hand than any canned quest.
Read it all here.
Dana Massey
Formerly of MMORPG.com
Currently Lead Designer for Bit Trap Studios
Comments
Great, Great read. 1 of the better articles on this site.
About the "No Russian" Mission I never saw it as anything else then a game. Actually my friend and I got quite the rush out of it.
It's been ages since a mission like that has been seen in gaming, if it ever have.
I went crazy and blasted everything in my way, shooting the ones hurt but still trying to get away. I had fun, like I should have..
It's a game.
I wish for TOR to kinda bring some kind of "evil" decisions into a MMO.
BUT, since its Star Wars and Bioware, it won't get that much attention, like this game has, because we are used to it from them and it isn't "real".
We can then continue to argue if MW2 is "real" or not. In my opinion, It's not.
I think the article was a really good read, but there was one thing I didn't see addressed. I think a large portion of contraversy is heavily weighed in on relavence. MW2 takes place in a fictional history of today's world, using characters that COULD exist and highlighting issues that are seen almos everywhere these days (terrorism).
MMOs have used IPs that already greatly distance themselves from what is known reality. And I think this direction has been good for the genre, games that really have to tread carefully with controversy comes from their IP's likeness to reality. World War II online I'm sure has to tread quite carefully around nazi germany. Another game to look at would be Funcom's upcoming game the Secret World, where today's world is depicted as a world with a brooding underbelly. Names of people and the likeness of characters to real life politicians and celebrities will be something that will need to have an eye kept on it.
So Where can a line be drawn? And in a form of entertainment like video games, "it's just a game" doesn't change the way the concepts may be relavent to people's lives. Liken games to books or movies, have you ever read a book where you identified with the character, or saw something in a movie that you think happened or could have happened in your life? The same principles apply to video games, and although many worlds exist in realms beyond our own, they all have similarities to our experiences in life.
Slaughtering millions of orcs over my game time is different than raiding a poor orc village, killing all the women and children and lighting their settlement on fire. In MMOs, the character you are playing is always the hero. Even playing as the bad guys, there is always something noble going on, remember the controversy of WOW's Deathknight starting zone? You are essentially a terrorist killing innocent people, this is the closest you'll get to MW2's controversy.
My bad for the long winded response.
MMOs played: Horizons, Auto Assault, Ryzom, EVE, WAR, WoW, EQ2, LotRO, GW, DAoC, Aion, Requiem, Atlantica, DDO, Allods, Earth Eternal, Fallen Earth, Rift
Willing to try anything new
I just finished Modern Warfare 2 the other night and must say the story was amazing. By far the best I have seen in a while. If we take a look at very memorable games from consoles, the ones that that stand out are the ones with amazing stories lines. Just look at Final Fantasy 7 with the death of Aeris and the the making of the second baddest known villain amongst gamers(only to beat out by Vader imo). People are drawn in to the story by the tragic story with a harsh villain to fight. Modern Warfare 2 will be one of the first shooters to do this.
If we take that idea and go to the mmo, which ones have succeeded based on story lines? UO and WoW? I just can't think of any others at this time if there are any. This might an avenue mmo companies might looks at. I know if I was to make a game I would want people talking about it even after it was outdated(UO).
No video game moment has ever bothered or offended me in any way, because it is just a game.
Movies are the same way, nothing really gets to me because it is acting it isn't someone actually being raped or mutilated.
I think some people just take things too personally.
Agreed. Something I have noticed is people don't see morality in the same way either with something like the WoW as opposed to games like MW2.
When most people look at fantasy, they know it's fictional. It's morality at its most basic, good versus evil; black and white. The more "realistic" a game is, the more people tend to relate and compare to reality and I think that's when serious concerns of morality in people tend to come up, though there are always exceptions.
They was, and still is, those concerns that today's and yesterday's military games are conditioning people into a violent and hostile mindset. Then I remember hearing gripes about the game America's Army, the FPS that's associated with the Army. Now, there are games being used by the military as training as well. All of this, for some, makes realistic military games a little too realistic. If the lines weren't blurred before...
Games have been offending people's morality for a long while, take JFK Reloaded for instance; that game is rather a touchy subject with some. Postal made some nose in regards to those postal shootings some time back. The list goes on and on and not just with video games.
Hm, I don't know, I would feel uncomfortable with being evil, games or not. Just being a terrorist for some stupid story... sounds fishy. At least nothing I regard as fun time entertainment.
I think there is room for both types of games. Alot of what games (and FRPG's in particular) offer people is escapism.... A chance to get away from the complicated "shades of grey" reality that we exist in and enter a simpler....more black & white reality.
A place where the enemy is truly and irredeemably EVIL (something that is far less common in real life)......and thus hacking them down and taking their treasure comes with no strings attached. For many players even role-playing it....there is no need for guilt in hacking down an orc.... because orcs are inherently evil creatures bent on torture, destruction and mayhem....and there would be no way one COULD co-exist with them, even if one were so inclined. In that sense players ARE being MORALE when taking them down.... according to the realties of the game worlds they are playing in.
Games satisfy alot of deep-seated emotional needs we have. A game which featured more shades of grey as to it's moral choices certainly would have an audience....but it would be a DIFFERENT audience and experience then the one many players are looking for.
I wouldn't call it fishy; but I agree, I don't like playing on the "bad guy" side and I do like rooting for the underdog.
The article was a good read, however I feel that you missed a major topic within it. Myself being a hardcore PvPer, without stroking my own ego to much, I've killed tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of player characters. Many killed were in loot based games, such as Shadowbane (inventory looting), DorkFail (full loot), Dark Age of Camelot-Mordred (Coin loot in the form of constitution penalties), and Planetside (Real time spent waiting to respawn). I feel all of the above have a far greater effect on me then killing pixels that are backed by lines of script and code rather then a real person sitting in front of a computer like me.
The double standard existing within entertainment media is completely asinine. You have movies depicting brutal rape, murder, torture, pedophilia, and horrific sexual and psychological abuse. All of which are happening as we speak. Yet one optional scene in which you witness or take part in violent actions against civilians is considered a "terrorist simulator". An act which is far more unlikely to actually occur.
Oh yeah, and rock & roll is the devil's music. Give me a break.
As for the violence in the MMORPG realm, well... I haven't seen MMORPGs prove themselves as a viable storytelling medium. They are mostly massively multiplayer hack and slash games. Your "quest" is the same one done by thousands of other people with no explanation as to why this person needs his brother avenged millions of times, or why tens of millions of wolves are roughing up villagers (cripes, they just keep appearing out of thin air!) -- there really is no sense participation in the story; you are not making a difference. You have little (if any) choice in where to go next and what to do. You get loot, a pat on the back, rinse and repeat.
Granted I don't like MW2, but a first-person perspective with semi-realistic graphics shooting civilians will always evoke more outrage than a third-person lumpy orc with a cartoon color palette killing villagers.
I play RPGs to be the hero. To do good in the world my character inhabits.
Games like the GTA series are disgusting and those who play them are not people I would ever choose to associate with. They are wish fulfillment for hoodlum wannabes.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
I guess maybe I'm just sadistic and insane, but that's one of my favorite missions of the entire game. It's nothing really new, I can think of many games where you kill "innocent" people. Grand Theft Auto 4 sticks out like a sore thumb, I used to just run around and kill everyone until I died (almost never got arrested, "Not gonna take me alive coppa!" lol). Like I said, maybe I'm just wierd like that, but I think there's a huge difference between fantasy and real life.
I can agree with this. I am absolutely detested by rape. It makes me want to throw up, even when it is presented on movie screens. I don't mind if people enjoy these movies. I don't however watch them. It's that simple people. If something offends you, you don't have to do it, this is America, you don't have to ruin someone's fun or entertainment. I don't see why this is a hard concept, on all levels of American society. Most seem to think if they don't like it then no one should?
"It's just a game"
The ultimate excuse for acting like a dick to another person in an MMO.
Let's look at how you advance your Jedi in SWG...regardless of the "era" of the game.
By killing. The only way to do it is by massive death. All those piket corpses lying around the spin group's mission lair.
Somehow I don't think Yoda would have approved of such a mechanism for becoming more in tune with the Force.
Interestingly, this very point was highlighted in KOTOR II. The Exile's path is one of massive killing.
CH, Jedi, Commando, Smuggler, BH, Scout, Doctor, Chef, BE...yeah, lots of SWG time invested.
Once a denizen of Ahazi
That was a pretty good article. The paragraph about beating up monsters for their lunch money and becoming a mass murderer made me grin........but at the same time I think its a real shame because its so true. That really is what all of these mmos boil down to - killing everything in sight without having to think or find any other alternative solution. This is perhaps why I never put any effort at all into treating any mmo as a roleplaying game. I've just never come across one that I can take seriously enough. Its kind of hard imagining a character with depth when you're stood in a field surrounded by crazy nutjobs hacking up the wildlife because they have nothing else to do and the local "cleric of happiness" wants a new pair of slippers. It also doesnt help that I am given no choice other than to be a violent mass murderer.
I remember when I used to play crappy old EQ2 with its supposed good city and bad city. I really couldnt see what was "good" about Qeynos at all.......except perhaps that it was puke inducingly childish and could give Harry Potter a run for his money. All the quests were still about murdering everything in large numbers so all of its inhabitants were just as nasty and uncaring as its rival city. I wasnt given any opportunity for playing as a good character at all......unless I was willing to skip half of the quests.
I have always thought it would be interesting to see an mmo where the players could choose different ways of interacting with the worlds denizens rather than just killing them......basicly a non violent approach. I'm not sure how that would work but I bet there would be a way of pulling it off. I know Vanguard had a go at it which was one of the few things I respected about that game. Unfortunately it was total shit and just boiled down to playing a crap card game that had no real influence on anything and just led me through reading paragraphs from a block of text like an online book. It would be great if an mmo successfully managed to implement some form of diplomacy.
Also I wonder about the difference between people that feel an emotional reaction to films or games and those that dont. Even though I know a film isnt real, if its done well then it can still get an emotional reaction out of me. In fact I seek those kind of films out. There have been quite a few films that have made me feel very uplifted and others that have brought tears to my eyes.......and I'm glad of that fact. I wouldnt have it any other way. In fact I cant help myself from trying to feel immersed in whatever film, game or book I am experiencing. Why would a person NOT want to feel anything? I guess its what seperates the people who have an imagination from the ones that dont.......the ones whose only response to a deeply moving scene is "I dont care its just a film". Good films, games and books are wasted on those types of people in my opinion. In fact I think this is why so many mmos are such a load of bollocks now. They lack depth because they are catering to the unimaginative masses that dont care about having an emotional response to anything. Its just "kill monsters......collect loot.....go up levels" and anything involving the creative use of imagination on the players part is just left out and ignored. As a result roleplayers in mmos are reduced to typing out irrelevant homemade stories in the chat channels while the non-roleplayers run past them on a fed-x killing spree (ie playing the game). Its ironic that you have to NOT play the game if you want to roleplay.
Nice read.
Gaming will always be under the cannon of "how far is to far" like when people believe doom 1 would corrupt children to do bad things.
However, I do find it interesting that in Australia is allowed to massacre innocent people in an airport (MW2), however hitting zombies with a frying pan in L4D2 is completely immoral and must be censored.
Not meaning to hijack the issue, but it does reflect on how bull our rating systems are.
Making so much noise you dont know when to listen.
I play a lot of different games across alot of different genres, but two days ago my 9 year old niece came over and I showed her about a dozen games because she asked what type of games I play. It kind of threw me off when she asked if I had any games that didn't involve killing something to win. I don't particularly care but besides racing games, I don't think I've ever played a game that didn't involve a lot of killing and even a couple of my racing games have that. I've never owned any sports games (and just realized tony hawk goes with my racing games in that regard), but from the days of our 16 megahertz tandy to today, that's a lot of killing.
It is actually quite disturbing when I really think about it. Thats the problem though. No-one thinks about it. No-one cares. Non-violent games do get made but they are vastly outnumbered by the violent ones. I think this is due to the fact that we have lived in a male dominated society for......well......forever I guess. As a result the majority of computer games seem to be aimed at men. The same goes for most sports too I guess.
There ARE peaceful games that have been successful such as puzzle games like Tetris, cerebral adventure games like Myst or life simulators like The Sims but games developers tend to go where the money is......and death has always been the number 1 best seller. It always has done. Men are fascinated by it. Its ingrained in most of us. In the dark old ages of our past we used to pay money to watch people kill each other for sport. We used to gather to watch executions take place. Even our most dominant religion on the planet is a death cult that is focused on what happens after you die and is obsessed with a battle between good angelic beings and evil demonic monsters. Hmmm and who invented that one? Yep that one came out of the minds of men.
So yeah when a 9 year old girl asks a simple straight forward question like "Do you have any games that dont require me to commit murder?" it does kind of put it all into perspective.
I remember when they were talking about the Super Columbine Massacre RPG and how some people were offended that someone would even make a game like that. I was kinda put back at first but after checking it out on youtube it didn't really bother me. At first glance it might look like a parody esp being called Super Columbine Massacre but it depicts what actually happened in the past just like a WWII game.
So many people were shocked by what happened that day, they blamed video games and easy access to gun for the violence, but they never could figure out what the real reason was. When they bring morality into games it seems to make you think more, or at least choose your path a little more wisly.
Make games you want to play.
http://www.youtube.com/user/RavikAztar
This is not so much a controversy of morality but one of personal freedom and artistic expression. No irrefutable evidence exists that proves beyond doubt that killing npcs makes an individual immoral, amoral or anything else.
It's an ongoing debate that occurs in music, tv and now video games. There are people that want to control and censor others by making specious arguments about morality and such. Anything to justify their agenda to deprive free people of their rights to make their own choices.
"Just following orders" is the real world saying that pretty much matches "its just a game" within the game context. If a games story doesn't engage you, and thus make you think, what good is it? Just more fluff, such as network TV is filled to overflowing with. This gets into the difference between physical courage and ethical courage. Physical courage is much, MUCH more common than ethical courage. Which of course is how atrocities happen.
It is suposed to be just a game and an escape. I think folks put to much though into things, and we have become a country of way to policaly correct bunch of folks, oh you cant do that your going to insult somebody.
Ill make a case point for you. Here about 3.5 years back we had a deranged teanager who stole a car. He was arested, and taken to the sherifs office in fayete county. One of the sherrif's deputies mad an error and the boy bgrabed the fellows gun. The sherrif 3 dupties and the dispatcher all dead. His legal defence I thought I was playing grand theft auto. Needless to say the judge did not buy into that argument. Heck even they boys dad got on the news and said yea I knew that boy was bad, and it was a matter of a time before he killed a bunch of folks.
The way I see it there are plenty of games, if you find one that offends you you got so many others to choose from.
If I want to play a game where I am shooting russians, nazi's, or whatever thats on me, or the person playing that game.
We need to get over the political correct bug and grow thicker skins. I am so sick of hearing you cant do this because it offends folks. Im like baaaa what about freedom of speach.
I didn't read all the preceeding comments (my bad) so if someone already mentioned this, apologies in advance.
There is a quest in WoW (WotLK expansion) that requires you to commit torture in order to progress. It's all justified of course, but the NPC ordering you to do it can't get his own hands dirty, which contributes to a truly slimy feeling. Unfortunately, the quest is not optional if you want to progress along its chain.
Of my toons who have done it, they make sure to /slap the NPC before walking away after it's done.
Did you just compare WW2 with Columbine and try to rationalize it? Look it would be like making a WW2 game and saying here you be Hitler and btw heres a bunch of Jews to torture and kill and as a preorder bonus from gamestop get special nerve gas. Thats about what your comparison would amount to.
Kinda. The fact is both WW2 and that massacre happened in the past and the games go by what has already happened. People seem to get offended if the murderer they play as is a bad guy while they don't think about how evil they are in most FPS games as they kill hundreds of guys since they are good.
Make games you want to play.
http://www.youtube.com/user/RavikAztar
City of Heroes deals with this issue nicely I think. The titular heroes of the game (the player) aren't killing anyone at all, you are actually arresting them and sending them to prison. If you like, you can go to Brickstown and visit said prison--known as "The Zig" and resembling a giant ziggurat--and if you play City of Villains the tutorial mission even involves your new villain breaking out of the Zig.
This way, people can still feel heroic, noble and righteous while still mowing down enemies at every opportunity. I know the role-players of CoH appreciate this in game explanation, but they are an extreme bunch. They are adamantly opposed to merging the hero and villain markets because their characters would never touch the black market goods that no-good villains deal in.