I would be hard pressed to recommend Eve to anyone as both the developers and players have a very aggressive and narrow view of how things should be done. The recent Dominion patch for instance introduce a 11% NPC tax rate to help "encourage" players to move into player corporations with some developers and many players stating that this was way too low and should be even higher.
But, putting aside all their posturing the game does have a lot going for it for the right people. It is a much more strategic game than many people are used to and you need to take a longer view of not only your character but the overall objectives. Things such as picking what kind of ship you want to fly and work you want to do means you need to understand a lot of interelated issues and make choices based on that. For example no point in training your projectile skills to the max if you have picked a ship that is better suited to lasers or missiles.
Eve has a lot to offer to the right kind of player and hopefully you will find it enjoyable. The Dominion patch has also introduced some new tutorial agents and missions that will help in getting your feet on the ground and while I haven't done them (the new Dominon tutorials) yet I would recommend that you do the tutorial missions as they will generate a fair amount of ISK and give you some ships and an idea of what you need to do to go forward.
Eve is Marmite in space. You will either love it or hate it.
Originally posted by rwmiller I would be hard pressed to recommend Eve to anyone as both the developers and players have a very aggressive and narrow view of how things should be done. The recent Dominion patch for instance introduce a 11% NPC tax rate to help "encourage" players to move into player corporations with some developers and many players stating that this was way too low and should be even higher.
No one saying that the tax is too low can be taken seriously. There are only two groups of people:
1) The devs 2) Everyone else pointing out how stupid the tax is
For me EVE is all about PvP. I've tried playing the market and it's relatively easy to make money if you find the right areas to stock up, but it's too much like a regular job for me. If you want to PvP, escort or eh.. whatever EVE is definately the game for you. Think of EVE as a huge sandbox with unparalled many tools compared to other MMO's. You can whatever you want within the universe.
I would be hard pressed to recommend Eve to anyone as both the developers and players have a very aggressive and narrow view of how things should be done. The recent Dominion patch for instance introduce a 11% NPC tax rate to help "encourage" players to move into player corporations with some developers and many players stating that this was way too low and should be even higher.
No one saying that the tax is too low can be taken seriously. There are only two groups of people:
1) The devs
2) Everyone else pointing out how stupid the tax is
If you want the best learning experience you can get i would recommend getting out of the noob corp asap, join a corp which welcomes noobies, and remember:
1) the game is not for the instant gratification crowd, this is a long term game
After a few weeks played and about 800,000 skillpoints trained, EvE might turn out for me to be the most awe inspiring, jaw-dropping, Most Incredible Game I've Ever Seen........that I simply can't stand to play.
I've never had a game instill this level of mixed feelings before. EvE is capable of delivering some of the most compelling gameplay you will ever read about, but whats the cost of getting there? Most mainstream mmo's work off a time vs reward type of dynamic. EvE is more of a risk vs reward, and the challenge/character growth comes from learning to be an effective risk taker. The problem I see is how painfully boring the solo high-sec gameplay is if you don't feel ready to start taking the low-sec risks that drive the REAL gameplay of EvE. And high-sec play like the arc quests and basic mining appear to be an intended stepping stone on your way to bigger things.
I found what I think is a good starting corp. Its very well put together. The leaders run scheduled training sessions, have all kinds of tools to help new people -stuff like sample evemon skillsets to download and study and a big active forum. I've learned a lot. We have a corp training channel set up and the vets are very quick to answer questions and give advice. But a lot of the group activities that interest me the most are ones I'm not able to participate in. They were doing these fleet roams a few days back that sounded so cool but I was told its "not for the newbies". I put this off as comparing it to level capped players in a fantasy MMO telling the new guys that they can't pvp with them- of course you can't, you'll just end up dead, and you wouldn't really contribute anything anyway. But then I look at the options I DO have, and they are all SO BORING. Its like a group-centric game thats impossible to PUG in lol. So I make sure my skill queue is well stocked and log off.
I know how all this probably sounds, and I'm trying hard not to be "that guy" (you know, the guy that calls EvE 'stupid' because they just don't get it). I'm new to the game but I'm not blind to what it is. I want to play a MMO, not a Massively Singleplayer Online Game. I believe strongly in how working for rewards ends up delivering a more compelling and rewarding experience. Trying hard not too fall on the "its just not for you" side of the fence, but maybe I'm already there.
But a lot of the group activities that interest me the most are ones I'm not able to participate in. They were doing these fleet roams a few days back that sounded so cool but I was told its "not for the newbies". I put this off as comparing it to level capped players in a fantasy MMO telling the new guys that they can't pvp with them- of course you can't, you'll just end up dead, and you wouldn't really contribute anything anyway.
Well some fleet ops really aren't for the newbies. It's not that you dont have the skills, it's not that you dont have the DPS or the tank. It's that there's sometimes a hell of a lot of things you have to know in order not to fuck things up for the rest of the fleet. That said, I'd be very surprised if your corp doesn't do some more casual roaming gangs, in which case there's no real reason why you shouldn't join in.
If you want to join PvP fleets I would give you the following advice
(1) Have some spare ships
(2) Count your ship as lost the instant you join gang. If you get it back home again, that's a bonus.
(3) LISTEN to the fleet commander. You will be amazed and appalled how many people are unable to do this simple thing. "Align" means point your ship at full speed but do not warp. "Hold" means be on the gate but do not jump. "Do not aggress" means do not use weapons, tackle or EW. Fleet discipline is everything.
(4) Get voice comms sorted out before you join any ops. Nothing is more annoying than some guy asking how to set up teamspeak 10 minutes after the fleet should have departed. Observe comms discipline. Dont shit up teamspeak with stuff no-one really needs to know. No-one cares that you're dead when the fight is still raging; just type "dead -1 tackle frig" in fleet channel and get your pod out, and go get another ship. Learn how to give basic Intel: "HUGE FLEET ON THE GATE" <-- this is totally useless to he FC, as he has no idea how many, where or what kind of hostiles. "17 hostiles on the New Caldari gate in Perimeter, mostly BS, 2 logistics, 1 rook, 1 interceptor" <-- this is really useful to your FC as now he knows where, how many, what kind and what support the hostiles have.
(5) Ask for ship fitting advice from the experienced PvPers in your corp. They may tell you to modify your fit or ship depending on the nature of your op. Generally it's best to fit your ship to do one thing and do it well. Dont compromise that purpose to provide secondary functions, as you'll just end up being mediocre at 2 things rather than useful at one.
(6) Be clear on what you're supposed to do, and then when the time comes, do it. Focus on that. If you're not clear on what you're supposed to do, ask. Ask in fleet channel, not voice comms. Make sure you have done this before the fighting starts.
You'll need little more than a fast frigate with a warp disruptor, a web, and a microwarp drive. By all means fit some guns and whatever tank you can cram in but the MWD & tackle mods are what's needed.
You might also consider asking for a 1-2 week sabbatical to go join Red vs Blue and have some free-for-all PvP fun. Anyone can join, bring any ship and join any fleet, and they can leave or rejoin whenever they want. Once you've had 14 days fighting experience and got yourself on 30-40 killmails, your corp will be most likely be rather more willing to let you join them.
Dactyl, Don't take this the wrong way but it sounds like you joined the wrong corp. Having a vast body of knowledge available to new players doesn't make a corp a training corp. Both Eve University and Sniggwaffe schedule training events several times a week. These are mock fleet exercises that are often a lot of fun. I have fond memories of trying to tackle Mazzilliu's smartbombing nano-geddon in my rifter without getting my ass handed to me and racing other corp mates to scan down ships in belts for fun and prizes. Before you give up on Eve you might want to try a real training corp.
After a few weeks played and about 800,000 skillpoints trained, EvE might turn out for me to be the most awe inspiring, jaw-dropping, Most Incredible Game I've Ever Seen........that I simply can't stand to play. I've never had a game instill this level of mixed feelings before. EvE is capable of delivering some of the most compelling gameplay you will ever read about, but whats the cost of getting there? Most mainstream mmo's work off a time vs reward type of dynamic. EvE is more of a risk vs reward, and the challenge/character growth comes from learning to be an effective risk taker. The problem I see is how painfully boring the solo high-sec gameplay is if you don't feel ready to start taking the low-sec risks that drive the REAL gameplay of EvE. And high-sec play like the arc quests and basic mining appear to be an intended stepping stone on your way to bigger things. I found what I think is a good starting corp. Its very well put together. The leaders run scheduled training sessions, have all kinds of tools to help new people -stuff like sample evemon skillsets to download and study and a big active forum. I've learned a lot. We have a corp training channel set up and the vets are very quick to answer questions and give advice. But a lot of the group activities that interest me the most are ones I'm not able to participate in. They were doing these fleet roams a few days back that sounded so cool but I was told its "not for the newbies". I put this off as comparing it to level capped players in a fantasy MMO telling the new guys that they can't pvp with them- of course you can't, you'll just end up dead, and you wouldn't really contribute anything anyway. But then I look at the options I DO have, and they are all SO BORING. Its like a group-centric game thats impossible to PUG in lol. So I make sure my skill queue is well stocked and log off. I know how all this probably sounds, and I'm trying hard not to be "that guy" (you know, the guy that calls EvE 'stupid' because they just don't get it). I'm new to the game but I'm not blind to what it is. I want to play a MMO, not a Massively Singleplayer Online Game. I believe strongly in how working for rewards ends up delivering a more compelling and rewarding experience. Trying hard not too fall on the "its just not for you" side of the fence, but maybe I'm already there.
This is, of course, the main reason most continue to play EVE. It is ironic that you would ( I suppose from your post ) want to return to a PVE/ singleplayer because you don't want to play a " Singleplayer Online Game" .The question is why are you sitting in a station, simply logging in to change skills when others are not.
You give several reasons in your post. Your corp won't let you? You don't feel ready? Your options are boring and it's impossible to be apart of the larger group?
You want help and you want someone to guide you in game, and since you can't find it you want to return to the convenient script of PVE game developer. Their you know it will be easy and you know you will win.
So what are you options?
1.You can stay in the station and post in forums how your not that guy.
2.You can quit all together safe in the knowledge you gave it a shot.
3.You can undock from the station and engage in what is by your own words " the most awe inspiring, jaw-dropping, Most Incredible Game ".
Damn the Torpedoes, why is your corp stopping you? There are plenty of other avenues for new players to pvp and roam, from high sec wardec's to RvB to faction warfare. There is not one thing stopping you, this very minute, from engaging the EVE universe and leading other pilots as you do.
Why do you fear that you might lose a ship, and think it's safer to sit in a station. That person out there in a frig or a cruiser is no different than you, they are looking to learn and enjoy the game just as you are. They are roaming the EVE universe for the same reasons you want too. So why again are you not out there?
So what group do you want to be apart of? Why must it be the winning group? Why not fight for the sake of fighting and the chance of real victory? Is that station really so safe and inviting, and the fear of defeat so great? Is there really nothing for you to do?
What is your Quest? To make your own or play someone elses?
Comments
I would be hard pressed to recommend Eve to anyone as both the developers and players have a very aggressive and narrow view of how things should be done. The recent Dominion patch for instance introduce a 11% NPC tax rate to help "encourage" players to move into player corporations with some developers and many players stating that this was way too low and should be even higher.
But, putting aside all their posturing the game does have a lot going for it for the right people. It is a much more strategic game than many people are used to and you need to take a longer view of not only your character but the overall objectives. Things such as picking what kind of ship you want to fly and work you want to do means you need to understand a lot of interelated issues and make choices based on that. For example no point in training your projectile skills to the max if you have picked a ship that is better suited to lasers or missiles.
Eve has a lot to offer to the right kind of player and hopefully you will find it enjoyable. The Dominion patch has also introduced some new tutorial agents and missions that will help in getting your feet on the ground and while I haven't done them (the new Dominon tutorials) yet I would recommend that you do the tutorial missions as they will generate a fair amount of ISK and give you some ships and an idea of what you need to do to go forward.
Eve is Marmite in space. You will either love it or hate it.
No one saying that the tax is too low can be taken seriously. There are only two groups of people:
1) The devs
2) Everyone else pointing out how stupid the tax is
an 11 percent tax is peanuts. paying that kind of tax for immunity to wardecs is money well spent.
"as both the developers and players have a very aggressive and narrow view of how things should be done"
So both the developers and people who play the game both know what each other want from the game. Explain to me how this is a bad thing?
Jam is sticky.
Precisely what I wanted to hear. Thanks.
No one saying that the tax is too low can be taken seriously. There are only two groups of people:
1) The devs
2) Everyone else pointing out how stupid the tax is
Actually never mind.
Give me liberty or give me lasers
If you want the best learning experience you can get i would recommend getting out of the noob corp asap, join a corp which welcomes noobies, and remember:
1) the game is not for the instant gratification crowd, this is a long term game
2) NEVER EVER fly what you can't afford to lose.
After a few weeks played and about 800,000 skillpoints trained, EvE might turn out for me to be the most awe inspiring, jaw-dropping, Most Incredible Game I've Ever Seen........that I simply can't stand to play.
I've never had a game instill this level of mixed feelings before. EvE is capable of delivering some of the most compelling gameplay you will ever read about, but whats the cost of getting there? Most mainstream mmo's work off a time vs reward type of dynamic. EvE is more of a risk vs reward, and the challenge/character growth comes from learning to be an effective risk taker. The problem I see is how painfully boring the solo high-sec gameplay is if you don't feel ready to start taking the low-sec risks that drive the REAL gameplay of EvE. And high-sec play like the arc quests and basic mining appear to be an intended stepping stone on your way to bigger things.
I found what I think is a good starting corp. Its very well put together. The leaders run scheduled training sessions, have all kinds of tools to help new people -stuff like sample evemon skillsets to download and study and a big active forum. I've learned a lot. We have a corp training channel set up and the vets are very quick to answer questions and give advice. But a lot of the group activities that interest me the most are ones I'm not able to participate in. They were doing these fleet roams a few days back that sounded so cool but I was told its "not for the newbies". I put this off as comparing it to level capped players in a fantasy MMO telling the new guys that they can't pvp with them- of course you can't, you'll just end up dead, and you wouldn't really contribute anything anyway. But then I look at the options I DO have, and they are all SO BORING. Its like a group-centric game thats impossible to PUG in lol. So I make sure my skill queue is well stocked and log off.
I know how all this probably sounds, and I'm trying hard not to be "that guy" (you know, the guy that calls EvE 'stupid' because they just don't get it). I'm new to the game but I'm not blind to what it is. I want to play a MMO, not a Massively Singleplayer Online Game. I believe strongly in how working for rewards ends up delivering a more compelling and rewarding experience. Trying hard not too fall on the "its just not for you" side of the fence, but maybe I'm already there.
stuff and things
Well some fleet ops really aren't for the newbies. It's not that you dont have the skills, it's not that you dont have the DPS or the tank. It's that there's sometimes a hell of a lot of things you have to know in order not to fuck things up for the rest of the fleet. That said, I'd be very surprised if your corp doesn't do some more casual roaming gangs, in which case there's no real reason why you shouldn't join in.
If you want to join PvP fleets I would give you the following advice
(1) Have some spare ships
(2) Count your ship as lost the instant you join gang. If you get it back home again, that's a bonus.
(3) LISTEN to the fleet commander. You will be amazed and appalled how many people are unable to do this simple thing. "Align" means point your ship at full speed but do not warp. "Hold" means be on the gate but do not jump. "Do not aggress" means do not use weapons, tackle or EW. Fleet discipline is everything.
(4) Get voice comms sorted out before you join any ops. Nothing is more annoying than some guy asking how to set up teamspeak 10 minutes after the fleet should have departed. Observe comms discipline. Dont shit up teamspeak with stuff no-one really needs to know. No-one cares that you're dead when the fight is still raging; just type "dead -1 tackle frig" in fleet channel and get your pod out, and go get another ship. Learn how to give basic Intel: "HUGE FLEET ON THE GATE" <-- this is totally useless to he FC, as he has no idea how many, where or what kind of hostiles. "17 hostiles on the New Caldari gate in Perimeter, mostly BS, 2 logistics, 1 rook, 1 interceptor" <-- this is really useful to your FC as now he knows where, how many, what kind and what support the hostiles have.
(5) Ask for ship fitting advice from the experienced PvPers in your corp. They may tell you to modify your fit or ship depending on the nature of your op. Generally it's best to fit your ship to do one thing and do it well. Dont compromise that purpose to provide secondary functions, as you'll just end up being mediocre at 2 things rather than useful at one.
(6) Be clear on what you're supposed to do, and then when the time comes, do it. Focus on that. If you're not clear on what you're supposed to do, ask. Ask in fleet channel, not voice comms. Make sure you have done this before the fighting starts.
You'll need little more than a fast frigate with a warp disruptor, a web, and a microwarp drive. By all means fit some guns and whatever tank you can cram in but the MWD & tackle mods are what's needed.
You might also consider asking for a 1-2 week sabbatical to go join Red vs Blue and have some free-for-all PvP fun. Anyone can join, bring any ship and join any fleet, and they can leave or rejoin whenever they want. Once you've had 14 days fighting experience and got yourself on 30-40 killmails, your corp will be most likely be rather more willing to let you join them.
Give me liberty or give me lasers
Dactyl, Don't take this the wrong way but it sounds like you joined the wrong corp. Having a vast body of knowledge available to new players doesn't make a corp a training corp. Both Eve University and Sniggwaffe schedule training events several times a week. These are mock fleet exercises that are often a lot of fun. I have fond memories of trying to tackle Mazzilliu's smartbombing nano-geddon in my rifter without getting my ass handed to me and racing other corp mates to scan down ships in belts for fun and prizes. Before you give up on Eve you might want to try a real training corp.
This is, of course, the main reason most continue to play EVE. It is ironic that you would ( I suppose from your post ) want to return to a PVE/ singleplayer because you don't want to play a " Singleplayer Online Game" .The question is why are you sitting in a station, simply logging in to change skills when others are not.
You give several reasons in your post. Your corp won't let you? You don't feel ready? Your options are boring and it's impossible to be apart of the larger group?
You want help and you want someone to guide you in game, and since you can't find it you want to return to the convenient script of PVE game developer. Their you know it will be easy and you know you will win.
So what are you options?
1.You can stay in the station and post in forums how your not that guy.
2.You can quit all together safe in the knowledge you gave it a shot.
3.You can undock from the station and engage in what is by your own words " the most awe inspiring, jaw-dropping, Most Incredible Game ".
Damn the Torpedoes, why is your corp stopping you? There are plenty of other avenues for new players to pvp and roam, from high sec wardec's to RvB to faction warfare. There is not one thing stopping you, this very minute, from engaging the EVE universe and leading other pilots as you do.
Why do you fear that you might lose a ship, and think it's safer to sit in a station. That person out there in a frig or a cruiser is no different than you, they are looking to learn and enjoy the game just as you are. They are roaming the EVE universe for the same reasons you want too. So why again are you not out there?
So what group do you want to be apart of? Why must it be the winning group? Why not fight for the sake of fighting and the chance of real victory? Is that station really so safe and inviting, and the fear of defeat so great? Is there really nothing for you to do?
What is your Quest? To make your own or play someone elses?