raystantzFinal Fantasy XI CorrespondentMemberUncommonPosts: 1,237
Asura is the most populated FFXI server that will actually allow new toons to be created on it. Its where my toon currently resides. Odin is the most populated, but it is currently locked. The other servers hover around the same amount of players, just slightly lower than Asura.
www.facebook.com/themarksmovierules
Currently playing:
FFXIV on Behemoth, FFXI on Eden, and Gloria Victis on NA.
Forced group levelling is in most cases main reason why games are going down, and therefore arent any wanted by new players. Forced group levelling is a HUGE problem for well established games (many as you listed) since there aint just not enough players to form groups; the player base is at end level chasing their new phat loot, caring little or none about newbs.
"Group levelling" is negative, not positive. Forced group levelling is in most cases main reason why games are going down, and therefore arent any wanted by new players. Forced group levelling is a HUGE problem for well established games (many as you listed) since there aint just not enough players to form groups; the player base is at end level chasing their new phat loot, caring little or none about newbs.
Well to all of your points, this is why we are starting this, Lol
Also its more the forced solo leveling thats killing most games.
"Group levelling" is negative, not positive. Forced group levelling is in most cases main reason why games are going down, and therefore arent any wanted by new players. Forced group levelling is a HUGE problem for well established games (many as you listed) since there aint just not enough players to form groups; the player base is at end level chasing their new phat loot, caring little or none about newbs.
Well to all of your points, this is why we are starting this, Lol
Also its more the forced solo leveling thats killing most games.
There isnt anything that is called "forced solo levelling".
Forced grouping kills the games. Look at how many who plays the genre now compared to 10 years ago. The games are more solo friendly than ever before, so your statement is wrong.
Well, OP set a + in front of "Group levelling" required, when it should be a - (minus)
You do happen to know majority of all MMO players wouldnt be in a group unless they are forced into one? Which clearly speaks for itself...
"Group levelling" is negative, not positive. Forced group levelling is in most cases main reason why games are going down, and therefore arent any wanted by new players. Forced group levelling is a HUGE problem for well established games (many as you listed) since there aint just not enough players to form groups; the player base is at end level chasing their new phat loot, caring little or none about newbs.
Well to all of your points, this is why we are starting this, Lol
Also its more the forced solo leveling thats killing most games.
There isnt anything that is called "forced solo levelling".
Forced grouping kills the games. Look at how many who plays the genre now compared to 10 years ago. The games are more solo friendly than ever before, so your statement is wrong.
Well, OP set a + in front of "Group levelling" required, when it should be a - (minus)
You do happen to know majority of all MMO players wouldnt be in a group unless they are forced into one? Which clearly speaks for itself...
Are you even part of this? If not, please go elsewhere. If so, stick to the topic. Nowhere does it say this thread is about debating specifically the nicely compiled lists of pros and cons and whether or not they're REALLY pros or cons. Even so, to each their own. What may be a pro to you can easily be a con to someone else.
Well, OP set a + in front of "Group levelling" required, when it should be a - (minus) You do happen to know majority of all MMO players wouldnt be in a group unless they are forced into one? Which clearly speaks for itself...
You fail to understand that the like-minded people who gathered in this thread WANT group leveling and therefore it is a PRO ( + ) for us. The fact that most people would rather solo does indeed speak for itself. It is exactly that which many of us view as the decline of the genre in recent MMOs.
Who gives a hell what the majority of players want, this is about what WE want. In fact you'll notice many of us differ in taste from today's majority of MMO players. That is why we gathered here. You have a right to differ in opinion but you clearly don't belong here.
"Group levelling" is negative, not positive. Forced group levelling is in most cases main reason why games are going down, and therefore arent any wanted by new players. Forced group levelling is a HUGE problem for well established games (many as you listed) since there aint just not enough players to form groups; the player base is at end level chasing their new phat loot, caring little or none about newbs.
Well to all of your points, this is why we are starting this, Lol
Also its more the forced solo leveling thats killing most games.
There isnt anything that is called "forced solo levelling".
Forced grouping kills the games. Look at how many who plays the genre now compared to 10 years ago. The games are more solo friendly than ever before, so your statement is wrong.
Well, OP set a + in front of "Group levelling" required, when it should be a - (minus)
You do happen to know majority of all MMO players wouldnt be in a group unless they are forced into one? Which clearly speaks for itself...
Are you even part of this? If not, please go elsewhere. If so, stick to the topic. Nowhere does it say this thread is about debating specifically the nicely compiled lists of pros and cons and whether or not they're REALLY pros or cons. Even so, to each their own. What may be a pro to you can easily be a con to someone else.
Why not remove the plus & minuses from the game list then, as they are personal preferances anyway. You cannot make a statement here, then say this is not to be discussed. It is an open forum. If you want to be left alone, in your own little "club" I strongly suggest you should get your own forum, rather than telling people who dont agree with you to bugger off.
On topic:
I can give an advice though: The game that should be chosen, should NOT be one that forces players into groups to get levels. If the game is so, and lets say, you all becomes 20 active ones in this, it would still in the end be doomed to fail. One small group of this is not nearly enough to make up for all the dead time in between all the different players time to play. Waiting time will be a pain, and lead to people leaving. Add to this that some of you are casual players, and some hardcore, eager to press levels from first minute. The sum of this will make you spread, and thus a high potential failure.
If a solo friendly game is chosen, you can all get into same guild, chat, help and so on, regardless of what "stage" you all are in the game. Also bear in mind, which some pointed out here, that most trials are even not supporting groups (you can not invite on free trial), which will make this even more hopeless.
I would recomment EQ 2 or Vanguard for this project. Nice gfx, modern games, WoW clones, and afaik solo friendly. I have no idea though, if they support groups on trial, but I dont think that would be needed as they are solo friendly. If groups cannot be made ingame, why not get Ventrilo or something similar, as most internet users have access to headset & microphone? This will make all of this feel even closer.
Good luck on this, I will follow this with interest.
"Group levelling" is negative, not positive. Forced group levelling is in most cases main reason why games are going down, and therefore arent any wanted by new players. Forced group levelling is a HUGE problem for well established games (many as you listed) since there aint just not enough players to form groups; the player base is at end level chasing their new phat loot, caring little or none about newbs.
Well to all of your points, this is why we are starting this, Lol
Also its more the forced solo leveling thats killing most games.
There isnt anything that is called "forced solo levelling".
Forced grouping kills the games. Look at how many who plays the genre now compared to 10 years ago. The games are more solo friendly than ever before, so your statement is wrong.
Well, OP set a + in front of "Group levelling" required, when it should be a - (minus)
You do happen to know majority of all MMO players wouldnt be in a group unless they are forced into one? Which clearly speaks for itself...
Are you even part of this? If not, please go elsewhere. If so, stick to the topic. Nowhere does it say this thread is about debating specifically the nicely compiled lists of pros and cons and whether or not they're REALLY pros or cons. Even so, to each their own. What may be a pro to you can easily be a con to someone else.
Why not remove the plus & minuses from the game list then, as they are personal preferances anyway. You cannot make a statement here, then say this is not to be discussed. It is an open forum. If you want to be left alone, in your own little "club" I strongly suggest you should get your own forum, rather than telling people who dont agree with you to bugger off.
On topic:
I can give an advice though: The game that should be chosen, should NOT be one that forces players into groups to get levels. If the game is so, and lets say, you all becomes 20 active ones in this, it would still in the end be doomed to fail. One small group of this is not nearly enough to make up for all the dead time in between all the different players time to play. Waiting time will be a pain, and lead to people leaving. Add to this that some of you are casual players, and some hardcore, eager to press levels from first minute. The sum of this will make you spread, and thus a high potential failure.
If a solo friendly game is chosen, you can all get into same guild, chat, help and so on, regardless of what "stage" you all are in the game. Also bear in mind, which some pointed out here, that most trials are even not supporting groups (you can not invite on free trial), which will make this even more hopeless.
I would recomment EQ 2 or Vanguard for this project. Nice gfx, modern games, WoW clones, and afaik solo friendly. I have no idea though, if they support groups on trial, but I dont think that would be needed as they are solo friendly. If groups cannot be made ingame, why not get Ventrilo or something similar, as most internet users have access to headset & microphone? This will make all of this feel even closer.
Good luck on this, I will follow this with interest.
I understand where you're coming from and thanks for the advice. I never said "bugger off, I don't agree with you." I simply did not see the value of your post and was mostly worried about this turning into a discussion of who likes this and who doesn't like that. Which is not the goal of this project.
I agree with your recommendations. They're in our top 5, and we already have the next week or two planned out in such a way so as to narrow those 5 down to the main 1-2 games we'll be playing. We've also had someone offer us a ventrillo chat server already.
Another concern is that we're NOT looking for WoW clones. We're looking for a game that we can experience and explore as a close group from the beginning. Those are the reasons our top 5 are what they are - because they're good for exploring or they're radically different than the WoW clones and offer something new to many of us.
Your concerns about leveling aren't completely applicable because our goals don't have to do with trying to get to the end game. If, for example, I were to far out level a few people, I would be perfectly happy to tag along with them (or have them tag along with me) and help in any ways I could. The enjoyment of the player interaction far exceeds any drive to level and helping lower levels would be much more satisfying.
I only play MMOs to play with other people. All of us here desire that kind of community. I don't see out-leveling becoming a very big problem.
I think they already realised that not all with want exactly the same style of gameplay, but that does not matter. What guild does not have those who want to only solo or spend a huge amount of time crafting? A guild is not founded on gameplay style which is just as well as players are a fractious bunch.
Real shame I am tied up currently but will be keeping an eye on how it goes too. Good luck!
I am slow leveller myeself. But when a project as this is to be made, you should at least, consider, finding a game for "all". No need to find a WoW clone, even though 99% of games outthere have turned into one. Even good old EQ2 and SWG. If a 'solo hostile' game is chosen, you could, at worst, exclude many from this project. It might be fun for them at beginning, but in the longer run, it would be harder for them to stay.
Maybe you all should agree on whether going for a "forced grouping" or "solo friendly"? If am not totally wrong, EQ 1, as OP suggested, is very group oriented, and may not be ideal for those who want the ability to solo. But then again, most here might actually BE interested in such MMO. You can socialize in whatever style of play, but you may not be able to play when desired if you choose a game that focus on "group levelling". After all this project is about socializing and getting together, and not how you play the game?
I am very eager to see the end result of this; which game that will be chosen, and why people leave or stay. Mainly due to that I think people in forums like this, are quite different to the average powergamer; we do not reflect the "real" world outthere. We are here, cause we are interested in other sides of the MMO's; either be Lore, "socializing" or other sides that improves gameplay.
Your concerns about leveling aren't completely applicable because our goals don't have to do with trying to get to the end game. If, for example, I were to far out level a few people, I would be perfectly happy to tag along with them (or have them tag along with me) and help in any ways I could. The enjoyment of the player interaction far exceeds any drive to level and helping lower levels would be much more satisfying. I only play MMOs to play with other people. All of us here desire that kind of community. I don't see out-leveling becoming a very big problem.
Regarding this issue, I believe FFXI has implemented a system to allow players to group with higher/lower levels without problem, similar to the one in CoX. This may be worth taking into account. (I've been told this, I do not know for certain. If anyone can confirm/deny, please do so.)
Regarding Chrisel's points. They are mostly valid in a more general context. I simply believed them irrelevant in this case because the Author and his followers have shown a specific interest in group play and/or a will to group regardless of level gap. Please do not be insulted but I do not think the goal of this thread is to provide an objective review of the MMOs listed for the general public to make decisions on.
Chrisel has, however, brought forth potentially helpful information for our game selection. He says EQ2 and Vanguard are WoW clones and as far as he knows, solo friendly. Can anyone back this up? If it is true then I believe we would actually want to steer away from them. Unless I am mistaken about our little group's ideals, in which case, by all means, enlighten me.
If anything, we might want to hold a poll regarding desired playstyle/goals once the forums go up, alongside the vote for which game to pick.
I think that, through our first voting (narrowing it down to five - I believe we've wrapped that up) followed by everyone trying out any games from that list they desire coupled with heavy discussion on our forums-soon-to-be, the majority of people will be happy with our final choice. Chisrel has brought up good points that all involved here can take into account, but I don't think we need yp do anything specific about it. Taking everything into account throughout our trial week(s) would be all that's necessary, I believe.
Sign me up. I am quite busy right now but this is such a positive and fresh feeling idea. I would love to be a part of it. Trick is to maintain once the newness wears off! I quit EQ2 when my guild busted up, would love to have some proper and fun loving folks to play something with again.
This sounds pretty interesting. I've been in a MMO drought for quite some time. EQ2 or FFXI would get my vote. Is there a timeframe for the final decision?
This sounds pretty interesting. I've been in a MMO drought for quite some time. Of all the games, EQ2 probably has the most appeal. Is there a timeframe for the final decision?
The order in which I THINK things are going (and personally believe would work well):
1. Narrow down choices to around 5 games. DONE
Vanguard
Ryzom
EQII
Eve
FFXI
2. Choose a guild name and start our own forum. Guild name currently in discussion.
3. Spend a couple of weeks trying out whichever games we desire (I'll be trying out FFXI mostly, as it's the only game I've NEVER touched on our list) and heavily discuss/debate all five games.
4. Vote in some way, making the final decision on what game we're going to stick with.
So, you're certainly not too late to help make the final choice and one would never be too late to join us on this journey!
Thank you much Alamor0. Sounds like a solid plan. It's almost strange to be excited about playing an MMO again, heh.
raystantzFinal Fantasy XI CorrespondentMemberUncommonPosts: 1,237
To the guy who derailed the thread with his group hating antics...
What do you think MMO's were built on? It definitely wasn't soloing. I really don't care what the rest of the worlds population wants to do, but I do not want to "solo" to the level cap. If you allow people to do so, THEY WILL. point blank. WoW and every game with the same mechanics is proof of that. Don't believe me? Log on to WoW and try to get a group for VC or any instance below level 80.... not a run through.. a legitimate group. I bet you'll have a hard time doing so. Why? because noone groups for anything unless they absolutely have to. The idea of this from what I gathered, was to find a game where we CAN group. Because we feel that is what is missing from all the MMO's that are currently out there. I own plenty of single player games I can solo in. I have never understood why anyone tries to bring up argument that "soloing" the entire games is a "good" thing. There is no reason to play an MMO if thats all you intend to do. And there are already oodles and oodles of MMO's that will allow you to do just that. We are trying to find a game that caters to grouping. Meaning that the game is MORE fun if you group. There is no game on the list that doesn't have "solo" options. Even the ones that force you to group. Can you do EVERYTHING solo like your saying WE should want? No, and if a game like that is chosen.. you can count me out. I've already played WoW.. 4 years is enough of that.
Soloing should never take the top spot over grouping. It should only be there to supplement it. There are many, many single player games that cater to all the soloing you could ever want.
www.facebook.com/themarksmovierules
Currently playing:
FFXIV on Behemoth, FFXI on Eden, and Gloria Victis on NA.
Guys, stop it, don't pick a fight with him, that's exactly what he wants. Especially you, altairzq and ray. Just ignore him, and he'll go away.
I hate WoW because it made my plush hamster kill himself, created twin clones of Hitler, punched Superboy Prime in reality, stared my dog down, spoiled my grandmother, assimilated me into the Borg, then made me into a real boy, just to make me a woman again.
I will say that one thing that should be considered is playtimes. If we're all intending on becoming a group and exploring/adventuring as one, then I think we really need to set out some kind of guidelines.
For example...
A group consists of Joe, Tom, Laurie, Harry, James and Brenda. They usually get together every Mon, Wed and Fri evening to work through a series of quests, level up together, etc. One particular night, James is unable to make it and would be left behind if the rest of the group has progressed through a couple quests in a longer quest line. How would that be addressed? Does the group hold off on that particular activity until the next time? Do they do it anyway and then help James get caught up when he's on next? Etc...
It sounds corny, but the whole "united we stand, divided we fall" thing does seem to ring true here. Perhaps a "Plan B" sort of thing could be utilized. "We can't do A due to missing people... so we'll do B instead for tonight and then pick up where we left off next time".
That said... my thoughts regarding games are a bit up in the air.
I like the idea of Vanguard and Ryzom. Vanguard, I believe, has - by far - more actual content that players can engage in - quests, areas to explore, dungeons, etc. as well as a lot of side activities. Ryzom is a more wide-open MMO with less "theme-parkish" content; it's really more on the players to create their adventures.
While I love the concept behind Ryzom's gameplay, it seems to stagnate rather quickly. There seems to be a lack of toys in the sandbox to keep players doing new and interesting things for the long term. When I originally cancelled my Ryzom sub, the most exciting thing people were doing was taking long treks from one racial area to another, or the occasional outpost war. When I tried the game out again several months later, they were doing the same thing. When I tried it again almost a year later, they were doing the same thing. It just doesn't seem like a MMO that can sustain a group with new content to do for a long time. Also, while the world is big, it's pretty limited.
Vanguard on the other hand, is massive. Huge and pretty nicely rendered world. Many interesting classes, lots of quests, an involved/interesting crafting system that plays almost like a mini-game... the idea of building ships and such is something that the members can really all pitch in on and become a part of.
Between those two, Vanguard just seems to offer the *most* to a group of players looking to do something long-term.
Anyway... my two cents.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Your concerns about leveling aren't completely applicable because our goals don't have to do with trying to get to the end game. If, for example, I were to far out level a few people, I would be perfectly happy to tag along with them (or have them tag along with me) and help in any ways I could. The enjoyment of the player interaction far exceeds any drive to level and helping lower levels would be much more satisfying. I only play MMOs to play with other people. All of us here desire that kind of community. I don't see out-leveling becoming a very big problem.
Regarding this issue, I believe FFXI has implemented a system to allow players to group with higher/lower levels without problem, similar to the one in CoX. This may be worth taking into account. (I've been told this, I do not know for certain. If anyone can confirm/deny, please do so.)
Regarding Chrisel's points. They are mostly valid in a more general context. I simply believed them irrelevant in this case because the Author and his followers have shown a specific interest in group play and/or a will to group regardless of level gap. Please do not be insulted but I do not think the goal of this thread is to provide an objective review of the MMOs listed for the general public to make decisions on.
Chrisel has, however, brought forth potentially helpful information for our game selection. He says EQ2 and Vanguard are WoW clones and as far as he knows, solo friendly. Can anyone back this up? Yup, it's not true. If it is true then I believe we would actually want to steer away from them. Unless I am mistaken about our little group's ideals, in which case, by all means, enlighten me.
I'm not sure who (edit: oh...Chrisel, okay) called EQ2 and Vanguard "WoW clones," but having played 2 years of EQ2 and 5 years of WoW...I can say that pretty much the only things about EQ2 that are even like WoW at all (but I would hardly say CLONED) are that ....
1) There are LOADS of quests. No...really. You'll never be able to do every quest in the level bracket you're in before you out level the quests and they turn "grey" for adventure xp. HOWEVER....the NICE thing is....all quests still count toward your AA points, grey or not. AND...you have the option of turning off your adventure xp so as not to level, if you so choose, and you can have all of your adventuring xp converted that way to AA xp, allowing you to fine tune and "beef up" your character in that way before turning adventuring xp BACK on and continuing to level your character. Yeah....def not a "WoW clone."
(Oh and incidentally...EQ2 was released before WoW, so I'm not really sure how it could be a "clone" anyway. They have done a few things like removed their harsher death penalty and corpse/shard runs, and making the game a little easier to survive without forced grouping, but I'd hardly consider that "cloned" either.) EQ2's crafting is that of legends....leaving WoW writhing in the dust in that department, and WoW doesn't compare in a lot of other ways either. These two games just are NOT that similar. If you'd played them long enough....you'd know that. Also...the communities in these games have little in common. EQ2 has a FEW douchebags. WoW is INUNDATED with them. EQ2 tends to draw a more mature, older crowd of people.
2) The UI is easy to learn (but far better and more functional AND customizeable than WoW's default UI, and also includes an in game browser, which is wonderfully convienient.
3) You COULD solo to 80....but most people DO NOT, for good reason...simply because there is just too much good content that requires a group.
I can't think of any other ways that EQ2 is at all like WoW, other than it's a fantasy-based mmorpg. It has WAY more racial options and class options and way way more branches and customizations WITHIN the classes.
Honestly...the more I think about it...the less and less I see that EQ2 and WoW have in common at ALL.
And Vanguard?
LOL You could not ask for a game that is LESS like WoW unless you just find one that's outside of the fantasy background, like...I don't know...a space game.
If anything, we might want to hold a poll regarding desired playstyle/goals once the forums go up, alongside the vote for which game to pick.
I think there is much too much worry about experiencing the content at the same time right now. It's not about he or she fell behind, or he or she is such a higher level. It's about having a good time with a good community. We don't all need to be the same level and do the exact same things for that to be the case. Of course, it's all up to the individual, and if you had someone you played with a little more regularly and you guys had figured out something, then that's great. The more rules we set, though, the more restricted we'll feel.
They do this all the time in WoW. They call it reroll guilds. They never work out. And rerolling with a bunch who are longing to relive their first MMO experience... Well, good luck.
Comments
Asura is the most populated FFXI server that will actually allow new toons to be created on it. Its where my toon currently resides. Odin is the most populated, but it is currently locked. The other servers hover around the same amount of players, just slightly lower than Asura.
www.facebook.com/themarksmovierules
Currently playing:
FFXIV on Behemoth, FFXI on Eden, and Gloria Victis on NA.
Great idea ... community seems to 'make' the game. I think this will be a great group of folks and you'll enjoy whatever game you choose.
Forgive me for butting in...but a guild name just popped into the brain while reading through your posts....
Pro Bono Publico (for the public good)
"Group levelling" is negative, not positive.
Forced group levelling is in most cases main reason why games are going down, and therefore arent any wanted by new players. Forced group levelling is a HUGE problem for well established games (many as you listed) since there aint just not enough players to form groups; the player base is at end level chasing their new phat loot, caring little or none about newbs.
Make us care MORE about our faction & world pvp!
Well to all of your points, this is why we are starting this, Lol
Also its more the forced solo leveling thats killing most games.
Well to all of your points, this is why we are starting this, Lol
Also its more the forced solo leveling thats killing most games.
There isnt anything that is called "forced solo levelling".
Forced grouping kills the games. Look at how many who plays the genre now compared to 10 years ago. The games are more solo friendly than ever before, so your statement is wrong.
Well, OP set a + in front of "Group levelling" required, when it should be a - (minus)
You do happen to know majority of all MMO players wouldnt be in a group unless they are forced into one? Which clearly speaks for itself...
Make us care MORE about our faction & world pvp!
Well to all of your points, this is why we are starting this, Lol
Also its more the forced solo leveling thats killing most games.
There isnt anything that is called "forced solo levelling".
Forced grouping kills the games. Look at how many who plays the genre now compared to 10 years ago. The games are more solo friendly than ever before, so your statement is wrong.
Well, OP set a + in front of "Group levelling" required, when it should be a - (minus)
You do happen to know majority of all MMO players wouldnt be in a group unless they are forced into one? Which clearly speaks for itself...
Are you even part of this? If not, please go elsewhere. If so, stick to the topic. Nowhere does it say this thread is about debating specifically the nicely compiled lists of pros and cons and whether or not they're REALLY pros or cons. Even so, to each their own. What may be a pro to you can easily be a con to someone else.
You fail to understand that the like-minded people who gathered in this thread WANT group leveling and therefore it is a PRO ( + ) for us. The fact that most people would rather solo does indeed speak for itself. It is exactly that which many of us view as the decline of the genre in recent MMOs.
Who gives a hell what the majority of players want, this is about what WE want. In fact you'll notice many of us differ in taste from today's majority of MMO players. That is why we gathered here. You have a right to differ in opinion but you clearly don't belong here.
Have a good day.
Well to all of your points, this is why we are starting this, Lol
Also its more the forced solo leveling thats killing most games.
There isnt anything that is called "forced solo levelling".
Forced grouping kills the games. Look at how many who plays the genre now compared to 10 years ago. The games are more solo friendly than ever before, so your statement is wrong.
Well, OP set a + in front of "Group levelling" required, when it should be a - (minus)
You do happen to know majority of all MMO players wouldnt be in a group unless they are forced into one? Which clearly speaks for itself...
Are you even part of this? If not, please go elsewhere. If so, stick to the topic. Nowhere does it say this thread is about debating specifically the nicely compiled lists of pros and cons and whether or not they're REALLY pros or cons. Even so, to each their own. What may be a pro to you can easily be a con to someone else.
Why not remove the plus & minuses from the game list then, as they are personal preferances anyway. You cannot make a statement here, then say this is not to be discussed. It is an open forum. If you want to be left alone, in your own little "club" I strongly suggest you should get your own forum, rather than telling people who dont agree with you to bugger off.
On topic:
I can give an advice though: The game that should be chosen, should NOT be one that forces players into groups to get levels. If the game is so, and lets say, you all becomes 20 active ones in this, it would still in the end be doomed to fail. One small group of this is not nearly enough to make up for all the dead time in between all the different players time to play. Waiting time will be a pain, and lead to people leaving. Add to this that some of you are casual players, and some hardcore, eager to press levels from first minute. The sum of this will make you spread, and thus a high potential failure.
If a solo friendly game is chosen, you can all get into same guild, chat, help and so on, regardless of what "stage" you all are in the game. Also bear in mind, which some pointed out here, that most trials are even not supporting groups (you can not invite on free trial), which will make this even more hopeless.
I would recomment EQ 2 or Vanguard for this project. Nice gfx, modern games, WoW clones, and afaik solo friendly. I have no idea though, if they support groups on trial, but I dont think that would be needed as they are solo friendly. If groups cannot be made ingame, why not get Ventrilo or something similar, as most internet users have access to headset & microphone? This will make all of this feel even closer.
Good luck on this, I will follow this with interest.
Make us care MORE about our faction & world pvp!
Well to all of your points, this is why we are starting this, Lol
Also its more the forced solo leveling thats killing most games.
There isnt anything that is called "forced solo levelling".
Forced grouping kills the games. Look at how many who plays the genre now compared to 10 years ago. The games are more solo friendly than ever before, so your statement is wrong.
Well, OP set a + in front of "Group levelling" required, when it should be a - (minus)
You do happen to know majority of all MMO players wouldnt be in a group unless they are forced into one? Which clearly speaks for itself...
Are you even part of this? If not, please go elsewhere. If so, stick to the topic. Nowhere does it say this thread is about debating specifically the nicely compiled lists of pros and cons and whether or not they're REALLY pros or cons. Even so, to each their own. What may be a pro to you can easily be a con to someone else.
Why not remove the plus & minuses from the game list then, as they are personal preferances anyway. You cannot make a statement here, then say this is not to be discussed. It is an open forum. If you want to be left alone, in your own little "club" I strongly suggest you should get your own forum, rather than telling people who dont agree with you to bugger off.
On topic:
I can give an advice though: The game that should be chosen, should NOT be one that forces players into groups to get levels. If the game is so, and lets say, you all becomes 20 active ones in this, it would still in the end be doomed to fail. One small group of this is not nearly enough to make up for all the dead time in between all the different players time to play. Waiting time will be a pain, and lead to people leaving. Add to this that some of you are casual players, and some hardcore, eager to press levels from first minute. The sum of this will make you spread, and thus a high potential failure.
If a solo friendly game is chosen, you can all get into same guild, chat, help and so on, regardless of what "stage" you all are in the game. Also bear in mind, which some pointed out here, that most trials are even not supporting groups (you can not invite on free trial), which will make this even more hopeless.
I would recomment EQ 2 or Vanguard for this project. Nice gfx, modern games, WoW clones, and afaik solo friendly. I have no idea though, if they support groups on trial, but I dont think that would be needed as they are solo friendly. If groups cannot be made ingame, why not get Ventrilo or something similar, as most internet users have access to headset & microphone? This will make all of this feel even closer.
Good luck on this, I will follow this with interest.
I understand where you're coming from and thanks for the advice. I never said "bugger off, I don't agree with you." I simply did not see the value of your post and was mostly worried about this turning into a discussion of who likes this and who doesn't like that. Which is not the goal of this project.
I agree with your recommendations. They're in our top 5, and we already have the next week or two planned out in such a way so as to narrow those 5 down to the main 1-2 games we'll be playing. We've also had someone offer us a ventrillo chat server already.
Another concern is that we're NOT looking for WoW clones. We're looking for a game that we can experience and explore as a close group from the beginning. Those are the reasons our top 5 are what they are - because they're good for exploring or they're radically different than the WoW clones and offer something new to many of us.
Your concerns about leveling aren't completely applicable because our goals don't have to do with trying to get to the end game. If, for example, I were to far out level a few people, I would be perfectly happy to tag along with them (or have them tag along with me) and help in any ways I could. The enjoyment of the player interaction far exceeds any drive to level and helping lower levels would be much more satisfying.
I only play MMOs to play with other people. All of us here desire that kind of community. I don't see out-leveling becoming a very big problem.
I think they already realised that not all with want exactly the same style of gameplay, but that does not matter. What guild does not have those who want to only solo or spend a huge amount of time crafting? A guild is not founded on gameplay style which is just as well as players are a fractious bunch.
Real shame I am tied up currently but will be keeping an eye on how it goes too. Good luck!
I am slow leveller myeself. But when a project as this is to be made, you should at least, consider, finding a game for "all". No need to find a WoW clone, even though 99% of games outthere have turned into one. Even good old EQ2 and SWG. If a 'solo hostile' game is chosen, you could, at worst, exclude many from this project. It might be fun for them at beginning, but in the longer run, it would be harder for them to stay.
Maybe you all should agree on whether going for a "forced grouping" or "solo friendly"? If am not totally wrong, EQ 1, as OP suggested, is very group oriented, and may not be ideal for those who want the ability to solo. But then again, most here might actually BE interested in such MMO. You can socialize in whatever style of play, but you may not be able to play when desired if you choose a game that focus on "group levelling". After all this project is about socializing and getting together, and not how you play the game?
I am very eager to see the end result of this; which game that will be chosen, and why people leave or stay. Mainly due to that I think people in forums like this, are quite different to the average powergamer; we do not reflect the "real" world outthere. We are here, cause we are interested in other sides of the MMO's; either be Lore, "socializing" or other sides that improves gameplay.
Make us care MORE about our faction & world pvp!
Regarding this issue, I believe FFXI has implemented a system to allow players to group with higher/lower levels without problem, similar to the one in CoX. This may be worth taking into account. (I've been told this, I do not know for certain. If anyone can confirm/deny, please do so.)
Regarding Chrisel's points. They are mostly valid in a more general context. I simply believed them irrelevant in this case because the Author and his followers have shown a specific interest in group play and/or a will to group regardless of level gap. Please do not be insulted but I do not think the goal of this thread is to provide an objective review of the MMOs listed for the general public to make decisions on.
Chrisel has, however, brought forth potentially helpful information for our game selection. He says EQ2 and Vanguard are WoW clones and as far as he knows, solo friendly. Can anyone back this up? If it is true then I believe we would actually want to steer away from them. Unless I am mistaken about our little group's ideals, in which case, by all means, enlighten me.
If anything, we might want to hold a poll regarding desired playstyle/goals once the forums go up, alongside the vote for which game to pick.
I think that, through our first voting (narrowing it down to five - I believe we've wrapped that up) followed by everyone trying out any games from that list they desire coupled with heavy discussion on our forums-soon-to-be, the majority of people will be happy with our final choice. Chisrel has brought up good points that all involved here can take into account, but I don't think we need yp do anything specific about it. Taking everything into account throughout our trial week(s) would be all that's necessary, I believe.
Sign me up. I am quite busy right now but this is such a positive and fresh feeling idea. I would love to be a part of it. Trick is to maintain once the newness wears off! I quit EQ2 when my guild busted up, would love to have some proper and fun loving folks to play something with again.
This sounds pretty interesting. I've been in a MMO drought for quite some time. EQ2 or FFXI would get my vote. Is there a timeframe for the final decision?
The order in which I THINK things are going (and personally believe would work well):
1. Narrow down choices to around 5 games. DONE
2. Choose a guild name and start our own forum. Guild name currently in discussion.
3. Spend a couple of weeks trying out whichever games we desire (I'll be trying out FFXI mostly, as it's the only game I've NEVER touched on our list) and heavily discuss/debate all five games.
4. Vote in some way, making the final decision on what game we're going to stick with.
So, you're certainly not too late to help make the final choice and one would never be too late to join us on this journey!
Thank you much Alamor0. Sounds like a solid plan. It's almost strange to be excited about playing an MMO again, heh.
To the guy who derailed the thread with his group hating antics...
What do you think MMO's were built on? It definitely wasn't soloing. I really don't care what the rest of the worlds population wants to do, but I do not want to "solo" to the level cap. If you allow people to do so, THEY WILL. point blank. WoW and every game with the same mechanics is proof of that. Don't believe me? Log on to WoW and try to get a group for VC or any instance below level 80.... not a run through.. a legitimate group. I bet you'll have a hard time doing so. Why? because noone groups for anything unless they absolutely have to. The idea of this from what I gathered, was to find a game where we CAN group. Because we feel that is what is missing from all the MMO's that are currently out there. I own plenty of single player games I can solo in. I have never understood why anyone tries to bring up argument that "soloing" the entire games is a "good" thing. There is no reason to play an MMO if thats all you intend to do. And there are already oodles and oodles of MMO's that will allow you to do just that. We are trying to find a game that caters to grouping. Meaning that the game is MORE fun if you group. There is no game on the list that doesn't have "solo" options. Even the ones that force you to group. Can you do EVERYTHING solo like your saying WE should want? No, and if a game like that is chosen.. you can count me out. I've already played WoW.. 4 years is enough of that.
Soloing should never take the top spot over grouping. It should only be there to supplement it. There are many, many single player games that cater to all the soloing you could ever want.
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Currently playing:
FFXIV on Behemoth, FFXI on Eden, and Gloria Victis on NA.
Guys, stop it, don't pick a fight with him, that's exactly what he wants. Especially you, altairzq and ray. Just ignore him, and he'll go away.
I hate WoW because it made my plush hamster kill himself, created twin clones of Hitler, punched Superboy Prime in reality, stared my dog down, spoiled my grandmother, assimilated me into the Borg, then made me into a real boy, just to make me a woman again.
nevermind what I was originally going to post...
I will say that one thing that should be considered is playtimes. If we're all intending on becoming a group and exploring/adventuring as one, then I think we really need to set out some kind of guidelines.
For example...
A group consists of Joe, Tom, Laurie, Harry, James and Brenda. They usually get together every Mon, Wed and Fri evening to work through a series of quests, level up together, etc. One particular night, James is unable to make it and would be left behind if the rest of the group has progressed through a couple quests in a longer quest line. How would that be addressed? Does the group hold off on that particular activity until the next time? Do they do it anyway and then help James get caught up when he's on next? Etc...
It sounds corny, but the whole "united we stand, divided we fall" thing does seem to ring true here. Perhaps a "Plan B" sort of thing could be utilized. "We can't do A due to missing people... so we'll do B instead for tonight and then pick up where we left off next time".
That said... my thoughts regarding games are a bit up in the air.
I like the idea of Vanguard and Ryzom. Vanguard, I believe, has - by far - more actual content that players can engage in - quests, areas to explore, dungeons, etc. as well as a lot of side activities. Ryzom is a more wide-open MMO with less "theme-parkish" content; it's really more on the players to create their adventures.
While I love the concept behind Ryzom's gameplay, it seems to stagnate rather quickly. There seems to be a lack of toys in the sandbox to keep players doing new and interesting things for the long term. When I originally cancelled my Ryzom sub, the most exciting thing people were doing was taking long treks from one racial area to another, or the occasional outpost war. When I tried the game out again several months later, they were doing the same thing. When I tried it again almost a year later, they were doing the same thing. It just doesn't seem like a MMO that can sustain a group with new content to do for a long time. Also, while the world is big, it's pretty limited.
Vanguard on the other hand, is massive. Huge and pretty nicely rendered world. Many interesting classes, lots of quests, an involved/interesting crafting system that plays almost like a mini-game... the idea of building ships and such is something that the members can really all pitch in on and become a part of.
Between those two, Vanguard just seems to offer the *most* to a group of players looking to do something long-term.
Anyway... my two cents.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Regarding this issue, I believe FFXI has implemented a system to allow players to group with higher/lower levels without problem, similar to the one in CoX. This may be worth taking into account. (I've been told this, I do not know for certain. If anyone can confirm/deny, please do so.)
Regarding Chrisel's points. They are mostly valid in a more general context. I simply believed them irrelevant in this case because the Author and his followers have shown a specific interest in group play and/or a will to group regardless of level gap. Please do not be insulted but I do not think the goal of this thread is to provide an objective review of the MMOs listed for the general public to make decisions on.
Chrisel has, however, brought forth potentially helpful information for our game selection. He says EQ2 and Vanguard are WoW clones and as far as he knows, solo friendly. Can anyone back this up? Yup, it's not true.
If it is true then I believe we would actually want to steer away from them. Unless I am mistaken about our little group's ideals, in which case, by all means, enlighten me.
I'm not sure who (edit: oh...Chrisel, okay) called EQ2 and Vanguard "WoW clones," but having played 2 years of EQ2 and 5 years of WoW...I can say that pretty much the only things about EQ2 that are even like WoW at all (but I would hardly say CLONED) are that ....
1) There are LOADS of quests. No...really. You'll never be able to do every quest in the level bracket you're in before you out level the quests and they turn "grey" for adventure xp. HOWEVER....the NICE thing is....all quests still count toward your AA points, grey or not. AND...you have the option of turning off your adventure xp so as not to level, if you so choose, and you can have all of your adventuring xp converted that way to AA xp, allowing you to fine tune and "beef up" your character in that way before turning adventuring xp BACK on and continuing to level your character. Yeah....def not a "WoW clone."
(Oh and incidentally...EQ2 was released before WoW, so I'm not really sure how it could be a "clone" anyway. They have done a few things like removed their harsher death penalty and corpse/shard runs, and making the game a little easier to survive without forced grouping, but I'd hardly consider that "cloned" either.) EQ2's crafting is that of legends....leaving WoW writhing in the dust in that department, and WoW doesn't compare in a lot of other ways either. These two games just are NOT that similar. If you'd played them long enough....you'd know that. Also...the communities in these games have little in common. EQ2 has a FEW douchebags. WoW is INUNDATED with them. EQ2 tends to draw a more mature, older crowd of people.
2) The UI is easy to learn (but far better and more functional AND customizeable than WoW's default UI, and also includes an in game browser, which is wonderfully convienient.
3) You COULD solo to 80....but most people DO NOT, for good reason...simply because there is just too much good content that requires a group.
I can't think of any other ways that EQ2 is at all like WoW, other than it's a fantasy-based mmorpg. It has WAY more racial options and class options and way way more branches and customizations WITHIN the classes.
Honestly...the more I think about it...the less and less I see that EQ2 and WoW have in common at ALL.
And Vanguard?
LOL You could not ask for a game that is LESS like WoW unless you just find one that's outside of the fantasy background, like...I don't know...a space game.
If anything, we might want to hold a poll regarding desired playstyle/goals once the forums go up, alongside the vote for which game to pick.
Good idea.
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
I think there is much too much worry about experiencing the content at the same time right now. It's not about he or she fell behind, or he or she is such a higher level. It's about having a good time with a good community. We don't all need to be the same level and do the exact same things for that to be the case. Of course, it's all up to the individual, and if you had someone you played with a little more regularly and you guys had figured out something, then that's great. The more rules we set, though, the more restricted we'll feel.
They do this all the time in WoW. They call it reroll guilds.
They never work out.
And rerolling with a bunch who are longing to relive their first MMO experience...
Well, good luck.
Well shave my back and call me an elf! -- Oghren
Thank you for your extremely helpful comment.
Ah well.. following Gornian's sound advice.. ignoring the haters and talking about the project.
Maybe it's time to make a selection of 4 games, for instance, and vote on those?