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How is that any different from people having to hit level 80 before being able to "play"?
See problem with your horrible logic, is that this game does not extent forever. Maxing out hammer and sword is redundant. Maxing out all the magic schools is redundant. They do not extend forever, they stop at 100.
In an RPG, no one is ever dead even. That's not what RPGs are for. This isn't Counterstrike.
Second, you will not run into a player who has been playing for 5 months who has perpetually improved his sword skill to 500 and you have no hope of beating him. His sword is capped at 100, and likely has been at 100 for 4 months. He can have every magic school at 100 and it won't matter, because you only need one or two. You don't need to grind to get that by any means, you can just play the game and level it up while you have fun doing whatever you find fun.
Lastly, even if he has 100 sword and you have 50 sword, due to the fact that the game is twitch based, YOU CAN STILL BEAT HIM IF YOU ARE A SUPERIOR PLAYER.
Understand yet? Or do you want to continue trolling?
Darkfall Travelogues!
You do not need all skills to compete, not even close. This isn't WoW where you need a maxed out character. This is a skill based game. Hell, you don't even need proper gear.
lolz. That's right folks. Not even going to say it.
I will. Let others.
Most PvPers hate rock paper sisscors balance you obviously aren't a skill based PvPer so why even open your mouth?
Games:
Currently playing:Nothing
Will play: Darkfall: Unholy Wars
Past games:
Guild Wars 2 - Xpiher Duminous
Xpiher's GW2
GW 1 - Xpiher Duminous
Darkfall - Xpiher Duminous (NA) retired
AoC - Xpiher (Tyranny) retired
Warhammer - Xpiher
Take your own advice from yesterday, it was very logical. Don't post about stuff that you don't know what you're talkin about.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
You do not need all skills to compete, not even close. This isn't WoW where you need a maxed out character. This is a skill based game. Hell, you don't even need proper gear.
lolz. That's right folks. Not even going to say it.
I will. Let others.
Most PvPers hate rock paper sisscors balance you obviously aren't a skill based PvPer so why even open your mouth?
I'm not? That's quite an assumption.
----------
"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
I'm sorry, I can conceive of no reasonable argument that begins with the statement "Oblivion, Morrowind and Darkfall all have something in common and that element makes them inferior to X".
There is no possible line of reasoning that could achieve a logically coherent idea that has such a statement as a premise or a result.
It's like saying "3 + 4 = -65 and I came to that conclusion by blah blah... "
Truly though, you can find anything on the internet.
You do not need all skills to compete, not even close. This isn't WoW where you need a maxed out character. This is a skill based game. Hell, you don't even need proper gear.
lolz. That's right folks. Not even going to say it.
I will. Let others.
Most PvPers hate rock paper sisscors balance you obviously aren't a skill based PvPer so why even open your mouth?
I'm not? That's quite an assumption.
And in true troll fashion, skips my post entirely.
Darkfall Travelogues!
You do not need all skills to compete, not even close. This isn't WoW where you need a maxed out character. This is a skill based game. Hell, you don't even need proper gear.
lolz. That's right folks. Not even going to say it.
I will. Let others.
Most PvPers hate rock paper sisscors balance you obviously aren't a skill based PvPer so why even open your mouth?
I'm not? That's quite an assumption.
Its an asumption based on the fact that you believe that a hard cap leads to a better pvp experience than no cap at all. Hard caps create artifical restrictions on a players ability to play and thus force people to have a weakness to exploit. It leads to rock paper sisscors balance which isn't player skill > all its player's build/gear> player skill > gear > sucky person. All else being equal, a person with magic will dominate a person without it by keeping the melee person at bay, but once the melee gets into melee range the mage is screwed. Thats not skill, thats my character is better than you charater always.
Games:
Currently playing:Nothing
Will play: Darkfall: Unholy Wars
Past games:
Guild Wars 2 - Xpiher Duminous
Xpiher's GW2
GW 1 - Xpiher Duminous
Darkfall - Xpiher Duminous (NA) retired
AoC - Xpiher (Tyranny) retired
Warhammer - Xpiher
How is that any different from people having to hit level 80 before being able to "play"?
See problem with your horrible logic, is that this game does not extent forever. Maxing out hammer and sword is redundant. Maxing out all the magic schools is redundant. They do not extend forever, they stop at 100.
In an RPG, no one is ever dead even. That's not what RPGs are for. This isn't Counterstrike.
Second, you will not run into a player who has been playing for 5 months who has perpetually improved his sword skill to 500 and you have no hope of beating him. His sword is capped at 100, and likely has been at 100 for 4 months. He can have every magic school at 100 and it won't matter, because you only need one or two. You don't need to grind to get that by any means, you can just play the game and level it up while you have fun doing whatever you find fun.
Lastly, even if he has 100 sword and you have 50 sword, due to the fact that the game is twitch based, YOU CAN STILL BEAT HIM IF YOU ARE A SUPERIOR PLAYER.
Understand yet? Or do you want to continue trolling?
Oh, i definitely understand that an individuals skill in understanding his situation will be more valuable to him, than a skill stat. Twitch does not negate anything I said. However, those skills mean something, however the darkfall system is a good take on a skill based system, however the pitfalls of it are not 100% negated, or there would simply be no skills at all.
You will also note, I don't PvP in class/gear games, not for a long time, it was pointless.
Believe me, I understand. I also understand engaging in any form of conversation with you, is also pointless.
----------
"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
Its an asumption based on the fact that you believe that a hard cap leads to a better pvp experience than no cap at all.
I said that? Amazing. Where?
----------
"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
Its an asumption based on the fact that you believe that a hard cap leads to a better pvp experience than no cap at all.
I said that? Amazing. Where?
By quoting the people that you did. If you didn't agree with them, you wouldn't of quoted it.
NVM. I didn't read the post you quoted correctly. Forget that system, I don't want to complete quest/task to level a character.
Games:
Currently playing:Nothing
Will play: Darkfall: Unholy Wars
Past games:
Guild Wars 2 - Xpiher Duminous
Xpiher's GW2
GW 1 - Xpiher Duminous
Darkfall - Xpiher Duminous (NA) retired
AoC - Xpiher (Tyranny) retired
Warhammer - Xpiher
Its an asumption based on the fact that you believe that a hard cap leads to a better pvp experience than no cap at all.
I said that? Amazing. Where?
By quoting the people that you did. If you didn't agree with them, you wouldn't of quoted it.
Quite an assumption. Don't fault me for the forum software's lack of features.
----------
"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
This is starting to sound eerily similar to the idea that a new player cannot be competitive in EVE. That it would be pointless to start now as one could never catch up to any of the vets.
It's just not the case at all. When you start out in these types of games, you need to focus your training and figure out from the get go what it is you want to specialize in. What's so hard to understand about that?
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
How is that any different from people having to hit level 80 before being able to "play"?
See problem with your horrible logic, is that this game does not extent forever. Maxing out hammer and sword is redundant. Maxing out all the magic schools is redundant. They do not extend forever, they stop at 100.
In an RPG, no one is ever dead even. That's not what RPGs are for. This isn't Counterstrike.
Second, you will not run into a player who has been playing for 5 months who has perpetually improved his sword skill to 500 and you have no hope of beating him. His sword is capped at 100, and likely has been at 100 for 4 months. He can have every magic school at 100 and it won't matter, because you only need one or two. You don't need to grind to get that by any means, you can just play the game and level it up while you have fun doing whatever you find fun.
Lastly, even if he has 100 sword and you have 50 sword, due to the fact that the game is twitch based, YOU CAN STILL BEAT HIM IF YOU ARE A SUPERIOR PLAYER.
Understand yet? Or do you want to continue trolling?
Oh, i definitely understand that an individuals skill in understanding his situation will be more valuable to him, than a skill stat. Twitch does not negate anything I said. However, those skills mean something, however the darkfall system is a good take on a skill based system, however the pitfalls of it are not 100% negated, or there would simply be no skills at all.
You will also note, I don't PvP in class/gear games, not for a long time, it was pointless.
Believe me, I understand. I also understand engaging in any form of conversation with you, is also pointless.
Wow, quite the flip flop from what you said 3 seconds ago, I have no idea what you're even trying to say anymore.
Darkfall Travelogues!
Every pen and paper RPG ever made works this way and every game since the creation of RPG's themselves work this way.
but here is why it DOES work.
hard core players are no longer intrested in hunting you down for your rank 0-10 bow becuase they are too busy going into other areas that are much harder.
Why? becuase its human nature to want a challenge. sure experienced players will hunt down noobs at first but it gets really old very fast.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
I do understand that. The two games are vastly different however.
----------
"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
Wow, quite the flip flop from what you said 3 seconds ago, I have no idea what you're even trying to say anymore.
I believe he is trying to say "however". However I could be wrong, however.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
I do understand that. The two games are vastly different however.
Same principle still applies.
I know they are very different games. I've been playing EVE since 2005. You have to understand that fundamentally there are similar games.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
How is that any different from people having to hit level 80 before being able to "play"?
See problem with your horrible logic, is that this game does not extent forever. Maxing out hammer and sword is redundant. Maxing out all the magic schools is redundant. They do not extend forever, they stop at 100.
In an RPG, no one is ever dead even. That's not what RPGs are for. This isn't Counterstrike.
Second, you will not run into a player who has been playing for 5 months who has perpetually improved his sword skill to 500 and you have no hope of beating him. His sword is capped at 100, and likely has been at 100 for 4 months. He can have every magic school at 100 and it won't matter, because you only need one or two. You don't need to grind to get that by any means, you can just play the game and level it up while you have fun doing whatever you find fun.
Lastly, even if he has 100 sword and you have 50 sword, due to the fact that the game is twitch based, YOU CAN STILL BEAT HIM IF YOU ARE A SUPERIOR PLAYER.
Understand yet? Or do you want to continue trolling?
Oh, i definitely understand that an individuals skill in understanding his situation will be more valuable to him, than a skill stat. Twitch does not negate anything I said. However, those skills mean something, however the darkfall system is a good take on a skill based system, however the pitfalls of it are not 100% negated, or there would simply be no skills at all.
You will also note, I don't PvP in class/gear games, not for a long time, it was pointless.
Believe me, I understand. I also understand engaging in any form of conversation with you, is also pointless.
Wow, quite the flip flop from what you said 3 seconds ago, I have no idea what you're even trying to say anymore.
I flip flopped nothing, I am not binary in thought, you have preconceived notions, clouded by rage.
I know there is an intelligent person in there somewhere, that can hold a conversation though. somewhere.
I also keep forgetting that i must post my "Credentials" before commenting here, no matter what the post contents contain. I must try to remember this. My bad.
----------
"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
You do not need all skills to compete, not even close. This isn't WoW where you need a maxed out character. This is a skill based game. Hell, you don't even need proper gear.
lolz. That's right folks. Not even going to say it.
I will. Let others.
Most PvPers hate rock paper sisscors balance you obviously aren't a skill based PvPer so why even open your mouth?
I'm not? That's quite an assumption.
And in true troll fashion, skips my post entirely.
You are like, totally the victim here. Totally.
ANYWAY, enjoy the thread. It is simply not enjoyable talking with you people.
----------
"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
How is that any different from people having to hit level 80 before being able to "play"?
See problem with your horrible logic, is that this game does not extent forever. Maxing out hammer and sword is redundant. Maxing out all the magic schools is redundant. They do not extend forever, they stop at 100.
In an RPG, no one is ever dead even. That's not what RPGs are for. This isn't Counterstrike.
Second, you will not run into a player who has been playing for 5 months who has perpetually improved his sword skill to 500 and you have no hope of beating him. His sword is capped at 100, and likely has been at 100 for 4 months. He can have every magic school at 100 and it won't matter, because you only need one or two. You don't need to grind to get that by any means, you can just play the game and level it up while you have fun doing whatever you find fun.
Lastly, even if he has 100 sword and you have 50 sword, due to the fact that the game is twitch based, YOU CAN STILL BEAT HIM IF YOU ARE A SUPERIOR PLAYER.
Understand yet? Or do you want to continue trolling?
Oh, i definitely understand that an individuals skill in understanding his situation will be more valuable to him, than a skill stat. Twitch does not negate anything I said. However, those skills mean something, however the darkfall system is a good take on a skill based system, however the pitfalls of it are not 100% negated, or there would simply be no skills at all.
You will also note, I don't PvP in class/gear games, not for a long time, it was pointless.
Believe me, I understand. I also understand engaging in any form of conversation with you, is also pointless.
Wow, quite the flip flop from what you said 3 seconds ago, I have no idea what you're even trying to say anymore.
I flip flopped nothing, I am not binary in thought, you have preconceived notions, clouded by rage.
I know there is an intelligent person in there somewhere, that can hold a conversation though. somewhere.
I also keep forgetting that i must post my "Credentials" before commenting here, no matter what the post contents contain. I must try to remember this. My bad.
For someone who claims not to think in binary you should do sound like a condescending robot... clouded by rage, really? Maybe if your initial post hadn't been so blatantly troll bait... So you agree then, that you do not need to max out skill OR grind to compete in Darkfall...
Darkfall Travelogues!
I'm sorry, I can conceive of no reasonable argument that begins with the statement "Oblivion, Morrowind and Darkfall all have something in common and that element makes them inferior to X".
There is no possible line of reasoning that could achieve a logically coherent idea that has such a statement as a premise or a result.
It's like saying "3 + 4 = -65 and I came to that conclusion by blah blah... "
Truly though, you can find anything on the internet.
You should read the article instead of jumping to a ridiculous conclusion after misunderstanding the first sentence. "From my experiences with [these games that share common advancement systems], I have noticed..." is not saying "because I've played [these games], this is bad." I've spent time playing games that use the system and I've given them serious thought before coming up with my analysis. How am I supposed to judge how character advancement systems work without playing games that use them? Certainly arguing based on experience and analysis of that experience in a field as young as game design can lead to valid analysis and worthwhile reading.
I did a better job laying out the argument in the second post, as well. The first one was a bit rash and unnecessarily broad. The second post nails down particularly where I think the problems are and shows that a different use-based system can mitigate most of the problems.
I write for That's a Terrible Idea, a blog about MMO and game design.
evizaer - Don't bother. They will not understand. Anything. Saving you some grief. Great logical observations BTW. Was a great read.
----------
"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
Yes. I read through this thread after I made my post and realized there is no discussion going on here, only posturing and yelling. It's a shame people seem to be incapable of having intelligent discussions about game design outside of very specific places and scenarios.
I write for That's a Terrible Idea, a blog about MMO and game design.
welcome to mmorpg.com
Take it easy, that was just my vain attempt at being funny.
Now, I'm going to read the articles in an attempt to look less like an ass, and come up with a better comment.