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Add more skill to WoW PVP
Hansen88a
Member UncommonPosts: 7
Hello!
I did play world of warcraft for a long time, and everywhere people complain that there is no skill in these games, most of all WoW. It's just keyboard hotkeys, randomness and auto-hit.
Well my question is; What do you add or change so skills matter in WoW?
Suggestion 1: Remove auto-hit, and you aim some of your spells and hits by yourself with a aim like CS. Where you hit matters, hitting head gives like 10% more dmg, rest of body like 5%.
Suggestion 2: Add some basics like, jumping backwards or ducking will avoid the opponents attack, meaning you have to time it. But these type of spells should have a few minutes cooldown.
Suggestion 3: Remove all % factors. Like critical hit, miss %, dodge %, hit %, parry % and so on. Add firm numbers and dont base the system on luck.
What do you think of the 3 suggestions i gave, you think they would work?
Do you know any other games features, or have any ideas yourself how to add more skills to WoW?
Regards,
Hansen
Comments
give me a mmo that takes more "skill" than WoW arenas, you can't name one. Its the most competitive feature i've played in a video game post counter strike CAL 5v5 leagues. The reason there are so many tournaments etc.
I didnt start this thread to flame or complain. Im intressted in people's views and ideas on how you can improve the game to increase the skill factor.
Do you still play WoW? And if you dont, when did you stop playing?
1) To remove auto-hit would drastically change the basic combat mechanics. Essentially, you would be creating a different game if you removed this feature. This wont happen.
2)This ties into suggestion 1. While all classes have some nifty movement abilites (mage's blink, warriors charge, rogue's vanish and sprint) I believe you are asking for movement abilities that you see in darkfall, and age of conan - something that WoW was never designed to do.
3)This is something a lot of PvPs have brought up: Its called RNG or Random Number Generator. Its basically the mechanic that decideds if that frostbolt hits you, hits you and crits, or hits you and gets resisted, among others. RNG is a frustrating feature for the very best players because even if they out play their opponents and do everything right, a few bad rolls from the RNG could spell defeat. This also means that the best players/team wont always win. I mention rolls because RNG is based off of the rolling of the dice from D&D. While it is a frustrating feature for some, it is a feature that WoW has built their whole combat system off of. Removing it would be making a new game and thus, will never happen.
WoW's pvp, arena atleast, takes skill. A lot of skill. Sure, you can start playing and faceroll your way to a dozen wins or so (everybody starts off at the lowest rating and thus play other people with low rating) but once you start getting into the 1500-1600 rating, you need to have a good group composition, good coordination, and skill.
I use 43 keybindings when I do arena with my hunter, and I constantly need to keep track of my pet, my partner, my target, and my focus target. Pulling off CC, kititng my opponents, and timing my cooldowns correctly is no easy task. Anybody that says that arena in WoW is easy doesn't know what they are talking about. Only the skilled players make it look easy.
Thanks for a good answer. Okay so you believe they wouldn't be implemented in WoW and i think that is certain. But how do you think they would work in another lets say a new MMORPG game?
Im not arguing with you that WoW arena takes skill, because i agree with you. I think my choice of words and formulation gave the wrong idea ;P
Dude 5v5 is not freaking MMO pvp. its a god damn minigame.
Any MMO with small scale pvp would be the same. Fuck dude guild wars does arena better than WoW.
Where the hell did all the pvpers go? We used to want massive battles that actually meant something now you guys settle for a small map 5v5?
If you don't understand why I keep saying WoW players aren't MMO players then just look at WoWs arena as proof.
Atleast you guys siege cities for achievements here and there If it wasn't for that you might as well call WoW a Co-rpg.
PLaying: EvE, Ryzom
Waiting For: Earthrise, Perpetuum
The closest thing to what you have listed would be Huxley. Although at this point i dont know if it will happen, but it is a first person shooter first, mmo second. I guess roughly like borderlands, where the hits all count on your skill, and damage and the like is determined by armor and the weapons and the like.
A full on action mmo like you describe will never be as popular and as big as games like WoW because the simple mechanics means anyone can play, and for the most part can perform like everyone else. Yes i know there is skill, and things get harder as you get more involved in PvP and gearing your character, but from a "lets appeal to as many people as possible" standpoint, that is why the combat in WoW is built the way it is.
Guild Wars
To the OP, you would have to change the game completely, it's just not going to happen. Perhaps Blizzards next mmo they will improve the combat mechanics with stuff such as no auto attack, directional attack, etcetera.
I agree with the above. Add to this you need to know all the abilities of the opponent classes for countering measures.
As to the OP: question 2 and 3: attacking from behind ignores already dodge, parry etc... and it depends on the classes how to avoid attacks (like hunters got a nice jump back feature since patch 3.1).
Random hit/crits is in every good game implemented. If not we would all be playing chess. Even in real life combat sims for troop training they are included (the bullet that misses you or just ricochet).
So no, hi level arena players in WOW must be good at eye-hand coordination and they need to know all abilities of all the classes too.
On average you use 20 to 30 keybindings per fight, because simply macros don't work in the fast arena fights and you never know the team setup of the other side in advance.
Want a real mmorpg? Play WOW with experience turned off mode and be Pve_Pvp King at any level without a rat race.
just because its competitive doesn't mean it takes skill.
cal 5v5 was awesome and yes cs does take skill, but when levels grinding and character building comes into play skill goes out the window and the person that invested the most time gets the win.
to base a game on skill every one needs to be on an equal playing field. "RPGs" or level grinding online games pretty much gets rid of that.
of course i'm not saying the pvp takes no skill, just trying to point out that character building drastically takes away from that. its more about knowledge and time invested
if you are looking for a skill based game i suggest some sort of shooter. i used to CS but its hard to find a good community playing any more and i love it too much to cheat on it with anything else like CoD5. levels in that shit boo.
i understand it doesn't take long to get to the max, but why can't i just play the full game from the start? why waste my time to get there? i do the grind 5 days a week, you know? i game to escape that.
die.
WTF are you talking about? We are discussing arenas, in WoW, which is an mmorpg. You have to have SKILL in this aspect to succeed. You cannot simply GRIND your way to an 1800 or 2200 rating. You need to be GOOD.
Dude, either you never played WoW or you're just bandwagooning the MMORPG.com heroes on this forum.
WoW's arena takes a lot of skill to play. While other games take "skill" through organisation and planning(like EvE's 0.0 space holding, L2's sieges, Darkfall combat etc), WoW takes skill through twitch and quick-thinking strategies.
You need as much twitch as a CS player to use
Counterspell
, a spell that is off the global cooldown and can change the fate of an arena match. Most gladiators have <100 ms reactions to make it work.
An other aspect would be the number of macros and decisions to make. WoW high-end arena PvP requires around 40 abilities/macros binded and you'll use all of them. All of the time you'll be: Should I CC someone? Should I kill their pet? Should I try to switch? Should I try to heal? Wait for the interrupt durations to go off then safely heal? Dispel myself? Dispel the opponents? And these are some of the many questions that you ask yourself while playing.
In addition, you'll neeed coordonation with your partner to score a kill at high-rated arena. You will not see everyone doing "their thing" like you do at low-rated arena. You'll see very well timed CC, fast switches, etc.
You cannot compare Darkfall, EvE and WoW's PvP because they're different. It's a matter of opinion and saying that one is better/worse than the other is plain retarded.
Well I cannot speak for Arenas as i dont play them, but world PvP still takes skills as it does in any game, if your more knowledgeable about your class or the class thats attacking you will probably win.
Any serious arena player has loads of resiliance which more or less removes high crits from the game so it does come down to team work, knowledge, managment, skill and as with all games a little bit of luck.
Things look to be shaken up in cata with blizzard completely redoing the talent tree, gone are the passive +%dmg and +%crit and we get as they say "more usful skills/talents".
You basicly just described Darkfall, go cheack that out man
Playing EVE
Played Darkfall, Played Wow,
Still havent found a mmo with higher skill cap than wow(yes, i played df).
Wow takes no skills is a failed attack from haters. I use 51 binds, and pretty much use every1 of em in each combat.
You wont find a mmo with so much depth and toughts in each talents and abilite as you find in wow.
WoW is a game built for the mass, who have various technical limitations, from isp to PC raw power. A game designed to allow each and every gamer to have a good time will not be able to implement features that requires NASA connections and processing power. Within that scope, I say WoW has delivered quite a solid game.
Darkfall comes to mind, ive never played it but from what ive seen and heard its the most hardcore pvp game thats out with more skill. If I wasnt playing my current game id be playing that.
Not sure what game you're playing, but WoW PvP takes skill. Or it used to, until WoTLK came out. If you play in arena, you need strategy and timing with your partner/s. You need good communication, etc.
As for suggestion 3, precent based things aren't exactly based on luck, they're based on percent. 30% crit chance mean you have about a 1 and 3 chance to score a critical hit. Not really luck, it's numbers.
TBC had its issues but I agree, it's better than this LOLIBLOWYOUP arena style.
On a bright side, they said Cataclysm will be more like TBC. Let's hope they'll be able to balance the classes properly.
TBC's pacing+WOTLK's arena representation and you got probably the most balanced PvP you can have in this type of MMORPGs.
To the Original Poster:
The three ideas that you bring up are not feasible for an MMORPG to implement after it has been released. The things that you bring up would completely break game mechanics and would make stats meaningless. Pretty much everything you want would be a strategy based first person shooter. In order to keep the "feel" of an RPG, stats/character development must still play a role in the game.