The more I see these type of threads, the more I realize MMORPG's are more about what you make of the game rather than just solely the content that's given out to people. Ultimately, in the end, what determines whether or not a person stays is whether or not they have meaningful friends/family that are playing the game with them at the time. If it isn't for community and the other players that are involved in your experience, then all you are really doing is playing an overglorified single player MMO, with generic storylines and artificial intelligence replaced by human intelligence for the characters that are supporting that person (henchmen replaced by actual players but otherwise might as well be treated as very smart/not-so-smart henchman). If you find the MMO genre stagnant, than maybe the genre isn't for you ultimately or find a good group of people to play with to enrich the experience because thats what multiplayer anything is all about anyway. Then again, I know that are other people out there that prefer the thinking done for them rather than look for it on their own.
Well once again,it shows how much FFXI went under the radar,it really shows how all the games that people play are only the ones you see advertised,so that alone proves it is all about hype.
I would say FFXi is probably too late,but FFXIV is around the corner.Yes Square Enix is an innovator not a copier and YES there games have VERY creative story lines.FFXIV promises to be really good in the cinematic and story line and it will have no leveling and will utilize left and right hand techniques while playing,so yes it will be different than the normal.It will also utilize a gauge to go for accuracy over more damage so again a slight different twist.
Honestly i am not a fanbois of any game ,as EVERY game has faults,i am sure FFXIV will have many that i don't like,but at least Square deserves some support for not being a copy cat .
What i have found is many players are plain lazy or impatient,as many have shunned Square's game because of superficial reasons like "I can't figure out this UI" "Or i hate the controls".
Let me tell you,i am not sure where these people are coming from,but i would rather play a creative game than a pile of crap that made the UI and Controls easy for a grade 3 student.Square does UI and controls right,people cannot think outside the normal box.
FFXIV is worth at least a decent effort by the OP,i mean don't give up first few days because you don't get GUILD when you press the letter G or Inventory when you press the letter" I",it's all there you have to think a little with Square's games.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
I play an MMO for the social aspects and occasional solo PvE or crafting when I'm bored. What I see as lacking in every modern MMO I've played is the player involvement in both storyline and game mechanics. Quite simply put it's social management. While I don't think any big market game would be able to handle the kind of player involvement the game I play offers, I honestly think it's possible to bring this kind of social management on a newer engine with better PvE and crafting. I play NexusTK, still have to grow tired of it. You can say all you want about it, it's old, it's horrible looking,... fact of the matter is, it still manages to captivate a small community thanks to its social management structure.
If people are bored with current MMOs it's because they don't offer anything that is original or captivating beyond the 24-48 hours of gameplay you get out of traditional games. Let's be honest here, a hardcore player will have gone through the entire content in the matter of a few months. The true advantage an MMO has over other gamegenres are the social aspects. If it were just about leveling, story and action, people would still be playing classic RPGs. People need ways to compete and work together, be it in PvE, PvP, socializing or even hoarding items or wealth. They need a way to show off their achievements to other players be it in equipment, social status or simply a list of completed quests in the corner of a screen when you click the character.
So when you're talking about an MMO revolution, I think it's clear that those people who are not really pc-gamers but picked up WoW regardless of that are ready for another experience that no other boxed MMO has to offer. Let those players work towards things to request from developpers and you'll find content beyond your imagination. The only thing I can agree on is to cater to another group of players who are not interested in the vertical leveling system even if in essence there's nothing wrong with that system given you provide continuous higher goals to achieve. There's a reason behind the success of The Sims to give just one example of people who are not catered to in todays MMOs.
Yea until TOR hits there is not much going on. Dragon Age is king now and Im getting Mass Effect 2 next. Tor may be my last MMO and for me it will be the WoW killer since after that its back to Single Player which seems to have grabbed the reigns again as the best gaming format.
I understand about all of that but all of that is controllable. The player's ability, skill, and knowledge of how to play the game are the defining factors of that. What you told there is stating my point, the players themselves determine how the game is played. Yes there are outside factors such as weather but the players ability to deal with those factors is not chance. Now to take your football analogy and turn it towarding gaming, the quarterback has full control on how hard he throws the ball yes? In an mmo with rng that throw would be random. It could come out 50 mph or 150 mph. The receiver is going to catch the 50 mph (assuming it's on target) while he wouldn't catch the 150 mph rocket. The point of removing rng in a game is so that everything is up to the player. A player chooses a skill versus another player, he knows what it is going to do. The opposing player can counter it or not, it's up to him. If you add rng to that then that rng could very well take that decision or result of it out of either players hand.
There are books on the subject of chance (uncertainty/indeterminancy) in sports and games. i can't say I'm an expert on chance (because I'm not) but the fact that there are people talking about it means that it is a noticeable factor within a game or at least worthy of discussion. If there was no indeterminancy in sports or games then all one would have to do is add up the relevant statistics and you would have your outcome. But that is not always the case. I would almost go so far as to say that to say everything can be controlled in sport is like saying everthing can be controlled in life if one was dilligent enough.
to further the OP's question, I wonder if part of the reason people are frustrated is that they are being presented with games that make one feel like they "have to" go down a certain path and therefore it feels artificial.
Another poster on this forum posted that they went back to a theme park game that they had played because they were dissapointed with everything out there. However, their approach to that game was that they would only do things that they thought were fun, would only play in a way that they thought was fun and would make up their own goals.
Quite frankly this is more or less how I play. At no point in time do I ever do things in mmo's that I don't want to do. I don't craft. I just can't get myself to do it. I don't really raid unless another is needed. But I don't seek it out. I don't have to have the best gear as long as my gear is decent.
I can run the same instances over and over if the experience is fun or just wander around and explore for a bit before it's time for me to do something else.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
It seems like bringing up statistics as a way of measuring and trying to predict an outcome is wholly separate from the idea that any happening within each game is "random".
None of the factors of a baseball game are random.
Really the word "random" itself is in many ways an acknowledgement of not having sufficient information about an event or sufficient information about the patterns behind an event, to determine its outcome.
If you had perfect knowledge of the event and of the patterns constituting it, that doesn't assume you have control over all of the patterns constituting it. If we had a perfect understanding of every single factor behind weather, and if we had perfect tools for measuring the necessary information, that still wouldn't let us control the weather. However it would give us greater control over the outcome of an event -- for example, your iPhone v1000 might tell you to step inside because in 10 seconds the first drop of rain in a downpour is going to drop on your exact location. So that information lets us change the outcome from getting wet to staying dry indoors, but doesn't give us control to manipulate the outcome to staying dry outdoors (except that we probably went inside for an umbrella; or took one with us to start with because our weather prediction is so badass.)
Less off track: games can, will, and should contain factors outside your direct control. But the more predictable these patterns are, the more enjoyable they are to discover. Of course this is tempered by the concept that once discovered the patterns quickly diminish in value -- which leaves game designers to walk a tricky middle ground between patterns which are too complex (and therefore rejected as undecipherable "noise") and those which are too simple (and rapidly uninteresting.)
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Comments
FFXIV, look it up. You have to wait a year, but time goes fast.
Crafting, PvE are few of it's main focuses.
Please don't make me laugh, the game is still in development for god's sake.
To the OP: Take a good break, or maybe find aspects of game that you never ventured into before.
And this is relevant.. why? The game is focusing on aspects this guy likes, so what the heck are you talking about?
The more I see these type of threads, the more I realize MMORPG's are more about what you make of the game rather than just solely the content that's given out to people. Ultimately, in the end, what determines whether or not a person stays is whether or not they have meaningful friends/family that are playing the game with them at the time. If it isn't for community and the other players that are involved in your experience, then all you are really doing is playing an overglorified single player MMO, with generic storylines and artificial intelligence replaced by human intelligence for the characters that are supporting that person (henchmen replaced by actual players but otherwise might as well be treated as very smart/not-so-smart henchman). If you find the MMO genre stagnant, than maybe the genre isn't for you ultimately or find a good group of people to play with to enrich the experience because thats what multiplayer anything is all about anyway. Then again, I know that are other people out there that prefer the thinking done for them rather than look for it on their own.
Well once again,it shows how much FFXI went under the radar,it really shows how all the games that people play are only the ones you see advertised,so that alone proves it is all about hype.
I would say FFXi is probably too late,but FFXIV is around the corner.Yes Square Enix is an innovator not a copier and YES there games have VERY creative story lines.FFXIV promises to be really good in the cinematic and story line and it will have no leveling and will utilize left and right hand techniques while playing,so yes it will be different than the normal.It will also utilize a gauge to go for accuracy over more damage so again a slight different twist.
Honestly i am not a fanbois of any game ,as EVERY game has faults,i am sure FFXIV will have many that i don't like,but at least Square deserves some support for not being a copy cat .
What i have found is many players are plain lazy or impatient,as many have shunned Square's game because of superficial reasons like "I can't figure out this UI" "Or i hate the controls".
Let me tell you,i am not sure where these people are coming from,but i would rather play a creative game than a pile of crap that made the UI and Controls easy for a grade 3 student.Square does UI and controls right,people cannot think outside the normal box.
FFXIV is worth at least a decent effort by the OP,i mean don't give up first few days because you don't get GUILD when you press the letter G or Inventory when you press the letter" I",it's all there you have to think a little with Square's games.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
not a MMORPG
With the state of today's shit MMOs, that could be an advantage.
I play an MMO for the social aspects and occasional solo PvE or crafting when I'm bored. What I see as lacking in every modern MMO I've played is the player involvement in both storyline and game mechanics. Quite simply put it's social management. While I don't think any big market game would be able to handle the kind of player involvement the game I play offers, I honestly think it's possible to bring this kind of social management on a newer engine with better PvE and crafting. I play NexusTK, still have to grow tired of it. You can say all you want about it, it's old, it's horrible looking,... fact of the matter is, it still manages to captivate a small community thanks to its social management structure.
If people are bored with current MMOs it's because they don't offer anything that is original or captivating beyond the 24-48 hours of gameplay you get out of traditional games. Let's be honest here, a hardcore player will have gone through the entire content in the matter of a few months. The true advantage an MMO has over other gamegenres are the social aspects. If it were just about leveling, story and action, people would still be playing classic RPGs. People need ways to compete and work together, be it in PvE, PvP, socializing or even hoarding items or wealth. They need a way to show off their achievements to other players be it in equipment, social status or simply a list of completed quests in the corner of a screen when you click the character.
So when you're talking about an MMO revolution, I think it's clear that those people who are not really pc-gamers but picked up WoW regardless of that are ready for another experience that no other boxed MMO has to offer. Let those players work towards things to request from developpers and you'll find content beyond your imagination. The only thing I can agree on is to cater to another group of players who are not interested in the vertical leveling system even if in essence there's nothing wrong with that system given you provide continuous higher goals to achieve. There's a reason behind the success of The Sims to give just one example of people who are not catered to in todays MMOs.
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Yea until TOR hits there is not much going on. Dragon Age is king now and Im getting Mass Effect 2 next. Tor may be my last MMO and for me it will be the WoW killer since after that its back to Single Player which seems to have grabbed the reigns again as the best gaming format.
There are books on the subject of chance (uncertainty/indeterminancy) in sports and games. i can't say I'm an expert on chance (because I'm not) but the fact that there are people talking about it means that it is a noticeable factor within a game or at least worthy of discussion. If there was no indeterminancy in sports or games then all one would have to do is add up the relevant statistics and you would have your outcome. But that is not always the case. I would almost go so far as to say that to say everything can be controlled in sport is like saying everthing can be controlled in life if one was dilligent enough.
http://www.amazon.com/Curve-Ball-Baseball-Statistics-Chance/dp/0387988165
http://www.amazon.com/Mathematician-Ballpark-Odds-Probabilities-Baseball/dp/0452287820/ref=pd_sim_b_18
http://understandinguncertainty.org/node/440
http://www.jstor.org/pss/3650322
to further the OP's question, I wonder if part of the reason people are frustrated is that they are being presented with games that make one feel like they "have to" go down a certain path and therefore it feels artificial.
Another poster on this forum posted that they went back to a theme park game that they had played because they were dissapointed with everything out there. However, their approach to that game was that they would only do things that they thought were fun, would only play in a way that they thought was fun and would make up their own goals.
Quite frankly this is more or less how I play. At no point in time do I ever do things in mmo's that I don't want to do. I don't craft. I just can't get myself to do it. I don't really raid unless another is needed. But I don't seek it out. I don't have to have the best gear as long as my gear is decent.
I can run the same instances over and over if the experience is fun or just wander around and explore for a bit before it's time for me to do something else.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
It seems like bringing up statistics as a way of measuring and trying to predict an outcome is wholly separate from the idea that any happening within each game is "random".
None of the factors of a baseball game are random.
Really the word "random" itself is in many ways an acknowledgement of not having sufficient information about an event or sufficient information about the patterns behind an event, to determine its outcome.
If you had perfect knowledge of the event and of the patterns constituting it, that doesn't assume you have control over all of the patterns constituting it. If we had a perfect understanding of every single factor behind weather, and if we had perfect tools for measuring the necessary information, that still wouldn't let us control the weather. However it would give us greater control over the outcome of an event -- for example, your iPhone v1000 might tell you to step inside because in 10 seconds the first drop of rain in a downpour is going to drop on your exact location. So that information lets us change the outcome from getting wet to staying dry indoors, but doesn't give us control to manipulate the outcome to staying dry outdoors (except that we probably went inside for an umbrella; or took one with us to start with because our weather prediction is so badass.)
Less off track: games can, will, and should contain factors outside your direct control. But the more predictable these patterns are, the more enjoyable they are to discover. Of course this is tempered by the concept that once discovered the patterns quickly diminish in value -- which leaves game designers to walk a tricky middle ground between patterns which are too complex (and therefore rejected as undecipherable "noise") and those which are too simple (and rapidly uninteresting.)
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
time to get a life?
have you tried vanguard or EQ2?