No matter what Blizzard does, the hardcore players will ALWAYS complain about the difficulty until Blizzard makes an encounter that is literally unbeatable. The problem is that the majority of those players don't actually give a damn about how hard the encounters are. All they care about is the loot and how exclusive it is. They complain about the difficulty not because they want a bigger challenge but because they want to show off some gear no one else has. If Blizzard made the easiest raid encounter ever seen and made everything on its loot table only ever drop ONCE per server I doubt the ensuing complaints would have anything to do with it's difficulty and I doubt the victors would be complaining at all. They should just release a world boss like Absolute Virtue from FFXI. He's still not been legitimately beaten in years as far as I know. The only successful cases used exploits I think. If Blizzard did that then all the hardcore players wouldn't have a leg to stand on with these 'complaints'.
your right an unbeatable world boss would be perfect but there would be so many player there server lag would be too much probably why blizzard never did an unbeatable world boss
You can make WoW as hard as you want. One way is to limit yourself to wearing only blues, no purples. We had a blast doing heroics in just greens. CC was required in that situation. Mana management was a huge issue. Levels 1 to 79 are tutorial levels that teach you how to play your toon. The real game in WoW is at 80.
lol lock lvl at 60 do all run ,the lock at 70 do all run in bc you ll see it is easier but they are still hard
dear blizzard im a current wow subscriber and have 1 80 and a 65. i love warcraft and theres a reason it has 11 million subs but ttheres one thing and i think vet wow payers can agree. BRING BACK THE CHALLENGE . now anyone can get epics or do raids, bring challenge back into the game make legendery weapons and make the players work. BRINGING ONY FOR 80S WAS GENIUS DO IT FOR EVERYTHING ELSE because i played wow in bc and in original, hell the gear was shit but it was damn worth the work getting it.
joe chiaramonte a loveing subscriber
It would be meaningless for Blizz to address your appeal b/c you hardly understand what challenge means.
You think that long hours of grinding the same instance in hope of a rare drop is challenge? That is all you understand? In that case, I am grateful Blizz turn their back to you. Many WoW gamers have told you the answer. Get the achievements. Work out the mechanics behind each class, each aspect and write us some discussions. Be the first to work out ways to beat hard bosses. That is a challenge, and from the way you write, I do not think you are up to that. The best challenge for you is to spam here and pretend you are ... whatever.
Show us what "challenge" you have tackled ... oh well never mind, you won't understand. Keep trolling.
No matter what Blizzard does, the hardcore players will ALWAYS complain about the difficulty until Blizzard makes an encounter that is literally unbeatable. The problem is that the majority of those players don't actually give a damn about how hard the encounters are. All they care about is the loot and how exclusive it is. They complain about the difficulty not because they want a bigger challenge but because they want to show off some gear no one else has. If Blizzard made the easiest raid encounter ever seen and made everything on its loot table only ever drop ONCE per server I doubt the ensuing complaints would have anything to do with it's difficulty and I doubt the victors would be complaining at all. They should just release a world boss like Absolute Virtue from FFXI. He's still not been legitimately beaten in years as far as I know. The only successful cases used exploits I think. If Blizzard did that then all the hardcore players wouldn't have a leg to stand on with these 'complaints'.
Those who seriously know about the game mechanics would hardly give a damn about these epeen players. Those who do the maths and minimax usually work with 3-4 sets of gear matching the 2 talents trees. The sets are swaps for different bosses and different raid composition. In simple terms there is NO singles best gear or set in general.
Second, the difference between say ilvl245 and ilvl232 is not that ground breaking for one piece. Actually for many classes, the BiS might not be the ilvl245 piece for certain set/combos. Take a healer, some goes for haste, some goes for SP, some goes for MP5, some goes for combinations. The best gear depends on the purpose of the gear/set.
Showing off gear with no idea or theme in gearing = pure epeens. That is exactly where the current gearscore stupidity goes. When people start talking about gearscore or gear without a plan, its time to put him on ignore.
i never said anything about restricting content for hardcore gamers BUT, let blizzard do what it does make a roaming boss encounter that appeals to a certain type of gamer like everything else they do does
There are roaming bosses, though not at end game. At the starter zones there is always a max level eite mob roaming around. When I was 60 and started levelling in the starting camp thrallmar (?) the level 70 elite mob eat me many times. When I was 70 and started my life outside Explorer's league outpost, the level 80 elite mob that wanders around trample me so many times it is not funny.
While that boss is no longer dangerous now, it was in those days a real challenge for a bunch of 70s trying to level up.
Originally posted by Binny45 Instead, you have a group of 40 mediocre copies of various classes, dancing in pre-laid out steps following some strategy guide online so they can get phat lewts.
I agree about that, the AI of all MMO mobs are weak but that is a general problem in every single MMO. The raid boss should act like a real person and not just be defeated with a certain tactic that works every time, so should all mobs in a game act. You shouldn't just raise the hitpoints and immunities of bosses, making them smarter makes the challenge a lot harder.
But that isn't really relevant in this case since it is a problem that all MMOs, at least the one with raiding share.
The only acceptable AI in any MMO I seen is in Guildwars, the mobs are at least not totaly retarded there.
But let's stay on topic here.
While I appreciate your reasoning, I have 2 view to offer as reply.
If the boss is as smart as a real person, he is just a pvp encounter. Go play a pvp or a duel.
If the boss is as smart as I am but have 5 billion hp (know how to focus fire, heal himself and pick out our clothies first ...) while I have 20k, well even if he hits as hard as I do, I think it will take some 20000 players to fight him or 200 hours of non stop fighting with a team of 25 (exaggerated). Neither will work. I remember the old EQ days, there is a Lady Vox or something that can fully heal herself. If that heal is not interrupted, it is another 5 minutes dpsing. Not fun.
So, if you want unpredictable human AI form of combat, duel or pvp. If you want scripted encounter (some with randomness, like random charges from bosses), that is what the current raids are. Can there be something in between? or even better some new ways of doing it? Sure, who has a better idea?
Theres plenty of challenge in Wow IF YOU CHOOSE TO DO IT! Only 1 person in the world has completed all completable achievements http://www.wow.com/2009/12/03/taiwanese-player-earns-all-of-the-achievements/ Only 3 guilds in the world have complete the A Tribute to Immortality achievement (ToGC - reach a Tribute Chest with 50 attempts remaining and without allowing any raid member to die during any of the boss encounters in 25-player mode.) http://www.mmo-champion.com/news-2/patch-3-3-world-3rd-tribute-to-immortality-blue-posts/ Challenge is there if players choose to do it. In regards to the roamingoutside bosses there where 5 none instanced bosses in WoW, the dragon in Azhara the 3 dargons that came through the portals also lard kazak in Blasted lands.. who also returned for TBC. I guess Blizzard deemed them usless in the larger scheme of things and didin't continue with it. I cannot find the post but for TBC blizzard planned magtheridon to be an outside boss but later decided to instance him. So for what ever reason I dont think we'll see outside bosses in WoW.. it was tried and blizzard decided not to go that route.
This kind of challenge is like beating a game and not to die even once, or getting to max level naked, without armors and weapons. It has nothing to do with the actual gameplay. We're talking about an MMORPG, a type of game supposed to be played for months if not years.
There's currently 80 levels of experience in WoW, and it takes a few days to get to the max level. Then the fun starts, they say. You should realise that 'the end-game' is actually the time sink, something you can grind when everything else has been done. You have already beaten the game when you reach that point.
Many WoW players wish you could have an instant lvl 80 toons to get to 'the fun part' asap. Somehow i find this strange for a game which has developing characters, experience levels, and tons of content for levels 1-79. Get rid of the levels altogether if you design a game for gear grind only.
The bottom line is, an MMOG dont need to be hard, but most players seek an entertainment value for a bit longer than two months.
Depending on what you want. If you care only for the max level gear chase or raids, yes rush to max.
If you want to get as many achievements as you can, maybe plan accordingly and do the achievements, crafting as you level. That is going to be more efficient, as many achievements are rooted in the lower level activities.
Do you believe you can handle your character well if you start instantly as level 80 and fight the big badies? Do you even recognise the buttons? 2 months? It takes more than 2 months just understanding the complexity behind the maths and minimax models. Of course, after maxing 2-3 alts, and working out the heal, tank and range/melee dps roles, you know enough to tackle the 4th max level alt, but that is another story.
WoW is a game you can pick up easily. But to minimax and develop? It has a deep model, with lots of rules and math functions that can easily fill a book or 2. Do you need to go so deep to play? No. Just log and shoot whatever you can manage and run away if you cannot take the heat. Does these math models make a difference? yes, if you minimax, you can increase your throughput by 200% -300% easily.
blizzard as the same issue as before tho,only pro do advanced content ,its worst then before,why?because now player can check if you did it before.like achievement etc so blizzard problem wich made the game easier to play isnt solved still 80% (proof?) of player dont see end game since blizzard goal is to make end game content avail to everybody and not just top 20% ,blizzard will prob nerf it again. unless blizzard decide to lock endgame and only alway trough group that have 30 % noob in them in the end !itwill probably be the only way pro run it once then they have to run it in a blizzard decided group if you leave group ,you shut out from raid for a week in the end its probably the only way everybody can see end game .we see ton of lfg and they dont find ,why? dont be bad ,fast run,show achievement. yet those same player will say its too easy ,i say stop whinning about wow behing too easy and go pug run with regular joe you ll see how hard it can be pre-pre-pre planning is so boring i stopped running planned group a long time ago i would rater pug raid when raidert are like minded .ho its a bitch its hard as hell but way more satisfying
Proof? Have you been kicked out of a guild or raid b/c of some reasons?
Who is a pro that run it once and ... whatever crap you trying to talk. You see tons of lfg and they don't find? How many raids were run every day? How many times instance servers were full? How many compared to the lfg spams in /2? You got any statistics?
Pre planning is boring so you stopped planned runs. That about explains why you see lfg spams. For those who have planned activities, /2 is only used for trades, not spamming lfgs.
If you have a regular raiding guild and some good friends, most of the time you are too busy with them to bother PUG.
blizzard as the same issue as before tho,only pro do advanced content ,its worst then before,why?because now player can check if you did it before.like achievement etc so blizzard problem wich made the game easier to play isnt solved still 80% of player dont see end game since blizzard goal is to make end game content avail to everybody and not just top 20% ,blizzard will prob nerf it again. unless blizzard decide to lock endgame and only alway trough group that have 30 % noob in them in the end !itwill probably be the only way pro run it once then they have to run it in a blizzard decided group if you leave group ,you shut out from raid for a week in the end its probably the only way everybody can see end game .we see ton of lfg and they dont find ,why? dont be bad ,fast run,show achievement. yet those same player will say its too easy ,i say stop whinning about wow behing too easy and go pug run with regular joe you ll see how hard it can be pre-pre-pre planning is so boring i stopped running planned group a long time ago i would rater pug raid when raidert are like minded .ho its a bitch its hard as hell but way more satisfying
I guess you are a defender of the randomized PUG's in the new clustered dungeon servers (in patch 3.3).
They didn't say no yet to future Raid implementation.
This is the road to future long lasting MMORPG play btw: 24/7 play with PUG's.
That's why Diablo3 wil take more and more the form of a limited mmorpg.
dont about 3.3 but if its you get the first run as you like and then you got to do a run as blizzard want kind of thing im all for it
the idea is to include new or old player that are shy and wont insist or force anybody . there are ton of people that havent seen end game ,how they see those content ?
if a nice soul stream on xfire or else where then the 80% that dont see end game will see it
do you think blizzard is happy seeing their best work go to waste on some server or being seen by only 20%
blizzard knows the problem isnt the difficulty now but the wow comunity
we ll see when cataclysm hit what they do. i do hope they find a way to include the majority of player that are excluded by the minority of player
You keep telling us 80% has not seen end game. Which end game? Anub at ToGC25? or step into ToC10/25? Be specific.
Not everyone want to raid ToGC, not even alt needs to go. I have 6 lvl 65+ alts that are pure crafter, one of them is lvl 80 b/c I hit max level just doing the crafting daily. He is naked, and so he will never go to ToC, that counts as an 80 that does not see the final boss, and I upset? No, I have other 80s that does raids.
WoW is a game that does not force anyone to do anything. I know of friends in the old days who never level past level 19, 29, 39, 49, 59 and so on, having 1 alt each in that level, twink and pvp. He does not feel forced to go to max level. Who is forcing you to max? My crafter alts ranges from level 65 to 80, just for the sake of getting the recipes. Not forced to level at all.
Stop worrying about other gamers. Stop pretending you are here to speak for them for fight for their well being. Let them work out what game is best for them and which way to play what games. I wonder how you know who is excluded from what gameplay. I wonder where you get those convenient percentages.
Apparently you never played today's WOW's scaled PVE end game and arena competition. It is where it differs from the others in time grinding. A ladder based PvP competition is ALL about challenge and rankings. If you don't see the obvious attraction to that, ...don't watch ANY sports or ANY ranked based competition.
I have played it, but i'm not particulary interested in that kind of a gameplay. The game has changed drastically in past years. I bought a radically different WoW than what it is now, and somehow I feel being cheated by Blizzard. If one buys a flight simulator game and after two years it changes to FIFA 2009, you have right to get mad, don't you.
There are lots of people who love the WoWs end-game. I just wonder why do you need 80 levels of questing to get there? They have already removed everything else that was left of a great MMORPG. Face it, it's only a yet another arcade game today.
That's the feeling I described above coming from old fashioned mmorpg lovers. I understand you.
Blizzard brought the video game element in mmorpg land. And some of the boys don't like it. Level to level is just old fashion and of course it is boring.
But it is also a mentality of the said player: ---- > Just grab a new fresh character on a new server and start from scratch: you'll end up having very nice adventures (and with patch 3.3 even full time group based ones).
Let's see : I started one (20 hours played now and just got level 17 (but played as it should be without add ons and topped professions, that means to me hunting for that rare silver mine right now ... and just in time for the cross server dungeons).
I'll let you know how much time I played when dinging 80 (but I plan to do it all). My guess it that played like that you'll still need 300-400 hours to end game, which on a casual basis is 3 calander months.
The choice is yours if you want to include heirlooms, boosts and account free leveling, but you can easely play without and enjoy the ride ... now or in Cata ...
And then ... the game begins indeed.
But it doesn't have to be like that. Currently in WoW you get to the end game pretty fast, then run lvl 80 dungeons and raids for months.
What if you were required to run Deadmines for 5-10 times to gear up for the next dungeon? Then run that for a few times to gear up for the next, etc..
If a player finds that dungeon too hard, he could do some quests and get few more levels and try again. Same way you could gear up in those old raids: next expansion pack raises the level cap = a raid gets easier. Every player will see the content and no content needs to go obsolate.
This way you dont have to play same dungeons for months and wait for the next expansion to come, and developers have more time to create new content.
they could have done that with lvl 60 dungeon and raid
like you need to find a lvl 60 group and do all vanilla wow dungeon and raid in order to progress
why do i suggest that?lets face it most of the 80s proof? can barelly clear silithus raid so if we had to do those dungeon and raid at lvl 60 ,then the end game one at lvl 70 and after that progress we wouldnt have all the issue we face and we would have lot more fun
check your achievement !when was the last time you did the leeeeroy achievement at 60.i was mean for lvl 60 check your knowledge about WoW, what level were us when achievement was introduced?
most 80 have a very hard time to do it ,no wander when we hit 80 ,70% proof? of player cant find end game group for most 25 player raid
Proof? That many raiders skip the lvl 60 dungeon means it is too easy or too hard? Got any material proof besides pure speculations and rants?
Take an analogy. I did not take TOEFA, I took my SAT years ago and finish all post-grads 25+ years ago. Do I feel the need to go back and take TOEFA? Ok, so you said, most of the graduates and post-graduates on earth (which includes > USA) skipped TOEFA, proving that they all will fail in TOEFA. Good observation.
Fact is, by the time achievement comes out we were all working on level 80 gear. At level 80 with my gear do I need to go back to do the old dungeons? If I do not care about that achievement, I move on.
Oh yeah, I need to be worried b/c you suspect I am incapable of doing it. I need to prove to you. Big deal.
Comments
your right an unbeatable world boss would be perfect but there would be so many player there server lag would be too much probably why blizzard never did an unbeatable world boss
same on our server we got 2 guild that cleared
and people say its too easy lolits been what 4 month 5 since release of toc
its not easy ,most player have a hard time pugging toc lol let alone 10 or 25
you want a challenge do pug toc you will see any easy fight become very hard when its a pug run
lol lock lvl at 60 do all run ,the lock at 70 do all run in bc you ll see it is easier but they are still hard
It would be meaningless for Blizz to address your appeal b/c you hardly understand what challenge means.
You think that long hours of grinding the same instance in hope of a rare drop is challenge? That is all you understand? In that case, I am grateful Blizz turn their back to you. Many WoW gamers have told you the answer. Get the achievements. Work out the mechanics behind each class, each aspect and write us some discussions. Be the first to work out ways to beat hard bosses. That is a challenge, and from the way you write, I do not think you are up to that. The best challenge for you is to spam here and pretend you are ... whatever.
Show us what "challenge" you have tackled ... oh well never mind, you won't understand. Keep trolling.
Those who seriously know about the game mechanics would hardly give a damn about these epeen players. Those who do the maths and minimax usually work with 3-4 sets of gear matching the 2 talents trees. The sets are swaps for different bosses and different raid composition. In simple terms there is NO singles best gear or set in general.
Second, the difference between say ilvl245 and ilvl232 is not that ground breaking for one piece. Actually for many classes, the BiS might not be the ilvl245 piece for certain set/combos. Take a healer, some goes for haste, some goes for SP, some goes for MP5, some goes for combinations. The best gear depends on the purpose of the gear/set.
Showing off gear with no idea or theme in gearing = pure epeens. That is exactly where the current gearscore stupidity goes. When people start talking about gearscore or gear without a plan, its time to put him on ignore.
There are roaming bosses, though not at end game. At the starter zones there is always a max level eite mob roaming around. When I was 60 and started levelling in the starting camp thrallmar (?) the level 70 elite mob eat me many times. When I was 70 and started my life outside Explorer's league outpost, the level 80 elite mob that wanders around trample me so many times it is not funny.
While that boss is no longer dangerous now, it was in those days a real challenge for a bunch of 70s trying to level up.
I agree about that, the AI of all MMO mobs are weak but that is a general problem in every single MMO. The raid boss should act like a real person and not just be defeated with a certain tactic that works every time, so should all mobs in a game act. You shouldn't just raise the hitpoints and immunities of bosses, making them smarter makes the challenge a lot harder.
But that isn't really relevant in this case since it is a problem that all MMOs, at least the one with raiding share.
The only acceptable AI in any MMO I seen is in Guildwars, the mobs are at least not totaly retarded there.
But let's stay on topic here.
While I appreciate your reasoning, I have 2 view to offer as reply.
If the boss is as smart as a real person, he is just a pvp encounter. Go play a pvp or a duel.
If the boss is as smart as I am but have 5 billion hp (know how to focus fire, heal himself and pick out our clothies first ...) while I have 20k, well even if he hits as hard as I do, I think it will take some 20000 players to fight him or 200 hours of non stop fighting with a team of 25 (exaggerated). Neither will work. I remember the old EQ days, there is a Lady Vox or something that can fully heal herself. If that heal is not interrupted, it is another 5 minutes dpsing. Not fun.
So, if you want unpredictable human AI form of combat, duel or pvp. If you want scripted encounter (some with randomness, like random charges from bosses), that is what the current raids are. Can there be something in between? or even better some new ways of doing it? Sure, who has a better idea?
This kind of challenge is like beating a game and not to die even once, or getting to max level naked, without armors and weapons. It has nothing to do with the actual gameplay. We're talking about an MMORPG, a type of game supposed to be played for months if not years.
There's currently 80 levels of experience in WoW, and it takes a few days to get to the max level. Then the fun starts, they say. You should realise that 'the end-game' is actually the time sink, something you can grind when everything else has been done. You have already beaten the game when you reach that point.
Many WoW players wish you could have an instant lvl 80 toons to get to 'the fun part' asap. Somehow i find this strange for a game which has developing characters, experience levels, and tons of content for levels 1-79. Get rid of the levels altogether if you design a game for gear grind only.
The bottom line is, an MMOG dont need to be hard, but most players seek an entertainment value for a bit longer than two months.
Depending on what you want. If you care only for the max level gear chase or raids, yes rush to max.
If you want to get as many achievements as you can, maybe plan accordingly and do the achievements, crafting as you level. That is going to be more efficient, as many achievements are rooted in the lower level activities.
Do you believe you can handle your character well if you start instantly as level 80 and fight the big badies? Do you even recognise the buttons? 2 months? It takes more than 2 months just understanding the complexity behind the maths and minimax models. Of course, after maxing 2-3 alts, and working out the heal, tank and range/melee dps roles, you know enough to tackle the 4th max level alt, but that is another story.
WoW is a game you can pick up easily. But to minimax and develop? It has a deep model, with lots of rules and math functions that can easily fill a book or 2. Do you need to go so deep to play? No. Just log and shoot whatever you can manage and run away if you cannot take the heat. Does these math models make a difference? yes, if you minimax, you can increase your throughput by 200% -300% easily.
Proof? Have you been kicked out of a guild or raid b/c of some reasons?
Who is a pro that run it once and ... whatever crap you trying to talk. You see tons of lfg and they don't find? How many raids were run every day? How many times instance servers were full? How many compared to the lfg spams in /2? You got any statistics?
Pre planning is boring so you stopped planned runs. That about explains why you see lfg spams. For those who have planned activities, /2 is only used for trades, not spamming lfgs.
If you have a regular raiding guild and some good friends, most of the time you are too busy with them to bother PUG.
I guess you are a defender of the randomized PUG's in the new clustered dungeon servers (in patch 3.3).
They didn't say no yet to future Raid implementation.
This is the road to future long lasting MMORPG play btw: 24/7 play with PUG's.
That's why Diablo3 wil take more and more the form of a limited mmorpg.
dont about 3.3 but if its you get the first run as you like and then you got to do a run as blizzard want kind of thing im all for it
the idea is to include new or old player that are shy and wont insist or force anybody . there are ton of people that havent seen end game ,how they see those content ?
if a nice soul stream on xfire or else where then the 80% that dont see end game will see it
do you think blizzard is happy seeing their best work go to waste on some server or being seen by only 20%
blizzard knows the problem isnt the difficulty now but the wow comunity
we ll see when cataclysm hit what they do. i do hope they find a way to include the majority of player that are excluded by the minority of player
You keep telling us 80% has not seen end game. Which end game? Anub at ToGC25? or step into ToC10/25? Be specific.
Not everyone want to raid ToGC, not even alt needs to go. I have 6 lvl 65+ alts that are pure crafter, one of them is lvl 80 b/c I hit max level just doing the crafting daily. He is naked, and so he will never go to ToC, that counts as an 80 that does not see the final boss, and I upset? No, I have other 80s that does raids.
WoW is a game that does not force anyone to do anything. I know of friends in the old days who never level past level 19, 29, 39, 49, 59 and so on, having 1 alt each in that level, twink and pvp. He does not feel forced to go to max level. Who is forcing you to max? My crafter alts ranges from level 65 to 80, just for the sake of getting the recipes. Not forced to level at all.
Stop worrying about other gamers. Stop pretending you are here to speak for them for fight for their well being. Let them work out what game is best for them and which way to play what games. I wonder how you know who is excluded from what gameplay. I wonder where you get those convenient percentages.
I have played it, but i'm not particulary interested in that kind of a gameplay. The game has changed drastically in past years. I bought a radically different WoW than what it is now, and somehow I feel being cheated by Blizzard. If one buys a flight simulator game and after two years it changes to FIFA 2009, you have right to get mad, don't you.
There are lots of people who love the WoWs end-game. I just wonder why do you need 80 levels of questing to get there? They have already removed everything else that was left of a great MMORPG. Face it, it's only a yet another arcade game today.
That's the feeling I described above coming from old fashioned mmorpg lovers. I understand you.
Blizzard brought the video game element in mmorpg land. And some of the boys don't like it. Level to level is just old fashion and of course it is boring.
But it is also a mentality of the said player: ---- > Just grab a new fresh character on a new server and start from scratch: you'll end up having very nice adventures (and with patch 3.3 even full time group based ones).
Let's see : I started one (20 hours played now and just got level 17 (but played as it should be without add ons and topped professions, that means to me hunting for that rare silver mine right now ... and just in time for the cross server dungeons).
I'll let you know how much time I played when dinging 80 (but I plan to do it all). My guess it that played like that you'll still need 300-400 hours to end game, which on a casual basis is 3 calander months.
The choice is yours if you want to include heirlooms, boosts and account free leveling, but you can easely play without and enjoy the ride ... now or in Cata ...
And then ... the game begins indeed.
But it doesn't have to be like that. Currently in WoW you get to the end game pretty fast, then run lvl 80 dungeons and raids for months.
What if you were required to run Deadmines for 5-10 times to gear up for the next dungeon? Then run that for a few times to gear up for the next, etc..
If a player finds that dungeon too hard, he could do some quests and get few more levels and try again. Same way you could gear up in those old raids: next expansion pack raises the level cap = a raid gets easier. Every player will see the content and no content needs to go obsolate.
This way you dont have to play same dungeons for months and wait for the next expansion to come, and developers have more time to create new content.
they could have done that with lvl 60 dungeon and raid
like you need to find a lvl 60 group and do all vanilla wow dungeon and raid in order to progress
why do i suggest that?lets face it most of the 80s proof? can barelly clear silithus raid so if we had to do those dungeon and raid at lvl 60 ,then the end game one at lvl 70 and after that progress we wouldnt have all the issue we face and we would have lot more fun
check your achievement !when was the last time you did the leeeeroy achievement at 60.i was mean for lvl 60 check your knowledge about WoW, what level were us when achievement was introduced?
most 80 have a very hard time to do it ,no wander when we hit 80 ,70% proof? of player cant find end game group for most 25 player raid
Proof? That many raiders skip the lvl 60 dungeon means it is too easy or too hard? Got any material proof besides pure speculations and rants?
Take an analogy. I did not take TOEFA, I took my SAT years ago and finish all post-grads 25+ years ago. Do I feel the need to go back and take TOEFA? Ok, so you said, most of the graduates and post-graduates on earth (which includes > USA) skipped TOEFA, proving that they all will fail in TOEFA. Good observation.
Fact is, by the time achievement comes out we were all working on level 80 gear. At level 80 with my gear do I need to go back to do the old dungeons? If I do not care about that achievement, I move on.
Oh yeah, I need to be worried b/c you suspect I am incapable of doing it. I need to prove to you. Big deal.