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Interesting note on Shared Death Penalty
dsorrent
Member CommonPosts: 1,627
in Everquest II
Apparently this is an internal debate going on if it should stay or go.
The latest is that they have added a "survey" into Beta that pops up when you login asking what you think of the Shared Death Penalty. So... it looks like those who are in Beta will play a huge factor in the outcome of this decision.
[EDIT Clarification: It's a radio button choice from 1-5 with "I dislike it" and "I like it" on each end of the spectrum.]
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Comments
What exactly is the shared death penalty? Sounds interestin'.
Mentat
When you die you get an experience debt to pay off (not a big one) so you gain experience slower.
When you are in a group and one or more of your companions die you share some of their experience debt.
there was another thread that talked about this. IMO i love it. it's a great idea. why? am i crazy?
naw.
healers pov:
if the tanks can not keep agro off the healers and they die, they should be responsible at least a little bit for their death
tanks pov:
if the healers can't do their job in keeping them healed, then they should be responsible at least a little when they die
it's a give and take kinda thing. it also weeds out the idiotic. you're not going to want to keep a person in a group that keeps doing stupid stuff and dying. this teaches them that if they want to group, they at least have to pay attention and listen to the rest of the group.
that being said, if you have a group with an IQ over a monkey, the group death penalty is hardly noticeable. people die, but the penalty is not as harsh as some are thinking. one person dies in a group of 4 (the penalty is evenly spread between group members), they get their shard back (which clears up 90% of it anyways), and about 5 min. later, it's all gone. if your entire group gets wiped, that's the equivalent of you dying once solo. same goes for when everyone gets their shards back.
just keep to good groups and it won't be a problem.
EQ2 Mantra: Get more RAM. Get more RAM.
Not in the beta but the shared DP sounds a interesting nd different idea, I quite like the sound of it
Things like this is also why I believe that you only have 4 character slots total across all servers. Or at least part of the reaosn why you are so limited in slots to make people more responsible for their actions. If someone does something stupid like that and they have no excuse (sometimes a key gets locked and you can't stop moving forward. I've had this happen to me before and seen it happen to others) and simply dont listen to the group then kick them and don't ever group with them again. This would cause those people to straight up I believe since the number of characters they can fall back on might be limited unless they want to delete and start over. I think this also goes for those that act like jerks. Since you don't exactly need a certain class for things (just have to fill the archetype roll and several classes fit that role) you don't have to take certain people if they act a certain way if you don't want to since you have so many more choices to pick from now in terms of classes that tend to be similar and yet different in ways.
I happen like the shared exp and the spirit shards to be honest.
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EQ2 Qeynos Guild- http://www.imperium-arcanum.com
I dont know why, but I love the idea of shared death penalty, its amazing!
Signaturen-Creator
I *love* group XP debt. With grouping as necessary as it is, group XP debt is great.
Pros:
- More people will be willing to tank.
- It makes sure the healer pays attention, or else it is his ass along with others.
- When one person dies in a 6-man party, it is only 1/6th of the XP debt from a normal death. This can be worked off very fast.
- It makes the party work together. Instead of someing saying, "Well, I could taunt this mob off the tank, but then I might die, and end up with XP debt", instead they say, "No, I don't want the tank to die! then I get XP debt, too, so I have to do whatever I can do to save the tank's life!"
Cons:
- It may make the entire party mad when someone dies, instead of only the eprson who dies.
- More pressure on the healer(though this is also a pro), because if one person dies the whole group takes a hit.
Overall I think it is a very good idea. Though there are some problems with it that will hopefully be fixed before release:
- You can get XP debt from someone across the map, but you don't get XP from the kills(risk vs. reward sort of).
- You can get XP while dead, but no XP.
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"There is no reason anyone would want a computer in their home."
-- Ken Olson, chairman of Digital Equipment Corp, 1977
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"There is no reason anyone would want a computer in their home."
-- Ken Olson, chairman of Digital Equipment Corp, 1977
This "Self exp Debt" idea is being used in City of Heroes. Ummm... I personally dont feel any different from the "Die and Lost Exp" system in EQ 1. Its just you know how much (the exact number) exp you lost. and you have to cover those you lost first before you start getting new exp. But in City of Heroes, you wont lost your level no matter how much debt you got, but I dont think this will be happened in EQ2.
about the "shared exp debt", I would disagree with this.
There are many cases to cause a character to dies, like he AFK without notify his groupmates and group moved, left him alone and got killed. This happen alot in EQ1. and if thats the player's fault that cause himself got killed, I dont think its fair that the whole group shared the exp debt.
This is how the Poll needs to be:
How do you feel about the shared death penalty?
1. I love it!
2. I like it.
3. I don't care either way.
4. I don't like it.
5. I hate it.
Then, at the same time...
What class do you play?
1. Melee
2. Caster
I bet you start to notice a pattern.
I personally like the shared exp debt. But I think more than that I am loving the fact that it looks as though SOE is actually taking player input on an issue. I think this may be a good indication that we will at least get dueling back eventually and maybe have some kind of cool pvp implemented at some time... Oh well, just empty hopes.
Anyway, does anyone know how the issue stands on the beta boards? Is the majority for or against?
Edit: I like it... and I'm going to be a caster (DE Warlock)
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Signaturen-Creator
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Signaturen-Creator
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I think that is because when a server crashes(or maybe just a zone) then it does like a 30 second rollback.
And yes, if one erson goes LD and dies while still in your group, you will get XP debt. But if you go LD and die while your still in a 6-man group, you only get 1/6th XP debt, so it evens out anyway.
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"There is no reason anyone would want a computer in their home."
-- Ken Olson, chairman of Digital Equipment Corp, 1977
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"There is no reason anyone would want a computer in their home."
-- Ken Olson, chairman of Digital Equipment Corp, 1977
See, what I don't get is all the people who are like "If I'm in a group with some jackass who pulls the whole dungeon I have to share in their debt." However, in the majority of situations where this happens, if someone "overpulls" too many, it usually winds up with a party wipe out anyway so it's full XP debt.
People are not even looking at it from the flip side of the coin. Everyone's so concerned with other people dying in their group, why aren't they looking at what happens when they, themselves, die? In a group of 5, you are taking 1/5th the debt you would have under the "full XP debt" system. Do that many people pride themselves on "never dying"? Everyone dies.
When you group up with people, you are a team. You have just as much responsibility in who's in the team as the next person. If you see someone acting foolish, you're not locked into the team, you can leave. If someone dies in the group for being foolish on their own, then everyone in the group deserves part of that penalty because they are part of the team. At the incurring of the penalty, it's the teams decision if they should kick the fool who caused it.
I like the shared death penalty. Makes grouping more intense.
Destroy Yourself , See Who Gives A FUC|{
I don't think you can change group memberships while in an encounter. Quitting and joining seems to be locked during that time. Honestly never tried kicking someone during an encounter, but I'd assume that it has the same restrictions as voluntarily quitting a group.
I think I'm going to have to wait till I've played for a bit before I make up my mind about the shared debt thing (I wasn't in beta). It's an interesting idea, though. It'd be interesting to see the effects this has on the community when it comes to finding a group. Hopefully people won't be too elitist about things because of it, though I tend to be a fairly skilled and reliable player in MMO's, so it's not like I'd be passed over due to inferior skill, it's more a worry of people judging too harshly before they even know you, etc. (For instance people who insist on getting a certain subclass for optimal effectiveness, such as a Guardian instead of a Bruiser, despite the fact that all members of a given archetype are supposedly able to fill the same role).
I guess I'll see how it goes on release and beyond.
-Gobbo Knight
"Tie two birds together...they have four wings, but cannot fly." -Blind man, Circle of Iron
-Gobbo Knight
"Tie two birds together...they have four wings, but cannot fly." -Blind man, Circle of Iron
I've been playing the beta for a month and didn't see this survey that originally started this thread; however, I have been in plenty of groups where someone, or me, died and we all shared the penalty.
My experience is pretty positive here because we generally bit off more than we could chew and just got our behinds kicked. There was a situation where a moron trained a tough mob on us and we asked him to be more careful in the future and he did fine thereafter.
That being said, the debt expires over real-life time, too. I don't know how long exactly, but I had logged out with experience debt and didn't have it when I logged back in over 24 hours later. (I read this on the beta boards, but honestly, I didn't pay much attention to them since I was too busy playing the game).
Also, when you die and can't recover your spirit shard, it expires in 72 real-life hours, I believe.
My business take on it is: why discourage your players to never log back on? The experience debt is inconvenient but not permanent. It certainly requires players to be more responsible for the team and in my experience make the game more fun to play because you can rely on your team more.
Also, when you're with a group, you're having a lot of fun and the debt gets repaid quickly.
i like the shared death penalty feature myself, i played doctor in AO and pretty much in that game only i ever died in teams usually, mostly due to tanks not holding aggro (and strangely enuff the party seem to gets insane power boost and go 10 more room w/o a doctor)
my one suggestion tho would be to lessen the xp debt when all members in the party die, sometime mishaps happen like repops, etc
i think the spirit shard is totally ridiculous being a 72 hour item, i dont wanna be penalized for exploring (lack of mapping capabilty didnt help either)
The group xp debt has been pretty negligible in all the groups I have been in. What I have noticed about it is that people in groups tend to help the tank and/or priest with aggro more because of it. So imho it is a good thing...us priests and the tanks dont get clobbered so much now. As far as people running off and pulling a John Wayne, that is very rare, only happened once to a group I was in, and he was promptly booted, the xp was regained after two mobs, only set us back what...30 secs.
Let the flames consume me...
MMO Vet since AOL Neverwinter Nights circa 1992. My MMO beat up your MMO. =S
Well i found it to be a good idea when you got team players.
However,it has caused a lot of friction.
It is not uncommon to be asked when you get into a group your resume on mmorpg.At first i found it insulting but soon realised it was because of shared group debt.
Common one would be a SWG player(as his only game) .Common thing to be told is this is not a "solo group" so stick with us and do so and so.
Basically the key issue is to group with people who a)understand their roles b)understand they are in a group c)willing to learn.
If you invite someone and he runs off to do his own thing best bet is to dish him fast or else you get debt.
Its a great concept that works but there are so many factors that make it go wrong that i kind of see the postion the nah sayers have on this.
I guess best bet is to join a guild at start of the game with guild leaders oriented towards team effort then group with guildies.Guildies who have no previous mmorpg exp or group exp tend to be more willing to learn from a fellow guildie then a total outsider.