The 'gear is everything' epeen wavers get a lot of publicity but that is becuase they are the most vocal and visible of WoW's sub-groups. The top raiders only care about gear as far as it lets them beat more and more difficult content. The casual raiders care more about actually beating the regular content. It is the wannabe-hardore raiders who complain about 'welfare epics' and how new expansions destroy their 'gear progress'.
The 'Gear Myth' is that you need top end gear to raid in WoW. In fact if you are skilled enough you can do the harder content in pretty lackluster gear. The flip side of this is that if you are skilled in raiding then you are going to get the gear anyway.
Items are definetly a big part of WoW but they no longer define what you can or cannot do in the game.
The Gearscore Issue has become big news lately but most raids still get put together without considering gearscore or achievements.
I 100% disagree with you when it comes to gear defining what you can or cannot do in WoW. Obviously you only need tier 9 for the new raids. Would it make sense to need t10 to run it? try to do anythig with sub par gear and see how many raiding options you have.
The people on this forum that support WoW are an insignificant minority. the ones that speak of different ways to play other than getting items.
Lets go talk to the 99% of WoWs playerbase and ask them if WoWs main goal is to farm items.
You and I know full well what the focus of the game is.
We both know what they would say.
Fabricated statistics like these, are why it is exceedingly difficult for reasonable people to participate on these forums.
If you honestly believe your statement, then i honestly believe your out of touch with the heart of the Warcraft Community.
The game is the encounters. Gear is just a means of making encounters achievable, or easier. If you can't complete an encounter, you can upgrade your gear to give yourself an edge. Outgear the encounter. Roleplaying games have always been like this in my experience. If you failed, you usually went out and leveled, or upgraded your gear and tried again.
The tools aren't the trade.
I wish this were true. The statistics may be fabricated, but the intent and experience is not. I would argue that the vast majority of current WoW players only raid and arena for carrot on a stick items. For the most part, they don't care who they have to hurt or step on to get them either. That's just the current mentality of the game to a very large extent.
How about taking the "discussions" to more objective terms.
Assume a priest, look at say the wand, which is about the hardest to gear up. Assume you have a ilvl 213 wand (don't worry metal you won't know what I am talking so don't bother jump in). Assume you have the luck to jump straight to ilvl232. What good does that do to me? 7 more spell power, 5 or so more intelligence, ... and so on.
Against what? When fully buffed I have almost 3k spellpower, 1k+ intelligence ... do I really need to chase that gear. Does it make that much a difference? A full suite of ilvl226 vs ilvl232 does not increase statistics by more than a few percent. It matters but it does not immediately change the gameplay. Upgrading gear serve other gameplay purposes, minimaxing or switching talent, but that is another story, a story of planning and character development, not just blindly chasing all gear.
Now do we take gear, yes, if it drops, we talk and share it out. What if no new gear drops for me, it does not matter, I have my hour of gaming with a friend, a guild, a few PUGGies I happened to share an hour with.
Most important of all, if I log out, its over, the wand does not go to bed with me. Stop preaching the myth that gear is all that important. It is part of the game, like losing a bear is part of the chessplay during lunch. But it only comes along with the game. It is not the game.
Actually during the vanilla WoW days, a tier gear is really head and shoulder "above" others, not really in terms of statistics, though some of the tier bonus are sick. It is a "superior" gear simply b/c it is so damn hard to get. Nowadays just play whatever you want and gear will come one way or another, from big raids to small raids to heroic dungeons to crafting, or pvp, gear comes very easily. If you are lazy just play anything and as emblem drops almost everywhere, you can buy the epic gear with emblems.
People who play high-rated arena do it for the sake of competition instead of gear, since the highest useful arena piece is the T2 weapon, which needs only 2200 rating.
People who do hardmodes also do them for the sake of difficulty, because the difference between 25man gear and 25man hard gear is insignificant and would not hinder progression to next raid in any way.
Nahh its mostly about gear. as an arena player gear is first then once you have all of your stuff you could go for achievements/titles.
I wonder how many people would arena on normal WoW servers if you couldn't get gear from it.
My guess would be none.
Considering that arena gear is only really good for arenas, I would say mostly the same amount of people. Arena gear is not that great for non-PvP activities so unless you are heavily into PvP, most players will not bother with it. If you are serious about arenas, you are not doing it to get PvE gear.
I never said arena players farmed for pve gear.
If they like arena they queue for them for pvp gear. That's the motivation.
I will say this, the achievement system gives the really good pvpers something to work toward after they get gear but most don't really care dude.
Imagine if achievements were the only reward of running arena and all the pvp gear would be tossed in BGs again.
What would happen? My guess would be that most would just farm BGs.
So what happen? You guess and its immediately a fact?
Most don't care about achievement? How many do you count in the "most"?
How about gamers play what they want and achievement, gear and gold comes along naturally? Oh yeah you cannot see it cos your are blinded by your rage and jealousy.
That you cannot see through or understand what gear is, does not make everyone else just as foolish. By the way, answer me, what is gear like in WoW. How do you pick gear? Looking at what? is it a linear selection path? Since you keep talking about gear, you should know a little bit about gear. No you don't.
Been playing World of Warcraft for a couple years since they merged the Classic Servers on DAoC.
Over the last 3-4 months, I have not done a raid or instance encounter that had any kind of upgrade for my Druid in WoW. ToC 10/25 Heroic doesn't interest me since my guild is currently only up to Freya on the Ulduar Hardmodes. We are all older, less adept gamers, who miss the younger years when we could pickup any encounter in one try. We hoot and holler each time we defeat a new hardmode, even though we are using gear from regular ToC 10/25 which is arguably easier to obtain then Ulduar Hardmodes. Why are we spending thousands of gold on repair bills, and hundreds of hours on content that yields no gear rewards? For the accomplishment. For the enjoyment of the encounter. For the stimulation and how your personal stresses are forgotten for a time while your full attention is drawn to the encounter.
We aren't the only guild like this. Though I am probably the only one from my guild who ever reads game forums, outside of Warcraft related websites.
If Warcraft is successful, its not because of the gear grind. Its because of the gameplay. Its a fun game to play.
----------------------------------------------------------- Well said I think. I do not play WoW anymore, but when I did it was a generally fun game. I did a bit of it all, PvP, Raiding. Crafting, ect. and quit when I felt i had achieved all I wanted out of that game. Never did I feel like I had to gear grind, the game is what you make of it and the people you play with. Just my 2cp
You hear that Metalhead?
"WOW is a fun game to play". Here is how I play at the moment. ....Started naked on a new PvP server.
Just lvl'd to 18.
Had my first blue Mace in the DM.
All crafted mail greens.
Level 125 in Blacksmithing. ; 145 in fishing etc....62 Gold.
Getting fuilthy rich with crafting the silver Rod enchanters need (8 gold a piece) and selling armor/weapons greens at 3G
Did a few BG's and owned the place.
SHUT down Experience now and stop leveling at lvl 19.
Will do DM, SFK a few more times and do the quests I like to do. Always in challenge mode (3 to 4 levels higher - die....).
When done and had enough fun in the dungeons at that level
Put up Experience again and level until 20 through the BG's.
Take the BG's awards all the way in Ashenvale ... and continue my journey through Azeroth a last time before Cata hits.
----> Who needs T10? ..... btw I never had a full set of the latest gear (as 99% of WOW players).
Oh yeah, ... once a week I join my friends and find my main for that casual Raid and do ONE heroic a day with it.
And .... Have fun mining those space mines in that game without gravity, landscape, feet .... I am off with my crafted Helicopter.
))
Ahhh Zorn, For every player like you or the person you quoted are a hundred players that do nothing but wait for their lock out timers to expire so they could continue farming gear.
Like I said the wow players on this site are the minority and don't reflect how the player base really feels about WoW.
Whats the main goal of these players? character progression through itemization.
You know I'm right.
I will give you credit for doing something out of the ordinary but its not something the majority of your player base cares for.
OH and I never said Item farming wasn't fun for certain people.
Where do you get information about the majority. Proofs or I call you a liar. You have every statistics out of thin air and yet you concede the very moment someones tells a different story, only to recycle your baseless statistics again. Now here you do not say 80% you say a hundred.
Originally posted by metalhead980 Like I said the wow players on this site are the minority and don't reflect how the player base really feels about WoW. Whats the main goal of these players? character progression through itemization.
You keep saying that as if it is going to make it true.
From my experience the WoW players posting here are a much better representation of the general WoW playerbase than those who post on the official WoW forums. There is a massive disconnect between the public image of WoW and how the 'normal' players play the game.
The forum community of WoW is very small compared to the games overall numbers.
And no Mmorpg.com with its 100+ wow fans don't represent the wow community more than the hundreds of thousands on its official forum. hardly anyone knows what this site even is in WoW.
I understand how this could bother you though, discussing a topic in a game that the community doesnt even consider viable in anyway.
It's the same with Eve noone gives a shit about this site and most people don't care what the official forum goers say. THe opinion of the vocal minority mean nothing in individual games and even less in the grand sceme of things in the entire genre.
Seriously this site is pro sandbox LOL! it means nothing and is in no way a representation of anything.
100+ wow fans you called them does not represent anything, but you one person throwing out nonsense statistics are telling true stories about the majority or 80% or whatever bullshit you said.
So much for your own integrity and sense of reasoning.
I never played eve nor ddo, Im playing lotro and I never felt the need to block anyone yet. I found that what I always wanted in wow was not gear, but to look heroic. in lotro, i can customize my appearance and look semi-heroic from the start. Playing this way, I find gear upgrades meaningless.
Besides, I dare you to stay angry at a hobbit. I double dare you =P
That is something i really enjoyed about Everquest 2. You had your gear slots, and your appearance slots. It really made people look unique.
If Warcraft added a feature like this it would unhinge the pvp community. A shame really, cause it gives people another option to express themselves creatively.
That is why EQ2 is a resouces hog while WoW runs much smoother on PCs years older.
There has to be a trade off for everything. Not that EQ2 is bad. Its a trade off.
Actually, the PvP armor is usually pretty good for tanks. Also some healers benefit from the extra stamina and such too. But yes, PvP armor is for the most part useless in PvE.
There is one exception that I can recall. Up till yesterday, before 3.3, couple of the best holy paly range slots comes from purchases from arena vendors.
You know what....your mileage....may totally vary. Maybe I just played more obsessively? Maybe my personality just has some flaws that cause me to dive into this with great abandon and OVER do them. * cough cough * I have a tendency to do things obsessively with my whole being for a few years at a time....games, playing guitar...even as a child....ballet, acting classes, basketball...you name it. So just because that was MY experience, certainly doesn't mean it will be yours.
And yup...I totally agree that WoW is addictive, for many many reasons. And I'll readily admit that I have an addictive personality, so...anyway....like I said, you're mileage may vary, and I didn't mean to be a downer. Was really just kind of laughing at my immediate impulse upon seeing ALLLLLLLLL those tiers of armor I've gone through. Whoever posted that long list (leaving out the BG gear, even)....yeah....that got to me.
That's the problem with general AND temporarely Wow "hate". It has nothing to do with the game. Because simply compared to other mmorpg's you find little wrong with the game itself.
People STRUGGLE with their own personalities when talking about WoW and then project it onto the game.
First of all, Mr. "WoW-lover of the Century"....I have never, EVER EVER said I hated WoW. As a matter of fact, quite the opposite. However...I don't think that it shows anything other than perhaps a bit of maturity, to recognize when you have played a game to utter burnout, that perhaps it's time to move along.
I have never suggested that WoW was a "bad game," or that others should do as I do....unlike YOU, who, for some reason, think that everyone and their puppy should be playing WoW. NOT playing WoW does not make someone less than YOU, my forum fundamentalist.
They find a clip to prove they are right of course (in this case "gear") and then go in a sad way of self indulgency to proclaim the "why" of things. Of course Wow is a sandbox game in its end game. No more levels and one of the main reasons to progress further - without levels - is to "better" your charcacter. So with dozens of variables you do just that.
Big deal.
WoW...is a sandbox game? Uhm....not even CLOSE. UO was a sandbox game. You are probably too young to have played it, so you don't have anything to compare it to. That's fine, I understand that. Doesn't make WoW bad, or UO good....it's just a fact.
I don't know how long you've been playing WoW, but after five FULL years....I don't find it odd that I would be TIRED of the gear grind, being that I was a raider.
You can think whatever you like, it won't make my own personal experience bend to meet yours. We're different PEOPLE. Now you may not get mind-numbingly bored of the gear grind. That's fine! I never suggested YOU should stop playing. For ME...it was only a matter of time. Anything I have to do repeatedly for years....will eventually bore me. I'm strange like that, I guess.
Big deal.
I don't care about your individual psycho modes. I like the game and the world to play in.It's notthat you have a drinking problem and empty a bottle of whisky that most people don't enjoy agood glass of whine and a nice cigar once a day.
I admitted to obsessively enjoying varied hobbies for short "bursts" throughout my life. And somehow to YOU, this makes me "psycho?" Personally, I find people much more "psycho" in their personality makeup, when they cannot ADMIT to having any "less than stellar" traits.
Now show me WHERE I said it wasn't okay for YOU to "like the world to play in?" GOOD FOR YOU!!! I'm SO glad that you have a game that you love to play!! That doesn't mean no one ELSE will ever tire of it!
To me, it sounds more like you have a "psycho" issue than I do. Your narcissism dictates that everyone should and must feel the same way YOU do. That is...at the very least...neurotic and delusional. The whole world does not revolve around you and YOUR likes.
The bleu above shows WoW is more than a videogame. Like it or not.
HOW, exactly....is WoW more than a video game? Because last I checked, it was discs sitting in a box on a shelf in my desk. It is a video game. How you can conclude that WoW is more than a video game...now that's really kind of....disturbing, to be honest.
And btw "girlgeek", I knew you were in trouble when you started to game in the copycats long enough. Indeed those present day "competitors" are the best way to leave the quality and many options in MMO play ...because we are spoiled in WOW. No one is going to play them longer than a few weeks before getting bored.
First of all, I've played a LOT of games longer than a few weeks without getting bored. I generally have subscriptions to 2 to 3 MMOs at one time. (My family members play different games, and we like to play together.) Even WHILE I played WoW, the majority of the time I had a sub to EQ2, for example. Secondly, your FEAR of playing a "competitors" game is irrational. Although I agree with the "spoiled in WoW" comment.
Because it seems as I have run into other people that have left WoW. in other games I have played (and am NOW playing).....they are the ones that incessantly WHINE because things aren't handed to them on a silver platter.
Not EVERYONE wants a game to be that way. Some people want to enjoy the sense of accomplishment you get when you actually have to DO something... to GET something...
When your personal psycho mode will swing back to its normal position again .... you'll see that it's a question of simply "modes" and "revenge" upon a thing you liked. But hardly it has anything to do with the game itself. Let alone with such fantastic game makers like Mike Morhaime and Kaplan.
I'm taking REVENGE out on an inanimate object? ROFLMAO!!!! Dude, I know I'm a bit wordy....but I don't think you really READ any of my posts!! Of all the people on this forum, I am one of the FEW that ISN'T playing WoW and has no problem admitting that I ENJOYED it for a very very long time. I have NEVER said "WoW is a shit game"....EVER. I thoroughly enjoyed WoW for FIVE YEARS.
You are such a HUGE fanboi that you just ASSUME if someone isn't playing your fooking precious, beloved WoW, that they therefore must be a "hater" or "psycho" somehow. Seriously....it's really sad. It also makes me remember that the COMMUNITY in WoW was so ungodly annoying, that it probably played a big part in my own personal burnout.
"An unexamined life...is not worth living." Something to consider. You can look up who said that. Maybe it will give you enough time away from WoW that you can actually examine what your motives are in trying to convince the world that WoW is "more than a video game."
Perhaps one day you will mature enough to realize that just because YOU think something, or believe it with the entire core of your being....does not mean that everyone else will, or even should.
Get over your "rightness" and evangelical obsession with the game. Love it. PLAY it. And let other people love and play the games that they like. You may never burn out on WoW. You may play it for 15 years, for all I know. But that...is YOU...and has no bearing on what others do, think, or feel about the game, or anything else.
And as a sidenote....I have always said on these forums that I will more than likely return to WoW for Cataclysm, and very MUCH look forward to that. But then...I return to EVE for expansions TOO...and to LotRO, sometimes.
For you to take ME on...on the forums here...as some sort of "opposition" to you, is just SILLY in the eyes of most people who KNOW that I've been a big supporter and defender of WoW and the gamers who CHOOSE WoW as their main (or only) game. You're just so obsessed with the game....you can't even tell the difference between who has enjoyed the game here, and the REAL haters that you despise so much! LOL
Don't you ever get tired of farming for armor sets? D1,D1.5,T1,T2,T2.5,T3,D2,T4,T5,T6,T7.T7.5,T8,T8.5,T9,T9.5,T10,T10.5 This doesn't even include pvp armor. Seriously i'm starting to feel bad for you guys. Well atleast you have a light at the end of the tunnel aye? Next expansion you get that path of the titans progression that hopefully stops the gear farming for a little while. Seriously you have to feel a bit worn out with all the gear resets and lack of progression WoW puts into the game every two months.
I think its worst than a drug addiction...
Where themepark games try to hide that they are copying WOW, games like Mortal Online and Darkfall make no attempt to hide their inspiration ______\m/_____ LordOfDarkDesire
So you reach end game and the end of the leveling process. To advance further in the game ----- > you advance your character's abilities and performance. With hundreds of different stats and performance enhancements. temporarely (with food/controlling zones/spells...) and for good (with crafting and questing and looting) in the way you like to play (PvP/PvE/Solo/group). So people who complain about this ??? Why do you even play ANY game. ))
I think exactly peoples that have played enough games complain about WoW because it is not so diverse as it looks. In almost any aspect in game there only one or in rare cases only two correct solutions. So in general you have no choice how to do things. Even there are relatively rich set of things that you can do any of them is limited and probably point to one only purpose: Item Grind.
Where themepark games try to hide that they are copying WOW, games like Mortal Online and Darkfall make no attempt to hide their inspiration ______\m/_____ LordOfDarkDesire
Most epic thread hi-jack in history. From what I skimmed through, Metalhead you cannot appoint yourself as a spokes person for all wow players what you say is what you think but for me as a player and as others have posted... your wrong. Its like me saying that the majority of EvE players just play to mine rocks all day and get ISK that's all they want to do, and that's all EvE is, a big ISK grind, grind ISK get a ship, grind more get a bigger ship etc. I am sure you would disagree but I am right cus I say I am.
How am I wrong when I say WoW is a gear focused game? Honestly with the exception of achievements ( a good feature actually) Everything you do leads to gear.
I didn't want to hi-jack your thread dude but it seems on this forum if you don't kiss the ass of the game in its own forum you get flamed. Also I was attacked by my own personal stalker.
So I had a little back and forth but I don't think im wrong in saying its gear focused and I don't think I'm wrong in saying that people just don't keep armor sets as long as they used to (due to upgrades released quickly).
I don't see how any of my original points in the discussion was wrong.
As for your comment on Eve you know jack shit. You played the trial and thats it (by your own admission) at least I keep tabs on WoW and played for three years in in a much higher caliber than you (MT, Full clear Naxx and BT and have legendaries).
I was refering to your comments such as
Ahhh Zorn, For every player like you or the person you quoted are a hundred players that do nothing but wait for their lock out timers to expire so they could continue farming gear.
Like I said the wow players on this site are the minority and don't reflect how the player base really feels about WoW.
Whats the main goal of these players? character progression through itemization.
You know I'm right.
making you sound like the know-it-all of WoW, and becuase you think it then its true.
My comments on EvE where rubbish (although ISK is the gear grind of EvE, cannot do anything without ISK, am I right?), I dont know enough about EvE to comment just as your out of touch with WoW to comment.
Out of the two us do you really think you have a better handle on the current WoW community and their activites than I do? After all would you ask a pilot or a traffic warden how to fly a plane?
Yes there are players who play just for the gear but they don't last long and they most certinaly are not the majority of players, those are the players that burn out and turn on WoW, if the majority of players where there just for the gear WoW would still not command millions of western subs.
You act as I have no first hand experience in Wotlk.
Why would I be here If i knew nothing of WoW?
Really If I only played a 10 day trial of WoW my opinions would mean nothing similar to your Eve opinions.
Have you not seen my post history? or do you just toss every person that doesn't like WoW on Ignore?
My ten year old son plays, My wife plays, my brother plays all in my home.
Think I dont read up on Curse whats going down with WoW? that I dont download trailers for my wife to see? think I dont help my son research specs? Think I don't help my brother heal with his shaman or tank with his druid when hes late for his raids?
I consider myself a well informed mmo gamer, I would never, EVER give a game a hard time if I wasn't aware of its mechanics and didnt play through them first hand.
I have my issues with WoW for one reason, I was a massive fan of both blizzard products and WoW it self but due to design decisions I left right before the sunwell patch.
Doesnt mean WoW stopped for me dude. it's all around me due to family members.
I find this thread funny. All I said was that WoW is about progression though itemization and I get retarded posts from the one newb saying he xp stopped at 19 to enchant? LOL!
I'm talking about the mass majority of players here. In a item focused game it would be obvious why people play. what motivation they have to continue.
Yet on this forum to say you enjoy item collecting is bad. I wonder did people say the same for diablo back in the day so they didnt seem shallow?
Jeebus people ... any game/sport can be reduced down to singular goals; whether they be items, ships, new parts, currency, etc. If gear was THE reason to play WoW I would've stopped ages go. Having new items, at least to me, also mean new content to explore and enjoy; if that's not your slice of pie, so beit ... move on.
Btw ... the comment about alts ... funny and ironic.
Edit: Sorry for the derail Coffee ... thanks for posting the update!
Ico Oh, cruel fate, to be thusly boned. Ask not for whom the bone bones. It bones for thee.
This patch is all the proof I need. Cross servers are the best thing thats happened to WoW since Heroics. Know why? Because you can insta group for dungeons. And why is this? Because the faster you get a group the more dungeons you can run and the more dungeons you run the more tokens you get. And why do you need tokens?????? ITEMS
That is very partial view.
Blizz introduced a tool that allows people who want to run dungeons to get it done more comfortably.
That implies everyone only play dungeon? That imply everyone only play for gear.
If the gov't erects cleaner public toilets in downtown, it proves everyone goes to downtown to pee.
I find this thread funny. All I said was that WoW is about progression though itemization and I get retarded posts from the one newb saying he xp stopped at 19 to enchant? LOL!
Comments
You call them 'trends', I call them stereotypes.
The 'gear is everything' epeen wavers get a lot of publicity but that is becuase they are the most vocal and visible of WoW's sub-groups. The top raiders only care about gear as far as it lets them beat more and more difficult content. The casual raiders care more about actually beating the regular content. It is the wannabe-hardore raiders who complain about 'welfare epics' and how new expansions destroy their 'gear progress'.
The 'Gear Myth' is that you need top end gear to raid in WoW. In fact if you are skilled enough you can do the harder content in pretty lackluster gear. The flip side of this is that if you are skilled in raiding then you are going to get the gear anyway.
Items are definetly a big part of WoW but they no longer define what you can or cannot do in the game.
The Gearscore Issue has become big news lately but most raids still get put together without considering gearscore or achievements.
I 100% disagree with you when it comes to gear defining what you can or cannot do in WoW. Obviously you only need tier 9 for the new raids. Would it make sense to need t10 to run it? try to do anythig with sub par gear and see how many raiding options you have.
The people on this forum that support WoW are an insignificant minority. the ones that speak of different ways to play other than getting items.
Lets go talk to the 99% of WoWs playerbase and ask them if WoWs main goal is to farm items.
You and I know full well what the focus of the game is.
We both know what they would say.
Fabricated statistics like these, are why it is exceedingly difficult for reasonable people to participate on these forums.
If you honestly believe your statement, then i honestly believe your out of touch with the heart of the Warcraft Community.
The game is the encounters. Gear is just a means of making encounters achievable, or easier. If you can't complete an encounter, you can upgrade your gear to give yourself an edge. Outgear the encounter. Roleplaying games have always been like this in my experience. If you failed, you usually went out and leveled, or upgraded your gear and tried again.
The tools aren't the trade.
I wish this were true. The statistics may be fabricated, but the intent and experience is not. I would argue that the vast majority of current WoW players only raid and arena for carrot on a stick items. For the most part, they don't care who they have to hurt or step on to get them either. That's just the current mentality of the game to a very large extent.
How about taking the "discussions" to more objective terms.
Assume a priest, look at say the wand, which is about the hardest to gear up. Assume you have a ilvl 213 wand (don't worry metal you won't know what I am talking so don't bother jump in). Assume you have the luck to jump straight to ilvl232. What good does that do to me? 7 more spell power, 5 or so more intelligence, ... and so on.
Against what? When fully buffed I have almost 3k spellpower, 1k+ intelligence ... do I really need to chase that gear. Does it make that much a difference? A full suite of ilvl226 vs ilvl232 does not increase statistics by more than a few percent. It matters but it does not immediately change the gameplay. Upgrading gear serve other gameplay purposes, minimaxing or switching talent, but that is another story, a story of planning and character development, not just blindly chasing all gear.
Now do we take gear, yes, if it drops, we talk and share it out. What if no new gear drops for me, it does not matter, I have my hour of gaming with a friend, a guild, a few PUGGies I happened to share an hour with.
Most important of all, if I log out, its over, the wand does not go to bed with me. Stop preaching the myth that gear is all that important. It is part of the game, like losing a bear is part of the chessplay during lunch. But it only comes along with the game. It is not the game.
Actually during the vanilla WoW days, a tier gear is really head and shoulder "above" others, not really in terms of statistics, though some of the tier bonus are sick. It is a "superior" gear simply b/c it is so damn hard to get. Nowadays just play whatever you want and gear will come one way or another, from big raids to small raids to heroic dungeons to crafting, or pvp, gear comes very easily. If you are lazy just play anything and as emblem drops almost everywhere, you can buy the epic gear with emblems.
Nahh its mostly about gear. as an arena player gear is first then once you have all of your stuff you could go for achievements/titles.
I wonder how many people would arena on normal WoW servers if you couldn't get gear from it.
My guess would be none.
Considering that arena gear is only really good for arenas, I would say mostly the same amount of people. Arena gear is not that great for non-PvP activities so unless you are heavily into PvP, most players will not bother with it. If you are serious about arenas, you are not doing it to get PvE gear.
I never said arena players farmed for pve gear.
If they like arena they queue for them for pvp gear. That's the motivation.
I will say this, the achievement system gives the really good pvpers something to work toward after they get gear but most don't really care dude.
Imagine if achievements were the only reward of running arena and all the pvp gear would be tossed in BGs again.
What would happen? My guess would be that most would just farm BGs.
So what happen? You guess and its immediately a fact?
Most don't care about achievement? How many do you count in the "most"?
How about gamers play what they want and achievement, gear and gold comes along naturally? Oh yeah you cannot see it cos your are blinded by your rage and jealousy.
That you cannot see through or understand what gear is, does not make everyone else just as foolish. By the way, answer me, what is gear like in WoW. How do you pick gear? Looking at what? is it a linear selection path? Since you keep talking about gear, you should know a little bit about gear. No you don't.
You hear that Metalhead?
"WOW is a fun game to play". Here is how I play at the moment. ....Started naked on a new PvP server.
Just lvl'd to 18.
; 145 in fishing etc....62 Gold.
Had my first blue Mace in the DM.
All crafted mail greens.
Level 125 in Blacksmithing.
Getting fuilthy rich with crafting the silver Rod enchanters need (8 gold a piece) and selling armor/weapons greens at 3G
Did a few BG's and owned the place.
SHUT down Experience now and stop leveling at lvl 19.
Will do DM, SFK a few more times and do the quests I like to do. Always in challenge mode (3 to 4 levels higher - die....).
When done and had enough fun in the dungeons at that level
Put up Experience again and level until 20 through the BG's.
Take the BG's awards all the way in Ashenvale ... and continue my journey through Azeroth a last time before Cata hits.
----> Who needs T10? ..... btw I never had a full set of the latest gear (as 99% of WOW players).
Oh yeah, ... once a week I join my friends and find my main for that casual Raid and do ONE heroic a day with it.
And .... Have fun mining those space mines in that game without gravity, landscape, feet .... I am off with my crafted Helicopter.
Ahhh Zorn, For every player like you or the person you quoted are a hundred players that do nothing but wait for their lock out timers to expire so they could continue farming gear.
Like I said the wow players on this site are the minority and don't reflect how the player base really feels about WoW.
Whats the main goal of these players? character progression through itemization.
You know I'm right.
I will give you credit for doing something out of the ordinary but its not something the majority of your player base cares for.
OH and I never said Item farming wasn't fun for certain people.
Where do you get information about the majority. Proofs or I call you a liar. You have every statistics out of thin air and yet you concede the very moment someones tells a different story, only to recycle your baseless statistics again. Now here you do not say 80% you say a hundred.
Prove it or drop it.
You keep saying that as if it is going to make it true.
From my experience the WoW players posting here are a much better representation of the general WoW playerbase than those who post on the official WoW forums. There is a massive disconnect between the public image of WoW and how the 'normal' players play the game.
The forum community of WoW is very small compared to the games overall numbers.
And no Mmorpg.com with its 100+ wow fans don't represent the wow community more than the hundreds of thousands on its official forum. hardly anyone knows what this site even is in WoW.
I understand how this could bother you though, discussing a topic in a game that the community doesnt even consider viable in anyway.
It's the same with Eve noone gives a shit about this site and most people don't care what the official forum goers say. THe opinion of the vocal minority mean nothing in individual games and even less in the grand sceme of things in the entire genre.
Seriously this site is pro sandbox LOL! it means nothing and is in no way a representation of anything.
100+ wow fans you called them does not represent anything, but you one person throwing out nonsense statistics are telling true stories about the majority or 80% or whatever bullshit you said.
So much for your own integrity and sense of reasoning.
All bow to metal, the one with a metal head.
I never played eve nor ddo, Im playing lotro and I never felt the need to block anyone yet. I found that what I always wanted in wow was not gear, but to look heroic. in lotro, i can customize my appearance and look semi-heroic from the start. Playing this way, I find gear upgrades meaningless.
Besides, I dare you to stay angry at a hobbit. I double dare you =P
That is something i really enjoyed about Everquest 2. You had your gear slots, and your appearance slots. It really made people look unique.
If Warcraft added a feature like this it would unhinge the pvp community. A shame really, cause it gives people another option to express themselves creatively.
That is why EQ2 is a resouces hog while WoW runs much smoother on PCs years older.
There has to be a trade off for everything. Not that EQ2 is bad. Its a trade off.
There is one exception that I can recall. Up till yesterday, before 3.3, couple of the best holy paly range slots comes from purchases from arena vendors.
That's the problem with general AND temporarely Wow "hate". It has nothing to do with the game. Because simply compared to other mmorpg's you find little wrong with the game itself.
People STRUGGLE with their own personalities when talking about WoW and then project it onto the game.
First of all, Mr. "WoW-lover of the Century"....I have never, EVER EVER said I hated WoW. As a matter of fact, quite the opposite. However...I don't think that it shows anything other than perhaps a bit of maturity, to recognize when you have played a game to utter burnout, that perhaps it's time to move along.
I have never suggested that WoW was a "bad game," or that others should do as I do....unlike YOU, who, for some reason, think that everyone and their puppy should be playing WoW. NOT playing WoW does not make someone less than YOU, my forum fundamentalist.
They find a clip to prove they are right of course (in this case "gear") and then go in a sad way of self indulgency to proclaim the "why" of things. Of course Wow is a sandbox game in its end game. No more levels and one of the main reasons to progress further - without levels - is to "better" your charcacter. So with dozens of variables you do just that.
Big deal.
WoW...is a sandbox game? Uhm....not even CLOSE. UO was a sandbox game. You are probably too young to have played it, so you don't have anything to compare it to. That's fine, I understand that. Doesn't make WoW bad, or UO good....it's just a fact.
I don't know how long you've been playing WoW, but after five FULL years....I don't find it odd that I would be TIRED of the gear grind, being that I was a raider.
You can think whatever you like, it won't make my own personal experience bend to meet yours. We're different PEOPLE. Now you may not get mind-numbingly bored of the gear grind. That's fine! I never suggested YOU should stop playing. For ME...it was only a matter of time. Anything I have to do repeatedly for years....will eventually bore me. I'm strange like that, I guess.
Big deal.
I don't care about your individual psycho modes. I like the game and the world to play in. It's notthat you have a drinking problem and empty a bottle of whisky that most people don't enjoy agood glass of whine and a nice cigar once a day.
I admitted to obsessively enjoying varied hobbies for short "bursts" throughout my life. And somehow to YOU, this makes me "psycho?" Personally, I find people much more "psycho" in their personality makeup, when they cannot ADMIT to having any "less than stellar" traits.
Now show me WHERE I said it wasn't okay for YOU to "like the world to play in?" GOOD FOR YOU!!! I'm SO glad that you have a game that you love to play!! That doesn't mean no one ELSE will ever tire of it!
To me, it sounds more like you have a "psycho" issue than I do. Your narcissism dictates that everyone should and must feel the same way YOU do. That is...at the very least...neurotic and delusional. The whole world does not revolve around you and YOUR likes.
The bleu above shows WoW is more than a videogame. Like it or not.
HOW, exactly....is WoW more than a video game? Because last I checked, it was discs sitting in a box on a shelf in my desk. It is a video game. How you can conclude that WoW is more than a video game...now that's really kind of....disturbing, to be honest.
And btw "girlgeek", I knew you were in trouble when you started to game in the copycats long enough. Indeed those present day "competitors" are the best way to leave the quality and many options in MMO play ...because we are spoiled in WOW. No one is going to play them longer than a few weeks before getting bored.
First of all, I've played a LOT of games longer than a few weeks without getting bored. I generally have subscriptions to 2 to 3 MMOs at one time. (My family members play different games, and we like to play together.) Even WHILE I played WoW, the majority of the time I had a sub to EQ2, for example. Secondly, your FEAR of playing a "competitors" game is irrational. Although I agree with the "spoiled in WoW" comment.
Because it seems as I have run into other people that have left WoW. in other games I have played (and am NOW playing).....they are the ones that incessantly WHINE because things aren't handed to them on a silver platter.
Not EVERYONE wants a game to be that way. Some people want to enjoy the sense of accomplishment you get when you actually have to DO something... to GET something...
When your personal psycho mode will swing back to its normal position again .... you'll see that it's a question of simply "modes" and "revenge" upon a thing you liked. But hardly it has anything to do with the game itself. Let alone with such fantastic game makers like Mike Morhaime and Kaplan.
I'm taking REVENGE out on an inanimate object? ROFLMAO!!!! Dude, I know I'm a bit wordy....but I don't think you really READ any of my posts!! Of all the people on this forum, I am one of the FEW that ISN'T playing WoW and has no problem admitting that I ENJOYED it for a very very long time. I have NEVER said "WoW is a shit game"....EVER. I thoroughly enjoyed WoW for FIVE YEARS.
You are such a HUGE fanboi that you just ASSUME if someone isn't playing your fooking precious, beloved WoW, that they therefore must be a "hater" or "psycho" somehow. Seriously....it's really sad. It also makes me remember that the COMMUNITY in WoW was so ungodly annoying, that it probably played a big part in my own personal burnout.
"An unexamined life...is not worth living." Something to consider. You can look up who said that. Maybe it will give you enough time away from WoW that you can actually examine what your motives are in trying to convince the world that WoW is "more than a video game."
btw; THIS is why indeed WOW is WOW. ----> http://www.wow-europe.com/wowanniversary/video/?v=Jeff_Kaplan_Q1#video
and of course : http://www.wow-europe.com/wowanniversary/video/?v=Jeff_Kaplan_Q2#video
http://www.wow-europe.com/wowanniversary/video/?v=Mike_Morhaime_Q1#video
Perhaps one day you will mature enough to realize that just because YOU think something, or believe it with the entire core of your being....does not mean that everyone else will, or even should.
Get over your "rightness" and evangelical obsession with the game. Love it. PLAY it. And let other people love and play the games that they like. You may never burn out on WoW. You may play it for 15 years, for all I know. But that...is YOU...and has no bearing on what others do, think, or feel about the game, or anything else.
And as a sidenote....I have always said on these forums that I will more than likely return to WoW for Cataclysm, and very MUCH look forward to that. But then...I return to EVE for expansions TOO...and to LotRO, sometimes.
For you to take ME on...on the forums here...as some sort of "opposition" to you, is just SILLY in the eyes of most people who KNOW that I've been a big supporter and defender of WoW and the gamers who CHOOSE WoW as their main (or only) game. You're just so obsessed with the game....you can't even tell the difference between who has enjoyed the game here, and the REAL haters that you despise so much! LOL
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
I think its worst than a drug addiction...
Where themepark games try to hide that they are copying WOW, games like Mortal Online and Darkfall make no attempt to hide their inspiration
______\m/_____
LordOfDarkDesire
I think exactly peoples that have played enough games complain about WoW because it is not so diverse as it looks. In almost any aspect in game there only one or in rare cases only two correct solutions. So in general you have no choice how to do things. Even there are relatively rich set of things that you can do any of them is limited and probably point to one only purpose: Item Grind.
Where themepark games try to hide that they are copying WOW, games like Mortal Online and Darkfall make no attempt to hide their inspiration
______\m/_____
LordOfDarkDesire
This patch is all the proof I need.
Cross servers are the best thing thats happened to WoW since Heroics.
Know why?
Because you can insta group for dungeons.
And why is this?
Because the faster you get a group the more dungeons you can run and the more dungeons you run the more tokens you get.
And why do you need tokens??????
ITEMS
PLaying: EvE, Ryzom
Waiting For: Earthrise, Perpetuum
How am I wrong when I say WoW is a gear focused game? Honestly with the exception of achievements ( a good feature actually) Everything you do leads to gear.
I didn't want to hi-jack your thread dude but it seems on this forum if you don't kiss the ass of the game in its own forum you get flamed. Also I was attacked by my own personal stalker.
So I had a little back and forth but I don't think im wrong in saying its gear focused and I don't think I'm wrong in saying that people just don't keep armor sets as long as they used to (due to upgrades released quickly).
I don't see how any of my original points in the discussion was wrong.
As for your comment on Eve you know jack shit. You played the trial and thats it (by your own admission) at least I keep tabs on WoW and played for three years in in a much higher caliber than you (MT, Full clear Naxx and BT and have legendaries).
I was refering to your comments such as
Ahhh Zorn, For every player like you or the person you quoted are a hundred players that do nothing but wait for their lock out timers to expire so they could continue farming gear.
Like I said the wow players on this site are the minority and don't reflect how the player base really feels about WoW.
Whats the main goal of these players? character progression through itemization.
You know I'm right.
making you sound like the know-it-all of WoW, and becuase you think it then its true.
My comments on EvE where rubbish (although ISK is the gear grind of EvE, cannot do anything without ISK, am I right?), I dont know enough about EvE to comment just as your out of touch with WoW to comment.
Out of the two us do you really think you have a better handle on the current WoW community and their activites than I do? After all would you ask a pilot or a traffic warden how to fly a plane?
Yes there are players who play just for the gear but they don't last long and they most certinaly are not the majority of players, those are the players that burn out and turn on WoW, if the majority of players where there just for the gear WoW would still not command millions of western subs.
You act as I have no first hand experience in Wotlk.
Why would I be here If i knew nothing of WoW?
Really If I only played a 10 day trial of WoW my opinions would mean nothing similar to your Eve opinions.
Have you not seen my post history? or do you just toss every person that doesn't like WoW on Ignore?
My ten year old son plays, My wife plays, my brother plays all in my home.
Think I dont read up on Curse whats going down with WoW? that I dont download trailers for my wife to see? think I dont help my son research specs? Think I don't help my brother heal with his shaman or tank with his druid when hes late for his raids?
I consider myself a well informed mmo gamer, I would never, EVER give a game a hard time if I wasn't aware of its mechanics and didnt play through them first hand.
I have my issues with WoW for one reason, I was a massive fan of both blizzard products and WoW it self but due to design decisions I left right before the sunwell patch.
Doesnt mean WoW stopped for me dude. it's all around me due to family members.
I find this thread funny. All I said was that WoW is about progression though itemization and I get retarded posts from the one newb saying he xp stopped at 19 to enchant? LOL!
I'm talking about the mass majority of players here. In a item focused game it would be obvious why people play. what motivation they have to continue.
Yet on this forum to say you enjoy item collecting is bad. I wonder did people say the same for diablo back in the day so they didnt seem shallow?
PLaying: EvE, Ryzom
Waiting For: Earthrise, Perpetuum
Jeebus people ... any game/sport can be reduced down to singular goals; whether they be items, ships, new parts, currency, etc. If gear was THE reason to play WoW I would've stopped ages go. Having new items, at least to me, also mean new content to explore and enjoy; if that's not your slice of pie, so beit ... move on.
Btw ... the comment about alts ... funny and ironic.
Edit: Sorry for the derail Coffee ... thanks for posting the update!
Ico
Oh, cruel fate, to be thusly boned. Ask not for whom the bone bones. It bones for thee.
That is very partial view.
Blizz introduced a tool that allows people who want to run dungeons to get it done more comfortably.
That implies everyone only play dungeon? That imply everyone only play for gear.
If the gov't erects cleaner public toilets in downtown, it proves everyone goes to downtown to pee.
Good logic.