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Guildwars 2 = Mythic's Warhammer or Funcom's Aoc or Cryptic's CO?
tbox
Member Posts: 372
Was reading the Guild Wars 2 interview and something the interviewee said I found concerning.
When asked the diferences from GW 1 and GW 2 the dev said among other things "Combat will be less complex and there will not be as many skills." To me, which is not all GW 1 fans but I doubt i am alone, really enjoyed the depth of customization pretaining to skill layouts of your individual character or different group class and skill combinations and the effect it had on group strat and tactics.
Dumbing down the system would be like putting stock 4 cyninder engine in a Ferri. Taking away a key element of guildwars that made it standout from the crowd is counter productive. It reminds me of Mythic changing RvR in Warhammer to what they thought was better then DAOC. Or Cryptic making Champions online as a better version of COX. A better version of guildwars does not included a dumbed down combat system with less skills. Unfortenatly I think the Dev's disagree and we will have a world like EQ and Wow but instead with better graphics and different names for the same thing.
Sorry for the rant I am getting dismayed when these experainced MMO companies on 2nd time around make worse games then the first.
Comments
Spelling and other errors aside... I gotta agree with the OP.
One of my favorite things about GW was the skills and the huge variety that you had. Almost any class could change to better suit whatever they or their group needed and though you had the Trinity (War, Ele, Monk) at first and cookiecutter builds, you could still do your own thing and be creative.
Not just that, but you could actually succeed and do well in the game with your creativity. Just look at the single most well known build in the game: 55 Monk. Someone looked at the skills they had and made something that no one else had thought of and it was over huge with the playerbase.
It sounds like ArenaNet is making the same mistake so many before them have - designing their game for the masses, not for their core audience.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
too early to speculate, or whine, about GW2 gameplay
complex combat =/= great gameplay
taking ANET's statement *in context*, complex gameplay is balancing 1235 skills, 10 primary and secondary professions, and other game mechanics
less skills, but skills with more functions. but im speculating.
gameplay information will be next year! wait for it. no need to panic, or spread false info.
Have fun storming the castle! - Miracle Max
Way to spin it, Doctor. The points were made by them. It's not our speculation.
When they list ways in which they are changing the game from GW, that should be a concern to those who greatly enjoyed it.
Calling it 'whine' is just a petty way of diminishing legitimate concerns.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
yea, it's too early to judge it just yet. But I really hope that not much would change compare to GW.
one pitfall i usually see in complex strong games is the large bucket of customizations and specs people could choose from,
and over a period of time when elistists and eggheads pick apart the game from top to bottom, the realization sets in that out of
say 300 customizations , only 10 percent of that are not only viable, but mandatory if you wish to remain competitive, esspecially
against other players.
then the eerie visual setting of armies upon armies of vanilla specs (flavor of the month or next to fotm) will be all over the game,
negating the idea of complex gameplay, ushering in a world order of laws of "Use this spec, or Die".
yet of course, you do have a few brave, overly insane, or genetically gifted individuals that strive to be original with their own customizations, but commonly they are usually ignored by the masses if they fall short of pulling off the impossible.
Guild Wars did not really suffer this since anet goes around every month with the nerf bat. They typically take really overused builds and knock them down a bit, while taking underused skills and buffing them.
And I agree with illyana, you can knock quite a few skills out of Guild Wars and still have really good customization and complexity. Being b2p, there is a high chance of expansions every 6 months or so like in gw1. Proph didn't start out with the same complexity and customization that Guild Wars has right now. I'm sure that if more expansions come out, they will add in more skills. Hell, imo, half the fun of buying the expansions was in poking at new skills and mechanics.
So, I wouldn't really worry about it just yet until we see just how big of an assortment of skills there will be.
When they list ways in which they are changing the game from GW, that should be a concern to those who greatly enjoyed it.
Calling it 'whine' is just a petty way of diminishing legitimate concerns.
excuse me, but my reply was for the OP
his major concern is ANET will make GW2 *combat* "less complex"
i just put the term *complex* in GW1 context and as ANET sees it, not as the OP sees it
again, TOO EARLY to be concerned now because not everything is set in stone. thats the main reason why they wont talk about gameplay yet.
so much can change between now and launch.
heck, beta isnt even around the corner yet.
and when players get their hands on beta, im sure that theyll let ANET know what they think
i apologized. 'whine' is such an overused term.
its too early to spread negative vibe abt GW2 gameplay.
Have fun storming the castle! - Miracle Max
Then tell the devs to stop doing it.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
A simpler design is more prone to cookie cutter builds than a complex one, not less.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
More complexity =/= better in any way.
As a long time GW player, even with the roughly 1200 skills in the game, warriors are the only class that one can really build a library of more than 3 builds that can be used semi-regularly, and that's mostly because they have a large list of martial weapons they can use. Even then, Dagger and Scythe builds depend on the same elite skill to be usable, so the only variation in those is the 3 attack skills.
Just check out pvxwiki.com, pick any random class, and look at every build rated better than "good." I'll bet you you'll find at most only 3 different elite skills and many of the same skills reused over the entire library. It won't just be elite-ism that's keeping thouse few skills so heavily used, the fact of the matter is that the majority of skills out there are poorly balanced barely usable garbage that will make you regret bringing them halfway through any match/mission.
There's nothing wrong with tightening the scope a little bit so each skill can get more attention from the balancers. Hell, even if the total number of skills towards the end of the GW2 lifecycle reaches 400 it'll still be miles above the competion.
To top that off, the devs also mentioned that each skill will be easier to recognize, meaning more prominent animations. It was great to have 1.2k skills, but when there were only 400 or so animations between them... it all became sort of... samey.
Devs have stated that they are offering fewer skills than what is available in GW1--their reasoning is there is a lot of redundancy with a number of skills currently in GW1 and they want to eliminate that issue with GW2.
As stated here:
The skill system will be modified. There will be fewer skills than the original, with the aim for quality rather than quantity. Skill animations and graphics should provide a clearer indication of the range and effect of a skill as it is used. As in Guild Wars, characters will have access to only a limited number of skills at a time.
Head of studio Mike O'Brien:
"In the original we had over 1.200 skills, which made the game unpractical. Now we've realised that for Guild Wars 2, it's not quantity but quality that matters. So less skills, but more diversity."
"In Guild Wars 2, we will be focusing on the quality of skills and a way to make these skills deeper."
I personally have close to 80 homespun assassin builds. No, I don't use all of them all the time, but I do use at least 10 on a regular basis, and another 15-20 for when I'm feeling like being random. I use a multitude of elite skills(I did use way of the assassin a lot when it could be used on every weapon). Some of my builds didn't even use an elite, because they didn't need them. My guild leader has a ton of mesmer builds, all of them handspun as well. Once again, he uses a lot of different elites.
The real question isn't how many builds are adequate or how many you dick around with. How many builds do you trust enough to bring into DoA, Underworld, or HM FoW?
cuz ive read many, if not all, other previous articles and interviews, not juz this latest exclusive interview that the OP's concern is based upon
your experience in Betas must be based on other games and other companies, not GW's. you're obviously ignorant on how ANET works. ANET listens to its players' opinions. ANET values its playerbase. And the playerbase is a very vocal one. it will not be silenced or banned in forums.
Have fun storming the castle! - Miracle Max
The real question isn't how many builds are adequate or how many you dick around with. How many builds do you trust enough to bring into DoA, Underworld, or HM FoW?
Not as many, but if you take that and add in pvx builds, along with the countless other people inventing builds as we speak, the number starts adding up.
And all of those other builds have their place. The game does not just consist of the hardest pve areas and being the best possible player in pvp. I loved Guild Wars because it let me have the choice to dick around on a fun build that would have me in tears laughing, even as I died.
No, since this is a game we are talking about, the question is: how many do you have fun playing?
It sounds to me that gameplay is being reduced for the sake of eye candy.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
cuz ive read many, if not all, other previous articles and interviews, not juz this latest exclusive interview that the OP's concern is based upon
your experience in Betas must be based on other games and other companies, not GW's. you're obviously ignorant on how ANET works. ANET listens to its players' opinions. ANET values its playerbase. And the playerbase is a very vocal one. it will not be silenced or banned in forums.
Wait and see. Yours may not be a fanboy post, but it's wearing a fanboy uniform.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
cuz ive read many, if not all, other previous articles and interviews, not juz this latest exclusive interview that the OP's concern is based upon
your experience in Betas must be based on other games and other companies, not GW's. you're obviously ignorant on how ANET works. ANET listens to its players' opinions. ANET values its playerbase. And the playerbase is a very vocal one. it will not be silenced or banned in forums.
Wait and see. Yours may not be a fanboy post, but it's wearing a fanboy uniform.
yeah thats what ive been trying to say. wait and see. before you say that the gameplay is 'dumbed down'
Have fun storming the castle! - Miracle Max
"Combat will be less complex and there will not be as many skills."
Less complex means dumbed-down. No other way to look at it.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
"Combat will be less complex and there will not be as many skills."
Less complex means dumbed-down. No other way to look at it.
And that's a good thing. If you ever played the game as it is in its current state, after all the expansions, you'd know that 1200 different skills is hard to balance when the game is balanced around only having 8 skill slots available. It just became too many combinations, and gimmick builds dominate GvG atm, with bloodspam, ranger-spike, dual "syg!" paragons, mind blast elementalists with featherfoot's grace, IoP mesmers, fast-cast blood magic abusers, Hexways, Omegaspike, and only 2 balanced teams that suck in comparison to those.
That's the GvG metagame, and that's what they're adressing. When they posted on the official GW1 and GW2 forums, they directly said, that they will reduce the amount of skills because of this, not because they want it to be playable by a cat with dyslexia.
Less complex means dumbed-down. No other way to look at it.
you're so narrow-minded if thats your only perspective on this matter
its obvious you dont know the state-of-the-game of GW1
and that this change is anet learning from its past mistakes
Have fun storming the castle! - Miracle Max
Pretty much all this means is less skills in the game. They already admitted they had way too many skills in GW and all they are doing is cleaning up a bit for GW2. Quality over quantity is the name of the game here, no need to get your panties in a twist here.
"Combat will be less complex and there will not be as many skills."
Less complex means dumbed-down. No other way to look at it.
no less complex means if they used the same skill set from GW1 it would be way way to complex, as they state in the lastest article.
Too early to know for sure, but if they are talking about reducing the complexity of the system to make it as complex as current MMOs (except TCoS) with linear skills and maybe two or three FOTMs instead of whole possibilities of skill combinations, then they have a high percent chance of failing to meet GW1 player expectations in that regard.
Hopefully we are not talking about THAT degree of lack of complexity, and just a system with far less skills, but with far different effects (less redundancies and less underused skills, GW could really benefit from that). Trust me, it must be a pain in the *** to balance those 1200+ skills and know half of them will be used by less than 10% of the players, because they are in fact underpowered, the possibilities are way too much for a few minds to know how to make them ALL useful.