The end result in WoW progression wise is gear, so how is WoW anymore superior?
That's a pretty simple answer, really.
The "goal" of gear progression may not change, but WoW offers more routes to that goal and caters to more different playstyles than most other MMOs on the market.
And people do like variety.
WoW only caters to Casuals, or players who suck at MMORPGs. Why else would it be popular?
Real MMORPG players won't touch such a dumbed down and boring game.
What a load of nonsense. WoW is an MMORPG just as Darkfall or EVE Online is. I personally much prefer Darkfall Online and EVE Online over themepark MMO's such as WoW or EQ, but both playerbases are 'real MMORPG players'.
Nope.
WoW is a game with no immersion
It's a game with lobbies filled with players who share useless zones
A game where your world consists of random instances with people on different servers
And you have the nerve to give that the same label as real MMORPGs like Everquest or EVE? Go play Diablo 2, maybe you WoW fans can label that as an MMORPG next.
Nope. WoW is a game with no immersion It's a game with lobbies filled with players who share useless zones A game where your world consists of random instances with people on different servers
And you have the nerve to give that the same label as real MMORPGs like Everquest or EVE? Go play Diablo 2, maybe you WoW fans can label that as an MMORPG next.
Mate, I don't need some random nerd to redefine the meaning of 'MMORPG'. I've been around long enough to know full well what an MMORPG is. The fact that an MMO like WoW has instancing doesn't negate the fact that it still has a relatively seemless world (Even compared to other MMORPG's like AoC which is heavy on loading screens) with thousands of players on a single server. WoW is as much an MMORPG as Ultima Online, EVE Online, Darkfall Online.
You have the nerve to redefine the meaning of MMORPG to somebody that has played MMORPG's for 10+ years?
Nope. WoW is a game with no immersion It's a game with lobbies filled with players who share useless zones A game where your world consists of random instances with people on different servers
And you have the nerve to give that the same label as real MMORPGs like Everquest or EVE? Go play Diablo 2, maybe you WoW fans can label that as an MMORPG next.
Mate, I don't need some random nerd to redefine the meaning of 'MMORPG'. I've been around long enough to know full well what an MMORPG is. The fact that an MMO like WoW has instancing doesn't negate the fact that it still has a relatively seemless world (Even compared to other MMORPG's like AoC which is heavy on loading screens) with thousands of players on a single server. WoW is as much an MMORPG as Ultima Online, EVE Online, Darkfall Online.
You have the nerve to redefine the meaning of MMORPG to somebody that has played MMORPG's for 10+ years?
ok bring 1000 player anywhere in wow and try to have a brawl for fun (that is what massive is)
the fact is you cant!so its just a multiplayer online game .you cannot call it massive if you cant have massive amount of player on a single given map.
Nope. WoW is a game with no immersion It's a game with lobbies filled with players who share useless zones A game where your world consists of random instances with people on different servers
And you have the nerve to give that the same label as real MMORPGs like Everquest or EVE? Go play Diablo 2, maybe you WoW fans can label that as an MMORPG next.
Mate, I don't need some random nerd to redefine the meaning of 'MMORPG'. I've been around long enough to know full well what an MMORPG is. The fact that an MMO like WoW has instancing doesn't negate the fact that it still has a relatively seemless world (Even compared to other MMORPG's like AoC which is heavy on loading screens) with thousands of players on a single server. WoW is as much an MMORPG as Ultima Online, EVE Online, Darkfall Online.
You have the nerve to redefine the meaning of MMORPG to somebody that has played MMORPG's for 10+ years?
ok bring 1000 player anywhere in wow and try to have a brawl for fun (that is what massive is)
the fact is you cant!so its just a multiplayer online game .you cannot call it massive if you cant have massive amount of player on a single given map.
Try that if you wish! You could get a fair amount of players into the same spot (Check Orgrimmar bank at peak hours). Shall we forget the fact that this is also a persistant world?
I don't actually like WoW and much prefer player freedom. But that doesn't mean I'm going to make up utterly pointless arguments just for the sake of it.
Nope. WoW is a game with no immersion It's a game with lobbies filled with players who share useless zones A game where your world consists of random instances with people on different servers
And you have the nerve to give that the same label as real MMORPGs like Everquest or EVE? Go play Diablo 2, maybe you WoW fans can label that as an MMORPG next.
Mate, I don't need some random nerd to redefine the meaning of 'MMORPG'. I've been around long enough to know full well what an MMORPG is. The fact that an MMO like WoW has instancing doesn't negate the fact that it still has a relatively seemless world (Even compared to other MMORPG's like AoC which is heavy on loading screens) with thousands of players on a single server. WoW is as much an MMORPG as Ultima Online, EVE Online, Darkfall Online.
You have the nerve to redefine the meaning of MMORPG to somebody that has played MMORPG's for 10+ years?
Apparently you do, and I think you were probably playing RTS games for 10 years if you are gonna label something with instances as some kind of MMORPG. It's a pathetic excuse of a MMORPG if anything. Anything where the world is not connected, where you have random zones that are cut off from everything else.
Relatively seamless and boring world, that has nothing in it except useless towns and newbie zones.
Any part of the game that was important was put into instances.
It's not an MMORPG, get over it. Game reminds me of Guildwars more than anything else. You go into a town that is shared between many players, then when you go out all of the important content is instanced.
As many other have said before me, having a lobby + instanced zones is not an MMORPG.
Nope. WoW is a game with no immersion It's a game with lobbies filled with players who share useless zones A game where your world consists of random instances with people on different servers
And you have the nerve to give that the same label as real MMORPGs like Everquest or EVE? Go play Diablo 2, maybe you WoW fans can label that as an MMORPG next.
Mate, I don't need some random nerd to redefine the meaning of 'MMORPG'. I've been around long enough to know full well what an MMORPG is. The fact that an MMO like WoW has instancing doesn't negate the fact that it still has a relatively seemless world (Even compared to other MMORPG's like AoC which is heavy on loading screens) with thousands of players on a single server. WoW is as much an MMORPG as Ultima Online, EVE Online, Darkfall Online.
You have the nerve to redefine the meaning of MMORPG to somebody that has played MMORPG's for 10+ years?
Apparently you do, and I think you were probably playing RTS games for 10 years if you are gonna label something with instances as some kind of MMORPG. It's a pathetic excuse of a MMORPG if anything. Anything where the world is not connected, where you have random zones that are cut off from everything else.
Relatively seamless and boring world, that has nothing in it except useless towns and newbie zones.
Any part of the game that was important was put into instances.
It's not an MMORPG, get over it. Game reminds me of Guildwars more than anything else. You go into a town that is shared between many players, then when you go out all of the important content is instanced.
As many other have said before me, having a lobby + instanced zones is not an MMORPG.
We get it ginkeq, WoW apparently touched you in a naughty zone when you were younger, and now that your grown up, you harbor a grudge. we get that, cause you come on this site and spew this garbage you call fact all over this forum about how much wow sucks, how great eq is, ect. ect.
While valid opinions, (keep in mind, gravity is a lie, and the sky always is a bright green color are also valid opinions) they are just that your opinions. The reason wow has things that drop epic loot in instances rather than out in the real world like your precious EQ, is the numbers playing the game.
If EQ had instances like wow, it would have had alot more people, because people could go see content, instead of it being farmed by guilds that have the spawn times figured out, and kill the world bosses as they spawn.
I still say your a little kid that is upset because he isn't the only one in epics anymore. You are one of the two types of MMO gamers, there are those who like to have fun, by grouping with other people, and cooperating like a team. (not you) and people who have fun by making it so other people can't have fun. You were probably one of the people who raided and if you were looking for another member demanded that they already have the achievment and gear from the place, otherwise they can't go.
I did not real whole of the OP, but when I read the headline of this thread I completely agree. AO was my first MMO, and I really miss what all new that game had, not neccessarily how I got my levels, but how I felt I was creating a unique toon.
Edit; In fact, I am missing those days so much that I bought the AO CD today as the downloaded game didnt work. For some odd reason.
I think story-based sandbox is the way to go, but currently that's only been done for single-player RPGs. As for Blizzard's new MMO, I highly doubt it. Blizzard isn't going to make such a huge change. They never have. Don't get me wrong, they're good at making games, but Blizzard would make a smaller changes like a new combat system or a new quest system. Did they innovate the RTS genre with Warcraft and Starcraft? Not really. I'm sure they contributed to it, same goes for Diablo, but they didn't change it as a whole.
Nope. WoW is a game with no immersion It's a game with lobbies filled with players who share useless zones A game where your world consists of random instances with people on different servers
And you have the nerve to give that the same label as real MMORPGs like Everquest or EVE? Go play Diablo 2, maybe you WoW fans can label that as an MMORPG next.
Mate, I don't need some random nerd to redefine the meaning of 'MMORPG'. I've been around long enough to know full well what an MMORPG is. The fact that an MMO like WoW has instancing doesn't negate the fact that it still has a relatively seemless world (Even compared to other MMORPG's like AoC which is heavy on loading screens) with thousands of players on a single server. WoW is as much an MMORPG as Ultima Online, EVE Online, Darkfall Online.
You have the nerve to redefine the meaning of MMORPG to somebody that has played MMORPG's for 10+ years?
Apparently you do, and I think you were probably playing RTS games for 10 years if you are gonna label something with instances as some kind of MMORPG. It's a pathetic excuse of a MMORPG if anything. Anything where the world is not connected, where you have random zones that are cut off from everything else.
Relatively seamless and boring world, that has nothing in it except useless towns and newbie zones.
Any part of the game that was important was put into instances.
It's not an MMORPG, get over it. Game reminds me of Guildwars more than anything else. You go into a town that is shared between many players, then when you go out all of the important content is instanced.
As many other have said before me, having a lobby + instanced zones is not an MMORPG.
We get it ginkeq, WoW apparently touched you in a naughty zone when you were younger, and now that your grown up, you harbor a grudge. we get that, cause you come on this site and spew this garbage you call fact all over this forum about how much wow sucks, how great eq is, ect. ect.
While valid opinions, (keep in mind, gravity is a lie, and the sky always is a bright green color are also valid opinions) they are just that your opinions. The reason wow has things that drop epic loot in instances rather than out in the real world like your precious EQ, is the numbers playing the game.
If EQ had instances like wow, it would have had alot more people, because people could go see content, instead of it being farmed by guilds that have the spawn times figured out, and kill the world bosses as they spawn.
I still say your a little kid that is upset because he isn't the only one in epics anymore. You are one of the two types of MMO gamers, there are those who like to have fun, by grouping with other people, and cooperating like a team. (not you) and people who have fun by making it so other people can't have fun. You were probably one of the people who raided and if you were looking for another member demanded that they already have the achievment and gear from the place, otherwise they can't go.
sound familiar?
People didn't have the same gear in EQ, because they sucked.
It had nothing to do with it not being instanced. EQ content was simply more difficult. Think a junk guild can go hang around in zones like NTOV and Sleepers Tomb? Doubt it. Entrance trash would be enough to prevent those bad players from doing anything.
If EQ had instances, there wouldn't be much difference. The bad guilds would chain-wipe and give up.
In WoW though, there isn't any content in that game that a complete newbie can't handle. You're pretty much guaranteed the best gear in the game in WoW just by finding the right zone. Because 99% of the effort in WoW is just showing up to the right zone. It's not like the content is difficult, it hasn't been since 2004/2005
If you played Oblivion/FO3 and loved randomly roaming around and finding things without a waypoint; sandboxes are for you. If you played Oblivion/FO3 and saw the world as a "Whole lot of nothing", for the love of God, stay away from sandboxes.
I fit into the first description. I have massive amounts of fun in Oblivion, had too in Morrowind ( but the combat is horrendous now compared to Oblivion ), and in Daggerfall also ( I'm closely following DaggerXL project nowadays ).
I want freedom in MMORPG's also, I'm tired of the same linear crap everywhere. For linear gameplay i go play a singleplayer game. Last MMO I have played is Allods Online CBT2 and the Siveria zone is just overdone, you cannot get more linear than that. :S
I was searching information about old EQ the other day, and in the info of an early expansion it said: 26 new zones to explore. I was amazed, talk about freedom.....
In WoW though, there isn't any content in that game that a complete newbie can't handle. You're pretty much guaranteed the best gear in the game in WoW just by finding the right zone. Because 99% of the effort in WoW is just showing up to the right zone. It's not like the content is difficult, it hasn't been since 2004/2005
You are on farm for all the hard mode raid in WOW???
You know very few guilds have ever finished those, do u? And you don't get the best gear without doing those, you know that right?
In WoW though, there isn't any content in that game that a complete newbie can't handle. You're pretty much guaranteed the best gear in the game in WoW just by finding the right zone. Because 99% of the effort in WoW is just showing up to the right zone. It's not like the content is difficult, it hasn't been since 2004/2005 You are on farm for all the hard mode raid in WOW??? You know very few guilds have ever finished those, do u? And you don't get the best gear without doing those, you know that right?
Content is content. Why let newbies kill boss X and then have a hard mode boss X?
Why not have the whole zone be inaccessible to those newbies, while they wipe in newbie instances like Molten Core? I mean, that is where newbies belong, right? Molten Core?
Newbies shouldn't be allowed to raid in the same zone as me
In WoW though, there isn't any content in that game that a complete newbie can't handle. You're pretty much guaranteed the best gear in the game in WoW just by finding the right zone. Because 99% of the effort in WoW is just showing up to the right zone. It's not like the content is difficult, it hasn't been since 2004/2005 You are on farm for all the hard mode raid in WOW??? You know very few guilds have ever finished those, do u? And you don't get the best gear without doing those, you know that right?
Content is content. Why let newbies kill boss X and then have a hard mode boss X?
Why not have the whole zone be inaccessible to those newbies, while they wipe in newbie instances like Molten Core? I mean, that is where newbies belong, right? Molten Core?
Newbies shouldn't be allowed to raid in the same zone as me
At least you admit what I said earlier, you are the type of player who doesn't have fun unless you are keeping other players from having fun. Which technically I believe makes you a douchebag. Not too sure on the technicalities there, but I KNOW you are at least an asshole.
Oh high and mighty anti-newb, who likes to kill the EQ world bosses so others can't dream of the ever getting the loot, so sorry that wows lack of content has managed to keep millions of subscribers, while your game has never even come close to reaching those numbers, for we are all wrong, and you are right. Your are the Czar of right while we sit on our sea of wrong, maybe one day, we too will have your wisdom and intellect but until then please try to teach us.
I hate to suggest this game because it is not complete game yet but wait couple of months after release then Mortal Online,by then Earthrise will be out too.One of these game should hopefully statisfy your needs for freedom.
Also do 3rd person,FPS and 2d shooters fans argue about what a real shooter is?
WOW in its end game is as sandbox as EVE. I can craft helicopters, flying carpets and motorbikes in WOW while in EVE I can't even see my own feet. ... Sandbox is there for ANYONE who wants to see it and play it. If you don't see it, it means you don't play it like it can be played.
The main difference between Themepark and Sandbox MMOs:
Themepark MMOs: The game 'world' exists to influence players. Sandbox MMOs: The game 'world' exists for players to influence it. WoW is a static game world, where anything and everything a player does has no lasting impact on the game world. There are very infrequent and slight exceptions to this, such as the AQ gate event, but even that was predetermined with only a single outcome, which was forced to occur if players took to long to do it themselves. WoW is by no means a sandbox MMO, because it's entirely too static.
Only Second Life fits your definition. The thing about MMOs is that everyone wants to be the hero, everyone wants to kill the dragon or defeat the evil empire. And if everyone wants to do it, the event or quest has to reset to get ready for the next person.
In Second Life, if you stop paying, even your changes will be removed from the world.
Except if you let everyone be the hero, suddenly being the hero is completely meaningless and pointless. This is another things that leads to people becoming bored of themepark games.
As opposed to Sandbox games where no one is a hero because everyone can do everything and there is no goal? So your choice is either you want to be a hero, in which everyone can be a hero and therefore no one is unique and different. Or -- no one can be a hero because everyone is exactly the same and there isn't anyone to actually fight, but other non-heroes? Tit for tat!
I take it you've never played a sandbox game before then? One of the freedoms for player choice in sandboxes is usually the choice to kill other players. Bad guys and good guys emerge, you end up with some really bad guys who mass murder everyone, but at the same time you get the anti-pks, the protectors who hunt the murderers, you get exceptionally great players on both sides, so not only in a sandbox can you have heroes, but you can also have villains, aswell as average players and everything in between. In themepark games you just have a game full of average players, if you want to call them all heroes, that's fine, but since they're all heroes, they're really nothing more than average.
Fairy tales.
It does not happen. If you are the attacking side, you are the anti-PKers. if you are the receiving side, the other side is PKer. Fact is, everyone is PKer and pretend they are the crusaders killing the unworthy, and everyone make sure they have enough superiority in number to attack.
At the end, everyone travel in pack, avoid bigger packs and grief the loner who might disconnected sometime and relog back to face your gang alone.
End of your imaginary grand story of heroes and villains.
and Yes I have played my share of UO.
Nor do I think everyone in a "themepark" as you call it, wants to be heroes. Not every alt of mine are heroes, half of my alts are pure crafters, and I enjoy loggin onto them on and off just to craft, and thru that interact with a lot of people. People who mail me materials, send me tells, talk me up, when I log on. Those crafter alts are not even maxed levels, just maxed crafting.
Comments
That's a pretty simple answer, really.
The "goal" of gear progression may not change, but WoW offers more routes to that goal and caters to more different playstyles than most other MMOs on the market.
And people do like variety.
WoW only caters to Casuals, or players who suck at MMORPGs. Why else would it be popular?
Real MMORPG players won't touch such a dumbed down and boring game.
What a load of nonsense. WoW is an MMORPG just as Darkfall or EVE Online is. I personally much prefer Darkfall Online and EVE Online over themepark MMO's such as WoW or EQ, but both playerbases are 'real MMORPG players'.
Nope.
WoW is a game with no immersion
It's a game with lobbies filled with players who share useless zones
A game where your world consists of random instances with people on different servers
And you have the nerve to give that the same label as real MMORPGs like Everquest or EVE? Go play Diablo 2, maybe you WoW fans can label that as an MMORPG next.
Mate, I don't need some random nerd to redefine the meaning of 'MMORPG'. I've been around long enough to know full well what an MMORPG is. The fact that an MMO like WoW has instancing doesn't negate the fact that it still has a relatively seemless world (Even compared to other MMORPG's like AoC which is heavy on loading screens) with thousands of players on a single server. WoW is as much an MMORPG as Ultima Online, EVE Online, Darkfall Online.
You have the nerve to redefine the meaning of MMORPG to somebody that has played MMORPG's for 10+ years?
Mate, I don't need some random nerd to redefine the meaning of 'MMORPG'. I've been around long enough to know full well what an MMORPG is. The fact that an MMO like WoW has instancing doesn't negate the fact that it still has a relatively seemless world (Even compared to other MMORPG's like AoC which is heavy on loading screens) with thousands of players on a single server. WoW is as much an MMORPG as Ultima Online, EVE Online, Darkfall Online.
You have the nerve to redefine the meaning of MMORPG to somebody that has played MMORPG's for 10+ years?
ok bring 1000 player anywhere in wow and try to have a brawl for fun (that is what massive is)
the fact is you cant!so its just a multiplayer online game .you cannot call it massive if you cant have massive amount of player on a single given map.
Mate, I don't need some random nerd to redefine the meaning of 'MMORPG'. I've been around long enough to know full well what an MMORPG is. The fact that an MMO like WoW has instancing doesn't negate the fact that it still has a relatively seemless world (Even compared to other MMORPG's like AoC which is heavy on loading screens) with thousands of players on a single server. WoW is as much an MMORPG as Ultima Online, EVE Online, Darkfall Online.
You have the nerve to redefine the meaning of MMORPG to somebody that has played MMORPG's for 10+ years?
ok bring 1000 player anywhere in wow and try to have a brawl for fun (that is what massive is)
the fact is you cant!so its just a multiplayer online game .you cannot call it massive if you cant have massive amount of player on a single given map.
Try that if you wish! You could get a fair amount of players into the same spot (Check Orgrimmar bank at peak hours). Shall we forget the fact that this is also a persistant world?
I don't actually like WoW and much prefer player freedom. But that doesn't mean I'm going to make up utterly pointless arguments just for the sake of it.
Mate, I don't need some random nerd to redefine the meaning of 'MMORPG'. I've been around long enough to know full well what an MMORPG is. The fact that an MMO like WoW has instancing doesn't negate the fact that it still has a relatively seemless world (Even compared to other MMORPG's like AoC which is heavy on loading screens) with thousands of players on a single server. WoW is as much an MMORPG as Ultima Online, EVE Online, Darkfall Online.
You have the nerve to redefine the meaning of MMORPG to somebody that has played MMORPG's for 10+ years?
Apparently you do, and I think you were probably playing RTS games for 10 years if you are gonna label something with instances as some kind of MMORPG. It's a pathetic excuse of a MMORPG if anything. Anything where the world is not connected, where you have random zones that are cut off from everything else.
Relatively seamless and boring world, that has nothing in it except useless towns and newbie zones.
Any part of the game that was important was put into instances.
It's not an MMORPG, get over it. Game reminds me of Guildwars more than anything else. You go into a town that is shared between many players, then when you go out all of the important content is instanced.
As many other have said before me, having a lobby + instanced zones is not an MMORPG.
Mate, I don't need some random nerd to redefine the meaning of 'MMORPG'. I've been around long enough to know full well what an MMORPG is. The fact that an MMO like WoW has instancing doesn't negate the fact that it still has a relatively seemless world (Even compared to other MMORPG's like AoC which is heavy on loading screens) with thousands of players on a single server. WoW is as much an MMORPG as Ultima Online, EVE Online, Darkfall Online.
You have the nerve to redefine the meaning of MMORPG to somebody that has played MMORPG's for 10+ years?
Apparently you do, and I think you were probably playing RTS games for 10 years if you are gonna label something with instances as some kind of MMORPG. It's a pathetic excuse of a MMORPG if anything. Anything where the world is not connected, where you have random zones that are cut off from everything else.
Relatively seamless and boring world, that has nothing in it except useless towns and newbie zones.
Any part of the game that was important was put into instances.
It's not an MMORPG, get over it. Game reminds me of Guildwars more than anything else. You go into a town that is shared between many players, then when you go out all of the important content is instanced.
As many other have said before me, having a lobby + instanced zones is not an MMORPG.
We get it ginkeq, WoW apparently touched you in a naughty zone when you were younger, and now that your grown up, you harbor a grudge. we get that, cause you come on this site and spew this garbage you call fact all over this forum about how much wow sucks, how great eq is, ect. ect.
While valid opinions, (keep in mind, gravity is a lie, and the sky always is a bright green color are also valid opinions) they are just that your opinions. The reason wow has things that drop epic loot in instances rather than out in the real world like your precious EQ, is the numbers playing the game.
If EQ had instances like wow, it would have had alot more people, because people could go see content, instead of it being farmed by guilds that have the spawn times figured out, and kill the world bosses as they spawn.
I still say your a little kid that is upset because he isn't the only one in epics anymore. You are one of the two types of MMO gamers, there are those who like to have fun, by grouping with other people, and cooperating like a team. (not you) and people who have fun by making it so other people can't have fun. You were probably one of the people who raided and if you were looking for another member demanded that they already have the achievment and gear from the place, otherwise they can't go.
sound familiar?
My Thoughts on Content Locust
I did not real whole of the OP, but when I read the headline of this thread I completely agree. AO was my first MMO, and I really miss what all new that game had, not neccessarily how I got my levels, but how I felt I was creating a unique toon.
Edit; In fact, I am missing those days so much that I bought the AO CD today as the downloaded game didnt work. For some odd reason.
Make us care MORE about our faction & world pvp!
I think story-based sandbox is the way to go, but currently that's only been done for single-player RPGs. As for Blizzard's new MMO, I highly doubt it. Blizzard isn't going to make such a huge change. They never have. Don't get me wrong, they're good at making games, but Blizzard would make a smaller changes like a new combat system or a new quest system. Did they innovate the RTS genre with Warcraft and Starcraft? Not really. I'm sure they contributed to it, same goes for Diablo, but they didn't change it as a whole.
This statement is false.
Mate, I don't need some random nerd to redefine the meaning of 'MMORPG'. I've been around long enough to know full well what an MMORPG is. The fact that an MMO like WoW has instancing doesn't negate the fact that it still has a relatively seemless world (Even compared to other MMORPG's like AoC which is heavy on loading screens) with thousands of players on a single server. WoW is as much an MMORPG as Ultima Online, EVE Online, Darkfall Online.
You have the nerve to redefine the meaning of MMORPG to somebody that has played MMORPG's for 10+ years?
Apparently you do, and I think you were probably playing RTS games for 10 years if you are gonna label something with instances as some kind of MMORPG. It's a pathetic excuse of a MMORPG if anything. Anything where the world is not connected, where you have random zones that are cut off from everything else.
Relatively seamless and boring world, that has nothing in it except useless towns and newbie zones.
Any part of the game that was important was put into instances.
It's not an MMORPG, get over it. Game reminds me of Guildwars more than anything else. You go into a town that is shared between many players, then when you go out all of the important content is instanced.
As many other have said before me, having a lobby + instanced zones is not an MMORPG.
We get it ginkeq, WoW apparently touched you in a naughty zone when you were younger, and now that your grown up, you harbor a grudge. we get that, cause you come on this site and spew this garbage you call fact all over this forum about how much wow sucks, how great eq is, ect. ect.
While valid opinions, (keep in mind, gravity is a lie, and the sky always is a bright green color are also valid opinions) they are just that your opinions. The reason wow has things that drop epic loot in instances rather than out in the real world like your precious EQ, is the numbers playing the game.
If EQ had instances like wow, it would have had alot more people, because people could go see content, instead of it being farmed by guilds that have the spawn times figured out, and kill the world bosses as they spawn.
I still say your a little kid that is upset because he isn't the only one in epics anymore. You are one of the two types of MMO gamers, there are those who like to have fun, by grouping with other people, and cooperating like a team. (not you) and people who have fun by making it so other people can't have fun. You were probably one of the people who raided and if you were looking for another member demanded that they already have the achievment and gear from the place, otherwise they can't go.
sound familiar?
People didn't have the same gear in EQ, because they sucked.
It had nothing to do with it not being instanced. EQ content was simply more difficult. Think a junk guild can go hang around in zones like NTOV and Sleepers Tomb? Doubt it. Entrance trash would be enough to prevent those bad players from doing anything.
If EQ had instances, there wouldn't be much difference. The bad guilds would chain-wipe and give up.
In WoW though, there isn't any content in that game that a complete newbie can't handle. You're pretty much guaranteed the best gear in the game in WoW just by finding the right zone. Because 99% of the effort in WoW is just showing up to the right zone. It's not like the content is difficult, it hasn't been since 2004/2005
I fit into the first description.
I have massive amounts of fun in Oblivion, had too in Morrowind ( but the combat is horrendous now compared to Oblivion ), and in Daggerfall also ( I'm closely following DaggerXL project nowadays 
).
I want freedom in MMORPG's also, I'm tired of the same linear crap everywhere. For linear gameplay i go play a singleplayer game. Last MMO I have played is Allods Online CBT2 and the Siveria zone is just overdone, you cannot get more linear than that. :S
I was searching information about old EQ the other day, and in the info of an early expansion it said: 26 new zones to explore. I was amazed, talk about freedom.....
In WoW though, there isn't any content in that game that a complete newbie can't handle. You're pretty much guaranteed the best gear in the game in WoW just by finding the right zone. Because 99% of the effort in WoW is just showing up to the right zone. It's not like the content is difficult, it hasn't been since 2004/2005
You are on farm for all the hard mode raid in WOW???
You know very few guilds have ever finished those, do u? And you don't get the best gear without doing those, you know that right?
Content is content. Why let newbies kill boss X and then have a hard mode boss X?
Why not have the whole zone be inaccessible to those newbies, while they wipe in newbie instances like Molten Core? I mean, that is where newbies belong, right? Molten Core?
Newbies shouldn't be allowed to raid in the same zone as me
Content is content. Why let newbies kill boss X and then have a hard mode boss X?
Why not have the whole zone be inaccessible to those newbies, while they wipe in newbie instances like Molten Core? I mean, that is where newbies belong, right? Molten Core?
Newbies shouldn't be allowed to raid in the same zone as me
At least you admit what I said earlier, you are the type of player who doesn't have fun unless you are keeping other players from having fun. Which technically I believe makes you a douchebag. Not too sure on the technicalities there, but I KNOW you are at least an asshole.
Oh high and mighty anti-newb, who likes to kill the EQ world bosses so others can't dream of the ever getting the loot, so sorry that wows lack of content has managed to keep millions of subscribers, while your game has never even come close to reaching those numbers, for we are all wrong, and you are right. Your are the Czar of right while we sit on our sea of wrong, maybe one day, we too will have your wisdom and intellect but until then please try to teach us.
My Thoughts on Content Locust
I hate to suggest this game because it is not complete game yet but wait couple of months after release then Mortal Online,by then Earthrise will be out too.One of these game should hopefully statisfy your needs for freedom.
Also do 3rd person,FPS and 2d shooters fans argue about what a real shooter is?
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
It's no secret that you are as delusional as fanbois come, but I still appreciate a good laugh. Thanks
Tried: LotR, CoH, AoC, WAR, Jumpgate Classic
Played: SWG, Guild Wars, WoW
Playing: Eve Online, Counter-strike
Loved: Star Wars Galaxies
Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, anything sandbox.
Only Second Life fits your definition. The thing about MMOs is that everyone wants to be the hero, everyone wants to kill the dragon or defeat the evil empire. And if everyone wants to do it, the event or quest has to reset to get ready for the next person.
In Second Life, if you stop paying, even your changes will be removed from the world.
Except if you let everyone be the hero, suddenly being the hero is completely meaningless and pointless. This is another things that leads to people becoming bored of themepark games.
As opposed to Sandbox games where no one is a hero because everyone can do everything and there is no goal? So your choice is either you want to be a hero, in which everyone can be a hero and therefore no one is unique and different. Or -- no one can be a hero because everyone is exactly the same and there isn't anyone to actually fight, but other non-heroes? Tit for tat!
I take it you've never played a sandbox game before then? One of the freedoms for player choice in sandboxes is usually the choice to kill other players. Bad guys and good guys emerge, you end up with some really bad guys who mass murder everyone, but at the same time you get the anti-pks, the protectors who hunt the murderers, you get exceptionally great players on both sides, so not only in a sandbox can you have heroes, but you can also have villains, aswell as average players and everything in between. In themepark games you just have a game full of average players, if you want to call them all heroes, that's fine, but since they're all heroes, they're really nothing more than average.
Fairy tales.
It does not happen. If you are the attacking side, you are the anti-PKers. if you are the receiving side, the other side is PKer. Fact is, everyone is PKer and pretend they are the crusaders killing the unworthy, and everyone make sure they have enough superiority in number to attack.
At the end, everyone travel in pack, avoid bigger packs and grief the loner who might disconnected sometime and relog back to face your gang alone.
End of your imaginary grand story of heroes and villains.
and Yes I have played my share of UO.
Nor do I think everyone in a "themepark" as you call it, wants to be heroes. Not every alt of mine are heroes, half of my alts are pure crafters, and I enjoy loggin onto them on and off just to craft, and thru that interact with a lot of people. People who mail me materials, send me tells, talk me up, when I log on. Those crafter alts are not even maxed levels, just maxed crafting.
Player freedom!