The game will be a great singleplayer game. But anyone calling it an MMORPG at this point is just lying to themselves.
ToR has a LFG option for every quest and dungeon. Nice try.
Now I see what the OP meant about the rabid fanboys, yikes.
Having a series of instanced hubs that you can warp friends you've made outside the game into,is not an MMORPG.
Traditionally, MMORPGs are massive virtual worlds where you interact with 10s of thousands of other players.
This game, is built around the solo player. From the mouth of the devs themselves 99% of the content in the game can be done solo. They even went so far as to make player companions to make soloing easier so you can have a healer bot with you instead of another player.
MMORPGs are not a series of instanced hubs(levels). That is Diablo. That is Titan's Quest. That is not EverQuest. Hell, Borderlands was more of an MMO than this game seems to be.
I am not a troll, I am stating facts. If you think all an MMORPG is, is a LFG tool, then I can tell your first MMO must have been WoW or something.
Not worth reading I figure it says it has soloing therefore its a SP game. You don't know facts actually you know next to nothing. First MMO was SWG actually, again, nice try.
The trolling is strong with this one. You said you didn't read, then you commented on what I posted. Strange indeed.
I don't know anyone who has ever said a LFG tool breaks player interaction. I am pretty sure LFG tools have been in every single MMORPG since 1999. No MMOs had you instantly warp into a dungeon like an FPS game though, now THAT is a bad system for anyone that values a real virtual world. Fine for casuals.
And this game doesn't just "have" single player. It IS primary FOCUSED on single player. There is absolutely NO incentive to group, therefore, people will not. The devs want people to be able to log in for a half hour and get some of their quest line done. There is no open world, there is no place for people who don't want to solo, to run into and meet other players, you log into your instance and you go through your quests. The only time you won't be soloing is when you go out of your way to invite a real life friend or something. The game has a few "social" or "PvP" hubs that might as well just be chat rooms with graphics. Nothing actually happens there. I don't think you know how MMOs work.
Skimming is not necessarily reading Sigmus. Trolling calling troll is pretty funny to. Nice work.
The story arc is the primary focus of the Solo play. Odds are BioWare is going to go with group scaling (increasing difficulty, gear stats etc) , I would say that gives plenty incentive. The instancing is mostly used in the story, where I said thats where most of the solo play is, there is no real instancing (outside questlines) in ToR, they are taking the phasing route, even then phasing it not used in the open world, just buildings.
Edited for clarity
First, phasing is a form of instancing.
Second, there's a game that uses that scalability thing that you described, it's called Diablo.
I don't get how you guys are even trying to argue this. Out of the devs mouth themselves they said they are focusing on single player and making 99% of the content soloable.
Second, there's a game that uses that scalability thing that you described, it's called Diablo. I don't get how you guys are even trying to argue this. Out of the devs mouth themselves they said they are focusing on single player and making 99% of the content soloable.
So now it's a complaint that it's a form of instancing, I guess the zero loading screens don't matter.
And your second point is? Diablo uses it, that's it? Not even going to try? Ok so hold on. Diablo used scaling which gave better drops and more difficult mobs. Therefore that's bad?
The devs said 95% of the story arc is soloable.
Let's go beyond that shall we? With everything aside why do YOU need incentive to group? I group out of enjoyment, to have the company of another player. With story shift caused by having other players I'm even more set on grouping with people. SWG, considered the best sandbox of all time by many, was almost completely soloable, but many people grouped. I'm not sure what point you're trying to prove to everybody or why you have to share your opinion in almost every thread (which is basically the same short non-witty sentence), what are you getting out of this?
Second, there's a game that uses that scalability thing that you described, it's called Diablo. I don't get how you guys are even trying to argue this. Out of the devs mouth themselves they said they are focusing on single player and making 99% of the content soloable.
So now it's a complaint that it's a form of instancing, I guess the zero loading screens don't matter.
And your second point is? Diablo uses it, that's it? Not even going to try? Ok so hold on. Diablo used scaling which gave better drops and more difficult mobs. Therefore that's bad?
The devs said 95% of the story arc is soloable.
Let's go beyond that shall we? With everything aside why do YOU need incentive to group? I group out of enjoyment, to have the company of another player. With story shift caused by having other players I'm even more set on grouping with people. SWG, considered the best sandbox of all time by many, was almost completely soloable, but many people grouped. I'm not sure what point you're trying to prove to everybody or why you have to share your opinion in almost every thread (which is basically the same short non-witty sentence), what are you getting out of this?
Calling SWG the best sandbox ever is the first sign you aren't familiar with what a sandbox is, much less an MMO.
When you give someone the ability to solo most of the game, they will, and grouping with be an abnormality, not common practice. Is there even a game world to this game? Can I go into a random place I find without having the proper quest?
Calling SWG the best sandbox ever is the first sign you aren't familiar with what a sandbox is, much less an MMO. "SWG, considered the best sandbox of all time by many" I never said this was my thought, but since we are here, what's a sandbox mmo?
When you give someone the ability to solo most of the game, they will, and grouping with be an abnormality, not common practice. Is there even a game world to this game? Can I go into a random place I find without having the proper quest? Well of course people will. What's this have to do with you though? Are you not your own man? Take initiative, form a group. Do you need BioWare to hold your hand in this matter? I know I don't.
Further proof you're here to just cause a ruckus, didn't even answer my final question. You're as bad as those religious door visitors that keep handing me pamphlets telling me to repent and the end is near.
Don't worry the boards will turn into a cesspool of complaining like every other game day 1 and then 30 day it will turn into worse game ever.It happen in AoC,It happen in War,It happen in Aion.As soon as real money comes into play fanboism dies down quite a bit.
Don't worry the boards will turn into a cesspool of complaining like every other game day 1 and then 30 day it will turn into worse game ever.It happen in AoC,It happen in War,It happen in Aion.As soon as real money comes into play fanboism dies down quite a bit.
Funcom and Mythic can't compete with modern MMOs. NCsoft....LOL.
There is only a few competent MMO companies left. If I had a throw my vote out there it would be CCP, I don't like EvE but I see how they keep there player base happy.
I don't know anyone who has ever said a LFG tool breaks player interaction. I am pretty sure LFG tools have been in every single MMORPG since 1999. No MMOs had you instantly warp into a dungeon like an FPS game though, now THAT is a bad system for anyone that values a real virtual world. Fine for casuals. And this game doesn't just "have" single player. It IS primary FOCUSED on single player. There is absolutely NO incentive to group, therefore, people will not. The devs want people to be able to log in for a half hour and get some of their quest line done. There is no open world, there is no place for people who don't want to solo, to run into and meet other players, you log into your instance and you go through your quests. The only time you won't be soloing is when you go out of your way to invite a real life friend or something. The game has a few "social" or "PvP" hubs that might as well just be chat rooms with graphics. Nothing actually happens there. I don't think you know how MMOs work.
Seems to me that most people like to solo while leveling, and group at end-game. You're basically on rails in any level based questing game anyways, so I really don't see the harm in taking it to the next level, especially if it means the leveling experience becomes more entertaining on the whole. It's essentially a better leveling experience.
How the gameworld evolves at end-game is the only real question of merit. Whether it becomes more open world, how players interact, if and how grouping becomes important, how PvP will play out, etc. Since we aren't aware of what the "end-game" of SWtOR consists of, I think its pretty premature to assume anything. If nothing else Bioware has been made aware of this player concern, and they have plenty of time and money to address it.
Originally posted by comerb Seems to me that most people like to solo while leveling, and group at end-game. You're basically on rails in any level based questing game anyways, so I really don't see the harm in taking it to the next level, especially if it means the leveling experience becomes more entertaining on the whole. It's essentially a better leveling experience. How the gameworld evolves at end-game is the only real question of merit. Whether it becomes more open world, how players interact, if and how grouping becomes important, how PvP will play out, etc. Since we aren't aware of what the "end-game" of SWtOR consists of, I think its pretty premature to assume anything. If nothing else Bioware has been made aware of this player concern, and they have plenty of time and money to address it.
I think that largely depends on what the grouping mechanics is like. If playing with another person opens some really fun play possibilities because of how the classes interact,then people will really want to group for that reason. If not then people are only likely to group with friends whom they already knew for a while in real life (unless the game provides some way to meet people while leveling, I suppose).
I will pre-order for 1 reason. If the game is at least 65% of what I expect BioWare to provide to me as a customer that will be better than playing WoW. If SWG had a community I would play it, but If some other older games I miss had the same community they use to, i would probably still be playing them.
What Everyone Fails to understand is that it's not the game that makes the game fun. It's the people you play with. How is this logic flawless you ask?
Best Example I can Give - Everquest - The game itself was a medium at best, however the community of Everquest was the best out of all the other games I have played. And, I have been playing MMOs for like 11 yrs.
What I expect out of ToR - Fun and fast paced combat. A great story for every class. Beautiful scenery. Rich Lore behind each class which also goes back to the story.
What I hope will one day come out of ToR - I would love to see a housing system like SWG. I would like crafting to be a class all on its own like in swg. (Think about it, the Trader could be a neutral class, republic, or empire. Neutral does not care for either side just wants the $$, rebulic traders only craft for the the replublic and visversa for the empire. That would make for some interesty story possiblities) Plus just having a class that only crafts and has minimal fighting skills if any at all, would be fun. Don't wanna play to beat stuff up all day? It would bring other player types to the game. People that don't really care for combat but love community and crafting. I think Entertainers should be another class put in the game. Would be another Neutral class with a fun story. Check this, you are a slave entertainer and as your story progresses, you get sold several times, get to explore the galaxy and finally some how manage to break free of the crap life you once had and worked your way into a city and make a name for yourself. That would also be a very fun alternative to the mind grulling grind. People can hate on SWG and how it is today , but I am here to tell you the divirsity of the classes in SWG are the best in any other mmorpg. The Only reason SWG died is because Humans do not like change and change scares us for the most part. Though, I never played SWG pre (w/e).
Dang Sorry, got off on a tangent there for a sec. Anywho, I lost my train of thought. So there is my 2 cents lol.
I will pre-order for 1 reason. If the game is at least 65% of what I expect BioWare to provide to me as a customer that will be better than playing WoW. If SWG had a community I would play it, but If some other older games I miss had the same community they use to, i would probably still be playing them. What Everyone Fails to understand is that it's not the game that makes the game fun. It's the people you play with. How is this logic flawless you ask? Best Example I can Give - Everquest - The game itself was a medium at best, however the community of Everquest was the best out of all the other games I have played. And, I have been playing MMOs for like 11 yrs. What I expect out of ToR - Fun and fast paced combat. A great story for every class. Beautiful scenery. Rich Lore behind each class which also goes back to the story. What I hope will one day come out of ToR - I would love to see a housing system like SWG. I would like crafting to be a class all on its own like in swg. (Think about it, the Trader could be a neutral class, republic, or empire. Neutral does not care for either side just wants the $$, rebulic traders only craft for the the replublic and visversa for the empire. That would make for some interesty story possiblities) Plus just having a class that only crafts and has minimal fighting skills if any at all, would be fun. Don't wanna play to beat stuff up all day? It would bring other player types to the game. People that don't really care for combat but love community and crafting. I think Entertainers should be another class put in the game. Would be another Neutral class with a fun story. Check this, you are a slave entertainer and as your story progresses, you get sold several times, get to explore the galaxy and finally some how manage to break free of the crap life you once had and worked your way into a city and make a name for yourself. That would also be a very fun alternative to the mind grulling grind. People can hate on SWG and how it is today , but I am here to tell you the divirsity of the classes in SWG are the best in any other mmorpg. The Only reason SWG died is because Humans do not like change and change scares us for the most part. Though, I never played SWG pre (w/e). Dang Sorry, got off on a tangent there for a sec. Anywho, I lost my train of thought. So there is my 2 cents lol.
Good points Rakuji, pretty much my way of thinking too.
Playing with friends and having fun can overcome any game flaws, I stayed in swg for 6 years mainly on the fact my friends were there and we all know the ups and downs swg had in that time frame. I too have been playing mmo's for that length of time and in my time played some dodgy games but again its the people around you that can bring in the element of fun. I don't play SWG anymore but I'm just waiting on some free time for Vets to see how it is.
On a side note: I contacted SOE about vets getting some free time, the reply I got wasn't the usual standard It said "yeah me too, when I find out I'll email you." lol
Also I'm all for housing, I've made a few posts in the official forum and the general impression I got was that a lot of players want it too, so I do think it will be implemented at some point in the game.
Overall I can't wait for SW:TOR to advance to beta stage so we can get some real evidence of how gameplay etc is. *fingers crossed it happens soon*:)
Anyone else notice this. I'm not talking about optimism...
I'm not really surprised. See that with a lot of games on their official forums.
The one thing that is a bit stunning to me are the amount that seem to want to turn this into a single player game.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
Originally posted by SignusM There is absolutely NO incentive to group, therefore, people will not. The devs want people to be able to log in for a half hour and get some of their quest line done. There is no open world, there is no place for people who don't want to solo, to run into and meet other players, you log into your instance and you go through your quests. The only time you won't be soloing is when you go out of your way to invite a real life friend or something. The game has a few "social" or "PvP" hubs that might as well just be chat rooms with graphics. Nothing actually happens there. I don't think you know how MMOs work.
Ahhhhh....
I'm not talking about what you've read, and what or how you have taken it, but maybe you can fill us in how you know that there isnt an incentive to group, or that it only has a few social or PvP hubs?
Have you spent hours playing the game with diverse others?
Are you, or were you a member of the either Bioware/Lucas Arts/EA group who has had some involvement and input into the design of the game?
If the answer to both is "no", then I think we all know exactly the credibility your opinion has, and yes, it's opinion, not fact.
Look, Bioware has touted what they think is going to make their game different, and that's the whole story bit. They havent chosen to share how that impacts the whole world, or the traditional MMO world. You can hazzard a guess that it means there isnt one, and you might be proven right. Or you could think that they are pitching what makes 'em different, and not the same, and between now and release, we'll end up getting a lot more details about some of those traditional MMO hallmarks. Look at it this way, the Sept. Pax video with a flashpoint sequence; why did Bioware show that off with two players, instead of a player and a companion? Are companions not done? Are there events you cant use companions for? If you have another real player in group does that prohibit the use of companions? It's really a rhetorical question, simply becase there isnt info that points either way.
Bottom line, there isnt enough info out there to draw an opinion either way. You are certainly entitled to have one, but dont foolishly pretend it is fact, and dont for a second think that a differing point of view might not be equally valid.
I'm definitely a fan, but I've got reservations as well, but there just isnt enough known about the game yet for me to form any kind of well supported opinion. Yes, it is a large part of that not knowing that is cause for the reservations I do have.
Anyone else notice this. I'm not talking about optimism...
I'm not really surprised. See that with a lot of games on their official forums.
The one thing that is a bit stunning to me are the amount that seem to want to turn this into a single player game.
Kotor / Kotor 2 / Jade Empire / Mass effect / Dargon Age are all excellant to great single player RPGs. Most Bioware fans come from the backround of having enjoyed the great stories that these single player rpgs told. The majority of Bioware fans are most likely not MMO fans. So the fact that these folks want something that they enjoyed in the past is a surprise to you?
Originally posted by catlana Kotor / Kotor 2 / Jade Empire / Mass effect / Dargon Age are all excellant to great single player RPGs. Most Bioware fans come from the backround of having enjoyed the great stories that these single player rpgs told. The majority of Bioware fans are most likely not MMO fans. So the fact that these folks want something that they enjoyed in the past is a surprise to you?
Considering it's supposed to be an mmorpg, yes I find it a bit surprising. I'm a fan of Bioware games too that doesn't mean I want the same gameplay from a game like Dragon Age in TOR.
Regardless of whether they're mmo fans or not, you would think they would be able to differentiate between the two or realize what works for a single player perspective is not necessarily going to work or even be beneficial when talking about an mmorpg.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
Originally posted by catlana Kotor / Kotor 2 / Jade Empire / Mass effect / Dargon Age are all excellant to great single player RPGs. Most Bioware fans come from the backround of having enjoyed the great stories that these single player rpgs told. The majority of Bioware fans are most likely not MMO fans. So the fact that these folks want something that they enjoyed in the past is a surprise to you?
Considering it's supposed to be an mmorpg, yes I find it a bit surprising. I'm a fan of Bioware games too that doesn't mean I want the same gameplay from a game like Dragon Age in TOR.
Regardless of whether they're mmo fans or not, you would think they would be able to differentiate between the two or realize what works for a single player perspective is not necessarily going to work or even be beneficial when talking about an mmorpg.
It isn't the same as Dragon Age though. Yes, you can solo your personal storyline, but you can also group up for it (and it seems like the encounters scale with people). In a group one individual doesn't control the conversation, even if that person initiated talks (unlike NWN for instance). Instead they have a group dialogue system so everyone participates.
So, it's a story of your making if you want, but quite easily one of the making of you and your friends and those friends you meet online. Pretty cool stuff, I think. Basically, it is making it so that you and others playing get MEANINGFUL decisions to make during quests. How can anyone argue that's a bad thing? MMOs have been severely lacking meaningful choices in this are for a long time. I want quests where I get to make decisions. I want quests where those decisions have consequences and matter for more than an instant. I want quests where my friends and I can all make such decisions. TOR does all of this.
This isn't a single-player story game, it's a massively multi-player story game.
Story driven could mean a lot of things. It could be a system like LOTRO where you have a epic story thread you work on, but there are regular quests/instances all along the way. Just because they say stroy driven, and they made dragon age and KOTOR does not mean this game will be the same as those. I know how important it is to keep the panic and the doomsaying rolling, but can we please find other things to assume and therefore hate this game about?
I'm sure if you guys try you can find something other than the fact it will be story driven to infer all kinds of crazy stuff that will mean this game is a train wreck. I have faith in you.
It isn't the same as Dragon Age though. Yes, you can solo your personal storyline, but you can also group up for it (and it seems like the encounters scale with people). In a group one individual doesn't control the conversation, even if that person initiated talks (unlike NWN for instance). Instead they have a group dialogue system so everyone participates.
So, it's a story of your making if you want, but quite easily one of the making of you and your friends and those friends you meet online. Pretty cool stuff, I think. Basically, it is making it so that you and others playing get MEANINGFUL decisions to make during quests. How can anyone argue that's a bad thing? MMOs have been severely lacking meaningful choices in this are for a long time. I want quests where I get to make decisions. I want quests where those decisions have consequences and matter for more than an instant. I want quests where my friends and I can all make such decisions. TOR does all of this. This isn't a single-player story game, it's a massively multi-player story game.
-_-
I was using that as an example not saying that is what Bioware is intending nor did I complain about how Bioware is handling things. I'm talking about some of the posters on those forums that want things such as no set group or raid content or the option to solo everything in the game and never group with anyone yet feel they should aslo be able to have the exact same items and go through the exact same content as those that do a raid. Not to mention some other jewels some want incorporated to essentially make it a single player game with optional co-op if you want rather than an mmorpg.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
So true. I asked a question about the cover system saying that the system could possibly be an "instant win" button because it might give you too much of a distinct advantage. Ofcourse the fanbois got on my case about it but I thought it was a legit question considering nobody has yet to try the new "cover system" out yet. If this is any indication how the community will behave then I'm afraid the community will be as bad as WoW. I just hope I get in a guild with good mature fun people to play with.
It isn't the same as Dragon Age though. Yes, you can solo your personal storyline, but you can also group up for it (and it seems like the encounters scale with people). In a group one individual doesn't control the conversation, even if that person initiated talks (unlike NWN for instance). Instead they have a group dialogue system so everyone participates.
So, it's a story of your making if you want, but quite easily one of the making of you and your friends and those friends you meet online. Pretty cool stuff, I think. Basically, it is making it so that you and others playing get MEANINGFUL decisions to make during quests. How can anyone argue that's a bad thing? MMOs have been severely lacking meaningful choices in this are for a long time. I want quests where I get to make decisions. I want quests where those decisions have consequences and matter for more than an instant. I want quests where my friends and I can all make such decisions. TOR does all of this. This isn't a single-player story game, it's a massively multi-player story game.
-_-
I was using that as an example not saying that is what Bioware is intending nor did I complain about how Bioware is handling things. I'm talking about some of the posters on those forums that want things such as no set group or raid content so they option to solo everything in the game and never group with anyone yet feel they should aslo be able to have the exact same items and go through the exact same content as those that do a raid. Not to mention some other jewels some want to essentially make it a single player game with optional co-op if you want rather than an mmorpg.
My apologies. I'm trying to filter out most of the stupid fighting. I'm not sure you should take such talk seriously. All of it that I have seen has been in response to people coming across as trolling the game. People get overly defensive in response to that. I agree that IF it was just Dragonage with some group content, it would not be worth a subscription fee...that's just Diablo with some better story telling (roughly speaking). Thankfully the game won't be that...and I don't think there's much of anyone that would want it that way.
So true. I asked a question about the cover system saying that the system could possibly be an "instant win" button because it might give you too much of a distinct advantage. Ofcourse the fanbois got on my case about it but I thought it was a legit question considering nobody has yet to try the new "cover system" out yet. If this is any indication how the community will behave then I'm afraid the community will be as bad as WoW. I just hope I get in a guild with good mature fun people to play with.
I'd imagine they'd balance it. Probably it is because the Smuggler has crappy defenses, so he needs cover to make up. I doubt it will be OP at all. Seems like an obvious thing to look at from a balance perspective. That said, we won't really know how the implementation plays out until we get some idea of how beta is progressing (and it hasn't started yet, from what I know). The game is a while from release. If it was 2 months away and we knew this little, then I wouldn't buy it...but it looks like it is more like 10 months or more.
Comments
ToR has a LFG option for every quest and dungeon. Nice try.
Now I see what the OP meant about the rabid fanboys, yikes.
Having a series of instanced hubs that you can warp friends you've made outside the game into,is not an MMORPG.
Traditionally, MMORPGs are massive virtual worlds where you interact with 10s of thousands of other players.
This game, is built around the solo player. From the mouth of the devs themselves 99% of the content in the game can be done solo. They even went so far as to make player companions to make soloing easier so you can have a healer bot with you instead of another player.
MMORPGs are not a series of instanced hubs(levels). That is Diablo. That is Titan's Quest. That is not EverQuest. Hell, Borderlands was more of an MMO than this game seems to be.
I am not a troll, I am stating facts. If you think all an MMORPG is, is a LFG tool, then I can tell your first MMO must have been WoW or something.
Not worth reading I figure it says it has soloing therefore its a SP game. You don't know facts actually you know next to nothing. First MMO was SWG actually, again, nice try.
The trolling is strong with this one. You said you didn't read, then you commented on what I posted. Strange indeed.
I don't know anyone who has ever said a LFG tool breaks player interaction. I am pretty sure LFG tools have been in every single MMORPG since 1999. No MMOs had you instantly warp into a dungeon like an FPS game though, now THAT is a bad system for anyone that values a real virtual world. Fine for casuals.
And this game doesn't just "have" single player. It IS primary FOCUSED on single player. There is absolutely NO incentive to group, therefore, people will not. The devs want people to be able to log in for a half hour and get some of their quest line done. There is no open world, there is no place for people who don't want to solo, to run into and meet other players, you log into your instance and you go through your quests. The only time you won't be soloing is when you go out of your way to invite a real life friend or something. The game has a few "social" or "PvP" hubs that might as well just be chat rooms with graphics. Nothing actually happens there. I don't think you know how MMOs work.
Skimming is not necessarily reading Sigmus. Trolling calling troll is pretty funny to. Nice work.
The story arc is the primary focus of the Solo play. Odds are BioWare is going to go with group scaling (increasing difficulty, gear stats etc) , I would say that gives plenty incentive. The instancing is mostly used in the story, where I said thats where most of the solo play is, there is no real instancing (outside questlines) in ToR, they are taking the phasing route, even then phasing it not used in the open world, just buildings.
Edited for clarity
First, phasing is a form of instancing.
Second, there's a game that uses that scalability thing that you described, it's called Diablo.
I don't get how you guys are even trying to argue this. Out of the devs mouth themselves they said they are focusing on single player and making 99% of the content soloable.
Darkfall Travelogues!
So now it's a complaint that it's a form of instancing, I guess the zero loading screens don't matter.
And your second point is? Diablo uses it, that's it? Not even going to try? Ok so hold on. Diablo used scaling which gave better drops and more difficult mobs. Therefore that's bad?
The devs said 95% of the story arc is soloable.
Let's go beyond that shall we? With everything aside why do YOU need incentive to group? I group out of enjoyment, to have the company of another player. With story shift caused by having other players I'm even more set on grouping with people. SWG, considered the best sandbox of all time by many, was almost completely soloable, but many people grouped. I'm not sure what point you're trying to prove to everybody or why you have to share your opinion in almost every thread (which is basically the same short non-witty sentence), what are you getting out of this?
So now it's a complaint that it's a form of instancing, I guess the zero loading screens don't matter.
And your second point is? Diablo uses it, that's it? Not even going to try? Ok so hold on. Diablo used scaling which gave better drops and more difficult mobs. Therefore that's bad?
The devs said 95% of the story arc is soloable.
Let's go beyond that shall we? With everything aside why do YOU need incentive to group? I group out of enjoyment, to have the company of another player. With story shift caused by having other players I'm even more set on grouping with people. SWG, considered the best sandbox of all time by many, was almost completely soloable, but many people grouped. I'm not sure what point you're trying to prove to everybody or why you have to share your opinion in almost every thread (which is basically the same short non-witty sentence), what are you getting out of this?
Calling SWG the best sandbox ever is the first sign you aren't familiar with what a sandbox is, much less an MMO.
When you give someone the ability to solo most of the game, they will, and grouping with be an abnormality, not common practice. Is there even a game world to this game? Can I go into a random place I find without having the proper quest?
Darkfall Travelogues!
Looks like the black guy from Return of the Living Dead.
Further proof you're here to just cause a ruckus, didn't even answer my final question. You're as bad as those religious door visitors that keep handing me pamphlets telling me to repent and the end is near.
Don't worry the boards will turn into a cesspool of complaining like every other game day 1 and then 30 day it will turn into worse game ever.It happen in AoC,It happen in War,It happen in Aion.As soon as real money comes into play fanboism dies down quite a bit.
Funcom and Mythic can't compete with modern MMOs. NCsoft....LOL.
There is only a few competent MMO companies left. If I had a throw my vote out there it would be CCP, I don't like EvE but I see how they keep there player base happy.
Seems to me that most people like to solo while leveling, and group at end-game. You're basically on rails in any level based questing game anyways, so I really don't see the harm in taking it to the next level, especially if it means the leveling experience becomes more entertaining on the whole. It's essentially a better leveling experience.
How the gameworld evolves at end-game is the only real question of merit. Whether it becomes more open world, how players interact, if and how grouping becomes important, how PvP will play out, etc. Since we aren't aware of what the "end-game" of SWtOR consists of, I think its pretty premature to assume anything. If nothing else Bioware has been made aware of this player concern, and they have plenty of time and money to address it.
I think that largely depends on what the grouping mechanics is like. If playing with another person opens some really fun play possibilities because of how the classes interact,then people will really want to group for that reason. If not then people are only likely to group with friends whom they already knew for a while in real life (unless the game provides some way to meet people while leveling, I suppose).
Fanboism may be at bad levels, but it's still better than Darkfall fanbois lol
I will pre-order for 1 reason. If the game is at least 65% of what I expect BioWare to provide to me as a customer that will be better than playing WoW. If SWG had a community I would play it, but If some other older games I miss had the same community they use to, i would probably still be playing them.
What Everyone Fails to understand is that it's not the game that makes the game fun. It's the people you play with. How is this logic flawless you ask?
Best Example I can Give - Everquest - The game itself was a medium at best, however the community of Everquest was the best out of all the other games I have played. And, I have been playing MMOs for like 11 yrs.
What I expect out of ToR - Fun and fast paced combat. A great story for every class. Beautiful scenery. Rich Lore behind each class which also goes back to the story.
What I hope will one day come out of ToR - I would love to see a housing system like SWG. I would like crafting to be a class all on its own like in swg. (Think about it, the Trader could be a neutral class, republic, or empire. Neutral does not care for either side just wants the $$, rebulic traders only craft for the the replublic and visversa for the empire. That would make for some interesty story possiblities) Plus just having a class that only crafts and has minimal fighting skills if any at all, would be fun. Don't wanna play to beat stuff up all day? It would bring other player types to the game. People that don't really care for combat but love community and crafting. I think Entertainers should be another class put in the game. Would be another Neutral class with a fun story. Check this, you are a slave entertainer and as your story progresses, you get sold several times, get to explore the galaxy and finally some how manage to break free of the crap life you once had and worked your way into a city and make a name for yourself. That would also be a very fun alternative to the mind grulling grind. People can hate on SWG and how it is today , but I am here to tell you the divirsity of the classes in SWG are the best in any other mmorpg. The Only reason SWG died is because Humans do not like change and change scares us for the most part. Though, I never played SWG pre (w/e).
Dang Sorry, got off on a tangent there for a sec. Anywho, I lost my train of thought. So there is my 2 cents lol.
Kick to the Face.
God I don't think Darkfall fanboism will ever be matched by any community. I hope not.
Wasn't Signus that one guy that was basically forced off the Darkfall forums by the rest of the Darkfall fanbots because he was making THEM look bad?
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Good points Rakuji, pretty much my way of thinking too.
Playing with friends and having fun can overcome any game flaws, I stayed in swg for 6 years mainly on the fact my friends were there and we all know the ups and downs swg had in that time frame. I too have been playing mmo's for that length of time and in my time played some dodgy games but again its the people around you that can bring in the element of fun. I don't play SWG anymore but I'm just waiting on some free time for Vets to see how it is.
On a side note: I contacted SOE about vets getting some free time, the reply I got wasn't the usual standard It said "yeah me too, when I find out I'll email you." lol
Also I'm all for housing, I've made a few posts in the official forum and the general impression I got was that a lot of players want it too, so I do think it will be implemented at some point in the game.
Overall I can't wait for SW:TOR to advance to beta stage so we can get some real evidence of how gameplay etc is. *fingers crossed it happens soon*:)
I'm not really surprised. See that with a lot of games on their official forums.
The one thing that is a bit stunning to me are the amount that seem to want to turn this into a single player game.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
Ahhhhh....
I'm not talking about what you've read, and what or how you have taken it, but maybe you can fill us in how you know that there isnt an incentive to group, or that it only has a few social or PvP hubs?
Have you spent hours playing the game with diverse others?
Are you, or were you a member of the either Bioware/Lucas Arts/EA group who has had some involvement and input into the design of the game?
If the answer to both is "no", then I think we all know exactly the credibility your opinion has, and yes, it's opinion, not fact.
Look, Bioware has touted what they think is going to make their game different, and that's the whole story bit. They havent chosen to share how that impacts the whole world, or the traditional MMO world. You can hazzard a guess that it means there isnt one, and you might be proven right. Or you could think that they are pitching what makes 'em different, and not the same, and between now and release, we'll end up getting a lot more details about some of those traditional MMO hallmarks. Look at it this way, the Sept. Pax video with a flashpoint sequence; why did Bioware show that off with two players, instead of a player and a companion? Are companions not done? Are there events you cant use companions for? If you have another real player in group does that prohibit the use of companions? It's really a rhetorical question, simply becase there isnt info that points either way.
Bottom line, there isnt enough info out there to draw an opinion either way. You are certainly entitled to have one, but dont foolishly pretend it is fact, and dont for a second think that a differing point of view might not be equally valid.
I'm definitely a fan, but I've got reservations as well, but there just isnt enough known about the game yet for me to form any kind of well supported opinion. Yes, it is a large part of that not knowing that is cause for the reservations I do have.
I'm not really surprised. See that with a lot of games on their official forums.
The one thing that is a bit stunning to me are the amount that seem to want to turn this into a single player game.
Kotor / Kotor 2 / Jade Empire / Mass effect / Dargon Age are all excellant to great single player RPGs. Most Bioware fans come from the backround of having enjoyed the great stories that these single player rpgs told. The majority of Bioware fans are most likely not MMO fans. So the fact that these folks want something that they enjoyed in the past is a surprise to you?
Considering it's supposed to be an mmorpg, yes I find it a bit surprising. I'm a fan of Bioware games too that doesn't mean I want the same gameplay from a game like Dragon Age in TOR.
Regardless of whether they're mmo fans or not, you would think they would be able to differentiate between the two or realize what works for a single player perspective is not necessarily going to work or even be beneficial when talking about an mmorpg.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
Considering it's supposed to be an mmorpg, yes I find it a bit surprising. I'm a fan of Bioware games too that doesn't mean I want the same gameplay from a game like Dragon Age in TOR.
Regardless of whether they're mmo fans or not, you would think they would be able to differentiate between the two or realize what works for a single player perspective is not necessarily going to work or even be beneficial when talking about an mmorpg.
It isn't the same as Dragon Age though. Yes, you can solo your personal storyline, but you can also group up for it (and it seems like the encounters scale with people). In a group one individual doesn't control the conversation, even if that person initiated talks (unlike NWN for instance). Instead they have a group dialogue system so everyone participates.
So, it's a story of your making if you want, but quite easily one of the making of you and your friends and those friends you meet online. Pretty cool stuff, I think. Basically, it is making it so that you and others playing get MEANINGFUL decisions to make during quests. How can anyone argue that's a bad thing? MMOs have been severely lacking meaningful choices in this are for a long time. I want quests where I get to make decisions. I want quests where those decisions have consequences and matter for more than an instant. I want quests where my friends and I can all make such decisions. TOR does all of this.
This isn't a single-player story game, it's a massively multi-player story game.
Story driven could mean a lot of things. It could be a system like LOTRO where you have a epic story thread you work on, but there are regular quests/instances all along the way. Just because they say stroy driven, and they made dragon age and KOTOR does not mean this game will be the same as those. I know how important it is to keep the panic and the doomsaying rolling, but can we please find other things to assume and therefore hate this game about?
I'm sure if you guys try you can find something other than the fact it will be story driven to infer all kinds of crazy stuff that will mean this game is a train wreck. I have faith in you.
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I was using that as an example not saying that is what Bioware is intending nor did I complain about how Bioware is handling things. I'm talking about some of the posters on those forums that want things such as no set group or raid content or the option to solo everything in the game and never group with anyone yet feel they should aslo be able to have the exact same items and go through the exact same content as those that do a raid. Not to mention some other jewels some want incorporated to essentially make it a single player game with optional co-op if you want rather than an mmorpg.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
So true. I asked a question about the cover system saying that the system could possibly be an "instant win" button because it might give you too much of a distinct advantage. Ofcourse the fanbois got on my case about it but I thought it was a legit question considering nobody has yet to try the new "cover system" out yet. If this is any indication how the community will behave then I'm afraid the community will be as bad as WoW. I just hope I get in a guild with good mature fun people to play with.
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I was using that as an example not saying that is what Bioware is intending nor did I complain about how Bioware is handling things. I'm talking about some of the posters on those forums that want things such as no set group or raid content so they option to solo everything in the game and never group with anyone yet feel they should aslo be able to have the exact same items and go through the exact same content as those that do a raid. Not to mention some other jewels some want to essentially make it a single player game with optional co-op if you want rather than an mmorpg.
My apologies. I'm trying to filter out most of the stupid fighting. I'm not sure you should take such talk seriously. All of it that I have seen has been in response to people coming across as trolling the game. People get overly defensive in response to that. I agree that IF it was just Dragonage with some group content, it would not be worth a subscription fee...that's just Diablo with some better story telling (roughly speaking). Thankfully the game won't be that...and I don't think there's much of anyone that would want it that way.
I'd imagine they'd balance it. Probably it is because the Smuggler has crappy defenses, so he needs cover to make up. I doubt it will be OP at all. Seems like an obvious thing to look at from a balance perspective. That said, we won't really know how the implementation plays out until we get some idea of how beta is progressing (and it hasn't started yet, from what I know). The game is a while from release. If it was 2 months away and we knew this little, then I wouldn't buy it...but it looks like it is more like 10 months or more.