I doubt 10-20 years till these are mainstream. There already installed on most high end laptops for every purpose. The price difference you are paying is simply for the security of never having a platter crash. You can achieve the similiar enough result with conventional harddrives and a simple RAID 0 setup. At this point you are going to see no game improvement..
Actually, a big reason you see them on laptops is that if they are dropped, the SSD won't get screwed up as easily as a platter. But since most people don't drop their desktops, platters are still more common because SSD's aren't worth the price yet. The performance increase would hardly be noticeable. Then again, half the reasoning behind such purchases is bragging rights, not a logical assessment of performance vs cost.
Dunki: Am i the only one who picked up the fact that u cant run buy or run DDR 3 @ 8 gig. Not to sound like a troll but if your dropping this much money on a rig you need to do your research. That or your blowing smoke..... 3 6 or 12
Actually my friend, you are wrong. The P55 chipset only supports dual-channel DDR3, which means it would increase in intervals of two. Try doing YOUR research.
That is correct, most motherboards go up by intervals of 2 when a dual channel motherboard
My system (AMD3 system) supports 8Gig of DDR3.
I think you are thinking of Vista/win7 32bit operating system that does not support more than 4 gig. If you run windows7 or Vista 64bit then your computer can support more than 4 gig with the right motherboard.
@Dunki I'd like to honestly weigh your opinion against others, but in your first post you gave me false information, so I don't know if I should trust any of your suggestions.
Fair enough, although i speak from exp. of owning 2 Gskill falcon 2's. Which newegg doesnt seem to have a link for anymore. I was a huge fan of running raptors in raid 0 stripe to get any and ever edge i could in fps games and even mmo's to an extent. My problem is i just have no luck running that setup with no issues for more then 8-10 months. I made the switch to run a dedicated OS install and a dedicated disk to install games on. Cut temp down in my case, no issues for reliability, small boost in boot time, and small noticeable boost in game load times before others in Vent are in with both FPS map loads and instance loads in mmo's. No noticeable FPS boost in games by naked eye, doesnt mean its not their i suppose
Dunki: Am i the only one who picked up the fact that u cant run buy or run DDR 3 @ 8 gig. Not to sound like a troll but if your dropping this much money on a rig you need to do your research. That or your blowing smoke..... 3 6 or 12
Actually my friend, you are wrong. The P55 chipset only supports dual-channel DDR3, which means it would increase in intervals of two. Try doing YOUR research.
That is correct, most motherboards go up by intervals of 2 when a dual channel motherboard
My system (AMD3 system) supports 8Gig of DDR3.
I think you are thinking of Vista/win7 32bit operating system that does not support more than 4 gig. If you run windows7 or Vista 64bit then your computer can support more than 4 gig with the right motherboard.
Just cleaned my facts up on toms hardware. I do stand corrected, although not sure its the "fastest" option. DEF looks like the moder friendly setup though.
@Dunki I'd like to honestly weigh your opinion against others, but in your first post you gave me false information, so I don't know if I should trust any of your suggestions.
Fair enough, although i speak from exp. of owning 2 Gskill falcon 2's. Which newegg doesnt seem to have a link for anymore. I was a huge fan of running raptors in raid 0 stripe to get any and ever edge i could in fps games and even mmo's to an extent. My problem is i just have no luck running that setup with no issues for more then 8-10 months. I made the switch to run a dedicated OS install and a dedicated disk to install games on. Cut temp down in my case, no issues for reliability, small boost in boot time, and small noticeable boost in game load times before others in Vent are in with both FPS map loads and instance loads in mmo's. No noticeable FPS boost in games by naked eye, doesnt mean its not their i suppose
I'm sorry, I forgot to indicate that I was just kidding. If you look at that reply now, it is shown that I meant it as a joke and nothing more.
I doubt 10-20 years till these are mainstream. There already installed on most high end laptops for every purpose. The price difference you are paying is simply for the security of never having a platter crash. You can achieve the similiar enough result with conventional harddrives and a simple RAID 0 setup. At this point you are going to see no game improvement..
Actually, a big reason you see them on laptops is that if they are dropped, the SSD won't get screwed up as easily as a platter. But since most people don't drop their desktops, platters are still more common because SSD's aren't worth the price yet. The performance increase would hardly be noticeable. Then again, half the reasoning behind such purchases is bragging rights, not a logical assessment of performance vs cost.
Well, once the price stops dropping a little more they will be not only be replacing Laptop Hard Drives, but server Hard Drives as well. Because, a small server runs upwards of 5-10 10k RPM disk drives and the price of replacing them gets pretty expensive. You also have to deal with huge heat reduction costs of running 10k+ disks and then there is power and everyone is going "green".
Given that, I'm pretty sure I read somewhere once that servers and industrial computers account for the largest percentage of hardware annual gross. So, that will push the research on them much farther.
I mean, look at Plasma and LCD. Who the hell uses that anymore? Or DVD and VCR? VCRs and CRTs seemed to get replaced overnight. There isn't a single piece of the computer hardware that hasn't been completely redesigned in the past 20yrs, besides the Disk Drive. It's been a huge bottleneck for a long time.
There are other reasons why SSD are not just a flat out "superior upgrade" to platters. Besides the limited lifetime read/write (don't know what the actual average is yet to say if its longer or shorter than what a mechanical drive would take to fail) from what I've heard SSD's efficiency falls off as you run out of space. While this is true of platters to an extent, from what I've bee hearing its a considerable percentage of the drive that must still be free to keep the considerable speed boost.
Basically what I'm just trying to get at is, its not as cut an dry as "SSD is the bestest!"
There are other reasons why SSD are not just a flat out "superior upgrade" to platters. Besides the limited lifetime read/write (don't know what the actual average is yet to say if its longer or shorter than what a mechanical drive would take to fail) from what I've heard SSD's efficiency falls off as you run out of space. While this is true of platters to an extent, from what I've bee hearing its a considerable percentage of the drive that must still be free to keep the considerable speed boost. Basically what I'm just trying to get at is, its not as cut an dry as "SSD is the bestest!"
I heard that, so I asked my prof that and he laughed, then proved why it didn't make any sense. I can't remember exactly how he proved it, but I think I am going to trust a PhD in Computer Science over a random webpage any day. lol
AmazingAveryAge of Conan AdvocateMemberUncommonPosts: 7,188
Originally posted by TheHatter
Originally posted by Kordesh
There are other reasons why SSD are not just a flat out "superior upgrade" to platters. Besides the limited lifetime read/write (don't know what the actual average is yet to say if its longer or shorter than what a mechanical drive would take to fail) from what I've heard SSD's efficiency falls off as you run out of space. While this is true of platters to an extent, from what I've bee hearing its a considerable percentage of the drive that must still be free to keep the considerable speed boost. Basically what I'm just trying to get at is, its not as cut an dry as "SSD is the bestest!"
I heard that, so I asked my prof that and he laughed, then proved why it didn't make any sense. I can't remember exactly how he proved it, but I think I am going to trust a PhD in Computer Science over a random webpage any day. lol
Yea I read @ anandtech.com that whilst doing some research before my purchase.
Problem is with AoC the damn size of the game is massive.
I doubt 10-20 years till these are mainstream. There already installed on most high end laptops for every purpose. The price difference you are paying is simply for the security of never having a platter crash. You can achieve the similiar enough result with conventional harddrives and a simple RAID 0 setup. At this point you are going to see no game improvement..
Actually, a big reason you see them on laptops is that if they are dropped, the SSD won't get screwed up as easily as a platter. But since most people don't drop their desktops, platters are still more common because SSD's aren't worth the price yet. The performance increase would hardly be noticeable. Then again, half the reasoning behind such purchases is bragging rights, not a logical assessment of performance vs cost.
Well, once the price stops dropping a little more they will be not only be replacing Laptop Hard Drives, but server Hard Drives as well. Because, a small server runs upwards of 5-10 10k RPM disk drives and the price of replacing them gets pretty expensive. You also have to deal with huge heat reduction costs of running 10k+ disks and then there is power and everyone is going "green".
Given that, I'm pretty sure I read somewhere once that servers and industrial computers account for the largest percentage of hardware annual gross. So, that will push the research on them much farther.
I mean, look at Plasma and LCD. Who the hell uses that anymore? Or DVD and VCR? VCRs and CRTs seemed to get replaced overnight. There isn't a single piece of the computer hardware that hasn't been completely redesigned in the past 20yrs, besides the Disk Drive. It's been a huge bottleneck for a long time.
Certainly, SSD will eventually be the norm. In fact, I think CCP's cluster uses SSD's because of the huge amount of item related queries in Eve. They recently replaced them with new ones, but I can't remember if it was just to upgrade or if it was because they had reached their read/write limit. I just don't think the technology is quite there to make them worth their additional cost yet. In a few years, this thread would be very short, as we'd all just tell the OP that platters are antiquated.
SSD's do help with minimum FPS which has a small impact on average FPS.
Minimum FPS is usually hit when the game needs to stream new textures off the harddrive because a new area is loading, or some player just showed up, you just ran up to a raid of players, whatever. Whenever you get that drastic stuttering because something new is showing up on screen it's loading textures on the fly off the HD.
An SSD can do this VERY fast because the textures it's loading are stored in many locations inside the giant texture file. This means random reads not sequential reads, SSD excels at this and platter drives fail at this. SSD will increase minimum FPS by 6-8 fps on average during these situations.
This has a slight effect on average FPS because this texture loading doesn't happen that often, and SSD/HD have no other performance consideration during the rest of gameplay (except load times obv).
An SSD is faster than a 10k/15k rpm hard drive and with OCZ Vertex and Agility drives as cheap as they are now it really is a good option to do SSD boot/games, 640GB 7200RPM for data storage/movies. SSD owns platter drives in any multi-tasking situation too.
Originally posted by chrisrobhay2 Would this mostly effect MMOs because of their large populations and increased amounts of players in one area?
Yea, loading textures on the fly happens more often in MMO's than single player games, single player games know what textures it needs for the level during loading and gets most of them loaded but in most MMO's you load textures on the fly as you cross a river into a new area or run into town where a bunch of players are.
Cool, that's what I thought. Thanks for helping me on this. I have decided to go with a Crucial 256GB SSD for games and Windows 7, and a 750GB WD HDD for everything else.
Originally posted by chrisrobhay2 Cool, that's what I thought. Thanks for helping me on this. I have decided to go with a Crucial 256GB SSD for games and Windows 7, and a 750GB WD HDD for everything else.
whoa, SSD's are good but that Crucial 256GB SSD is $700.. I don't think they're that good. Also the Crucial SSD's use Samsung controllers which I believe are a step behind the Indilinx and Intel based SSD's and lack 'Trim'.
I think the best deals right now are the OCZ Agility/Vertex, Intel X-25M/X-25E, and possibly Patriot Torqx, and 256GB ones are really expensive, 60GB-128GB are more reasonable.. remember you only need it for putting your OS, programs and games, shouldn't add up to too much.
I know, I'm just concerned about capacity. I don't want to run out one day. Also, I read two benchmarks on the 256GB Crucial SSD and it was only slower than the extreme performance parts from Intel and OCZ. It was on par and at times even better than their mainstream models.
Comments
Actually, a big reason you see them on laptops is that if they are dropped, the SSD won't get screwed up as easily as a platter. But since most people don't drop their desktops, platters are still more common because SSD's aren't worth the price yet. The performance increase would hardly be noticeable. Then again, half the reasoning behind such purchases is bragging rights, not a logical assessment of performance vs cost.
That is correct, most motherboards go up by intervals of 2 when a dual channel motherboard
My system (AMD3 system) supports 8Gig of DDR3.
I think you are thinking of Vista/win7 32bit operating system that does not support more than 4 gig. If you run windows7 or Vista 64bit then your computer can support more than 4 gig with the right motherboard.
Correct, which is exactly what I intend to do. I will be getting Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit.
Fair enough, although i speak from exp. of owning 2 Gskill falcon 2's. Which newegg doesnt seem to have a link for anymore. I was a huge fan of running raptors in raid 0 stripe to get any and ever edge i could in fps games and even mmo's to an extent. My problem is i just have no luck running that setup with no issues for more then 8-10 months. I made the switch to run a dedicated OS install and a dedicated disk to install games on. Cut temp down in my case, no issues for reliability, small boost in boot time, and small noticeable boost in game load times before others in Vent are in with both FPS map loads and instance loads in mmo's. No noticeable FPS boost in games by naked eye, doesnt mean its not their i suppose
ePeenery.com
That is correct, most motherboards go up by intervals of 2 when a dual channel motherboard
My system (AMD3 system) supports 8Gig of DDR3.
I think you are thinking of Vista/win7 32bit operating system that does not support more than 4 gig. If you run windows7 or Vista 64bit then your computer can support more than 4 gig with the right motherboard.
Just cleaned my facts up on toms hardware. I do stand corrected, although not sure its the "fastest" option. DEF looks like the moder friendly setup though.
ePeenery.com
Fair enough, although i speak from exp. of owning 2 Gskill falcon 2's. Which newegg doesnt seem to have a link for anymore. I was a huge fan of running raptors in raid 0 stripe to get any and ever edge i could in fps games and even mmo's to an extent. My problem is i just have no luck running that setup with no issues for more then 8-10 months. I made the switch to run a dedicated OS install and a dedicated disk to install games on. Cut temp down in my case, no issues for reliability, small boost in boot time, and small noticeable boost in game load times before others in Vent are in with both FPS map loads and instance loads in mmo's. No noticeable FPS boost in games by naked eye, doesnt mean its not their i suppose
I'm sorry, I forgot to indicate that I was just kidding. If you look at that reply now, it is shown that I meant it as a joke and nothing more.
no biggy man lol. Just trying to help a brother out..
UGH on edits to take off the "watch Thread" clickly... blowing up my blackberry lol
ePeenery.com
I know, and I appreciate it.
Yeah, I didn't expect this thread to explode with activity the way it did.
Actually, a big reason you see them on laptops is that if they are dropped, the SSD won't get screwed up as easily as a platter. But since most people don't drop their desktops, platters are still more common because SSD's aren't worth the price yet. The performance increase would hardly be noticeable. Then again, half the reasoning behind such purchases is bragging rights, not a logical assessment of performance vs cost.
Well, once the price stops dropping a little more they will be not only be replacing Laptop Hard Drives, but server Hard Drives as well. Because, a small server runs upwards of 5-10 10k RPM disk drives and the price of replacing them gets pretty expensive. You also have to deal with huge heat reduction costs of running 10k+ disks and then there is power and everyone is going "green".
Given that, I'm pretty sure I read somewhere once that servers and industrial computers account for the largest percentage of hardware annual gross. So, that will push the research on them much farther.
I mean, look at Plasma and LCD. Who the hell uses that anymore? Or DVD and VCR? VCRs and CRTs seemed to get replaced overnight. There isn't a single piece of the computer hardware that hasn't been completely redesigned in the past 20yrs, besides the Disk Drive. It's been a huge bottleneck for a long time.
Like Trading Card Games? Click Here.
There are other reasons why SSD are not just a flat out "superior upgrade" to platters. Besides the limited lifetime read/write (don't know what the actual average is yet to say if its longer or shorter than what a mechanical drive would take to fail) from what I've heard SSD's efficiency falls off as you run out of space. While this is true of platters to an extent, from what I've bee hearing its a considerable percentage of the drive that must still be free to keep the considerable speed boost.
Basically what I'm just trying to get at is, its not as cut an dry as "SSD is the bestest!"
Bans a perma, but so are sigs in necro posts.
EAT ME MMORPG.com!
I heard that, so I asked my prof that and he laughed, then proved why it didn't make any sense. I can't remember exactly how he proved it, but I think I am going to trust a PhD in Computer Science over a random webpage any day. lol
Like Trading Card Games? Click Here.
I heard that, so I asked my prof that and he laughed, then proved why it didn't make any sense. I can't remember exactly how he proved it, but I think I am going to trust a PhD in Computer Science over a random webpage any day. lol
Yea I read @ anandtech.com that whilst doing some research before my purchase.
Problem is with AoC the damn size of the game is massive.
1,500,000 hours is the life span of the OCZ SSD. Thats pretty far beyond what i need in a disk, dont think life span or read write is an issue.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227393
ePeenery.com
Hey now, i just bought a 50 inch plasma. 120 herts ftw w/o paying for the new lcd high markup on the new 120 ones...
ePeenery.com
Does anyone know how this SSD is:
Crucial 128GB SSD - $400.00 -
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820148319Actually, a big reason you see them on laptops is that if they are dropped, the SSD won't get screwed up as easily as a platter. But since most people don't drop their desktops, platters are still more common because SSD's aren't worth the price yet. The performance increase would hardly be noticeable. Then again, half the reasoning behind such purchases is bragging rights, not a logical assessment of performance vs cost.
Well, once the price stops dropping a little more they will be not only be replacing Laptop Hard Drives, but server Hard Drives as well. Because, a small server runs upwards of 5-10 10k RPM disk drives and the price of replacing them gets pretty expensive. You also have to deal with huge heat reduction costs of running 10k+ disks and then there is power and everyone is going "green".
Given that, I'm pretty sure I read somewhere once that servers and industrial computers account for the largest percentage of hardware annual gross. So, that will push the research on them much farther.
I mean, look at Plasma and LCD. Who the hell uses that anymore? Or DVD and VCR? VCRs and CRTs seemed to get replaced overnight. There isn't a single piece of the computer hardware that hasn't been completely redesigned in the past 20yrs, besides the Disk Drive. It's been a huge bottleneck for a long time.
Certainly, SSD will eventually be the norm. In fact, I think CCP's cluster uses SSD's because of the huge amount of item related queries in Eve. They recently replaced them with new ones, but I can't remember if it was just to upgrade or if it was because they had reached their read/write limit. I just don't think the technology is quite there to make them worth their additional cost yet. In a few years, this thread would be very short, as we'd all just tell the OP that platters are antiquated.
Yeah, lol.
SSD's do help with minimum FPS which has a small impact on average FPS.
Minimum FPS is usually hit when the game needs to stream new textures off the harddrive because a new area is loading, or some player just showed up, you just ran up to a raid of players, whatever. Whenever you get that drastic stuttering because something new is showing up on screen it's loading textures on the fly off the HD.
An SSD can do this VERY fast because the textures it's loading are stored in many locations inside the giant texture file. This means random reads not sequential reads, SSD excels at this and platter drives fail at this. SSD will increase minimum FPS by 6-8 fps on average during these situations.
This has a slight effect on average FPS because this texture loading doesn't happen that often, and SSD/HD have no other performance consideration during the rest of gameplay (except load times obv).
An SSD is faster than a 10k/15k rpm hard drive and with OCZ Vertex and Agility drives as cheap as they are now it really is a good option to do SSD boot/games, 640GB 7200RPM for data storage/movies. SSD owns platter drives in any multi-tasking situation too.
Would this mostly effect MMOs because of their large populations and increased amounts of players in one area?
Yea, loading textures on the fly happens more often in MMO's than single player games, single player games know what textures it needs for the level during loading and gets most of them loaded but in most MMO's you load textures on the fly as you cross a river into a new area or run into town where a bunch of players are.
Cool, that's what I thought. Thanks for helping me on this. I have decided to go with a Crucial 256GB SSD for games and Windows 7, and a 750GB WD HDD for everything else.
Another thing I was wondering is do 10K/15K HDDs have a shorter lifespan than 7.2K HDDs?
whoa, SSD's are good but that Crucial 256GB SSD is $700.. I don't think they're that good. Also the Crucial SSD's use Samsung controllers which I believe are a step behind the Indilinx and Intel based SSD's and lack 'Trim'.
I think the best deals right now are the OCZ Agility/Vertex, Intel X-25M/X-25E, and possibly Patriot Torqx, and 256GB ones are really expensive, 60GB-128GB are more reasonable.. remember you only need it for putting your OS, programs and games, shouldn't add up to too much.
I know, I'm just concerned about capacity. I don't want to run out one day. Also, I read two benchmarks on the 256GB Crucial SSD and it was only slower than the extreme performance parts from Intel and OCZ. It was on par and at times even better than their mainstream models.