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When I think of the Universe.
Toquio3
Member Posts: 1,074
I think of all the wonders and mysteries it contains, the scientific discoveries about its internal "engines" and, above all, what we still dont know.
What I know about EVE is that you interact with others via economy, combat, politics, etc, but in a game that seems to be all about the universe, I never really saw anything in EVE that would captivate me, in regards to my view of what the Universe is.
I still remember Zero Punctuation's review of EVE. Comic effects aside, he said something that really stuck with me. EVE managed to take the mysteries the Universe has and made it boring. Mining, buying, selling and fighting. The Universe is one of my, if not my favourite, interest in life. I wish EVE had a different approach on its main theme.
Unlike most EVE haters, although I deeply dislike EVE, I cant help but admire the game (from a safe distance 
). But this is it. This is my one thing when it comes to EVE.
Comments? Thoughts? keep it clean, because I did too, both in intent and presentation 
If you stand VERY still, and close your eyes, after a minute you can actually FEEL the universe revolving around PvP.
Comments
Thanks for your opinion.
My thought is that eve isn't about the universe. It's as much about the universe as any fantasy game is about the geology, flora and fauna.
But if you like the study of celestial bodies, you should sign up for some of the JPL/NASA e-mails. You essentially get e-mail talking about current and future missions. It's very interesting, has links to many photos and it's all "real". I've been getting them for years.
http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/
http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/home/index.html
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Archaeology, Hacking, Hidden complexes, COSMOS agents... wormholes.
Give EVE a try, and definitely ask around for the people who are into exploration. Sounds like you might have a good bit of fun in EVE.
- RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right?
- FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?
Very cool stuff, Sov!
- RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right?
- FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?
Very cool stuff, Sov!
Thanks man. I seriously love this stuff.
I have a secret fantasy (er *cough* one that I can say in public) that is someone will find some evidence of life on other planets before I die.
I'm not talking about intelligent life. I'd even take microbial life (other than the possibiliyt of those "possible" microbial fossils found in that meteorite).
I'm 42 and if fate allows I'll make it into the 90's like most of my family.
so I still have some time left!
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Well if you want to go where no man has gone before it's gotta be EVE. So you want to go into the deepest most lawless regions of space and lay claim to wealth and power? Well your gonna need logistics, manufacturers, Capital fleets, spies, grunts and many more things as well.
And guess what !?! There isn't an NPC for a million light years. Oh yeah and all these people, some helping you and other trying to kill you, they come from all over the world.
You can talk about the glory and beauty of space all you want but it's a lie. Space is brutal and deadly and you have to rely on the people around you for everything. Sure there are glamorized space games with beautiful NPC's that die with honor, but there is only one EVE and it's as close to deep space as your ever likely to come............Keep it clean : )
To me EvE hit it pretty much on the head of how I would imagine an extremely sci fi ish view of humans in the extremely distant future.
You have factions which in themselves are large companies and centralized governments. You have conflicts all over the place, betrayal, war, destruction, corruption and so on. You have an open universe to explore and do what you want and they really seem to be adding to that. Drop some probes, find some anomalies, go through worm holes to random locations, find installations and hack the crap out of them, find ancient abandoned and destroyed structures and ships and salvage pieces of them to bring back and sell.
You also get to chose your own moral path far more than any other mmo. You can chose to hunt pirates, drones and other players who chose to prey on people, or you can live your life in low sec, taking out anyone who comes close to you and looting all their gear.
Of course we have no real idea of how most of space works. For all we know going through a wormhole or blackhole would completely rip our atomic structure to pieces. We know we can never go the speed of light, so things such as warp drives are all but sci fi.
Its hard to see what your idea of space would be, but at least for me EvE has come closer than anyone ever has.
My Guild Wars 2 Vids
Well, let me clarify things a bit. If I played EVE, I would have absolutely zero interest in combat. I would have zero interest in politics or strife of any kind. My interests would be exploration, perhaps crafting, and lore research. Someone mentioned archeology earlier, that sounds intriguing.
How would I fare in the game?
If you stand VERY still, and close your eyes, after a minute you can actually FEEL the universe revolving around PvP.
Maybe the Universe is captivating to you because you're a human living on Earth in 2009. It's still vastly unexplored, mysterious, and wondrous.
Fast forward 21,000 years when the Universe is plagued with war, catastrophe (EVE gate collapse), and a life-or-death power struggle between mega-factions. Suddenly, the Universe doesn't seem so unexplored, mysterious, or wondrous anymore. It's just like Earth, just on an enormous scale. It seems "normal". Sure, there's still room for exploration, just as there is room for exploration on Earth today. And, because of the vastness of space, some things are still worth finding. But, after dealing with space for so long, I think the humans of EVE don't think of the Universe as anything mysterious. Unexplored, yes; wondrous, probably. But they've "tamed" it, for lack of a better term (at least the systems in which the game takes place). They rediscovered space technology, researched asteroids and developed space alloys, and rebounded from the brink of extinction (of the entire human race) to create EVE's setting. What you (or Zero Punctuation) see as "boring" is simply what would realistically happen if we ever colonized space.
Yeah, my argument is a little weird, but so is yours. It sounds like you'd like exploring, which is great. Just keep in mind that EVE is a game; thus, it is limited and it can never amaze you as much as the real Universe can.
They added a new tutorial agent in with Dominion that is specifically for exploration. Through that line it teaches you how to use probes, how to scan and introduces you into what you can do to different areas you find through your space probes. These are things such as hacking, salvaging, mining whatever it is you want. Basically you launch some probes who have mini warp drives on them, you then use them to scan surrounding sectors for what it is you are looking for and then retrieve your drones and head out.
The thing with EvE is you can be what you want. There are people who never leave the stations all day and just craft/buy/sell on the market and do nothing but. You dont ever have to fight if you chose not to, although I wouldnt fly around with my ship without any defense on it because chances are somewhere someone will try to take a bite out of you. Also there are a huge range of ships suited for all types.
Mining ships, stealth ships, fast ships, slow ships, ships you can outfit with tons of drones basically everything is at your disposal and your skills are yours to do with what you want.
My Guild Wars 2 Vids
Yes I guess youre right. But I think I still might give it a try. I dont like the nagging feeling that I might be missing out on something, even if it turns out to be horrible. 14 day trial here I come. After the holidays at least.
If you stand VERY still, and close your eyes, after a minute you can actually FEEL the universe revolving around PvP.
I'm not sure how or why one would go about "learning the internal engines" of make believe planet's gravity relations etc. If they have no effect or RL or game play.
There are people who work on learning the game mechanics (physics of a virtual universe..) There is still a lot of information in game that alliances will not share or players have no recorded (what minerals are on what moon, how to predict Worm Hole's exits (know if there is an empire side hole that will spawn). Finding information through playing is more or less exploration. The way Eve continues to expand horizontally is support for those who want to learn new mechanics and teach/document them.
Eve does seem to fit my view of a future universe however, humans advancing beyond biology by limiting those advances to the rich (immortal pod pilots!), survival of the fittest still rules however because even when humanity has solved all of its problems they fight over the massive amounts of resources they have simply for ego and glory.
The escalation of power from immortals (players) having a surplus production even with all of their destruction is also very interesting. Looking at what fleets players fielded yesterday vs today is amazing. Looking at how smaller relatively expensive for firepower ships (Stealth bombers, HAC's) that aren't the best in straight up fleet vs fleet slug fests end up playing huge roles in wars and occupations is amazing.
Human/computer interfacing allowing for cloned humans to be programmed is an amazing concept.
I enjoy that eve mostly ignores planets, their gravity screws with the much easier 0g mining and manufacturing. Why would anyone mine a planet where the minerals sink to the middle then you have to expend tremendous amount of energy getting it off the planet when you can just grab asteroids which will be more or less hunks of metals that you can simply cut apart?
Yes I guess youre right. But I think I still might give it a try. I dont like the nagging feeling that I might be missing out on something, even if it turns out to be horrible. 14 day trial here I come. After the holidays at least.
Oh yeah, I definitely recommend a trial. However, I don't think 14 days does this game justice. I suggest requesting a 21-day buddy key from the thread here in the EVE forums. It's a win-win; you get 7 more days, and, if you like it and decide to sub, the person you gave you the key gets (I believe) a free month.
As long as we're on the topic of exploration, let me just say that using deep-space probes definitely takes some getting used to. I think it's one of the more complicated aspects of EVE I've encountered so far. Using probes, though, you can find things like hidden ruins, asteroid belts with rare minerals, gas accumulations, or space complexes that may not want to be found (i.e. bring a gun!). I haven't gotten into it much but I'll have to keep at it if I'm going to get the hang of it.
The time spent reading about the game and learning the game > playing it as far as experiencing EVE goes imo. It is a sit wait, plan and talk game. Get a 21 day trial but spend at least a week before hand planning out your skills and reading how the part of the game you like is played.
Also do ALL of the tutorials if only for the money.
EvE is no different from other MMOs in that the contents is STATIC. Exploration is just a name for simple minigame, archeology is just a name for a gathering profession, invention is a name for crafting predetermined blueprints.
CCP really dropped this ball with Wormoholes. They are great addition to the game but all this new "unexplored" space is - static, and lots of it is settled by now.
With Dominion they introduced procedurally generated planets (which are nothing but useless part of backdrop). They did not introduce any procedurally genereated content. And even then there are only some 7 different planets.
There is as much exploration as in say WoW. The core mechanics are not documented well on purpose, there is world you personally have not seen - but there is nothing new to find. Actually there is less than in WoW because the space is empty, everything is basically the same, the easter eggs if any lack those little touches and there are really only two scripts for "raids". If you want something dynamic, there is PvP gankfest - or lagfest - or if you are really lucky some meningless prearenged stuff.
EvE is economy and strategy game set in space. It is good for what it is but the rest is fluff that only looks good on paper and is nothing but boring cooldowns in reality.
Being a non-combatant is not uncommon in Eve.
We have a very significant portion of the player base that enjoys the industrial side of Eve.
PLaying: EvE, Ryzom
Waiting For: Earthrise, Perpetuum
I completely disagree with everything you said.
Other than the easy wormholes (Class 1-3) most Wh space is unsettled. shit even the newb Whs are about 40-50% occupied atm with CCP saying they could easily add more systems to the feature.
The planets have way more than seven different versions and they will server a purpose next expansion with planetary conquest.
Features like hacking may seem like a genreic gathering skill but it leads to much more when you take into consideration the industrial side of it all.
WoW is 100% static where nothing changes, Eve changes everyday and could easily be expanded apon proven by the amazing amount of gameplay features housed within Eve online.
Also anyone who calls Eve empty space certainly hasn't actually played Eve.
Honestly, what did you do? Read about eve here and post to troll/bait? Go away WoW fanboi.
PLaying: EvE, Ryzom
Waiting For: Earthrise, Perpetuum
Fact is, the universe is probably more realistically depicted in EVE as opposed to the OP's viewpoint which seems to be heavily influenced by Star Trek. (EVE being low fantasy versionn of Sci-Fi and ST being the high fantasy equivalent of Sci Fi)
It really isn't as mysterious as the OP hopes for, pretty much what we observe around here is about as good as its going to get. There will likely be planets, stars, asteroids and lots off vacuum but outside of that, not a whole heck of much else. (unless we run into extra terrerstrials)
So we'll tackle space like we do now on Earth, we'll expand, mine, colonize, exploit and fight over it.
There will be exploration, and we'll find useful things that will probably be mostly gathering focused.
Sihps will not fly like they are in an atmosphere, they'll tend to skid and slide more like they do in EVE (which still takes huge liberties with physics to provide the combat model it has)
Unfortunately, the universe isn't as interesting as the OP is hoping, (not to say its not interesting as it is) there just won't be a fantasy aspect to space exploration, it will remain firmly grounded (and limited by) physics.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
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Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
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"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I think I know what you mean, and in a way, I agree - although for me the "MMO" part of EvE as a "space MMO" has more than enough to keep me interested. In essence, what you are talking about is envirnmental variety, which EvE severely lacks. W-space is a small step in the right direction, but I can think of other possibilities - for instance, when we're near planets and suns, there should be a gravity well (to name but one simple concept).
I believe at the end of the day, this comes down to resources and philosophy. CCP being a small company have limited resources to implement the kind of details your vision implies - although if they could I'm sure that they would. As it is, they've deliberately gone the opposite way and invested resources in making their universe BIG. The core truth about EvE is that the players are the game, and CCP have provided the maximum scope for the implementation of this philosophy.
Give me liberty or give me lasers
Oh my, the tunnel vision lunatics, they see WoW and they get all upset as if there wes not whole tradition in that line and as if WoW was threating to gank their ride. Lets see the babble line by line.
He completely disagrees that EvE is economy and strategy game and that it is set in space.
He said that wormholes are unsettled because half of them is settled. He says contet is not static because devs can add more static content in expansion.
He sais there are more than 7 versions but he has nothing to back his claim by, except something that is totally irrelevent to how plantes look from space and that is some future plan - for years.
He sais that gathering is more than gathering because mats are used in crafting.
He said that puting axe in hand slot is static while putting POS in moon slot is not static, because devs can put more static content in future expansion unlike other MMOs that never got new raid dungeon or a new faction grind or new gear tier or new holiday event or new class or new costume or.
Then he tells me how being alone in system with ten clones of sites out of pool of fifty is not empty space because there are spawn points there (i know where to look unlike most that get few if any) .
Promises, lies, rose-tinted goggle, hatred.
EvE is static like every other MMO out there today. They all became too serious to allow player/random content. EvE theoretically could be but the engine architecture is just too old as evidenced by wormhole design - or more recently fleet lags.
Oh my, the tunnel vision lunatics, they see WoW and they get all upset as if there wes not whole tradition in that line and as if WoW was threating to gank their ride. Lets see the babble line by line.
He completely disagrees that EvE is economy and strategy game and that it is set in space.
He said that wormholes are unsettled because half of them is settled. He says contet is not static because devs can add more static content in expansion.
He sais there are more than 7 versions but he has nothing to back his claim by, except something that is totally irrelevent to how plantes look from space and that is some future plan - for years.
He sais that gathering is more than gathering because mats are used in crafting.
He said that puting axe in hand slot is static while putting POS in moon slot is not static, because devs can put more static content in future expansion unlike other MMOs that never got new raid dungeon or a new faction grind or new gear tier or new holiday event or new class or new costume or.
Then he tells me how being alone in system with ten clones of sites out of pool of fifty is not empty space because there are spawn points there (i know where to look unlike most that get few if any) .
Promises, lies, rose-tinted goggle, hatred.
EvE is static like every other MMO out there today. They all became too serious to allow player/random content. EvE theoretically could be but the engine architecture is just too old as evidenced by wormhole design - or more recently fleet lags.
All mmo's are bad so EVE is bad........WTF
If you don't like it don't play it, but please spare us your mind-numbing arguments.
My thoughts on Eve, is it's as big as you choose it to be. Love it or hate it, it's truly a phenomenon among MMO's. While most MMO's have players sharing roughly the same experience, players in Eve can find themselves sharing experiences completely different from one another.
In no other MMO could a person imagine a GOON/BOB scenario unfolding. Not a one...
Eve is not static.
When you go into a zone in WOW do mobs spawn in the same location over and over? yes
IN Eve when you scan out a system do sites spawn in the same location after downtime? no
In WoW do you change anything in the game world? no its always the same even with phasing everything goes back to normal.
In Eve do systems change hands though sov mechanics? can players upgrade space and make their systems unique? yes so its not static.
Can wormholes be settled? cleared? defended? do spawns always appear in the same spots? Wh's arent static either.
even if a Wh has been settled in, in a week you could come back and it could be empty or owned by someone else.
In Eve through player interaction Eve can change. Thats something you can't say for WoW.
Oh and about the planets you said planets are just back drops. then said we only have seven variations. Well your wrong go ahead log into a trial account and fly to every planet in in any three systems and you will see more than seven unique planets.
Also I brought up planetary conquest as a feature that will use the planets and through that will let players change and evolve the mechanic.PLayers will control regions on planets and work with other players in conflict or peace and that will have a direct interaction with Dust later on.
I know you dislike Eve but to call anything in this game static is crazy.
PLaying: EvE, Ryzom
Waiting For: Earthrise, Perpetuum
The physical map is fairly static. The political, military and economic maps are extremely dynamic. Again, this comes down to him wanting more varied environments, including player created environments. Hardly an unworthy wish, in my opinion, but to ignore the huge amount of dynamism that is present does seem to be willfully missing the point.
It will be interesting to see how much in the way of options for the customisation of outposts CCP implements.
Give me liberty or give me lasers
Let me communicate that if you become hooked on the world design of sandpit MMO's every other MMORPG looks and feels...boring.
G-d bless sand pits and skill systems.