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What's the deal with people wanting 20-25 man raiding in this game?
Tonev
Member Posts: 462
I have to say, looking at all the information from the official site, Pax videos and such, wouldn't it be awkward trying to have 20-35 man raiding in this game?
Hell, I see a lot of pre- guilds say we are a hardcore raiding guild with 7 day raiding schedules from 5am-5am anytime so pick your class and apply. Okay let's look at the logic of this, we have a total of 8 classes (which may or may not be able to group together) the most I can see is, possibly 8 mans?
I don't know but it doesn't make sense to me looking at the classes and having a hero, minion or companion system in place (why would I wanna share my loot drops with people, again?).
I just don't think these people are looking out the box and are basing classes developers have pretty much shown us there is no trinity system in place (proven from what we now know).
Inquisitor = ranged dps/healer/ nuker CC (with some melee abilities)
Sith Warrior = Tank dps
Jedi Knight = same as Sith Warrior
Consular = CC/healer/melee
Imperial agent = CC/Nuker/utility class
Smuggler (possibly the same)
Trooper Ranged tank/dps
Bounty Hunter = CC/debuff/Nuker/utility class
I don't know, I'm just trying to make sense out of what people are already putting in guild outlines (we are the best, you should be the best and we will be starting 25 man bull$#*%) and it just doesn't make any sense at all from my stand point right now. I think ToR pre guilds with 25 man raid interests are a waste currently, the way things are set up with classes (probably can get just as much, if not more done with a group of four friends).
Comments
Because they all come from WoW and honestly the less people we get from WoW the better off we are. WoW is all they know and it is so true. They think that every game shoud have 100 man raids and button mashing is good pvp.
Hello you seem to be new to the world of mmos. You see alot of star wars fans play wow. And wow has 20man raids. That's all they know. It's all they do, they raid and raid and raid and raid for more gear whilst raiding over and over again to get to the next level of raid gear. And once that's done you might ask what do they do? Well nothing maybe level an alt and wait for the next raid. It's all about the gear for these wow players.
WoW is not the Devil. I made friends with some very excellent players in WoW. I would be happy to play any MMO with them.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
WoW is not the Devil. I made friends with some very excellent players in WoW. I would be happy to play any MMO with them.
Good for you MMO and that is your opinion which would serve better in a different topic then this one.
The issue at hand is this, the biggest audience from any MMo as the previous poster put up is WOW is the game that people can relate to because, it is the only one they have known. Those of us that have took the time to learn other MMOs as well as played WOW know that it is not the end all be all of MMOs.
Honestly, I hope the max raid that is in this game is possibly 8 and hope that Bioware with their Darkside light side point gain system, genuinely makes it where people can customize their avatar's powers. I think this would make it possible to have the most "8" raiding group numbers without it being boring, but I can see issues also with that.
On a note, how Heroic is it to have Sith/Imperial and Jedi/Republic forces holding hands and singing Ewok songs while they battle some uber mob that threatens the galxy that is far,...far away?/sarcasm off
You know what, now that I think of it, raiding could be the worst thing to put in this game, I think there should be some high end content (Death Watch Bunker, Night sisters strong hold, the Village as examples) that supports the higher end level but should be dungeons with missions like SWG had (they actually had that formula right)!
I'm not sure the game is being designed to support that type of content but anything could change I suppose. I think a lot of the call for this type of content comes from those that really enjoy dungeon and PvE content a la WoW type raiding. Unfortunately that's what sells boxes it seems but I really wouldn't mind more 5 to 10 man type PvE content rather than the super large raid type encounters. Only time will tell I suppose!
I hope they don't include 20+ people raids outside of pvp. Keep the pve raids if any to no more than 2 groups.
Agree 100%. PvE raids don't need to be more than 10 people, imo. They can really ramp up the difficulty for those 10 player raids to give people the elite status they want without it involving 25-40 players.
Now PvP I'm the complete opposite, the more the merrier (yay Christmas puns). PvP is just way more fun with tons of people fighting.
Agree 100%. PvE raids don't need to be more than 10 people, imo. They can really ramp up the difficulty for those 10 player raids to give people the elite status they want without it involving 25-40 players.
Now PvP I'm the complete opposite, the more the merrier (yay Christmas puns). PvP is just way more fun with tons of people fighting.
I agree with this also, PvP "Yes" PvE "NO".
They are people that are coming from WoW where thats normal. They'll grow up, give them time.
I would like to point out that with companions you'll be able to have 40-50 man raids without all the hassle
Yeah but how easy would endgame raiding be if compainions can fill the roll of a real player. That would just be more dumbed down content for the posers, imo. Good, difficult 10 man raids would be the way to go. I really hope BioWare ramps up the endgame difficulty for SWTOR to get rid of the hangers on that get carried through everything.
Yeah but how easy would endgame raiding be if compainions can fill the roll of a real player. That would just be more dumbed down content for the posers, imo. Good, difficult 10 man raids would be the way to go. I really hope BioWare ramps up the endgame difficulty for SWTOR to get rid of the hangers on that get carried through everything.
BioWare has stated that companions will not be a absolute substitute for actual players. Think about any class with a pet, it's nothing different then that. Players will make the difference. I also don't believe BioWare is going to have set instances (10 man 25 etc) it will probably use scaling.
i've never tried WoW, but given that this game is being designed using WoW as it's "model of success", it would only make sense that it has similar gameplay types.
also, WoW didn't invent multi-group encounters. i never really liked raiding in MMOs until i started playing EQ2, in EQ2 the raids are very challenging and fun. And they are based on having player skill and working together, not on who has the most time to play. It's a great way to add challenge to the PvE aspect of the game that is sorely lacking in so many MMOs.
hopefully TOR will have some challenging content that requires skill and organization to beat.
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO
Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall
Currently Playing: ESO
Because we all know that MMO companies pay more attention to those 'hardcore' individuals who make up a small percentage of their overall playerbase and hog more bandwidth due to longer play sessions. Oh and lets not forget that they are 'super elite' time wasters and therefore deserve recognition in game and out to their ability to sit behind a screen press buttons for 8+ hours a day...
/sarcasmoff
cheers!
MMO Vet since AOL Neverwinter Nights circa 1992. My MMO beat up your MMO. =S
Planning a game around people who play 30 minutes a day and can't muster the complexity of co-operating with a few others for a kill is equally fail. There can and should be a middle-ground.
As I mentioned I personally think EQ2's endgame is a great model. Even the hardest mob takes at most 30 minutes to kill. This has resulted in many people like myself who were always deterred from the end-game by the massive time commitments to embrace and participate. And there are enough mobs to spend 8 hours on if one wanted, yet it can all be done in bite-size chunks for those of us that don't have that kind of time. Ultimately it's about skill and not about who plays the most. Although, for those that play "hardcore" there are a few higher rank mobs that I'll never get to kill. But that's fine, I choose not to invest the time to do those, so I am ok not having the rewards from them. I never understood this point of view of "i don't like doing this, so others shouldn't be able to either"
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO
Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall
Currently Playing: ESO
this game isnt being made using WoW as a model. Never utter this disgusting blasphemy again. on topic now, ive never heard anything about people wanting these gigantic raids. is it on the official forums or something?
If there are 20-25 man raids, I want them to be epic. I don't want 25 people poking at a 100-story tall mega-robot that shoots exploding rainbows at your face. I want 25 people going up against dozens (hundreds?) of enemy mobs. Why?
There could be a mix of the traditional tank-n-spank raid and the "epic" one. I hope so. It's Star Wars, and wars are fought by many people at once.
I know it doesn't really relate to the OP, but I'm sure Bioware will be revealing their end-game PvE pretty soon (they still need to reveal more crafting and PvP details, too).
So ... elite equals twenty players playing together? Just clarifying..... You have some fun ridiculous exaggerations in your post though. You sounds like a child throwing a fit. Does it bother you someone can enjoy a challenge and coming together with others to enjoy a game? It must for you to throw out this ridiculous garbage or you have never even played in a raid before. Most games including WoW are very casual. Most everyone I know that raid maybe play three days a week at a sitting of a 2- 3 hours. And that is it, there is no game that requires you to play as long as you make out.
People that are jealous of others spewing out these ridiculous garbage need to actually try to play in a raid once before. I for one don't care if they make a MMO for solo players which seems silly to me but doesn't matter to me. I don't have to play it. I will play one I do like.
who got principles, when there are phat lewts to be digged out of the mobs ?
and iirc wow have very few classes as well...now if Id go try ToR would hope they make a more classic mmo...but tbh doubt it. sounds much like the single line MMO type to me. with the very little info Ive read so far. but be great if some bigger fan of the SWG: ToR can flame me n point to some threads that make one think its deep in any way.
read so far....single player game with optional group instances at start of the game....the whole idea that you get your "own" story at start makes it sound like they dont know if its a MMO or single player game they want to make (and yes read that the single player part should be about 20% of the game or so in total)
just does sound like an "WoWified" SWG to me...
this game isnt being made using WoW as a model. Never utter this disgusting blasphemy again. on topic now, ive never heard anything about people wanting these gigantic raids. is it on the official forums or something?
it is according to Bioware. they said as much in one of the earlier interviews (at E3 a year or two ago i think). that was basically when i largely stopped following the game. it's not my opinion or a dig at the game, it's merely what Bioware has said.
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO
Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall
Currently Playing: ESO
this game isnt being made using WoW as a model. Never utter this disgusting blasphemy again. on topic now, ive never heard anything about people wanting these gigantic raids. is it on the official forums or something?
it is according to Bioware. they said as much in one of the earlier interviews (at E3 a year or two ago i think). that was basically when i largely stopped following the game. it's not my opinion or a dig at the game, it's merely what Bioware has said.
Yea and I also read that Bioware is not pulling any punches with this one, it's just gonna be a pretty standard MMO, nothing innovative about it...but, I guess as long as it works and it's polished (which is Bioware's biggest focus for the game), then I guess it wont be bad...
PLAYING: NOTHING!!!
PLAYED:FFXI, LotRO, AoC, WAR, DDO, Megaten, Wurm, Rohan, Mabinogi, RoM
WAITING FOR: Dust 514
Agree 100%. PvE raids don't need to be more than 10 people, imo. They can really ramp up the difficulty for those 10 player raids to give people the elite status they want without it involving 25-40 players.
Now PvP I'm the complete opposite, the more the merrier (yay Christmas puns). PvP is just way more fun with tons of people fighting.
I agree with this also, PvP "Yes" PvE "NO".
I also agree with this. PvP "Yes" PvE "NO".
THE Rooster Nash
this game isnt being made using WoW as a model. Never utter this disgusting blasphemy again. on topic now, ive never heard anything about people wanting these gigantic raids. is it on the official forums or something?
it is according to Bioware. they said as much in one of the earlier interviews (at E3 a year or two ago i think). that was basically when i largely stopped following the game. it's not my opinion or a dig at the game, it's merely what Bioware has said.
That's a misquote. They're taking to a similar formula, but not going the same route entirely. That's why (educated speculation) they chose to go with the "stylistic realism" effect of characters. That's also why they'll probably be compatible with dx9. Another educated guess. But, being that there isn't really alot going on in the way of dx10+, it doesn't take much education to figure out really.
Honestly, though, I've been disappointed since finding out about the final two classes. It is a mistake on their part, in my humble opinion, to provide two force-using classes per faction when there are only 4 classes per faction to speak of. But, I still look forward to the game. And I'm way off subject too lol.
THE Rooster Nash
this game isnt being made using WoW as a model. Never utter this disgusting blasphemy again. on topic now, ive never heard anything about people wanting these gigantic raids. is it on the official forums or something?
it is according to Bioware. they said as much in one of the earlier interviews (at E3 a year or two ago i think). that was basically when i largely stopped following the game. it's not my opinion or a dig at the game, it's merely what Bioware has said.
That's a misquote. They're taking to a similar formula, but not going the same route entirely. That's why (educated speculation) they chose to go with the "stylistic realism" effect of characters. That's also why they'll probably be compatible with dx9. Another educated guess. But, being that there isn't really alot going on in the way of dx10+, it doesn't take much education to figure out really.
Honestly, though, I've been disappointed since finding out about the final two classes. It is a mistake on their part, in my humble opinion, to provide two force-using classes per faction when there are only 4 classes per faction to speak of. But, I still look forward to the game. And I'm way off subject too lol.
Yes, there is 4 classes per say rooster but, currently to what I have gathered in info based on 2 paths each and a light side/dark side point gain to further character skills, there is a possibility of 16 totally different played class specs (maybe more).
When the game info starts rolling out we will see what happens, Bioware is putting forth full effort in this though so, hopefully the won't drop the ball.
Planning a game around people who play 30 minutes a day and can't muster the complexity of co-operating with a few others for a kill is equally fail. There can and should be a middle-ground.
As I mentioned I personally think EQ2's endgame is a great model. Even the hardest mob takes at most 30 minutes to kill. This has resulted in many people like myself who were always deterred from the end-game by the massive time commitments to embrace and participate. And there are enough mobs to spend 8 hours on if one wanted, yet it can all be done in bite-size chunks for those of us that don't have that kind of time. Ultimately it's about skill and not about who plays the most. Although, for those that play "hardcore" there are a few higher rank mobs that I'll never get to kill. But that's fine, I choose not to invest the time to do those, so I am ok not having the rewards from them. I never understood this point of view of "i don't like doing this, so others shouldn't be able to either"
Yeah, I'm thinking the same thing while reading these threads. It's like they're reading from some MMO Gamer's 10 Commandments or something, as though it's their game and they're making the rules. "Thou shalt not have raids larger than 10-man, for to do so is evil".
Well... I dunno... I learned when I was oh geeze... really young, pre-school at least, that it's polite to share.
What's wrong with them having 20+ raids for those who enjoy that, and also having smaller 10 man raids for those who enjoy those... and maybe - if we want to *really* get crazy - some tougher encounters for solo or smaller groups as well? You know... so there's something for everyone?
Oh no. Can't have that, now can we? Let me see if I've gotten the attitude down accurately from reading MMO forums for so long: "Well if there are 20 man raids, and I don't like 20 man raids, then I won't do them, which means I'm being cheated out of content that I can't do". Yeah that looks about right.
Well, boo-freaking-hoo. You *can* do the content... You *choose* not to. There's a difference. People who do enjoy larger raids should not be denied them because you don't like them. No more so than people who like smaller raids shouldn't be denied them because someone else thinks they suck.
Why are there so many people who feel it has to be *their* way, or it's no good? I mean, the insults are already being hurled here, blaming "those damned WoW players" for something that, from what I can glean from this thread, isn't even official yet. But boy, people are already ramping up the drama over it.
Good grief, people. These aren't *your* games. You don't get to dictate how they *should* be designed. You get to play them (or not) and make suggestions (or not), just like everyone else. Deciding you want to play a game doesn't earn you a seat at the design meetings.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops