This game is destined to fail. The only thing that will keep it afloat is the same thing that is going to kill it- a diehard trekkie geek fanbase. Every player has their own idea of what the perfect game is supposed to be, and every trekkie geek has their own idea of what IS and IS NOT Star Trek. The more they think something IS NOT "Trek" about this game, the more they are going to dislike it, and the more it is going to be a flop (to them, which will cause them to tell others it's a flop, which will cause others to avoid it). As I see it right now, the game is overhyped, and players are getting their expectations WAY too high.
I don't think so. STO is a space SciFi mmo and there's a lot of gamers wanting to play any space SciFi mmo that isn't Eve. I'm not a Star Trek fanatic myself. I liked the original series and some of the movies, but everything else was bubblegum to me. Star Trek is a good lead in for even the non-fan, because love it or hate it, everyone is familiar with it. So we get to play a mmo based on a future we know about. Keeping us, Trekies and non, will come down to game play. Sort of like it does for every game out there.
This game is destined to fail. The only thing that will keep it afloat is the same thing that is going to kill it- a diehard trekkie geek fanbase. Every player has their own idea of what the perfect game is supposed to be, and every trekkie geek has their own idea of what IS and IS NOT Star Trek. The more they think something IS NOT "Trek" about this game, the more they are going to dislike it, and the more it is going to be a flop (to them, which will cause them to tell others it's a flop, which will cause others to avoid it). As I see it right now, the game is overhyped, and players are getting their expectations WAY too high.
This is how I feel exactly. I am very concerned about them really changing the feel of Star Trek. After reading the PvP thread I am very worried.
Bill Shatner plays WoW now so it'll fail....writings on the wall really, they should have stopped development the minute the advert came out with him in he's black curtain/sheet/gi thing on.
This game is destined to fail. The only thing that will keep it afloat is the same thing that is going to kill it- a diehard trekkie geek fanbase. Every player has their own idea of what the perfect game is supposed to be, and every trekkie geek has their own idea of what IS and IS NOT Star Trek. The more they think something IS NOT "Trek" about this game, the more they are going to dislike it, and the more it is going to be a flop (to them, which will cause them to tell others it's a flop, which will cause others to avoid it). As I see it right now, the game is overhyped, and players are getting their expectations WAY too high.
>.0 as far as hype goes these days STO was actually not hyped (dont get confused with anticipated). But cryptic really did not hype the shit out of STO like some other mmos have these days {coudg..W_R}. And of course its going to fail in anyones eyes that sees it as that,hell they games not out yet, and every ones seems to have a crystal ball these days. Just let the damn game come out lol.
This game is destined to fail. The only thing that will keep it afloat is the same thing that is going to kill it- a diehard trekkie geek fanbase. Every player has their own idea of what the perfect game is supposed to be, and every trekkie geek has their own idea of what IS and IS NOT Star Trek. The more they think something IS NOT "Trek" about this game, the more they are going to dislike it, and the more it is going to be a flop (to them, which will cause them to tell others it's a flop, which will cause others to avoid it). As I see it right now, the game is overhyped, and players are getting their expectations WAY too high.
This is how I feel exactly. I am very concerned about them really changing the feel of Star Trek. After reading the PvP thread I am very worried.
Her is a good pod cast with more endepth look at the Klingons and the pvp hoopla going on.
I'm not concerned about the mechanics of the PvP system. I'm concerned about the lore. In the 300 years of the federation, they have striven for peace. All of a sudden, 50 years after the final movie, the whole galaxy is at war again.
I dont think there was much time when the federation was not in some kind of war or conflct. Space is a big place and the ideals of the Federation of a peaceful civilizations all over is not shared by everyone. Open war is another story, but even you can see examples of this with the Dominion War..
Federation is strong but it does not control the galaxy.
It never ceases to amaze me that so many haters rubbish every new game that comes out; even before they can have possibly played it.
If we all posted that a film was rubbish before we saw it (based on internet rumors) either people would stop listning to this bollocks, or else all the film companies would go bankrup.
Like the orginal poster, this behavour really hacks me off
I predict that it will be a financial success in that the investors will get their money back from box sales and 1-3 month subscriptions. From a gaming point of view, I don't have much hope for it. I don't see the majority of players sticking around for more than 2-3 months. That is just the current MMORPG business model. Box sales + 1-2 months sub fees is all you need to make a little money, so that's all the developers will be paid to work on. Once that's over, they can cut the development team down and let it coast to its death.
And what is the problem with that? Playing a game for 3 months is a pretty decent time. Few single player games would last for more than a week, not to mention 3 months.
From a gaming point of view, playing a game for 3 months, then switching is not a bad deal. You get to experience more games that way.
And what is the problem with that? Playing a game for 3 months is a pretty decent time. Few single player games would last for more than a week, not to mention 3 months. From a gaming point of view, playing a game for 3 months, then switching is not a bad deal. You get to experience more games that way.
I don't want to dabble in MMOs. I want one or two which will keep me entertained for a few years.
I like novels, not short stories.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
It never ceases to amaze me that so many haters rubbish every new game that comes out; even before they can have possibly played it. If we all posted that a film was rubbish before we saw it (based on internet rumors) either people would stop listning to this bollocks, or else all the film companies would go bankrup. Like the orginal poster, this behavour really hacks me off
What gets me is that people just would rather assume that those with complaints about the game must have not played it and they must just be haters.
I will let you in on a secret, a lot of people discussing an MMO on here are in the beta. The only thing we can not do is out right say we are in the beta as that will get your post removed. When that NDA drops I know you will be surprised at how many "Haters' here are actually in the beta and playing.
Originally posted by GrayGhost79 What gets me is that people just would rather assume that those with complaints about the game must have not played it and they must just be haters. I will let you in on a secret, a lot of people discussing an MMO on here are in the beta. The only thing we can not do is out right say we are in the beta as that will get your post removed. When that NDA drops I know you will be surprised at how many "Haters' here are actually in the beta and playing.
Logic has no place in a religious debate.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
It never ceases to amaze me that so many haters rubbish every new game that comes out; even before they can have possibly played it. If we all posted that a film was rubbish before we saw it (based on internet rumors) either people would stop listning to this bollocks, or else all the film companies would go bankrup. Like the orginal poster, this behavour really hacks me off
What gets me is that people just would rather assume that those with complaints about the game must have not played it and they must just be haters.
I will let you in on a secret, a lot of people discussing an MMO on here are in the beta. The only thing we can not do is out right say we are in the beta as that will get your post removed. When that NDA drops I know you will be surprised at how many "Haters' here are actually in the beta and playing.
I will let you in on another secret, not everyone here who has played in beta hate it
It never ceases to amaze me that so many haters rubbish every new game that comes out; even before they can have possibly played it. If we all posted that a film was rubbish before we saw it (based on internet rumors) either people would stop listning to this bollocks, or else all the film companies would go bankrup. Like the orginal poster, this behavour really hacks me off
What gets me is that people just would rather assume that those with complaints about the game must have not played it and they must just be haters.
I will let you in on a secret, a lot of people discussing an MMO on here are in the beta. The only thing we can not do is out right say we are in the beta as that will get your post removed. When that NDA drops I know you will be surprised at how many "Haters' here are actually in the beta and playing.
I will let you in on another secret, not everyone here who has played in beta hate it
Oh I know that lol. That however had nothing to do with noblots post though, so didn't feel any reason to include it. I mean his target was "haters". If someone had said the same but inserted "fanboy" and "love" instead then it would have been called for me to reply about those in beta that enjoy it.
It never ceases to amaze me that so many haters rubbish every new game that comes out; even before they can have possibly played it. If we all posted that a film was rubbish before we saw it (based on internet rumors) either people would stop listning to this bollocks, or else all the film companies would go bankrup. Like the orginal poster, this behavour really hacks me off
What gets me is that people just would rather assume that those with complaints about the game must have not played it and they must just be haters.
I will let you in on a secret, a lot of people discussing an MMO on here are in the beta. The only thing we can not do is out right say we are in the beta as that will get your post removed. When that NDA drops I know you will be surprised at how many "Haters' here are actually in the beta and playing.
Yes, we know you're in beta. At least, that's what we "hear".
The issue, as always, is that there are others in beta as well that really like it. So, again, it's coming down to personal taste, not some "absolute truth" as seen by some beta testers. Who's right?
The difference here is that some beta testers are convinced that their opinion IS absolute truth, and their jihad ensues. The game has failed them (in their minds), so they are going to do everything in their limited power to become an agent of that game's failure. Most of the time, that comes in the form of a negative word-of-mouth campaign.
So I'll ask: since you've already decided you don't like the game and probably won't play it (and if you do, it'll be to up your "street cred"), how long are you going to stalk this and other STO forums, attempting to "counter" those that actually like the game, while spinning anything and everything in as negative a light as possible? One month? Six months? A year or more? Or, can the jihad end only with the demise of STO and Cryptic?
No MMO will satisfy everyone. I thought that was a commonly accepted and understood priciple. Then I came to these forums....
It never ceases to amaze me that so many haters rubbish every new game that comes out; even before they can have possibly played it. If we all posted that a film was rubbish before we saw it (based on internet rumors) either people would stop listning to this bollocks, or else all the film companies would go bankrup. Like the orginal poster, this behavour really hacks me off
What gets me is that people just would rather assume that those with complaints about the game must have not played it and they must just be haters.
I will let you in on a secret, a lot of people discussing an MMO on here are in the beta. The only thing we can not do is out right say we are in the beta as that will get your post removed. When that NDA drops I know you will be surprised at how many "Haters' here are actually in the beta and playing.
I will let you in on another secret, not everyone here who has played in beta hate it
Oh I know that lol. That however had nothing to do with noblots post though, so didn't feel any reason to include it. I mean his target was "haters". If someone had said the same but inserted "fanboy" and "love" instead then it would have been called for me to reply about those in beta that enjoy it.
I'm sure that some of the people who don't like this game are in BETA. But I highly doubt all of them are, considering that many of them have been protesting this game all year long.
Originally posted by ktanner3 I'm sure that some of the people who don't like this game are in BETA. But I highly doubt all of them are, considering that many of them have been protesting this game all year long.
Just for the record, I can assure you that I am not in beta.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
I'm sure that some of the people who don't like this game are in BETA. But I highly doubt all of them are, considering that many of them have been protesting this game all year long.
Never said all of them have played the game before bashing or complaining, that would be as ignorant as the stance that no one bashing or complaining has played the game yet. So I am not sure what your reply had to do with my post lol. Or is this a state the obvious even when it has nothing to do with a post day and no one told me?
My turn... Star Trek Online is based off of the Star Trek IP.
I hope the game will succeed and that it will be amazing. I love the idea of STO game. But I'm just skeptical about cryptics ability to deliver a finished polished game. CO was a disaster and now I'm fearful that they are rushing to get STO out the door. I'm hoping thats all unfounded and they learned a lot of lessons from CO but I think that is the optimist in me...
One thing I'm gonna NOT do is preorder the game. Seems to me that every time I preorder a game it ends up being complete crap. So perhaps that's my karma...
By the standards of the MMO market right now, it will fail. There wasnt ever any question about that. The question, though, is if it will fail for Cryptic. And that is something we cannot discuss without knowing how much money they spent making it, how much it improved Champions Online LTAs, and how much they expect out of the game.
I am sure it ll have a lackluster release with a decline afterwards, just like any smaller MMORPG in the last 5 years. Big ones usually have a stellar release ,followed by a steep decline, though, so I suppose its not that big a difference.
One year from now, few will care.
BUT: That does not mean it failed. If the game cost 20 million to produce, and box sales + a few LTAs + some monthly subs from the start are decent, it made its money back, employed a lot of people for several months or years, and leaves Cryptic in a state to produce a 3rd fast-food MMO. Its perfectly reasonable to produce cheap, limited-lifetime MMOs like CO and, as long as you dont spend too much, or the playerbase starts shunning you, make money off of them for a few months or a year.
In the end, what matters is what you planned for. WAR wouldnt have been a failure if it hadnt been planned and designed for a 700k+ sub number.
STO will have been in development at Cryptic for a good year, maybe two in terms of total cost. That is not a lot of money in the MMO market, and they wont need a 600k+ initial release and 2-3 years of 200k+ to recoup investment and profit a bit too. If they arent stupid and avoid spending more on patches, support and a life team than is absolutely necessary, they ll likely be able to coast on Star Trek fans for a few months, and make some money.
Yeah, as the discerning MMO player, we will most likely consider it a failure, as it ll burn out within weeks. But even if so, some of you guys will have spent money on the box and maybe a month or two, which is what Cryptic probably counts on.
Keep in mind, if you buy a box, and subcribe one month, you gave them the money that they would otherwise have to keep you around 4 months to earn. Players who buy the game, then quickly finish it and are done are better money than those you have to keep making content for just to keep them playing.
By the standards of the MMO market right now, it will fail. There wasnt ever any question about that. The question, though, is if it will fail for Cryptic. And that is something we cannot discuss without knowing how much money they spent making it, how much it improved Champions Online LTAs, and how much they expect out of the game.
By what market standards? If you are referring to WOW, then that means every mmo besides wow has failed and we know thats not the case. We still have MMO's that are running 10 years after their release and still have content being made for them. The term 'Fail" is used way to vaguely in the MMO market now. If we were to look at how the naysayers look at the market today, then all games are "fail" no matter how much of a success they are.
By the standards of the MMO market right now, it will fail. There wasnt ever any question about that. The question, though, is if it will fail for Cryptic. And that is something we cannot discuss without knowing how much money they spent making it, how much it improved Champions Online LTAs, and how much they expect out of the game.
By what market standards? If you are referring to WOW, then that means every mmo besides wow has failed and we know thats not the case. We still have MMO's that are running 10 years after their release and still have content being made for them. The term 'Fail" is used way to vaguely in the MMO market now. If we were to look at how the naysayers look at the market today, then all games are "fail" no matter how much of a success they are.
You got that one right. Some people even call LOTRO a failure even though it is still running with a good subscription base and new content being made for it. Some of these people just need to drop the pretense and admit that they will never be happy until some gaming company gives them their old school sandbox back.
Means 300k + sustained for a normal A-grade title. Maybe a bit more, maybe a bit less.
LotRO may or may not be a failure depending on whether you consider how much money it makes for Turbine (which isnt that much, and they continue to downscale their efforts to further develop it) or how many players in all markets it holds, which makes it a stable niche game.
Successes in the last years have been WoW, LotRO, EVE (which epitomes how success looks like for small MMOs, which STO belongs to: Slow start, neverending but healthy slow growth, no massive crash of sub numbers), with AoC and WAR being major failures, Tabula Rasa as well, and I wouldnt quite rate Champions Online yet, though it certainly did not exceed expecations.
STO, if its cheap, I suppose can be called a success if it manages 200k+ about half a year in and is growing. Which, frankly, I dont think it will, because I also dont think it is created with that goal in mind. STO is a very quickly created barebones game with the Star Trek license as its only pull (how many people would play this game without the license, on gameplay promises alone?).
Player Opinions seem to consider anything under 400k+ a failure, which I dont agree, and which many industry professionals, some of them blogging here, dont agree either. 200-300k sustained with growth is the standard of success for a smalish MMO these days.
Of course, we wont know till we see it. I just have given up on any short-term, license-based "innovative" MMO becoming a sleeper hit.
It never ceases to amaze me that so many haters rubbish every new game that comes out; even before they can have possibly played it. If we all posted that a film was rubbish before we saw it (based on internet rumors) either people would stop listning to this bollocks, or else all the film companies would go bankrup. Like the orginal poster, this behavour really hacks me off
What gets me is that people just would rather assume that those with complaints about the game must have not played it and they must just be haters.
I will let you in on a secret, a lot of people discussing an MMO on here are in the beta. The only thing we can not do is out right say we are in the beta as that will get your post removed. When that NDA drops I know you will be surprised at how many "Haters' here are actually in the beta and playing.
Comments
I don't think so. STO is a space SciFi mmo and there's a lot of gamers wanting to play any space SciFi mmo that isn't Eve. I'm not a Star Trek fanatic myself. I liked the original series and some of the movies, but everything else was bubblegum to me. Star Trek is a good lead in for even the non-fan, because love it or hate it, everyone is familiar with it. So we get to play a mmo based on a future we know about. Keeping us, Trekies and non, will come down to game play. Sort of like it does for every game out there.
This is how I feel exactly. I am very concerned about them really changing the feel of Star Trek. After reading the PvP thread I am very worried.
Bill Shatner plays WoW now so it'll fail....writings on the wall really, they should have stopped development the minute the advert came out with him in he's black curtain/sheet/gi thing on.
Nothing to see here, move along. :P
>.0 as far as hype goes these days STO was actually not hyped (dont get confused with anticipated). But cryptic really did not hype the shit out of STO like some other mmos have these days {coudg..W_R}. And of course its going to fail in anyones eyes that sees it as that,hell they games not out yet, and every ones seems to have a crystal ball these days. Just let the damn game come out lol.
This is how I feel exactly. I am very concerned about them really changing the feel of Star Trek. After reading the PvP thread I am very worried.
Her is a good pod cast with more endepth look at the Klingons and the pvp hoopla going on.
http://www.jupiterbroadcasting.com/?p=1544
I'm not concerned about the mechanics of the PvP system. I'm concerned about the lore. In the 300 years of the federation, they have striven for peace. All of a sudden, 50 years after the final movie, the whole galaxy is at war again.
I dont think there was much time when the federation was not in some kind of war or conflct. Space is a big place and the ideals of the Federation of a peaceful civilizations all over is not shared by everyone. Open war is another story, but even you can see examples of this with the Dominion War..
Federation is strong but it does not control the galaxy.
- ya I'm here
It never ceases to amaze me that so many haters rubbish every new game that comes out; even before they can have possibly played it.
If we all posted that a film was rubbish before we saw it (based on internet rumors) either people would stop listning to this bollocks, or else all the film companies would go bankrup.
Like the orginal poster, this behavour really hacks me off
And what is the problem with that? Playing a game for 3 months is a pretty decent time. Few single player games would last for more than a week, not to mention 3 months.
From a gaming point of view, playing a game for 3 months, then switching is not a bad deal. You get to experience more games that way.
I don't want to dabble in MMOs. I want one or two which will keep me entertained for a few years.
I like novels, not short stories.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
What gets me is that people just would rather assume that those with complaints about the game must have not played it and they must just be haters.
I will let you in on a secret, a lot of people discussing an MMO on here are in the beta. The only thing we can not do is out right say we are in the beta as that will get your post removed. When that NDA drops I know you will be surprised at how many "Haters' here are actually in the beta and playing.
Logic has no place in a religious debate.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
For those who play the game and keep subscribing the game will be a success.
For those who play a little and decide it's not for them it will be a failure.
Pretty much like every other game in existance.
The lesser of two evils is still evil.
There is nothing more dangerous than a true believer.
What gets me is that people just would rather assume that those with complaints about the game must have not played it and they must just be haters.
I will let you in on a secret, a lot of people discussing an MMO on here are in the beta. The only thing we can not do is out right say we are in the beta as that will get your post removed. When that NDA drops I know you will be surprised at how many "Haters' here are actually in the beta and playing.
I will let you in on another secret, not everyone here who has played in beta hate it
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
What gets me is that people just would rather assume that those with complaints about the game must have not played it and they must just be haters.
I will let you in on a secret, a lot of people discussing an MMO on here are in the beta. The only thing we can not do is out right say we are in the beta as that will get your post removed. When that NDA drops I know you will be surprised at how many "Haters' here are actually in the beta and playing.
I will let you in on another secret, not everyone here who has played in beta hate it
Oh I know that lol. That however had nothing to do with noblots post though, so didn't feel any reason to include it. I mean his target was "haters". If someone had said the same but inserted "fanboy" and "love" instead then it would have been called for me to reply about those in beta that enjoy it.
What gets me is that people just would rather assume that those with complaints about the game must have not played it and they must just be haters.
I will let you in on a secret, a lot of people discussing an MMO on here are in the beta. The only thing we can not do is out right say we are in the beta as that will get your post removed. When that NDA drops I know you will be surprised at how many "Haters' here are actually in the beta and playing.
Yes, we know you're in beta. At least, that's what we "hear".
The issue, as always, is that there are others in beta as well that really like it. So, again, it's coming down to personal taste, not some "absolute truth" as seen by some beta testers. Who's right?
The difference here is that some beta testers are convinced that their opinion IS absolute truth, and their jihad ensues. The game has failed them (in their minds), so they are going to do everything in their limited power to become an agent of that game's failure. Most of the time, that comes in the form of a negative word-of-mouth campaign.
So I'll ask: since you've already decided you don't like the game and probably won't play it (and if you do, it'll be to up your "street cred"), how long are you going to stalk this and other STO forums, attempting to "counter" those that actually like the game, while spinning anything and everything in as negative a light as possible? One month? Six months? A year or more? Or, can the jihad end only with the demise of STO and Cryptic?
No MMO will satisfy everyone. I thought that was a commonly accepted and understood priciple. Then I came to these forums....
Hell hath no fury like an MMORPG player scorned.
What gets me is that people just would rather assume that those with complaints about the game must have not played it and they must just be haters.
I will let you in on a secret, a lot of people discussing an MMO on here are in the beta. The only thing we can not do is out right say we are in the beta as that will get your post removed. When that NDA drops I know you will be surprised at how many "Haters' here are actually in the beta and playing.
I will let you in on another secret, not everyone here who has played in beta hate it
Oh I know that lol. That however had nothing to do with noblots post though, so didn't feel any reason to include it. I mean his target was "haters". If someone had said the same but inserted "fanboy" and "love" instead then it would have been called for me to reply about those in beta that enjoy it.
I'm sure that some of the people who don't like this game are in BETA. But I highly doubt all of them are, considering that many of them have been protesting this game all year long.
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
Just for the record, I can assure you that I am not in beta.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Never said all of them have played the game before bashing or complaining, that would be as ignorant as the stance that no one bashing or complaining has played the game yet. So I am not sure what your reply had to do with my post lol. Or is this a state the obvious even when it has nothing to do with a post day and no one told me?
My turn... Star Trek Online is based off of the Star Trek IP.
I hope the game will succeed and that it will be amazing. I love the idea of STO game. But I'm just skeptical about cryptics ability to deliver a finished polished game. CO was a disaster and now I'm fearful that they are rushing to get STO out the door. I'm hoping thats all unfounded and they learned a lot of lessons from CO but I think that is the optimist in me...
One thing I'm gonna NOT do is preorder the game. Seems to me that every time I preorder a game it ends up being complete crap. So perhaps that's my karma...
---
Ethion
By the standards of the MMO market right now, it will fail. There wasnt ever any question about that. The question, though, is if it will fail for Cryptic. And that is something we cannot discuss without knowing how much money they spent making it, how much it improved Champions Online LTAs, and how much they expect out of the game.
I am sure it ll have a lackluster release with a decline afterwards, just like any smaller MMORPG in the last 5 years. Big ones usually have a stellar release ,followed by a steep decline, though, so I suppose its not that big a difference.
One year from now, few will care.
BUT: That does not mean it failed. If the game cost 20 million to produce, and box sales + a few LTAs + some monthly subs from the start are decent, it made its money back, employed a lot of people for several months or years, and leaves Cryptic in a state to produce a 3rd fast-food MMO. Its perfectly reasonable to produce cheap, limited-lifetime MMOs like CO and, as long as you dont spend too much, or the playerbase starts shunning you, make money off of them for a few months or a year.
In the end, what matters is what you planned for. WAR wouldnt have been a failure if it hadnt been planned and designed for a 700k+ sub number.
STO will have been in development at Cryptic for a good year, maybe two in terms of total cost. That is not a lot of money in the MMO market, and they wont need a 600k+ initial release and 2-3 years of 200k+ to recoup investment and profit a bit too. If they arent stupid and avoid spending more on patches, support and a life team than is absolutely necessary, they ll likely be able to coast on Star Trek fans for a few months, and make some money.
Yeah, as the discerning MMO player, we will most likely consider it a failure, as it ll burn out within weeks. But even if so, some of you guys will have spent money on the box and maybe a month or two, which is what Cryptic probably counts on.
Keep in mind, if you buy a box, and subcribe one month, you gave them the money that they would otherwise have to keep you around 4 months to earn. Players who buy the game, then quickly finish it and are done are better money than those you have to keep making content for just to keep them playing.
By what market standards? If you are referring to WOW, then that means every mmo besides wow has failed and we know thats not the case. We still have MMO's that are running 10 years after their release and still have content being made for them. The term 'Fail" is used way to vaguely in the MMO market now. If we were to look at how the naysayers look at the market today, then all games are "fail" no matter how much of a success they are.
By what market standards? If you are referring to WOW, then that means every mmo besides wow has failed and we know thats not the case. We still have MMO's that are running 10 years after their release and still have content being made for them. The term 'Fail" is used way to vaguely in the MMO market now. If we were to look at how the naysayers look at the market today, then all games are "fail" no matter how much of a success they are.
You got that one right. Some people even call LOTRO a failure even though it is still running with a good subscription base and new content being made for it. Some of these people just need to drop the pretense and admit that they will never be happy until some gaming company gives them their old school sandbox back.
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
Means 300k + sustained for a normal A-grade title. Maybe a bit more, maybe a bit less.
LotRO may or may not be a failure depending on whether you consider how much money it makes for Turbine (which isnt that much, and they continue to downscale their efforts to further develop it) or how many players in all markets it holds, which makes it a stable niche game.
Successes in the last years have been WoW, LotRO, EVE (which epitomes how success looks like for small MMOs, which STO belongs to: Slow start, neverending but healthy slow growth, no massive crash of sub numbers), with AoC and WAR being major failures, Tabula Rasa as well, and I wouldnt quite rate Champions Online yet, though it certainly did not exceed expecations.
STO, if its cheap, I suppose can be called a success if it manages 200k+ about half a year in and is growing. Which, frankly, I dont think it will, because I also dont think it is created with that goal in mind. STO is a very quickly created barebones game with the Star Trek license as its only pull (how many people would play this game without the license, on gameplay promises alone?).
Player Opinions seem to consider anything under 400k+ a failure, which I dont agree, and which many industry professionals, some of them blogging here, dont agree either. 200-300k sustained with growth is the standard of success for a smalish MMO these days.
Of course, we wont know till we see it. I just have given up on any short-term, license-based "innovative" MMO becoming a sleeper hit.
What gets me is that people just would rather assume that those with complaints about the game must have not played it and they must just be haters.
I will let you in on a secret, a lot of people discussing an MMO on here are in the beta. The only thing we can not do is out right say we are in the beta as that will get your post removed. When that NDA drops I know you will be surprised at how many "Haters' here are actually in the beta and playing.
By "A lot" do you mean both of them?