Some people have mentioned SWG already, and in that game (Pre-CU/NGE) all of these concepts were implemented, and not as afterthoughts, but stand-alone careers and gameplay. In terms of integrating combat and non-combat careers,I have yet to experience a game that put it all together in the way SWG did in its prime. As it stands now, combat seems to be the main focus of social interaction. Without other means for people (players) to interact socially outside of a chat box, it's not surprising that games today feel as though they have little depth. I would love to see a game designed with all of these concepts implemented again.
I find it interesting that players still dog SWG for the NGE when it still has features they are looking for. No argument on buggy state, loss of profession diversity or the awful handling of third expansion launch but there is quite a bit there as mentioned in this artical.
Crafting- You can make starships, buildings, furniture, food, clothing, droids, cybernetics, ground vehicals, weapons and armor.
Skill Moding Gear- There is a a system for refining and attaching player skill mods to clothes, armor and weapons.
Pet Creation- There is an option to create pets that come from the Star Wars Beastiery such as Banthas, Dewbacks and Rancors with options for combat or riding. It is complex and expessive for game resources to achieve.
City Building- A sub profession, Politician, is avaible to use in desigining and guiding the direction of thier Player built city.
Mercantile- Avaible to all crafters is the ability to place a vendor in ones own structure to sell items. This sytem is supported with Global search.
Collections- There is a system attacted to badges that allows certain achievements with rewards. There are three types, Pickup, Loot and Kill Quota. These award varible items such as xp, phyiscal rewards, titles.
Que-don Dar Cube- Looted items collection and creation system for making gear, stim buffs and decorations spacifically from Mustafar. Mudflation has cut into the value of this system but is still viable.
Player created missions- The Star Wars Chronical system is a sub profession that allows players to make missions based on looted componets for such. This system is a support to the role-playing community and those using Player events.
Player Events System- Located in Theaters and Hotels in static cities are Events Coordiators that sell items use to dress up a player event. Temporary items used to decorate fun events a player could hold such as a birthday party, wedding or grand opening.
Tradable Card Game- A sub game to the MMO is the TCG. It has avaible Loot Cards that can be used in the MMO. There are few game augmenting items but mostly vehicals, furniture, structures, clothing, decorations and collection items. The TCG is fun for its type of play.
Entertaining- The entertainer provides buffs supporting skills of all other professions needs in game through dance and song. They also can have a limited combat roll (with the right build) and are the soul provider of avatar alteration.
All that and combat to. That all stated flame and rip me apart for suggesting SWG is even playable, guys.
I have dreamed of a game that included crafters as an actual combat class.
I am thinking builders or siege weapons, humvee drivers, bridge builders, demolitions/traps, sabotage. There have been limited use of these in some games, (i had trapping rangers in GW and traps MMs in CoV) but I imagine something a lot mroe elaborate.
But more importantly, you would be able to level by crafting, repairing, healing, destroying, and setting traps.
Fallen Earth has taken some steps this direction with their last patch - -praise praise praise!
"Never met a pack of humans that were any different. Look at the idiots that get elected every couple of years. You really consider those guys more mature than us? The only difference between us and them is, when they gank some noobs and take their stuff, the noobs actually die." - Madimorga
Early in the Horizons beta, the only way to make items was to find or buy recipes for those items, this helped develop niche markets for people with certain recipes.. for a long time, I was the only one making bronze large shields.. I was making a killing in the market, even by keeping my prices low.. then they added the merchants who sold every single recipe and it took the bottom out of the crafting class for useful items.. so long as everyone has access to make every thing with the rigth recipes or grinding it makes no sense to put the time and effort in.. add to that where most MMOs have player created items that are vastly inferior to loot items of the same level and you pretty much have taken the fun out of crafting
MMORPGs, their developers, and players, I think, have yet to realize the immense potential that lies in them.
In my experience, MMOs have come from stories; experiences that led you along in an epic that had a great impact on that world's setting. While this has, and always will have, a place in MMORPGs, this isn't where their greatness lies. I will leave being led in a story to single-players games and their ilk (love them though I do.)
An MMORPG takes all of the things we love from these narrated tales and makes the world it's rendered in a digital reality. This fundamentally changes the nature of the material, though most MMOs I've seen haven't fully embraced this. I find myself playing many online games where I'm still led around via quests or marked level-ranged areas, with the full content of the world placed in the background. A life including a trade, a home, and an achievable, personally-defined view of what I want in and from a virtual world remains elusive.
Housing, crafting, player relationships, exploration, a well-developed and rich setting of lore, societies and cultures, all are a critical part of what I consider a true MMORPG. A world in which a player can take the knowledge that is available to them and forge a path to achieve their own goals, help others achieve theirs, nurture curiosities and desires they never expected, and still have an open future to define is something I hunger for.
I believe these things are achievable, and more besides. There's no way I can list all of the factors that would make a true MMORPG. In fact, a true definition for it is still being defined. I can only express that the above components, fully developed, are some of the key assets to creating what I believe to be a true MMORPG.
Some people have mentioned SWG already, and in that game (Pre-CU/NGE) all of these concepts were implemented, and not as afterthoughts, but stand-alone careers and gameplay. In terms of integrating combat and non-combat careers,I have yet to experience a game that put it all together in the way SWG did in its prime. As it stands now, combat seems to be the main focus of social interaction. Without other means for people (players) to interact socially outside of a chat box, it's not surprising that games today feel as though they have little depth. I would love to see a game designed with all of these concepts implemented again.
This.
SWG had the best crafting system of any game I have played dating back to UO. IF you wanted, you could be a crafter/merchant and do nothing else and be profitable at it. The other thing that I miss was the diversification of crafted items in SWG. No two items were the same, and you could influence the quality of your items with the quality of materials you used.
And JYCowboy, yes much of what was mentioned is still in SWG but it is a shell of what it once was. The depth that made those systems so awesome in SWG is just not there anymore since the CU/NGE, and that's why pre-CU/NGE players still dog it...among other reasons of course.
More OT:
I think building games are best left to the RTS genre. Games like Civ, and Galactic Civilizations have world building down to a very addictive science. While the idea of a building MMO sounds interesting on paper, I'm just not sure how it would work out in an MMO virtual world.
Far be it for me to discourage anyone though. If someone can make it work, I would definitely check it out.
As for puzzle games, I like them as side games only. Again, if someone can figure it out, I'm sure there would be a market for it.
Einherjar_LC says: WTB the true successor to UO or Asheron's Call pst!
---------- "Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
To the guy who wants UNIQUE crafting,you must realize that is IMPOSSIBLE?
You have 500 thousand players how long do you think your unique craft will last before 500 other people have the exact same thing?The way games are structured,the ONLY crafts that will matter are the VERY few that cater to each class, example ,,,gear completely drenched in INT for the Nuker or WIS for the healer,STR for the melee,STA for the TANK,i think you get the picture now.
So you may end up with about 20 maximum useful crafts ,that players would actually want,so you can see there wouldn't be much to the unique idea .To really make it work,you would need a game that takes combat to a whole new level,FFXI gave us a start,most games are super cheap for combat structure,with nothing more than spam your 2-3 best DPS icons.
To the person worried about everyone hitting max skill/level in crafting,yes i can see that as being a problem,i sort of liked the idea FFXI had but make it a little lower for cap.What FFXI did was give you a set maximum you could achieve in TOTAL crafts.I forget the exact number it was something like 450,so you could have 4 crafts hit 100 maximum and one at 50,i thought that was a little much so perhaps a number like 300-350?.This is just a start to fix the problem,there is other ideas,i just don't feel like chattting them all out right now,as the topic is really not about crafting lol.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Just make it so it takes 2 years to accomplish it.
In Saga of Ryzom development, one of the devs repplied to this saying: yeah, but it will take a really long time to do it.
Im not sure how much time he said he calculated, but it was over 6 months playing hardcore.
The key to this, is just making it so it would take more time. So you prevent the side effect of everyone having everything, maybe one guy, like the WOW player who got all the achievements could get it, but thats not of your concern if he doesnt have a life.
Your concern is valid if only everyone start maxing out everything...
The key concept is that MMORPGs world and characters dont stop progressing, neither reach a point where they cant evolve anymore, to achieve that, just stay true to the massive scale of time and effort required to become the best possible in whatever skills the game allows you.
About a crafting class in combat someone mentioned. Ragnarok's Blacksmith could craft and it packed a punch, you could even use in-game money to power up one of your attacks, it was awesome, the richest players using it had an edge.
Comments
I find it interesting that players still dog SWG for the NGE when it still has features they are looking for. No argument on buggy state, loss of profession diversity or the awful handling of third expansion launch but there is quite a bit there as mentioned in this artical.
Crafting- You can make starships, buildings, furniture, food, clothing, droids, cybernetics, ground vehicals, weapons and armor.
Skill Moding Gear- There is a a system for refining and attaching player skill mods to clothes, armor and weapons.
Pet Creation- There is an option to create pets that come from the Star Wars Beastiery such as Banthas, Dewbacks and Rancors with options for combat or riding. It is complex and expessive for game resources to achieve.
City Building- A sub profession, Politician, is avaible to use in desigining and guiding the direction of thier Player built city.
Mercantile- Avaible to all crafters is the ability to place a vendor in ones own structure to sell items. This sytem is supported with Global search.
Collections- There is a system attacted to badges that allows certain achievements with rewards. There are three types, Pickup, Loot and Kill Quota. These award varible items such as xp, phyiscal rewards, titles.
Que-don Dar Cube- Looted items collection and creation system for making gear, stim buffs and decorations spacifically from Mustafar. Mudflation has cut into the value of this system but is still viable.
Player created missions- The Star Wars Chronical system is a sub profession that allows players to make missions based on looted componets for such. This system is a support to the role-playing community and those using Player events.
Player Events System- Located in Theaters and Hotels in static cities are Events Coordiators that sell items use to dress up a player event. Temporary items used to decorate fun events a player could hold such as a birthday party, wedding or grand opening.
Tradable Card Game- A sub game to the MMO is the TCG. It has avaible Loot Cards that can be used in the MMO. There are few game augmenting items but mostly vehicals, furniture, structures, clothing, decorations and collection items. The TCG is fun for its type of play.
Entertaining- The entertainer provides buffs supporting skills of all other professions needs in game through dance and song. They also can have a limited combat roll (with the right build) and are the soul provider of avatar alteration.
All that and combat to. That all stated flame and rip me apart for suggesting SWG is even playable, guys.
I have dreamed of a game that included crafters as an actual combat class.
I am thinking builders or siege weapons, humvee drivers, bridge builders, demolitions/traps, sabotage. There have been limited use of these in some games, (i had trapping rangers in GW and traps MMs in CoV) but I imagine something a lot mroe elaborate.
But more importantly, you would be able to level by crafting, repairing, healing, destroying, and setting traps.
Fallen Earth has taken some steps this direction with their last patch - -praise praise praise!
"Never met a pack of humans that were any different. Look at the idiots that get elected every couple of years. You really consider those guys more mature than us? The only difference between us and them is, when they gank some noobs and take their stuff, the noobs actually die." - Madimorga
Early in the Horizons beta, the only way to make items was to find or buy recipes for those items, this helped develop niche markets for people with certain recipes.. for a long time, I was the only one making bronze large shields.. I was making a killing in the market, even by keeping my prices low.. then they added the merchants who sold every single recipe and it took the bottom out of the crafting class for useful items.. so long as everyone has access to make every thing with the rigth recipes or grinding it makes no sense to put the time and effort in.. add to that where most MMOs have player created items that are vastly inferior to loot items of the same level and you pretty much have taken the fun out of crafting
MMORPGs, their developers, and players, I think, have yet to realize the immense potential that lies in them.
In my experience, MMOs have come from stories; experiences that led you along in an epic that had a great impact on that world's setting. While this has, and always will have, a place in MMORPGs, this isn't where their greatness lies. I will leave being led in a story to single-players games and their ilk (love them though I do.)
An MMORPG takes all of the things we love from these narrated tales and makes the world it's rendered in a digital reality. This fundamentally changes the nature of the material, though most MMOs I've seen haven't fully embraced this. I find myself playing many online games where I'm still led around via quests or marked level-ranged areas, with the full content of the world placed in the background. A life including a trade, a home, and an achievable, personally-defined view of what I want in and from a virtual world remains elusive.
Housing, crafting, player relationships, exploration, a well-developed and rich setting of lore, societies and cultures, all are a critical part of what I consider a true MMORPG. A world in which a player can take the knowledge that is available to them and forge a path to achieve their own goals, help others achieve theirs, nurture curiosities and desires they never expected, and still have an open future to define is something I hunger for.
I believe these things are achievable, and more besides. There's no way I can list all of the factors that would make a true MMORPG. In fact, a true definition for it is still being defined. I can only express that the above components, fully developed, are some of the key assets to creating what I believe to be a true MMORPG.
This.
SWG had the best crafting system of any game I have played dating back to UO. IF you wanted, you could be a crafter/merchant and do nothing else and be profitable at it. The other thing that I miss was the diversification of crafted items in SWG. No two items were the same, and you could influence the quality of your items with the quality of materials you used.
And JYCowboy, yes much of what was mentioned is still in SWG but it is a shell of what it once was. The depth that made those systems so awesome in SWG is just not there anymore since the CU/NGE, and that's why pre-CU/NGE players still dog it...among other reasons of course.
More OT:
I think building games are best left to the RTS genre. Games like Civ, and Galactic Civilizations have world building down to a very addictive science. While the idea of a building MMO sounds interesting on paper, I'm just not sure how it would work out in an MMO virtual world.
Far be it for me to discourage anyone though. If someone can make it work, I would definitely check it out.
As for puzzle games, I like them as side games only. Again, if someone can figure it out, I'm sure there would be a market for it.
Einherjar_LC says: WTB the true successor to UO or Asheron's Call pst!
http://www.wurmonline.com/
----------
"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
To the guy who wants UNIQUE crafting,you must realize that is IMPOSSIBLE?
You have 500 thousand players how long do you think your unique craft will last before 500 other people have the exact same thing?The way games are structured,the ONLY crafts that will matter are the VERY few that cater to each class, example ,,,gear completely drenched in INT for the Nuker or WIS for the healer,STR for the melee,STA for the TANK,i think you get the picture now.
So you may end up with about 20 maximum useful crafts ,that players would actually want,so you can see there wouldn't be much to the unique idea .To really make it work,you would need a game that takes combat to a whole new level,FFXI gave us a start,most games are super cheap for combat structure,with nothing more than spam your 2-3 best DPS icons.
To the person worried about everyone hitting max skill/level in crafting,yes i can see that as being a problem,i sort of liked the idea FFXI had but make it a little lower for cap.What FFXI did was give you a set maximum you could achieve in TOTAL crafts.I forget the exact number it was something like 450,so you could have 4 crafts hit 100 maximum and one at 50,i thought that was a little much so perhaps a number like 300-350?.This is just a start to fix the problem,there is other ideas,i just don't feel like chattting them all out right now,as the topic is really not about crafting lol.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
About reaching max in all skill.
Just make it so it takes 2 years to accomplish it.
In Saga of Ryzom development, one of the devs repplied to this saying: yeah, but it will take a really long time to do it.
Im not sure how much time he said he calculated, but it was over 6 months playing hardcore.
The key to this, is just making it so it would take more time. So you prevent the side effect of everyone having everything, maybe one guy, like the WOW player who got all the achievements could get it, but thats not of your concern if he doesnt have a life.
Your concern is valid if only everyone start maxing out everything...
The key concept is that MMORPGs world and characters dont stop progressing, neither reach a point where they cant evolve anymore, to achieve that, just stay true to the massive scale of time and effort required to become the best possible in whatever skills the game allows you.
About a crafting class in combat someone mentioned. Ragnarok's Blacksmith could craft and it packed a punch, you could even use in-game money to power up one of your attacks, it was awesome, the richest players using it had an edge.
Thank you..
I've hard of this game before, but due to it looking like such crap I havent realy bothered reading up on it to much.
Wel I finaly did, and it sounds pretty much like all the things I've been dreaming of doing.
..now if only someone with a budget could take on a concept like this, instead of a poor 2 man development team.. ack, oh wel, home to test it out!