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PC Gamer Editorial
Eunuchmaker
Member UncommonPosts: 204
The January 2010 PC Gamer editorial regarding TOR was an interesting read--here's a bit of what was written:
"An Old Hope"
"Lucusars is gonna throttle me for saying this, but the real reason The Old Republic is shaping up to be so awesome? Because it's not the slightest bit innovative.
Think about it for a second. They've taken a familiar world--one we're all thrilled to inhabit, mind you--and they've surrounded it with the familiar gameplay and storytelling techiques that developer BioWare has honed in their offline offerings. This isn't a revolution in MMO gameplay, dear readers. This is a revolution in sensibility.
Finally, a massively multiplayer online RPG that's set to deliver the comfortable yet undeniably compelling offline experience that we've all come to cherish--and covet in our online gaming. Play TOR for just a few minutes, and you'll realize that the only real real threat to World of Warcraft isn't coming from a game that's redefining the genre, but instead from a game that unabashedly eschews innovation for the sake of polish, familiarity, refinement and classic storytelling"
He goes on for a bit more and ends with:
"Who needs "new" when you can have awesome instead?"
Thoughts? A polished game trumps an innovative game?
Comments
I've come to the conclusion the basic Innovation crying forum goers here don't even know what they want.
Awesome > New. And always will.
Do what you do best BioWare, that's all you need.
It is much more than polish vs innovative. But, if you want to break it down to just that, then I will take a polished "fun" game with all the usuall MMO features vs an innovative "maybe".
It will come down to what other features are in the game past the story arc quest lines. If they can get a bit of sandbox on each world mixed in with the level based quest system. It can be both the polished ususal and innovative. If it is just an extended Bioware SPG with an expansion system to keep the game going, then it will just be polished. Only time will tell.
How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them?
R.A.Salvatore
Boy are you wrong. Nothing will kill WoW, only demolish it's player base. If any avid WoW-haters need to cling to a messiah game that will come and 'kill' WoW, here's your game. Why do you think this isn't new? I'm sorry, name me an MMO like this. I'm waiting? Right, none. This isn't going to be KOTOR with multiplayer, did you ever check the video's? Notice a 'hotbar' at the bottom with spells and abilites. Instead of kotors D20 style gaming? This isn't kotor. This is new, and it's going to be awesome.
Major difference's.
KOTOR used Dungeons and Dragon's style gaming, not giving abilites other then Flurry and Power attack. SWTOR will probably have stuff like your usual MMO when it comes to abilites and combat.
First, your in a massive online world, they said, and I quote "Your choices will change the game." In their video when your on an imperial battleship and need to choose either to kill the captain or not, Don't forget you're with other players, in an online world. It can't be the same, it has to be different if it's an ONLINE WORLD! *don't ask me how it'll change the game, but I trust if anyone can do it, it would be BioWare"
Like WoW, it was on the fanbase bandwagon before it was even announced as an MMO. Star wars and Star Trek has a huge fanbase (a lot bigger then WoW, believe it or not). Which is a comfortable theme to all of us, of course it won't be like SWG which had all of our favorite character's and locations. KOTOR was only a game, probably 2/3rd's of the fanbase played it.
You say this won't be different, I'll say it wont be a revolution, but it will be super different.
(I play D&D 3.5 I like it, nothing against it.)
Played - M59, EQOA, EQ, EQ2, PS, SWG[Favorite], DAoC, UO, RS, MXO, CoH/CoV, TR, FFXI, FoM, WoW, Eve, Rift, SWTOR, TSW.
Playing - PS2, AoW, GW2
I understand you are excited for this game. But I can shorten your post for you. This game will be like your usual MMO with a SW theme as a main story arc with choices that change the story.
If you get too hyped for a game, it can only let you down. Let's just wait and see how it pans out. I would like this game to be a great MMO. I know it will be a great Bioware game, it is just the MMO part we don't know enough about. I am hoping for the best.
How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them?
R.A.Salvatore
I understand you are excited for this game. But I can shorten your post for you. This game will be like your usual MMO with a SW theme as a main story arc with choices that change the story.
If you get too hyped for a game, it can only let you down. Let's just wait and see how it pans out. I would like this game to be a great MMO. I know it will be a great Bioware game, it is just the MMO part we don't know enough about. I am hoping for the best.
Yeah your right, they never publicly released what part of the game will be Massively Multiplayer, but it wouldn't be considered an MMO if it was terrible
Played - M59, EQOA, EQ, EQ2, PS, SWG[Favorite], DAoC, UO, RS, MXO, CoH/CoV, TR, FFXI, FoM, WoW, Eve, Rift, SWTOR, TSW.
Playing - PS2, AoW, GW2
I understand you are excited for this game. But I can shorten your post for you. This game will be like your usual MMO with a SW theme as a main story arc with choices that change the story.
If you get too hyped for a game, it can only let you down. Let's just wait and see how it pans out. I would like this game to be a great MMO. I know it will be a great Bioware game, it is just the MMO part we don't know enough about. I am hoping for the best.
Yeah your right, they never publicly released what part of the game will be Massively Multiplayer, but it wouldn't be considered an MMO if it was terrible
They have actually. It was pretty much described on Dec 3rd when the embargo was lifted.
I can only assume you directed this post to the editor of PC Gamer, Gary Steinman (this was a part of his editorial, which I quoted)? I don't really think he'll read your post though.
I really like Bioware games, but this game is going to crash and burn into a pile of (fill in the blank here) simply because it is just a single player game with MMO aspects tacked on. It has some seriously flawed game play aspects and I still cannot get over the lame arse green figures showing certain classes where to go for cover. Then you have all this jedi sith stuff and they are going to tell you that sich and jedi are no more powerful than say your standard smuggler for PvP purposes. LMAO....
This whole game reminds me of a rehashed version of what Sony did with the NGE and all the iconic crap they tried to shove down our throats - only this time it is from Bioware and it will just be the same game with less MMO and mostly single player game. No thank you.
PC Gamer wants a bit of the cake.
It's apparent you have never played KOTOR as you would know you encounter plenty normal people that gave your group a run for their money, not to mention your Jedi was useless without his companions. Calo Nord thinks you're clueless.
Agreed. I never understood that innovation for the sake of innovation creed. If it ain't broken don't try to fix it.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
A semi decent post with some opinions and some opinion facts. Single player game with the MMO tacked on is pretty opinion fact. Until we have people playing the game and reporting in we don't know this either way. The only for shoure solo part of this game was the captain "flash point" which if you noticed, you could bring your group. The rest of the "solo movies" we see are just them showing a single class off, in a starter area (so it would seem). Again, it's very hard to say this game is a solo player game at this point.
The rest of the first part is pretty true and silly. I don't get why they would have big green LOLGOHERE for smugglers to hide. Supposedly they said that since this is "Heroic", the BH is equal to Fett, able to kill/hold their own against a Jedi/Sith. Seems kinda silly when you think of Jedi/Sith, and that means they became so much better as the years went by since now there are so few to challenge them? meh.
And I'm sorry, the whole reason NGE did so bad is because the game went from a very open sandboxy game with all professions fun in their own right to wanting to be a Wow wannabe. If the game had started out like that, it would have been different. But they turned changed the way combat functioned completely, removed classes, and basically said, f any thing we had before. Bioware as far as we know, isn't going to do it. And while Bioware has not had a MMO themselves, they know how to make games. So we shall see in a few months when actually gameplay footage comes out, and not just them showing off one certain aspect of the game.
I have a different opinion about what a Single player game is apparently, but alright we'll skip that part.
The reasoning behind the smugglers/agents is so simple a child could figure it out. The locations in which you can cover work like a sort of buffing spot, the smuggler or agent clicks these takes the animation as if he is in cover and gathers a nice defensive buff for doing so, the other most obvious reason is that not every object you may think usable for cover will be. Thus giving the smuggler/agent a better idea as to where he can take cover and opening up strategic planning as to where he will run for cover. The fact that people haven't grasped this (Read: most on this site) leads me to believe the forum goers here are utterly clueless, but that's just my asshole opinion which shouldn't be taken seriously or as fact...although I believe it to be so.
The third paragraph I'm rather happy somebody understands. It's like feeding a kid cherry lollipops for 4 years, he becomes used to it and it becomes his flavor of choice, then suddenly one day you hand him a minted flavor lollipop and he begins to whine and thrash about the floor....not as if the whining and thrashing about part holds any truth with the SWG vets and the NGE....maybe.
Good point by the article about innovation. But I think anyone that's following the game has long figured this out.
This is basically KOTOR or Mass Effect with multiplayer support, shared economy and PvP options. And that's not a bad thing.
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO
Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall
Currently Playing: ESO
Totally agree, so many things about the game sound like single player, with multiplayer options, with group forming accomplished at social hubs (similar to guildwars). to me it looks like a game that is entirely instanced, and unless people plan on running each one several times, as only the leader can make the choices - individual players cannot after all, so to progress their own 'storylines' in the way they want - they have to either do it solo, or get the group to do over again, with them as leader... i can see this leading to a lot of solo gameplay...
I'll settle for awesome any day.
Like another poster said, Bioware keep doing what you do best, it will be all good.
I agree with you.
However, there still might be some unsettling surprises down the line. It may be that Bioware aren't giving us a traditional 'mmorpg' at all but, instead, giving us a traditional 'sprpg with online features' like Neverwinter Nights. With a Star Wars theme and a KOTOR dynami, it might work out just fine as a game but it would certainly disappoint those of us who would have preferred a traditional 'mmorpg'.
I agree with you.
However, there still might be some unsettling surprises down the line. It may be that Bioware aren't giving us a traditional 'mmorpg' at all but, instead, giving us a traditional 'sprpg with online features' like Neverwinter Nights. With a Star Wars theme and a KOTOR dynami, it might work out just fine as a game but it would certainly disappoint those of us who would have preferred a traditional 'mmorpg'.
Hey, yeah, no doubt. I'm expecting BioWare will go with something I disagree with, it's been perfect (for me) so far. I'm not even planning to play ToR yet, not until I see payment methods, once this Is done my guild will open up recruitment. Let's hope BioWare does the right thing and goes with p2p with no strings attached. I'm also tired of these new MMO gimmicks. As far as it being a SP game, that depends on what you consider a SPgame. In my opinion, guild wars is a SPgame because of how closed off the world is. I remember picking up my pre-order and exiting the city to find myself alone. Haven't played since, and I'll do the same here.
First of all, have you ever actually watched Star Wars? I seem to recall maybe three or four Jedi/Sith in the original trilogy, and a few more smugglers, bounty hunters, fighter pilots, etc. Essentially, while there are Jedi/Sith heroes in Star Wars not all heroes in Star Wars are Jedi/Sith.
This was the point Bioware made when they introduced the game and is it a point that makes sense.
Second, how do you know it is "a single player game with MMO aspects tacked on?" Nothing I've read suggests that, it looks to me like you gave into the doom-sayers who are making up slightly plausible things about this game with zero evidence.
Maybe you missed the part in Ep.2 where Jango Fett fought and almost killed Obi-Wan or when Jango Fett killed several Jedi in the battle in the Genosian arena. Not every Jedi was as good as Luke Skywalker or Yoda just like not every Sith was as good as Darth Vader or the Emperor.
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
Maybe you missed the part in Ep.2 where Jango Fett fought and almost killed Obi-Wan or when Jango Fett killed several Jedi in the battle in the Genosian arena. Not every Jedi was as good as Luke Skywalker or Yoda just like not every Sith was as good as Darth Vader or the Emperor.
May I correct your statement:
1/. Jango Fett and a fully-armed and automated spacecraft almost killed Obi Wan
2/. Jango Fett killed one Jedi who was still fighting off an entire Genosian army to get to him.
3/. Jango Fett was killed with one blow by a Jedi
And never forget, never, ever forget, that Boba Fett was shot by a blind smuggler hanging upside down from a blazing vehicle.
First of all, have you ever actually watched Star Wars? I seem to recall maybe three or four Jedi/Sith in the original trilogy, and a few more smugglers, bounty hunters, fighter pilots, etc. Essentially, while there are Jedi/Sith heroes in Star Wars not all heroes in Star Wars are Jedi/Sith.
This was the point Bioware made when they introduced the game and is it a point that makes sense.
Second, how do you know it is "a single player game with MMO aspects tacked on?" Nothing I've read suggests that, it looks to me like you gave into the doom-sayers who are making up slightly plausible things about this game with zero evidence.
The problem is that BioWare said in one of their interviews that the "entire" game can be soloed. Now, you can take what you want from that meaning,does it mean that ill never have to group,even while doing high level content,who knows,you don't.
Yeah, i know BioWare have said their will be raids,the problem is none here know what BioWare means by raids,it might not mean the kind of raids that automatically come to mind or that any of us are familiar with.
Their will also be PVP,do you know how it will works? do you know if i can solo or will i need a group at all times while PVPing...no you don't.
BioWare have only stated that you can choose to do content solo or in a group,they have not said if the mobs will be harder if you are grouped. They have not mentioned anything about how the raiding will work,as a matter of fact they have been vague on all of the gaming mechanics of this mmorpg.
For instance, i could be in a raid with 4 people or even me alone for all you know. Anyone who thinks this game wont be very solo friendly is deluding themselves. The devs comment might very well mean just what he said "the ENTIRE game is soloable"
BioWare are not gods,they make good RPG but their are better dev teams that make RPG .They have never made a mmorpg and everyone of their games has been a linear box that keeps you on the path,from what i have seen and listen to by the devs,bioware are still using that same system.
Story story story,so fucking what..lotro is story driven ,perhaps not fully voiced but it's story driven,bioware don't have bragging rights for the first story driven mmorpg. All these forum mods and rampant fanboys sucking up to bioware when they have not actually shown any of the things that make this a mmorpg rather than a KOTOR3 with multiplayer is pathetic and leading this game to fail.
All we have is the devs saying it's not,that mean jack shit.
Show us why you think this mmorpg is a cut above everything else because right now,STO is looking just as good if not better.
GW2 looks just as good
APB looks just as good
FF X1V looks just as good.
Global Agenda looks good yeah i know it's an instanced party but then again prove swtor isnt an intanced zoning mmorpg,you can't because all you have is a dev saying it isnt.
Hype hype hype,is the killer and the rampant fanboys and sucking up forum mods will kill this game.
Heres another nail in the coffin for me buying this game.. /sigh
Folks are saying fun over innovation, and I agree, completly. I'm just wondering if its fun for me to play the same old game i've been playing for years, with a Star Wars skin on it. Yes, i'm looking forward to the story, no doubt, but once i get to the end game, until expansions come out, how much story is left to keep me interested?
Do I the 'reroll", and begin a new story? All right, how many months am I going to pay to just keep building up characters?
I don't know enough about the end game, and I don't believe anyone willing to share does, but the more i read about this game, the more turned off i find myself getting. If I wanted to play the same old MMO in a Star Wars skin....
well, i wouldn't...
At a time in your life any new game becomes the same as some other game you have already played in the past.
So if only the chars are interesting and have a good story around them it is good enough to be played with some fun and if the world offers some interesting hobbys to like crafting, exploring etc it is even better.
I fear that the game will be much to easy for the veteran player...
"Torquemada... do not implore him for compassion. Torquemada... do not beg him for forgiveness. Torquemada... do not ask him for mercy. Let's face it, you can't Torquemada anything!"
MWO Music Video - What does the Mech say: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FF6HYNqCDLI
Johnny Cash - The Man Comes Around: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0x2iwK0BKM
Folks are quite confused, I see. Since these 2 words are synonyms for each other.