"Heart" apparently translates into broken/lousy game mechanics and the struggle people had with them;) BUGS are not heart. Exploits are not heart either. Greifing isn't either. But when you NEED frustration to enjoy yourself in a videogame, is it any surprise games just don't exist like they used to? People just aren't that pathetic and stupid anymore to accept it. Well....SOME people don't accept it=)
No, it is simply this. A strict death penalty means that you are actually scared to die!
You don't know living (so to speak ) on the edge until you've done battle in a place that should you die, you might lose everything.
I've simply never had that tense feeling in ANY modern MMO.
So what if we fight 9 dragons at once? What's the worst thing that can happen? Death? Hahahaha! So what?
So the last 1/2 hr of clearing the dungeon that you might have to do all over again isn't penalty enough? You need another hour of mindless grinding on top of that to feel motivated, hehe? Its a game. I'm not scared of anything except wasting my time.
Some people don't feel scared or thrilled at the prospect of doing something boring for a while as a punishment while playing a videogame. It is entertainment after all. FUN? Although you get the feeling for some people the concept of entertainment means sitting on your a$$ doing repetititve actions for hours at a time. If you find it interesting to farm gold to rebuy some gear you lost or grinding EXP for an hour to make up for the last hour you just played, all the power to ya. Some of us realise its just a mindless time sink and a simple way to extend your game time. The penalty is NOT challenging. Its mind numbing. Better to let people learn and fail over and over again on the actual challenging task until you get it right, then grind away for hours when they fail. What exactly is challenging about farming for gold or EXP to make up for a death? You find that a good use of your time do ya? You think thats worth paying for?
"Heart" apparently translates into broken/lousy game mechanics and the struggle people had with them;) BUGS are not heart. Exploits are not heart either. Greifing isn't either. But when you NEED frustration to enjoy yourself in a videogame, is it any surprise games just don't exist like they used to? People just aren't that pathetic and stupid anymore to accept it. Well....SOME people don't accept it=)
No, it is simply this. A strict death penalty means that you are actually scared to die!
You don't know living (so to speak ) on the edge until you've done battle in a place that should you die, you might lose everything.
I've simply never had that tense feeling in ANY modern MMO.
So what if we fight 9 dragons at once? What's the worst thing that can happen? Death? Hahahaha! So what?
So the last 1/2 hr of clearing the dungeon that you might have to do all over again isn't penalty enough? You need another hour of mindless grinding on top of that to feel motivated, hehe? Its a game. I'm not scared of anything except wasting my time.
Some people don't feel scared or thrilled at the prospect of doing something boring for a while as a punishment while playing a videogame. It is entertainment after all. FUN? Although you get the feeling for some people the concept of entertainment means sitting on your a$$ doing repetititve actions for hours at a time. If you find it interesting to farm gold to rebuy some gear you lost or grinding EXP for an hour to make up for the last hour you just played, all the power to ya. Some of us realise its just a mindless time sink and a simple way to extend your game time. The penalty is NOT challenging. Its mind numbing. Better to let people learn and fail over and over again on the actual challenging task until you get it right, then grind away for hours when they fail. What exactly is challenging about farming for gold or EXP to make up for a death? You find that a good use of your time do ya? You think thats worth paying for?
Er... did you even READ my post?
I said nothing about any additional grind WHATSOEVER.
What I said was that there was no comparison on the tension front between death debt and LOSING ALL OF YOUR GEAR!
Did you see the losing all of your gear part? It has nothing to do with how much time is spent grinding. It has to do with feeling real fear when you play.
As I said, as it stands now, death is fairly meaningless.
If you wish to reply to a post, it might be a good idea to reply to what was actually said.
I didn't have a favourite macro per se... but, I'll post one that irritated me to no end!
"Vender buy me GUARDS to protect me while I balance my bank account then recsu recdu to my destination."
Various macros similar to this eventually caused me to develop a nervous twitch every time I went into town. Being near a bank would literally fill your screen with garbage text all because people were too lazy to type "bank".
Getting drunk inside the boat in OOT was a bad idea... you would clip through the boat and end up in the ocean.
ROFL, seriously, that happened to me but was on the ride to Erudin from Qeynos. Took me 3 solid hours to get back to land.
Aside from the quotes, what about that stupid spell book that used to pop up when you med. Was like one killer of a static screensaver. Especially when you tried to med somewhere like in the middle of Stonebrunt.
Didn't they come out with a game to play in that book while you med after awhile... Can't remember its been so long. Also later in the game you could med without the book past 40? Man EQ was a fun game even though it was a harsh world back then...
I do really miss the trains, its was so funny watching a ton of people just running for there lifes.("Train to zone move it or lose it") Thats back way back when games were real and you would be scared for real when exploring, knowing that if you died you had a long walk back and then you might need help to get your body back. Time wasters some may say but it made the game worth playing instead of the insta-grad era we are in now-a-days. Play for 30mins get your shiny that everyone and there mom has. Oh well, it is what it is
"Heart" apparently translates into broken/lousy game mechanics and the struggle people had with them;) BUGS are not heart. Exploits are not heart either. Greifing isn't either. But when you NEED frustration to enjoy yourself in a videogame, is it any surprise games just don't exist like they used to? People just aren't that pathetic and stupid anymore to accept it. Well....SOME people don't accept it=)
No, it is simply this. A strict death penalty means that you are actually scared to die!
You don't know living (so to speak ) on the edge until you've done battle in a place that should you die, you might lose everything.
I've simply never had that tense feeling in ANY modern MMO.
So what if we fight 9 dragons at once? What's the worst thing that can happen? Death? Hahahaha! So what?
So the last 1/2 hr of clearing the dungeon that you might have to do all over again isn't penalty enough? You need another hour of mindless grinding on top of that to feel motivated, hehe? Its a game. I'm not scared of anything except wasting my time.
Some people don't feel scared or thrilled at the prospect of doing something boring for a while as a punishment while playing a videogame. It is entertainment after all. FUN? Although you get the feeling for some people the concept of entertainment means sitting on your a$$ doing repetititve actions for hours at a time. If you find it interesting to farm gold to rebuy some gear you lost or grinding EXP for an hour to make up for the last hour you just played, all the power to ya. Some of us realise its just a mindless time sink and a simple way to extend your game time. The penalty is NOT challenging. Its mind numbing. Better to let people learn and fail over and over again on the actual challenging task until you get it right, then grind away for hours when they fail. What exactly is challenging about farming for gold or EXP to make up for a death? You find that a good use of your time do ya? You think thats worth paying for?
Er... did you even READ my post?
I said nothing about any additional grind WHATSOEVER.
What I said was that there was no comparison on the tension front between death debt and LOSING ALL OF YOUR GEAR!
Did you see the losing all of your gear part? It has nothing to do with how much time is spent grinding. It has to do with feeling real fear when you play.
As I said, as it stands now, death is fairly meaningless.
If you wish to reply to a post, it might be a good idea to reply to what was actually said.
Just a thought.
And when you lose ALL YOUR GEAR, how pray tell do you buy new gear to replace it? Does that new gear just plop into your bank when you die? Nope. You have to go grind to get it again. SO, it might be a better idea to actually understand how game dynamics work and look at the big picture. Just a thought. Losing all your gear is just another mindless TIME SINK that is neither challenging nor productive or FUN. Maybe grinding for gear is fun for you. When you lose it, you have to grind something to replace it right? Otherwise, why get frightened at the thought of losing it?
"Heart" apparently translates into broken/lousy game mechanics and the struggle people had with them;) BUGS are not heart. Exploits are not heart either. Greifing isn't either. But when you NEED frustration to enjoy yourself in a videogame, is it any surprise games just don't exist like they used to? People just aren't that pathetic and stupid anymore to accept it. Well....SOME people don't accept it=)
No, it is simply this. A strict death penalty means that you are actually scared to die!
You don't know living (so to speak ) on the edge until you've done battle in a place that should you die, you might lose everything.
I've simply never had that tense feeling in ANY modern MMO.
So what if we fight 9 dragons at once? What's the worst thing that can happen? Death? Hahahaha! So what?
So the last 1/2 hr of clearing the dungeon that you might have to do all over again isn't penalty enough? You need another hour of mindless grinding on top of that to feel motivated, hehe? Its a game. I'm not scared of anything except wasting my time.
Some people don't feel scared or thrilled at the prospect of doing something boring for a while as a punishment while playing a videogame. It is entertainment after all. FUN? Although you get the feeling for some people the concept of entertainment means sitting on your a$$ doing repetititve actions for hours at a time. If you find it interesting to farm gold to rebuy some gear you lost or grinding EXP for an hour to make up for the last hour you just played, all the power to ya. Some of us realise its just a mindless time sink and a simple way to extend your game time. The penalty is NOT challenging. Its mind numbing. Better to let people learn and fail over and over again on the actual challenging task until you get it right, then grind away for hours when they fail. What exactly is challenging about farming for gold or EXP to make up for a death? You find that a good use of your time do ya? You think thats worth paying for?
Er... did you even READ my post?
I said nothing about any additional grind WHATSOEVER.
What I said was that there was no comparison on the tension front between death debt and LOSING ALL OF YOUR GEAR!
Did you see the losing all of your gear part? It has nothing to do with how much time is spent grinding. It has to do with feeling real fear when you play.
As I said, as it stands now, death is fairly meaningless.
If you wish to reply to a post, it might be a good idea to reply to what was actually said.
Just a thought.
And when you lose ALL YOUR GEAR, how pray tell do you buy new gear to replace it? Does that new gear just plop into your bank when you die? Nope. You have to go grind to get it again. SO, it might be a better idea to actually understand how game dynamics work and look at the big picture. Just a thought. Losing all your gear is just another mindless TIME SINK that is neither challenging nor productive or FUN. Maybe grinding for gear is fun for you. When you lose it, you have to grind something to replace it right? Otherwise, why get frightened at the thought of losing it?
Well, I suppose that we each have different ideas about what is fun.
It is REALLY fun to have fear and tension. It is really cool to not even want to enter a place because you know you might die, and worse, that if you do you might have trouble getting your stuff back.
If you lost all of your gear... oh well. That's the price you pay to get the fun.
Of course losing your gear was not a fun thing by itself. That's WHY it was scary.
Look, I don't begrudge you and your choices. Only saying that other forms of entertainment cater to a lot of seperate niches.
I want fear and dread in the game and potential loss of gear is the way to get there. It doesn't work for you, so fine. Play one of the myriad of pussified games that exist.
I was always recieving /tells to go summon corpses from somewhere. It got so bad at one point the only way i could actually play was to go /anon and /RP just so i could lvl lol...ah the good old days lol
I want fear and dread in the game and potential loss of gear is the way to get there. It doesn't work for you, so fine. Play one of the myriad of pussified games that exist.
So that's how you see yourself? You're a tough guy? It's a computer game! lol
I want fear and dread in the game and potential loss of gear is the way to get there. It doesn't work for you, so fine. Play one of the myriad of pussified games that exist.
So that's how you see yourself? You're a tough guy? It's a computer game! lol
How does one be tough in a computer game?
I simply want fear and tension in the game. That's all.
When one attempts to solo a dragon because there is no reason not to, then that monster isn't exactly scary, is it? Remove the tension and that is pussification. Has nothing to do with being tough.
I mean, humans love to be scared and tense. That's why we have horror movies.
And when you lose ALL YOUR GEAR, how pray tell do you buy new gear to replace it? Does that new gear just plop into your bank when you die? Nope. You have to go grind to get it again. SO, it might be a better idea to actually understand how game dynamics work and look at the big picture. Just a thought. Losing all your gear is just another mindless TIME SINK that is neither challenging nor productive or FUN. Maybe grinding for gear is fun for you. When you lose it, you have to grind something to replace it right? Otherwise, why get frightened at the thought of losing it?
Why do you play MMOs? I think you might enjoy single player games more.
"Heart" apparently translates into broken/lousy game mechanics and the struggle people had with them;) BUGS are not heart. Exploits are not heart either. Greifing isn't either. But when you NEED frustration to enjoy yourself in a videogame, is it any surprise games just don't exist like they used to? People just aren't that pathetic and stupid anymore to accept it. Well....SOME people don't accept it=)
Bah, if you played EQ, you hate on it, because you couldn't survive in that game. Do you comprehend that sometimes when you suffer you learn from it? You don't make your mistake twice. Go spew your venom elsewhere WoW fanboy!
Oh, it's funny that you complain about time sinks ect, when WoW was way more of a grind then EQ was. WoW is a second job with a bunch of asshats that fill the community. You don't understand what an Adventure is, EQ was an adventure. Don't knock something if you never experienced both sides of the coin!
I did personal attack you, because I am sick of these WoW fanboys on this game, who just spew their venom when they don't even know. They attack everyone else and not even stay on topic with the post nor anyone they reply too. Sorry man, you just fit in with the stereotypical WoW player and yes I know you're a WoW homer. /end rant
"Heart" apparently translates into broken/lousy game mechanics and the struggle people had with them;) BUGS are not heart. Exploits are not heart either. Greifing isn't either. But when you NEED frustration to enjoy yourself in a videogame, is it any surprise games just don't exist like they used to? People just aren't that pathetic and stupid anymore to accept it. Well....SOME people don't accept it=)
No, it is simply this. A strict death penalty means that you are actually scared to die!
You don't know living (so to speak ) on the edge until you've done battle in a place that should you die, you might lose everything.
I've simply never had that tense feeling in ANY modern MMO.
So what if we fight 9 dragins at once? What's the worst thing that can happen? Death? Hahahaha! So what?
mm aion is the closest thing for now .nobody want to die in that game ,since die mean you have grind all that xp back for 3 or 4 hour
3 or 4 hours of PITA is not even close to losing all of your gear.
Plane of Fear Break In or the Rathe Counsil Raid.. given the best gear with a full raid, a full EQ playerbase would slaughter both raids with minimal to moderate gear. Why? Because that game is one of very few who produced good players.
"Heart" apparently translates into broken/lousy game mechanics and the struggle people had with them;) BUGS are not heart. Exploits are not heart either. Greifing isn't either. But when you NEED frustration to enjoy yourself in a videogame, is it any surprise games just don't exist like they used to? People just aren't that pathetic and stupid anymore to accept it. Well....SOME people don't accept it=)
No, it is simply this. A strict death penalty means that you are actually scared to die!
You don't know living (so to speak ) on the edge until you've done battle in a place that should you die, you might lose everything.
I've simply never had that tense feeling in ANY modern MMO.
So what if we fight 9 dragons at once? What's the worst thing that can happen? Death? Hahahaha! So what?
So the last 1/2 hr of clearing the dungeon that you might have to do all over again isn't penalty enough? You need another hour of mindless grinding on top of that to feel motivated, hehe? Its a game. I'm not scared of anything except wasting my time.
Some people don't feel scared or thrilled at the prospect of doing something boring for a while as a punishment while playing a videogame. It is entertainment after all. FUN? Although you get the feeling for some people the concept of entertainment means sitting on your a$$ doing repetititve actions for hours at a time. If you find it interesting to farm gold to rebuy some gear you lost or grinding EXP for an hour to make up for the last hour you just played, all the power to ya. Some of us realise its just a mindless time sink and a simple way to extend your game time. The penalty is NOT challenging. Its mind numbing. Better to let people learn and fail over and over again on the actual challenging task until you get it right, then grind away for hours when they fail. What exactly is challenging about farming for gold or EXP to make up for a death? You find that a good use of your time do ya? You think thats worth paying for?
Er... did you even READ my post?
I said nothing about any additional grind WHATSOEVER.
What I said was that there was no comparison on the tension front between death debt and LOSING ALL OF YOUR GEAR!
Did you see the losing all of your gear part? It has nothing to do with how much time is spent grinding. It has to do with feeling real fear when you play.
As I said, as it stands now, death is fairly meaningless.
If you wish to reply to a post, it might be a good idea to reply to what was actually said.
Just a thought.
And when you lose ALL YOUR GEAR, how pray tell do you buy new gear to replace it? Does that new gear just plop into your bank when you die? Nope. You have to go grind to get it again. SO, it might be a better idea to actually understand how game dynamics work and look at the big picture. Just a thought. Losing all your gear is just another mindless TIME SINK that is neither challenging nor productive or FUN. Maybe grinding for gear is fun for you. When you lose it, you have to grind something to replace it right? Otherwise, why get frightened at the thought of losing it?
You never played Everquest 1 did you?
Imagine your raiding a dungeon, perhaps Chardok and your raid wipes right at the very bottom, you all appear at your bind spot naked, your gear is now currently on your corpse at the bottom of said dungeon.
You have 3 options, option one is to get your spare gear out of the bank and fight your way back down there, could take several hours and you might just wipe again when you get to the bottom, so pretty risky.
Option 2 is similar to option one but you go down in Mage summoned gear, it's crap but it's summoned and costs only mana, but you still have to fight mobs to get your old corpse back.
Option 3 is to grab a necro and get a crap load of coffins (which at the time where epxensive) and summon the corpses back to the Dungeon zone line.
Now all of this takes time no matter what way you look at it, it might have taken you 4 hrs to get to the bottom of the dungeon in the first place and a further 2 hrs of sorting yourself out to get all the bodies back.
Now the reason the old EQ1 death penalty was so good is becuase it didn't make you go out and get more gear to replace the old stuff on your corpse, no, what it did was make you so focused on getting your old gear back that it was the worse thing in the entire game to just let your corpse rot away with everything on it, in fact I never heard of anyone ever leaving a fully equipped corpse behind, every piece of equipment you raided for was cherished and you had sweated blood over getting the damn things, you sure as hell weren't going to leave them behind.
Now ofc EQ1 has moved on alot since those days, a shame really as it's taken alot of the edge out of the game, dying is now as meaningless as it is in 99 percent of games,
I want fear and dread in the game and potential loss of gear is the way to get there. It doesn't work for you, so fine. Play one of the myriad of pussified games that exist.
So that's how you see yourself? You're a tough guy? It's a computer game! lol
How does one be tough in a computer game?
I simply want fear and tension in the game. That's all.
When one attempts to solo a dragon because there is no reason not to, then that monster isn't exactly scary, is it? Remove the tension and that is pussification. Has nothing to do with being tough.
I mean, humans love to be scared and tense. That's why we have horror movies.
I'm playing Dead Space right now on Hard. When you die, you lose just a few minutes of actual game time and you die fast often. I don't WANT TO die when playing. I want to live. I do my best to NOT die. Its scary. Its tense. Is that a pussified game because the death penalty is pretty minor? Or, should I have to start from the begining of the chapter every time I die in order to feel better about myself? Would YOU start from the begining everytime even though the game doesn't FORCE YOU to?
Yes, humans love to be tense, true. However, MOST humans can see a MMO penalty for what it actually is...a time sink for failing. Is it anything else? Does the penalty for failing in a MMO equal anything other than a lot of wasted time? Because if you say otherwise, you're either really, REALLY ignorant or just clueless. The penalty in EVERY MMO is replaying something. You're either farming to recoup EXP or COIN and they both just equal TIME. How much one values their time is what determines an acceptable death penalty. If an hour of your time accomplishing nothing in the game, is a good use of it I guess your time doesnt' matter to you.
"Heart" apparently translates into broken/lousy game mechanics and the struggle people had with them;) BUGS are not heart. Exploits are not heart either. Greifing isn't either. But when you NEED frustration to enjoy yourself in a videogame, is it any surprise games just don't exist like they used to? People just aren't that pathetic and stupid anymore to accept it. Well....SOME people don't accept it=)
No, it is simply this. A strict death penalty means that you are actually scared to die!
You don't know living (so to speak ) on the edge until you've done battle in a place that should you die, you might lose everything.
I've simply never had that tense feeling in ANY modern MMO.
So what if we fight 9 dragons at once? What's the worst thing that can happen? Death? Hahahaha! So what?
So the last 1/2 hr of clearing the dungeon that you might have to do all over again isn't penalty enough? You need another hour of mindless grinding on top of that to feel motivated, hehe? Its a game. I'm not scared of anything except wasting my time.
Some people don't feel scared or thrilled at the prospect of doing something boring for a while as a punishment while playing a videogame. It is entertainment after all. FUN? Although you get the feeling for some people the concept of entertainment means sitting on your a$$ doing repetititve actions for hours at a time. If you find it interesting to farm gold to rebuy some gear you lost or grinding EXP for an hour to make up for the last hour you just played, all the power to ya. Some of us realise its just a mindless time sink and a simple way to extend your game time. The penalty is NOT challenging. Its mind numbing. Better to let people learn and fail over and over again on the actual challenging task until you get it right, then grind away for hours when they fail. What exactly is challenging about farming for gold or EXP to make up for a death? You find that a good use of your time do ya? You think thats worth paying for?
Er... did you even READ my post?
I said nothing about any additional grind WHATSOEVER.
What I said was that there was no comparison on the tension front between death debt and LOSING ALL OF YOUR GEAR!
Did you see the losing all of your gear part? It has nothing to do with how much time is spent grinding. It has to do with feeling real fear when you play.
As I said, as it stands now, death is fairly meaningless.
If you wish to reply to a post, it might be a good idea to reply to what was actually said.
Just a thought.
And when you lose ALL YOUR GEAR, how pray tell do you buy new gear to replace it? Does that new gear just plop into your bank when you die? Nope. You have to go grind to get it again. SO, it might be a better idea to actually understand how game dynamics work and look at the big picture. Just a thought. Losing all your gear is just another mindless TIME SINK that is neither challenging nor productive or FUN. Maybe grinding for gear is fun for you. When you lose it, you have to grind something to replace it right? Otherwise, why get frightened at the thought of losing it?
You never played Everquest 1 did you?
Imagine your raiding a dungeon, perhaps Chardok and your raid wipes right at the very bottom, you all appear at your bind spot naked, your gear is now currently on your corpse at the bottom of said dungeon.
You have 3 options, option one is to get your spare gear out of the bank and fight your way back down there, could take several hours and you might just wipe again when you get to the bottom, so pretty risky.
Option 2 is similar to option one but you go down in Mage summoned gear, it's crap but it's summoned and costs only mana, but you still have to fight mobs to get your old corpse back.
Option 3 is to grab a necro and get a crap load of coffins (which at the time where epxensive) and summon the corpses back to the Dungeon zone line.
Now all of this takes time no matter what way you look at it, it might have taken you 4 hrs to get to the bottom of the dungeon in the first place and a further 2 hrs of sorting yourself out to get all the bodies back.
Now the reason the old EQ1 death penalty was so good is becuase it didn't make you go out and get more gear to replace the old stuff on your corpse, no, what it did was make you so focused on getting your old gear back that it was the worse thing in the entire game to just let your corpse rot away with everything on it, in fact I never heard of anyone ever leaving a fully equipped corpse behind, every piece of equipment you raided for was cherished and you had sweated blood over getting the damn things, you sure as hell weren't going to leave them behind.
Now ofc EQ1 has moved on alot since those days, a shame really as it's taken alot of the edge out of the game, dying is now as meaningless as it is in 99 percent of games,
No, I had a life=) EQ wasn't exactly something FUN to do. But I watched my roommates play every night after work. Wasting hours of time fetching my corpse was not what I called fun. Glorifying your memories doesn't make it any more fun. The fact no MMOs have naked corpse runs any more should be proof enough just how bad a mechanic it was. The fact EQ had to adjust its penalty just to hold onto the scraps of players it has left is also proof people can see through the pointlessness of those kinds of penalties.
I'm not saying have no penalty. 5-10 minutes should be acceptable. Hours? If you like chains and whips=)
I want fear and dread in the game and potential loss of gear is the way to get there. It doesn't work for you, so fine. Play one of the myriad of pussified games that exist.
So that's how you see yourself? You're a tough guy? It's a computer game! lol
How does one be tough in a computer game?
I simply want fear and tension in the game. That's all.
When one attempts to solo a dragon because there is no reason not to, then that monster isn't exactly scary, is it? Remove the tension and that is pussification. Has nothing to do with being tough.
I mean, humans love to be scared and tense. That's why we have horror movies.
I'm playing Dead Space right now on Hard. When you die, you lose just a few minutes of actual game time and you die fast often. I don't WANT TO die when playing. I want to live. I do my best to NOT die. Its scary. Its tense. Is that a pussified game because the death penalty is pretty minor? Or, should I have to start from the begining of the chapter every time I die in order to feel better about myself? Would YOU start from the begining everytime even though the game doesn't FORCE YOU to?
Yes, humans love to be tense, true. However, MOST humans can see a MMO penalty for what it actually is...a time sink for failing. Is it anything else? Does the penalty for failing in a MMO equal anything other than a lot of wasted time? Because if you say otherwise, you're either really, REALLY ignorant or just clueless. The penalty in EVERY MMO is replaying something. You're either farming to recoup EXP or COIN and they both just equal TIME. How much one values their time is what determines an acceptable death penalty. If an hour of your time accomplishing nothing in the game, is a good use of it I guess your time doesnt' matter to you.
No, a stiff death penealty is exactly that. And what makes it painful and a thing to be avoided is how big a PITA it is. Simple. I've never claimed otherwise.
I'm glad you don't feel like dying in Dead Space, but I don't see why you'd have such fear if you have little to lose BY losing. So, to me, yes, that's a pussified game. How you can compare that to the loss of epic loot is beyond me.
But I'm the one ignorant and clueless. Ok, fine, whatever.
I want fear and dread in the game and potential loss of gear is the way to get there. It doesn't work for you, so fine. Play one of the myriad of pussified games that exist.
So that's how you see yourself? You're a tough guy? It's a computer game! lol
How does one be tough in a computer game?
I simply want fear and tension in the game. That's all.
When one attempts to solo a dragon because there is no reason not to, then that monster isn't exactly scary, is it? Remove the tension and that is pussification. Has nothing to do with being tough.
I mean, humans love to be scared and tense. That's why we have horror movies.
I'm playing Dead Space right now on Hard. When you die, you lose just a few minutes of actual game time and you die fast often. I don't WANT TO die when playing. I want to live. I do my best to NOT die. Its scary. Its tense. Is that a pussified game because the death penalty is pretty minor? Or, should I have to start from the begining of the chapter every time I die in order to feel better about myself? Would YOU start from the begining everytime even though the game doesn't FORCE YOU to?
Yes, humans love to be tense, true. However, MOST humans can see a MMO penalty for what it actually is...a time sink for failing. Is it anything else? Does the penalty for failing in a MMO equal anything other than a lot of wasted time? Because if you say otherwise, you're either really, REALLY ignorant or just clueless. The penalty in EVERY MMO is replaying something. You're either farming to recoup EXP or COIN and they both just equal TIME. How much one values their time is what determines an acceptable death penalty. If an hour of your time accomplishing nothing in the game, is a good use of it I guess your time doesnt' matter to you.
No, a stiff death penealty is exactly that. And what makes it painful and a thing to be avoided is how big a PITA it is. Simple. I've never claimed otherwise.
I'm glad you don't feel like dying in Dead Space, but I don't see why you'd have such fear if you have little to lose BY losing. So, to me, yes, that's a pussified game. How you can compare that to the loss of epic loot is beyond me.
But I'm the one ignorant and clueless. Ok, fine, whatever.
A comparison is not trying to prove they're equal. Buh Bye. Whatever is right. Its like trying to explain something to my kid=) Don't worry when you grow up, you'll understand that you don't need to be punished heavily to have fun in a videogame.
I want fear and dread in the game and potential loss of gear is the way to get there. It doesn't work for you, so fine. Play one of the myriad of pussified games that exist.
So that's how you see yourself? You're a tough guy? It's a computer game! lol
How does one be tough in a computer game?
I simply want fear and tension in the game. That's all.
When one attempts to solo a dragon because there is no reason not to, then that monster isn't exactly scary, is it? Remove the tension and that is pussification. Has nothing to do with being tough.
I mean, humans love to be scared and tense. That's why we have horror movies.
I'm playing Dead Space right now on Hard. When you die, you lose just a few minutes of actual game time and you die fast often. I don't WANT TO die when playing. I want to live. I do my best to NOT die. Its scary. Its tense. Is that a pussified game because the death penalty is pretty minor? Or, should I have to start from the begining of the chapter every time I die in order to feel better about myself? Would YOU start from the begining everytime even though the game doesn't FORCE YOU to?
Yes, humans love to be tense, true. However, MOST humans can see a MMO penalty for what it actually is...a time sink for failing. Is it anything else? Does the penalty for failing in a MMO equal anything other than a lot of wasted time? Because if you say otherwise, you're either really, REALLY ignorant or just clueless. The penalty in EVERY MMO is replaying something. You're either farming to recoup EXP or COIN and they both just equal TIME. How much one values their time is what determines an acceptable death penalty. If an hour of your time accomplishing nothing in the game, is a good use of it I guess your time doesnt' matter to you.
When I died in EQ and lost hours of progress I would get a bit upset but I never saw it as a waste of my time. I do not measure how I spend my time solely based on the games mechanics for progression such as leveling and gear, but I measure it mostly on if I had fun interacting and socializing with the community. I would always have fun making new friends and just exploring what the world had to offer.
To me an MMO is more of a social experience then a gaming experience. Inconvenient features such as death penalty, long travel time, and other such features help contribute to a world you are afraid to die in. This in turn causes people to depend on each other for survival or services to make living in that world a little easier. This is what I like in my MMO experience, because the community as a whole becomes better.
I think you are strictly looking at it in a gaming sense and quantify your time solely based on the games built in mechanics of progression. If that's your view, then yeah those mechanics are all pointless time wasters and that's fine for you and the majority. However, to berate the players who enjoy these features is narrow minded to say the least.
I want fear and dread in the game and potential loss of gear is the way to get there. It doesn't work for you, so fine. Play one of the myriad of pussified games that exist.
So that's how you see yourself? You're a tough guy? It's a computer game! lol
How does one be tough in a computer game?
I simply want fear and tension in the game. That's all.
When one attempts to solo a dragon because there is no reason not to, then that monster isn't exactly scary, is it? Remove the tension and that is pussification. Has nothing to do with being tough.
I mean, humans love to be scared and tense. That's why we have horror movies.
I'm playing Dead Space right now on Hard. When you die, you lose just a few minutes of actual game time and you die fast often. I don't WANT TO die when playing. I want to live. I do my best to NOT die. Its scary. Its tense. Is that a pussified game because the death penalty is pretty minor? Or, should I have to start from the begining of the chapter every time I die in order to feel better about myself? Would YOU start from the begining everytime even though the game doesn't FORCE YOU to?
Yes, humans love to be tense, true. However, MOST humans can see a MMO penalty for what it actually is...a time sink for failing. Is it anything else? Does the penalty for failing in a MMO equal anything other than a lot of wasted time? Because if you say otherwise, you're either really, REALLY ignorant or just clueless. The penalty in EVERY MMO is replaying something. You're either farming to recoup EXP or COIN and they both just equal TIME. How much one values their time is what determines an acceptable death penalty. If an hour of your time accomplishing nothing in the game, is a good use of it I guess your time doesnt' matter to you.
No, a stiff death penealty is exactly that. And what makes it painful and a thing to be avoided is how big a PITA it is. Simple. I've never claimed otherwise.
I'm glad you don't feel like dying in Dead Space, but I don't see why you'd have such fear if you have little to lose BY losing. So, to me, yes, that's a pussified game. How you can compare that to the loss of epic loot is beyond me.
But I'm the one ignorant and clueless. Ok, fine, whatever.
A comparison is not trying to prove they're equal. Buh Bye. Whatever is right. Its like trying to explain something to my kid=) Don't worry when you grow up, you'll understand that you don't need to be punished heavily to have fun in a videogame.
Right. A contentless reply like this means but one thing. You're out of ammo.
I never said that YOU should enjoy what I do. You've got a lot to learn about the human condition. We're not lemmings. There is no right or wrong about it. You don't want to even try to understand? Fine. Get in to politics, you should be pretty good.
Wow lots of memories, I loved EQ back in the day but looking back in the time I put into the game back then there is no way I could play it today due to work etc, I was really time consuming but I'm glad I got to play one of the best mmo's ever at the start/peak.
Apart from all the leveling, raids etc, I used to love chilling out at the EC tunnel, some of the patter there was really funny at times and Sgt Slate was always a favorite of mine, picking on the evils.
I want fear and dread in the game and potential loss of gear is the way to get there. It doesn't work for you, so fine. Play one of the myriad of pussified games that exist.
So that's how you see yourself? You're a tough guy? It's a computer game! lol
How does one be tough in a computer game?
I simply want fear and tension in the game. That's all.
When one attempts to solo a dragon because there is no reason not to, then that monster isn't exactly scary, is it? Remove the tension and that is pussification. Has nothing to do with being tough.
I mean, humans love to be scared and tense. That's why we have horror movies.
I'm playing Dead Space right now on Hard. When you die, you lose just a few minutes of actual game time and you die fast often. I don't WANT TO die when playing. I want to live. I do my best to NOT die. Its scary. Its tense. Is that a pussified game because the death penalty is pretty minor? Or, should I have to start from the begining of the chapter every time I die in order to feel better about myself? Would YOU start from the begining everytime even though the game doesn't FORCE YOU to?
Yes, humans love to be tense, true. However, MOST humans can see a MMO penalty for what it actually is...a time sink for failing. Is it anything else? Does the penalty for failing in a MMO equal anything other than a lot of wasted time? Because if you say otherwise, you're either really, REALLY ignorant or just clueless. The penalty in EVERY MMO is replaying something. You're either farming to recoup EXP or COIN and they both just equal TIME. How much one values their time is what determines an acceptable death penalty. If an hour of your time accomplishing nothing in the game, is a good use of it I guess your time doesnt' matter to you.
No, a stiff death penealty is exactly that. And what makes it painful and a thing to be avoided is how big a PITA it is. Simple. I've never claimed otherwise.
I'm glad you don't feel like dying in Dead Space, but I don't see why you'd have such fear if you have little to lose BY losing. So, to me, yes, that's a pussified game. How you can compare that to the loss of epic loot is beyond me.
But I'm the one ignorant and clueless. Ok, fine, whatever.
A comparison is not trying to prove they're equal. Buh Bye. Whatever is right. Its like trying to explain something to my kid=) Don't worry when you grow up, you'll understand that you don't need to be punished heavily to have fun in a videogame.
Right. A contentless reply like this means but one thing. You're out of ammo.
I never said that YOU should enjoy what I do. You've got a lot to learn about the human condition. We're not lemmings. There is no right or wrong about it. You don't want to even try to understand? Fine. Get in to politics, you should be pretty good.
A typical WoW player. They can't even compete with our stature. That's all they do Dog.. is simply belittle you and attack you because they never ever have any value to their retorts. But on the side against Josher, I have seen some good examples and support to those answers.
I want fear and dread in the game and potential loss of gear is the way to get there. It doesn't work for you, so fine. Play one of the myriad of pussified games that exist.
So that's how you see yourself? You're a tough guy? It's a computer game! lol
How does one be tough in a computer game?
I simply want fear and tension in the game. That's all.
When one attempts to solo a dragon because there is no reason not to, then that monster isn't exactly scary, is it? Remove the tension and that is pussification. Has nothing to do with being tough.
I mean, humans love to be scared and tense. That's why we have horror movies.
I'm playing Dead Space right now on Hard. When you die, you lose just a few minutes of actual game time and you die fast often. I don't WANT TO die when playing. I want to live. I do my best to NOT die. Its scary. Its tense. Is that a pussified game because the death penalty is pretty minor? Or, should I have to start from the begining of the chapter every time I die in order to feel better about myself? Would YOU start from the begining everytime even though the game doesn't FORCE YOU to?
Yes, humans love to be tense, true. However, MOST humans can see a MMO penalty for what it actually is...a time sink for failing. Is it anything else? Does the penalty for failing in a MMO equal anything other than a lot of wasted time? Because if you say otherwise, you're either really, REALLY ignorant or just clueless. The penalty in EVERY MMO is replaying something. You're either farming to recoup EXP or COIN and they both just equal TIME. How much one values their time is what determines an acceptable death penalty. If an hour of your time accomplishing nothing in the game, is a good use of it I guess your time doesnt' matter to you.
No, a stiff death penealty is exactly that. And what makes it painful and a thing to be avoided is how big a PITA it is. Simple. I've never claimed otherwise.
I'm glad you don't feel like dying in Dead Space, but I don't see why you'd have such fear if you have little to lose BY losing. So, to me, yes, that's a pussified game. How you can compare that to the loss of epic loot is beyond me.
But I'm the one ignorant and clueless. Ok, fine, whatever.
A comparison is not trying to prove they're equal. Buh Bye. Whatever is right. Its like trying to explain something to my kid=) Don't worry when you grow up, you'll understand that you don't need to be punished heavily to have fun in a videogame.
Right. A contentless reply like this means but one thing. You're out of ammo.
I never said that YOU should enjoy what I do. You've got a lot to learn about the human condition. We're not lemmings. There is no right or wrong about it. You don't want to even try to understand? Fine. Get in to politics, you should be pretty good.
No, the maturity level is hard to take with the terminology you use like lemmings and pussification. And the fact that you think your hardcore play style is some sort of justification for how "good " you are. Games you like are niche and don't appeal to most people. Older MMOs that had qualities you like had to change just to stay alive. In the end, if trains, heavy death penalties and other older features were still appealing, those older MMOs wouldn't have changed or had them eliminated them completely. So, in the end, all that matters are the games. Games that you like will be few and far between because your interests are too niche for any major developer to spend time on. So who's happier in the end? People like me who can see through pointless excessive penalties based on lots of time=)
Just curious. Is it the difficulty of the challenge or the punishment that matters, because according to you, it doesn't matter how difficult the challenge is, because if the penalty isn't hardcore enough, its just boring pussification=) ALl your enjoyment is based on how difficult the punishment is, not how FUN the game might actually be. Dead Space for example is a pretty damn good survival horror game, but by your own admission it must suck because the penalty for failure is just a few minutes or less. Mass Effect must suck as well, due to no major penalty. Dragon Age also was sucky. Every FPS must suck. 99% of games must suck because you can always save within a few minutes . Doesn't leave you that much to play;)
A typical WoW player. They can't even compete with our stature. That's all they do Dog.. is simply belittle you and attack you because they never ever have any value to their retorts. But on the side against Josher, I have seen some good examples and support to those answers.
I started with AO and DOAC, by the way as far as MMOs I could actually tolerate. WOW just happens to be a MMO I like. WHats typical is you thinking a "typical WOW player" is supposed to be some sort of insult=) Its like saying, "someone who enjoys MMOs". To that I say thanks=) Seems people who hate WOW are bitter and angry all the time. Sucks to be you guys.
Comments
No, it is simply this. A strict death penalty means that you are actually scared to die!
You don't know living (so to speak
) on the edge until you've done battle in a place that should you die, you might lose everything.
I've simply never had that tense feeling in ANY modern MMO.
So what if we fight 9 dragons at once? What's the worst thing that can happen? Death? Hahahaha! So what?
So the last 1/2 hr of clearing the dungeon that you might have to do all over again isn't penalty enough? You need another hour of mindless grinding on top of that to feel motivated, hehe? Its a game. I'm not scared of anything except wasting my time.
Some people don't feel scared or thrilled at the prospect of doing something boring for a while as a punishment while playing a videogame. It is entertainment after all. FUN? Although you get the feeling for some people the concept of entertainment means sitting on your a$$ doing repetititve actions for hours at a time. If you find it interesting to farm gold to rebuy some gear you lost or grinding EXP for an hour to make up for the last hour you just played, all the power to ya. Some of us realise its just a mindless time sink and a simple way to extend your game time. The penalty is NOT challenging. Its mind numbing. Better to let people learn and fail over and over again on the actual challenging task until you get it right, then grind away for hours when they fail. What exactly is challenging about farming for gold or EXP to make up for a death? You find that a good use of your time do ya? You think thats worth paying for?
No, it is simply this. A strict death penalty means that you are actually scared to die!
You don't know living (so to speak
) on the edge until you've done battle in a place that should you die, you might lose everything.
I've simply never had that tense feeling in ANY modern MMO.
So what if we fight 9 dragons at once? What's the worst thing that can happen? Death? Hahahaha! So what?
So the last 1/2 hr of clearing the dungeon that you might have to do all over again isn't penalty enough? You need another hour of mindless grinding on top of that to feel motivated, hehe? Its a game. I'm not scared of anything except wasting my time.
Some people don't feel scared or thrilled at the prospect of doing something boring for a while as a punishment while playing a videogame. It is entertainment after all. FUN? Although you get the feeling for some people the concept of entertainment means sitting on your a$$ doing repetititve actions for hours at a time. If you find it interesting to farm gold to rebuy some gear you lost or grinding EXP for an hour to make up for the last hour you just played, all the power to ya. Some of us realise its just a mindless time sink and a simple way to extend your game time. The penalty is NOT challenging. Its mind numbing. Better to let people learn and fail over and over again on the actual challenging task until you get it right, then grind away for hours when they fail. What exactly is challenging about farming for gold or EXP to make up for a death? You find that a good use of your time do ya? You think thats worth paying for?
Er... did you even READ my post?
I said nothing about any additional grind WHATSOEVER.
What I said was that there was no comparison on the tension front between death debt and LOSING ALL OF YOUR GEAR!
Did you see the losing all of your gear part? It has nothing to do with how much time is spent grinding. It has to do with feeling real fear when you play.
As I said, as it stands now, death is fairly meaningless.
If you wish to reply to a post, it might be a good idea to reply to what was actually said.
Just a thought.
I didn't have a favourite macro per se... but, I'll post one that irritated me to no end!
"Vender buy me GUARDS to protect me while I balance my bank account then recsu recdu to my destination."
Various macros similar to this eventually caused me to develop a nervous twitch every time I went into town. Being near a bank would literally fill your screen with garbage text all because people were too lazy to type "bank".
ROFL, seriously, that happened to me but was on the ride to Erudin from Qeynos. Took me 3 solid hours to get back to land.
Aside from the quotes, what about that stupid spell book that used to pop up when you med. Was like one killer of a static screensaver. Especially when you tried to med somewhere like in the middle of Stonebrunt.
Didn't they come out with a game to play in that book while you med after awhile... Can't remember its been so long. Also later in the game you could med without the book past 40? Man EQ was a fun game even though it was a harsh world back then...
I do really miss the trains, its was so funny watching a ton of people just running for there lifes.("Train to zone move it or lose it") Thats back way back when games were real and you would be scared for real when exploring, knowing that if you died you had a long walk back and then you might need help to get your body back. Time wasters some may say but it made the game worth playing instead of the insta-grad era we are in now-a-days. Play for 30mins get your shiny that everyone and there mom has. Oh well, it is what it is
No, it is simply this. A strict death penalty means that you are actually scared to die!
You don't know living (so to speak
) on the edge until you've done battle in a place that should you die, you might lose everything.
I've simply never had that tense feeling in ANY modern MMO.
So what if we fight 9 dragons at once? What's the worst thing that can happen? Death? Hahahaha! So what?
So the last 1/2 hr of clearing the dungeon that you might have to do all over again isn't penalty enough? You need another hour of mindless grinding on top of that to feel motivated, hehe? Its a game. I'm not scared of anything except wasting my time.
Some people don't feel scared or thrilled at the prospect of doing something boring for a while as a punishment while playing a videogame. It is entertainment after all. FUN? Although you get the feeling for some people the concept of entertainment means sitting on your a$$ doing repetititve actions for hours at a time. If you find it interesting to farm gold to rebuy some gear you lost or grinding EXP for an hour to make up for the last hour you just played, all the power to ya. Some of us realise its just a mindless time sink and a simple way to extend your game time. The penalty is NOT challenging. Its mind numbing. Better to let people learn and fail over and over again on the actual challenging task until you get it right, then grind away for hours when they fail. What exactly is challenging about farming for gold or EXP to make up for a death? You find that a good use of your time do ya? You think thats worth paying for?
Er... did you even READ my post?
I said nothing about any additional grind WHATSOEVER.
What I said was that there was no comparison on the tension front between death debt and LOSING ALL OF YOUR GEAR!
Did you see the losing all of your gear part? It has nothing to do with how much time is spent grinding. It has to do with feeling real fear when you play.
As I said, as it stands now, death is fairly meaningless.
If you wish to reply to a post, it might be a good idea to reply to what was actually said.
Just a thought.
And when you lose ALL YOUR GEAR, how pray tell do you buy new gear to replace it? Does that new gear just plop into your bank when you die? Nope. You have to go grind to get it again. SO, it might be a better idea to actually understand how game dynamics work and look at the big picture. Just a thought. Losing all your gear is just another mindless TIME SINK that is neither challenging nor productive or FUN. Maybe grinding for gear is fun for you. When you lose it, you have to grind something to replace it right? Otherwise, why get frightened at the thought of losing it?
No, it is simply this. A strict death penalty means that you are actually scared to die!
You don't know living (so to speak
) on the edge until you've done battle in a place that should you die, you might lose everything.
I've simply never had that tense feeling in ANY modern MMO.
So what if we fight 9 dragons at once? What's the worst thing that can happen? Death? Hahahaha! So what?
So the last 1/2 hr of clearing the dungeon that you might have to do all over again isn't penalty enough? You need another hour of mindless grinding on top of that to feel motivated, hehe? Its a game. I'm not scared of anything except wasting my time.
Some people don't feel scared or thrilled at the prospect of doing something boring for a while as a punishment while playing a videogame. It is entertainment after all. FUN? Although you get the feeling for some people the concept of entertainment means sitting on your a$$ doing repetititve actions for hours at a time. If you find it interesting to farm gold to rebuy some gear you lost or grinding EXP for an hour to make up for the last hour you just played, all the power to ya. Some of us realise its just a mindless time sink and a simple way to extend your game time. The penalty is NOT challenging. Its mind numbing. Better to let people learn and fail over and over again on the actual challenging task until you get it right, then grind away for hours when they fail. What exactly is challenging about farming for gold or EXP to make up for a death? You find that a good use of your time do ya? You think thats worth paying for?
Er... did you even READ my post?
I said nothing about any additional grind WHATSOEVER.
What I said was that there was no comparison on the tension front between death debt and LOSING ALL OF YOUR GEAR!
Did you see the losing all of your gear part? It has nothing to do with how much time is spent grinding. It has to do with feeling real fear when you play.
As I said, as it stands now, death is fairly meaningless.
If you wish to reply to a post, it might be a good idea to reply to what was actually said.
Just a thought.
And when you lose ALL YOUR GEAR, how pray tell do you buy new gear to replace it? Does that new gear just plop into your bank when you die? Nope. You have to go grind to get it again. SO, it might be a better idea to actually understand how game dynamics work and look at the big picture. Just a thought. Losing all your gear is just another mindless TIME SINK that is neither challenging nor productive or FUN. Maybe grinding for gear is fun for you. When you lose it, you have to grind something to replace it right? Otherwise, why get frightened at the thought of losing it?
Well, I suppose that we each have different ideas about what is fun.
It is REALLY fun to have fear and tension. It is really cool to not even want to enter a place because you know you might die, and worse, that if you do you might have trouble getting your stuff back.
If you lost all of your gear... oh well. That's the price you pay to get the fun.
Of course losing your gear was not a fun thing by itself. That's WHY it was scary.
Look, I don't begrudge you and your choices. Only saying that other forms of entertainment cater to a lot of seperate niches.
I want fear and dread in the game and potential loss of gear is the way to get there. It doesn't work for you, so fine. Play one of the myriad of pussified games that exist.
I was always recieving /tells to go summon corpses from somewhere. It got so bad at one point the only way i could actually play was to go /anon and /RP just so i could lvl lol...ah the good old days lol
So that's how you see yourself? You're a tough guy? It's a computer game! lol
Well shave my back and call me an elf! -- Oghren
So that's how you see yourself? You're a tough guy? It's a computer game! lol
How does one be tough in a computer game?
I simply want fear and tension in the game. That's all.
When one attempts to solo a dragon because there is no reason not to, then that monster isn't exactly scary, is it? Remove the tension and that is pussification. Has nothing to do with being tough.
I mean, humans love to be scared and tense. That's why we have horror movies.
Originally posted by Josher
And when you lose ALL YOUR GEAR, how pray tell do you buy new gear to replace it? Does that new gear just plop into your bank when you die? Nope. You have to go grind to get it again. SO, it might be a better idea to actually understand how game dynamics work and look at the big picture. Just a thought. Losing all your gear is just another mindless TIME SINK that is neither challenging nor productive or FUN. Maybe grinding for gear is fun for you. When you lose it, you have to grind something to replace it right? Otherwise, why get frightened at the thought of losing it?
Why do you play MMOs? I think you might enjoy single player games more.
Bah, if you played EQ, you hate on it, because you couldn't survive in that game. Do you comprehend that sometimes when you suffer you learn from it? You don't make your mistake twice. Go spew your venom elsewhere WoW fanboy!
Oh, it's funny that you complain about time sinks ect, when WoW was way more of a grind then EQ was. WoW is a second job with a bunch of asshats that fill the community. You don't understand what an Adventure is, EQ was an adventure. Don't knock something if you never experienced both sides of the coin!
I did personal attack you, because I am sick of these WoW fanboys on this game, who just spew their venom when they don't even know. They attack everyone else and not even stay on topic with the post nor anyone they reply too. Sorry man, you just fit in with the stereotypical WoW player and yes I know you're a WoW homer. /end rant
No, it is simply this. A strict death penalty means that you are actually scared to die!
You don't know living (so to speak
) on the edge until you've done battle in a place that should you die, you might lose everything.
I've simply never had that tense feeling in ANY modern MMO.
So what if we fight 9 dragins at once? What's the worst thing that can happen? Death? Hahahaha! So what?
mm aion is the closest thing for now .nobody want to die in that game ,since die mean you have grind all that xp back for 3 or 4 hour
3 or 4 hours of PITA is not even close to losing all of your gear.
Plane of Fear Break In or the Rathe Counsil Raid.. given the best gear with a full raid, a full EQ playerbase would slaughter both raids with minimal to moderate gear. Why? Because that game is one of very few who produced good players.
Ahhh. Your topic text brings back memories of getting killed by the train at the zone line in Garlaige Citadel before I even finished zoning in.
lol, that has happened to me so many times in Karnor's Castle
Anyone remeber doing that Coldbone Satchel Quest in Velious! Now that's a quest line!
No, it is simply this. A strict death penalty means that you are actually scared to die!
You don't know living (so to speak
) on the edge until you've done battle in a place that should you die, you might lose everything.
I've simply never had that tense feeling in ANY modern MMO.
So what if we fight 9 dragons at once? What's the worst thing that can happen? Death? Hahahaha! So what?
So the last 1/2 hr of clearing the dungeon that you might have to do all over again isn't penalty enough? You need another hour of mindless grinding on top of that to feel motivated, hehe? Its a game. I'm not scared of anything except wasting my time.
Some people don't feel scared or thrilled at the prospect of doing something boring for a while as a punishment while playing a videogame. It is entertainment after all. FUN? Although you get the feeling for some people the concept of entertainment means sitting on your a$$ doing repetititve actions for hours at a time. If you find it interesting to farm gold to rebuy some gear you lost or grinding EXP for an hour to make up for the last hour you just played, all the power to ya. Some of us realise its just a mindless time sink and a simple way to extend your game time. The penalty is NOT challenging. Its mind numbing. Better to let people learn and fail over and over again on the actual challenging task until you get it right, then grind away for hours when they fail. What exactly is challenging about farming for gold or EXP to make up for a death? You find that a good use of your time do ya? You think thats worth paying for?
Er... did you even READ my post?
I said nothing about any additional grind WHATSOEVER.
What I said was that there was no comparison on the tension front between death debt and LOSING ALL OF YOUR GEAR!
Did you see the losing all of your gear part? It has nothing to do with how much time is spent grinding. It has to do with feeling real fear when you play.
As I said, as it stands now, death is fairly meaningless.
If you wish to reply to a post, it might be a good idea to reply to what was actually said.
Just a thought.
And when you lose ALL YOUR GEAR, how pray tell do you buy new gear to replace it? Does that new gear just plop into your bank when you die? Nope. You have to go grind to get it again. SO, it might be a better idea to actually understand how game dynamics work and look at the big picture. Just a thought. Losing all your gear is just another mindless TIME SINK that is neither challenging nor productive or FUN. Maybe grinding for gear is fun for you. When you lose it, you have to grind something to replace it right? Otherwise, why get frightened at the thought of losing it?
You never played Everquest 1 did you?
Imagine your raiding a dungeon, perhaps Chardok and your raid wipes right at the very bottom, you all appear at your bind spot naked, your gear is now currently on your corpse at the bottom of said dungeon.
You have 3 options, option one is to get your spare gear out of the bank and fight your way back down there, could take several hours and you might just wipe again when you get to the bottom, so pretty risky.
Option 2 is similar to option one but you go down in Mage summoned gear, it's crap but it's summoned and costs only mana, but you still have to fight mobs to get your old corpse back.
Option 3 is to grab a necro and get a crap load of coffins (which at the time where epxensive) and summon the corpses back to the Dungeon zone line.
Now all of this takes time no matter what way you look at it, it might have taken you 4 hrs to get to the bottom of the dungeon in the first place and a further 2 hrs of sorting yourself out to get all the bodies back.
Now the reason the old EQ1 death penalty was so good is becuase it didn't make you go out and get more gear to replace the old stuff on your corpse, no, what it did was make you so focused on getting your old gear back that it was the worse thing in the entire game to just let your corpse rot away with everything on it, in fact I never heard of anyone ever leaving a fully equipped corpse behind, every piece of equipment you raided for was cherished and you had sweated blood over getting the damn things, you sure as hell weren't going to leave them behind.
Now ofc EQ1 has moved on alot since those days, a shame really as it's taken alot of the edge out of the game, dying is now as meaningless as it is in 99 percent of games,
So that's how you see yourself? You're a tough guy? It's a computer game! lol
How does one be tough in a computer game?
I simply want fear and tension in the game. That's all.
When one attempts to solo a dragon because there is no reason not to, then that monster isn't exactly scary, is it? Remove the tension and that is pussification. Has nothing to do with being tough.
I mean, humans love to be scared and tense. That's why we have horror movies.
I'm playing Dead Space right now on Hard. When you die, you lose just a few minutes of actual game time and you die fast often. I don't WANT TO die when playing. I want to live. I do my best to NOT die. Its scary. Its tense. Is that a pussified game because the death penalty is pretty minor? Or, should I have to start from the begining of the chapter every time I die in order to feel better about myself? Would YOU start from the begining everytime even though the game doesn't FORCE YOU to?
Yes, humans love to be tense, true. However, MOST humans can see a MMO penalty for what it actually is...a time sink for failing. Is it anything else? Does the penalty for failing in a MMO equal anything other than a lot of wasted time? Because if you say otherwise, you're either really, REALLY ignorant or just clueless. The penalty in EVERY MMO is replaying something. You're either farming to recoup EXP or COIN and they both just equal TIME. How much one values their time is what determines an acceptable death penalty. If an hour of your time accomplishing nothing in the game, is a good use of it I guess your time doesnt' matter to you.
No, it is simply this. A strict death penalty means that you are actually scared to die!
You don't know living (so to speak
) on the edge until you've done battle in a place that should you die, you might lose everything.
I've simply never had that tense feeling in ANY modern MMO.
So what if we fight 9 dragons at once? What's the worst thing that can happen? Death? Hahahaha! So what?
So the last 1/2 hr of clearing the dungeon that you might have to do all over again isn't penalty enough? You need another hour of mindless grinding on top of that to feel motivated, hehe? Its a game. I'm not scared of anything except wasting my time.
Some people don't feel scared or thrilled at the prospect of doing something boring for a while as a punishment while playing a videogame. It is entertainment after all. FUN? Although you get the feeling for some people the concept of entertainment means sitting on your a$$ doing repetititve actions for hours at a time. If you find it interesting to farm gold to rebuy some gear you lost or grinding EXP for an hour to make up for the last hour you just played, all the power to ya. Some of us realise its just a mindless time sink and a simple way to extend your game time. The penalty is NOT challenging. Its mind numbing. Better to let people learn and fail over and over again on the actual challenging task until you get it right, then grind away for hours when they fail. What exactly is challenging about farming for gold or EXP to make up for a death? You find that a good use of your time do ya? You think thats worth paying for?
Er... did you even READ my post?
I said nothing about any additional grind WHATSOEVER.
What I said was that there was no comparison on the tension front between death debt and LOSING ALL OF YOUR GEAR!
Did you see the losing all of your gear part? It has nothing to do with how much time is spent grinding. It has to do with feeling real fear when you play.
As I said, as it stands now, death is fairly meaningless.
If you wish to reply to a post, it might be a good idea to reply to what was actually said.
Just a thought.
And when you lose ALL YOUR GEAR, how pray tell do you buy new gear to replace it? Does that new gear just plop into your bank when you die? Nope. You have to go grind to get it again. SO, it might be a better idea to actually understand how game dynamics work and look at the big picture. Just a thought. Losing all your gear is just another mindless TIME SINK that is neither challenging nor productive or FUN. Maybe grinding for gear is fun for you. When you lose it, you have to grind something to replace it right? Otherwise, why get frightened at the thought of losing it?
You never played Everquest 1 did you?
Imagine your raiding a dungeon, perhaps Chardok and your raid wipes right at the very bottom, you all appear at your bind spot naked, your gear is now currently on your corpse at the bottom of said dungeon.
You have 3 options, option one is to get your spare gear out of the bank and fight your way back down there, could take several hours and you might just wipe again when you get to the bottom, so pretty risky.
Option 2 is similar to option one but you go down in Mage summoned gear, it's crap but it's summoned and costs only mana, but you still have to fight mobs to get your old corpse back.
Option 3 is to grab a necro and get a crap load of coffins (which at the time where epxensive) and summon the corpses back to the Dungeon zone line.
Now all of this takes time no matter what way you look at it, it might have taken you 4 hrs to get to the bottom of the dungeon in the first place and a further 2 hrs of sorting yourself out to get all the bodies back.
Now the reason the old EQ1 death penalty was so good is becuase it didn't make you go out and get more gear to replace the old stuff on your corpse, no, what it did was make you so focused on getting your old gear back that it was the worse thing in the entire game to just let your corpse rot away with everything on it, in fact I never heard of anyone ever leaving a fully equipped corpse behind, every piece of equipment you raided for was cherished and you had sweated blood over getting the damn things, you sure as hell weren't going to leave them behind.
Now ofc EQ1 has moved on alot since those days, a shame really as it's taken alot of the edge out of the game, dying is now as meaningless as it is in 99 percent of games,
No, I had a life=) EQ wasn't exactly something FUN to do. But I watched my roommates play every night after work. Wasting hours of time fetching my corpse was not what I called fun. Glorifying your memories doesn't make it any more fun. The fact no MMOs have naked corpse runs any more should be proof enough just how bad a mechanic it was. The fact EQ had to adjust its penalty just to hold onto the scraps of players it has left is also proof people can see through the pointlessness of those kinds of penalties.
I'm not saying have no penalty. 5-10 minutes should be acceptable. Hours? If you like chains and whips=)
So that's how you see yourself? You're a tough guy? It's a computer game! lol
How does one be tough in a computer game?
I simply want fear and tension in the game. That's all.
When one attempts to solo a dragon because there is no reason not to, then that monster isn't exactly scary, is it? Remove the tension and that is pussification. Has nothing to do with being tough.
I mean, humans love to be scared and tense. That's why we have horror movies.
I'm playing Dead Space right now on Hard. When you die, you lose just a few minutes of actual game time and you die fast often. I don't WANT TO die when playing. I want to live. I do my best to NOT die. Its scary. Its tense. Is that a pussified game because the death penalty is pretty minor? Or, should I have to start from the begining of the chapter every time I die in order to feel better about myself? Would YOU start from the begining everytime even though the game doesn't FORCE YOU to?
Yes, humans love to be tense, true. However, MOST humans can see a MMO penalty for what it actually is...a time sink for failing. Is it anything else? Does the penalty for failing in a MMO equal anything other than a lot of wasted time? Because if you say otherwise, you're either really, REALLY ignorant or just clueless. The penalty in EVERY MMO is replaying something. You're either farming to recoup EXP or COIN and they both just equal TIME. How much one values their time is what determines an acceptable death penalty. If an hour of your time accomplishing nothing in the game, is a good use of it I guess your time doesnt' matter to you.
No, a stiff death penealty is exactly that. And what makes it painful and a thing to be avoided is how big a PITA it is. Simple. I've never claimed otherwise.
I'm glad you don't feel like dying in Dead Space, but I don't see why you'd have such fear if you have little to lose BY losing. So, to me, yes, that's a pussified game. How you can compare that to the loss of epic loot is beyond me.
But I'm the one ignorant and clueless. Ok, fine, whatever.
So that's how you see yourself? You're a tough guy? It's a computer game! lol
How does one be tough in a computer game?
I simply want fear and tension in the game. That's all.
When one attempts to solo a dragon because there is no reason not to, then that monster isn't exactly scary, is it? Remove the tension and that is pussification. Has nothing to do with being tough.
I mean, humans love to be scared and tense. That's why we have horror movies.
I'm playing Dead Space right now on Hard. When you die, you lose just a few minutes of actual game time and you die fast often. I don't WANT TO die when playing. I want to live. I do my best to NOT die. Its scary. Its tense. Is that a pussified game because the death penalty is pretty minor? Or, should I have to start from the begining of the chapter every time I die in order to feel better about myself? Would YOU start from the begining everytime even though the game doesn't FORCE YOU to?
Yes, humans love to be tense, true. However, MOST humans can see a MMO penalty for what it actually is...a time sink for failing. Is it anything else? Does the penalty for failing in a MMO equal anything other than a lot of wasted time? Because if you say otherwise, you're either really, REALLY ignorant or just clueless. The penalty in EVERY MMO is replaying something. You're either farming to recoup EXP or COIN and they both just equal TIME. How much one values their time is what determines an acceptable death penalty. If an hour of your time accomplishing nothing in the game, is a good use of it I guess your time doesnt' matter to you.
No, a stiff death penealty is exactly that. And what makes it painful and a thing to be avoided is how big a PITA it is. Simple. I've never claimed otherwise.
I'm glad you don't feel like dying in Dead Space, but I don't see why you'd have such fear if you have little to lose BY losing. So, to me, yes, that's a pussified game. How you can compare that to the loss of epic loot is beyond me.
But I'm the one ignorant and clueless. Ok, fine, whatever.
A comparison is not trying to prove they're equal. Buh Bye. Whatever is right. Its like trying to explain something to my kid=) Don't worry when you grow up, you'll understand that you don't need to be punished heavily to have fun in a videogame.
So that's how you see yourself? You're a tough guy? It's a computer game! lol
How does one be tough in a computer game?
I simply want fear and tension in the game. That's all.
When one attempts to solo a dragon because there is no reason not to, then that monster isn't exactly scary, is it? Remove the tension and that is pussification. Has nothing to do with being tough.
I mean, humans love to be scared and tense. That's why we have horror movies.
I'm playing Dead Space right now on Hard. When you die, you lose just a few minutes of actual game time and you die fast often. I don't WANT TO die when playing. I want to live. I do my best to NOT die. Its scary. Its tense. Is that a pussified game because the death penalty is pretty minor? Or, should I have to start from the begining of the chapter every time I die in order to feel better about myself? Would YOU start from the begining everytime even though the game doesn't FORCE YOU to?
Yes, humans love to be tense, true. However, MOST humans can see a MMO penalty for what it actually is...a time sink for failing. Is it anything else? Does the penalty for failing in a MMO equal anything other than a lot of wasted time? Because if you say otherwise, you're either really, REALLY ignorant or just clueless. The penalty in EVERY MMO is replaying something. You're either farming to recoup EXP or COIN and they both just equal TIME. How much one values their time is what determines an acceptable death penalty. If an hour of your time accomplishing nothing in the game, is a good use of it I guess your time doesnt' matter to you.
When I died in EQ and lost hours of progress I would get a bit upset but I never saw it as a waste of my time. I do not measure how I spend my time solely based on the games mechanics for progression such as leveling and gear, but I measure it mostly on if I had fun interacting and socializing with the community. I would always have fun making new friends and just exploring what the world had to offer.
To me an MMO is more of a social experience then a gaming experience. Inconvenient features such as death penalty, long travel time, and other such features help contribute to a world you are afraid to die in. This in turn causes people to depend on each other for survival or services to make living in that world a little easier. This is what I like in my MMO experience, because the community as a whole becomes better.
I think you are strictly looking at it in a gaming sense and quantify your time solely based on the games built in mechanics of progression. If that's your view, then yeah those mechanics are all pointless time wasters and that's fine for you and the majority. However, to berate the players who enjoy these features is narrow minded to say the least.
So that's how you see yourself? You're a tough guy? It's a computer game! lol
How does one be tough in a computer game?
I simply want fear and tension in the game. That's all.
When one attempts to solo a dragon because there is no reason not to, then that monster isn't exactly scary, is it? Remove the tension and that is pussification. Has nothing to do with being tough.
I mean, humans love to be scared and tense. That's why we have horror movies.
I'm playing Dead Space right now on Hard. When you die, you lose just a few minutes of actual game time and you die fast often. I don't WANT TO die when playing. I want to live. I do my best to NOT die. Its scary. Its tense. Is that a pussified game because the death penalty is pretty minor? Or, should I have to start from the begining of the chapter every time I die in order to feel better about myself? Would YOU start from the begining everytime even though the game doesn't FORCE YOU to?
Yes, humans love to be tense, true. However, MOST humans can see a MMO penalty for what it actually is...a time sink for failing. Is it anything else? Does the penalty for failing in a MMO equal anything other than a lot of wasted time? Because if you say otherwise, you're either really, REALLY ignorant or just clueless. The penalty in EVERY MMO is replaying something. You're either farming to recoup EXP or COIN and they both just equal TIME. How much one values their time is what determines an acceptable death penalty. If an hour of your time accomplishing nothing in the game, is a good use of it I guess your time doesnt' matter to you.
No, a stiff death penealty is exactly that. And what makes it painful and a thing to be avoided is how big a PITA it is. Simple. I've never claimed otherwise.
I'm glad you don't feel like dying in Dead Space, but I don't see why you'd have such fear if you have little to lose BY losing. So, to me, yes, that's a pussified game. How you can compare that to the loss of epic loot is beyond me.
But I'm the one ignorant and clueless. Ok, fine, whatever.
A comparison is not trying to prove they're equal. Buh Bye. Whatever is right. Its like trying to explain something to my kid=) Don't worry when you grow up, you'll understand that you don't need to be punished heavily to have fun in a videogame.
Right. A contentless reply like this means but one thing. You're out of ammo.
I never said that YOU should enjoy what I do. You've got a lot to learn about the human condition. We're not lemmings. There is no right or wrong about it. You don't want to even try to understand? Fine. Get in to politics, you should be pretty good.
Wow lots of memories, I loved EQ back in the day but looking back in the time I put into the game back then there is no way I could play it today due to work etc, I was really time consuming but I'm glad I got to play one of the best mmo's ever at the start/peak.
Apart from all the leveling, raids etc, I used to love chilling out at the EC tunnel, some of the patter there was really funny at times and Sgt Slate was always a favorite of mine, picking on the evils.
So that's how you see yourself? You're a tough guy? It's a computer game! lol
How does one be tough in a computer game?
I simply want fear and tension in the game. That's all.
When one attempts to solo a dragon because there is no reason not to, then that monster isn't exactly scary, is it? Remove the tension and that is pussification. Has nothing to do with being tough.
I mean, humans love to be scared and tense. That's why we have horror movies.
I'm playing Dead Space right now on Hard. When you die, you lose just a few minutes of actual game time and you die fast often. I don't WANT TO die when playing. I want to live. I do my best to NOT die. Its scary. Its tense. Is that a pussified game because the death penalty is pretty minor? Or, should I have to start from the begining of the chapter every time I die in order to feel better about myself? Would YOU start from the begining everytime even though the game doesn't FORCE YOU to?
Yes, humans love to be tense, true. However, MOST humans can see a MMO penalty for what it actually is...a time sink for failing. Is it anything else? Does the penalty for failing in a MMO equal anything other than a lot of wasted time? Because if you say otherwise, you're either really, REALLY ignorant or just clueless. The penalty in EVERY MMO is replaying something. You're either farming to recoup EXP or COIN and they both just equal TIME. How much one values their time is what determines an acceptable death penalty. If an hour of your time accomplishing nothing in the game, is a good use of it I guess your time doesnt' matter to you.
No, a stiff death penealty is exactly that. And what makes it painful and a thing to be avoided is how big a PITA it is. Simple. I've never claimed otherwise.
I'm glad you don't feel like dying in Dead Space, but I don't see why you'd have such fear if you have little to lose BY losing. So, to me, yes, that's a pussified game. How you can compare that to the loss of epic loot is beyond me.
But I'm the one ignorant and clueless. Ok, fine, whatever.
A comparison is not trying to prove they're equal. Buh Bye. Whatever is right. Its like trying to explain something to my kid=) Don't worry when you grow up, you'll understand that you don't need to be punished heavily to have fun in a videogame.
Right. A contentless reply like this means but one thing. You're out of ammo.
I never said that YOU should enjoy what I do. You've got a lot to learn about the human condition. We're not lemmings. There is no right or wrong about it. You don't want to even try to understand? Fine. Get in to politics, you should be pretty good.
A typical WoW player. They can't even compete with our stature. That's all they do Dog.. is simply belittle you and attack you because they never ever have any value to their retorts. But on the side against Josher, I have seen some good examples and support to those answers.
So that's how you see yourself? You're a tough guy? It's a computer game! lol
How does one be tough in a computer game?
I simply want fear and tension in the game. That's all.
When one attempts to solo a dragon because there is no reason not to, then that monster isn't exactly scary, is it? Remove the tension and that is pussification. Has nothing to do with being tough.
I mean, humans love to be scared and tense. That's why we have horror movies.
I'm playing Dead Space right now on Hard. When you die, you lose just a few minutes of actual game time and you die fast often. I don't WANT TO die when playing. I want to live. I do my best to NOT die. Its scary. Its tense. Is that a pussified game because the death penalty is pretty minor? Or, should I have to start from the begining of the chapter every time I die in order to feel better about myself? Would YOU start from the begining everytime even though the game doesn't FORCE YOU to?
Yes, humans love to be tense, true. However, MOST humans can see a MMO penalty for what it actually is...a time sink for failing. Is it anything else? Does the penalty for failing in a MMO equal anything other than a lot of wasted time? Because if you say otherwise, you're either really, REALLY ignorant or just clueless. The penalty in EVERY MMO is replaying something. You're either farming to recoup EXP or COIN and they both just equal TIME. How much one values their time is what determines an acceptable death penalty. If an hour of your time accomplishing nothing in the game, is a good use of it I guess your time doesnt' matter to you.
No, a stiff death penealty is exactly that. And what makes it painful and a thing to be avoided is how big a PITA it is. Simple. I've never claimed otherwise.
I'm glad you don't feel like dying in Dead Space, but I don't see why you'd have such fear if you have little to lose BY losing. So, to me, yes, that's a pussified game. How you can compare that to the loss of epic loot is beyond me.
But I'm the one ignorant and clueless. Ok, fine, whatever.
A comparison is not trying to prove they're equal. Buh Bye. Whatever is right. Its like trying to explain something to my kid=) Don't worry when you grow up, you'll understand that you don't need to be punished heavily to have fun in a videogame.
Right. A contentless reply like this means but one thing. You're out of ammo.
I never said that YOU should enjoy what I do. You've got a lot to learn about the human condition. We're not lemmings. There is no right or wrong about it. You don't want to even try to understand? Fine. Get in to politics, you should be pretty good.
No, the maturity level is hard to take with the terminology you use like lemmings and pussification. And the fact that you think your hardcore play style is some sort of justification for how "good " you are. Games you like are niche and don't appeal to most people. Older MMOs that had qualities you like had to change just to stay alive. In the end, if trains, heavy death penalties and other older features were still appealing, those older MMOs wouldn't have changed or had them eliminated them completely. So, in the end, all that matters are the games. Games that you like will be few and far between because your interests are too niche for any major developer to spend time on. So who's happier in the end? People like me who can see through pointless excessive penalties based on lots of time=)
Just curious. Is it the difficulty of the challenge or the punishment that matters, because according to you, it doesn't matter how difficult the challenge is, because if the penalty isn't hardcore enough, its just boring pussification=) ALl your enjoyment is based on how difficult the punishment is, not how FUN the game might actually be. Dead Space for example is a pretty damn good survival horror game, but by your own admission it must suck because the penalty for failure is just a few minutes or less. Mass Effect must suck as well, due to no major penalty. Dragon Age also was sucky. Every FPS must suck. 99% of games must suck because you can always save within a few minutes . Doesn't leave you that much to play;)
A typical WoW player. They can't even compete with our stature. That's all they do Dog.. is simply belittle you and attack you because they never ever have any value to their retorts. But on the side against Josher, I have seen some good examples and support to those answers.
I started with AO and DOAC, by the way as far as MMOs I could actually tolerate. WOW just happens to be a MMO I like. WHats typical is you thinking a "typical WOW player" is supposed to be some sort of insult=) Its like saying, "someone who enjoys MMOs". To that I say thanks=) Seems people who hate WOW are bitter and angry all the time. Sucks to be you guys.