I honestly get tired of the " Its the Recession" waggle.... I stil have a hard time believing MMO gaming was hit at all. The only company I can really see people pointing to, to solidify the claim is EA/Mythic and I honestly think that was not a recession based layoff.
I have many out-of-work friends, acquaintances, and former co-workers who were laid off from companies not named EA or Mythic who would beg to disagree.
It was a bad gaming season all around, not just in the Mmo field. Which I still think had nothing to do with the recession. Its been a year full of flops, and very few sucesses on every platform. Are the layoffs a direct result of the recession, which would imply consumers are not buying games like they did prior to... or is it that combined with a bad year of games being unleashed, bad press.. and then that the looming " Theres a Recession " scared the companies into cutting their numbers?
I'd like to see data on game sales across the platforms to support a " The Recession caused gaming developers to cut employes" if you understand what I mean.
Generally people are questioning whether its a recession proof industry, the article lists a few key reasons why sales are down that don't begin with R and end with the dust bowl .
I see the " Its the Recession" as a clever scapegoat... alot of business's and people find it very easy to just jump on the wagon... but demonstrating with data the corelation they won't do. For the gaming industry it seems pretty open and shut :
1. Few large sucesses
2. Reduced prices on all systems, games, and accessories ( Remember the prices were all higher last year, so you may be selling the same amount.. but the sales figures will show a stark drop)
3. Few guaranteed hits being released. ( Madden and MW:2 being the exceptions )
Combine all that with a climate ( The Recession ) and it seems easy enough to see why people were laid off. Did the Recession directly cause the layoffs, or did they simply force the hands of the companies?
I'd go on .. but I am in danger of blaming the waggle of "Its a Recession" on everything... Panic does horrid things... if the media states we are in a Recession, get ready.. because if we arn't .. we will be soon.
I just finished a contract in a totally recession-proof company (electricity industry). They did not lose money at all because of the downturn. They literally can't. But people lost their jobs regardless, because management had to be seen to be "doing something about the recession" by chopping budgets and pushing necessary, time- and money-saving projects back.
No managers lost their jobs of course, just employees. The one I knew personally that lost her job was an awesome worker, respected and liked at the senior manager level, and was easily head and shoulders above the "more experienced" (longer tenure) members of her department. But her projects were taken away by the senior people when theirs were pushed back or cancelled, so she had to exit the company.
However, like all awesome people, after a short time of regrouping, she now has a better job, is kicking butt at it, and has just referred me to them as well
I just finished a contract in a totally recession-proof company (electricity industry). They did not lose money at all because of the downturn. They literally can't. But people lost their jobs regardless, because management had to be seen to be "doing something about the recession" by chopping budgets and pushing necessary, time- and money-saving projects back.
No managers lost their jobs of course, just employees. The one I knew personally that lost her job was an awesome worker, respected and liked at the senior manager level, and was easily head and shoulders above the "more experienced" (longer tenure) members of her department. But her projects were taken away by the senior people when theirs were pushed back or cancelled, so she had to exit the company.
However, like all awesome people, after a short time of regrouping, she now has a better job, is kicking butt at it, and has just referred me to them as well
lol, that's why I lost my job. Even though our sales shrunk by 10% our future pipeline was solid and the general health of the company was very good.
So most of our office got laid off.
good times.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Not much to crow about in this industry this year. I have found nothing worth subscribing to. Next year does not look much better at present.
I think the industry, at least the MMO part of it is undergoing a realignment. The me too designs released with half finished games has made many of us highly suspectful of any new releases. Next year we are looking at another half finished game releasing in STO. Don't these developers ever learn?
I just wish someone would put the fun back into MMO's.
The state of the economy makes the near future pretty dismal for gaming, as well. In the next 1-2 years the short cycle of browser development will mean major companies (SOE) will be putting out applications for this format. Much less risky to capitalize on a current trend than to put out something that tries to break the mold.
Microtransactions, cash services, etc. will be used to increase margin. Lots of projects will dry up. It's not going to be pretty.
While I may agree that the economy was a contributing factor, I have to think quality has as much, if not more, to do with companies not seeing the figures they want to see.
This year was especially rife with big name, big hype games that offered little for players to stick around after their initial 30 days. The quality was not there. The genre is maturing and so are the players, but the development houses on the whole seem to be regressing. The keep on regurgitating the same crap in different IP wrappers with nothing innovative to speak of. The result is players who have many choices that will not stick around for your game if it stinks or is the same as the game they left. WAR, AoC, CO, Alganon are all examples of this in action.
Like many others here, I usually spend quite a bit on this genre in any given year but the last few years I Have not spent anything close to what I have in the past because quite frankly, not much has piqued my interest.
Einherjar_LC says: WTB the true successor to UO or Asheron's Call pst!
Might as well put 2010, 2011, 2012 and onward on your list because game designers lack creativity any longer and all they wish to do is give us the same old, same old, or poorly designed and implemented games. It's all about how fast and simple they can push a game to market and or how some indie company pushes out a crap game that they hype up with tons of promises of innovative game play that they cannot deliver on. Just look at games like DF, MO and FE. Crappy animations, crappy graphics, crappy game play, crappy MOB AI, crappy combat, crappy worlds. Though they tried, they failed miserably. Better luck next time. We need game designers that love their game enough to make it truly epic. The old school designers of Asheron's Call, now they loved their game and it showed it. Same goes for Blizzard and how they did WoW and payed attention to details. old school DAoC with it's innovative RvR. What we need is designers like these that have focus and creativity to design a game that brings back the magic that these older games once had. What we're getting is garbage any more and I refuse to pay for it.
This. But they don't have to have creativity anymore as they aren't designing MMO's as deep worlds rich in lore and in things players can do (and do, 50 different ways to PvE combat or PvP combat is NOT the answer). They are making shallow arcade-like games.
Somewhere along the line the Quake and Halo folks seemed to have taken over and the table-top dungeon Masters have been kicked out. Maybe it was due to all the whining about "combat is boring" on various forums that allowed this regime change but one thing is for sure:
Combat isn't king.
There's a serious need to get back to world building in an early TSR, Margaret Weis/Tracy Hickman storytelling, D&D yesteryear way than this modern wave of so-called world builders who don't seem to as the questions "why" and "how" when putting things into a world.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
I can believe there have been job losses due to recession, but at the same time I have to say, as a customer, that the games coming out these days are not very good. There is no originality, no support after the sale, and in the case of MMOs, the developers really have no clue path before a release and are easily swayed into making bad game-breaking decisions.
Take Champions Online for example. That game is pretty good as far as mechanics of combat, but its boring as hell. Its like playing a single player game because the way the game was designed doesn't support a community very well. People sign on in droves, hoping for the next best thing and suddenly everyone is suprised when the subscriptions fall off drastically after a month. The same day that game was released they decided to make sweeping changes because the game was too easy? Huh?
Same goes for Warhammer Online, which I know wasn't released this year, but has suffered a seriously decline of players. Now the game is free for everyone level 10 and below and they ripped apart tier 1 to do it. I could go on and on about the engine and other complaints I have with the game, but whats the point? I'm not here to complain about Warhammer Online.
There really isn't much in quality MMOs to choose from these days. WoW has been out forever and is really just an endless grind. Sure its fun, but after so many years people are looking for something different. Game designers and publishers need to stop complaining about the economy and start getting innovative again. I do feel bad that some of you lost your jobs due to the economy, but seriously, some of you lost your job because you are not making good games. You have lost the vision of gaming and its more about the almighty dollar (like everything else in this country) than providing a lasting and unique gaming experience.
Take RTS games for example. When is enough going to be enough? Where is the innovation in this category? Nearly all of them are copies of StarCraft, Warcraft or Command and Conquer with different graphics.
Games have been seriously dumbed down for the console market. Now, instead of PC games being released for the PC first, we have to deal with games designed to work on a console and ported to our precious PCs. You know what? I'm not going to buy a game like that. Game publishers - I will move on to something else. Bring me Ultima. Bring me Fallout 1 and 2. How about Wing Commander? Civilization? Master of Magic? Master of Orion? The list goes on and on, as the quality of our PC games goes down and the graphics go up.
FPS games.. How long will you idiots release games without co-op? Surely you don't think we can sit around shooting eachother forever? What do you think made Doom so popular? It wasn't the deathmatch. It was good for a laugh, but it got old. Playing Doom with my family wondering when that imp would jump out, now that was fun.
Listen to your customers - make innovative games and put in features we ask for. Then you might have more jobs because your games will sell. Or you could make another failed wow-clone because you listened to some suit who doesn't know jack about gaming.
Thats no it at all, I won't pretend to be the end-all say on the topic. I just don't see the points adding up... its a typical " The Recession" scapegoat as I see it.
I think both arguments are right. Because in a recessed economy consumers will take into account how important their dollars are more-so than when the economy is doing good. When people shop for things they are more tentative to what they are buying and why. And the quality over quantity stands out...
So people looking for a game will sit back and read reviews and check out demos more-so now and decide weather or not to buy a game. I've noticed myself and other coworkers doing so as well. So unless it's doing great with reviews most people are not impulse buying games as much now as they may have did in the past. Because I know I used to just buy a decently cheap game just because i was bored and didn't have anything else to play and was waiting for the next big thing from bioware or something like that. but now i'd rather download one of the many f2p mmos out there and kill time or replay something i've already played or download extra content for my already great games than get a new random game to check out.
Or maybe people are just getting fed up with all the sub-par games that have been released in recent past and it has stained the gaming industry as a whole. hard to say...
But I think you are both right, poor game developing and poor economy have played a role to some degree or another...
2009 was always going to be the crap year for MMO's. For memory the 'biggest' releases set for this year (back in 08) where Darkfall and Champions online. Already its a poor start. Couple that with all the other crap that has happened and you have easily the worst year for MMO's in the last 10 years.
That being said 2010 will be better...mostly because nothing could be as bad as this year.
MMO wish list:
-Changeable worlds -Solid non level based game -Sharks with lasers attached to their heads
On the one hand, all the games released *weren't* really bad (EA for example released Dragon Age, which is one of the best CRPGs in recent memory).
The way you've worded that statement it comes off as EA was the developer of Dragon Age.
It wasn't. Bioware was; who while owned by EA did not undergo ANY layoffs. And that's not even to mention that Dragon Age has been almost 6 years in the making, and of those 6 only 2 were under EA rule. While the EA stench can be felt on Dragon Age's marketing (blood galore), it's move to consoles (DA was explicity going to be PC title ONLY), and even it's DLC distribution, the actual core of the game is entirely EA-taint free. It's pure Baldur's Gate Bioware. Dragon Age is a Bioware game. To call it anything else is disingenuous.
So I can see the point you're making (faking), "Dragon Age sold well but EA still had massive layoffs" but the spin-free edition of what you're trying to say is "Dragon Age sold well and Bioware had no layoffs, not only that but Mythic was essentially folded under the umbrella of Bioware leadership." So in essence Bioware has grown as a company during this recession and thrived.
As you may have realized at this point, the spin-free edition of your point does not favor your argument, it in fact favors your opponent who said Devs who released quality games didn't get hit by the recession (ie, Bioware).
Now, does that mean I personally buy into the argument. Not so much, not that I really care though.
Still, I get annoyed when people fubar the details to try and win an argument.
Originally posted by Teala Originally posted by MrcdesOwnr My favorite part of the article was actually the following caption, that you had next to a WoW race change ad/graphic:When Blizzard just said, "Oh well, why not, they'll buy ANYTHING."The irony is, I'm starting to truly believe that this is the mindset of most of these companies today and therefore the real cause for the mess we are in and most likely the culprit behind these layoffs as well.These companies, ie Funcom and Mythic took us for a bunch of fools. Due to Blizzard's success they had these huge dollar signs in their eyes with overconfident expectations and champagne and caviar dreams. All the while, trying to pass along unfinished products with misleading advertising, with their hands on our wallets and a snickering laugh.Hopefully 2009 is the year where developers have learned that we are not the fools that some mistook us for and that we will not settle for half-finished garbage products wrapped in a golden bow of lies and deceit.
Don't count on it. Look at the number of fools that spent money on games like Aion and Champions. Guess what theose same people will be buying games like Mortal Online and Star Trek and later SW:ToR...and nothing will have changed.
The simple fact that you'd actually have the gall to clump Bioware in with the likes of Mythic, Funcom, Cryptic, etc, shows how out of touch with reality your viewpoint is and why it should be summarily dismissed as inane rambling.
It's very difficult to argue that the gaming industry suffered record layoffs (and they did - EA's 1,500 alone is a huge, industry-shattering number in an industry of 50,000 people, and estimates are that the total carnage last year is around 8,000) in 2009, not because of economic conditions, but because all the games released in 2008 and 2009 were just really bad. On the one hand, all the games released *weren't* really bad (EA for example released Dragon Age, which is one of the best CRPGs in recent memory). On the other hand, game releases haven't slowed in terms of sales (see: Modern Warfare 2's record-breaking release). And on the gripping hand, you essentially are arguing that not only were games in the past year so bad that they caused layoffs, but they were uniquely bad as opposed to years prior. Which just doesn't make sense.
It should if you go back and re-read it.
Was a work in progress... should be easier to ascertain my points now.
Forgive my lack of acceptance of the typical " Its a Recession" excuse. I was laid off at the begining of the " Its a Recession" blame game. Was I laid off because of the Recession? No.. I was laid off because for the past year the company was hemoraging money due to poor decisions on the corporate level. Myself and several others had been blowing the whistle far prior to the layoff about our spending practices. That atleast is where I am coming from in the debate.
So you're dismissing the economy outright because the reason yourself and others you know were laid off in your particular case had nothing to do with it? You believe that your example disproves every other case, or at least casts it in serious doubt? Really? Wow.
Take a look around. The recession has been affecting *everyone*, everywhere. My last job laid off at least 10 people (in a company that only had around 40 to begin with) because business had slowed. Business had slowed because the businesses they provide a service to stopped spending money, because the economy hit them as well. It's a ripple effect.
Are the lay-offs at companies like EA/Mythic at least partially to do with poor performance of a MMO like WAR? Sure, I can believe that... at least in part. But I also think that to believe the economy isn't to blame for many lay-offs these days, because your personal experience didn't play out that way, is incredibly myopic.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Well i can only speak for myself. most years i spend 1000$ a year in the PC industry. Games hardware, sub... etc.. this year iv spent arround 400$ on PC gaming in all.
Iv never bought or spent money on consul. Well this year for the first time iv spent 1000$ with Nintendo.
Iv said this beffor in my post on this web site. I feel like the PC is one big train reck. nothing is compatible, games crash over and over again. etc..... They need to wake up!
Well in all it was a good year for me in the end I lost 60 pounds and i feel great. I support company's that innovate.
Just wanted to say congrats and to keep up the great work!
I was a personal trainer for almost 7 years, so I know how hard that can be for most people. That is a great accomplishment and you should feel proud.
It's not the recession's fault that all these companies put out sucky MMOs. Even broke people need something to do for entertainment, and $15 a month for a MMO is cheaper than a couple movies or a few drinks at the local pub.
2009 wasn't all that bad, I got a 65" Sony Bravia TV and a PS3 and saved $1100, BOOM. My PS3 that I paid $600 for wouldn't start up one morning. Go figure, if you play something ~20 hours a day it will break after a couple years hehe.
Yeah it wasn't too great for MMOs though. I used to work for Blizzard, keywords "used to". I didn't see it announced anywhere, but alot of thier GMs that are hired by 3rd party companies got "fired" (yay contract workers). Consoles though seem to be doing ok this year, I got picked up doing pretty much the same job, just for Xbox 360s.
I'm from Austin too, and it did seem for awhile that I would never get another job in the gaming industry. Thanks to my mom though (she saw an ad in the paper), I got a job just in time to make enough money for christmas
On the one hand, all the games released *weren't* really bad (EA for example released Dragon Age, which is one of the best CRPGs in recent memory).
The way you've worded that statement it comes off as EA was the developer of Dragon Age.
It wasn't. Bioware was; who while owned by EA did not undergo ANY layoffs. And that's not even to mention that Dragon Age has been almost 6 years in the making, and of those 6 only 2 were under EA rule. While the EA stench can be felt on Dragon Age's marketing (blood galore), it's move to consoles (DA was explicity going to be PC title ONLY), and even it's DLC distribution, the actual core of the game is entirely EA-taint free. It's pure Baldur's Gate Bioware. Dragon Age is a Bioware game. To call it anything else is disingenuous.
So I can see the point you're making (faking), "Dragon Age sold well but EA still had massive layoffs" but the spin-free edition of what you're trying to say is "Dragon Age sold well and Bioware had no layoffs, not only that but Mythic was essentially folded under the umbrella of Bioware leadership." So in essence Bioware has grown as a company during this recession and thrived.
As you may have realized at this point, the spin-free edition of your point does not favor your argument, it in fact favors your opponent who said Devs who released quality games didn't get hit by the recession (ie, Bioware).
Now, does that mean I personally buy into the argument. Not so much, not that I really care though.
Still, I get annoyed when people fubar the details to try and win an argument.
Originally posted by Teala
Originally posted by MrcdesOwnr
My favorite part of the article was actually the following caption, that you had next to a WoW race change ad/graphic:
When Blizzard just said,
"Oh well, why not, they'll buy ANYTHING."
The irony is, I'm starting to truly believe that this is the mindset of most of these companies today and therefore the real cause for the mess we are in and most likely the culprit behind these layoffs as well.
These companies, ie Funcom and Mythic took us for a bunch of fools. Due to Blizzard's success they had these huge dollar signs in their eyes with overconfident expectations and champagne and caviar dreams. All the while, trying to pass along unfinished products with misleading advertising, with their hands on our wallets and a snickering laugh.
Hopefully 2009 is the year where developers have learned that we are not the fools that some mistook us for and that we will not settle for half-finished garbage products wrapped in a golden bow of lies and deceit.
Don't count on it. Look at the number of fools that spent money on games like Aion and Champions. Guess what theose same people will be buying games like Mortal Online and Star Trek and later SW:ToR...and nothing will have changed.
The simple fact that you'd actually have the gall to clump Bioware in with the likes of Mythic, Funcom, Cryptic, etc, shows how out of touch with reality your viewpoint is and why it should be summarily dismissed as inane rambling.
No doubt your 'enlightened' viewpoint is based on all the successful MMORPG's Bioware has created.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
its pretty simple only a handful mmos are not worth the 15 dollars a month standard sub to the average mmo player where they may be worth 5-10 or the freemium model . its the dogmatic approach on the behalf of a lot of developers which is the problem and the idiots that ll problerby respond to this post saying i m happy to pay 15 dollars a month rather than another subscription model . well all i can say to them of course you are most likly your playing one of the handful of games that are worth it . and not the likes of warhammer , vanguard , everquest 2 , age of conan the list goes on and on . the game that appears to have got it right is dungeons and drgaons online offering both freemium and subscription options . thats the way to go for 95 percent of mmos in my opinion or if your game is older and unable to to attract the numbers of subs in once had . drop the price . if you offer the game at a third less and attract 50 percent more players ( for example) then your increasing your revenue .
its pretty obvious which way mmos will go because like any market competition will eventually lead to price wars in sub fees . its only the most dogmatic fanbois who does nt have an idea what the real world is like would suggest the current status quo of 15 dollars a month standard subscription fee for all mmos is sustainable or even an attractive prospect .
talk about turkeys voting for christmas
i would rather the option of paying less or not at all unless i got into a game enough to want to buy moduals or expansions and be able to play several mmos a month on the side of one of the games that are worth a 15 dollar fee like eve , warcraft or lord of the rings .
its pretty simple only a handful mmos are not worth the 15 dollars a month standard sub to the average mmo player where they may be worth 5-10 or the freemium model . its the dogmatic approach on the behalf of a lot of developers which is the problem and the idiots that ll problerby respond to this post saying i m happy to pay 15 dollars a month rather than another subscription model . well all i can say to them of course you are most likly your playing one of the handful of games that are worth it . and not the likes of warhammer , vanguard , everquest 2 , age of conan the list goes on and on . the game that appears to have got it right is dungeons and drgaons online offering both freemium and subscription options . thats the way to go for 95 percent of mmos in my opinion or if your game is older and unable to to attract the numbers of subs in once had . drop the price . if you offer the game at a third less and attract 50 percent more players ( for example) then your increasing your revenue . its pretty obvious which way mmos will go because like any market competition will eventually lead to price wars in sub fees . its only the most dogmatic fanbois who does nt have an idea what the real world is like would suggest the current status quo of 15 dollars a month standard subscription fee for all mmos is sustainable or even an attractive prospect . talk about turkeys voting for christmas i would rather the option of paying less or not at all unless i got into a game enough to want to buy moduals or expansions and be able to play several mmos a month on the side of one of the games that are worth a 15 dollar fee like eve , warcraft or lord of the rings .
Subscription cost is not the problem with the majority of games on the market. They simply are not worth investing time into. Gameplay doesn't get better when the price is dropped from $15 to $5.
Overall I get the basic of what you are trying to say, but it doesn't really factor in the real currency most people value, their play time.
I disagree that 2009 was a bad year for the role-playing genre. Borderlands was a great change of pace and Dragon Age was one of the best roleplaying games I've played in years. Meanwhile, I was disappointed with my experiences playing WAR, AOC, and Champions Online.
I also wanted to add that except for a few developers, a lot of MMOG companies don't get "it." We're in a recession - which means that only is money in short supply but also time. If you're working, you're probably pulling a lot of extra hours to keep your job. If you're unemployed or in school, you still need to spend a lot more time studying or looking for work in order to get anywhere. The PC Gamer review of Aion hit it on the head - the end game is great, but you need to spend dozens of hours getting there. Nobody has the time to just grind out boring content anymore for the dangling carrot. So far, only WOW and to some extent LOTRO with the new expansion have done a good job of creating fun, "bite-sized" content that you don't need 4-5 hours a night to complete.
I disagree that 2009 was a bad year for the role-playing genre. Borderlands was a great change of pace and Dragon Age was one of the best roleplaying games I've played in years. Meanwhile, I was disappointed with my experiences playing WAR, AOC, and Champions Online. I also wanted to add that except for a few developers, a lot of MMOG companies don't get "it." We're in a recession - which means that only is money in short supply but also time. If you're working, you're probably pulling a lot of extra hours to keep your job. If you're unemployed or in school, you still need to spend a lot more time studying or looking for work in order to get anywhere. The PC Gamer review of Aion hit it on the head - the end game is great, but you need to spend dozens of hours getting there. Nobody has the time to just grind out boring content anymore for the dangling carrot. So far, only WOW and to some extent LOTRO with the new expansion have done a good job of creating fun, "bite-sized" content that you don't need 4-5 hours a night to complete.
While Borderlands and Dragon Age are great games, neither of them is an MMO, which is what we're discussing. And yes, its been a horrible year for MMOs, gotta agreee with the article and many of the posts. 2009 (and late 2008 in respect to WAR) has been a horrible year as far as MMO developers bringing anything truly unique and new to the table, even after promising repeatedly to deliver it. Its just been nothing but the same old stale gameplay with a new skin (and in some cases even worse graphics) weve had for several years already and lots of unfinished/unpolished, buggy, no content garbage that many of us wouldnt have even bothered with if it were F2P, but unfortunately got screwed out of paying full price & sub fees for games that a couple years ago wouldnt have even been passed as being in Beta stage yet.
Comments
I have many out-of-work friends, acquaintances, and former co-workers who were laid off from companies not named EA or Mythic who would beg to disagree.
It was a bad gaming season all around, not just in the Mmo field. Which I still think had nothing to do with the recession. Its been a year full of flops, and very few sucesses on every platform. Are the layoffs a direct result of the recession, which would imply consumers are not buying games like they did prior to... or is it that combined with a bad year of games being unleashed, bad press.. and then that the looming " Theres a Recession " scared the companies into cutting their numbers?
I'd like to see data on game sales across the platforms to support a " The Recession caused gaming developers to cut employes" if you understand what I mean.
http://news.cnet.com/8301-10797_3-10241545-235.html
Interesting read in regards to game sales in April
http://news.cnet.com/8301-10797_3-10309560-235.html
Another read in August.
Generally people are questioning whether its a recession proof industry, the article lists a few key reasons why sales are down that don't begin with R and end with the dust bowl .
I see the " Its the Recession" as a clever scapegoat... alot of business's and people find it very easy to just jump on the wagon... but demonstrating with data the corelation they won't do. For the gaming industry it seems pretty open and shut :
1. Few large sucesses
2. Reduced prices on all systems, games, and accessories ( Remember the prices were all higher last year, so you may be selling the same amount.. but the sales figures will show a stark drop)
3. Few guaranteed hits being released. ( Madden and MW:2 being the exceptions )
Combine all that with a climate ( The Recession ) and it seems easy enough to see why people were laid off. Did the Recession directly cause the layoffs, or did they simply force the hands of the companies?
I'd go on .. but I am in danger of blaming the waggle of "Its a Recession" on everything... Panic does horrid things... if the media states we are in a Recession, get ready.. because if we arn't .. we will be soon.
I just finished a contract in a totally recession-proof company (electricity industry). They did not lose money at all because of the downturn. They literally can't. But people lost their jobs regardless, because management had to be seen to be "doing something about the recession" by chopping budgets and pushing necessary, time- and money-saving projects back.
No managers lost their jobs of course, just employees. The one I knew personally that lost her job was an awesome worker, respected and liked at the senior manager level, and was easily head and shoulders above the "more experienced" (longer tenure) members of her department. But her projects were taken away by the senior people when theirs were pushed back or cancelled, so she had to exit the company.
However, like all awesome people, after a short time of regrouping, she now has a better job, is kicking butt at it, and has just referred me to them as well
Great article!
Jennings is the best writer on MMORPG.com
I play all ghame
I just finished a contract in a totally recession-proof company (electricity industry). They did not lose money at all because of the downturn. They literally can't. But people lost their jobs regardless, because management had to be seen to be "doing something about the recession" by chopping budgets and pushing necessary, time- and money-saving projects back.
No managers lost their jobs of course, just employees. The one I knew personally that lost her job was an awesome worker, respected and liked at the senior manager level, and was easily head and shoulders above the "more experienced" (longer tenure) members of her department. But her projects were taken away by the senior people when theirs were pushed back or cancelled, so she had to exit the company.
However, like all awesome people, after a short time of regrouping, she now has a better job, is kicking butt at it, and has just referred me to them as well
lol, that's why I lost my job. Even though our sales shrunk by 10% our future pipeline was solid and the general health of the company was very good.
So most of our office got laid off.
good times.
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Not much to crow about in this industry this year. I have found nothing worth subscribing to. Next year does not look much better at present.
I think the industry, at least the MMO part of it is undergoing a realignment. The me too designs released with half finished games has made many of us highly suspectful of any new releases. Next year we are looking at another half finished game releasing in STO. Don't these developers ever learn?
I just wish someone would put the fun back into MMO's.
The state of the economy makes the near future pretty dismal for gaming, as well. In the next 1-2 years the short cycle of browser development will mean major companies (SOE) will be putting out applications for this format. Much less risky to capitalize on a current trend than to put out something that tries to break the mold.
Microtransactions, cash services, etc. will be used to increase margin. Lots of projects will dry up. It's not going to be pretty.
Well i can only speak for myself.
most years i spend 1000$ a year in the PC industry. Games hardware, sub... etc..
this year iv spent arround 400$ on PC gaming in all.
Iv never bought or spent money on consul.
Well this year for the first time iv spent 1000$ with Nintendo.
Iv said this beffor in my post on this web site.
I feel like the PC is one big train reck. nothing is compatible, games crash over and over again. etc.....
They need to wake up!
Well in all it was a good year for me in the end I lost 60 pounds and i feel great.
I support company's that innovate.
While I may agree that the economy was a contributing factor, I have to think quality has as much, if not more, to do with companies not seeing the figures they want to see.
This year was especially rife with big name, big hype games that offered little for players to stick around after their initial 30 days. The quality was not there. The genre is maturing and so are the players, but the development houses on the whole seem to be regressing. The keep on regurgitating the same crap in different IP wrappers with nothing innovative to speak of. The result is players who have many choices that will not stick around for your game if it stinks or is the same as the game they left. WAR, AoC, CO, Alganon are all examples of this in action.
Like many others here, I usually spend quite a bit on this genre in any given year but the last few years I Have not spent anything close to what I have in the past because quite frankly, not much has piqued my interest.
Einherjar_LC says: WTB the true successor to UO or Asheron's Call pst!
This. But they don't have to have creativity anymore as they aren't designing MMO's as deep worlds rich in lore and in things players can do (and do, 50 different ways to PvE combat or PvP combat is NOT the answer). They are making shallow arcade-like games.
Somewhere along the line the Quake and Halo folks seemed to have taken over and the table-top dungeon Masters have been kicked out. Maybe it was due to all the whining about "combat is boring" on various forums that allowed this regime change but one thing is for sure:
Combat isn't king.
There's a serious need to get back to world building in an early TSR, Margaret Weis/Tracy Hickman storytelling, D&D yesteryear way than this modern wave of so-called world builders who don't seem to as the questions "why" and "how" when putting things into a world.
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I can believe there have been job losses due to recession, but at the same time I have to say, as a customer, that the games coming out these days are not very good. There is no originality, no support after the sale, and in the case of MMOs, the developers really have no clue path before a release and are easily swayed into making bad game-breaking decisions.
Take Champions Online for example. That game is pretty good as far as mechanics of combat, but its boring as hell. Its like playing a single player game because the way the game was designed doesn't support a community very well. People sign on in droves, hoping for the next best thing and suddenly everyone is suprised when the subscriptions fall off drastically after a month. The same day that game was released they decided to make sweeping changes because the game was too easy? Huh?
Same goes for Warhammer Online, which I know wasn't released this year, but has suffered a seriously decline of players. Now the game is free for everyone level 10 and below and they ripped apart tier 1 to do it. I could go on and on about the engine and other complaints I have with the game, but whats the point? I'm not here to complain about Warhammer Online.
There really isn't much in quality MMOs to choose from these days. WoW has been out forever and is really just an endless grind. Sure its fun, but after so many years people are looking for something different. Game designers and publishers need to stop complaining about the economy and start getting innovative again. I do feel bad that some of you lost your jobs due to the economy, but seriously, some of you lost your job because you are not making good games. You have lost the vision of gaming and its more about the almighty dollar (like everything else in this country) than providing a lasting and unique gaming experience.
Take RTS games for example. When is enough going to be enough? Where is the innovation in this category? Nearly all of them are copies of StarCraft, Warcraft or Command and Conquer with different graphics.
Games have been seriously dumbed down for the console market. Now, instead of PC games being released for the PC first, we have to deal with games designed to work on a console and ported to our precious PCs. You know what? I'm not going to buy a game like that. Game publishers - I will move on to something else. Bring me Ultima. Bring me Fallout 1 and 2. How about Wing Commander? Civilization? Master of Magic? Master of Orion? The list goes on and on, as the quality of our PC games goes down and the graphics go up.
FPS games.. How long will you idiots release games without co-op? Surely you don't think we can sit around shooting eachother forever? What do you think made Doom so popular? It wasn't the deathmatch. It was good for a laugh, but it got old. Playing Doom with my family wondering when that imp would jump out, now that was fun.
Listen to your customers - make innovative games and put in features we ask for. Then you might have more jobs because your games will sell. Or you could make another failed wow-clone because you listened to some suit who doesn't know jack about gaming.
ColdSun
I'd like to work for Blizzard right now. $200 million a month from subscriptions alone? Yes please.
I think both arguments are right. Because in a recessed economy consumers will take into account how important their dollars are more-so than when the economy is doing good. When people shop for things they are more tentative to what they are buying and why. And the quality over quantity stands out...
So people looking for a game will sit back and read reviews and check out demos more-so now and decide weather or not to buy a game. I've noticed myself and other coworkers doing so as well. So unless it's doing great with reviews most people are not impulse buying games as much now as they may have did in the past. Because I know I used to just buy a decently cheap game just because i was bored and didn't have anything else to play and was waiting for the next big thing from bioware or something like that. but now i'd rather download one of the many f2p mmos out there and kill time or replay something i've already played or download extra content for my already great games than get a new random game to check out.
Or maybe people are just getting fed up with all the sub-par games that have been released in recent past and it has stained the gaming industry as a whole. hard to say...
But I think you are both right, poor game developing and poor economy have played a role to some degree or another...
While the big guys feel the pain and lay off their workers, AV (Darkfall's company) is growing and has moved twice to bigger offices.
Looks like the little guy won (ganked) 2009.
The definition of insanity: doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.
2009 was always going to be the crap year for MMO's. For memory the 'biggest' releases set for this year (back in 08) where Darkfall and Champions online. Already its a poor start. Couple that with all the other crap that has happened and you have easily the worst year for MMO's in the last 10 years.
That being said 2010 will be better...mostly because nothing could be as bad as this year.
MMO wish list:
-Changeable worlds
-Solid non level based game
-Sharks with lasers attached to their heads
The way you've worded that statement it comes off as EA was the developer of Dragon Age.
It wasn't. Bioware was; who while owned by EA did not undergo ANY layoffs. And that's not even to mention that Dragon Age has been almost 6 years in the making, and of those 6 only 2 were under EA rule. While the EA stench can be felt on Dragon Age's marketing (blood galore), it's move to consoles (DA was explicity going to be PC title ONLY), and even it's DLC distribution, the actual core of the game is entirely EA-taint free. It's pure Baldur's Gate Bioware. Dragon Age is a Bioware game. To call it anything else is disingenuous.
So I can see the point you're making (faking), "Dragon Age sold well but EA still had massive layoffs" but the spin-free edition of what you're trying to say is "Dragon Age sold well and Bioware had no layoffs, not only that but Mythic was essentially folded under the umbrella of Bioware leadership." So in essence Bioware has grown as a company during this recession and thrived.
As you may have realized at this point, the spin-free edition of your point does not favor your argument, it in fact favors your opponent who said Devs who released quality games didn't get hit by the recession (ie, Bioware).
Now, does that mean I personally buy into the argument. Not so much, not that I really care though.
Still, I get annoyed when people fubar the details to try and win an argument.
Don't count on it. Look at the number of fools that spent money on games like Aion and Champions. Guess what theose same people will be buying games like Mortal Online and Star Trek and later SW:ToR...and nothing will have changed.
The simple fact that you'd actually have the gall to clump Bioware in with the likes of Mythic, Funcom, Cryptic, etc, shows how out of touch with reality your viewpoint is and why it should be summarily dismissed as inane rambling.
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It should if you go back and re-read it.
Was a work in progress... should be easier to ascertain my points now.
Forgive my lack of acceptance of the typical " Its a Recession" excuse. I was laid off at the begining of the " Its a Recession" blame game. Was I laid off because of the Recession? No.. I was laid off because for the past year the company was hemoraging money due to poor decisions on the corporate level. Myself and several others had been blowing the whistle far prior to the layoff about our spending practices. That atleast is where I am coming from in the debate.
So you're dismissing the economy outright because the reason yourself and others you know were laid off in your particular case had nothing to do with it? You believe that your example disproves every other case, or at least casts it in serious doubt? Really? Wow.
Take a look around. The recession has been affecting *everyone*, everywhere. My last job laid off at least 10 people (in a company that only had around 40 to begin with) because business had slowed. Business had slowed because the businesses they provide a service to stopped spending money, because the economy hit them as well. It's a ripple effect.
Are the lay-offs at companies like EA/Mythic at least partially to do with poor performance of a MMO like WAR? Sure, I can believe that... at least in part. But I also think that to believe the economy isn't to blame for many lay-offs these days, because your personal experience didn't play out that way, is incredibly myopic.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Just wanted to say congrats and to keep up the great work!
I was a personal trainer for almost 7 years, so I know how hard that can be for most people. That is a great accomplishment and you should feel proud.
Your fail comment, failed.
It's not the recession's fault that all these companies put out sucky MMOs. Even broke people need something to do for entertainment, and $15 a month for a MMO is cheaper than a couple movies or a few drinks at the local pub.
2009 wasn't all that bad, I got a 65" Sony Bravia TV and a PS3 and saved $1100, BOOM. My PS3 that I paid $600 for wouldn't start up one morning. Go figure, if you play something ~20 hours a day it will break after a couple years hehe.
Yeah it wasn't too great for MMOs though. I used to work for Blizzard, keywords "used to". I didn't see it announced anywhere, but alot of thier GMs that are hired by 3rd party companies got "fired" (yay contract workers). Consoles though seem to be doing ok this year, I got picked up doing pretty much the same job, just for Xbox 360s.
I'm from Austin too, and it did seem for awhile that I would never get another job in the gaming industry. Thanks to my mom though (she saw an ad in the paper), I got a job just in time to make enough money for christmas
The way you've worded that statement it comes off as EA was the developer of Dragon Age.
It wasn't. Bioware was; who while owned by EA did not undergo ANY layoffs. And that's not even to mention that Dragon Age has been almost 6 years in the making, and of those 6 only 2 were under EA rule. While the EA stench can be felt on Dragon Age's marketing (blood galore), it's move to consoles (DA was explicity going to be PC title ONLY), and even it's DLC distribution, the actual core of the game is entirely EA-taint free. It's pure Baldur's Gate Bioware. Dragon Age is a Bioware game. To call it anything else is disingenuous.
So I can see the point you're making (faking), "Dragon Age sold well but EA still had massive layoffs" but the spin-free edition of what you're trying to say is "Dragon Age sold well and Bioware had no layoffs, not only that but Mythic was essentially folded under the umbrella of Bioware leadership." So in essence Bioware has grown as a company during this recession and thrived.
As you may have realized at this point, the spin-free edition of your point does not favor your argument, it in fact favors your opponent who said Devs who released quality games didn't get hit by the recession (ie, Bioware).
Now, does that mean I personally buy into the argument. Not so much, not that I really care though.
Still, I get annoyed when people fubar the details to try and win an argument.
The simple fact that you'd actually have the gall to clump Bioware in with the likes of Mythic, Funcom, Cryptic, etc, shows how out of touch with reality your viewpoint is and why it should be summarily dismissed as inane rambling.
No doubt your 'enlightened' viewpoint is based on all the successful MMORPG's Bioware has created.
Oh wait.... never mind, they haven't yet.
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Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
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"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
its pretty simple only a handful mmos are not worth the 15 dollars a month standard sub to the average mmo player where they may be worth 5-10 or the freemium model . its the dogmatic approach on the behalf of a lot of developers which is the problem and the idiots that ll problerby respond to this post saying i m happy to pay 15 dollars a month rather than another subscription model . well all i can say to them of course you are most likly your playing one of the handful of games that are worth it . and not the likes of warhammer , vanguard , everquest 2 , age of conan the list goes on and on . the game that appears to have got it right is dungeons and drgaons online offering both freemium and subscription options . thats the way to go for 95 percent of mmos in my opinion or if your game is older and unable to to attract the numbers of subs in once had . drop the price . if you offer the game at a third less and attract 50 percent more players ( for example) then your increasing your revenue .
its pretty obvious which way mmos will go because like any market competition will eventually lead to price wars in sub fees . its only the most dogmatic fanbois who does nt have an idea what the real world is like would suggest the current status quo of 15 dollars a month standard subscription fee for all mmos is sustainable or even an attractive prospect .
talk about turkeys voting for christmas
i would rather the option of paying less or not at all unless i got into a game enough to want to buy moduals or expansions and be able to play several mmos a month on the side of one of the games that are worth a 15 dollar fee like eve , warcraft or lord of the rings .
Subscription cost is not the problem with the majority of games on the market. They simply are not worth investing time into. Gameplay doesn't get better when the price is dropped from $15 to $5.
Overall I get the basic of what you are trying to say, but it doesn't really factor in the real currency most people value, their play time.
I disagree that 2009 was a bad year for the role-playing genre. Borderlands was a great change of pace and Dragon Age was one of the best roleplaying games I've played in years. Meanwhile, I was disappointed with my experiences playing WAR, AOC, and Champions Online.
I also wanted to add that except for a few developers, a lot of MMOG companies don't get "it." We're in a recession - which means that only is money in short supply but also time. If you're working, you're probably pulling a lot of extra hours to keep your job. If you're unemployed or in school, you still need to spend a lot more time studying or looking for work in order to get anywhere. The PC Gamer review of Aion hit it on the head - the end game is great, but you need to spend dozens of hours getting there. Nobody has the time to just grind out boring content anymore for the dangling carrot. So far, only WOW and to some extent LOTRO with the new expansion have done a good job of creating fun, "bite-sized" content that you don't need 4-5 hours a night to complete.
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I also agree that Scott's name and cartoony avatar remind me alot of the late Waylon Jennings....
..wait, guess i'm offtopic here.
Have to say it...IMO, this has been the best discussion thread I've seen on this site in a while. Just a great read, from start to finish, so far.
I hope that in 2010, this site can have a lot more discussion like this. *fingers crossed*
While Borderlands and Dragon Age are great games, neither of them is an MMO, which is what we're discussing. And yes, its been a horrible year for MMOs, gotta agreee with the article and many of the posts. 2009 (and late 2008 in respect to WAR) has been a horrible year as far as MMO developers bringing anything truly unique and new to the table, even after promising repeatedly to deliver it. Its just been nothing but the same old stale gameplay with a new skin (and in some cases even worse graphics) weve had for several years already and lots of unfinished/unpolished, buggy, no content garbage that many of us wouldnt have even bothered with if it were F2P, but unfortunately got screwed out of paying full price & sub fees for games that a couple years ago wouldnt have even been passed as being in Beta stage yet.