Except that claiming all over the place that the game was rushed doesn't make it necessarily so, no matter how much you want it to be. Fans will favour games that are good, whether they were rushed, as you claim, or not.
If it's about quality, then let the prospective buyers have a free trial and see if the quality is there.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
If it's about quality, then let the prospective buyers have a free trial and see if the quality is there.
I suppose that would do it for most people.
Me? I don't put much faith in to the whole free trial thing. That's because most of the time whatever would break agame for me is not dectable in a trial (unless it's a really bad basic game mechanic).
On the other hand, player reviews often rapidly determine game flaws, like content holes. To me, this is the biggest challenge STO faces what with all the generated scenarios.
I think most of us fanbois aren't going to be much concerned with some of the noodling details. We just want a universe with the trappings of ST to tool around in. But even so, if it starts to get boring, then it doesn't matter what universe you are in.
I've read that they plan content releases every 3 to 4 months. So, the question is, is everyone going to blast through what's there at release in a month? If so, then the three month plan will not survive. Also, will the generated stuff get too repetative? Seen it all before just on a different planet or whatever?
Time will tell. But my guess is that the game wins or loses on that basis, not on most of the things that we see discussed on these and other boards.
Time will tell. But my guess is that the game wins or loses on that basis, not on most of the things that we see discussed on these and other boards. One man's opinion.
If a game sells enough boxes, it already has won. That seems to be the current business model. Retention past a couple of paid months seems to be a bonus, not a requirement. No way to be sure without knowing all the financial details, but ti would explain a lot about the recent releases.
A free trial is certainly no guarantee, but it's better than the current alternatives.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Time will tell. But my guess is that the game wins or loses on that basis, not on most of the things that we see discussed on these and other boards. One man's opinion.
If a game sells enough boxes, it already has won. That seems to be the current business model. Retention past a couple of paid months seems to be a bonus, not a requirement. No way to be sure without knowing all the financial details, but ti would explain a lot about the recent releases.
A free trial is certainly no guarantee, but it's better than the current alternatives.
I suppose, but it really doesn't make a lot of sense to me. I mean, we are seeing, across the board, a bunch of hoodwinking devs who know that thier product is shit and can only hope we buy enought boxes to save thier asses?
Don't get me wrong, with the crap releases that we've seen over the past couple of years I think anyone has the right to be gun shy.
However, it is one thing to say that mistakes and miscalculations were made and quite another to say that devs realize that they suck as devs and hope that we don't notice as they purposely release products that they know will not survive.
One isn't going to get away with that crap for long.
I think there is but one explanation for what we have seen, trying to climb aboard a train that wasn't there.
Once I was able to ignore what I wanted the game to be, and decided to focus on what they are wanting their game to be [...]
This is a surprisingly hard realization. Sometimes I get frustrated by people who evidently haven't made it, but then I remember that I, as a Tolkienite, had to go through it with both Peter Jackson's films and Turbine's MMO before I really got a grip on how to approach the phenomenon.
Tolkien's own work, detailed as it was, involved a great deal of literary interpretation and personal aesthetic imagination on the part of the reader, so I went into Jackon's films not realizing then that my imagination of Arda may be quite different from Jackson's without being any more or less correct. Once I did make that realization, I found that these films had reshaped my expectations of the setting such that Lord of the Rings Online seemed nauseatingly bright and fluffy. Yet, again, I came to like it very much.
This may seem like a very simple thing that everyone should know—it is and they do—yet it's hard. It's easier to dismiss another's objectivity as subjective than to accept one's own subjectivity as subjective. Interesting psychology, that.
'That evolution, the Holocaust, and the moon landing happened is just your opinion! Also, Legolas can't be blond, he's Sindarin.'
Favorites: EQ, EVE | Playing: None. Mostly VR and strategy | Anticipating: CU, Pantheon
Yeah, free trial if poss then will see if STO is worthy of a sub.
I really don't understand this way of thinking. If they dont give it to me for free, then I aint buying it. Doesn't that just sound wrong? And people wonder why game companies go under. If its not pirated or free, we just wont buy it. Sorry, but I feel this is the kind of attitude that makes our world a worse place to live in. When I see stuff like this, I always have this vision in my head of some dude going into a Mcdonalds and says, Hey I want to try one of them thar Big Macs. If I like it, I might actually pay for the next one but I figure I wont like it anyways so dont actually expect me to buy one.
It doesn't sound wrong at all. Nobody is asking for the company to give them something for free; just a taste before shelling out $50. A two week game trial is hardly equivalent to eating a whole Big Mac, unless the game in question is very weak on content.
Reviews are subjective and and box cover descriptions are notoriously inaccurate (really, is every game "new and exciting?") It is usually impossible to return a game for full refund if it does not meet your expectations. I don't know about you, but anything that costs $50 that didn't work as expected, I would return it in a heartbeat. Games should be no different.
Yes reviews are subjective and its up to the consumer to do his own research before he buys but even that does not guarantee you will get what you expected. Case in point. I loved all the COD games that came out and when COD:MW2 came out with a 60 buck price tag, I figured, hey, I loved all the other ones, what should be different about this one other than I am paying an extra 10 bucks more for it, for no good reason that I could see. Well, Beat it in 6.5 hours, was disappointed in the overall progression through the game and definitely did not like the ending. Now, did I hate the game? No, It was OK, but it was a big let down compared to the other COD's that I played. Should I get my money back? No, I played the game. I definitely did not get 60 bucks worth of enjoyment out of it, but I don't feel the game company owes me anything for me not liking it as well. You take a chance on anything you buy. Even that test drive of the car is but only a few minutes. How about asking them to let you test drive it for 4 weeks to let you to "decide" if you want it. I mean, cars are expected to last you for 5+ years, compared to a video game that might hold a persons interest for 1 month to a year if your lucky. Dont you think that 4 weeks should be given for the test drive? Oh and while your at it, make sure that they throw in the gas that you will use for the next four weeks also. Show me how many car dealerships are going to answer yes to that one.
People act like it costs nothing to give a free trial. That is not the case. They have bandwidth and server costs to consider while doing that, not to mention the entire problem of gold sellers that pray on free trials like salt on a slug. Yes, it would be nice if companies gave free trials but people act like its a right for them to have it and its not. It is very simple. Buy it, dont buy it, it's your choice.
How can you classify a game with say a program like Photshop. You know what photoshop is used for and that is why you bought it. Should you get your money back because you don't like how they did their menus? The program works perfectly fine, but you don't like the menus because they go down the side instead of going across the top. A game on the other hand is HIGHLY subjective in if the person will consider it fun or not. Do you ever see a game box saying, You will have fun or your money back! I am going to go out on a limb here and say, you probably have not. Sorry, like I said, I just can not understand that thinking.
No one is holding a gun to the game companies heads telling them that they MUST offer a free trial. They are doing it because they want to sell their product. They don't have any inherent right to my money or my business. If they want my business they are going to have to EARN it by offering features that are compelling enough to me to make me want to buy it. If they aren't willing to do that I'm SURE that some of their competitors WILL.... and they'll get my business instead. If they can't handle that...then they should find some other less competitive line of business.....or be comfortable with fewer sales.
One of THE MOST IMPORTANT features in advertising a product to me, and to many others in this sector is the ability to TRY OUT a product to see if it's worth the purchase price. A company, IMO, that is afraid to give potential buyers such an opportunity lacks confidence in the quality of their own work..... and is certainly not likely to earn my business.
They are certainly free not to offer such a trial if they choose or if they are unable to afford to do so.....just like they are free not to advertise..... but if they don't. They shouldn't expect many people to buy their products.... especialy when their competitors ARE offering such features.
Simply put...if a company wants me to buy it's product it has to PROVE to me that such a product is worth purchasing. It's word...or the word of a proffesional reviewer are simply not good enough for that. Though I HAVE bought products sight unseen based on the reccomendations of freinds who's taste I know and who know my taste that have tried them.
Most products you buy in a store you can return if the product doesn't live up to expectations. Even car companies are starting to offer refunds. Software is one place this is almost universally not possible without alot of grief. EBgames policy is not to accept returns on opened software. They sometimes do if you put up enough of a fuss. This makes demo's and trials almost a necessity, and I think they should be available from about the 2nd day after launch if the servers aren't overwhelmed.
I'm expecting NOT to play STO. Most of what I've heard about it doesn't meet my expectations of what would be entertaining for me for the genre. I have no idea whether it will be a well put together product or not.....there are some things that hint which it may not be....but really there is no way of knowing that for sure until it's gone gold and the NDA is lifted. However, I can pretty much tell with alot of the decisions which they have made it is not going to be the flavor of game that I am going to find fun.
I mean it's all well and good to say that they have their own "vision" of the game.....so does the guy who put's ketchup on vanilla ice cream..... I'm certainly not going to tell him he's wrong....just don't expect me to go near that kind of mess with a 10ft pole.
If they offer a free trial... I MAY check it out.... just to see first hand what they've actualy done with it..... I'm curious that way....I'm not really expecting it will change my mind about the game..... but who the heck knows for sure...they could end up surprising me.
Not decided on whether I'll try it if they offer a free trial though.....depends on what else is going on them.....my entertainment time is just as valuable to me as my cash....so I'm a bit picky about how I chose to spend it....I usualy won't invest it in something I think has low odds of panning out for me.
Explaining WHY a game was rushed does not change the fact that it was rushed. It certainly doesn't mean you should then go out and buy it. Fans invariably favor games that weren't rushed, whatever they might say beforehand. Rushed games simply don't do well in the long run.
Except that claiming all over the place that the game was rushed doesn't make it necessarily so, no matter how much you want it to be. Fans will favour games that are good, whether they were rushed, as you claim, or not.
My statement is based off dev time (2 years, which is unheard of for a modern MMO that is any good) and the fact they are cutting content (such as Klingon content). Such things are the sign of a rushed game. CO was also made similarly and it is generally regarded as rushed too. Of course, I don't expect such arguments to make an impact on someone who ignores Dev statements regarding Klingon content and seems to believe the game might be released with significant PvE content for Klingons.
Yeah, free trial if poss then will see if STO is worthy of a sub.
I really don't understand this way of thinking. If they dont give it to me for free, then I aint buying it. Doesn't that just sound wrong? And people wonder why game companies go under. If its not pirated or free, we just wont buy it. Sorry, but I feel this is the kind of attitude that makes our world a worse place to live in. When I see stuff like this, I always have this vision in my head of some dude going into a Mcdonalds and says, Hey I want to try one of them thar Big Macs. If I like it, I might actually pay for the next one but I figure I wont like it anyways so dont actually expect me to buy one.
It doesn't sound wrong at all. Nobody is asking for the company to give them something for free; just a taste before shelling out $50. A two week game trial is hardly equivalent to eating a whole Big Mac, unless the game in question is very weak on content.
Reviews are subjective and and box cover descriptions are notoriously inaccurate (really, is every game "new and exciting?") It is usually impossible to return a game for full refund if it does not meet your expectations. I don't know about you, but anything that costs $50 that didn't work as expected, I would return it in a heartbeat. Games should be no different.
Yes reviews are subjective and its up to the consumer to do his own research before he buys but even that does not guarantee you will get what you expected. Case in point. I loved all the COD games that came out and when COD:MW2 came out with a 60 buck price tag, I figured, hey, I loved all the other ones, what should be different about this one other than I am paying an extra 10 bucks more for it, for no good reason that I could see. Well, Beat it in 6.5 hours, was disappointed in the overall progression through the game and definitely did not like the ending. Now, did I hate the game? No, It was OK, but it was a big let down compared to the other COD's that I played. Should I get my money back? No, I played the game. I definitely did not get 60 bucks worth of enjoyment out of it, but I don't feel the game company owes me anything for me not liking it as well. You take a chance on anything you buy. Even that test drive of the car is but only a few minutes. How about asking them to let you test drive it for 4 weeks to let you to "decide" if you want it. I mean, cars are expected to last you for 5+ years, compared to a video game that might hold a persons interest for 1 month to a year if your lucky. Dont you think that 4 weeks should be given for the test drive? Oh and while your at it, make sure that they throw in the gas that you will use for the next four weeks also. Show me how many car dealerships are going to answer yes to that one.
People act like it costs nothing to give a free trial. That is not the case. They have bandwidth and server costs to consider while doing that, not to mention the entire problem of gold sellers that pray on free trials like salt on a slug. Yes, it would be nice if companies gave free trials but people act like its a right for them to have it and its not. It is very simple. Buy it, dont buy it, it's your choice.
How can you classify a game with say a program like Photshop. You know what photoshop is used for and that is why you bought it. Should you get your money back because you don't like how they did their menus? The program works perfectly fine, but you don't like the menus because they go down the side instead of going across the top. A game on the other hand is HIGHLY subjective in if the person will consider it fun or not. Do you ever see a game box saying, You will have fun or your money back! I am going to go out on a limb here and say, you probably have not. Sorry, like I said, I just can not understand that thinking.
No one is holding a gun to the game companies heads telling them that they MUST offer a free trial. They are doing it because they want to sell their product. They don't have any inherent right to my money or my business. If they want my business they are going to have to EARN it by offering features that are compelling enough to me to make me want to buy it. If they aren't willing to do that I'm SURE that some of their competitors WILL.... and they'll get my business instead. If they can't handle that...then they should find some other less competitive line of business.....or be comfortable with fewer sales.
One of THE MOST IMPORTANT features in advertising a product to me, and to many others in this sector is the ability to TRY OUT a product to see if it's worth the purchase price. A company, IMO, that is afraid to give potential buyers such an opportunity lacks confidence in the quality of their own work..... and is certainly not likely to earn my business.
They are certainly free not to offer such a trial if they choose or if they are unable to afford to do so.....just like they are free not to advertise..... but if they don't. They shouldn't expect many people to buy their products.... especialy when their competitors ARE offering such features.
Simply put...if a company wants me to buy it's product it has to PROVE to me that such a product is worth purchasing. It's word...or the word of a proffesional reviewer are simply not good enough for that. Though I HAVE bought products sight unseen based on the reccomendations of freinds who's taste I know and who know my taste that have tried them.
Offering free trials is a rather new concept in MMO's. If you look back, most free trials(if they actually had them) came years after the game was released. A few have put out trials right from the start and thats cool to, but to make such demands that either a company put out a free trial or I simply wont play is absurd. As another poster mentioned, the early game is usually the most polished compared to the rest of the game. So now if they offer free trials and you like it and decide to play it, then find out just shortly after the trial area that you don't like the game, then what are you going to do? People will then start complaining that the free trial is just false advertisement and that the company ripped them off. It is a no win situation. You know how game companies sell games and have been doing it forever? Word of mouth! It is the best form of advertisement these game companies have and always have had, and that was long before free trials ever hit the market.
Then you have the problem with free trials that is absolutely killing MMO's now and that is it allows gold spammers free reign to spam their services and annoy everyone in the game. So what do game companies have to do? Then they have to start limiting tells and mail and zone wide or world wide speach to keep the spammers from annoying everyone. Then that affects the folks that actually are trying the trial for its actual intended purpose of bringing them into the game, but now they can't ask questions because of the rules the game company had to put in place to keep the spammers down. It is a no win situation there to.
In a nut shell, I would rather an MMO not have a free trial at all, ever, so that it doesn't give open season to gold spammers. Now, if they didnt exist, it would not be much of an issue at all. So, does that mean some people wont try it because there isn't a free trial, sure, to bad for them. But it will make everyones life much better that actually paid for the game so they don't have to put up with that crap every single time they log into a game. It is the exact reason I quit Aion. You could not log in without getting dozens of tells, gold spammers spamming every single channel and I do mean spamming to the point of you could not see anything else but their stupid advertisements.
And dont think there wont be spammers in STO. I mean, look at DDO. There is absolutely no reason at all to buy gold in that game, yet they are there and it seems they are doing well and this was long before they went free to play.
I'm expecting NOT to play STO. Most of what I've heard about it doesn't meet my expectations of what would be entertaining for me for the genre. I have no idea whether it will be a well put together product or not.....there are some things that hint which it may not be....but really there is no way of knowing that for sure until it's gone gold and the NDA is lifted. However, I can pretty much tell with alot of the decisions which they have made it is not going to be the flavor of game that I am going to find fun. I mean it's all well and good to say that they have their own "vision" of the game.....so does the guy who put's ketchup on vanilla ice cream..... I'm certainly not going to tell him he's wrong....just don't expect me to go near that kind of mess with a 10ft pole. If they offer a free trial... I MAY check it out.... just to see first hand what they've actualy done with it..... I'm curious that way....I'm not really expecting it will change my mind about the game..... but who the heck knows for sure...they could end up surprising me. Not decided on whether I'll try it if they offer a free trial though.....depends on what else is going on them.....my entertainment time is just as valuable to me as my cash....so I'm a bit picky about how I chose to spend it....I usualy won't invest it in something I think has low odds of panning out for me.
To me that is completely reasonable. Your not planning on playing and even a free trial which would cost you nothing but time, is still probably not going to change your mind. This is one of the more intelligent posts that I have seen on here. No bitching about this or that, you simply don't think you will like what they did and your probably not going to buy it. Kudos to you sir, for being able to make a decision without bashing the game or the company!
Once I was able to ignore what I wanted the game to be, and decided to focus on what they are wanting their game to be [...]
This is a surprisingly hard realization. Sometimes I get frustrated by people who evidently haven't made it, but then I remember that I, as a Tolkienite, had to go through it with both Peter Jackson's films and Turbine's MMO before I really got a grip on how to approach the phenomenon.
Tolkien's own work, detailed as it was, involved a great deal of literary interpretation and personal aesthetic imagination on the part of the reader, so I went into Jackon's films not realizing then that my imagination of Arda may be quite different from Jackson's without being any more or less correct. Once I did make that realization, I found that these films had reshaped my expectations of the setting such that Lord of the Rings Online seemed nauseatingly bright and fluffy. Yet, again, I came to like it very much.
This may seem like a very simple thing that everyone should know—it is and they do—yet it's hard. It's easier to dismiss another's objectivity as subjective than to accept one's own subjectivity as subjective. Interesting psychology, that.
'That evolution, the Holocaust, and the moon landing happened is just your opinion! Also, Legolas can't be blond, he's Sindarin.'
Yes and this is something that I fear most people have not been able to realize. And instead of coming to that realization, they end up bashing the game company and game because it doesn't conform to their ideas of what they want the game to be. I have been a huge comic book fan all my life. When I was young, they made several cartoons based off the comic books and you know what the first thing that hit me was when I saw the cartoons? This may sound strange, but, it was their voices. They sounded nothing like they did from the comic book. People don't realize their how much their own imagination influences them. In my mind, all those characters had their own voices, personalities, the works. Yet, when they hit the tv, they sounded nothing like they should have. Its a shame more people can't make that realization.
Offering free trials is a rather new concept in MMO's. If you look back, most free trials(if they actually had them) came years after the game was released. A few have put out trials right from the start and thats cool to, but to make such demands that either a company put out a free trial or I simply wont play is absurd. As another poster mentioned, the early game is usually the most polished compared to the rest of the game. So now if they offer free trials and you like it and decide to play it, then find out just shortly after the trial area that you don't like the game, then what are you going to do? People will then start complaining that the free trial is just false advertisement and that the company ripped them off. It is a no win situation. You know how game companies sell games and have been doing it forever? Word of mouth! It is the best form of advertisement these game companies have and always have had, and that was long before free trials ever hit the market. Then you have the problem with free trials that is absolutely killing MMO's now and that is it allows gold spammers free reign to spam their services and annoy everyone in the game. So what do game companies have to do? Then they have to start limiting tells and mail and zone wide or world wide speach to keep the spammers from annoying everyone. Then that affects the folks that actually are trying the trial for its actual intended purpose of bringing them into the game, but now they can't ask questions because of the rules the game company had to put in place to keep the spammers down. It is a no win situation there to. In a nut shell, I would rather an MMO not have a free trial at all, ever, so that it doesn't give open season to gold spammers. Now, if they didnt exist, it would not be much of an issue at all. So, does that mean some people wont try it because there isn't a free trial, sure, to bad for them. But it will make everyones life much better that actually paid for the game so they don't have to put up with that crap every single time they log into a game. It is the exact reason I quit Aion. You could not log in without getting dozens of tells, gold spammers spamming every single channel and I do mean spamming to the point of you could not see anything else but their stupid advertisements. And dont think there wont be spammers in STO. I mean, look at DDO. There is absolutely no reason at all to buy gold in that game, yet they are there and it seems they are doing well and this was long before they went free to play.
WoW's free trial doesn't allow gold sellers and spammers an outlet. You simply limit chat with the community, no zone or global type of chat just say only. You also do not allow them to trade with others, use the mail system or the auction house.
Whats so hard about that?
As far as STO... I'm not really expecting many if any gold sellers really. Just look at CO, not a seller in site lol. There may be some but there isn't enough of a presence for most or any to notice if they are there.
The idea of a trial is to let the game stand or fall on it's own merits. Not being able to use the auction house or chat with others or use the mail system or trade isn't a huge loss and people can still get a feel of the game.
In any case, if things go like CO did it's not like people will have to wait long for the free trials to start. It was what, two months after launch before the first free weekend?
But in any case, this is why I simply can not take you seriously...
but to make such demands that either a company put out a free trial or I simply wont play is absurd.
That right there makes you a part of the problem. I mean something is seriously wrong when someone thinks it's absurd to want to know what your buying it before you buy it.
The rest of your post doesn't make a lick of sense and I will spare you by not commenting on it, suffice to say I highly doubt you are 42 lol.
Devs hype and hype a game and tout it as being such a great thing, if there so confident in there game it's time they put up or shut up. No game ever lives up to it's hype.
What a free trial essential does is let you know if the game will work with your rig as not all do regardless of wether you exceed the specs or not. Look at the MANY people that simply could not play CO, they were simply out the cash with JACK to show for it. Look at DnL, lots of people got ripped off on that one because the game simply didn't work for many and well we won't go into the rest of DnL's issues lol. Then it also lets you get a feel for the systems in the game. Do you like how the combat feels, do you like the look of the world and toons, do you like the sounds, do you like the story so far, all these are good things to know before buying an MMO as the feel of combat can put someone off the game.
At this point I do not think your a gamer at all. I think your a dev, for either STO or another MMO. You talk about how bad a free trial is and how it does no good ... and you come up with the most asinine reasons why.
-------A FACT-------
There is no Valid argument against a free trial for an MMO
-------A FACT-------
Sure there are some issues that could happen but they are issues than can be resolved.
No matter what argument you think you may have against free trials, please keep this is mind.
-------A FACT-------
There is no Valid argument against a free trial for an MMO
-------A FACT-------
You may be of the opinion that you do have a valid argument against free trials. But again your opinion in this case is wrong because....
-------A FACT-------
There is no Valid argument against a free trial for an MMO
I have four other good friends with almost the same taste in gaming, and usually when something new, MMOwise comes out, and none of us played the beta, we will split the price of one copy and play for a month.
This usually works out well, as many of the recently released games have been "eh" at best. In so doing, we have save a lot of cash and bought many fewer coasters, as compared to listening to the hype and buying multiple copies based off reviews.
Sometimes even the free trials can be misleading, as the beginner areas are often the most polished.
Better to split the cost of a game that might turn out to be bad, than get a new $50 coaster each time.
If I play STO at/near launch at all (which is fairly doubtful, at this point) it will likely be through this method.
I have four other good friends with almost the same taste in gaming, and usually when something new, MMOwise comes out, and none of us played the beta, we will split the price of one copy and play for a month. This usually works out well, as many of the recently released games have been "eh" at best. In so doing, we have save a lot of cash and bought many fewer coasters, as compared to listening to the hype and buying multiple copies based off reviews. Sometimes even the free trials can be misleading, as the beginner areas are often the most polished. Better to split the cost of a game that might turn out to be bad, than get a new $50 coaster each time. If I play STO at/near launch at all (which is fairly doubtful, at this point) it will likely be through this method.
That is a very good idea.
Let me ask you, if you all decide you like the game, who gets to keep the account?
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
I have four other good friends with almost the same taste in gaming, and usually when something new, MMOwise comes out, and none of us played the beta, we will split the price of one copy and play for a month. This usually works out well, as many of the recently released games have been "eh" at best. In so doing, we have save a lot of cash and bought many fewer coasters, as compared to listening to the hype and buying multiple copies based off reviews. Sometimes even the free trials can be misleading, as the beginner areas are often the most polished. Better to split the cost of a game that might turn out to be bad, than get a new $50 coaster each time. If I play STO at/near launch at all (which is fairly doubtful, at this point) it will likely be through this method.
That is a very good idea.
Let me ask you, if you all decide you like the game, who gets to keep the account?
If it is something that everyone likes a lot ends up buying, the guy who bought the original copy kicks everyone their $10 back (the last time this happened was with SWG back in 2003), except the person keeping the game, which ends up costing him the full price of $50.
If some but not all of the people plan on buying the game, the people that want their $10 back towards buying their own copy, they can have it, with the original buyer getting the "discount" from the $10s others who did not like what they see kicked in. This is usually what happens, and considered fair, since the original buyer went through the trouble of getting the game in the first place (and usually provides hospitality on "kick-off" night).
It works out that most of us that would otherwise have bought the game to try it out and end up having been disappointed, save $40. It was thus with AoC, WAR, Aion, and several other titles over the last few years.
WoW's free trial doesn't allow gold sellers and spammers an outlet. You simply limit chat with the community, no zone or global type of chat just say only. You also do not allow them to trade with others, use the mail system or the auction house.
Whats so hard about that?
That was exactly my point. If you severely limit what a person can say in a trial, then it severely limits them asking general questions. Sure they can use say, but how many people really pay attention to say anymore. I know I don't unless im in an area with very few people. The other problem with this is that the user may not understand why they can't talk in regular chat. They might not understand that it is to keep gold spammers down.
As far as STO... I'm not really expecting many if any gold sellers really. Just look at CO, not a seller in site lol. There may be some but there isn't enough of a presence for most or any to notice if they are there.
Im with you there, but I felt the same about DDO and it got its fair share of spamming.
The idea of a trial is to let the game stand or fall on it's own merits. Not being able to use the auction house or chat with others or use the mail system or trade isn't a huge loss and people can still get a feel of the game.
Except when they have questions and get frustrated because they can't get an answer in say, because they can't use a larger channel to ask those questions. It is huge deal and can make or break a game for someone if they feel the community are nothing but snobs and wont answer them, Not realizing that it is that same free trial that is part of the problem
In any case, if things go like CO did it's not like people will have to wait long for the free trials to start. It was what, two months after launch before the first free weekend?
But in any case, this is why I simply can not take you seriously...
but to make such demands that either a company put out a free trial or I simply wont play is absurd.
That right there makes you a part of the problem. I mean something is seriously wrong when someone thinks it's absurd to want to know what your buying it before you buy it.
The FACT is that your demanding a free trial or you wont play. Don't you consider that as a form of extortion from the players perspective? I demand you give me a bic mac or I will never buy another burger from your company. If I was the company I would tell you to piss off and not worry about you. Now, Its not that I am not sympathetic to your plight. I fully understand your reasons for wanting a free trial and can support them. But to demand a free trial is something different. But I guess that is the difference between us. I can see both sides where you can only accept your side or none at all.
The rest of your post doesn't make a lick of sense and I will spare you by not commenting on it, suffice to say I highly doubt you are 42 lol.
Thats ok, I wont lose any sleep over you not believing my age. I know how old I am and thats all that is important. But I do find it odd that while we have been having this conversation, I have never once thought about your age and or even felt the need to question your age. Again, the differences between us I guess.
Devs hype and hype a game and tout it as being such a great thing, if there so confident in there game it's time they put up or shut up. No game ever lives up to it's hype.
Devs usually arent the ones hyping the games. The publisher is. And I would disagree that no game has ever lived up to its hype. There have been several that have surpassed it by miles!
What a free trial essential does is let you know if the game will work with your rig as not all do regardless of wether you exceed the specs or not. Look at the MANY people that simply could not play CO, they were simply out the cash with JACK to show for it. Look at DnL, lots of people got ripped off on that one because the game simply didn't work for many and well we won't go into the rest of DnL's issues lol. Then it also lets you get a feel for the systems in the game. Do you like how the combat feels, do you like the look of the world and toons, do you like the sounds, do you like the story so far, all these are good things to know before buying an MMO as the feel of combat can put someone off the game.
This has been the first logical reason you have made in regards to free trials. At least the part about hardware.
At this point I do not think your a gamer at all. I think your a dev, for either STO or another MMO. You talk about how bad a free trial is and how it does no good ... and you come up with the most asinine reasons why.
Thank you for the kind thoughts but you would be wrong. I have stated in other posts that I work for an energy company as a scripter. And not even the programming kind of scripter at that. I take general software that is bought and repackage it for delivery within our company. Not a glamorous job by any means.
I dont think I ever said a trial does no good. I have stated that that due to gold spammers, the companies are better off with out them. Nor have I said that a free trial is bad, with the exception of gold spammers. What I have said is that it is absurd for a person to DEMAND that a company put out a trial or you simply wont buy their products.
-------A FACT-------
I will just stop you right here. Stating opinion as fact is what makes people look ignorant. And not trying to attack you here, but there is a whole lot of ignorance below this red.
There is no Valid argument against a free trial for an MMO
-------A FACT-------
Sure there are some issues that could happen but they are issues than can be resolved.
No matter what argument you think you may have against free trials, please keep this is mind.
-------A FACT-------
There is no Valid argument against a free trial for an MMO
-------A FACT-------
You may be of the opinion that you do have a valid argument against free trials. But again your opinion in this case is wrong because....
-------A FACT-------
There is no Valid argument against a free trial for an MMO
The FACT is that your demanding a free trial or you wont play. Don't you consider that as a form of extortion from the players perspective?
Now wanting to see what your buying before you buy it is extortion?! lol... ok I get it, I was trolled hard lol. You did a good job.
I will just stop you right here. Stating opinion as fact is what makes people look ignorant. And not trying to attack you here, but there is a whole lot of ignorance below this red.
Wasn't stating an opinion lol. Sorry it's a fact, having a free trial for an MMO is nothing but a boon for the consumer. You talked about RMT's taking advantage of it, this problem has already been resolved case and point WoW's free trials.
You talked about server congestion. This problem has already been taken care of, case and point DAoC's trial or other MMO's that stick you on an island.
You talked about the cost for the devs to do so. This has already been addressed, case and point Age of Conans $5 dollars for the trial. Some others charged a dollar lol.
I stated a fact, there is no Valid argument against free trials lol. If you care to prove me wrong then do so. Until then your just yapping and every point you've made has already been addressed by other MMO's with there free trials.
When you wish to get serious and drop the charade let me know, I'm always game for a good debate.
The FACT is that your demanding a free trial or you wont play. Don't you consider that as a form of extortion from the players perspective?
Now wanting to see what your buying before you buy it is extortion?! lol... ok I get it, I was trolled hard lol. You did a good job. I will just stop you right here. Stating opinion as fact is what makes people look ignorant. And not trying to attack you here, but there is a whole lot of ignorance below this red.
Wasn't stating an opinion lol. Sorry it's a fact, having a free trial for an MMO is nothing but a boon for the consumer. You talked about RMT's taking advantage of it, this problem has already been resolved case and point WoW's free trials. You talked about server congestion. This problem has already been taken care of, case and point DAoC's trial or other MMO's that stick you on an island. You talked about the cost for the devs to do so. This has already been addressed, case and point Age of Conans $5 dollars for the trial. Some others charged a dollar lol. I stated a fact, there is no Valid argument against free trials lol. If you care to prove me wrong then do so. Until then your just yapping and every point you've made has already been addressed by other MMO's with there free trials. When you wish to get serious and drop the charade let me know, I'm always game for a good debate.
I hate to burst your bubble, but you really need to go back and look up the definitions of FACT and OPINION. I have nothing against Free Trials, but saying that there is no Valid argument against free trials is an opinion because what is considered Valid is not just determined by YOUR point of view.
The FACT is that your demanding a free trial or you wont play. Don't you consider that as a form of extortion from the players perspective?
Now wanting to see what your buying before you buy it is extortion?! lol... ok I get it, I was trolled hard lol. You did a good job. I will just stop you right here. Stating opinion as fact is what makes people look ignorant. And not trying to attack you here, but there is a whole lot of ignorance below this red.
Wasn't stating an opinion lol. Sorry it's a fact, having a free trial for an MMO is nothing but a boon for the consumer. You talked about RMT's taking advantage of it, this problem has already been resolved case and point WoW's free trials. You talked about server congestion. This problem has already been taken care of, case and point DAoC's trial or other MMO's that stick you on an island. You talked about the cost for the devs to do so. This has already been addressed, case and point Age of Conans $5 dollars for the trial. Some others charged a dollar lol. I stated a fact, there is no Valid argument against free trials lol. If you care to prove me wrong then do so. Until then your just yapping and every point you've made has already been addressed by other MMO's with there free trials. When you wish to get serious and drop the charade let me know, I'm always game for a good debate.
I hate to burst your bubble, but you really need to go back and look up the definitions of FACT and OPINION. I have nothing against Free Trials, but saying that there is no Valid argument against free trials is an opinion because what is considered Valid is not just determined by YOUR point of view.
That is your opinion, but your opinion does not invalidate the fact I presented.
Opinion: a belief or judgment that rests on grounds insufficient to produce complete certainty.
Fact: something that actually exists; reality; truth
Fact: Every MMO has eventually adds a free trial unless they shut down prior to having a chance to do so. The reason is to increase sub's by giving people an opportunity to check the game out with out spending money on it or spending additional money on it making it more likely they will give it a try.
Fact: Free trials can be a boon to the consumer and will only impact existing customers if done poorly.
Fact: Not having a free trial only benefits the developers as they believe more people will pay to try the game based on the hype surrounding it if they are flying blind.
Fact: Unless your among those counting on the flying blind box sales for revenue then there is no valid argument against a properly done free trial.
Fact: If you are among those counting on the flying blind box sales then the only logical arguments to be made are based on taking other peoples money knowing theres a good chance there not going to enjoy your product but counting on them buying it regardless due to the hype surrounding the game initially.
This while a valid argument to some is not a valid argument against free trials. The reason why this is not a valid argument?
Simple
Consumer protection laws are designed to ensure fair competition and the free flow of truthful information in the marketplace. The laws are designed to prevent businesses that engage in fraud or specified unfair practices from gaining an advantage over competitors and may provide additional protection for the weak and those unable to take care of themselves.
It's not only immoral, it's illegal.
The only forms of valid arguments that could be made are ones that revolve around increasing the developer or publishers revenue and these arguments are solely based on not letting the consumer know what there buying because it's better for our wallets which again is illegal making them all invalid arguments.
If you care to dispute my facts... then by all means do so. Until you have disputed them though, accept that I hold these facts in higher regard than your opinion lol.
My expectations are that I get to play a game created (inspired) by a show that I love. I expect to play for fun and let the chips fall where they mean. The game sounds decent as it stands right now and you know what? I am satisfied with what I have heard to this point. I will participate in Open Beta to help the game improve as much as it can then play the game on a regular basis.
...and who knows? What would happen if STO turns out to be a really good game and really surprising hit there will still be whining and moaning and gnashing of teeth.. but that's par for the course. I truly look forward to playing STO plain and simple, faults and positive stuff regardless.
I hope to see many of you in Open Beta at least.. can never have enough friends.
Take care all and I'll read all the new posts come January 2nd! Be well. Happy New Years to you all.
The FACT is that your demanding a free trial or you wont play. Don't you consider that as a form of extortion from the players perspective?
Now wanting to see what your buying before you buy it is extortion?! lol... ok I get it, I was trolled hard lol. You did a good job. I will just stop you right here. Stating opinion as fact is what makes people look ignorant. And not trying to attack you here, but there is a whole lot of ignorance below this red.
Wasn't stating an opinion lol. Sorry it's a fact, having a free trial for an MMO is nothing but a boon for the consumer. You talked about RMT's taking advantage of it, this problem has already been resolved case and point WoW's free trials. You talked about server congestion. This problem has already been taken care of, case and point DAoC's trial or other MMO's that stick you on an island. You talked about the cost for the devs to do so. This has already been addressed, case and point Age of Conans $5 dollars for the trial. Some others charged a dollar lol. I stated a fact, there is no Valid argument against free trials lol. If you care to prove me wrong then do so. Until then your just yapping and every point you've made has already been addressed by other MMO's with there free trials. When you wish to get serious and drop the charade let me know, I'm always game for a good debate.
I like how you try to present opinions as fact even though they aren't. Good try though. I also like how you gloss over the ability for someone in a trial trying to get information and can't because they are locked down to not speaking to others DUE to the companies being forced to do that because of goldspam. That hurts the company almost as much as not having a free trial.
Talking about islands. They had to do extra coding to do something like that. and MOST of all those games you talked about (including ones you didnt) did not start with a free trial right off the bat. So your point has no real validation for people demanding a free trial when a game first starts. Hrmm, sorry, but I believe your facts have been busted! Now, if you want to try again, feel free (pun intended) to give it a try.
The FACT is that your demanding a free trial or you wont play. Don't you consider that as a form of extortion from the players perspective?
Now wanting to see what your buying before you buy it is extortion?! lol... ok I get it, I was trolled hard lol. You did a good job. I will just stop you right here. Stating opinion as fact is what makes people look ignorant. And not trying to attack you here, but there is a whole lot of ignorance below this red.
Wasn't stating an opinion lol. Sorry it's a fact, having a free trial for an MMO is nothing but a boon for the consumer. You talked about RMT's taking advantage of it, this problem has already been resolved case and point WoW's free trials. You talked about server congestion. This problem has already been taken care of, case and point DAoC's trial or other MMO's that stick you on an island. You talked about the cost for the devs to do so. This has already been addressed, case and point Age of Conans $5 dollars for the trial. Some others charged a dollar lol. I stated a fact, there is no Valid argument against free trials lol. If you care to prove me wrong then do so. Until then your just yapping and every point you've made has already been addressed by other MMO's with there free trials. When you wish to get serious and drop the charade let me know, I'm always game for a good debate.
I like how you try to present opinions as fact even though they aren't. Good try though. I also like how you gloss over the ability for someone in a trial trying to get information and can't because they are locked down to not speaking to others DUE to the companies being forced to do that because of goldspam. That hurts the company almost as much as not having a free trial.
Talking about islands. They had to do extra coding to do something like that. and MOST of all those games you talked about (including ones you didnt) did not start with a free trial right off the bat. So your point has no real validation for people demanding a free trial when a game first starts. Hrmm, sorry, but I believe your facts have been busted! Now, if you want to try again, feel free (pun intended) to give it a try.
The trial is to TRY the game. Not get information from others and any info you need can be asked for on forums such as this one. It's part of the reason for the forums. I also stated you would have access to "Say" such is the case in WoW. Plently of people are generally around the starting area's you can ask what you need to ask and if they aren't or can't the forums aren't exactly locked away in limbo.
And no lol that doesn't hurt the company limiting trial accounts to "say" only, the new player gets to experience the game and doesn't have to deal with the Chuck Norris jokes, the Go back to WoW comments, the flames and petty squabbles that plauge pretty much every MMO's general chat, zone chat or LFG chat. This of course is merely my opinion.
And yes it would take development time to get a well done free trial setup. It's not like it would add years to the development cycle. Your talking weeks to a few months max needed to create a decent free trial and thats if you decided to make a new zone specifically for it instead of simply copying another zone and tweaking it.
While I do not program in C++ I am good with Visual Basic, I am also an animator and 3D artist. If I can whip up a decent sized playable area in a few weeks with the tools I have considering this is just my hobby and I rarely take on projects from others I am sure an experienced TEAM can out do me. If they can't well... somethings wrong with the team.
In any case, if they want my money why should they not have to show me why I should give it to them? That free trial, or free trial area is going to be developed sooner or later what difference does it make if it's done sooner? I could tell you the difference, but I'd rather hear what you come up with first lol.
And now on to your point about MMO's do not launch with the free trial....
You are correct, and that is the problem we are currently discussing. If they did launch with free trials we would not be here discussing this right now. My point has validation because they DID not launch with free trials and the retnetion rate on many of those MMO's was horrible. AoC is a good example. 700k + box sales, tons of hype, after the first month not even half that number re-subbed. Why? Because the hype as usual was a lie. This left tons of people feeling cheated, they then went out on a crusade to roast AoC alive, not all but many did. A free trial would have saved a lot of those consumers money, it would have spared Funcoms reputation and the game would have likely not been roasted and critisized as harshly as it was. In Age of Conans case I believe a free trial would have saved the consumers and Funcom a lot of grief. This of course is opinion.
However none of this debunks the fact that there is no valid argument against free trials. . It's somethine every MMO eventually has anyways lol.
Feel free to try again, because you have failed yet again.
Please put some thought and effort into your next post lol, this is like debating with a 5 year old.
Originally posted by GrayGhost79 However none of this debunks the fact that there is no valid argument against free trials.
This is an opinion, not a fact. I'm sure there is a P2P MMO out there that does not offer a free trial. The developers/distributors of said MMO would surely have a valid reason for their lack of a free trial, thereby debunking your "fact".
Also, hardly any MMOs offer a free trial upon release, because they want people to buy the game based on the 'hype', as it were. Thus, they make as much money as they can on initial box sales. There are many people that will buy the retail box who otherwise wouldn't if a free trial was available at release. That is indeed a "valid argument" from a financial standpoint.
Originally posted by GrayGhost79 However none of this debunks the fact that there is no valid argument against free trials.
While I agree with this, it is an opinion, not a fact. I'm sure there is a P2P MMO out there that does not offer a free trial. The developers/distributors of said MMO would surely have a valid reason for their lack of a free trial, thereby debunking your "fact".
I'm sure there is a P2P MMO out there that does not offer a free trial.
They all do eventually unless they close down before getting a chance to lol.
In any case, it is still a fact lol I just wasn't going to state directly that it was a subjective fact.
A developer or publisher may find valid reasons to not offer a free trial, however these reasons work in there favor and against the consumer. Whats valid to a Developer and or Publisher is not neccessarily going to be Valid to the consumer especially when it comes to something like a free trial.
It is a fact, it's just a subjective fact. And the only reason I went on about it was because I had become tired of Doomsday stating over and over that wanting a free trial for an MMO before purchasing it was akin to extortion lol.
I rarely post half cocked lol, theres generally a trap or an ace up my sleeve. Was going to wait till Doomsday had drolled on a bit more about my "opinion" before stating the subjective fact comment. But it seems he has gotten bored and thus so have I.
In response to your Edit....
Also, hardly any MMOs offer a free trial upon release, because they want people to buy the game based on the 'hype', as it were. Thus, they make as much money as they can on initial box sales. There are many people that will buy the retail box who otherwise wouldn't if a free trial was available at release. That is indeed a "valid argument" from a financial standpoint.
Which is why I posted the above.
Subjective fact: A subjective fact is one that is only true under certain conditions, at certain times, in certain places, or for certain people.
Comments
If it's about quality, then let the prospective buyers have a free trial and see if the quality is there.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
I suppose that would do it for most people.
Me? I don't put much faith in to the whole free trial thing. That's because most of the time whatever would break agame for me is not dectable in a trial (unless it's a really bad basic game mechanic).
On the other hand, player reviews often rapidly determine game flaws, like content holes. To me, this is the biggest challenge STO faces what with all the generated scenarios.
I think most of us fanbois aren't going to be much concerned with some of the noodling details. We just want a universe with the trappings of ST to tool around in. But even so, if it starts to get boring, then it doesn't matter what universe you are in.
I've read that they plan content releases every 3 to 4 months. So, the question is, is everyone going to blast through what's there at release in a month? If so, then the three month plan will not survive. Also, will the generated stuff get too repetative? Seen it all before just on a different planet or whatever?
Time will tell. But my guess is that the game wins or loses on that basis, not on most of the things that we see discussed on these and other boards.
One man's opinion.
If a game sells enough boxes, it already has won. That seems to be the current business model. Retention past a couple of paid months seems to be a bonus, not a requirement. No way to be sure without knowing all the financial details, but ti would explain a lot about the recent releases.
A free trial is certainly no guarantee, but it's better than the current alternatives.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
If a game sells enough boxes, it already has won. That seems to be the current business model. Retention past a couple of paid months seems to be a bonus, not a requirement. No way to be sure without knowing all the financial details, but ti would explain a lot about the recent releases.
A free trial is certainly no guarantee, but it's better than the current alternatives.
I suppose, but it really doesn't make a lot of sense to me. I mean, we are seeing, across the board, a bunch of hoodwinking devs who know that thier product is shit and can only hope we buy enought boxes to save thier asses?
Don't get me wrong, with the crap releases that we've seen over the past couple of years I think anyone has the right to be gun shy.
However, it is one thing to say that mistakes and miscalculations were made and quite another to say that devs realize that they suck as devs and hope that we don't notice as they purposely release products that they know will not survive.
One isn't going to get away with that crap for long.
I think there is but one explanation for what we have seen, trying to climb aboard a train that wasn't there.
This is a surprisingly hard realization. Sometimes I get frustrated by people who evidently haven't made it, but then I remember that I, as a Tolkienite, had to go through it with both Peter Jackson's films and Turbine's MMO before I really got a grip on how to approach the phenomenon.
Tolkien's own work, detailed as it was, involved a great deal of literary interpretation and personal aesthetic imagination on the part of the reader, so I went into Jackon's films not realizing then that my imagination of Arda may be quite different from Jackson's without being any more or less correct. Once I did make that realization, I found that these films had reshaped my expectations of the setting such that Lord of the Rings Online seemed nauseatingly bright and fluffy. Yet, again, I came to like it very much.
This may seem like a very simple thing that everyone should know—it is and they do—yet it's hard. It's easier to dismiss another's objectivity as subjective than to accept one's own subjectivity as subjective. Interesting psychology, that.
'That evolution, the Holocaust, and the moon landing happened is just your opinion! Also, Legolas can't be blond, he's Sindarin.'
I really don't understand this way of thinking. If they dont give it to me for free, then I aint buying it. Doesn't that just sound wrong? And people wonder why game companies go under. If its not pirated or free, we just wont buy it. Sorry, but I feel this is the kind of attitude that makes our world a worse place to live in. When I see stuff like this, I always have this vision in my head of some dude going into a Mcdonalds and says, Hey I want to try one of them thar Big Macs. If I like it, I might actually pay for the next one but I figure I wont like it anyways so dont actually expect me to buy one.
It doesn't sound wrong at all. Nobody is asking for the company to give them something for free; just a taste before shelling out $50. A two week game trial is hardly equivalent to eating a whole Big Mac, unless the game in question is very weak on content.
Reviews are subjective and and box cover descriptions are notoriously inaccurate (really, is every game "new and exciting?") It is usually impossible to return a game for full refund if it does not meet your expectations. I don't know about you, but anything that costs $50 that didn't work as expected, I would return it in a heartbeat. Games should be no different.
Yes reviews are subjective and its up to the consumer to do his own research before he buys but even that does not guarantee you will get what you expected. Case in point. I loved all the COD games that came out and when COD:MW2 came out with a 60 buck price tag, I figured, hey, I loved all the other ones, what should be different about this one other than I am paying an extra 10 bucks more for it, for no good reason that I could see. Well, Beat it in 6.5 hours, was disappointed in the overall progression through the game and definitely did not like the ending. Now, did I hate the game? No, It was OK, but it was a big let down compared to the other COD's that I played. Should I get my money back? No, I played the game. I definitely did not get 60 bucks worth of enjoyment out of it, but I don't feel the game company owes me anything for me not liking it as well. You take a chance on anything you buy. Even that test drive of the car is but only a few minutes. How about asking them to let you test drive it for 4 weeks to let you to "decide" if you want it. I mean, cars are expected to last you for 5+ years, compared to a video game that might hold a persons interest for 1 month to a year if your lucky. Dont you think that 4 weeks should be given for the test drive? Oh and while your at it, make sure that they throw in the gas that you will use for the next four weeks also. Show me how many car dealerships are going to answer yes to that one.
People act like it costs nothing to give a free trial. That is not the case. They have bandwidth and server costs to consider while doing that, not to mention the entire problem of gold sellers that pray on free trials like salt on a slug. Yes, it would be nice if companies gave free trials but people act like its a right for them to have it and its not. It is very simple. Buy it, dont buy it, it's your choice.
How can you classify a game with say a program like Photshop. You know what photoshop is used for and that is why you bought it. Should you get your money back because you don't like how they did their menus? The program works perfectly fine, but you don't like the menus because they go down the side instead of going across the top. A game on the other hand is HIGHLY subjective in if the person will consider it fun or not. Do you ever see a game box saying, You will have fun or your money back! I am going to go out on a limb here and say, you probably have not. Sorry, like I said, I just can not understand that thinking.
No one is holding a gun to the game companies heads telling them that they MUST offer a free trial. They are doing it because they want to sell their product. They don't have any inherent right to my money or my business. If they want my business they are going to have to EARN it by offering features that are compelling enough to me to make me want to buy it. If they aren't willing to do that I'm SURE that some of their competitors WILL.... and they'll get my business instead. If they can't handle that...then they should find some other less competitive line of business.....or be comfortable with fewer sales.
One of THE MOST IMPORTANT features in advertising a product to me, and to many others in this sector is the ability to TRY OUT a product to see if it's worth the purchase price. A company, IMO, that is afraid to give potential buyers such an opportunity lacks confidence in the quality of their own work..... and is certainly not likely to earn my business.
They are certainly free not to offer such a trial if they choose or if they are unable to afford to do so.....just like they are free not to advertise..... but if they don't. They shouldn't expect many people to buy their products.... especialy when their competitors ARE offering such features.
Simply put...if a company wants me to buy it's product it has to PROVE to me that such a product is worth purchasing. It's word...or the word of a proffesional reviewer are simply not good enough for that. Though I HAVE bought products sight unseen based on the reccomendations of freinds who's taste I know and who know my taste that have tried them.
Most products you buy in a store you can return if the product doesn't live up to expectations. Even car companies are starting to offer refunds. Software is one place this is almost universally not possible without alot of grief. EBgames policy is not to accept returns on opened software. They sometimes do if you put up enough of a fuss. This makes demo's and trials almost a necessity, and I think they should be available from about the 2nd day after launch if the servers aren't overwhelmed.
I'm expecting NOT to play STO. Most of what I've heard about it doesn't meet my expectations of what would be entertaining for me for the genre. I have no idea whether it will be a well put together product or not.....there are some things that hint which it may not be....but really there is no way of knowing that for sure until it's gone gold and the NDA is lifted. However, I can pretty much tell with alot of the decisions which they have made it is not going to be the flavor of game that I am going to find fun.
I mean it's all well and good to say that they have their own "vision" of the game.....so does the guy who put's ketchup on vanilla ice cream..... I'm certainly not going to tell him he's wrong....just don't expect me to go near that kind of mess with a 10ft pole.
If they offer a free trial... I MAY check it out.... just to see first hand what they've actualy done with it..... I'm curious that way....I'm not really expecting it will change my mind about the game..... but who the heck knows for sure...they could end up surprising me.
Not decided on whether I'll try it if they offer a free trial though.....depends on what else is going on them.....my entertainment time is just as valuable to me as my cash....so I'm a bit picky about how I chose to spend it....I usualy won't invest it in something I think has low odds of panning out for me.
Except that claiming all over the place that the game was rushed doesn't make it necessarily so, no matter how much you want it to be. Fans will favour games that are good, whether they were rushed, as you claim, or not.
My statement is based off dev time (2 years, which is unheard of for a modern MMO that is any good) and the fact they are cutting content (such as Klingon content). Such things are the sign of a rushed game. CO was also made similarly and it is generally regarded as rushed too. Of course, I don't expect such arguments to make an impact on someone who ignores Dev statements regarding Klingon content and seems to believe the game might be released with significant PvE content for Klingons.
I really don't understand this way of thinking. If they dont give it to me for free, then I aint buying it. Doesn't that just sound wrong? And people wonder why game companies go under. If its not pirated or free, we just wont buy it. Sorry, but I feel this is the kind of attitude that makes our world a worse place to live in. When I see stuff like this, I always have this vision in my head of some dude going into a Mcdonalds and says, Hey I want to try one of them thar Big Macs. If I like it, I might actually pay for the next one but I figure I wont like it anyways so dont actually expect me to buy one.
It doesn't sound wrong at all. Nobody is asking for the company to give them something for free; just a taste before shelling out $50. A two week game trial is hardly equivalent to eating a whole Big Mac, unless the game in question is very weak on content.
Reviews are subjective and and box cover descriptions are notoriously inaccurate (really, is every game "new and exciting?") It is usually impossible to return a game for full refund if it does not meet your expectations. I don't know about you, but anything that costs $50 that didn't work as expected, I would return it in a heartbeat. Games should be no different.
Yes reviews are subjective and its up to the consumer to do his own research before he buys but even that does not guarantee you will get what you expected. Case in point. I loved all the COD games that came out and when COD:MW2 came out with a 60 buck price tag, I figured, hey, I loved all the other ones, what should be different about this one other than I am paying an extra 10 bucks more for it, for no good reason that I could see. Well, Beat it in 6.5 hours, was disappointed in the overall progression through the game and definitely did not like the ending. Now, did I hate the game? No, It was OK, but it was a big let down compared to the other COD's that I played. Should I get my money back? No, I played the game. I definitely did not get 60 bucks worth of enjoyment out of it, but I don't feel the game company owes me anything for me not liking it as well. You take a chance on anything you buy. Even that test drive of the car is but only a few minutes. How about asking them to let you test drive it for 4 weeks to let you to "decide" if you want it. I mean, cars are expected to last you for 5+ years, compared to a video game that might hold a persons interest for 1 month to a year if your lucky. Dont you think that 4 weeks should be given for the test drive? Oh and while your at it, make sure that they throw in the gas that you will use for the next four weeks also. Show me how many car dealerships are going to answer yes to that one.
People act like it costs nothing to give a free trial. That is not the case. They have bandwidth and server costs to consider while doing that, not to mention the entire problem of gold sellers that pray on free trials like salt on a slug. Yes, it would be nice if companies gave free trials but people act like its a right for them to have it and its not. It is very simple. Buy it, dont buy it, it's your choice.
How can you classify a game with say a program like Photshop. You know what photoshop is used for and that is why you bought it. Should you get your money back because you don't like how they did their menus? The program works perfectly fine, but you don't like the menus because they go down the side instead of going across the top. A game on the other hand is HIGHLY subjective in if the person will consider it fun or not. Do you ever see a game box saying, You will have fun or your money back! I am going to go out on a limb here and say, you probably have not. Sorry, like I said, I just can not understand that thinking.
No one is holding a gun to the game companies heads telling them that they MUST offer a free trial. They are doing it because they want to sell their product. They don't have any inherent right to my money or my business. If they want my business they are going to have to EARN it by offering features that are compelling enough to me to make me want to buy it. If they aren't willing to do that I'm SURE that some of their competitors WILL.... and they'll get my business instead. If they can't handle that...then they should find some other less competitive line of business.....or be comfortable with fewer sales.
One of THE MOST IMPORTANT features in advertising a product to me, and to many others in this sector is the ability to TRY OUT a product to see if it's worth the purchase price. A company, IMO, that is afraid to give potential buyers such an opportunity lacks confidence in the quality of their own work..... and is certainly not likely to earn my business.
They are certainly free not to offer such a trial if they choose or if they are unable to afford to do so.....just like they are free not to advertise..... but if they don't. They shouldn't expect many people to buy their products.... especialy when their competitors ARE offering such features.
Simply put...if a company wants me to buy it's product it has to PROVE to me that such a product is worth purchasing. It's word...or the word of a proffesional reviewer are simply not good enough for that. Though I HAVE bought products sight unseen based on the reccomendations of freinds who's taste I know and who know my taste that have tried them.
Offering free trials is a rather new concept in MMO's. If you look back, most free trials(if they actually had them) came years after the game was released. A few have put out trials right from the start and thats cool to, but to make such demands that either a company put out a free trial or I simply wont play is absurd. As another poster mentioned, the early game is usually the most polished compared to the rest of the game. So now if they offer free trials and you like it and decide to play it, then find out just shortly after the trial area that you don't like the game, then what are you going to do? People will then start complaining that the free trial is just false advertisement and that the company ripped them off. It is a no win situation. You know how game companies sell games and have been doing it forever? Word of mouth! It is the best form of advertisement these game companies have and always have had, and that was long before free trials ever hit the market.
Then you have the problem with free trials that is absolutely killing MMO's now and that is it allows gold spammers free reign to spam their services and annoy everyone in the game. So what do game companies have to do? Then they have to start limiting tells and mail and zone wide or world wide speach to keep the spammers from annoying everyone. Then that affects the folks that actually are trying the trial for its actual intended purpose of bringing them into the game, but now they can't ask questions because of the rules the game company had to put in place to keep the spammers down. It is a no win situation there to.
In a nut shell, I would rather an MMO not have a free trial at all, ever, so that it doesn't give open season to gold spammers. Now, if they didnt exist, it would not be much of an issue at all. So, does that mean some people wont try it because there isn't a free trial, sure, to bad for them. But it will make everyones life much better that actually paid for the game so they don't have to put up with that crap every single time they log into a game. It is the exact reason I quit Aion. You could not log in without getting dozens of tells, gold spammers spamming every single channel and I do mean spamming to the point of you could not see anything else but their stupid advertisements.
And dont think there wont be spammers in STO. I mean, look at DDO. There is absolutely no reason at all to buy gold in that game, yet they are there and it seems they are doing well and this was long before they went free to play.
To me that is completely reasonable. Your not planning on playing and even a free trial which would cost you nothing but time, is still probably not going to change your mind. This is one of the more intelligent posts that I have seen on here. No bitching about this or that, you simply don't think you will like what they did and your probably not going to buy it. Kudos to you sir, for being able to make a decision without bashing the game or the company!
This is a surprisingly hard realization. Sometimes I get frustrated by people who evidently haven't made it, but then I remember that I, as a Tolkienite, had to go through it with both Peter Jackson's films and Turbine's MMO before I really got a grip on how to approach the phenomenon.
Tolkien's own work, detailed as it was, involved a great deal of literary interpretation and personal aesthetic imagination on the part of the reader, so I went into Jackon's films not realizing then that my imagination of Arda may be quite different from Jackson's without being any more or less correct. Once I did make that realization, I found that these films had reshaped my expectations of the setting such that Lord of the Rings Online seemed nauseatingly bright and fluffy. Yet, again, I came to like it very much.
This may seem like a very simple thing that everyone should know—it is and they do—yet it's hard. It's easier to dismiss another's objectivity as subjective than to accept one's own subjectivity as subjective. Interesting psychology, that.
'That evolution, the Holocaust, and the moon landing happened is just your opinion! Also, Legolas can't be blond, he's Sindarin.'
Yes and this is something that I fear most people have not been able to realize. And instead of coming to that realization, they end up bashing the game company and game because it doesn't conform to their ideas of what they want the game to be. I have been a huge comic book fan all my life. When I was young, they made several cartoons based off the comic books and you know what the first thing that hit me was when I saw the cartoons? This may sound strange, but, it was their voices. They sounded nothing like they did from the comic book. People don't realize their how much their own imagination influences them. In my mind, all those characters had their own voices, personalities, the works. Yet, when they hit the tv, they sounded nothing like they should have. Its a shame more people can't make that realization.
WoW's free trial doesn't allow gold sellers and spammers an outlet. You simply limit chat with the community, no zone or global type of chat just say only. You also do not allow them to trade with others, use the mail system or the auction house.
Whats so hard about that?
As far as STO... I'm not really expecting many if any gold sellers really. Just look at CO, not a seller in site lol. There may be some but there isn't enough of a presence for most or any to notice if they are there.
The idea of a trial is to let the game stand or fall on it's own merits. Not being able to use the auction house or chat with others or use the mail system or trade isn't a huge loss and people can still get a feel of the game.
In any case, if things go like CO did it's not like people will have to wait long for the free trials to start. It was what, two months after launch before the first free weekend?
But in any case, this is why I simply can not take you seriously...
but to make such demands that either a company put out a free trial or I simply wont play is absurd.
That right there makes you a part of the problem. I mean something is seriously wrong when someone thinks it's absurd to want to know what your buying it before you buy it.
The rest of your post doesn't make a lick of sense and I will spare you by not commenting on it, suffice to say I highly doubt you are 42 lol.
Devs hype and hype a game and tout it as being such a great thing, if there so confident in there game it's time they put up or shut up. No game ever lives up to it's hype.
What a free trial essential does is let you know if the game will work with your rig as not all do regardless of wether you exceed the specs or not. Look at the MANY people that simply could not play CO, they were simply out the cash with JACK to show for it. Look at DnL, lots of people got ripped off on that one because the game simply didn't work for many and well we won't go into the rest of DnL's issues lol. Then it also lets you get a feel for the systems in the game. Do you like how the combat feels, do you like the look of the world and toons, do you like the sounds, do you like the story so far, all these are good things to know before buying an MMO as the feel of combat can put someone off the game.
At this point I do not think your a gamer at all. I think your a dev, for either STO or another MMO. You talk about how bad a free trial is and how it does no good ... and you come up with the most asinine reasons why.
-------A FACT-------
There is no Valid argument against a free trial for an MMO
-------A FACT-------
Sure there are some issues that could happen but they are issues than can be resolved.
No matter what argument you think you may have against free trials, please keep this is mind.
-------A FACT-------
There is no Valid argument against a free trial for an MMO
-------A FACT-------
You may be of the opinion that you do have a valid argument against free trials. But again your opinion in this case is wrong because....
-------A FACT-------
There is no Valid argument against a free trial for an MMO
-------A FACT-------
I have four other good friends with almost the same taste in gaming, and usually when something new, MMOwise comes out, and none of us played the beta, we will split the price of one copy and play for a month.
This usually works out well, as many of the recently released games have been "eh" at best. In so doing, we have save a lot of cash and bought many fewer coasters, as compared to listening to the hype and buying multiple copies based off reviews.
Sometimes even the free trials can be misleading, as the beginner areas are often the most polished.
Better to split the cost of a game that might turn out to be bad, than get a new $50 coaster each time.
If I play STO at/near launch at all (which is fairly doubtful, at this point) it will likely be through this method.
That is a very good idea.
Let me ask you, if you all decide you like the game, who gets to keep the account?
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
That is a very good idea.
Let me ask you, if you all decide you like the game, who gets to keep the account?
If it is something that everyone likes a lot ends up buying, the guy who bought the original copy kicks everyone their $10 back (the last time this happened was with SWG back in 2003), except the person keeping the game, which ends up costing him the full price of $50.
If some but not all of the people plan on buying the game, the people that want their $10 back towards buying their own copy, they can have it, with the original buyer getting the "discount" from the $10s others who did not like what they see kicked in. This is usually what happens, and considered fair, since the original buyer went through the trouble of getting the game in the first place (and usually provides hospitality on "kick-off" night).
It works out that most of us that would otherwise have bought the game to try it out and end up having been disappointed, save $40. It was thus with AoC, WAR, Aion, and several other titles over the last few years.
WoW's free trial doesn't allow gold sellers and spammers an outlet. You simply limit chat with the community, no zone or global type of chat just say only. You also do not allow them to trade with others, use the mail system or the auction house.
Whats so hard about that?
That was exactly my point. If you severely limit what a person can say in a trial, then it severely limits them asking general questions. Sure they can use say, but how many people really pay attention to say anymore. I know I don't unless im in an area with very few people. The other problem with this is that the user may not understand why they can't talk in regular chat. They might not understand that it is to keep gold spammers down.
As far as STO... I'm not really expecting many if any gold sellers really. Just look at CO, not a seller in site lol. There may be some but there isn't enough of a presence for most or any to notice if they are there.
Im with you there, but I felt the same about DDO and it got its fair share of spamming.
The idea of a trial is to let the game stand or fall on it's own merits. Not being able to use the auction house or chat with others or use the mail system or trade isn't a huge loss and people can still get a feel of the game.
Except when they have questions and get frustrated because they can't get an answer in say, because they can't use a larger channel to ask those questions. It is huge deal and can make or break a game for someone if they feel the community are nothing but snobs and wont answer them, Not realizing that it is that same free trial that is part of the problem
In any case, if things go like CO did it's not like people will have to wait long for the free trials to start. It was what, two months after launch before the first free weekend?
But in any case, this is why I simply can not take you seriously...
but to make such demands that either a company put out a free trial or I simply wont play is absurd.
That right there makes you a part of the problem. I mean something is seriously wrong when someone thinks it's absurd to want to know what your buying it before you buy it.
The FACT is that your demanding a free trial or you wont play. Don't you consider that as a form of extortion from the players perspective? I demand you give me a bic mac or I will never buy another burger from your company. If I was the company I would tell you to piss off and not worry about you. Now, Its not that I am not sympathetic to your plight. I fully understand your reasons for wanting a free trial and can support them. But to demand a free trial is something different. But I guess that is the difference between us. I can see both sides where you can only accept your side or none at all.
The rest of your post doesn't make a lick of sense and I will spare you by not commenting on it, suffice to say I highly doubt you are 42 lol.
Thats ok, I wont lose any sleep over you not believing my age. I know how old I am and thats all that is important. But I do find it odd that while we have been having this conversation, I have never once thought about your age and or even felt the need to question your age. Again, the differences between us I guess.
Devs hype and hype a game and tout it as being such a great thing, if there so confident in there game it's time they put up or shut up. No game ever lives up to it's hype.
Devs usually arent the ones hyping the games. The publisher is. And I would disagree that no game has ever lived up to its hype. There have been several that have surpassed it by miles!
What a free trial essential does is let you know if the game will work with your rig as not all do regardless of wether you exceed the specs or not. Look at the MANY people that simply could not play CO, they were simply out the cash with JACK to show for it. Look at DnL, lots of people got ripped off on that one because the game simply didn't work for many and well we won't go into the rest of DnL's issues lol. Then it also lets you get a feel for the systems in the game. Do you like how the combat feels, do you like the look of the world and toons, do you like the sounds, do you like the story so far, all these are good things to know before buying an MMO as the feel of combat can put someone off the game.
This has been the first logical reason you have made in regards to free trials. At least the part about hardware.
At this point I do not think your a gamer at all. I think your a dev, for either STO or another MMO. You talk about how bad a free trial is and how it does no good ... and you come up with the most asinine reasons why.
Thank you for the kind thoughts but you would be wrong. I have stated in other posts that I work for an energy company as a scripter. And not even the programming kind of scripter at that. I take general software that is bought and repackage it for delivery within our company. Not a glamorous job by any means.
I dont think I ever said a trial does no good. I have stated that that due to gold spammers, the companies are better off with out them. Nor have I said that a free trial is bad, with the exception of gold spammers. What I have said is that it is absurd for a person to DEMAND that a company put out a trial or you simply wont buy their products.
-------A FACT-------
I will just stop you right here. Stating opinion as fact is what makes people look ignorant. And not trying to attack you here, but there is a whole lot of ignorance below this red.
There is no Valid argument against a free trial for an MMO
-------A FACT-------
Sure there are some issues that could happen but they are issues than can be resolved.
No matter what argument you think you may have against free trials, please keep this is mind.
-------A FACT-------
There is no Valid argument against a free trial for an MMO
-------A FACT-------
You may be of the opinion that you do have a valid argument against free trials. But again your opinion in this case is wrong because....
-------A FACT-------
There is no Valid argument against a free trial for an MMO
-------A FACT-------
@ DoomsDay01
The FACT is that your demanding a free trial or you wont play. Don't you consider that as a form of extortion from the players perspective?
Now wanting to see what your buying before you buy it is extortion?! lol... ok I get it, I was trolled hard lol. You did a good job.
I will just stop you right here. Stating opinion as fact is what makes people look ignorant. And not trying to attack you here, but there is a whole lot of ignorance below this red.
Wasn't stating an opinion lol. Sorry it's a fact, having a free trial for an MMO is nothing but a boon for the consumer. You talked about RMT's taking advantage of it, this problem has already been resolved case and point WoW's free trials.
You talked about server congestion. This problem has already been taken care of, case and point DAoC's trial or other MMO's that stick you on an island.
You talked about the cost for the devs to do so. This has already been addressed, case and point Age of Conans $5 dollars for the trial. Some others charged a dollar lol.
I stated a fact, there is no Valid argument against free trials lol. If you care to prove me wrong then do so. Until then your just yapping and every point you've made has already been addressed by other MMO's with there free trials.
When you wish to get serious and drop the charade let me know, I'm always game for a good debate.
I hate to burst your bubble, but you really need to go back and look up the definitions of FACT and OPINION. I have nothing against Free Trials, but saying that there is no Valid argument against free trials is an opinion because what is considered Valid is not just determined by YOUR point of view.
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
I hate to burst your bubble, but you really need to go back and look up the definitions of FACT and OPINION. I have nothing against Free Trials, but saying that there is no Valid argument against free trials is an opinion because what is considered Valid is not just determined by YOUR point of view.
That is your opinion, but your opinion does not invalidate the fact I presented.
Opinion: a belief or judgment that rests on grounds insufficient to produce complete certainty.
Fact: something that actually exists; reality; truth
Fact: Every MMO has eventually adds a free trial unless they shut down prior to having a chance to do so. The reason is to increase sub's by giving people an opportunity to check the game out with out spending money on it or spending additional money on it making it more likely they will give it a try.
Fact: Free trials can be a boon to the consumer and will only impact existing customers if done poorly.
Fact: Not having a free trial only benefits the developers as they believe more people will pay to try the game based on the hype surrounding it if they are flying blind.
Fact: Unless your among those counting on the flying blind box sales for revenue then there is no valid argument against a properly done free trial.
Fact: If you are among those counting on the flying blind box sales then the only logical arguments to be made are based on taking other peoples money knowing theres a good chance there not going to enjoy your product but counting on them buying it regardless due to the hype surrounding the game initially.
This while a valid argument to some is not a valid argument against free trials. The reason why this is not a valid argument?
Simple
Consumer protection laws are designed to ensure fair competition and the free flow of truthful information in the marketplace. The laws are designed to prevent businesses that engage in fraud or specified unfair practices from gaining an advantage over competitors and may provide additional protection for the weak and those unable to take care of themselves.
It's not only immoral, it's illegal.
The only forms of valid arguments that could be made are ones that revolve around increasing the developer or publishers revenue and these arguments are solely based on not letting the consumer know what there buying because it's better for our wallets which again is illegal making them all invalid arguments.
If you care to dispute my facts... then by all means do so. Until you have disputed them though, accept that I hold these facts in higher regard than your opinion lol.
PS: I actually enjoyed bursting your bubble
My expectations are that I get to play a game created (inspired) by a show that I love. I expect to play for fun and let the chips fall where they mean. The game sounds decent as it stands right now and you know what? I am satisfied with what I have heard to this point. I will participate in Open Beta to help the game improve as much as it can then play the game on a regular basis.
...and who knows? What would happen if STO turns out to be a really good game and really surprising hit there will still be whining and moaning and gnashing of teeth.. but that's par for the course. I truly look forward to playing STO plain and simple, faults and positive stuff regardless.
I hope to see many of you in Open Beta at least.. can never have enough friends.
Take care all and I'll read all the new posts come January 2nd! Be well. Happy New Years to you all.
I like how you try to present opinions as fact even though they aren't. Good try though. I also like how you gloss over the ability for someone in a trial trying to get information and can't because they are locked down to not speaking to others DUE to the companies being forced to do that because of goldspam. That hurts the company almost as much as not having a free trial.
Talking about islands. They had to do extra coding to do something like that. and MOST of all those games you talked about (including ones you didnt) did not start with a free trial right off the bat. So your point has no real validation for people demanding a free trial when a game first starts. Hrmm, sorry, but I believe your facts have been busted! Now, if you want to try again, feel free (pun intended) to give it a try.
I like how you try to present opinions as fact even though they aren't. Good try though. I also like how you gloss over the ability for someone in a trial trying to get information and can't because they are locked down to not speaking to others DUE to the companies being forced to do that because of goldspam. That hurts the company almost as much as not having a free trial.
Talking about islands. They had to do extra coding to do something like that. and MOST of all those games you talked about (including ones you didnt) did not start with a free trial right off the bat. So your point has no real validation for people demanding a free trial when a game first starts. Hrmm, sorry, but I believe your facts have been busted! Now, if you want to try again, feel free (pun intended) to give it a try.
The trial is to TRY the game. Not get information from others and any info you need can be asked for on forums such as this one. It's part of the reason for the forums. I also stated you would have access to "Say" such is the case in WoW. Plently of people are generally around the starting area's you can ask what you need to ask and if they aren't or can't the forums aren't exactly locked away in limbo.
And no lol that doesn't hurt the company limiting trial accounts to "say" only, the new player gets to experience the game and doesn't have to deal with the Chuck Norris jokes, the Go back to WoW comments, the flames and petty squabbles that plauge pretty much every MMO's general chat, zone chat or LFG chat. This of course is merely my opinion.
And yes it would take development time to get a well done free trial setup. It's not like it would add years to the development cycle. Your talking weeks to a few months max needed to create a decent free trial and thats if you decided to make a new zone specifically for it instead of simply copying another zone and tweaking it.
While I do not program in C++ I am good with Visual Basic, I am also an animator and 3D artist. If I can whip up a decent sized playable area in a few weeks with the tools I have considering this is just my hobby and I rarely take on projects from others I am sure an experienced TEAM can out do me. If they can't well... somethings wrong with the team.
In any case, if they want my money why should they not have to show me why I should give it to them? That free trial, or free trial area is going to be developed sooner or later what difference does it make if it's done sooner? I could tell you the difference, but I'd rather hear what you come up with first lol.
And now on to your point about MMO's do not launch with the free trial....
You are correct, and that is the problem we are currently discussing. If they did launch with free trials we would not be here discussing this right now. My point has validation because they DID not launch with free trials and the retnetion rate on many of those MMO's was horrible. AoC is a good example. 700k + box sales, tons of hype, after the first month not even half that number re-subbed. Why? Because the hype as usual was a lie. This left tons of people feeling cheated, they then went out on a crusade to roast AoC alive, not all but many did. A free trial would have saved a lot of those consumers money, it would have spared Funcoms reputation and the game would have likely not been roasted and critisized as harshly as it was. In Age of Conans case I believe a free trial would have saved the consumers and Funcom a lot of grief. This of course is opinion.
However none of this debunks the fact that there is no valid argument against free trials. . It's somethine every MMO eventually has anyways lol.
Feel free to try again, because you have failed yet again.
Please put some thought and effort into your next post lol, this is like debating with a 5 year old.
This is an opinion, not a fact. I'm sure there is a P2P MMO out there that does not offer a free trial. The developers/distributors of said MMO would surely have a valid reason for their lack of a free trial, thereby debunking your "fact".
Also, hardly any MMOs offer a free trial upon release, because they want people to buy the game based on the 'hype', as it were. Thus, they make as much money as they can on initial box sales. There are many people that will buy the retail box who otherwise wouldn't if a free trial was available at release. That is indeed a "valid argument" from a financial standpoint.
While I agree with this, it is an opinion, not a fact. I'm sure there is a P2P MMO out there that does not offer a free trial. The developers/distributors of said MMO would surely have a valid reason for their lack of a free trial, thereby debunking your "fact".
I'm sure there is a P2P MMO out there that does not offer a free trial.
They all do eventually unless they close down before getting a chance to lol.
In any case, it is still a fact lol I just wasn't going to state directly that it was a subjective fact.
A developer or publisher may find valid reasons to not offer a free trial, however these reasons work in there favor and against the consumer. Whats valid to a Developer and or Publisher is not neccessarily going to be Valid to the consumer especially when it comes to something like a free trial.
It is a fact, it's just a subjective fact. And the only reason I went on about it was because I had become tired of Doomsday stating over and over that wanting a free trial for an MMO before purchasing it was akin to extortion lol.
I rarely post half cocked lol, theres generally a trap or an ace up my sleeve. Was going to wait till Doomsday had drolled on a bit more about my "opinion" before stating the subjective fact comment. But it seems he has gotten bored and thus so have I.
In response to your Edit....
Also, hardly any MMOs offer a free trial upon release, because they want people to buy the game based on the 'hype', as it were. Thus, they make as much money as they can on initial box sales. There are many people that will buy the retail box who otherwise wouldn't if a free trial was available at release. That is indeed a "valid argument" from a financial standpoint.
Which is why I posted the above.
Subjective fact: A subjective fact is one that is only true under certain conditions, at certain times, in certain places, or for certain people.