PvP can be awesome. It really depends on the game and how well balanced the PvP actually is, though. It's simply an unfortunate fact that "hard core" PvP'ers are predominantly attracted to games that provide dramatic advantages to one player over another, for whatever reason (level, gear, etc). Anyone that has played a full loot (or similar) PvP oriented MMO knows that these l33tf@gs always end up operating in one way... generally avoiding combat with their peers (for fear of losing gear/xp/points/etc) while focusing mightily on n00b carnage that serves as ambrosia to their sensitive egos. This is not real PvP. Real PvP involves risk as well as reward. These "hard core" wannabes might as well be playing a game on rails, as there is no challenge in their daily activities. Well, avoiding players of their own level might present some challenge from time to time I suppose. But, in the end, if you were to chart the average difficulty of the content experienced by pure PvE'ers and contrast that with these "hard core" losers, you'll find the supposed "carebears" engage more difficult content on a daily basis. So really the OP is right on that reversal. However, back to normal PvP. In games that provide everyone a decent shot (by incorporating a certain degree of player skill into a fight's outcome for instance), there will probably never be a more fun experience than players fighting other real players.
item mall is future thats for sure,and full loot is pretty realistic,but.
I can atleast see it allready that I can loot someones items and he/she bought some of those for real cash.
but.
before that MMORPGs needs real rules and laws,and after that PvP might be even fun :>
I always have thought that PvP should be restricted to Arena style game play. Just two sides, who know when the fight is going to start.
Anything else, is always going to be exploiting an advantage you got and is the domain of assholes who just want to harass other players. But don't worry, they come up with plenty of excuses of why they should be allowed to use other paying gamers as their entertainment.
And foolishly, game companies seem to cater to them, despite countless failed PvP games being filled with nothing but gankers waiting for any idiot to come along who is trying the game out.
It's annoying when you pass over the blue square to the left of 'Report' and in the millisecond it takes to get to and click 'Report' this dumbass 'Add as Freind' thing pops in your way and now you have some moron on your friend's list.
-- Whammy - a 64x64 miniRPG - RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right? - FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?
PvP can be awesome. It really depends on the game and how well balanced the PvP actually is, though. It's simply an unfortunate fact that "hard core" PvP'ers are predominantly attracted to games that provide dramatic advantages to one player over another, for whatever reason (level, gear, etc). Anyone that has played a full loot (or similar) PvP oriented MMO knows that these l33tf@gs always end up operating in one way... generally avoiding combat with their peers (for fear of losing gear/xp/points/etc) while focusing mightily on n00b carnage that serves as ambrosia to their sensitive egos. This is not real PvP. Real PvP involves risk as well as reward. These "hard core" wannabes might as well be playing a game on rails, as there is no challenge in their daily activities.
This is not a personal stab at Katrar I found this post well written and informative. But the problem is that the PvP leet people always wins they have dominated every PvP game since the beginning of the hobby, they drive away the non leet players and when all easy prey is gone they start attacking each other (at this time they usually write long posts in forums all over how good and fun and exiting game soandso is). Finally there is no population left and they all say "well this game was not well designed in a real hardcore game this would not happen, its the designers fault". And this happens again and again. it is like the Alcoholic who says that "Well this time it will be different, trust me" and it never is. And still we see new PvP games being released when there is good evidence that "true PvP" is not a feature most subscribers want in their game something like WoWs battleground maybe but that is not really PvP in that sense.
We all have a little carebear inside us. It is a very fragile. We need to take care and not ignore the softy pinky spot deep inside us and cherish it. Why do people hate us? They expose our carebear side by attacking 20 levels above and make cry.
Don't be terrorized! You're more likely to die of a car accident, drowning, fire, or murder! More people die every year from prescription drugs than terrorism LOL!
For me the problem is that the level difference just makes too much difference. If you also add the advantage you get from taking someone unaware (possibly already fighting a mob) there really is no contest.
In about 3 months now of playing Aion I've only once been attacked (1 vs 1) by someone of lower level than me, and only twice at same level. I suspect I've been attacked about 200 - 250 times. It does seem a pity that most PvP is so unbalanced, but I guess that it what you get in MMOs.
There should be spells or abilities like 'reflect spell power' or 'ultimate riposte' etc. where the damage scales according to the level difference between you and your attacker in such a way that you can actually turn the tables on a higher level attacker if you skillfully time a counter correctly.
Furthermore your PvP rank (and title) should depend on the average level differece. So to make it to the top ranks you have to fight same level or above. It would be really funny if someone who always fought really low level characters had some title like 'lowbie-killer' so people knew they werealways taking the easy kills.
Originally posted by xephonics It is kinda true tho, atleast for a decent portion of the "hardcore" pvp'ers
Your right and so is the op.
Lets also had exploiting game mechanics which were not intended to work in the manner some "hardcore pvpers" use them to avoid consequences (going red) to the list along with justifying hacking and macro'ing. It is truly sad what some people consider to be okay for the sake at "wtfpwn'ing" in pvp even though they are fighting the equivalent of a 5 year old in game. What is even more laughable is when they make videos of their ganking and then its discovered they only go after n00bs or they are exposed for hacking/exploits after proclaiming themselves PVP gods.
Games I've played/tried out:WAR, LOTRO, Tabula Rasa, AoC, EQ1, EQ2, WoW, Vangaurd, FFXI, D&DO, Lineage 2, Saga Of Ryzom, EvE Online, DAoC, Guild Wars,Star Wars Galaxies, Hell Gate London, Auto Assault, Grando Espada ( AKA SoTNW ), Archlord, CoV/H, Star Trek Online, APB, Champions Online, FFXIV, Rift Online, GW2.
Comments
item mall is future thats for sure,and full loot is pretty realistic,but.
I can atleast see it allready that I can loot someones items and he/she bought some of those for real cash.
but.
before that MMORPGs needs real rules and laws,and after that PvP might be even fun :>
Generation P
I always have thought that PvP should be restricted to Arena style game play. Just two sides, who know when the fight is going to start.
Anything else, is always going to be exploiting an advantage you got and is the domain of assholes who just want to harass other players. But don't worry, they come up with plenty of excuses of why they should be allowed to use other paying gamers as their entertainment.
And foolishly, game companies seem to cater to them, despite countless failed PvP games being filled with nothing but gankers waiting for any idiot to come along who is trying the game out.
It's annoying when you pass over the blue square to the left of 'Report' and in the millisecond it takes to get to and click 'Report' this dumbass 'Add as Freind' thing pops in your way and now you have some moron on your friend's list.
- RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right?
- FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?
This is not a personal stab at Katrar I found this post well written and informative. But the problem is that the PvP leet people always wins they have dominated every PvP game since the beginning of the hobby, they drive away the non leet players and when all easy prey is gone they start attacking each other (at this time they usually write long posts in forums all over how good and fun and exiting game soandso is). Finally there is no population left and they all say "well this game was not well designed in a real hardcore game this would not happen, its the designers fault". And this happens again and again. it is like the Alcoholic who says that "Well this time it will be different, trust me" and it never is. And still we see new PvP games being released when there is good evidence that "true PvP" is not a feature most subscribers want in their game something like WoWs battleground maybe but that is not really PvP in that sense.
Chi puo dir com'egli arde é in picciol fuoco.
He who can describe the flame does not burn.
Petrarch
I agree with the OP.
We all have a little carebear inside us. It is a very fragile. We need to take care and not ignore the softy pinky spot deep inside us and cherish it. Why do people hate us? They expose our carebear side by attacking 20 levels above and make cry.
Don't be terrorized! You're more likely to die of a car accident, drowning, fire, or murder! More people die every year from prescription drugs than terrorism LOL!
For me the problem is that the level difference just makes too much difference. If you also add the advantage you get from taking someone unaware (possibly already fighting a mob) there really is no contest.
In about 3 months now of playing Aion I've only once been attacked (1 vs 1) by someone of lower level than me, and only twice at same level. I suspect I've been attacked about 200 - 250 times. It does seem a pity that most PvP is so unbalanced, but I guess that it what you get in MMOs.
There should be spells or abilities like 'reflect spell power' or 'ultimate riposte' etc. where the damage scales according to the level difference between you and your attacker in such a way that you can actually turn the tables on a higher level attacker if you skillfully time a counter correctly.
Furthermore your PvP rank (and title) should depend on the average level differece. So to make it to the top ranks you have to fight same level or above. It would be really funny if someone who always fought really low level characters had some title like 'lowbie-killer' so people knew they werealways taking the easy kills.
Your right and so is the op.
Lets also had exploiting game mechanics which were not intended to work in the manner some "hardcore pvpers" use them to avoid consequences (going red) to the list along with justifying hacking and macro'ing. It is truly sad what some people consider to be okay for the sake at "wtfpwn'ing" in pvp even though they are fighting the equivalent of a 5 year old in game. What is even more laughable is when they make videos of their ganking and then its discovered they only go after n00bs or they are exposed for hacking/exploits after proclaiming themselves PVP gods.
Games I've played/tried out:WAR, LOTRO, Tabula Rasa, AoC, EQ1, EQ2, WoW, Vangaurd, FFXI, D&DO, Lineage 2, Saga Of Ryzom, EvE Online, DAoC, Guild Wars,Star Wars Galaxies, Hell Gate London, Auto Assault, Grando Espada ( AKA SoTNW ), Archlord, CoV/H, Star Trek Online, APB, Champions Online, FFXIV, Rift Online, GW2.
Game(s) I Am Currently Playing:
GW2 (+LoL and BF3)