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So this game only offers instanced PvP?!
Christopher8
Member Posts: 134
PvP is accessed in two ways. There are global queues in the UI where you simply pick the scenarios you want to wait in line for and a pop-up window beams you in as soon as one kicks off. The second way is through the map itself. Players can fly to the neutral zone and go to sectors on the map that throw them in line for the queue in question.
To be honest this sounds awful, especially since as of right now it seems no mater where you are Klingon or Fed, any part of space you have to wait for a scenario to pop.
Only difference from this game and Warhammer is that it is in space, and WAR had open PvP.
Comments
Okay, so you quoted the answer to your question. Did you not understand your answer?
I think he is basically asking if that is TRUE and the only form of PvP. I would have assumed the neutral zone would have been like a RvR zone period, but if it just que's ya to sit and spin chatting with the enemy is lame duck sauce.
Okay, so you quoted the answer to your question. Did you not understand your answer?
All I have to say is...
PWNED!
Answered your own question! ^_^
One server for every player will make queues short. If you need to wait, you can continue to PvE as Fed or PvPvE for Klingon. Then enter the scenarios when ready. Not that big of a deal.
The big difference between WAR and STO is WAR is a sword/magic same ol same ol. STO will be a space game with Star Trek mission style PvE with PvP when you want a change. Or mainly PvP for Klingons with PvE as an option if you have to wait. Two completely different games that can not be compaired to each other.
How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them?
R.A.Salvatore
The devs described their PvP as Arena and Battleground style maps so you can take a wild guess where they got their idea of what PvP is.
I was considering trying STO until they made that announcement
Guess it will be another year or two of EVE while waiting for something new and fresh to come out.
try sto pvp, youll like it, the instances serve to ensure the teams are at least semi even in numbers and level, leve tiers make a huge difference, or did before they reactivated the tiers. (tier 1 miranda vs tier 3 bird of prey per say isnt a fight, its a alpha strike massacre, where as tier 3 bop vs tier 3 fed the klingons need to plan out the attack if they want to win or use superior numbers, which is viable with cloaks. every klingon ship but the carrier has a cloak, only birds of prey cloak while under attack, although you have to be cautious doing it as torpedoes destroy hull in seconds so if you cloak with a spread inc ur boned. feds have science vessels that with a good bo can effectively cloak and fire at single targets with some sensor bs so it can completely screw over a lone klingon cruiser (klingons still dont have purchasable boffs to attain any sort of anti sensor jamming abilities so you need to travel in packs and hope the feds arent all packing jammers and thus jam each one of you or youre boned, like i said its like they can cloak and fire on you till it wears off and it lasts like 15-30 seconds so even a science vessel can take your sihelds down and get torps into your hull in 30 seconds, esp since they have other science tricks that hurt shields worse then weapons fire). if they dont screw up the balance too bad this games pvp is epic fun, no open world needed, but theyll need to add scenarios to keep it fresh.
this sort of reminds me of a case of kill the caster first or your entire group is pwned due to having a skill you cannot counter scenerio.
well once they get around to giving klingons ship console gear to equip into their ships console slots and bridge officers with sensor abilities we should in fact be able to attempt to counter the jamming thing or even use it ourselves, although it may only work on science vessels as well, and science ships are the most fragile and least weapon slotted of the fleet. klingons only have heavy cruisers and birds of prey =D o and the raptor assault ship in the escorts as well, but nothing resemblings a science sensor boat. mind you a bird of prey can just battle cloak if he gets jammed, science ships cant mount enough torps to insta gib you, just kill you when you cant cloak mid fight.
"So this game only offers instanced PvP?!"
from the information that has been release, it would seem so
Great I love it when there's BG in my mmo. Arena style pvp is kinda boring but BG are normaly great.
Woot queue from anywhere and beaming to the battle ftw!
But I expect a game like potbs in space.
Going by what we've been told, yes, the PVP is exclusively instanced. Thing is, the whole game is instanced so in a way there'd be no going around it even if the developers tried going with more open PVP.
It's not WAR without the open PVP, because WAR is primarily a PVP game, whereas STO seems to primarily be a PVE game. There's nothing wrong with that in my opinion - you can make a game that's mostly PVE and has some consensual PVP on the side as a change of pace if you want it and it can still be great...
In fact, the thing I just don't understand about the basic design philosophy of this game is related to the above: If it's going to be a primarily PVE game, why put Klingons in as a primarily PVP faction? Isn't a faction that has to do what's pretty much akin to battlegrounds going to get boring rather fast? If WAR has shown us anything, I'd say it's that doing instanced PVP all the time tends to lose its charm after a short while. So, this part of the vision just does not make sense to me. I guess we'll see how it works out, but if what the developers themselves have told us is true, I guess it'd be a better decision to save the Klingon faction for later.
Yes, it's disappointing. It's also damned peculiar. Why go through the motions of creating a backstory that revolves around a war if there's no actual warfare in the game? You have two factions, but one has to be "unlocked" or some such nonsense. There's PVP, but not in any form that affects the map or the game. How can you have a war without shifting front lines? How can you have a war without warfare?
Clearly, any game that's going to call itself Star Trek online has to offer a rich PVE game, and they've at least tried that. How rich it may be remains to be seen. But it seems pretty clear that PVP in STO is nothing but self-contained minigames that have no bearing on the rest of the game. So the best they can hope for is to sustain a small RPer's paradise, because I just don't see the majority of players hanging around after the first month or two.
I've already cancelled my preorder. If they end up pulling a real game out of their hat I'll buy it later, no harm done.
Because contrary to popular opinion, most people don't like PVP. The *war* as I take it is just part of the story line itself. Look at Eve online. it is a pure PVP game and yet, there are thousands of players that never leave protected space, because they don't like PVP. heck, I play Eve and even I rarely leave out of protected space. The problem as I see it is that no company has ever gotten PVP right. Look at the things that people do in Eve just to see what I mean. You got folks that will blow up other folks in protected space just for a chance that something might drop from the ship they destroy that they want. Yet there is no real retaliation for such a thing happening. All that happens is that the aggressor loses his ship, which he will have insurance for and get almost every bit of his money back, and the person that got killed might have been carrying something much more valuable than insurance would have paid for. Now, what they should do, in my opinion, in protected space, if you start attacking someone, they should swoop in and blow your ass up. Then that insurance you bought should be canceled because you were blown up by the police and not another player. However, thats not how the developers think. Nor do most PVP'rs.
In STO, There are objectives in pvp to obtain, so, this could pvp'rs a place to play and pve'rs a place to play. I really don't see a problem with how they have implemented it because as a mainly pve person, I still like to pvp on occasion and this would allow me to do so, without the threat of my ship getting ganked by gank squads that would love nothing better than to make you quit out of the game in frustration because they keep camping you and killing you and all you want to do is complete a mission.
it is a pure PVP game and yet, there are thousands of players that never leave protected space, because they don't like PVP.
And there are also thousands who do. See how that works? You offer something for both groups and your game does well. Offer only one and you lose half the audience. I believe that's what I said in the first place.
And by the way, referring to Eve as a pure PVP game and then pointing out that thousands of players don't PVP is kinda' self contradictory.
Knowing that they had such a short development cycle ahead, I'm not sure why they went this route.
Why not make PvP something you do at an arcade style holodeck found on the space stations? You go and pay credits (or whatever in game monetary system they're using) to buy a ship (of any kind, Klingon, Federation, Romulan, whatever) and you fight it out with other people doing the same thing. Maybe you only get 1/2 or 1/4 XP for killing the ship in the holodeck that you would in space, but you'd still be progressing AND PvP'ing.
Then, when the next race was fully fleshed out, you could release them with PvP available to them the same way and then draw up open PvP sectors between the two in space.
Then you'd have your choice of "playing" at PvP or getting out and having a go at the Federation. You could even throw in serious loss penalties (like losing your ship) to make it serious. Give the folks out in the real neutral territories full XP and even some random loot drops (like warhammer).
You'd have PvP available for everyone so people who are just getting the hang of it can use the holodeck to get their feet wet, without concern for loss ... and then go bat crazy on some peeps when they feel comfortable enough to try for real.
I don't think STO ever endorsed itself as a pvp game, I've personally never liked open pvp in mmo's either. They always lead to unfair fights, i'd rather fight in fair situations and make strategies to win the battle. All of the pvp scenarios sound pretty cool regardless.
But to answer the question, yes its instanced pvp. Star Trek was never about going around ganking people for no reason in space, sure there were wars/battles. But especially the federation was about exploring, and "boldy going where no man has gone before" etc etc.
I am in favour of instanced PvP, but that doesn't mean it can't have an effect in the game world. There could be a battleground for each system in neutral space, and have control of that system go over to the side which won that battleground the most the previous week. The problem with having game-changing effects from PvP is that one side will gain a snowball effect - with beneifts adding up to make them unbeatable and dominant.
PvP with stuff to actually fight for is great, but balancing it to prevent a runaway effect like that is difficult.
You could have a reset after a certain period - say, a month or so.
It's very hard to judge what would be appropriate without knowing what end game is supposed to be. Does anyone know what STO end game is?
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
it is a pure PVP game and yet, there are thousands of players that never leave protected space, because they don't like PVP.
And there are also thousands who do. See how that works? You offer something for both groups and your game does well. Offer only one and you lose half the audience. I believe that's what I said in the first place.
And by the way, referring to Eve as a pure PVP game and then pointing out that thousands of players don't PVP is kinda' self contradictory.
It may be, but that doesn't make it any less true. The fact is, even in protected space a person CAN be attacked and killed but unless you just piss off someone by making smartass comments, they will not attack you. Usually the only way to get attacked in protected space is to be carrying items that are worth billions. You are almost guaranteed to get attacked if there are people scanning ships in the area your in.
And to be honest, pvp vs non pvp, I would venture to guess that the ratio of people that dont want pvp are far higher that those that do. So who is to say that they could lose half their audience if they didnt go that route. But a good game company will try to provide both if they can which cryptic has done in sto, even if it is instanced, it is there.
Open world pvp works fine in a game that only has a few zones to play in, and terrain to play with or against. Open space pvp on the other hand is kind of dumb. Space is big and empty. You'd never find an opponent. If you did, each encounter would be the same flavorless fight in a vacuum as the last one. There has to be another way of getting the principles together, besides accidental.
There are a number of differences between WAR and STO. As others have stated, WAR is a PvP/RvR game. STO appears to be primarily a PvE game, with PvP included.
On the lack of open world PvP, it's a design decision. Pick your poison. An example: The open PvP in WAR was extremely succeptible to the effects of the zerg (all open PvP games are), and suffered from realm imbalances that would last months. So bad was the problem, in fact, that they are often listed as primary causes of the enormous subscription loss the game had.
If STO had open world PvP, some people would complain about the disadvantages inherent in such a system. If it stays with instanced PvP, others (like yourself) will complain about its disadvantages. Long story short: you can't make everyone happy.
Hell hath no fury like an MMORPG player scorned.
Ooooh
A terrible game because you don't like it?
Ooooh
Wait, so your opinion is now fact?
Playing - Champions Online
Unsure Of - Darkfall, Star Trek Online
Waiting For - Star Wars: The Old Republic, All Points Bulletin
Played - Age Of Conan, Everquest II, Mabinogi, Tabula Rasa, Star Wars Galaxies, World Of Warcraft
Pretty much it. The difference is, some that aren't pleased move on to the hundred or so other MMOs either in development or already there that they haven't tried yet. The others decide to go on a pointless crusade to trash the game and look down upon everyone who disagrees with them.
I've played Warhammer and from what I've seen so far, STO is going to be NOTHING like Warhammer.
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
i agree, personally i hated how the warhammer mmo turned out, i didnt flame it, i merely cancled my sub and didnt look back. its a fine game for those that like it, just not my cup of fun tea. on the other hand, ive loved my play test time in sto, its a blast, i love it, ill be buying and subbing it. will everyone love it? well everyone can never aggree on anything, not mmos, not pizza toppings. but im sure lots of people will love it, and some wont, and thats just the way the world works.
Then keep it in the Neutral zone, but apparently, according to the article, you still have to wait for a scen to pop which will bite Cryptic in the ass if there are population woes. Such as what happened with Warhammer.
Warhammer at least had players determine/affect the game to a certain point strats or not. STO has nothing of that sort it seems just scenarios. The fact of the matter there is no sandbox or even a tiny bit of player factor in this game.
Remind me why the back story of this game is war?
i think the review said there was a queue at the neutral zone. so lets hope the klingons are patient.. or not too busy engaging in their own pvp...