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AMD Phenom II X4 questions

CatamountCatamount Member Posts: 773
in Hardware

I just got my new AMD setup a few days ago (minus the video cards, which are still in shipping), and I find myself unfamiliar with a lot of the characteristics of this hardware. Perhaps some of the more saavy users here could give me a hand?

My Hardware is as follows:

Asus Crosshair III Formula AM3 Motherboard

Phenom II X4 965 Black Edition 3.4GHZ 125W revision

G.Skill DDR3 1600 9-9-9-24

First, I notice my FSB/RAM ratio is 1:4 according to CPUZ. On my Core 2 Duo machine, getting it to 1:1 was easy, I had a 400mhz FSB (after a smidge of overclocking), and 400mhz RAM (800mhz effective DDR2 frequency). Now I feel lost. The FSB is reported to be 200mhz by the motherboard (apparently with a 2000mhz effective north bridge frequency, again, according to CPUZ), and the RAM is 800mhz on CPUZ, presumably times two (DDR) for 1600mhz effective frequency, giving the 1:4 ratio. Now, obviously I can't set my RAM to 200mhz (400 effective) just to get a 1:1 FSB/RAM ratio, so is this set up the way it should be? Even with 1:4, would it not still effectively achieve the same thing, as the faster component would still be ready when the slower component was (it would just run through 4 clock cycles instead of 1)? It's not like it's 5:3 or something odd where the two wouldn't sync up at all, so it seems like it would effectively achieve the same thing, but again, I feel lost on this new architecture.

My second question is regarding temperatures. I'm looking to overclock, but I haven't done much of anything because I'm not sure what constitutes a safe temperature. At stock, Prime95 would get Core Temp to report a temperature of about 60C and 62C when I upped the multiplier by one for 3.6ghz , and while that's hardly abnormal for a core temperature (my C2D E8400 hit the high 50s with half the cores), I'm not sure where to set the boundary. Core Temp reported the max safe temperature to be a hair over 100C for my C2D, which Intel confirmed, but it's not giving that information for my Phenom II. In fact, it's not even giving per-core temperatures, just an overall temperature (likely there's only one sensor in the CPU), but that's neither here nor there I suppose. I'd just like to know where to draw the line on what constitutes "too hot". The motherboard is also no help there, because while it gives 90C auto-shutdown temperatures for the north bridge and south bridge in temp management, it doesn't list anything for the CPU.

Can any experienced Phenom II users here possibly shed some light on my situation? My last AMD rig was a single core Athlon 64 based system, so I've been out of the loop with AMD for a little bit.

Comments

  • Agricola1Agricola1 Member UncommonPosts: 4,977

    Firstly I'm probably not as knowlegable as yourself, but will give my opinion as no one else has.

    1: FSB/RAM

    Your system clock has a 1/4 ratio? With an effective FSB of 2000mhz, with your DDR3 running at 1600mhz I see no need to underclock your system clock. If you want to OC your Ram fine but I don't see any gains in underclocking one to gain a 1:1 ratio. From what you've written it seems to me your RAM will work to its full potential. If you want you can try and OC the RAM as close to 2000MHZ as you can, but I don't see any losses to any performance.

    I wouldn't be concerned about losing CPU performance, remember the FSB interfaces with your GPU too and all other parts of the comp are using that 2000mhz not just your RAM. Really you have no concerns in this department and your comp should be left how it is with a standard system clock in my opinion and no real need for OCing.

     2: Core temp

    I don't do much OCing but I'd not let it get above 60 degrees celcius myself for prolonged periods. For measuring core temps I got PC Probe with my Asus Mobo, but there are many free ones that you can monitor your mobo with.

    Hope this helps.

    "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"

    CS Lewis

  • noquarternoquarter Member Posts: 1,170

    Originally posted by Catamount
    is 1:4 according to CPUZ. On my Core 2 Duo machine, getting it to 1:1 was easy, I had a 400mhz FSB (after a smidge of overclocking), and 400mhz RAM (800mhz effective DDR2 frequency). Now I feel lost. The FSB is reported to be 200mhz by the motherboard (apparently with a 2000mhz effective north bridge frequency, again, according to CPUZ), and the RAM is 800mhz on CPUZ, presumably times two (DDR) for 1600mhz effective frequency, giving the 1:4 ratio. Now, obviously I can't set my RAM to 200mhz (400 effective) just to get a 1:1 FSB/RAM ratio, so is this set up the way it should be? Even with 1:4, would it not still effectively achieve the same thing, as the faster component would still be ready when the slower component was (it would just run through 4 clock cycles instead of 1)? It's not like it's 5:3 or something odd where the two wouldn't sync up at all, so it seems like it would effectively achieve the same thing, but again, I feel lost on this new architecture.

    The RAM in an AM3 system is traced directly to the integrated memory controller in the CPU so relies on CPU speed for its multiplier instead of FSB. The Core design used NB to connect the RAM so used FSB speeds. I read someplace that syncing up ratios doesn't matter with the way the Phenom II is designed, basically the ram is always synced to the CPU because they're on the same clock, and ratio/multiplier doesn't effect performance so aim for highest speed you can get.

    http://www.overclock.net/amd-general/307316-offical-overclocking-guide-amd-socket-am2.html around post 7 and
    http://www.overclockers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=555058 around post #5.

  • CatamountCatamount Member Posts: 773
    Originally posted by noquarter


     

    Originally posted by Catamount

    is 1:4 according to CPUZ. On my Core 2 Duo machine, getting it to 1:1 was easy, I had a 400mhz FSB (after a smidge of overclocking), and 400mhz RAM (800mhz effective DDR2 frequency). Now I feel lost. The FSB is reported to be 200mhz by the motherboard (apparently with a 2000mhz effective north bridge frequency, again, according to CPUZ), and the RAM is 800mhz on CPUZ, presumably times two (DDR) for 1600mhz effective frequency, giving the 1:4 ratio. Now, obviously I can't set my RAM to 200mhz (400 effective) just to get a 1:1 FSB/RAM ratio, so is this set up the way it should be? Even with 1:4, would it not still effectively achieve the same thing, as the faster component would still be ready when the slower component was (it would just run through 4 clock cycles instead of 1)? It's not like it's 5:3 or something odd where the two wouldn't sync up at all, so it seems like it would effectively achieve the same thing, but again, I feel lost on this new architecture.


     

    The RAM in an AM3 system is traced directly to the integrated memory controller in the CPU so relies on CPU speed for its multiplier instead of FSB. The Core design used NB to connect the RAM so used FSB speeds. I read someplace that syncing up ratios doesn't matter with the way the Phenom II is designed but you should probably read up on it.

    http://www.overclock.net/amd-general/307316-offical-overclocking-guide-amd-socket-am2.html around post 7 and

    http://www.overclockers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=555058 around post #5.

     

    Thank you, that's going to take a bit to absorb, but it's clear that I'm going to have to look at this whole affair much differently. It really is different when dealing with an integrated memory controller I guess.

  • CleffyCleffy Member RarePosts: 6,414

    lol you are overclocking the classic way.  AMD uses Hypertransport as well so adjusting the FSB is unnecessary.  For a Black Edition CPU it is incredibly easy to overclock.  Adjust your multiplier up a step until it cannot handle the clock, then add some volts, and repeat until its too hot or using more volts then your comfortable with.  If you do end up adjusting the FSB so you can work in smaller or larger increments, then try to keep it divisible by 1600 so you can use your full memory.  I still don't suggest changing your FSB.

    I wouldn't suggest overclocking at all.  You probably won't get the benefits but drain far more power.  With such a high clocked processor with only a 600 mhz headroom for overclocking on air, its not much of a gain.

  • CatamountCatamount Member Posts: 773
    Originally posted by Cleffy


    lol you are overclocking the classic way.  AMD uses Hypertransport as well so adjusting the FSB is unnecessary.  For a Black Edition CPU it is incredibly easy to overclock.  Adjust your multiplier up a step until it cannot handle the clock, then add some volts, and repeat until its too hot or using more volts then your comfortable with.  If you do end up adjusting the FSB so you can work in smaller or larger increments, then try to keep it divisible by 1600 so you can use your full memory.  I still don't suggest changing your FSB.
    I wouldn't suggest overclocking at all.  You probably won't get the benefits but drain far more power.  With such a high clocked processor with only a 600 mhz headroom for overclocking on air, its not much of a gain.

     

    You are actually right that there is generally little to no tangible benefit from CPU overclocking, especially at the high end. CPUs are never the bottlenecks in gaming machines. It also does consume more power (but hey, I drive a small car and donate to the NWF every month, so don't be hating my power-guzzling computer :D ).

    I really do it more just to do it, as I enjoy it as a hobby. It's the same reason I spend so much to upgrade in the first place, buying a pair of Radeon HD 5770s and a Phenom II X4 to replace a perfectly capable Core 2 Duo/Radeon HD 4870 based system; it's what I enjoy doing.

    If I didn't do it for kicks though, I'd generally agree with your assessment. Sometimes overclocking real entry-level CPUs can yield some interesting results, but that's a different subject altogether. I will say much though: that stock heatsink is not adequate. If a CPU can't keep cool at the stock clock speed in an Antec 900 in a very cool room with AS5 on the heatsink, then there's definitely something wrong. At least an Arctic Cooler Freezer 7 Pro is only $30 though, that's why I love them :)

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