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I resubscribed to WAR - Why? There is no alternative
Canis_Aureus
Member Posts: 16
I like PvP. I bought the WAR CE at release and played two months before I quit. I went back to lotro, tried wow again, played some darkfall and the beta of another PvP centric game. Bah they all sucked. LOTRO is an amazing PvE game and I do enjoy it. But for pvp it just isn't my kind of fun. WoW is still a good game, but I don't like the setup requiring much effort in a guild to get anywhere.
I resibscribed to WAR, deleted all my old characters and started new ones. Very few servers left, but the activity on the servers is decent. I have enjoyed the game much more than the others I tried in the meantime, because WAR does have PvP and RvR. On my server order is supposed to be outnumbered and yet we have managed to gain access to the enemy city a couple of times this week. Mythic may not be doing enough to try to force balance between the sides and a 3-way war could have solved some of the balance issues. But still with the state of the game I have enjoyed it a lot.
1. You don't have to get drops from keep lords to finish your armor set. I really hated that they initially made it like that because it reminded me of the wow setup that I hate so much. Now you can buy sets and get them from RvR influence. It works well and it's a good system.
2. Classes have been balanced a lot better even though the aoe nuking is still too dominating... but they can fix that balance.
3. The new player experience is much better with the tutorial and it was a good idea to focus it on one place, giving players the option to go to their racial starting area.
Lots of other improvements, but resubscribing just made me realize that one thing. There is no alternative if you like PvP and RvR. DAoC may still be active, but even though I was a bit fan I just can't stand playing that old game now. WAR may not be perfect, but LOTRO has issues, WoW has a lot of issued and especially wow has been like a roller coaster with no development direction from my experience the years I have played it. PvP in wow is just not fun and the effort to have a viable character is annoying the hell out of me.
There are things I wish they would change and add in WAR, but personally I just don't see any other game that offers me what WAR does in fact offer - RvR and a PvP centric game (that isn't asian or so indie that you feel like the developers have smoked crack).
Comments
I respect your opinion, but if you like RvR and PvP so much as you say, then Darkfall is a much superior game than WAR.
In Darkfall you have all kind of PvP: single PK, group PK, Guild vs Guild, Alliance vs Alliance (RvR), and it is not instanced.
All PVP you do has consequences not only for the players but it heavily influences the entire geo-political setup of game.
When you say there is no other choice, it just make me think that maybe you do not like PvP so much as you try to let us believe.
I played WAR and I was seriously disappointed by the vanilla approach of Mythic regarding PVP, DAOC is much better game in that regard.
I really don't get what you like about WAR PvP.....................
Well, of course Daoc offers it, but well, it seems you chose to dismiss it as old, well that's a shame for you I guess. Pretty much most people who played both feel Daoc is superior where PvP/RvR was concerned. That's also why a lot of them can't play WAR, because it's not a better alternative. It's a lesser alternative, even if it is newer.
But yes. If you are one of those people who can't play something better just because it's older, then WAR is the better alternative. But then it's merit isn't it's PvP/RvR. It's that it's Newer.
the only reason why i hated WAR was because i have spent the past 5 years reading Felix and Gotrex (awesome books) and developing an image of the warhammer world in my mind (dark, gritty, brutal) and Mythic serve to me some lame brightly coloured almost cartoony world that has almost 0 consequences and fear and almost nothing felt real or meaningful.
That to me was why WAR failed.
MMO wish list:
-Changeable worlds
-Solid non level based game
-Sharks with lasers attached to their heads
I have to agree with everything you said. I love WAR and no other game offers a PvP experience anything like it - very team based, very easy to hop on for a 15 minute scenario and pound some heads if that's all you have time for, and a system that doesn't encourage griefing and ganking newbie players just for the fun of it, ala EVE and Darkfall - both games I personally hate.
There's nothing out there like WAR right now; I stopped playing it to give Aion a try and I went screaming back to it; wishing I never left.
Only MMO's I play right now are WAR and Fallen Earth. Both cool games, both totally different experiences.
Pheace, no disrepect man, but WAR must have slighted you something feirce. You seem to comment on everry WAR post exclaiming its worthlessness. Believe me i'm in the same boat, I had high hopes for WAR--as did you if I recall, i remember you hyping it quite a bit-- but isn't it time to let bygones be bygones and just move on? ;-)
This is entirely your opinion presented as fact. I played DAOC and enjoyed it; but I enjoy WAR quite a lot more. For me to say that WAR is a much better game, though, and that DAOC just isn't as good would be an *opinion* of mine, not a fact, since it seems that both games still have thousands of subscribers.
Now, I'm guessing nobody is holding a gun to these customers heads and demanding that they subscribe to either game, so I would assume at this point that the reason *both* games exist and still have players is that *some* people prefer DAOC and others prefer WAR.
See how easy it is to not fall into hyperbole?
Justin isn't your sig a lil pretentious? ;-) Go listen to some Barenaked Ladies
Pheace, no disrepect man, but WAR must have slighted you something feirce. You seem to comment on everry WAR post exclaiming its worthlessness. Believe me i'm in the same boat, I had high hopes for WAR--as did you if I recall, i remember you hyping it quite a bit-- but isn't it time to let bygones be bygones and just move on? ;-)
I think he is agreeing with you..............actually
Pheace, no disrepect man, but WAR must have slighted you something feirce. You seem to comment on everry WAR post exclaiming its worthlessness. Believe me i'm in the same boat, I had high hopes for WAR--as did you if I recall, i remember you hyping it quite a bit-- but isn't it time to let bygones be bygones and just move on? ;-)
I doubt you could find even 5 posts where I proclaim WAR as worthless. Heck, I didn't even do so in this post.
This again? Like I said last time. Clearly you're confusing me with someone. I never 'hyped' this game. I've been skeptical of games ever since my last hype expectations were dashed by Shadowbane, and I've been skeptical of WAR every step of the way, even though it was the last game I was seriously looking into playing.
Originally posted by Justarius1
Originally posted by Pheace
Well, of course Daoc offers it, but well, it seems you chose to dismiss it as old, well that's a shame for you I guess. Pretty much most people who played both feel Daoc is superior where PvP/RvR was concerned. That's also why a lot of them can't play WAR, because it's not a better alternative. It's a lesser alternative, even if it is newer.
But yes. If you are one of those people who can't play something better just because it's older, then WAR is the better alternative. But then it's merit isn't it's PvP/RvR. It's that it's Newer.
This is entirely your opinion presented as fact. I played DAOC and enjoyed it; but I enjoy WAR quite a lot more. For me to say that WAR is a much better game, though, and that DAOC just isn't as good would be an *opinion* of mine, not a fact, since it seems that both games still have thousands of subscribers.
Now, I'm guessing nobody is holding a gun to these customers heads and demanding that they subscribe to either game, so I would assume at this point that the reason *both* games exist and still have players is that *some* people prefer DAOC and others prefer WAR.
See how easy it is to not fall into hyperbole?
I never presented what I said as my opinion, nor was it. It was the opinion of all the ex-daoc players that I've been reading since before the game was even released and over a year after release now. It's quite clear. Most people who played both think Daoc was better.
Also, that doesn't mean they are *playing* Daoc, even if they think it was better, but that's again due to other reasons (which is what I said above) beyond whether one game is the best alternative or not (grown tired, can't stand graphics etc etc)
I played DAoC right up until WoW release when I finally decided I wanted to try something new. I was a big fan of DAoC and while I agree that it had some features that WAR could benefit from I still don't think it's a better game and the age certainly does influence my choice of game. In DAoC I disliked how you had to get top level to begin being useful in RvR. I know they changed a lot later, but WAR was designed to allow RvR from level.
I tried Darkfall. I really wanted to like it. Bit balance issues, the fact that everyone is a mage, making it look like star wars, the slow and boring grind (because it isn't tiered like WAR) and other annoyances made me quit after the first month. I also don't like the first person perspective too much. The real time combat is over hyped and feel much more simplistic than WoW or WAR. The world of Darkfall is great, huge and well made though. On top of that there are serious issues with cheating in the game that I just can't cope with.
I have also played AoC recently and I actually think that game represents an actionish type of combat better than both Darkfall and Mortal Online. Unfortunately the class balance is way off and the PvP absolutely pointless. But I will be watching AoC, because despite its 100-player instanced setup I do see some potential if they find a way to create some proper Guild PvP or RvR in some form.
WoW may also offer something nice with cataclysm and I will certainly check it out.
But that's all ifs and whens... right now it's WARhammer for me. It offers RvR right now and I have lots of fun playing it. The way PQs, RvR, open grouping and raids are set up just invites everyone into the game... new player, veteran or returning player like myself. I just feel I can sit right down and begin playing. Not like wow where I'd have to figure out how to get some proper equipment for PvP... it's just a mish mash and plotting the route to 80 in WoW, so you end up with proper gear for PvP just seems a bit complicated (at least so much that I concluded that I didn't care to spend the time I think it would require).
I'm a husband, a father and have a job. WAR takes me in and welcomes me just as if it understands my situation. THAT is another reason why I like WAR so much. In WoW I feel like I get steam rolled with impressions and I feel completely lost. I do like to be competitive and participate in PvP. In WoW I don't feel like I can or at least I don't know where to begin. In WAR everything seems clear to me, because of they way they have set up the progression system. Especially after they changed it so armor pieces didn't have to be aquired as drops from keep lords.
Pheace, no disrepect man, but WAR must have slighted you something feirce. You seem to comment on everry WAR post exclaiming its worthlessness. Believe me i'm in the same boat, I had high hopes for WAR--as did you if I recall, i remember you hyping it quite a bit-- but isn't it time to let bygones be bygones and just move on? ;-)
I doubt you could find even 5 posts where I proclaim WAR as worthless. Heck, I didn't even do so in this post.
This again? Like I said last time. Clearly you're confusing me with someone. I never 'hyped' this game. I've been skeptical of games ever since my last hype expectations were dashed by Shadowbane, and I've been skeptical of WAR every step of the way, even though it was the last game I was seriously looking into playing.
Originally posted by Justarius1
Originally posted by Pheace
Well, of course Daoc offers it, but well, it seems you chose to dismiss it as old, well that's a shame for you I guess. Pretty much most people who played both feel Daoc is superior where PvP/RvR was concerned. That's also why a lot of them can't play WAR, because it's not a better alternative. It's a lesser alternative, even if it is newer.
But yes. If you are one of those people who can't play something better just because it's older, then WAR is the better alternative. But then it's merit isn't it's PvP/RvR. It's that it's Newer.
This is entirely your opinion presented as fact. I played DAOC and enjoyed it; but I enjoy WAR quite a lot more. For me to say that WAR is a much better game, though, and that DAOC just isn't as good would be an *opinion* of mine, not a fact, since it seems that both games still have thousands of subscribers.
Now, I'm guessing nobody is holding a gun to these customers heads and demanding that they subscribe to either game, so I would assume at this point that the reason *both* games exist and still have players is that *some* people prefer DAOC and others prefer WAR.
See how easy it is to not fall into hyperbole?
I never presented what I said as my opinion, nor was it. It was the opinion of all the ex-daoc players that I've been reading since before the game was even released and over a year after release now. It's quite clear. Most people who played both think Daoc was better.
Also, that doesn't mean they are *playing* Daoc, even if they think it was better, but that's again due to other reasons (which is what I said above) beyond whether one game is the best alternative or not (grown tired, can't stand graphics etc etc)
Well, hello, pleased to meet you. You now know somebody who played DAOC for over two years and now plays WAR, and thinks WAR is better. That's my opinion. Now you've read it on these boards. Will wonders never cease.
Pheace, no disrepect man, but WAR must have slighted you something feirce. You seem to comment on everry WAR post exclaiming its worthlessness. Believe me i'm in the same boat, I had high hopes for WAR--as did you if I recall, i remember you hyping it quite a bit-- but isn't it time to let bygones be bygones and just move on? ;-)
I doubt you could find even 5 posts where I proclaim WAR as worthless. Heck, I didn't even do so in this post.
This again? Like I said last time. Clearly you're confusing me with someone. I never 'hyped' this game. I've been skeptical of games ever since my last hype expectations were dashed by Shadowbane, and I've been skeptical of WAR every step of the way, even though it was the last game I was seriously looking into playing.
Originally posted by Justarius1
Originally posted by Pheace
Well, of course Daoc offers it, but well, it seems you chose to dismiss it as old, well that's a shame for you I guess. Pretty much most people who played both feel Daoc is superior where PvP/RvR was concerned. That's also why a lot of them can't play WAR, because it's not a better alternative. It's a lesser alternative, even if it is newer.
But yes. If you are one of those people who can't play something better just because it's older, then WAR is the better alternative. But then it's merit isn't it's PvP/RvR. It's that it's Newer.
This is entirely your opinion presented as fact. I played DAOC and enjoyed it; but I enjoy WAR quite a lot more. For me to say that WAR is a much better game, though, and that DAOC just isn't as good would be an *opinion* of mine, not a fact, since it seems that both games still have thousands of subscribers.
Now, I'm guessing nobody is holding a gun to these customers heads and demanding that they subscribe to either game, so I would assume at this point that the reason *both* games exist and still have players is that *some* people prefer DAOC and others prefer WAR.
See how easy it is to not fall into hyperbole?
I never presented what I said as my opinion, nor was it. It was the opinion of all the ex-daoc players that I've been reading since before the game was even released and over a year after release now. It's quite clear. Most people who played both think Daoc was better.
Also, that doesn't mean they are *playing* Daoc, even if they think it was better, but that's again due to other reasons (which is what I said above) beyond whether one game is the best alternative or not (grown tired, can't stand graphics etc etc)
Well, hello, pleased to meet you. You now know somebody who played DAOC for over two years and now plays WAR, and thinks WAR is better. That's my opinion. Now you've read it on these boards. Will wonders never cease.
Hi there! What part of 'most people' made you feel excluded to begin with?
A good and fair reason and one I'll easily hand to WAR given the way the game was designed, (although as you said it seems it's much easier in Daoc these days as well, assuming one knows his way around though no doubt).
However, this is a matter of accessibility, and not really one of quality of RvR/PvP
Quote:
"I'm a husband, a father and have a job. WAR takes me in and welcomes me just as if it understands my situation. THAT is another reason why I like WAR so much. In WoW I feel like I get steam rolled with impressions and I feel completely lost. I do like to be competitive and participate in PvP. In WoW I don't feel like I can or at least I don't know where to begin. In WAR everything seems clear to me, because of they way they have set up the progression system. Especially after they changed it so armor pieces didn't have to be aquired as drops from keep lords."
Bingo - this exactly. WAR takes you in and makes you feel welcome even if you can't play religiously for three or four hours a day. I stopped playing for about three months, went back, and found that I was having a blast and jumping right into T4 scenarios from the get-go. I can log on for 30 minutes and have fun, complete a scenario, feel like I accomplished something.
Most of the people in my guild there are also in the 30+ range with spouses, jobs, lives outside of MMO's - etc. Maybe part of the appeal of WAR to gamers like us is the casual nature, clear progression, and ease of getting right into the action.
I also played, and enjoyed, Dark Age of Camelot. One of my favorite characters was a Sylvan valewalker that I absolutely loved. However, I don't think it was a "better game" - I liked the third faction, but other than that, I find WAR to be the "better game" (for me, at least) in nearly every aspect.
Of course somebody will come along and tell me how wrong I am for enjoying a game that they don't.
I love this site.
A good and fair reason and one I'll easily hand to WAR given the way the game was designed, (although as you said it seems it's much easier in Daoc these days as well, assuming one knows his way around though no doubt).
However, this is a matter of accessibility, and not really one of quality of RvR/PvP
I can see how you can interpret my opinion to that end. But it wasn't what I meant, like it was the only quality of WAR. I do find WAR to be the better game overall. WoW has spoiled people, because those who remember it at launch will know the extent of it's issues. But it's an incredibly smooth game now and that very core thing... the smoothness of the gameplay, can be tough to compete with, because no matter what features and cool world setup you have, those basic things are 90% of the first impression. For one I wish WAR had smooter gameplay like WoW, because no other MMO has touched the smoothness of WoW - the incredible responsiveness.
But I'll stick with WAR because if it is polished and tweaked, then it can become awesome. There is nothing that I really miss in WAR, but the core smoothness has to improve (lag, responsiveness etc.). WoW has this very smooth gameplay already, but it's missing the features that I want (RvR and focused PvP from day 1). I can see how WAR can be tweaked and improved to become more responsive, just like wow did. I don't see how WoW (or other MMOs), can suddenly turn around and deliver RvR and WAR-like pvp however. So for that reason I want to stick with WAR because it has what I want... it just needs polish and more responsive gameplay.
I wonder why every MMO is so stuck on the $15 a month subscription fee, when it's generally accepted that not all games provide the same value for your money. If games like WAR, AOC, CO and other "tier 2" MMOs were to reduce their subscription fees to say $5-10 a month, they might end up bringing in more casual type players like me, who like the game but can't justify paying $15 monthly for it.
Glad to hear you are back in it and enjoying it. I never really hated the game, but it didn't quite live up to my expectations and I decided that I'd rather be spending my gaming time on other titles. And I don't like having subs to too many games at once, the money adds up quickly and I try to be careful about my spending.
I can see how you can interpret my opinion to that end. But it wasn't what I meant, like it was the only quality of WAR. I do find WAR to be the better game overall. WoW has spoiled people, because those who remember it at launch will know the extent of it's issues. But it's an incredibly smooth game now and that very core thing... the smoothness of the gameplay, can be tough to compete with, because no matter what features and cool world setup you have, those basic things are 90% of the first impression. For one I wish WAR had smooter gameplay like WoW, because no other MMO has touched the smoothness of WoW - the incredible responsiveness.
But I'll stick with WAR because if it is polished and tweaked, then it can become awesome. There is nothing that I really miss in WAR, but the core smoothness has to improve (lag, responsiveness etc.). WoW has this very smooth gameplay already, but it's missing the features that I want (RvR and focused PvP from day 1). I can see how WAR can be tweaked and improved to become more responsive, just like wow did. I don't see how WoW (or other MMOs), can suddenly turn around and deliver RvR and WAR-like pvp however. So for that reason I want to stick with WAR because it has what I want... it just needs polish and more responsive gameplay.
You make it sound like WoW made miracle leaps in terms of polish and responsiveness somewhere after release yet I don't necessarily agree they ever did.Granted, i've read the horror stories of WoW release, how a certain server group had problems well up to a year after release.
However, as a EU subscriber, I can tell you that the game itself, was extremely polished and responsive even before the EU release (3 months after the US release) and at release that stayed the same. Naturally there *were* problems at launch but nearly all of those can be attributed to the servers not being able to handle the load of people trying to log in, and people on the med/low servers din't share most of those problems (And I heard the same from people on the US servers).
Yes, the fully stocked servers had problems (loot lag, mail lag, AH lag). But the state of the software itself was extremely polished already even before the EU release.So unless you are saying they made miracle leaps in polish and responsiveness somewhere in those 2-3 months tops that was the state the game has always been in (err from release).
And regardless, you need to understand that the state the game was in for the EU will be the state more than 80% of WoW's population (and probably more) will have experienced WoW as from day 1, for them. These people aren't making stuff up. Most of them just never experienced the problems those US servers had.
I have no doubt that WAR will continue to be "polished and tweaked" as you say. They recently made a lot of changes and they're continuing to do so.
Lordy, people. Why do you have to *crush* games that *you* didn't like? It isn't enough to say that I didn't like title X anymore; no, people need to go on a pages-long diatribe and spew utter hate and hyperbole for titles they didn't like. If you inform them that this is an opinion you are told, no, this is GOD'S GIVEN FACT - EVERYONE SAYS SO... yikes.
Personally, I hate EVE. So I don't play it. I don't hang out in the EVE discussion forums blasting EVE to everyone who will listen like the game personally raped my wife and killed my dog. I logged on, played it, saw it wasn't for me, and now I avoid it.
I tend to spend more time talking about titles I like. Aion was also a disappointment for me. You won't see me trying to convince other people that the game is horrible, however. I play WAR an Fallen Earth, mostly, so I spend the majority of my time discussing those two titles and the other MMO's I have played, loved, and/or look forward to playing.
Fact is, lots of people are playing WAR and having fun with it now. If it's not your cup of tea, move on. If you REALLY want to help out, head on over to their suggestion forums and leave your awesome ideas there for the development team.
Or, I guess, spend time in forums trying to convince people to never, ever play a game because it is such an inferior product. Whatever gets you through the day I suppose.
What do you suppose is the purpose of these forums? Think of it as another form of PVP and you'll start to understand them better.
Of course people have to crush games they don't like, its part of the fun. Heck, in my case I'd love to see WAR crushed just complete the punishment Mythic deserves for doing such poor job (IMO) of making this game. Beside, it might free up the IP for a better game in the future.
The OP created this thread and one of two things were going to happen.
1) People were going to agree with him and say why they liked it.
2) People were going to disagree with him and say why they don't like it.
There really is no other reasoning behind it all.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
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Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
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"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I played WoW on EU servers from release. There was lag yes, but I am talking about ability timing, animation timing and CDs and how they worked together. They have tweaked that. But I agree that even at launch WoW was leagues ahead of all previous MMOs in terms of responsiveness.
But WoW won't get the features that WAR has. WAR on the other hand can get the responsiveness WoW has. Gameplaywise I just see WAR as the only fun and good PvP game at the moment with a focus on RvR being particularly nice.
I will try WoW again though. I'm curious as to how much it has changed. But as it's core it will still be a PvE game with tacked on PvP like most MMOs released.
I want a fantasy setting, I want 3rd person traditional skill use combat, I want PvP and preferrable outright faction warfare. To get all those I see no other game.
Deceptive use of words. Won't and can't are two different things. WoW *can* get what WAR has, just as WAR *can* get what WoW has (you'd hope at least).
Personally I think neither of them will though. If the Daoc engine had it in itself for the game to run as smoothly as WoW you'd have thought they'd done it by now a year past since people have been complaining about it.
Even in Daoc I never felt that responsiveness so I simply don't think the engine has it in it though, but that's my opinion.
Also, don't be mistaken. I am in no way saying you can't or shouldn't enjoy your time in WAR, I'm sure it's fun for plenty of people as long as they can look beyond it's faults (although even for those after a while it seems to wear on them). What I was taking issue with was that WAR was the only option out there overall. Only option for you is something else of course, but you didn't seem to present it that way
Ya I bought CE and quit after 2 months also. Soon as I get my new mother board I'm resubing. I miss PVP so badly. I have been playing MWF 2 all day every day as if it were a MMO and it gets old. I really miss FFA PVP in vanguard but that game is dead. I tryed wow till level 30 and HATED PVP. Was not fun at all. DF graphics were just to bad, Aion has no end game and is zerg only.
So I have to options, try EQ2, but I hate SOE and the worst dev in the boz just went there, SIlius. Or try Warhammer again. had alota fun but PVP got old to me. I remeber saying PVP seemed to hav almost no meaning because you do it so much, and it felt as if I were always playing Halo deathmatch.
My biggest graip with Warhammer is there very little 1v1 PVP. 1v1 is the best.
Darkfall may be an option for you. I have no clue about that game though, but I know it's focused on PvP. Just mentioning it because it seems you didn't try it.
What do you suppose is the purpose of these forums? Think of it as another form of PVP and you'll start to understand them better.
Of course people have to crush games they don't like, its part of the fun. Heck, in my case I'd love to see WAR crushed just complete the punishment Mythic deserves for doing such poor job (IMO) of making this game. Beside, it might free up the IP for a better game in the future.
The OP created this thread and one of two things were going to happen.
1) People were going to agree with him and say why they liked it.
2) People were going to disagree with him and say why they don't like it.
There really is no other reasoning behind it all.
Forum discussion is another form of PvP to you?
Thanks for filling me in on that, after over a decade of using discussion forums, I never realized.
Sarcasm aside, now at least knowing how you feel you have spared me the desire or need to speak to you further. Knowing that any conversation I have with you will be, in your mind, a form of verbal sparring just makes me... well, want to ignore you from now on.
Thanks for being so open about what you want out of the site, however. I, personally, think it's possible to share balanced information on a game I like or dislike without launching into hyperbole. I hate EVE but I don't want to "crush" it so those 300,000 other players move on to a game I prefer.
I think this is part of the problem with political discourse today. Everything is boiled down to a partisan conservative vs. liberal, democrat vs. republican all or nothing PvP war. Hell, we have the Alliance and the Horde here in the US scoring verbal "points" every day on Fox News and MSNBC. I actually recall a time when politics weren't all like this and civil discourse and exchange of information - not scoring points for your home team - was part of the process.