Let me know when they learn their lesson about whatever tool they use that causes my comp to Black Screen of Death on every Turbine game, and I'll gladly sign onto DDO. This bug came in with the Mines of Moria expansion in LOTRO and drove me out of the game, and it's also in DDO - I can't walk up the path from the beach without zonking my computer right to a reboot
It is always great to see a game succeed, and DDO is doing that very easily at this point it seems.
But I still can't ever play a game model such as this. Anytime a game revolves around the principle that I spend hours earning something and then someone else walks up and opens his wallet and has all that and more instantly, I don't want to play it. I don't want to play in a world where people can buy their way to the top and buy their way to good gear etc etc. I leave sub mmos that I see too many people buying gold for, or too many bots grinding gold to sell. I don't want any part in those types of situations.
You really don't know how ddo works...
Agreed, he doesn't know how DDO works
Look...you CAN have a million buck And buy EVERYTHING the store has. Guess what? You have all the mods that are out so far, you have all the classes and races and 32pt. builds, and 30 character slots with +1 swords and armour for them and a account bank...
You are still LEVEL 1. And if you ONLY use the store to equip your guys, you will suck. Hands down. Not because DDO is gear heavy, oh no, but because DDO's best gear comes out of QUESTS.
You CANNOT BUY YOUR WAY THROUGH THE GAME.
No way, no how. You can get mana pots, which are very expensive and created depenacy (which Turbine Loves), +1 loot and XP pots. None of these are useful unless you play thegame. You cannot buy your way through the game.
Oh, the evil plat (gold) farmer? I haven't seen alot of them for over a year now. Saw 6 different ones last weekend. I guess 40% more subs than what Turbine had before was enough to bring them back in.
If you haven't played it before, play it. WARNING: It is FAR differnent than anything out there! If you haven't played in years, play it again, it has CHANGED (not always for the better, but mostly improved) I have tried a host of MMOs and none have held my attention as DDO has. It's character creation is the best (not what your character looks like, but what he IS) and the fact you have FULL CONTROL, if you wish, of his leveling. Muticlassing. FPS style combat that gives you that feel of excitment playing thegame.
Label me a Fangurl, fine. But don't judge a game until you have played it.
As for Atari...I am on the Star Trek Online beta, and it feels VERY RUSHED. I guess Atari needs some cash cuz it's gunna loose it's licencing agreement. Atari pushed DDO to be released too soon 4 years ago, and is doing the same to STO.
Yes, I am a gamer girl. Dungeons and Dragons Online: April 2006 THELANIS: Guild: Merc's Only. Trissa, Kleo, Sousake, Mulder, Roselyn, Caboose, Kaname, Scully, Courwin, Oncoming, Lanarissa, Doomlord, Tnannet, Healbotatron, keitherland, Keatheran, Allura, Riversong, Johnsmith, Jennysmith I also play Star Trek Online and LotRO, on occasion.
This game made several mistakes in my opinion A) No world in a P2P game Eberron (there aren't many people out there that give 2 flying craps about this D&D setting and iv'e never once heard anyone say it was their favorite) C) No factions or alignment beyond Good and Neutral ( Even then your alignment doesn't play a huge role in the game, only determines if you can get hit with certain buffs or wield certain weapons.) If this game wouldve been based in "The Forgotten Realms" or "Dragonlance" settings I personally feel they wouldve had a much higher pop. Not to mention if it had a world as well as been based in FR or DL. Hell I would probably still be playing to this day. *crosses fingers for the Atari Forgotten Realms rumors to be true*
Blame Atari...It had rights to distribute DnD computer games and refused to give up Forgotten Realms. Only thing left was Eberron. The Lawyers that play DDO theorize that was so they could do their own MMO, after scoping Turbine's and causing it to nearly fail of course.
Just as well, I am currently nickpicking the heck out of STO as HUGE Trekkie (note TrekkIE not TrekkER) and not enjoying it at all. I feel I would for Faerun as well.
Yes, I am a gamer girl. Dungeons and Dragons Online: April 2006 THELANIS: Guild: Merc's Only. Trissa, Kleo, Sousake, Mulder, Roselyn, Caboose, Kaname, Scully, Courwin, Oncoming, Lanarissa, Doomlord, Tnannet, Healbotatron, keitherland, Keatheran, Allura, Riversong, Johnsmith, Jennysmith I also play Star Trek Online and LotRO, on occasion.
...I really don't know all the details about the differences between turbine and atari, but this is something that is taking place 7-8 years after the whole licensing took place. Honestly, can anyone blame atari for wanting to get out of their contract after turbine screwed the pooch with DDO?
No. You really don't know the details.
Atari had the opportunity to get out of the DDO contract with Turbine when Turbine approached them and negotiated the DDO:Eberron amendment (Amendment No. 5).
At that point Atari could have simply said "No." and been upfront about it.
Turbine clearly wanted a change and Atari could have 'offered them an out' right there.
Instead, they said "Yes." and clandestinely worked on their own game and against Turbine (if what Turbine says is true).
This was in May 2009 - less than a year ago.
I was trying to say that I bet Atari and Turbine were both happy with their deal from 7-8 years ago, until Turbine delivered DDO a few years ago and it tanked. I understand why atari may not want to do more business with turbine (either with DDO or another D&D mmo) and I doubt they can easily walk away from their contract. Even if they said no to the changes proposed it doesn't end the contract does it?
Somehow I suspect that if DDO was a major success that Atari would be working with Turbine on the second D&D mmo that is in the works. As things currently stand I understand why they are choosing to go another route.
It tanked because
A) Atari rushed it before it was ready
b) because there was NO ADVERTISING for it.
Granted, this is Turbine's position, but being with DDO for 4 years, it's the truth. As for the rushed part, STO isn't ready to be released. Guess who's name is attached to the game?
Yes, I am a gamer girl. Dungeons and Dragons Online: April 2006 THELANIS: Guild: Merc's Only. Trissa, Kleo, Sousake, Mulder, Roselyn, Caboose, Kaname, Scully, Courwin, Oncoming, Lanarissa, Doomlord, Tnannet, Healbotatron, keitherland, Keatheran, Allura, Riversong, Johnsmith, Jennysmith I also play Star Trek Online and LotRO, on occasion.
Originally posted by Daffid011 I was trying to say that I bet Atari and Turbine were both happy with their deal from 7-8 years ago, until Turbine delivered DDO a few years ago and it tanked. I understand why atari may not want to do more business with turbine (either with DDO or another D&D mmo) and I doubt they can easily walk away from their contract. Even if they said no to the changes proposed it doesn't end the contract does it? Somehow I suspect that if DDO was a major success that Atari would be working with Turbine on the second D&D mmo that is in the works. As things currently stand I understand why they are choosing to go another route.
Again, as the other poster said, you don't know the details.
Atari is the one that made Turbine push the game out 6 months early, before it was done, thus causing a lot of the starting issues that made early players leave in the first place. Added to that is the fact that, by contract, Atari was supposed to do ALL the publishing, marketing, and distribution of the game at release, but about a month before release they confessed to turbine that they couldn't afford/handle their end of the contract, so they had to re-negotiate a new contract for Atari to only do Europe and Turbine had to do NA's distribution. Considering Turbine had already invested most of their funds into the game itself and the short time till release, they didn't have much left for a good ad campaign, so the game didn't start out very well.
Even further, Atari STILL wouldn't live up to their end and had a pretty poor ad campaign/distribution in Europe. In fact, you couldn't even find DDO on Atari's website until a couple months ago after Turbine and Hasbro sued them.
It is well known that Atari appeared to be sabotaging DDO from the beginning, possibly in an attempt to use Turbine's DDO to test the D&D MMO player interest, while hoping it would fail so they could make their own.
/nods
And from the gamer perceptive, it felt like Turbine was giving us the cold shoulder, when in fact, atari was and they were quietly gathering evidence of this fact.
as for Turbine keeping DDO. THe licence agreement was to 2014 I believe. Hasbro may honor this if Turbine can prove they can make a profit. Hence the EU launch. I think it was clever on Turbine's part and sets the stage to show that they care about DDO enough that Hasbro may just honor the agreement. But that is speculation.
Nice lawyerese translation. I read all the transcripts and could not understand it.
Yes, I am a gamer girl. Dungeons and Dragons Online: April 2006 THELANIS: Guild: Merc's Only. Trissa, Kleo, Sousake, Mulder, Roselyn, Caboose, Kaname, Scully, Courwin, Oncoming, Lanarissa, Doomlord, Tnannet, Healbotatron, keitherland, Keatheran, Allura, Riversong, Johnsmith, Jennysmith I also play Star Trek Online and LotRO, on occasion.
Originally posted by Daffid011 I was trying to say that I bet Atari and Turbine were both happy with their deal from 7-8 years ago, until Turbine delivered DDO a few years ago and it tanked. I understand why atari may not want to do more business with turbine (either with DDO or another D&D mmo) and I doubt they can easily walk away from their contract. Even if they said no to the changes proposed it doesn't end the contract does it? Somehow I suspect that if DDO was a major success that Atari would be working with Turbine on the second D&D mmo that is in the works. As things currently stand I understand why they are choosing to go another route.
Again, as the other poster said, you don't know the details.
Atari is the one that made Turbine push the game out 6 months early, before it was done, thus causing a lot of the starting issues that made early players leave in the first place. Added to that is the fact that, by contract, Atari was supposed to do ALL the publishing, marketing, and distribution of the game at release, but about a month before release they confessed to turbine that they couldn't afford/handle their end of the contract, so they had to re-negotiate a new contract for Atari to only do Europe and Turbine had to do NA's distribution. Considering Turbine had already invested most of their funds into the game itself and the short time till release, they didn't have much left for a good ad campaign, so the game didn't start out very well.
Even further, Atari STILL wouldn't live up to their end and had a pretty poor ad campaign/distribution in Europe. In fact, you couldn't even find DDO on Atari's website until a couple months ago after Turbine and Hasbro sued them.
It is well known that Atari appeared to be sabotaging DDO from the beginning, possibly in an attempt to use Turbine's DDO to test the D&D MMO player interest, while hoping it would fail so they could make their own.
Where does it say that Atari forced Turbine to release ddo 6 months early? I would like to read something to that affect.
As for the statements of the lawsuit, they really don't change the game that Turbine made. 6 more months would not have changed the problems of DDO, because 6 months post release it wasn't doing any better. Turbine made a game that did poorly in the subscription market. It wasn't advertising, marketing or distribution. It just wasn't a very good game and even the people who did play it, the vast majority left.
Atari may have failed at everything it did, but that didn't force turbine to make a bad game. The courts will determine what can be proven and what cannot, but my point was that I can fully understand why Atari would not want to do further business with Turbine, because Turbine delivered a game that flopped.
Atari "appeared" to be sabotaging ddo. Honestly DDO didn't need to be sabotaged. That much should be obvious. For all we know Atari may just not have wanted to further support a game that crashed down to 5 servers. It isn't like 5 servers is going to make large profits for two companies with a third license holder on top of that.
..... Atari had the opportunity to get out of the DDO contract with Turbine when Turbine approached them and negotiated the DDO:Eberron amendment (Amendment No. 5). At that point Atari could have simply said "No." and been upfront about it.
...
This was in May 2009 - less than a year ago.
... Even if they said no to the changes proposed it doesn't end the contract does it?
...
Actually, it might have.
This is from the documents filed by Turbine:
40. Turbine would never have entered into Amendment Number Five or the Letter Agreement, nor would it have expended time, money and effort (or staked its reputation) on the launch of DDO: Unlimited had it had any warning that Atari’s representations concerning its enthusiastic support for DDO: Unlimited were false.
In other words - DDO:Unlimited (DDO F2P) would not have happened if Atari had told Turbine they would not support it.
Atari had the option to say "No."
Whether Turbine would have simply hung on to DDO:Stormreach (P2P) until it eventually died it's own death or simply pulled the plug at that point is anyones guess? (Since they never had to make that choice).
If Atari chose to say no to changes that Turbine was asking to make (amendment #5), that does not give them grounds to invalidate the contract. It means the terms of the original contract are still in effect. Nothing changes until both parties agree to make changes. If Atari had the chance to get out of the contract easily, why would they then go through the trouble of trying to break the contract with Turbine as is claimed in the lawsuit?
... Atari had the option to say "No." Whether Turbine would have simply hung on to DDO:Stormreach (P2P) until it eventually died it's own death or simply pulled the plug at that point is anyones guess? (Since they never had to make that choice).
If Atari chose to say no to changes that Turbine was asking to make (amendment #5), that does not give them grounds to invalidate the contract. It means the terms of the original contract are still in effect. Nothing changes until both parties agree to make changes. If Atari had the chance to get out of the contract easily, why would they then go through the trouble of trying to break the contract with Turbine as is claimed in the lawsuit?
Honestly, who knows?
Reading through the submissions by both Turbine and Hasbro it looks like Atari just mismanaged the whole thing in an effort to be 'clever'. That sounds silly, but you do get that sometimes in business when 'middle manager' types think they can run contracts.
I re-read the documents and remembered that Atari already had the option to produce their own D&D game and compete with Turbine in the same market under Amendment #4 (in which Turbine gave up 'exclusivity') - so they didn't even need to break the contract with Turbine to do what they wanted.
Atari were under no pressure to agree to DDO:Unlimited / Eberron.
They didn't need to break the contract by force... they could simply have let DDO fail and Turbine pull out on their own.
Yeah, I don't think either of these companies are going to come out of this looking good. Neither company really did a good job with this title and just the rumors about atari are really scary.
Comments
AC2 was a fine game, with the best skill trees I have seen. I liked the feel of the non human races as well, shame it went down.
Let me know when they learn their lesson about whatever tool they use that causes my comp to Black Screen of Death on every Turbine game, and I'll gladly sign onto DDO. This bug came in with the Mines of Moria expansion in LOTRO and drove me out of the game, and it's also in DDO - I can't walk up the path from the beach without zonking my computer right to a reboot
Aside from that, hey, great job! lol.
You really don't know how ddo works...
Agreed, he doesn't know how DDO works
Look...you CAN have a million buck And buy EVERYTHING the store has. Guess what? You have all the mods that are out so far, you have all the classes and races and 32pt. builds, and 30 character slots with +1 swords and armour for them and a account bank...
You are still LEVEL 1. And if you ONLY use the store to equip your guys, you will suck. Hands down. Not because DDO is gear heavy, oh no, but because DDO's best gear comes out of QUESTS.
You CANNOT BUY YOUR WAY THROUGH THE GAME.
No way, no how. You can get mana pots, which are very expensive and created depenacy (which Turbine Loves), +1 loot and XP pots. None of these are useful unless you play thegame. You cannot buy your way through the game.
Oh, the evil plat (gold) farmer? I haven't seen alot of them for over a year now. Saw 6 different ones last weekend. I guess 40% more subs than what Turbine had before was enough to bring them back in.
If you haven't played it before, play it. WARNING: It is FAR differnent than anything out there! If you haven't played in years, play it again, it has CHANGED (not always for the better, but mostly improved) I have tried a host of MMOs and none have held my attention as DDO has. It's character creation is the best (not what your character looks like, but what he IS) and the fact you have FULL CONTROL, if you wish, of his leveling. Muticlassing. FPS style combat that gives you that feel of excitment playing thegame.
Label me a Fangurl, fine. But don't judge a game until you have played it.
As for Atari...I am on the Star Trek Online beta, and it feels VERY RUSHED. I guess Atari needs some cash cuz it's gunna loose it's licencing agreement. Atari pushed DDO to be released too soon 4 years ago, and is doing the same to STO.
Yes, I am a gamer girl.
Dungeons and Dragons Online: April 2006
THELANIS: Guild: Merc's Only. Trissa, Kleo, Sousake, Mulder, Roselyn, Caboose, Kaname, Scully, Courwin, Oncoming, Lanarissa, Doomlord, Tnannet, Healbotatron, keitherland, Keatheran, Allura, Riversong, Johnsmith, Jennysmith
I also play Star Trek Online and LotRO, on occasion.
Blame Atari...It had rights to distribute DnD computer games and refused to give up Forgotten Realms. Only thing left was Eberron. The Lawyers that play DDO theorize that was so they could do their own MMO, after scoping Turbine's and causing it to nearly fail of course.
Just as well, I am currently nickpicking the heck out of STO as HUGE Trekkie (note TrekkIE not TrekkER) and not enjoying it at all. I feel I would for Faerun as well.
Yes, I am a gamer girl.
Dungeons and Dragons Online: April 2006
THELANIS: Guild: Merc's Only. Trissa, Kleo, Sousake, Mulder, Roselyn, Caboose, Kaname, Scully, Courwin, Oncoming, Lanarissa, Doomlord, Tnannet, Healbotatron, keitherland, Keatheran, Allura, Riversong, Johnsmith, Jennysmith
I also play Star Trek Online and LotRO, on occasion.
No. You really don't know the details.
Atari had the opportunity to get out of the DDO contract with Turbine when Turbine approached them and negotiated the DDO:Eberron amendment (Amendment No. 5).
At that point Atari could have simply said "No." and been upfront about it.
Turbine clearly wanted a change and Atari could have 'offered them an out' right there.
Instead, they said "Yes." and clandestinely worked on their own game and against Turbine (if what Turbine says is true).
This was in May 2009 - less than a year ago.
I was trying to say that I bet Atari and Turbine were both happy with their deal from 7-8 years ago, until Turbine delivered DDO a few years ago and it tanked. I understand why atari may not want to do more business with turbine (either with DDO or another D&D mmo) and I doubt they can easily walk away from their contract. Even if they said no to the changes proposed it doesn't end the contract does it?
Somehow I suspect that if DDO was a major success that Atari would be working with Turbine on the second D&D mmo that is in the works. As things currently stand I understand why they are choosing to go another route.
It tanked because
A) Atari rushed it before it was ready
b) because there was NO ADVERTISING for it.
Granted, this is Turbine's position, but being with DDO for 4 years, it's the truth. As for the rushed part, STO isn't ready to be released. Guess who's name is attached to the game?
Yes, I am a gamer girl.
Dungeons and Dragons Online: April 2006
THELANIS: Guild: Merc's Only. Trissa, Kleo, Sousake, Mulder, Roselyn, Caboose, Kaname, Scully, Courwin, Oncoming, Lanarissa, Doomlord, Tnannet, Healbotatron, keitherland, Keatheran, Allura, Riversong, Johnsmith, Jennysmith
I also play Star Trek Online and LotRO, on occasion.
Again, as the other poster said, you don't know the details.
Atari is the one that made Turbine push the game out 6 months early, before it was done, thus causing a lot of the starting issues that made early players leave in the first place. Added to that is the fact that, by contract, Atari was supposed to do ALL the publishing, marketing, and distribution of the game at release, but about a month before release they confessed to turbine that they couldn't afford/handle their end of the contract, so they had to re-negotiate a new contract for Atari to only do Europe and Turbine had to do NA's distribution. Considering Turbine had already invested most of their funds into the game itself and the short time till release, they didn't have much left for a good ad campaign, so the game didn't start out very well.
Even further, Atari STILL wouldn't live up to their end and had a pretty poor ad campaign/distribution in Europe. In fact, you couldn't even find DDO on Atari's website until a couple months ago after Turbine and Hasbro sued them.
It is well known that Atari appeared to be sabotaging DDO from the beginning, possibly in an attempt to use Turbine's DDO to test the D&D MMO player interest, while hoping it would fail so they could make their own.
/nods
And from the gamer perceptive, it felt like Turbine was giving us the cold shoulder, when in fact, atari was and they were quietly gathering evidence of this fact.
as for Turbine keeping DDO. THe licence agreement was to 2014 I believe. Hasbro may honor this if Turbine can prove they can make a profit. Hence the EU launch. I think it was clever on Turbine's part and sets the stage to show that they care about DDO enough that Hasbro may just honor the agreement. But that is speculation.
Nice lawyerese translation. I read all the transcripts and could not understand it.
Yes, I am a gamer girl.
Dungeons and Dragons Online: April 2006
THELANIS: Guild: Merc's Only. Trissa, Kleo, Sousake, Mulder, Roselyn, Caboose, Kaname, Scully, Courwin, Oncoming, Lanarissa, Doomlord, Tnannet, Healbotatron, keitherland, Keatheran, Allura, Riversong, Johnsmith, Jennysmith
I also play Star Trek Online and LotRO, on occasion.
Again, as the other poster said, you don't know the details.
Atari is the one that made Turbine push the game out 6 months early, before it was done, thus causing a lot of the starting issues that made early players leave in the first place. Added to that is the fact that, by contract, Atari was supposed to do ALL the publishing, marketing, and distribution of the game at release, but about a month before release they confessed to turbine that they couldn't afford/handle their end of the contract, so they had to re-negotiate a new contract for Atari to only do Europe and Turbine had to do NA's distribution. Considering Turbine had already invested most of their funds into the game itself and the short time till release, they didn't have much left for a good ad campaign, so the game didn't start out very well.
Even further, Atari STILL wouldn't live up to their end and had a pretty poor ad campaign/distribution in Europe. In fact, you couldn't even find DDO on Atari's website until a couple months ago after Turbine and Hasbro sued them.
It is well known that Atari appeared to be sabotaging DDO from the beginning, possibly in an attempt to use Turbine's DDO to test the D&D MMO player interest, while hoping it would fail so they could make their own.
Where does it say that Atari forced Turbine to release ddo 6 months early? I would like to read something to that affect.
As for the statements of the lawsuit, they really don't change the game that Turbine made. 6 more months would not have changed the problems of DDO, because 6 months post release it wasn't doing any better. Turbine made a game that did poorly in the subscription market. It wasn't advertising, marketing or distribution. It just wasn't a very good game and even the people who did play it, the vast majority left.
Atari may have failed at everything it did, but that didn't force turbine to make a bad game. The courts will determine what can be proven and what cannot, but my point was that I can fully understand why Atari would not want to do further business with Turbine, because Turbine delivered a game that flopped.
Atari "appeared" to be sabotaging ddo. Honestly DDO didn't need to be sabotaged. That much should be obvious. For all we know Atari may just not have wanted to further support a game that crashed down to 5 servers. It isn't like 5 servers is going to make large profits for two companies with a third license holder on top of that.
... Even if they said no to the changes proposed it doesn't end the contract does it?
...
Actually, it might have.
This is from the documents filed by Turbine:
40. Turbine would never have entered into Amendment Number Five or the Letter Agreement, nor would it have expended time, money and effort (or staked its reputation) on the launch of DDO: Unlimited had it had any warning that Atari’s representations concerning its enthusiastic support for DDO: Unlimited were false.
In other words - DDO:Unlimited (DDO F2P) would not have happened if Atari had told Turbine they would not support it.
Atari had the option to say "No."
Whether Turbine would have simply hung on to DDO:Stormreach (P2P) until it eventually died it's own death or simply pulled the plug at that point is anyones guess? (Since they never had to make that choice).
If Atari chose to say no to changes that Turbine was asking to make (amendment #5), that does not give them grounds to invalidate the contract. It means the terms of the original contract are still in effect. Nothing changes until both parties agree to make changes. If Atari had the chance to get out of the contract easily, why would they then go through the trouble of trying to break the contract with Turbine as is claimed in the lawsuit?
If Atari chose to say no to changes that Turbine was asking to make (amendment #5), that does not give them grounds to invalidate the contract. It means the terms of the original contract are still in effect. Nothing changes until both parties agree to make changes. If Atari had the chance to get out of the contract easily, why would they then go through the trouble of trying to break the contract with Turbine as is claimed in the lawsuit?
Honestly, who knows?
Reading through the submissions by both Turbine and Hasbro it looks like Atari just mismanaged the whole thing in an effort to be 'clever'. That sounds silly, but you do get that sometimes in business when 'middle manager' types think they can run contracts.
I re-read the documents and remembered that Atari already had the option to produce their own D&D game and compete with Turbine in the same market under Amendment #4 (in which Turbine gave up 'exclusivity') - so they didn't even need to break the contract with Turbine to do what they wanted.
Atari were under no pressure to agree to DDO:Unlimited / Eberron.
They didn't need to break the contract by force... they could simply have let DDO fail and Turbine pull out on their own.
Nothing says irony like spelling ideot wrong.
Yeah, I don't think either of these companies are going to come out of this looking good. Neither company really did a good job with this title and just the rumors about atari are really scary.