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Fastest way to get combat ready?
Maverickroll
Member UncommonPosts: 123
I know I'm asking a lot but, which is the quickest way to become pvp ready, in a viable option?
I'm so tired of fantasy mmos and I've dabbledin Eve some.. but the entire wait X months to really pvp has severely put me off the game but if I have to wait 15 or 20 more minutes to queue up for WoW pvp.. oh god..
i want a sci fi mmo, and star trek online.. well.. yea. im looking to play it but its combat seem shallow, with no consequences.
so how can i get into pvp fast, like within a couple weeks? i know ill never match up to guys flying Titans who have been playing for like 4 years but I know I can like, do SOMETHING in pvp, after spending 6 months getting a warrior to 80 in WoW only to find a further immense grind to just get pvp gear to even come CLOSE to being able to do pvp, I dont want to spend a year of my life mining an asteroid.. or hunting NPC ships.
Comments
Frigate + MWD + Warp Scram + Webber = Combat Tackler and very very VERY useful.
Titans are Capital ships and there is no reason to fly a capital ship. Capitals are low sec only and require a corporation for 1 person to fly it. Very powerful, but very expensive to lose. There are people who've played since 2003 who can't fly Capitals.... or just don't. The most used ships in the game are Frigates, Heavy Assault Ships (Tech 2 cruiser), Battlecruisers, and Battleships.
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Join a PVP corp or faction warfare asap just to listen and learn. That will start breaking down all the barriers. Its more about how much balls and brains you have, not skill points.
Yeah, caps are nullsec toys more than anything else. Winning in Empire space is about costing your opponents more in ISK than winning at any cost. 0.0 is about taking or keeping what someone has at any cost. So the top-of-the-line/most expensive toys in the game are used in nullsec far more than Empire (Though caps are seen in lowsec, they really aren't all that common where they're actually looking for a fight...)
PS: T2 BC's are Command Ships. T2 Cruisers are Heavy Assault. Both require no farther gunnery training than medium and both types can be flown, with mostly level 5 skills, within the first year of a player joining the game -- if they focus their training.
As for the OP:
You *CAN* 'catch up' to a "since beta" pilot with respect to your ability to fly a given ship as well as they can. They will just have more ship types they can choose from so don't think you're out of it "joining late" -- skills "max at level 5 and there are only so many skills applicable to any given ship type. They'll just always have more ship options than you but not be better at flying a specific ship.
Training up will take time. Few "high quality" groups want members who don't have the basic skills to fly any ship well so you'll need certain core skills up before the better groups will want you as a member. Core as in capacitor management, fitting proper tank, navigating skills, etc...
As for starting out help: Take a look at EVE University.
They do PvP gang and fleet ops all the time and are a 5+ year old corporation that specializes in training new players so they hold classes and provide practical hands-on experience to newer players. They do have rules on what is and is not allowed to be done and those rules are fairly strictly enforced. (such as no missions, mining nor shopping trips during wars or they'll boot you but they do allow players to leave and rejoin after wars, etc...)
If you can follow the rules they outline, you can do PvP pretty much every day with a group of others. (close to 1,400 members in the corporation -- between 4-6 new players a day join but about 100 or so a month leave) so they play across all time-zones and run multiple PvP gang/fleet ops every day.
They're one of the very few corporations that a new player can trust not to use/abuse them as well as encourage them to get better and move on to other corporations -- they even have a recruiting forum they sponsor where other corporations come and advertise to recruit current members of the university into their corporations. They won't toss folks for staying but they do expect people to leave for "bigger and better" when those members feel ready to move on.
Thats the part that scares me "within the first year".. I dislike having to wait long, long periods of time to be competitive.. I'd give it like a month maybe two but at that point if I couldn't really be included in end-game style pvp.. theres no point for me to play.
What is this "end game" you're speaking of?
Basically when you're "Bill Gates rich".
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totally agree.. skill points will help.. but thats all, roams are generally done in cruisers/battlecruisers... it doesnt take long to learn to fly a cruiser.. and you can level skills to level 3 initially just to get yourself out there. recommend afterburner and shield skill for max tanking/speed.. but most of all, join a corp.. pvp ones are best (personal biais) it doesnt even take days, but hours to get cruiser ready. though i do recommend flying frigates to begin with.. the learning curve is steep and your bound to lose a few - that happens a lot.. but its still fun even so
Basically when you're "Bill Gates rich".
Seems like I'm farther away from it than ever then.
Endgame PvP has no relation to SP, once you could define what endgame PvP actually is in eve(and im totally not going into that), you would probably find that it is related to being in a certain area or corp/alliance. You can be a 2003 player with 90 mil SP and still do the same kind of pvp in the same kind of area as a new player who joined couple weeks ago. There is no artificial barrier between highskillpoint and lowskillpoint players like in WoW, besides as many found out, just cause you got the skills to fly a titan doesnt mean you ever get to see the inside of one. And now tell me, what good does millions of SP in a ship that you dont sit in do you?
To put it in a perspective you know, thats like a warrior who only skilled up his one handed sword skill, and suddenly finds he has no sword but an axe to work with. And now imagine skilling up those weapons would take as long as it does in eve and you get an idea how easy it is to have SPs that do absolutly nothing for the ship/job at hand, they just dont apply.
Also you dont wait for skills to finish, you go out and play with those you have. What SP do is changing your playstayle if you want, for example going from a frigate to a cruiser isnt a straight upgrade, you loose some advantages and you gain others, you will have to adjust how you play in pvp.
Just train for T1 BCs and learning skills right ahead, and fly the ships you train on the way to that goal. Also do the career tutorial missions you can access over the help, they give you awesome free stuff and skills.
Edit: Just an example. Imagine your a cruiser pilot, and spent a year perfecting your skills so you can fly a heavy assault ship perfectly(thats a T2 cruiser). So what does that mean? It does mean you are going to get an edge in the same fight over your cruiser. It also means you wont get the same fights, as people who would have risked a fight with your cruiser, will avoid your HAC. It also means that have to take less risks, you cant afford loosing fights in your HAC all the time. A HAC is if we are generous maybe 40% more efficent, but it costs like 1000% more(i kid you not) and it cant be insured like your Cruiser can, where the insurance will cover the complete ship loss and you only pay for the mods.
So yeah, HACs are cool, but they require a vastly different playstyle and many find the guns-and-glory approach of T1 Cruiser/BCs way more fun. Especially as T1 BCs approach the HACs in pure combat efficency and even surpass it(they lack speed and agility in turn, which can be key for a more cautious approach).
To be competitive? What is the competition you are after? Are you after an arena with one vs one? that what it sounds like, it sounds like you are after individual eventing. Sorry but this is the wrong game for you if that is what you are after. There are no instances or arenas, PvP will be happening all around you as you play. Honoring a duel does occur but this is the exception not the rule.
Eve is where every ship has a weakness and a cheaper less experienced player can exploit it. You can and will loose to someone with less skill points in a cheaper ship. This is the opportunity for new players, you are competitive in PvP within a day of training if you use your brain and choose your engagements. Also if you team up with others and work as a team, things get even better as you can offset each others weaknesses.
Train up to fit something like this:
Rifter
3x T1 150mm AutoCannon
T1 Microwarp drive, T1 Warp disruptor, T1 Stasis Webifier
T1 200mm Armour Plate, T1 gryostabiliser, T1 Overdrive injector.
While you're training skills up for this, do the tutorial missions and make some ISK so you can buy about 5 or 6 of these. Remember that you can insure your ship so that it is effectively free. It is really only the modules you will be paying for.
When you have a few mill in pocket, join Red vs Blue. This is a player-run organisation that exists purely for providing "on demand" PvP in hi-sec. Anyone can join for as long as they like in whatever ship they can fly. It's the nearest thing EvE has to 'Arena PvP', and it's a great way for new players to mix with some of the most experienced PVPers in the game. They're doing it for the sake of easy, fun PVP; you will be doing it to learn PVP basics.
You can drop out whever you want to go make more ISK, and rejoin at your pleasure.
Links:
http://www.scrapheap-challenge.com/viewtopic.php?t=29297
http://rvb.tech-pc.com/index.php
Give me liberty or give me lasers
Quoting for truth. Think of each ship in EVE as a tool in the toolbox. Some are large, some are small, some are expensive. A circular saw is much larger and more expensive than a screwdriver, but it's completely useless for putting in a screw.
Of course you can spend money and buy an electric screwdriver, just as you can spend ISK and train up to use T2 ships, but even these have their disadvantages. They gain powerful specialised abilities, but they all have glaring weaknesses too.
Give me liberty or give me lasers
As others have said, join a pvp corp. PvP in EvE isn't really about one person running around fighting people. Join a pvp corp and they'll have a use for you as part of a team no matter your sp.
Thats the part that scares me "within the first year".. I dislike having to wait long, long periods of time to be competitive.. I'd give it like a month maybe two but at that point if I couldn't really be included in end-game style pvp.. theres no point for me to play.
My end game is playing in a priate/merc corp. For the time being, it is likely to change unless I have burnt all my bridges by then. The requeriment? Being nice to corpmembers, avoid drama and being able to undock from a station in a ship.
You got really great tips here. But please forget the meaning of "end game", just start researching and planning what role you want to furfill. Scouting? Small ship, tackler, long range, armor/shield rep, battleships, ECM... Well the long term vs short term goals.
Within a week or a month and working towards a real long term plan.
Lvl 5 in skills are good, but not a forced requirement unless it is a "must have" to be able to move forward to another skill.
Read lateris post here:
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/264590/Help-me-with-my-build.html
There you get fast build of skills to be able to do some, I think it is for Amarr but you shouyld be able to work something out from there.
EveMon is a great tool to research ship builds and skills. For instance you could look for cheap fleet challenge, importing from battleclinic, for frigates of your taste or from your race of choice and make a first plan there.
I'm so broke. I can't even pay attention.
"You have the right not to be killed"
Hmm when I say endgame I mean something like, a point where I am pretty much done killing stuff to make money and/or getting the skills I need leveled up to fight in pvp (fleet battles, small corp vs corp skirmishes etc)
A few have said I can get a competitive frigate and/or cruiser pretty fast, is there a guide online that will tell me step by step what skills to train to do so, in what order and how to afford the ship + equipment?
Thats the part that scares me "within the first year".. I dislike having to wait long, long periods of time to be competitive.. I'd give it like a month maybe two but at that point if I couldn't really be included in end-game style pvp.. theres no point for me to play.
On my old corps killboard, the pilot with the most kills few a condor. A ship that pretty much any starter caldari pilot can fly right away with less than a days worth of skilling. EVE requiring more of a cooperative nature for pretty much everything, means that there is really no "Required" level to compete. Any ship with a gun on it can help out. toss on a few extra modules and your just helping out more. Most newer players wet there teeth for PVP on tackling and move on from there as it is the easiest and cheapest way to pvp.
Killing stuff to get money and getting new skills pretty much never stops for as long as you play.
Fighting in fleet battles... if you mean bringing a T2-fitted battleship, yeah that's gonna take a while. I'm not going to lie to you, it'll be a year before you can do that. But you know what? Fleet combat in a battleship aint all that great. It's very much something that we do in pursuit of a greater goal rather than being particularly good fun. And fleets need -need- tacklers, interdictors, covop scouts, Electronic warfare - all of which roles are much more accessible in terms of fleet combat, and are generally much more interesting.
Step-by-step training... eh, well figuring that out is part of the fun
Look for commonly advised fits, get EVEmon to tell you what skills you'll need to fit them, take it from there.
Give me liberty or give me lasers
I think i know what you mean, for example in WoW you would maybe first train to maxlevel, get some good gear and then do serious pvp. It doesnt work like that in eve though, im one of those 2004 players, and im still training skills i (imo) desperatly need and i still kill stuff to make ISK to finance my ship addiction. I can definitly say i was never at a point where i felt like i was done, im not focusing purely on combat either though.
Perhaps thats not entirely accurate, actually you could say i had several 'i am done' moments. For example i feel like im done with cruisers, nothing really left to train there for me, likewise i feel done with BCs. Though that doesnt mean i stopped using them, infact i startet using them more cause i felt like i can pull 100% out of them.
Also there is a sortoff shortcut to HACs, t1 faction ships are very close to T2(some feel superior, especially the pirate faction ones) imho and only require normal T1 skills. They also pretty much cost the same as T2 i think so you can get a feel how financing your high SP ships will feel like once you got the skills.
About financing there are two ways. You can either get in a pvp corp that supply their members with free T1 ships, which is not that uncommon. Or you join a PVE oriented corp and simply focus on getting rich, cause ISK can solve alot of things in eve.
as a person who's corp and alliance lives in 0.0, a tackler frigate or interceptor (both easy to get into and fairly cheap) is INVALUABLE to fleet/gang warfare. You can start pvping within a few hours if you are in the right corp.
And never believe the bs that new players cant compete or survive with those who have been around a while.
One should also mention that being a tackle is not a low SP pilot job. Many very high SP players enjoy the fastpaced combat small ships offer and will fly them over pretty much everything else. Personally i never got into it, i prefer cruiser sized ships, which again, i fly over BS/carriers cause i enjoy it more.
OP, you have some misconceptions about the nature of EvE PvP, which many of the above posts have done a good job clarifying. EvE is very unlike WoW, so it’s best to not try and compare the two (though I understand your reasons behind doing so).
If you want fast and furious, easily accessible PvP I suggest focusing on becoming a competent Frigate pilot. It’s the kind of thing that’s pretty quick to get started in, but can take a long time to master (even with lots of skills trained to 5).
Below are two links to pirate Corps, which may interest you:
Blood Money Cartel:
http://www.bloodmoneycartel.net/forum/index.php?sid=c1ac698c8198c09b4bd810c4fac7b520
Tuskers:
http://tuskers.eve-gamers.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2
Piracy might not be your cup of tea, but both links contain some very useful guides to help you: Get fitted properly and understand the mechanics/tactics of Frig PvP.
Good luck…and welcome to EvE!
I know a lot of players see big fancy ships and want to get in them fast for pvp, but you do not need a big fancy ship to kill another.
I want to show you some examples taken from some kills I have acquired over time to prove to you that very quickly you can start killing hac's recons and intys in all tech 1 equipment.
First my ship:
http://triumvirate-alliance.com/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=212014
I use tech 2 guns, tank, mwd because I can but they really are not required. Often people in HAC's will see something like this rupture and think "Oh its only a rupture" when in fact they have little chance to win given how its fit. HAC's often rely on 2 large shield extenders with as tanks and have no active boost and not great resists. You can simply exploit this with a large buffer and a scrambler and web.
Heres what I was able to kill:
http://triumvirate-alliance.com/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=212389
http://triumvirate-alliance.com/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=212492
http://triumvirate-alliance.com/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=212451
Pay attention when they shoot you, are they long range fitted? or short range. If they are long range just orbit them at 1,000meters and if short range blasters try and stay 10km away. Getting into a pvp corp will teach you all the basics. Biggest problem you will run into is finding the "perfect fight". Often you will find yourself trying to solo and 20 hostiles will start chasing you. Keep at it and keep running away from them until you can isolate the fight you want.
Hope this helps
Just FYI -- nobody is feeding you a line about the small ships but I didn't see anyone explain why they work well so I figured I'll give you the why of it.
The guns in the game have "tracking speed" -- how well a gun can keep a target in its sights. Smaller guns track well -- like using a pistol or rifle to track a rabbit running across a field. Bigger guns track slower and have trouble hitting small targets for their full damage.
As such, a frigate is very fast, agile and difficult for the huge cannons on bigger ships to keep up with them so they don't get hit often nor for very much by the big guns -- especially when they are in really close on a target.
So no, bigger isn't really better but bigger with small works very nicely. Small guys get in there and do little damage but can use other modules to keep a big ship from doing a lot -- electronic warfare through propulsion jamming, etc... while still providing some damage assistance. Fleet/groups work best with a mix because of this. If you go too big, smaller targets can reek havoc on you or just run off. If you go too small, bigger targets won't be able to be destroyed by the lower DPS so most go medium class for small group work and/or mix small with large to maximize effects.
That's why there are so many options in the cruiser classes of ships. Cruisers are still on the small side but pack enough punch that, in numbers, they can knock down about anything. HAC = cruiser. Strategic Cruiser is the T3 class of ship in the game, and a wide variety of cruiser based options exist. The same with frigates -- small, fast and a wide variety of roles for them.
So you really don't need to move beyond these classes of ships. Just get better with what you find fun to fly and get a slightly more powerful or specialized version. Or spend the time and work up to the bigger ships but you'll have the most variety of roles and ships in the smaller classes...
Thats the part that scares me "within the first year".. I dislike having to wait long, long periods of time to be competitive.. I'd give it like a month maybe two but at that point if I couldn't really be included in end-game style pvp.. theres no point for me to play.
I am no Eve expert but after about 6 months of game time I can tell you my experience.
If you want to fly the best type of PvP ships (T2 Cruisers and T2 Battlecruisers) and do it with good weapons and fittings then you need to train for atleast 6 RL months.
Either that or spend trade for one in the character trade forum. But you need some serious ISK for that.
Alot of people will tell you to get in a Rifter and be a tackler for the first few months but that, imo, is quite boring as all you do is to slow make it so that assigned targets cant escape while others kill them.
You could get into a T1 Battlecruiser (Drake) and do some damage but even then you would need atleast a month of solid training to get some decent fittings on it.
Then when you get into a good ship that is no guarantee that you will see some decent PvP action. Most PvP in Eve is between uneven sides where one is lured into getting into a fight or trying to escape a bigger fleet. In the 6 months I have been in Eve I have very rarely seen a fleet action between roughly even number of people and even 1v1 is hard to find because many people use one lonely ship as a bait and when attacked call in their friends.
So dont come to Eve and expect battleground PvP and such, there is no such thing.
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