On Macroing...

Slapshot1188

The StarVault stance is that use of any 3rd party program to help in game is against the TOS.  They are allowing the use of macros in beta to help quickly level skills but it will be banned at launch.

 

Here is my take:  It seems obvious at first glance that this is a good policy, but when you dig deeper it's not as simple as it sound.  Right now the official forums are in an uproar because they don't want to have to click something thousands of times... to harvest or whatever.  On top of that.. they have no way of detecting the use of these programs.  This is what really hurt Darkfall.  They stated that you couldn't use macro programs and some people followed that rule.  Other people ignored it and macroed away at their skills and quickly got a huge advantage in game over those following the rules.

 

My point is... by banning their use without an enforcement mechanism is it worse than making them legal?  This is a skill based game.. using your skills makes them go up...there is a huge incentive for folks to macro.

 

(And no.. players reporting each other is not going to work as entire guilds will work to keep their macroers safe... I've seen it in Darkfall)

Slapshot1188

I actually put up a thread that shouldn't turn into a fight.. and no one has any opinions on the macroing situation?

 

gnomad1

Originally posted by Slapshot1188


I actually put up a thread that shouldn't turn into a fight.. and no one has any opinions on the macroing situation?
 

They don't want the truth to be known that they are already writing their macros 

HanoverZ

Originally posted by Slapshot1188


I actually put up a thread that shouldn't turn into a fight.. and no one has any opinions on the macroing situation?
 

 

Whats there to discuss? You either macro or you don't, the TOS/EULA are irrelevent. The bigger issue is the "need" to macro.

osmunda

Originally posted by Slapshot1188


Here is my take:  It seems obvious at first glance that this is a good policy, but when you dig deeper it's not as simple as it sound.  Right now the official forums are in an uproar because they don't want to have to click something thousands of times... to harvest or whatever.  On top of that.. they have no way of detecting the use of these programs.  This is what really hurt Darkfall.  They stated that you couldn't use macro programs and some people followed that rule.  Other people ignored it and macroed away at their skills and quickly got a huge advantage in game over those following the rules.
My point is... by banning their use without an enforcement mechanism is it worse than making them legal?  This is a skill based game.. using your skills makes them go up...there is a huge incentive for folks to macro.
(And no.. players reporting each other is not going to work as entire guilds will work to keep their macroers safe... I've seen it in Darkfall)

 

As I understand it, macroing to gain stats and skills will be much less of a factor than in Darkfall because there is a much lower power differential.  Currently the plan is that only primary skills will have a direct effect on your ability to PVP.  The developers have stated that the intent is that you will be able to maximize your primary skills in about 2-3 weeks of regular play (not marathon game play).  If this accurately reflects the state of the game at launch, the macroer will only have a 2 week advantage.  That is a gap that can be closed easily (especially once the macroer hits his stat cap and primary skill cap)

Slapshot1188

What about harvesting or Autoloot scripts? Or scripts to instantly change equipment/weapons?

 

maskedweasel

Originally posted by Slapshot1188


What about harvesting or Autoloot scripts? Or scripts to instantly change equipment/weapons?
 

 

As I haven't played the game and I'm not aware of how tough it is to do any of those things.. its tough for me to say.. but in most instances I would say no to any extensive forms of macroing .... most especially recursive macros.  If people are currently using recursive macros I would probably ban them.. and I could understand why.. but again, as I haven't played the game, I'm not sure how necessary they may be for what the game might be lacking.

osmunda

Originally posted by Slapshot1188


What about harvesting or Autoloot scripts? Or scripts to instantly change equipment/weapons?
 

Using macros to harvest while afk is a bad idea in a full loot open PVP game.  As far as autoloot or scripts to change equipment, I don't know think they will have an effective block for that, but at least those only provide a minor edge.

Itinerant

Originally posted by osmunda

Originally posted by Slapshot1188


What about harvesting or Autoloot scripts? Or scripts to instantly change equipment/weapons?
 

Using macros to harvest while afk is a bad idea in a full loot open PVP game.  As far as autoloot or scripts to change equipment, I don't know think they will have an effective block for that, but at least those only provide a minor edge.

 

Autoloot scripts only providing a minor edge, in a full loot game?

Are you NUTS?

In UO, items were being script looted right near the end of it's last good days, in the pvp champion spawns. It sucked then, and will always suck, when people can insta-click and loot certain items in a priority, without ever having to drag a mouse. It almost ruined Darkfall for good, had the gms not stepped up and actually did thier first wave of  suspension/banning, of about 180 accounts. And thats alot of revenue to let go of, in a niche game.

What people should fear at this point, is the fact that Mortal Online won't be banning accounts after launch, because they will need the subs/revenue.

Lexiscat

In my opinion skill based games should have a cap on the amount someone can gain in a given amount of time.

Or, use a system like i hear  Eve uses.

 

For MO at least having a skill cap for the day, or week would make macroing useless. If greatest possible increase each week is 2 points in any 2 skills, then a casual who gets an hour a day might get that over the week, and the weekend warrior does the same on saturday.

 

(Also, you can justify it as being realistic.  Not everyone can learn at the same rate, or same amount in a given time.  It is possible to cap yourself out of how much your brain can take in and remain coherent. That is where traits can represent genetics imo in rpgs. )

 

Slapshot1188

Originally posted by Lexiscat


For MO at least having a skill cap for the day, or week would make macroing useless. If greatest possible increase each week is 2 points in any 2 skills, then a casual who gets an hour a day might get that over the week, and the weekend warrior does the same on saturday.
 

 

Yes.. I agree that a skill increase cap would help.  Let it be on a curve so that maybe you can go from 0-10 in one day.. but you can only go up 1 point (or even 1 tenth of a point) per day in the 90s...  something like that.

I guess my questions still remains:

We KNOW people will use macroing, and autolootscripts (yay we killed the Epic one time only dragon.. one guy grabbed everything).  People will also use them to gain an edge in combat (180degree jump spin,  instantly change equip to cast and change back to full plate).

Since SV has no way of detecting them.. are they correct for banning them?  You can substitute pretty much ANY company instead of SV so this doesn't turn into a bash thread.   I saw what happened in DF. People who followed the rules fell behind in character development, equipment (due to resources and cash) and crafting.  By a large margin.

Does banning something yuu cannot currently auto-detect/enforce simply reward peolpe who will break the rules by giving them an edge in a FFA PvP game?

 

Lexiscat

Originally posted by Slapshot1188



Does banning something yuu cannot currently auto-detect/enforce simply reward peolpe who will break the rules by giving them an edge in a FFA PvP game?
 

 

Short answer is yes.  I guess you could use Baseball as a RL comparison.  Mark Mcgwire for example cheated and even broke records while cheating.

Got Steroids?

In my opinion, it isn't the cheating itself that is so wrong, but the frustration it causes those who follow the rules. Any legitimate contender maybe discouraged when eclipsed by someone willing to break the rules.

There really needs to be a way to make cheating less desirable. Make it so people don't feel compelled to cheat to compete.