I'm also not sure why the UO "level-less" system was considered better. It's just a different way to accomplish the same thing. You could easily apply levels to UO by simply using skill ranges.
For example, taking into account your combat skill average:
0-50 range meant that you were stuck wandering the forests and/or using a practice dummy.
50-70 range, usually meant that you would wander around the orc camps, entrances of the dungeons, polar bears or lizard man spawns
70-85 range, now your actually able to go into the different areas of the dungeons, but not the worst areas. Most of the areas you used to go to are beneath your "level". Resource gathering is relatively safe now. Hey, maybe you should work on your lumberjacking. Oh wait, they nerfed the bonus. No wait, they brough it back. Wait, they nerfed it again. Oh wait, they brought it back......
85-100 range, okay.. now your looking to GM your skill. Off to battle the Ettins. One of the most common places for melee skills atleast. Once you are at the 95+ range, you can go in almost all areas of dunegons.
That was old UO. Now today, it's basically the same thing except up to 120 skill and you have to go through the gear grind like everywhere else. The difference is that in UO you can simply buy your gear, if you can afford it. Otherwise, you will need to start out with lower end content before working your way up the paragon food chain.
Not everyone likes the idea of playing a video game and losing hours of progress just because someone who is bored decided to kill you and loot your stuff while you were busy doing something else.
And for some people, the idea of having to keep an eye open and learning to avoid those types made the given activity more interesting. For some people, the "time lost" if they were PK'd wasn't an "oh my god" travesty because it was part of playing the game and they weren't in a hurry to get anywhere.... a concept I know might be alien to many newer MMO players. And it's not because they had "no life" it's because they simply... ready for it? ... weren't in a hurry to get to the end-game.
Some people don't want to be interrupted while playing, can you fault them for that? No. How would you like it if while you were trying to gank someone a friend walked in your room and turned off your computer? Not fun, is it? And some people didn't consider it being "interrupted".. they considered it part of playing the game.
As for the shutting off the PC analogy... umm... wtf? How did that even begin to sound rational to you? And, yes, I understood it. It's just a ridiculous analogy. In case you don't understand why I say that.... let me explain... In a MMO with PvP implemented by design.. you're *supposed to* be able to go up and attack other players who are, perhaps, questing, or farming, etc. That's part of the intended game play. The player doing it might be a jerk, but the act of doing it is fully supported by the gameplay. Someone coming into your room and shutting off your computer while you're playing is a dick move, period, because it's *not* something that's intended to happen by "design".
The better question would be... if it bothers you that someone can come up and gank you while you're doing something else... then why the hell are you playing a game that allows that kind of thing in the first place?
See, here's another crazy concept to go along with some people not being in a hurry when they play a MMO... not everyone shares the same taste in gaming as you, or me, or that guy over there... That's why there are different types of games, intended for different types of players. Because not everyone enjoys the same thing. I know! Completely fucked up concept, isn't it?!
So... when you (you in general) decide to try a game and find it wasn't designed in a way you enjoy... it doesn't mean "the designers failed to make a fun game". It means... it's simply not your preferred playstyle. No, really... every MMO you try isn't supposed to be designed to cater specifically to *you* because *you* decided to grace it with your digital presence. And the game is not a "failure" for not doing so. And it doesn't mean the developers have "no clue"... and on and on... It means *it's not the kind of game you enjoy and instead of bitching about it you should probably move on to another MMO that you might enjoy more"... Gee! The ground-breaking concepts are just bursting out of me tonight!
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Originally posted by Kaelaan21 I'm also not sure why the UO "level-less" system was considered better. It's just a different way to accomplish the same thing. You could easily apply levels to UO by simply using skill ranges. For example, taking into account your combat skill average:
0-50 range meant that you were stuck wandering the forests and/or using a practice dummy. 50-70 range, usually meant that you would wander around the orc camps, entrances of the dungeons, polar bears or lizard man spawns 70-85 range, now your actually able to go into the different areas of the dungeons, but not the worst areas. Most of the areas you used to go to are beneath your "level". Resource gathering is relatively safe now. Hey, maybe you should work on your lumberjacking. Oh wait, they nerfed the bonus. No wait, they brough it back. Wait, they nerfed it again. Oh wait, they brought it back...... 85-100 range, okay.. now your looking to GM your skill. Off to battle the Ettins. One of the most common places for melee skills atleast. Once you are at the 95+ range, you can go in almost all areas of dunegons.
That was old UO. Now today, it's basically the same thing except up to 120 skill and you have to go through the gear grind like everywhere else. The difference is that in UO you can simply buy your gear, if you can afford it. Otherwise, you will need to start out with lower end content before working your way up the paragon food chain.
A huge difference is that just because you had lower total skill points that didn't completely exclude you from playing with your already developed buddies. Sure, you won't be as effective as they are but why should you be with lower skill points?
An enormous difference, now, with the advent of WoWs success and it's clones that have followed suit. Levels impose a restriction that is based on nothing but a number of very little significance.
edit: Also, screw the formatting on this website. Worst forum formatting of all time.
Not everyone likes the idea of playing a video game and losing hours of progress just because someone who is bored decided to kill you and loot your stuff while you were busy doing something else.
And for some people, the idea of having to keep an eye open and learning to avoid those types made otherwise less interesting tasks more... well.. interesting. For some people, the "time lost" if they were PK'd wasn't an "oh my god" travesty because it was part of playing the game and they weren't in a hurry to get anywhere.... a concept I know might be alien to many newer MMO players. And it's not because they had "no life" it's because they simply... ready for it? ... weren't in a hurry to get to the end-game.
Some people don't want to be interrupted while playing, can you fault them for that? No. How would you like it if while you were trying to gank someone a friend walked in your room and turned off your computer? Not fun, is it? And some people didn't consider it being "interrupted".. they considered it part of playing the game. As for the analogy... umm... wtf?
See, here's another crazy concept to go along with some people not being in a hurry when they play a MMO... not everyone shares the same taste in gaming as you, or me, or that guy over there... That's why there are different types of games, intended for different types of players. Because not everyone enjoys the same thing. I know! Completely fucked up concept, isn't it?!
So... when you (you in general) decide to try a game and find it wasn't designed in a way you enjoy... it doesn't mean "the designers failed to make a fun game". It means... it's simply not your preferred playstyle. No, really... every MMO you try isn't supposed to be designed to cater specifically to *you* because *you* decided to grace it with your digital presence. And the game is not a "failure" for not doing so. And it doesn't mean the developers have "no clue"... and on and on... It means *it's not the kind of game you enjoy and instead of bitching about it you should probably move on to another MMO that you might enjoy more"... Gee! The ground-breaking concepts are just bursting out of me tonight!
Did I say anywhere that UO sucked, or that games with open PVP suck? Reading comprehension. It helps.
I loved UO, played it all the time, but as I got older and had less time to play games, I had less of a desire to want to lose my progress from someone who was as young as I was killing them because I had all the free time in the world.
Yeah, sorry, I'm convinced that teenagers are your PKers. You won't convince me of that, just because I know it'll piss you off to hear that from me, I'm going to say i'm that narrow-minded. When I got older, PKing became a thing of the past to me, I saw it as immature, douchy, and all I was doing was ruining their fun.
If you tell me that everytime you get ganked in an MMO you aren't at the slightest mad or upset at ALL that you lost progress, you're a liar. Have fun playing a game where you're in denial the entire time.
Again, i NEVER said that because I didn't open PVP that a game sucks. Re-read my post, or don't, cause obviously you read half of it and jumped to conclusions. My analogy was spot on. If you want to gank someone and interrupt their play time, have a friend turn off your computer and see if it was fun.
That having been said, UO is and still was the greatest MMO I have ever played.
Not wanting to be interrupted has nothing to do with being in a hurry, do you like being interrupted when doing normal daily tasks that you WANT to get done? If you say yes, you're in denial again, who wants to be interrupted? Unless you're about to sleep with a girl that turns out not to be a girl, then I would want someone to interrupt me.
I recall in '01 playing Ultima Onlne thinking this is great and I can't imagine what great games this will spawn. Back then I thought we would see games developed that would offer complex house building, farming lands and herding wild animals into pens to sheer and slaughter. Games with balance in pve and pvp where both aren't game makers or breakers but both are fun. Content that is player created and supported by the company and vice versa. Imagine what gaming would be like if gaming went with the UO style rather than the EQ style. I for one think it sounds better than hitting level 9000 and raiding to gain super sayain gear with flames.
Excellent post. It is quite a thought isnt it? IT is a shame what has become of that grand old game and that a true sequel of the same nature has never been done to this day.
Wow, you're an idiot. Did I say anywhere that UO sucked, or that games with open PVP suck? Reading comprehension. It helps. I loved UO, played it all the time, but as I got older and had less time to play games, I had less of a desire to want to lose my progress from someone who was as young as I was killing them because I had all the free time in the world. Yeah, sorry, I'm convinced that teenagers are your PKers. You won't convince me of that, just because I know it'll piss you off to hear that from me, I'm going to say i'm that narrow-minded. When I got older, PKing became a thing of the past to me, I saw it as immature, douchy, and all I was doing was ruining their fun. If you tell me that everytime you get ganked in an MMO you aren't at the slightest mad or upset at ALL that you lost progress, you're a liar. Have fun playing a game where you're in denial the entire time. Again, i NEVER said that because I didn't open PVP that a game sucks. Re-read my post, or don't, cause obviously you read half of it and jumped to conclusions. My analogy was spot on. If you want to gank someone and interrupt their play time, have a friend turn off your computer and see if it was fun. That having been said, UO is and still was the greatest MMO I have ever played. Not wanting to be interrupted has nothing to do with being in a hurry, do you like being interrupted when doing normal daily tasks that you WANT to get done? If you say yes, you're in denial again, who wants to be interrupted? Unless you're about to sleep with a girl that turns out not to be a girl, then I would want someone to interrupt me. I'm still laughing that you jumped to the conclusion that I said anywhere that a game was a failure -.-
Forgive mike he is currently going through his Darkfall Regression stage. Eventually the glasses will come off and he will be back to posting normal posts.
A huge difference is that just because you had lower total skill points that didn't completely exclude you from playing with your already developed buddies. Sure, you won't be as effective as they are but why should you be with lower skill points? An enormous difference, now, with the advent of WoWs success and it's clones that have followed suit. Levels impose a restriction that is based on nothing but a number of very little significance. edit: Also, screw the formatting on this website. Worst forum formatting of all time.
Yeah, sometimes the formatting with replies goes wonky. Anyway...
I know what you mean with the level restrictions. Level restrictions do bug me. But, in a shared XP party based system - the reason is obvious. Power leveling. I did play EQ a little, but I left UO for DAoC. That game had (and still has) a shared XP party based system and there are no level restrictions on non-instanced content (instanced stuff happened much later after release). The problem was that a maxed out level 50 would be able to go into a level 50 area and farm for XP and keep the lowbie alive. Granting that person XP with no risk other than .. don't touch anything.
On the flip side, in UO, there were times that people would get pissed because if they didn't get a hit off .. they wouldn't get any skill gain. People would start squaking when they were working on their skill (such as the Ettin camps) and someone would kill the mob that they were training the Parry skill against.
Wow, you're an idiot. Did I say anywhere that UO sucked, or that games with open PVP suck? Reading comprehension. It helps. I loved UO, played it all the time, but as I got older and had less time to play games, I had less of a desire to want to lose my progress from someone who was as young as I was killing them because I had all the free time in the world. Yeah, sorry, I'm convinced that teenagers are your PKers. You won't convince me of that, just because I know it'll piss you off to hear that from me, I'm going to say i'm that narrow-minded. When I got older, PKing became a thing of the past to me, I saw it as immature, douchy, and all I was doing was ruining their fun. If you tell me that everytime you get ganked in an MMO you aren't at the slightest mad or upset at ALL that you lost progress, you're a liar. Have fun playing a game where you're in denial the entire time. Again, i NEVER said that because I didn't open PVP that a game sucks. Re-read my post, or don't, cause obviously you read half of it and jumped to conclusions. My analogy was spot on. If you want to gank someone and interrupt their play time, have a friend turn off your computer and see if it was fun. That having been said, UO is and still was the greatest MMO I have ever played. Not wanting to be interrupted has nothing to do with being in a hurry, do you like being interrupted when doing normal daily tasks that you WANT to get done? If you say yes, you're in denial again, who wants to be interrupted? Unless you're about to sleep with a girl that turns out not to be a girl, then I would want someone to interrupt me. I'm still laughing that you jumped to the conclusion that I said anywhere that a game was a failure -.-
Forgive mike he is currently going through his Darkfall Regression stage. Eventually the glasses will come off and he will be back to posting normal posts.
Haha, yeah I remember him from Darkfall forums, I don't hold anything against them. I respect them for liking a game like DF, cause I just can't anymore.
I think I said what I meant to say. Sorry you don't understand Mr. Sheep.
The way I put it is the reality of the situation. You can choose to fling poorly-veiled personal insults, or you can recognize the reality of the situation for what it is and admit that it's unrealistic to want the entire game design industry to cater to the demands of the minority.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
No the first guy was right. I did play UO at launch and looking back on it the community was the worst open sewer of all time. We still played and loved it because there was nothing else like it. You did meet decent people but servers were packed with griefers and just complete jack offs. EQ1 at launch was by no means an easy game. There was a severe death penalty and mandatory corpse runs to reclaim your gear when you died. You died a lot, because you could not outrun any mobs and if you started to lose you died. There was no in game map, no compass, no quest helper, and actually very few quests. Leveling up consisted of grouping (you had to group to get decent xp) and grinding. Leveling took a long time. It was a tough game...but still the best online experience I have ever had. I think a big problem with original UO was the unlimited open world pvp/complete loot model. Games like that always attract the absolute dregs of the internet.
Amen to that. These days time is money so less time sinks the better. Most of the people (grown ups) who have full time jobs don't have that luxury of time anymore. I don't want to spend hours upon hours collecting resources only to be ganked by some jerk and lose everything to start from zero.
It may have been smarter to grab some resources, recall to the bank, and then recall back out to the exact spot and grab some more, than stand there with hours and hours worth of resources in yout pack...
Not to mention, with hours and hours worth of resources in your pack, it would have been very difficult to move, even if you dropped it on the ground and dragged it... But then you'd just be asking for it...
You must be one of the PKers? you just proved the point why people don't want open world pvp games. Just to avoid players like yourself.
Err.. huh?
Actually... he was just giving an example of how to avoid losing all that time and effort to said "PK'ers" ... by being smart and not making yourself an easy target. Someone knowing how not to become a sitting duck makes them a PK'er to you? Good grief.
And, no.. I wasn't "one of those PK'ers", nor have I ever been.
And i think you missed the whole point of this topic. Players want a safe enviornment to spend their free gaming time in. if someone is doing his own thing and some asshat try to gank him doesn't matter who is being smart or who is being foolish, its just a time sink.
So yeah Good grief for missing the whole point of this topic.
Not everyone likes the idea of playing a video game and losing hours of progress just because someone who is bored decided to kill you and loot your stuff while you were busy doing something else.
And for some people, the idea of having to keep an eye open and learning to avoid those types made otherwise less interesting tasks more... well.. interesting. For some people, the "time lost" if they were PK'd wasn't an "oh my god" travesty because it was part of playing the game and they weren't in a hurry to get anywhere.... a concept I know might be alien to many newer MMO players. And it's not because they had "no life" it's because they simply... ready for it? ... weren't in a hurry to get to the end-game.
Some people don't want to be interrupted while playing, can you fault them for that? No. How would you like it if while you were trying to gank someone a friend walked in your room and turned off your computer? Not fun, is it? And some people didn't consider it being "interrupted".. they considered it part of playing the game. As for the analogy... umm... wtf?
See, here's another crazy concept to go along with some people not being in a hurry when they play a MMO... not everyone shares the same taste in gaming as you, or me, or that guy over there... That's why there are different types of games, intended for different types of players. Because not everyone enjoys the same thing. I know! Completely fucked up concept, isn't it?!
So... when you (you in general) decide to try a game and find it wasn't designed in a way you enjoy... it doesn't mean "the designers failed to make a fun game". It means... it's simply not your preferred playstyle. No, really... every MMO you try isn't supposed to be designed to cater specifically to *you* because *you* decided to grace it with your digital presence. And the game is not a "failure" for not doing so. And it doesn't mean the developers have "no clue"... and on and on... It means *it's not the kind of game you enjoy and instead of bitching about it you should probably move on to another MMO that you might enjoy more"... Gee! The ground-breaking concepts are just bursting out of me tonight!
Wow, you're an idiot. Did I say anywhere that UO sucked, or that games with open PVP suck? Reading comprehension. It helps.
Nice! Launching with an ad hominem.. This is going to be quality. Guess I hit a nerve
I loved UO, played it all the time, but as I got older and had less time to play games, I had less of a desire to want to lose my progress from someone who was as young as I was killing them because I had all the free time in the world.
Fine. So then you stop playing the game and move on to something else that better suits your playstyle, leaving those who still enjoy that playstyle to play... Kinda like what I was saying in my previous post.
Yeah, sorry, I'm convinced that teenagers are your PKers. You won't convince me of that, just because I know it'll piss you off to hear that from me, I'm going to say i'm that narrow-minded. When I got older, PKing became a thing of the past to me, I saw it as immature, douchy, and all I was doing was ruining their fun.
So, you're a slave to stereo-types and not afraid to admit it. Hey, at least you admit it. By the way... I've known people in their 30's+ who would go around ganking people just for fun, or because they were bored. Conclusion: Not all "teenagers are your PK'ers".
If you tell me that everytime you get ganked in an MMO you aren't at the slightest mad or upset at ALL that you lost progress, you're a liar. Have fun playing a game where you're in denial the entire time.
Did it irk me? Sure. Did it make me want to stop playing? No. Did it make me enjoy the game any less? No. Did I ever say that I did back-flips and sang joyously when someone ganks me? Nope. Would I have continued playing said game if it did bother me enough? Nope. Sorry... not a liar nor have I ever been in denial. Sorry to ruin your fun... wait.. no I'm not.
Again, i NEVER said that because I didn't open PVP that a game sucks. Re-read my post, or don't, cause obviously you read half of it and jumped to conclusions. My analogy was spot on. If you want to gank someone and interrupt their play time, have a friend turn off your computer and see if it was fun.
No. Your analogy was ridiculous.
Turning off someone's computer is not "intended gameplay" for any game I'm aware of, MMO or otherwise. Further,it can actually do damage under some circumstances... damage that can cost very real money to repair and possibly lots of lost and irreplaceable data. Real world. Real actions. Real consequences. Conversely, if someone comes up to you in a MMO that *allows ganking* as part of the gameplay... and ganks you... then they are *playing the game as designed*. There is no long term damage. The only problem to be found is why the person who took being ganked so harshly is playing a game that allows it in the first place.
The only use your analogy serves is, perhaps, giving insight to how butt hurt you were when it happened to you. To me... being ganked in a PvP MMO that allows it is part of playing the game and was to be expected. If I couldn't accept it or it bothered me too much... I *wouldn't be playing the game*. Again.. *extremely* simple concept to grasp.
That having been said, UO is and still was the greatest MMO I have ever played.
Not wanting to be interrupted has nothing to do with being in a hurry, do you like being interrupted when doing normal daily tasks that you WANT to get done? If you say yes, you're in denial again, who wants to be interrupted? Unless you're about to sleep with a girl that turns out not to be a girl, then I would want someone to interrupt me.
/facepalm.
Are you freaking serious?
See... here's the entire problem with your arguments - you keep trying to compare things in a *video game* to *real life*... which is a relational handicap that I - luckily - don't suffer from. When I am doing something in real life, it's because I'm trying to get something done that matters *in real life*. Playing a game is entertainment and I am doing nothing in the game that is going to impact or effect me in any meaningful way *outside the game*.
So... if someone interrupts me while I'm doing something in a game? Big freaking deal. Does it irk me? Sometimes. If it irks me enough... guess what? I simply do something else that is equally entertaining to me in the game, but equally meaningless outside the game. No big deal.
And, sorry to ruin your little arm-chair psychoanalysis, but I'm not in denial. I simply have a much better grasp on the difference between "video game fantasy" and "real life" than you seem to. I don't weigh one equally with the other.
I'm still laughing that you jumped to the conclusion that I said anywhere that a game was a failure -.-
Where did I say you specifically said the game was a failure? I wasn't even referring specifically to UO. I was referring to a general behavior exhibited by a number of people. Sorry if you took it to be all about you. It wasn't. I should have made that more obvious.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
The reason why UO is so special for all of us, is because MMORPGS at that time wasnt yet created... UO was the first.... the unknown frontier, and for that, it holds a FOREVER special place in our hearts... I will be writing an article soon on how WoW was the "Golden age of MMO" destroyer soon keep tuned!
I think a big problem with original UO was the unlimited open world pvp/complete loot model. Games like that always attract the absolute dregs of the internet.
I agree. Not on UO specifically, just saying that any "sandbox" MMO will have to ditch the FFA PvP idea to be really successful. RvR, faction vs faction, frontier zones, any of these would be a better choice for the large majority of players out there.
The reason why UO is so special for all of us, is because MMORPGS at that time wasnt yet created... UO was the first.... the unknown frontier, and for that, it holds a FOREVER special place in our hearts... I will be writing an article soon on how WoW was the "Golden age of MMO" destroyer soon keep tuned!
Why, because i played the game smart and didn't leave myself open to foolish setbacks?
I played from the day it was released until Age of Shadows.. In that span of time, i never killed anyone that wasn't red, or a known PK... I played as what we called an anti-pk, protecting players from pks..
Nope because people don't find that fun watching their every step of the way. It is a freaking game. Mindless entertainment, NOT espionage.
The business results are pretty clear that people don't like that kind of gaming as much as the EQ .. and later WOW kind. Now THAT is the future, obviously.
I think a big problem with original UO was the unlimited open world pvp/complete loot model. Games like that always attract the absolute dregs of the internet.
I agree. Not on UO specifically, just saying that any "sandbox" MMO will have to ditch the FFA PvP idea to be really successful. RvR, faction vs faction, frontier zones, any of these would be a better choice for the large majority of players out there.
My opinion only... But i have found since UO, that games that cater to gear, seem to me to have a worse community.. When gear is the most important means of progression, well, some folks will do whatever it takes to win (just like in the FFA games, yes)...
There is dregs in all games of course.. There are PKs in FFA PvP, but you also find people that go out of there way to help "noobs".... anti-pks (for example) as i said earlier..
The genre adapted exactly like every entertainment genre adapts. People who play games get more games they like to play. Games no one likes to pay don't get the same support and are reduced to indy, niche titles. Don't say there aren't UO style MMOs out there. There are. They're just niche, EXACTLY like the playerbase that enjoys them. There are PLENTY of sandbox MMOs out there and its all proportional to those willing to spend a monthly fee on them. Basic supply and demand. The demand for sandboxes just isn't very high. It shouldn't be a surprise to anyone, unless you've been living under a rock for the past 10 years=)
Why, because i played the game smart and didn't leave myself open to foolish setbacks? I played from the day it was released until Age of Shadows.. In that span of time, i never killed anyone that wasn't red, or a known PK... I played as what we called an anti-pk, protecting players from pks..
Nope because people don't find that fun watching their every step of the way. It is a freaking game. Mindless entertainment, NOT espionage. The business results are pretty clear that people don't like that kind of gaming as much as the EQ .. and later WOW kind. Now THAT is the future, obviously.
Did you mean because some people?
Yes, it is a freaking game.. and some people don't find it all that entertaining to fight in a safe enviorment against a predictable AI every day...
I think a big problem with original UO was the unlimited open world pvp/complete loot model. Games like that always attract the absolute dregs of the internet.
I agree. Not on UO specifically, just saying that any "sandbox" MMO will have to ditch the FFA PvP idea to be really successful. RvR, faction vs faction, frontier zones, any of these would be a better choice for the large majority of players out there.
My opinion only... But i have found since UO, that games that cater to gear, seem to me to have a worse community.. When gear is the most important means of progression, well, some folks will do whatever it takes to win (just like in the FFA games, yes)...
There is dregs in all games of course.. There are PKs in FFA PvP, but you also find people that go out of there way to help "noobs".... anti-pks (for example) as i said earlier..
My opinion of course.
I'm no fan of elitist gear whores either.
I just have no real belief that we'll ever see a successful FFA system. It's a nice idea, but...
Why, because i played the game smart and didn't leave myself open to foolish setbacks? I played from the day it was released until Age of Shadows.. In that span of time, i never killed anyone that wasn't red, or a known PK... I played as what we called an anti-pk, protecting players from pks..
Nope because people don't find that fun watching their every step of the way. It is a freaking game. Mindless entertainment, NOT espionage. The business results are pretty clear that people don't like that kind of gaming as much as the EQ .. and later WOW kind. Now THAT is the future, obviously.
Did you mean because some people?
Yes, it is a freaking game.. and some people don't find it all that entertaining to fight in a safe enviorment against a predictable AI every day...
I think a big problem with original UO was the unlimited open world pvp/complete loot model. Games like that always attract the absolute dregs of the internet.
I agree. Not on UO specifically, just saying that any "sandbox" MMO will have to ditch the FFA PvP idea to be really successful. RvR, faction vs faction, frontier zones, any of these would be a better choice for the large majority of players out there.
My opinion only... But i have found since UO, that games that cater to gear, seem to me to have a worse community.. When gear is the most important means of progression, well, some folks will do whatever it takes to win (just like in the FFA games, yes)...
There is dregs in all games of course.. There are PKs in FFA PvP, but you also find people that go out of there way to help "noobs".... anti-pks (for example) as i said earlier..
My opinion of course.
I'm no fan of elitist gear whores either.
I just have no real belief that we'll ever see a successful FFA system. It's a nice idea, but...
Depending on your definition of succesful I suppose, but i agree....
Comments
I'm also not sure why the UO "level-less" system was considered better. It's just a different way to accomplish the same thing. You could easily apply levels to UO by simply using skill ranges.
For example, taking into account your combat skill average:
That was old UO. Now today, it's basically the same thing except up to 120 skill and you have to go through the gear grind like everywhere else. The difference is that in UO you can simply buy your gear, if you can afford it. Otherwise, you will need to start out with lower end content before working your way up the paragon food chain.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
A huge difference is that just because you had lower total skill points that didn't completely exclude you from playing with your already developed buddies. Sure, you won't be as effective as they are but why should you be with lower skill points?
An enormous difference, now, with the advent of WoWs success and it's clones that have followed suit. Levels impose a restriction that is based on nothing but a number of very little significance.
edit: Also, screw the formatting on this website. Worst forum formatting of all time.
Did I say anywhere that UO sucked, or that games with open PVP suck? Reading comprehension. It helps.
I loved UO, played it all the time, but as I got older and had less time to play games, I had less of a desire to want to lose my progress from someone who was as young as I was killing them because I had all the free time in the world.
Yeah, sorry, I'm convinced that teenagers are your PKers. You won't convince me of that, just because I know it'll piss you off to hear that from me, I'm going to say i'm that narrow-minded. When I got older, PKing became a thing of the past to me, I saw it as immature, douchy, and all I was doing was ruining their fun.
If you tell me that everytime you get ganked in an MMO you aren't at the slightest mad or upset at ALL that you lost progress, you're a liar. Have fun playing a game where you're in denial the entire time.
Again, i NEVER said that because I didn't open PVP that a game sucks. Re-read my post, or don't, cause obviously you read half of it and jumped to conclusions. My analogy was spot on. If you want to gank someone and interrupt their play time, have a friend turn off your computer and see if it was fun.
That having been said, UO is and still was the greatest MMO I have ever played.
Not wanting to be interrupted has nothing to do with being in a hurry, do you like being interrupted when doing normal daily tasks that you WANT to get done? If you say yes, you're in denial again, who wants to be interrupted? Unless you're about to sleep with a girl that turns out not to be a girl, then I would want someone to interrupt me.
[Mod edit]
Excellent post. It is quite a thought isnt it? IT is a shame what has become of that grand old game and that a true sequel of the same nature has never been done to this day.
Forgive mike he is currently going through his Darkfall Regression stage. Eventually the glasses will come off and he will be back to posting normal posts.
Yeah, sometimes the formatting with replies goes wonky. Anyway...
I know what you mean with the level restrictions. Level restrictions do bug me. But, in a shared XP party based system - the reason is obvious. Power leveling. I did play EQ a little, but I left UO for DAoC. That game had (and still has) a shared XP party based system and there are no level restrictions on non-instanced content (instanced stuff happened much later after release). The problem was that a maxed out level 50 would be able to go into a level 50 area and farm for XP and keep the lowbie alive. Granting that person XP with no risk other than .. don't touch anything.
On the flip side, in UO, there were times that people would get pissed because if they didn't get a hit off .. they wouldn't get any skill gain. People would start squaking when they were working on their skill (such as the Ettin camps) and someone would kill the mob that they were training the Parry skill against.
Forgive mike he is currently going through his Darkfall Regression stage. Eventually the glasses will come off and he will be back to posting normal posts.
Haha, yeah I remember him from Darkfall forums, I don't hold anything against them. I respect them for liking a game like DF, cause I just can't anymore.
The way I put it is the reality of the situation. You can choose to fling poorly-veiled personal insults, or you can recognize the reality of the situation for what it is and admit that it's unrealistic to want the entire game design industry to cater to the demands of the minority.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Amen to that. These days time is money so less time sinks the better. Most of the people (grown ups) who have full time jobs don't have that luxury of time anymore. I don't want to spend hours upon hours collecting resources only to be ganked by some jerk and lose everything to start from zero.
It may have been smarter to grab some resources, recall to the bank, and then recall back out to the exact spot and grab some more, than stand there with hours and hours worth of resources in yout pack...
Not to mention, with hours and hours worth of resources in your pack, it would have been very difficult to move, even if you dropped it on the ground and dragged it... But then you'd just be asking for it...
You must be one of the PKers? you just proved the point why people don't want open world pvp games. Just to avoid players like yourself.
Err.. huh?
Actually... he was just giving an example of how to avoid losing all that time and effort to said "PK'ers" ... by being smart and not making yourself an easy target. Someone knowing how not to become a sitting duck makes them a PK'er to you? Good grief.
And, no.. I wasn't "one of those PK'ers", nor have I ever been.
And i think you missed the whole point of this topic. Players want a safe enviornment to spend their free gaming time in. if someone is doing his own thing and some asshat try to gank him doesn't matter who is being smart or who is being foolish, its just a time sink.
So yeah Good grief for missing the whole point of this topic.
Wow, you're an idiot. Did I say anywhere that UO sucked, or that games with open PVP suck? Reading comprehension. It helps.
Nice! Launching with an ad hominem.. This is going to be quality. Guess I hit a nerve
I loved UO, played it all the time, but as I got older and had less time to play games, I had less of a desire to want to lose my progress from someone who was as young as I was killing them because I had all the free time in the world.
Fine. So then you stop playing the game and move on to something else that better suits your playstyle, leaving those who still enjoy that playstyle to play... Kinda like what I was saying in my previous post.
Yeah, sorry, I'm convinced that teenagers are your PKers. You won't convince me of that, just because I know it'll piss you off to hear that from me, I'm going to say i'm that narrow-minded. When I got older, PKing became a thing of the past to me, I saw it as immature, douchy, and all I was doing was ruining their fun.
So, you're a slave to stereo-types and not afraid to admit it. Hey, at least you admit it. By the way... I've known people in their 30's+ who would go around ganking people just for fun, or because they were bored. Conclusion: Not all "teenagers are your PK'ers".
If you tell me that everytime you get ganked in an MMO you aren't at the slightest mad or upset at ALL that you lost progress, you're a liar. Have fun playing a game where you're in denial the entire time.
Did it irk me? Sure. Did it make me want to stop playing? No. Did it make me enjoy the game any less? No. Did I ever say that I did back-flips and sang joyously when someone ganks me? Nope. Would I have continued playing said game if it did bother me enough? Nope. Sorry... not a liar nor have I ever been in denial. Sorry to ruin your fun... wait.. no I'm not.
Again, i NEVER said that because I didn't open PVP that a game sucks. Re-read my post, or don't, cause obviously you read half of it and jumped to conclusions. My analogy was spot on. If you want to gank someone and interrupt their play time, have a friend turn off your computer and see if it was fun.
No. Your analogy was ridiculous.
Turning off someone's computer is not "intended gameplay" for any game I'm aware of, MMO or otherwise. Further,it can actually do damage under some circumstances... damage that can cost very real money to repair and possibly lots of lost and irreplaceable data. Real world. Real actions. Real consequences. Conversely, if someone comes up to you in a MMO that *allows ganking* as part of the gameplay... and ganks you... then they are *playing the game as designed*. There is no long term damage. The only problem to be found is why the person who took being ganked so harshly is playing a game that allows it in the first place.
The only use your analogy serves is, perhaps, giving insight to how butt hurt you were when it happened to you. To me... being ganked in a PvP MMO that allows it is part of playing the game and was to be expected. If I couldn't accept it or it bothered me too much... I *wouldn't be playing the game*. Again.. *extremely* simple concept to grasp.
That having been said, UO is and still was the greatest MMO I have ever played.
Not wanting to be interrupted has nothing to do with being in a hurry, do you like being interrupted when doing normal daily tasks that you WANT to get done? If you say yes, you're in denial again, who wants to be interrupted? Unless you're about to sleep with a girl that turns out not to be a girl, then I would want someone to interrupt me.
/facepalm.
Are you freaking serious?
See... here's the entire problem with your arguments - you keep trying to compare things in a *video game* to *real life*... which is a relational handicap that I - luckily - don't suffer from. When I am doing something in real life, it's because I'm trying to get something done that matters *in real life*. Playing a game is entertainment and I am doing nothing in the game that is going to impact or effect me in any meaningful way *outside the game*.
So... if someone interrupts me while I'm doing something in a game? Big freaking deal. Does it irk me? Sometimes. If it irks me enough... guess what? I simply do something else that is equally entertaining to me in the game, but equally meaningless outside the game. No big deal.
And, sorry to ruin your little arm-chair psychoanalysis, but I'm not in denial. I simply have a much better grasp on the difference between "video game fantasy" and "real life" than you seem to. I don't weigh one equally with the other.
I'm still laughing that you jumped to the conclusion that I said anywhere that a game was a failure -.-
Where did I say you specifically said the game was a failure? I wasn't even referring specifically to UO. I was referring to a general behavior exhibited by a number of people. Sorry if you took it to be all about you. It wasn't. I should have made that more obvious.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
If it's as great as we all claim, it would be our future. 'Nuff said.
The reason why UO is so special for all of us, is because MMORPGS at that time wasnt yet created... UO was the first.... the unknown frontier, and for that, it holds a FOREVER special place in our hearts... I will be writing an article soon on how WoW was the "Golden age of MMO" destroyer soon
keep tuned!
I agree. Not on UO specifically, just saying that any "sandbox" MMO will have to ditch the FFA PvP idea to be really successful. RvR, faction vs faction, frontier zones, any of these would be a better choice for the large majority of players out there.
Ughhh not again!!
Why, because i played the game smart and didn't leave myself open to foolish setbacks?
I played from the day it was released until Age of Shadows.. In that span of time, i never killed anyone that wasn't red, or a known PK... I played as what we called an anti-pk, protecting players from pks..
Nope because people don't find that fun watching their every step of the way. It is a freaking game. Mindless entertainment, NOT espionage.
The business results are pretty clear that people don't like that kind of gaming as much as the EQ .. and later WOW kind. Now THAT is the future, obviously.
One of these it will click in peoples head,Game Makers cater to what players want to play.Hint,Hint.
The second thing is you don't have to pick between Sandbox and themepark there is a middle ground.
I agree. Not on UO specifically, just saying that any "sandbox" MMO will have to ditch the FFA PvP idea to be really successful. RvR, faction vs faction, frontier zones, any of these would be a better choice for the large majority of players out there.
My opinion only... But i have found since UO, that games that cater to gear, seem to me to have a worse community.. When gear is the most important means of progression, well, some folks will do whatever it takes to win (just like in the FFA games, yes)...
There is dregs in all games of course.. There are PKs in FFA PvP, but you also find people that go out of there way to help "noobs".... anti-pks (for example) as i said earlier..
My opinion of course.
The genre adapted exactly like every entertainment genre adapts. People who play games get more games they like to play. Games no one likes to pay don't get the same support and are reduced to indy, niche titles. Don't say there aren't UO style MMOs out there. There are. They're just niche, EXACTLY like the playerbase that enjoys them. There are PLENTY of sandbox MMOs out there and its all proportional to those willing to spend a monthly fee on them. Basic supply and demand. The demand for sandboxes just isn't very high. It shouldn't be a surprise to anyone, unless you've been living under a rock for the past 10 years=)
Probably. But, we need an MMO developer to prove that to us. Right now, theres not much middle ground out there.
Did you mean because some people?
Yes, it is a freaking game.. and some people don't find it all that entertaining to fight in a safe enviorment against a predictable AI every day...
/shrug
I agree. Not on UO specifically, just saying that any "sandbox" MMO will have to ditch the FFA PvP idea to be really successful. RvR, faction vs faction, frontier zones, any of these would be a better choice for the large majority of players out there.
My opinion only... But i have found since UO, that games that cater to gear, seem to me to have a worse community.. When gear is the most important means of progression, well, some folks will do whatever it takes to win (just like in the FFA games, yes)...
There is dregs in all games of course.. There are PKs in FFA PvP, but you also find people that go out of there way to help "noobs".... anti-pks (for example) as i said earlier..
My opinion of course.
I'm no fan of elitist gear whores either.
I just have no real belief that we'll ever see a successful FFA system. It's a nice idea, but...
Did you mean because some people?
Yes, it is a freaking game.. and some people don't find it all that entertaining to fight in a safe enviorment against a predictable AI every day...
/shrug
Yeah .. SOME people .. at least 11M of them.
I agree. Not on UO specifically, just saying that any "sandbox" MMO will have to ditch the FFA PvP idea to be really successful. RvR, faction vs faction, frontier zones, any of these would be a better choice for the large majority of players out there.
My opinion only... But i have found since UO, that games that cater to gear, seem to me to have a worse community.. When gear is the most important means of progression, well, some folks will do whatever it takes to win (just like in the FFA games, yes)...
There is dregs in all games of course.. There are PKs in FFA PvP, but you also find people that go out of there way to help "noobs".... anti-pks (for example) as i said earlier..
My opinion of course.
I'm no fan of elitist gear whores either.
I just have no real belief that we'll ever see a successful FFA system. It's a nice idea, but...
Depending on your definition of succesful I suppose, but i agree....
Probably. But, we need an MMO developer to prove that to us. Right now, theres not much middle ground out there.
Well every future mmo maker needs to be locked in a room for a week and forced to play Elder Scrolls Oblivion.