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General: Comparing City of Heroes to Champions
Stradden
Managing EditorMember CommonPosts: 6,696
MMORPG.com's Bill Murphy writes this article looking at the two current superhero MMOs side by side and comparing a number of different elements of each.
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When City of Heroes launched in 2004, it walked into a world of orcs and elves as just about the only option for players looking for something different in the MMORPG space. It quickly became known as "The Widowmaker" among its fantasy brethren, as hundreds of thousands of superhero hopefuls donned tights and took to Liberty City to fight crime.
For five years City of Heroes dominated the Superhero MMOG world, until its developer, Cryptic Studios, decided to move on and try something new. That something new was originally intended to be a new caped crusader MMOG set in the Marvel Comics Universe. But for reasons we may never know the full extent of, the title was scrapped by Microsoft. Cryptic didn't waste time in moving on. They secured the rights to the popular pen and paper role-playing game Champions and began making Champions Online to compete directly with their first child, City of Heroes.
Cheers,
Jon Wood
Managing Editor
MMORPG.com
Comments
To be fair, I must state I've not played Champions online.
Nor will I. There's nothing in this article that remotely encourages me to switch. I'm plenty satisfied with CoX's character creation, and have never felt it didn't have enough options, particularly in light of recently added customization with regard to colors.
Soloability? As a devout soloer, it's hard to imagine a more solo-friendly game than CoX. There are, perhaps, 20 quests in the entire game that can't be soloed? And not a one of them offers you loot (other than a badge) that you can't get elsewhere, something ALL MMOs need to learn to do.
Repetitiveness? CoH certainly has it, as do most MMOs. From what I've read though, CO has very limited quest options at low levels.
Blocking in combat. That might be your cup of tea, but I don't think it's appropriate for all superheroes. If you're playing a Captain America type, that shield is sure handy. But how often do you see a Hulk-type hero blocking? They are there for DAMAGE!
Call it fanboyism if you want, but CoH is simply the best MMO I've ever played because it offers me exactly the type of MMO I want: fast, fun combat (I oh so love knocking villains 30 feet across the street or down some stairs), and NO forced grouping is ever required to obtain the best loot in the game.
The city in City of Heroes is Paragon City, not Liberty City. Or the Rogue Isles for City of Villains.
I agree.
CO has the two features that I absolutely HATE about the majority of MMOs: Spawn Camping & Dailies - CoH has neither!
To be fair, CO & CoH shouldn't be compared - CO is a wannabe WoW in tights - compare it to WoW...they have more in common with each other, except for the skin.
CoH: Mr E-Man, Energy Arc, IG-2112MD, Slayer Faith, Master TimeLord Mr E-Being
CoV: Mr E-Villain, Dark Willow, Cold Satisfaction, Mr E-Mech, Mr E-Lectric
Freedom Server
Champions Online is called WoW in tights for a reason. For every great idea it had, they were implemented in a very orthodox MMO game design manner, which is precisely what did not keep many of the CoH playerbase from switching.
Combat
I believe the comparison could be a little more in depth. While it is true that CO changes their combat mechanics from the ground up to make it "feel" like a more active system, in essence by level 4 you are still doing the same thing if you examine your keyboard playstyle: 1,1,2,1,1,2,1,2,1,2. Move around a bit? That's what is known as kiting elsewhere. Block is really the only thing which has been added, and is really not that different from hitting a shield power in other games.
Grouping
Yeah, it's a joke and there is no reason to in CO. It's been ranted about elsewhere.
Missions
People who play superhero MMO's are burnt out by the fantasy games and accordingly their approach to world design. Open world quests largely grate on veteran player's nerves because spawn camping objectives has two problems, one physical and one mental. The physical problem is that you need to stand around for objectives to respawn because you're competing with other people to do the same darn thing, which I have never, ever found fun. The mental problem is that you are nagged with the question of why are you even bothering to do this, if others are doing the exact same thing, and the results of your actions don't even make a difference if the objectives are just magically reverting minutes later anyway?
Instanced missions at least give the illusion that you' (or your team) are in charge of your own task, and can reap the benefits of it accordingly, feeling the consequences. Sure, other people might be doing the same task in another mission, but it's not up and in your face. The mission tiles in CoH could be tossed up a bit more, though it's a shame that many critics of this point have not played the taskforces which include many unique maps.
Crafting
No comment, didn't play CO when it went live. I don't craft much in games regardless.
Character Creation
Double edged sword. Indeed CO has more options and the improved engine is clearly apparent, but whoever was lead art director needs to be fired or kicked in the nads hard. The character anatomy is terrible, and cartoony or not some of the models just look very, very wierd. Uncanny valley people, cartoony or realistic, one or the other not both.
Content
It's widely known that CO has a lack of content due to its newer release, so we'll skip over this.
PvP
CoH attempted to rebalance their PvP mechanics in spring 2009 and by most accounts failed terribly, but the funny thing is that it's still more balanced than what CO offers (going on second hand information of some CoH coalition folks that tried CO). Granted, I havn't tried CO PvP since September, but last I checked, if you have knockback powers, you win - hands down, no exceptions. First strike wins. Balanced? Right.
Conclusion
Newer game, newer implementation. To pseudo-quote Yahtzee, CO had a lot of great ideas balanced by terrible execution. If they get their act together over the months, it may be worth your attention, but as it stands, be prepared for a mixed bucket. I personally am skeptical simply because Cryptic is off focusing on Star Trek Online mere months after launching CO, so they at this point may or may not even bring developer attention back to the former game. If they don't, CO was clearly just a cash mule so they could fund their next project. If they do, all the best to them.
Remember, it has to be fun to be a game. Grinding is a bedroom activity, and the point is definitely not to do my wife as fast as possible.
My biggest problems with CO were environment, classes, travel powers, and lack of instances.
I hate to be stuck at lower levels in either desert or snow areas. I want a city! I know the city opens up later, but I feel it should have went the other way around. Snow and desert should have been extra areas.
As for classes, I know CO has none, but I think they should have them for those who want them. I play with my wife, and we'd rather play a scrapper or tank paired with healer or debuffer. CO just doesn't offer that like CoX.
The travel powers look great and feel fast, which CoX didn't feel as good as CO. BUT, with CO you get penalized for that awesome flight power, by land-to-air missles taking you out like you are a paper airplane. If you take Acrobatics, you get your butt handed to you by the endless mobs spread out everywhere. At least CoX had streets to run down the center of.
And for instances. I know the game seems like one big instance, and jumping between shards. This isn't anything new however. CoX had the same thing when launched, plus multiple servers. If Atlas was overcrowded, they had Atlas 2, 3, 4, etc. When I say lacks instances, I mean the missions. I hate how they have them in CO. Everyone else is doing the same thing, so you're left trying to grab the baddy before the other person. I like the old instance missions. They could have kept them, just made them more unique than CoX version.
First of all, comparing the combat system of WoW and Champions Online is ludicrous. Champions Online has a far more elegant system from what I can tell between those two. I do feel that CO and CoH/CoV are largely only superficially different. Aside from the grouping aspect, which I hate anyway, and the lack of costume pieces(I am sure Cryptic will add more as time goes on), I find them to be quite similar, having played both to some depth. Simply put, CO owes more to CoH than most people would like to admit.
This really wasn't a fair comparison. Honestly I liked CO better than I liked CoH because of the combat, but thats it. CO even with the combat just fails in comparison to CoH and I've never liked CoH and I did enjoy CO for about a month.
I don't even consider WoW a good comparison. CO is more of a console single player, but even then it fails in comparison to the popular single player Super Hero titles.
The only thing I think you could compare CO to and be fair would be STO. But then your basically comparing the same thing with slight differences. It would be like comparing yourself to a photo of yourself. Likely wearing different clothes and maybe look slightly different but it's still you lol.
TSk TSK
its PARAGON city, like you know the STUDIO that runs it PARAGON studios...
it's City of Heroes not Grand Theft Auto.
Liberty City indeed.
The control mechanisms in Champions online were designed for the console and have numerous flaws when played using keyboard and mouse. I reported the specific bugs many times, including one where the hotkey buttons are not mouse clickable while moving.
If I wanted to play a console game, I would buy a console. I game on a PC.
I switched back to CoH. The keyboard controls and GUI are much smoother and far less buggy.
Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do.
Benjamin Franklin
When NCsoft took over CoH the game really grew into the powerhouse we all know it as now. CoH vs. CO.. no competition.. CoH wins hands down.. sorry CO... 6 years of owing the genre, player created mods, 16 issues, not a fair competition.. CoH is the champ and will forever remain so... Cryptic is now focused on STO so I don't expect CO to stick around like CoH has and will continue.. sorry CO.. good luck to you on your future, but the king of the Superhero genre is still CoH.
Played both.. prefered CoH hands down. To each their own.
COH has always been soloable. Not sure how this guy got the impression that COH used to be forced grouping, but I played COH at launch and for a couple years after. I never had any issue if I wanted to solo, other then Hamidon and Task Forces.
I find it odd that the OP down plays the things COH does better making what seems to be excuses for CO. Then when he leans to CO he uses words like "hands down better". Seems a bit one sided. Almost like a promotion. I do know one thing. NCSOFT has maintained COX very nice. The graphics upgrades look sweet. I left COX for the same reason I will not bother with CO. Lack of decent PVP.
If COX let heroes and villions cross travel and have some open PVP I would still be subscribed.
All in all COX is one of the most solid MMOs that you can trust in it's future. COX has proved the MOST IMPORTANT THING in a MMO Longevity. COX has stood the test of time. Not many MMOs make it that long.
I was going to say , " what a fluff piece". But i will be kind and say that maybe you just really like CO.
Just about each point you try to say CO is better at i fully disagree. I have played both and own both games. I fully intend to go back to COH at some point for a month or 2, but i will never go back to CO.
Over the years i have spent 6-8 months of sub time in COH. I lasted less than 2 weeks in CO. Guess that is enough said.:)
To me it boils down to; CoH is a more traditional MMORPG, and CO is a hybrid console action game and MMO.
The lack of a roll to hit mechanic keeps CO from being a good MMORPG as there is no random chance involved, and the lack of ability to actually dodge attacks keeps it from being a good action game, and in the end it's an unbalanced button masher with a shiny cellophane wrapper.
Cryptic had some inovative ideas going in, but either ran out of time or creativity to make good on them.
DCUO may be better, but I wouldn't wager on it. It seems as if developers feel that the spandex crowd prefers their MMOs light on RPG and heavy on action.
I was just about to say this, looks like I have been beat.
Playing:WoW, GA
Played:WoW,WAR,AoC,EQ,CoH,GW,EVE,Aion
Want to play:SW:TOR
I also understand that Steve Long, creator of the Champions IP is not thrilled about how it's been changed in CO. I can't blame him either. As a long time PnP Champions gamer I won't play CO because of their treatment of the IP.
I thought CoH was a piece of garbage, CO seems to be nicer graphically and gameplay wise, it just needs a bit more content.
P.S.
Isn't Liberty City from Grand Theft Auto?
"The question that sometimes drives me hazy: Am I, or the others crazy?" - Albert Einstein
I'd have to disagree. I think CoX is the better of the two, especially in grouping dynamics. I have never played a game where grouping was just fun and enjoyable and easy to do, until AE that is. CO leaves a lot to be desired. I played for a month, and became bored out of my mind. There is nothing to do. Crafting is a joke. The game isn't immersive enough to RP. The SG system is a joke.
Little known fact: The Nemesis System was originally proposed by Matt "Positron" Miller for City of Heroes (though it had a different name.) The idea was copied by Cryptic when they made Champions Online.
All in all, CoH is a far more solid game, and a new expansion is coming out very soon.
I'd have to disagree. I think CoX is the better of the two, especially in grouping dynamics. I have never played a game where grouping was just fun and enjoyable and easy to do, until AE that is. CO leaves a lot to be desired. I played for a month, and became bored out of my mind. There is nothing to do. Crafting is a joke. The game isn't immersive enough to RP. The SG system is a joke.
Using the term "CoX" is silly.
Yeah, to the cash shop.
I have played both COH/COV from day one and I also played CO from day one. I stop playing COX around May of 2009 and most likely will stop playing CO for awhile to play DC univeres online. I love the hero MMO games but I think I would have to give the slight edge to COX. Now keep in mind that I really like both games but I'm not really feeling the art style that they went with for CO,now IDK if its just because I been playing COX for so long and got use to their art style or what but I just really like the look and feel of the toons on COX. Now when it comes to powers,travel powers, and powers customization I think CO is head and shoulders above COX.I guess I wish that COX had all of CO powers and travel powers or that CO had COX art style and feel.
Agreed, same here. I like the pace and the varying playstyles. Heck, I even like the class system. CO lacked that and never really felt complete without something like it.
I never played CoH but Champions Online is horrible once you leave the character creator.
These are two extremely different games, and people are going to like them or dislike them for different reasons. To me, CoX is more enjoyable, because I feel the progression works a bit better, and I enjoy how the powersets mesh better than in CO. I do agree that the article writer seems to prefer CO, and that's fine, he may have more of a WoW background, which CO more closely resembles than CoX. Anyway, good article in how it describes the differences and similarities between the two. Give them both a free trial though and see what you think before you buy, because they are very different in how they play.