And why is this? Because SE loves us, or because they want to keep us playing as long as possible, thus paying the monthly fee longer? SE does this stuff for profit. When you don't run out of shit to do, you're not cancelling your subscription either.
I know why they add 'free' content.
You implied that they won't do anything free of charge.
If they can add content without charging extra for it, then they can offer account services the same way.
Does any one really know how much it would cost them to transfer characters to different server? I hear a lot of assumptions, but nothing concrete.
Content updates are a part of the main service, which is why they don't charge for it. Optional services are just that. Unless you know how much these things would cost you as a company, you can't really say: "Oh, everything should be free but the expansions."
Plus, yes, they are out to make a profit. There is nothing wrong with that. The problem comes in when it's costing you money on top of the money you're paying for a subscription that would be required to continue play.
To be the best, you must help each other become the best. FFXI Character: Satimasu FFXI Server: Valefor FFXIV Character: Tamorae Fonteil
People just need to leave this thread alone, because everything in this thread is speculation and most likely its all wrong. Once we know all the facts (we really dont have any) then you can take your stand.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore) Now Playing: N/A Worst MMO: FFXIV Favorite MMO: FFXI
People just need to leave this thread alone, because everything in this thread is speculation and most likely its all wrong. Once we know all the facts (we really dont have any) then you can take your stand.
Todd is right, people need to leave this thread alone. Some people can't be reasoned with and we keep making speculations for a game we don't know much about. They might charge for server change they might not, hell we might not be able to do it til years later like in XI. We don't know what the micro transactions are til we actually play the game or SE tells us. If you are discouraged from playing a game because of misinterpreted news then you shouldn't even consider reading about a game until its damn near released.
Server transfers should never be free. If you find yourself constantly inneed of transfering servers you are pissing off too many people and/or are stupid. I've had it happen in WoW before (not to me directly) where I had 10+ friends on different servers, majority of my friends however were on Shadowmoon. Some people ended up transferring to the wrong server and had to pay another fee; others were smart and asked Blizzard to rework the transaction.
Regarding other types of microtransactions, I would not mind paying for
a. Pets
b. Costumes
c. Different mounts
And if there is a multiple enhance type system, I wouldn't mind paying for insurance tokens either. But then if that does get implemented, I'm sure all the poor bastards (ie. those who didn't graduate from school and are working @ McDonalds, or those who made horrible finiance choices in their life by not investing when they were 20) will start QQing.
Originally posted by Lienhart But then if that does get implemented, I'm sure all the poor bastards (ie. those who didn't graduate from school and are working @ McDonalds, or those who made horrible finiance choices in their life by not investing when they were 20) will start QQing.
I regularly spend $100 or more a month on gaming. It's not an issue of cost, but fairness for some of us.
I think people should be distiguished in a game by their achievements, not their RL income. If I see someone with a very cool mount or weapon, I want to find out that he got it by beating some uber boss or an epic quest chain - not that he spent $20 in a cash shop.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
people need to leave this thread alone. Some people can't be reasoned with and we keep making speculations for a game we don't know much about. They might charge for server change they might not, hell we might not be able to do it til years later like in XI. We don't know what the micro transactions are til we actually play the game or SE tells us. If you are discouraged from playing a game because of misinterpreted news then you shouldn't even consider reading about a game until its damn near released.
That really doesn't explain why you are both reading and posting in a forum for a game so far from release.
Wild speculation is a fun and interesting aspect of gaming fora.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
people need to leave this thread alone. Some people can't be reasoned with and we keep making speculations for a game we don't know much about. They might charge for server change they might not, hell we might not be able to do it til years later like in XI. We don't know what the micro transactions are til we actually play the game or SE tells us. If you are discouraged from playing a game because of misinterpreted news then you shouldn't even consider reading about a game until its damn near released.
That really doesn't explain why you are both reading and posting in a forum for a game so far from release.
Wild speculation is a fun and interesting aspect of gaming fora.
Yes, wild speculaiton is a fun and interesting aspect but its stop being fun when someone thinks they are %100 right on a idea of a game that isn't released. Its either their idea or nothing. Some people insists that micro transactions means a cash shop or when someone insists server transfer should be free without reasonable concept of why it should be free over a fee.
Originally posted by Lienhart But then if that does get implemented, I'm sure all the poor bastards (ie. those who didn't graduate from school and are working @ McDonalds, or those who made horrible finiance choices in their life by not investing when they were 20) will start QQing.
I regularly spend $100 or more a month on gaming. It's not an issue of cost, but fairness for some of us.
I think people should be distiguished in a game by their achievements, not their RL income. If I see someone with a very cool mount or weapon, I want to find out that he got it by beating some uber boss or an epic quest chain - not that he spent $20 in a cash shop.
I know what you mean, but certain games *COUGH* LINEAGE 2 could have used a cashshop for insurance scrolls.
Buying equipment via money is something I hate, however, enhancing/enchanting/upgrading equipment via money I don't mind. Beats me blowing up a bunch of +16 weapons like I did in L2 lol
In an MMO world you can't really have an item mall that is filled with things that are game changers. If you can buy the best sword in the game from a mall there is no (maybe less) challenge in the game and it isn't fair to people who don't have mommy's credit card ready to buy anything they want. If it is things that do not matter to the grand scheme of the game, that is cool. For instance those two WoW pets they introduced a little while back. Possessing those pets changes nothing other than the aesthetics of the character while the mob is out. If buying it gave you bonus exp or something like that it would be very wrong.
I was of the same mindset before playing an item mall based game, but now not so much. To me, it's no more fair that the basement-dwelling no-life can advance in a P2P game faster than those of us with a full-time job and RL time sinks. So because I succeed at life I have to be penalized in the game and the guy who fails at life is a game-god? Item malls swing the pendulum back the other way so the guy making the money can afford to buy things that advance him faster. He's rewarded in-game for being a success in life. It actually levels the playing field if you think about it, whereas with a strictly P2P game, it's always lopsided... either you devote your life to the game or you're always behind. In fact, there are many things I simply cannot achieve in some P2P MMO games, because I do have a life. In the game I'm playing now, the casual players get to keep up with the hardcore players and they all get to play together. I don't see anything at all wrong with that. It actually makes more sense to me.
... are you freaking serious?
You're being "penalized in a game for being a success at life" because people with more time to play than you have - whatever their reasons... (your *obnoxiously* ignorant stereotyping notwithstanding) make more progress?
Seriously? You seriously think that way?
Wow.
Just... wow.
Get over yourself, guy. You're really not that important.
I believe the whole ego-centric "I'm more important than anyone else" mindset running rampant in the genre has just hit a new level of absurdity right in this very thread. You saw it here, folks.
Unbelievable.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
You're being "penalized in a game for being a success at life" because people with more time to play than you have - whatever their reasons... (your *obnoxiously* ignorant stereotyping notwithstanding)? Seriously? You seriously think that way?
Wow. Just... wow.
Get over yourself, guy. You're really not that important. I believe the whole ego-centric "I'm more important than anyone else" mindset running rampant in the genre has just hit a new level of absurdity right in this very thread. You saw it here, folks. Unbelievable.
It's not the first time I have seen that argument made to justify cash shops. I am sorry to say.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Server transfers should never be free. If you find yourself constantly inneed of transfering servers you are pissing off too many people and/or are stupid. I've had it happen in WoW before (not to me directly) where I had 10+ friends on different servers, majority of my friends however were on Shadowmoon. Some people ended up transferring to the wrong server and had to pay another fee; others were smart and asked Blizzard to rework the transaction.
Regarding other types of microtransactions, I would not mind paying for
a. Pets
b. Costumes
c. Different mounts
And if there is a multiple enhance type system, I wouldn't mind paying for insurance tokens either. But then if that does get implemented, I'm sure all the poor bastards (ie. those who didn't graduate from school and are working @ McDonalds, or those who made horrible finiance choices in their life by not investing when they were 20) will start QQing.
You bet, those losers cant hold a candle to the highly intelligent financial wizards playing WOW.
You're being "penalized in a game for being a success at life" because people with more time to play than you have - whatever their reasons... (your *obnoxiously* ignorant stereotyping notwithstanding)? Seriously? You seriously think that way?
Wow. Just... wow.
Get over yourself, guy. You're really not that important. I believe the whole ego-centric "I'm more important than anyone else" mindset running rampant in the genre has just hit a new level of absurdity right in this very thread. You saw it here, folks. Unbelievable.
It's not the first time I have seen that argument made to justify cash shops. I am sorry to say.
Nor I... but it's certainly the most shamelessly obnoxious I've seen.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
You're being "penalized in a game for being a success at life" because people with more time to play than you have - whatever their reasons... (your *obnoxiously* ignorant stereotyping notwithstanding)? Seriously? You seriously think that way?
Wow. Just... wow.
Get over yourself, guy. You're really not that important. I believe the whole ego-centric "I'm more important than anyone else" mindset running rampant in the genre has just hit a new level of absurdity right in this very thread. You saw it here, folks. Unbelievable.
It's not the first time I have seen that argument made to justify cash shops. I am sorry to say.
Nor I... but it's certainly the most shamelessly obnoxious I've seen.
Obnoxious or not, you are needlessly doing the exact same thing here. Just because you do not agree with someone's pov, do you really have to 'show off' your ego-tripping for the righteous and just (in you mind anyways).
If he sees this as an equalizer, so be it. You're line "I'm more important than anyone else" can also be used to the elitists that play so much and are against RMTs.
How about being constructive in your comments instead of condescendingly disagree? Or is it too much to ask?
In an MMO world you can't really have an item mall that is filled with things that are game changers. If you can buy the best sword in the game from a mall there is no (maybe less) challenge in the game and it isn't fair to people who don't have mommy's credit card ready to buy anything they want. If it is things that do not matter to the grand scheme of the game, that is cool. For instance those two WoW pets they introduced a little while back. Possessing those pets changes nothing other than the aesthetics of the character while the mob is out. If buying it gave you bonus exp or something like that it would be very wrong.
I was of the same mindset before playing an item mall based game, but now not so much. To me, it's no more fair that the basement-dwelling no-life can advance in a P2P game faster than those of us with a full-time job and RL time sinks. So because I succeed at life I have to be penalized in the game and the guy who fails at life is a game-god? Item malls swing the pendulum back the other way so the guy making the money can afford to buy things that advance him faster. He's rewarded in-game for being a success in life. It actually levels the playing field if you think about it, whereas with a strictly P2P game, it's always lopsided... either you devote your life to the game or you're always behind. In fact, there are many things I simply cannot achieve in some P2P MMO games, because I do have a life. In the game I'm playing now, the casual players get to keep up with the hardcore players and they all get to play together. I don't see anything at all wrong with that. It actually makes more sense to me.
... are you freaking serious?
You're being "penalized in a game for being a success at life" because people with more time to play than you have - whatever their reasons... (your *obnoxiously* ignorant stereotyping notwithstanding) make more progress?
Seriously? You seriously think that way?
Wow.
Just... wow.
Get over yourself, guy. You're really not that important.
I believe the whole ego-centric "I'm more important than anyone else" mindset running rampant in the genre has just hit a new level of absurdity right in this very thread. You saw it here, folks.
Unbelievable.
Give me a break with the name calling... are YOU serious? "Oh he doesn't have the same opinion I do, he must be crazy"... you're the one that needs to get over yourself.
And I take it you're one of the rare few who didn't buy mules in FFXI right?
In an MMO world you can't really have an item mall that is filled with things that are game changers. If you can buy the best sword in the game from a mall there is no (maybe less) challenge in the game and it isn't fair to people who don't have mommy's credit card ready to buy anything they want. If it is things that do not matter to the grand scheme of the game, that is cool. For instance those two WoW pets they introduced a little while back. Possessing those pets changes nothing other than the aesthetics of the character while the mob is out. If buying it gave you bonus exp or something like that it would be very wrong.
I was of the same mindset before playing an item mall based game, but now not so much. To me, it's no more fair that the basement-dwelling no-life can advance in a P2P game faster than those of us with a full-time job and RL time sinks. So because I succeed at life I have to be penalized in the game and the guy who fails at life is a game-god? Item malls swing the pendulum back the other way so the guy making the money can afford to buy things that advance him faster. He's rewarded in-game for being a success in life. It actually levels the playing field if you think about it, whereas with a strictly P2P game, it's always lopsided... either you devote your life to the game or you're always behind. In fact, there are many things I simply cannot achieve in some P2P MMO games, because I do have a life. In the game I'm playing now, the casual players get to keep up with the hardcore players and they all get to play together. I don't see anything at all wrong with that. It actually makes more sense to me.
... are you freaking serious?
You're being "penalized in a game for being a success at life" because people with more time to play than you have - whatever their reasons... (your *obnoxiously* ignorant stereotyping notwithstanding) make more progress?
Seriously? You seriously think that way?
Wow.
Just... wow.
Get over yourself, guy. You're really not that important.
I believe the whole ego-centric "I'm more important than anyone else" mindset running rampant in the genre has just hit a new level of absurdity right in this very thread. You saw it here, folks.
Unbelievable.
Give me a break with the name calling... are YOU serious? "Oh he doesn't have the same opinion I do, he must be crazy"... you're the one that needs to get over yourself.
And I take it you're one of the rare few who didn't buy mules in FFXI right?
Mules in FFXI do not help players advance in any way shape or form. All cash shops items ruins games. Cash shops are designed to make you buy items, and they give those players advantages. They have to be otherwise the devs would go broke. I am 99.9% sure that FFXIV will not have cash shop items, or for that fact even vanity items.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore) Now Playing: N/A Worst MMO: FFXIV Favorite MMO: FFXI
Whenever I hear cash shop I think of the old magic the gathering card games. I never played them because it always seemed to me that it was just a racket to allow them to basically print money. A little ink and some paper, tell players its a power card and they have to buy it. This is the same thing. Sell a sword today, then 3 months later introduce a new virtual sword that has an extra +1 str and you get more income. Hopefully FF isnt like that.
The comparison of people with too much money to people with too much time is flawed. It assumes that the people that earned the sword through playing the game did it purely through time alone and no skill. That supposes that the game is worthless as a game and you can get anything just by logging in for enough hours.
The " I buy ingame crap for real money cause I dont have the time to play the game" excuse is pathetic. If you dont have time to actually play the game, dont play the game. Using this excuse is just a way of justifying a shortcut/cheat. Im not sure what is the funniest, the cheating or the attempts at justification.
You come on here and toot your own horn while whining at the same time about "being punished for being a success in real life". Meanwhile, you're spewing baseless generalizations about innumerable others, whose circumstances you couldn't possibly know, categorizing them as "failures at life" because they have more time to play than youdo .
I guess it never occurred to you that some of those people might be more successful than you, and make enough money to sit home and play more than you? I guess the myriad other circumstances that could lead to someone having more time to play (outside of "living in their parents' basement") hasn't occurred to you?
Oh, no... not possible. They have more time to play, so they must be "failures at life", unlike you, who are a "success at life". Give me a freaking break.
Sorry to burst yours and a previous posters' bubbles. I am not name-calling. I'm not being elitist myself. I'm calling someone out on an obnoxiously narrow-minded point-of-view shamelessly being demonstrating for all to see.
Go tell someone who has 5 days a week to play golf that he's a "failure at life" because he has more time to play and is, hence, a better player than someone with less time to play. Apply that to any activity where time and practice = progress and/or improvement. Tell those farther along or better than you that "they're failures because they have more time than you do". See how receptive people are to that philosophy.
Some people have more time to play a game than others. People who have more time to play will tend to make more progress than those with less time. It applies to just about any activity. That's not "unfair". It's called real life. Welcome to it.
Don't get me wrong, if you're truly doing well in real life then hey... that's awesome and may it continue. But to come here, deeming people you don't know "failures in life" because they have more time to play a game than you or at least make more progress than you is just sad.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Any of you know the quote, "Money/greed makes the world go round." ...? It really depends on how SE takes it. It could be just for the trivial things like server transfers, extra characters after the set limit, mini expansions etc... Or, it could be full blown cash shops (Which, btw, is HIGHLY unlikely).
You all realize even when this is cleared up, you're all going to look like fools, right? Calm the sh|t down so we can come back here and discuss it when new info arises. God. This is quickly becoming the piss hole of the site.
Originally posted by grandpagamer
The " I buy ingame crap for real money cause I dont have the time to play the game" excuse is pathetic. If you dont have time to actually play the game, dont play the game. Using this excuse is just a way of justifying a shortcut/cheat. Im not sure what is the funniest, the cheating or the attempts at justification.
First question you need to ask. What is playing a MMO?
A hobby. And what do people do for their hobbies?
Spend time AND money on it. Notice the caps and.
We all play MMOs to gratify ourselves. You have no authority to decide how the entire genre should be run. If you're so adamant about your views, and pass them off as the only true one, you're pretty pathetic yourself. Unless or until you actually get directly involved with a MMO project, you're opinion is worth dirt.
None of you seem to have noticed how the genre has changed in terms of microtransactions. Bit by bit, all MMOs are adding some form of microtransactions into their game. If you can't see it, you're freaking blind. Why do you suppose preorders for collectors editions go so fast for every new MMO now? Because they come with a ton of freaking extras, that even include some ingame bonuses that are hard to pass up. Google 'em. They're there.
You come on here and toot your own horn while whining at the same time about "being punished for being a success in real life". Meanwhile, you're spewing baseless generalizations about innumerable others, whose circumstances you couldn't possibly know, categorizing them as "failures at life" because they have more time to play than youdo .
I guess it never occurred to you that some of those people might be more successful than you, and make enough money to sit home and play more than you? I guess the myriad other circumstances that could lead to someone having more time to play (outside of "living in their parents' basement") hasn't occurred to you?
Oh, no... not possible. They have more time to play, so they must be "failures at life", unlike you, who are a "success at life". Give me a freaking break.
Sorry to burst yours and a previous posters' bubbles. I am not name-calling. I'm not being elitist myself. I'm calling someone out on an obnoxiously narrow-minded point-of-view shamelessly being demonstrating for all to see.
Go tell someone who has 5 days a week to play golf that he's a "failure at life" because he has more time to play and is, hence, a better player than someone with less time to play. Apply that to any activity where time and practice = progress and/or improvement. Tell those farther along or better than you that "they're failures because they have more time than you do". See how receptive people are to that philosophy.
Some people have more time to play a game than others. People who have more time to play will tend to make more progress than those with less time. It applies to just about any activity. That's not "unfair". It's called real life. Welcome to it.
Don't get me wrong, if you're truly doing well in real life then hey... that's awesome and may it continue. But to come here, deeming people you don't know "failures in life" because they have more time to play a game than you or at least make more progress than you is just sad.
Mules in FFXI do not help players advance in any way shape or form.
You couldn't be more wrong. I easily earned triple (and that's a conservative estimate) the income from having extra mules in FFXI as I would have had I only paid for 1 character. The ramifications of the additional Auction House slots, not to mention having access to multiple different AH's simultaneously are impossible to deny. That extra income afforded me better gear upgrades which in turn allowed me to kill things quicker giving me a better XP rate. All for the low, low transaction fee of $3 more per month. Yeah that's not helping me in any way, shape, or form.... riiiiight.
So honestly for those of you against micro transactions and preaching this crap about not wanting to buy things that affect game play, yet bought extra mules in FFXI, take a look in the mirror cause that's about as hypocritical as it gets.
It's not about wanting to buy your way to the top, it's about being able to play the freaking game. Let me put it this way, when I played WoW, I advanced as much as I could on my own given my schedule. Eventually I got to the point where if I wanted to see any more of the content I'd have to join a raiding guild and play more than I really had time for. I did just that but it still wasn't enough. Sure enough the hardcore players out geared those of us who were casuals and they could only take so many charity runs before we fell by the wayside. Nothing against them, they were ready for higher content and us casuals weren't... I can't blame them for wanting to experience it. So eventually I just became a social member of the guild and it was either guild-hop and go through the same crap all over again or quit. I did the latter.
I had a very similar experience in FFXI as did many others who said they just couldn't keep playing because of the time you had to devote to the game, yet they wish they could have. Many of them never got the opportunity to hit level 75 and even see the end-game. How sad is that?
Now compare that to the item shop game I'm playing now. We still have the hardcore players in our guild who seem to never log off and they literally play without spending a penny. Those of us in the guild who can't put in that much play time buy items on the cash shop to help us advance faster (they don't sell straight gear on the cash shop... you have to earn that). I don't have to worry about not getting to see half of the end-game because I can't play 6+ hours a night. No one is all bent out of shape because I pay money to keep up and they just play harder. We just have a blast getting to play the game together, experiencing exactly the same content, and nobody gets left behind. In this game, I'm given a choice that best suits me and my budget vs. play time, whereas in WoW I had no legitimate options, unless you consider socializing vs. quitting "options".
There are literally millions of people playing item mall MMO's today, so who are you to say that your way is right and their way is wrong?
There are literally millions of people playing item mall MMO's today, so who are you to say that your way is right and their way is wrong?
Intelligence and fairness are not massively multiplayer traits. They are minority traits. Millions of people can easily be very wrong about very important things. Take a look at history.
I am curious as to why you didn't just form your own casual raiding guild, rather than quit.
In any case, as someone else said - buying your advancement IS cheating. It doesn't change it if the company lets you cheat for money.
The whole frikkin' world is run by money. Is it so much to ask that RL wealth not be a factor in a game? I don't think it is.
We can't make this world completely fair - but we should do our best in that goal.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
There are literally millions of people playing item mall MMO's today, so who are you to say that your way is right and their way is wrong?
Intelligence and fairness are not massively multiplayer traits. They are minority traits. Millions of people can easily be very wrong about very important things. Take a look at history.
I am curious as to why you didn't just form your own casual raiding guild, rather than quit.
I didn't form my own guild in WoW because to be fair to the guild and to do it right you really need someone who can be online more than I had time for. Nothing worse than having a guild with an absent leader. With my schedule, I often go weeks at a time without even logging in.
Originally posted by MMO_Doubter
In any case, as someone else said - buying your advancement IS cheating. It doesn't change it if the company lets you cheat for money.
The whole frikkin' world is run by money. Is it so much to ask that RL wealth not be a factor in a game? I don't think it is.
We can't make this world completely fair - but we should do our best in that goal.
So what you're saying is everyone who bought extra characters as mules in FFXI is a cheater.
Comments
I know why they add 'free' content.
You implied that they won't do anything free of charge.
If they can add content without charging extra for it, then they can offer account services the same way.
Does any one really know how much it would cost them to transfer characters to different server? I hear a lot of assumptions, but nothing concrete.
Content updates are a part of the main service, which is why they don't charge for it. Optional services are just that. Unless you know how much these things would cost you as a company, you can't really say: "Oh, everything should be free but the expansions."
Plus, yes, they are out to make a profit. There is nothing wrong with that. The problem comes in when it's costing you money on top of the money you're paying for a subscription that would be required to continue play.
To be the best, you must help each other become the best.
FFXI Character: Satimasu
FFXI Server: Valefor
FFXIV Character: Tamorae Fonteil
People just need to leave this thread alone, because everything in this thread is speculation and most likely its all wrong. Once we know all the facts (we really dont have any) then you can take your stand.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore)
Now Playing: N/A
Worst MMO: FFXIV
Favorite MMO: FFXI
Todd is right, people need to leave this thread alone. Some people can't be reasoned with and we keep making speculations for a game we don't know much about. They might charge for server change they might not, hell we might not be able to do it til years later like in XI. We don't know what the micro transactions are til we actually play the game or SE tells us. If you are discouraged from playing a game because of misinterpreted news then you shouldn't even consider reading about a game until its damn near released.
Server transfers should never be free. If you find yourself constantly inneed of transfering servers you are pissing off too many people and/or are stupid. I've had it happen in WoW before (not to me directly) where I had 10+ friends on different servers, majority of my friends however were on Shadowmoon. Some people ended up transferring to the wrong server and had to pay another fee; others were smart and asked Blizzard to rework the transaction.
Regarding other types of microtransactions, I would not mind paying for
a. Pets
b. Costumes
c. Different mounts
And if there is a multiple enhance type system, I wouldn't mind paying for insurance tokens either. But then if that does get implemented, I'm sure all the poor bastards (ie. those who didn't graduate from school and are working @ McDonalds, or those who made horrible finiance choices in their life by not investing when they were 20) will start QQing.
I regularly spend $100 or more a month on gaming. It's not an issue of cost, but fairness for some of us.
I think people should be distiguished in a game by their achievements, not their RL income. If I see someone with a very cool mount or weapon, I want to find out that he got it by beating some uber boss or an epic quest chain - not that he spent $20 in a cash shop.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
That really doesn't explain why you are both reading and posting in a forum for a game so far from release.
Wild speculation is a fun and interesting aspect of gaming fora.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
That really doesn't explain why you are both reading and posting in a forum for a game so far from release.
Wild speculation is a fun and interesting aspect of gaming fora.
Yes, wild speculaiton is a fun and interesting aspect but its stop being fun when someone thinks they are %100 right on a idea of a game that isn't released. Its either their idea or nothing. Some people insists that micro transactions means a cash shop or when someone insists server transfer should be free without reasonable concept of why it should be free over a fee.
I regularly spend $100 or more a month on gaming. It's not an issue of cost, but fairness for some of us.
I think people should be distiguished in a game by their achievements, not their RL income. If I see someone with a very cool mount or weapon, I want to find out that he got it by beating some uber boss or an epic quest chain - not that he spent $20 in a cash shop.
I know what you mean, but certain games *COUGH* LINEAGE 2 could have used a cashshop for insurance scrolls.
Buying equipment via money is something I hate, however, enhancing/enchanting/upgrading equipment via money I don't mind. Beats me blowing up a bunch of +16 weapons like I did in L2 lol
I was of the same mindset before playing an item mall based game, but now not so much. To me, it's no more fair that the basement-dwelling no-life can advance in a P2P game faster than those of us with a full-time job and RL time sinks. So because I succeed at life I have to be penalized in the game and the guy who fails at life is a game-god? Item malls swing the pendulum back the other way so the guy making the money can afford to buy things that advance him faster. He's rewarded in-game for being a success in life. It actually levels the playing field if you think about it, whereas with a strictly P2P game, it's always lopsided... either you devote your life to the game or you're always behind. In fact, there are many things I simply cannot achieve in some P2P MMO games, because I do have a life. In the game I'm playing now, the casual players get to keep up with the hardcore players and they all get to play together. I don't see anything at all wrong with that. It actually makes more sense to me.
... are you freaking serious?
You're being "penalized in a game for being a success at life" because people with more time to play than you have - whatever their reasons... (your *obnoxiously* ignorant stereotyping notwithstanding) make more progress?
Seriously? You seriously think that way?
Wow.
Just... wow.
Get over yourself, guy. You're really not that important.
I believe the whole ego-centric "I'm more important than anyone else" mindset running rampant in the genre has just hit a new level of absurdity right in this very thread. You saw it here, folks.
Unbelievable.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
It's not the first time I have seen that argument made to justify cash shops. I am sorry to say.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
You bet, those losers cant hold a candle to the highly intelligent financial wizards playing WOW.
It's not the first time I have seen that argument made to justify cash shops. I am sorry to say.
Nor I... but it's certainly the most shamelessly obnoxious I've seen.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
It's not the first time I have seen that argument made to justify cash shops. I am sorry to say.
Nor I... but it's certainly the most shamelessly obnoxious I've seen.
Obnoxious or not, you are needlessly doing the exact same thing here. Just because you do not agree with someone's pov, do you really have to 'show off' your ego-tripping for the righteous and just (in you mind anyways).
If he sees this as an equalizer, so be it. You're line "I'm more important than anyone else" can also be used to the elitists that play so much and are against RMTs.
How about being constructive in your comments instead of condescendingly disagree? Or is it too much to ask?
I was of the same mindset before playing an item mall based game, but now not so much. To me, it's no more fair that the basement-dwelling no-life can advance in a P2P game faster than those of us with a full-time job and RL time sinks. So because I succeed at life I have to be penalized in the game and the guy who fails at life is a game-god? Item malls swing the pendulum back the other way so the guy making the money can afford to buy things that advance him faster. He's rewarded in-game for being a success in life. It actually levels the playing field if you think about it, whereas with a strictly P2P game, it's always lopsided... either you devote your life to the game or you're always behind. In fact, there are many things I simply cannot achieve in some P2P MMO games, because I do have a life. In the game I'm playing now, the casual players get to keep up with the hardcore players and they all get to play together. I don't see anything at all wrong with that. It actually makes more sense to me.
... are you freaking serious?
You're being "penalized in a game for being a success at life" because people with more time to play than you have - whatever their reasons... (your *obnoxiously* ignorant stereotyping notwithstanding) make more progress?
Seriously? You seriously think that way?
Wow.
Just... wow.
Get over yourself, guy. You're really not that important.
I believe the whole ego-centric "I'm more important than anyone else" mindset running rampant in the genre has just hit a new level of absurdity right in this very thread. You saw it here, folks.
Unbelievable.
Give me a break with the name calling... are YOU serious? "Oh he doesn't have the same opinion I do, he must be crazy"... you're the one that needs to get over yourself.
And I take it you're one of the rare few who didn't buy mules in FFXI right?
I was of the same mindset before playing an item mall based game, but now not so much. To me, it's no more fair that the basement-dwelling no-life can advance in a P2P game faster than those of us with a full-time job and RL time sinks. So because I succeed at life I have to be penalized in the game and the guy who fails at life is a game-god? Item malls swing the pendulum back the other way so the guy making the money can afford to buy things that advance him faster. He's rewarded in-game for being a success in life. It actually levels the playing field if you think about it, whereas with a strictly P2P game, it's always lopsided... either you devote your life to the game or you're always behind. In fact, there are many things I simply cannot achieve in some P2P MMO games, because I do have a life. In the game I'm playing now, the casual players get to keep up with the hardcore players and they all get to play together. I don't see anything at all wrong with that. It actually makes more sense to me.
... are you freaking serious?
You're being "penalized in a game for being a success at life" because people with more time to play than you have - whatever their reasons... (your *obnoxiously* ignorant stereotyping notwithstanding) make more progress?
Seriously? You seriously think that way?
Wow.
Just... wow.
Get over yourself, guy. You're really not that important.
I believe the whole ego-centric "I'm more important than anyone else" mindset running rampant in the genre has just hit a new level of absurdity right in this very thread. You saw it here, folks.
Unbelievable.
Give me a break with the name calling... are YOU serious? "Oh he doesn't have the same opinion I do, he must be crazy"... you're the one that needs to get over yourself.
And I take it you're one of the rare few who didn't buy mules in FFXI right?
Mules in FFXI do not help players advance in any way shape or form. All cash shops items ruins games. Cash shops are designed to make you buy items, and they give those players advantages. They have to be otherwise the devs would go broke. I am 99.9% sure that FFXIV will not have cash shop items, or for that fact even vanity items.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore)
Now Playing: N/A
Worst MMO: FFXIV
Favorite MMO: FFXI
Whenever I hear cash shop I think of the old magic the gathering card games. I never played them because it always seemed to me that it was just a racket to allow them to basically print money. A little ink and some paper, tell players its a power card and they have to buy it. This is the same thing. Sell a sword today, then 3 months later introduce a new virtual sword that has an extra +1 str and you get more income. Hopefully FF isnt like that.
The comparison of people with too much money to people with too much time is flawed. It assumes that the people that earned the sword through playing the game did it purely through time alone and no skill. That supposes that the game is worthless as a game and you can get anything just by logging in for enough hours.
The " I buy ingame crap for real money cause I dont have the time to play the game" excuse is pathetic. If you dont have time to actually play the game, dont play the game. Using this excuse is just a way of justifying a shortcut/cheat. Im not sure what is the funniest, the cheating or the attempts at justification.
...Am I in some twilight zone?
You come on here and toot your own horn while whining at the same time about "being punished for being a success in real life". Meanwhile, you're spewing baseless generalizations about innumerable others, whose circumstances you couldn't possibly know, categorizing them as "failures at life" because they have more time to play than youdo .
I guess it never occurred to you that some of those people might be more successful than you, and make enough money to sit home and play more than you? I guess the myriad other circumstances that could lead to someone having more time to play (outside of "living in their parents' basement") hasn't occurred to you?
Oh, no... not possible. They have more time to play, so they must be "failures at life", unlike you, who are a "success at life". Give me a freaking break.
Sorry to burst yours and a previous posters' bubbles. I am not name-calling. I'm not being elitist myself. I'm calling someone out on an obnoxiously narrow-minded point-of-view shamelessly being demonstrating for all to see.
Go tell someone who has 5 days a week to play golf that he's a "failure at life" because he has more time to play and is, hence, a better player than someone with less time to play. Apply that to any activity where time and practice = progress and/or improvement. Tell those farther along or better than you that "they're failures because they have more time than you do". See how receptive people are to that philosophy.
Some people have more time to play a game than others. People who have more time to play will tend to make more progress than those with less time. It applies to just about any activity. That's not "unfair". It's called real life. Welcome to it.
Don't get me wrong, if you're truly doing well in real life then hey... that's awesome and may it continue. But to come here, deeming people you don't know "failures in life" because they have more time to play a game than you or at least make more progress than you is just sad.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Wow, things have gotten out of hand pretty quick.
Any of you know the quote, "Money/greed makes the world go round." ...? It really depends on how SE takes it. It could be just for the trivial things like server transfers, extra characters after the set limit, mini expansions etc... Or, it could be full blown cash shops (Which, btw, is HIGHLY unlikely).
You all realize even when this is cleared up, you're all going to look like fools, right? Calm the sh|t down so we can come back here and discuss it when new info arises. God. This is quickly becoming the piss hole of the site.
Originally posted by grandpagamer
The " I buy ingame crap for real money cause I dont have the time to play the game" excuse is pathetic. If you dont have time to actually play the game, dont play the game. Using this excuse is just a way of justifying a shortcut/cheat. Im not sure what is the funniest, the cheating or the attempts at justification.
First question you need to ask. What is playing a MMO?
A hobby. And what do people do for their hobbies?
Spend time AND money on it. Notice the caps and.
We all play MMOs to gratify ourselves. You have no authority to decide how the entire genre should be run. If you're so adamant about your views, and pass them off as the only true one, you're pretty pathetic yourself. Unless or until you actually get directly involved with a MMO project, you're opinion is worth dirt.
None of you seem to have noticed how the genre has changed in terms of microtransactions. Bit by bit, all MMOs are adding some form of microtransactions into their game. If you can't see it, you're freaking blind. Why do you suppose preorders for collectors editions go so fast for every new MMO now? Because they come with a ton of freaking extras, that even include some ingame bonuses that are hard to pass up. Google 'em. They're there.
Amen.
You couldn't be more wrong. I easily earned triple (and that's a conservative estimate) the income from having extra mules in FFXI as I would have had I only paid for 1 character. The ramifications of the additional Auction House slots, not to mention having access to multiple different AH's simultaneously are impossible to deny. That extra income afforded me better gear upgrades which in turn allowed me to kill things quicker giving me a better XP rate. All for the low, low transaction fee of $3 more per month. Yeah that's not helping me in any way, shape, or form.... riiiiight.
So honestly for those of you against micro transactions and preaching this crap about not wanting to buy things that affect game play, yet bought extra mules in FFXI, take a look in the mirror cause that's about as hypocritical as it gets.
It's not about wanting to buy your way to the top, it's about being able to play the freaking game. Let me put it this way, when I played WoW, I advanced as much as I could on my own given my schedule. Eventually I got to the point where if I wanted to see any more of the content I'd have to join a raiding guild and play more than I really had time for. I did just that but it still wasn't enough. Sure enough the hardcore players out geared those of us who were casuals and they could only take so many charity runs before we fell by the wayside. Nothing against them, they were ready for higher content and us casuals weren't... I can't blame them for wanting to experience it. So eventually I just became a social member of the guild and it was either guild-hop and go through the same crap all over again or quit. I did the latter.
I had a very similar experience in FFXI as did many others who said they just couldn't keep playing because of the time you had to devote to the game, yet they wish they could have. Many of them never got the opportunity to hit level 75 and even see the end-game. How sad is that?
Now compare that to the item shop game I'm playing now. We still have the hardcore players in our guild who seem to never log off and they literally play without spending a penny. Those of us in the guild who can't put in that much play time buy items on the cash shop to help us advance faster (they don't sell straight gear on the cash shop... you have to earn that). I don't have to worry about not getting to see half of the end-game because I can't play 6+ hours a night. No one is all bent out of shape because I pay money to keep up and they just play harder. We just have a blast getting to play the game together, experiencing exactly the same content, and nobody gets left behind. In this game, I'm given a choice that best suits me and my budget vs. play time, whereas in WoW I had no legitimate options, unless you consider socializing vs. quitting "options".
There are literally millions of people playing item mall MMO's today, so who are you to say that your way is right and their way is wrong?
There are literally millions of people playing item mall MMO's today, so who are you to say that your way is right and their way is wrong?
Intelligence and fairness are not massively multiplayer traits. They are minority traits. Millions of people can easily be very wrong about very important things. Take a look at history.
I am curious as to why you didn't just form your own casual raiding guild, rather than quit.
In any case, as someone else said - buying your advancement IS cheating. It doesn't change it if the company lets you cheat for money.
The whole frikkin' world is run by money. Is it so much to ask that RL wealth not be a factor in a game? I don't think it is.
We can't make this world completely fair - but we should do our best in that goal.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
I didn't form my own guild in WoW because to be fair to the guild and to do it right you really need someone who can be online more than I had time for. Nothing worse than having a guild with an absent leader. With my schedule, I often go weeks at a time without even logging in.
So what you're saying is everyone who bought extra characters as mules in FFXI is a cheater.
I never played the game, but yes.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2