Star Trek has been a second-string IP since Star Wars hit the screen, though I've enjoyed the TNG, DS9, and Voyager series. CBS seems bent on burying it for good with the recent additions to the franchise - the Enterprise series, Abram's "Star Trek: The Abomination", and now the whoring of Roddenberry's idealistic future to Cryptic for a MMO. From this pattern, I'm beginning to believe that CBS plans to drain this cash cow dry and leave nothing but bones behind. Pity.
I agree with you 100%. It's a disposable IP to them, worth whatever money it makes with as little effort as possible, and then it'll sit on the shelves. What I really hope is that someone else, someday, will buy the IP from CBS, and actually care about it. CBS might sell it for cheap after they ruin Star Trek XII and run the MMO into the ground.
The main problem with Star Trek, whether it be the movies, TV shows, books or video games has been and is now the owner of the IP, CBS Paramount.
And I also agree with Kyleran, in that I fully believe a game that the OP describes is possible. The problem is that the IP is owned by CBS/Paramount, given to Atari, and thrown to Cryptic all of which not only do not have the creative and technical talent for making this possible, but are unwilling to invest the funds to do so.
Until Star Trek is in the hands of a competent owner, I'm afraid the IP is going to continue to suffer.
I have to agree with most of what i have read here. I have been a Trek fan since TNG and have loved every series since. The movies have been good but nothing as complex and in depth as the series'. i am however very upset at the amount this game lacks. When i first heard about it coming out I too was very excited and i followed all the dev changes and transfers and got more and more worried about its release being worth anything or even happening at all. This mess they call an mmo is a disgrace to the franchise and true fans are justified in being upset about this. The series them self took a turn to violence and action but to think that this was the best they could come up with for an mmo makes me wonder how hard this is to do. No exploration and diplomacy just makes this thing bland and lifeless. Sorry Cryptic, but this game really blows.
I didn't see this thread before this post of yours:
"Quote" "Originally posted by Akimitsu18
Star Trek is a franchise with a responsibility. It is not a copy-paste franchise like so many IPs nowadays. In my other thread I went into detail about that, read it if you like. Suffice it to say, Star Trek is not an IP that should have been made into a game like this. If they would have used Star Wars or Babylon 5 or something else, it would have been fine. But Cryptic missed the mark on the Star Trekkiness of the game. Even if it's enjoyable, it's not Trek; and Trek needs to be Trek, otherwise it fails." "end Quote"
I hope you don't mind if I paste my response here, as to keep this discussion where it belongs
I actually wonder what a fan of the I.P. thinks about my take on this. My response:
Precisely, however, the responsibility and image of the Star Trek franchise is not in cryptic's hands. That is the responsibility of the license holder.
It is the IP holder (who ever that may be) who should have direct oversight on what a company is doing with their I.P. Anything else is a disservice to loyal fans of said franchise. This new Trek game is as much like what I've seen of the show and movies as the newer movie that was released last year.
Cryptic and the Makers of said movie are responsible for an enjoyable product, no one can argue against this fact. However, they are not responsible for what is allowed to be done to the lore that makes Star Trek what it is. This is a matter of the I.P holders themselves cashing in on their brand, and nothing else.
They are the ones who gave the license to Cryptic and let them make the type of game they make. Which if looked at from this stand point it is a cryptic style game, and nothing more. They did their part in pleasing those who like what they offer, IMO. The problem is they were allowed to bend Trek into what they could make, rather than bend their style into what Star trek should be.
I am not making an absolute judgment. However, this is exactly what has become of the Star Wars franchise in recent years. Turning what was great into mainstream mock ups, to please the masses.
Disclaimer: I am not supporting cryptic, I am not saying they offered anything they should have, I am saying they did what they do.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
100% agree with you OP, Star Trek Online is a horrible interpretation of the Star Trek IP. Space should be vast, seamless and explorable and so small part of Star Trek is combat, I would say more then 25%, yet in this game it is 99% about combat in some form.
But, after playing LOTRO and being more of a Tolkien fan than Trekkie, all I can say is that buying an IP is about making money, simple as that. In all these years there have been only two MMORPGs that have been true to the IP they, supposedly, are based on and those are WoW and SWG (pre NGE).
All others, AoC, WAR, LOTRO and now STO, have all be terribly dumbed down action based games only loosely based on their IP. Unfourtunately that is the case with games based on IPs, they are just bought for them to bring in more money. Being true to the IP is secondary, or even not on their list of priorities at all.
I wrote a big reply here. But I've just deleted it. I don't feel like continuing along this current vein, as all I've wound up doing, for the most part, is reiterate what I said in the OP over and over. That is a great deal of what this reply consisted of, before I deleted it. I'm afraid I feel as though I've been misinterpreted in the arguments against my points, and all I can continue to do is further break down what I've said. But I feel I've said it clearly the first time, so I really have no desire to do it again.
I feel your pain. Sadly for now we have STO, which I see as a sci fi game I can play with friends. It pains me to compare it to what it could've been so i'll just wait and hopefully one day someone will make a more simulation based game. Though I feel we're in for a wait. Its funds vs profit im afraid and until we get a group of developers who love star trek the same way some of us do, I'll sit with STO and make the most of what is avaliable.
Longing for Skyrim, The Old Republic and Mass Effect 3
I to am a huge star trek fan and while I understand what you are trying to convey here, most of it is not possible to do in an mmo setting.
Nay sayers always say things cannot be done just because it is hard. Eve is a perfect example that the things the OP talks about CAN be done. Granted Eve is not all he wants but it is a HUGE galaxy/sector with not one single instance. Also the game has a true, player driven economy with lots of non combat related activities.
So if I would build a Star Trek Online game then I would take a hard look at Eve and customize their model to the Star Trek IP. Instead it seems that Cryptic only looked at Champions Online and just changed the setting to space.
If you go through a list about things that would be alot more Star Trek than what we currently have we get the follow (for example)
Seamless large areas of space connected by warp-travel - This can be done, Eve and Asherons Call, and to some extent even WoW showed that it is possible to have huge seamless zones. As a comparison in STO we dont even have space, we get some kind of weird warp map, that is tiny, and action maps, that are even more tiny.
Non combat based content - This can also be done, SWG (pre NGE) had tons of non combat based activities. So has Eve so this is something that definetely can be done.
True exploration - If you have large areas of seamless space than exploration can be added here. Also Eve has a system where you can scan for wormholes etc, which you then can warp to, and that is something STO could do as well but instead they insert random "anamolies" where you get some loot from, pretty pathetic.
Diplomacy - PvP diplomacy has been done in many games (Eve and Asherons Call DT) so this is definetely possible. For PvE it is a bit trickier but even there you could have faction standings and other things you can use to manipulate PvE factions. STO has none of this.
Consequences for your actions - In Star Trek losing a starship was a HUGE loss. Obviously we dont want that in a game but there should be some consequences. Losing credits, some exp, ANYTHING. But in STO you can lose houndreds of galaxy class cruisers and you wont even notice it. Another immersion killer.
Complex crafting - This has been done in so many games and there is no reason why an IP which is largely based on gadgets and complex theories NOT to have complex crafting. SWG had it, Eve has it and to some extent even EQ 2 has it but not for Star Trek Online. Crafting consists of finding items in anomolies and handing them in to an NPC.
So even if the perfect Star Trek Online MMORPG probably cant be done there are possibilities now that allows you to do a much better job than what Cryptic has done. They have basically just ignored the IP and created an action shooter with almost no MMORPG elements at all. That is a huge wasted opportunity for one of the largest and best IPs ever made.
I to am a huge star trek fan and while I understand what you are trying to convey here, most of it is not possible to do in an mmo setting.
Nay sayers always say things cannot be done just because it is hard. Eve is a perfect example that the things the OP talks about CAN be done. Granted Eve is not all he wants but it is a HUGE galaxy/sector with not one single instance. Also the game has a true, player driven economy with lots of non combat related activities.
So if I would build a Star Trek Online game then I would take a hard look at Eve and customize their model to the Star Trek IP. Instead it seems that Cryptic only looked at Champions Online and just changed the setting to space.
If you go through a list about things that would be alot more Star Trek than what we currently have we get the follow (for example)
Seamless large areas of space connected by warp-travel - This can be done, Eve and Asherons Call, and to some extent even WoW showed that it is possible to have huge seamless zones. As a comparison in STO we dont even have space, we get some kind of weird warp map, that is tiny, and action maps, that are even more tiny.
Seemless spaces in wow are seemless to those who have a fast enough computer. ask many folks about how those seemless spaces aren't so seemless. Now I am not saying that cryptic couldn't have done better with their space travel. There have been several good ideas that I have seen from lots of people, that would have made space travel more fun.
Non combat based content - This can also be done, SWG (pre NGE) had tons of non combat based activities. So has Eve so this is something that definetely can be done.
And given time STO will also have more non combat stuff. Again, your looking at games that have been out for MANY years vs one that hasn't even officially released yet. Give them a little time.
True exploration - If you have large areas of seamless space than exploration can be added here. Also Eve has a system where you can scan for wormholes etc, which you then can warp to, and that is something STO could do as well but instead they insert random "anamolies" where you get some loot from, pretty pathetic.
Eve just put those wormholes in within the last year. Again, comparing a game thats been out for MANY years vs one that isn't even out yet. Give em some time, I am confident that things like this will be added to.
Diplomacy - PvP diplomacy has been done in many games (Eve and Asherons Call DT) so this is definetely possible. For PvE it is a bit trickier but even there you could have faction standings and other things you can use to manipulate PvE factions. STO has none of this.
I could give a rats ass about pvp anything. But more options is always good. Oh, and I wont mention that whole, how long other games have been out and added those same features over the years and not releasing with a lot of them at their start to.
Consequences for your actions - In Star Trek losing a starship was a HUGE loss. Obviously we dont want that in a game but there should be some consequences. Losing credits, some exp, ANYTHING. But in STO you can lose houndreds of galaxy class cruisers and you wont even notice it. Another immersion killer.
I will not argue this point. I am a huge fan of death penalties and feel they need to be harsh, simply to prevent the zerg mentality that has become the norm for todays mmos.
Complex crafting - This has been done in so many games and there is no reason why an IP which is largely based on gadgets and complex theories NOT to have complex crafting. SWG had it, Eve has it and to some extent even EQ 2 has it but not for Star Trek Online. Crafting consists of finding items in anomolies and handing them in to an NPC.
Personally I think crafting should be ripped out of every game, but that is my personal opinion.
So even if the perfect Star Trek Online MMORPG probably cant be done there are possibilities now that allows you to do a much better job than what Cryptic has done. They have basically just ignored the IP and created an action shooter with almost no MMORPG elements at all. That is a huge wasted opportunity for one of the largest and best IPs ever made.
You are absolutely right in that someone elses vision of ST would have been "different". What cryptic has done is make, in essence, 2 games in 1 and they did it in less than 2 years. There are a LOT of sacrifices that will be made up front, to get that out the door that quickly. But JUST like all those other games that you love quoting here, they will improve and make it better as time goes on. Then at some point 5 years down the road, somebody else is going to be complaining about a new game that is releasing and I bet you anything, they will be mentioning Star Trek online, saying, but STO has this feature, why couldn't you have put something in like it. Rome wasn't built in a day people, give the game a chance to grow.
You think Eve started out great? It didn't. That player ran economy took many years to actually settle down into something that is actually OK. Sure they made space vast, but it is still empty. Cryptic in essence was taking 2 different games and putting them into 1 package. You have ground combat and you have space combat. You don't have that in eve and its been out for many years now. heck, you still can't even get out of your ship. And lets not forget that while they don't have instances, huge battles are nothing more than a lag fest which often times brings down the zones they are in. I mean, come on, CCP even asks that you tell them if your going to have a battle so that they can "try" and keep the servers up for it.
Ok, I am posting my responses to your points in yellow above.
Comments
I agree with you 100%. It's a disposable IP to them, worth whatever money it makes with as little effort as possible, and then it'll sit on the shelves. What I really hope is that someone else, someday, will buy the IP from CBS, and actually care about it. CBS might sell it for cheap after they ruin Star Trek XII and run the MMO into the ground.
The main problem with Star Trek, whether it be the movies, TV shows, books or video games has been and is now the owner of the IP, CBS Paramount.
And I also agree with Kyleran, in that I fully believe a game that the OP describes is possible. The problem is that the IP is owned by CBS/Paramount, given to Atari, and thrown to Cryptic all of which not only do not have the creative and technical talent for making this possible, but are unwilling to invest the funds to do so.
Until Star Trek is in the hands of a competent owner, I'm afraid the IP is going to continue to suffer.
I have to agree with most of what i have read here. I have been a Trek fan since TNG and have loved every series since. The movies have been good but nothing as complex and in depth as the series'. i am however very upset at the amount this game lacks. When i first heard about it coming out I too was very excited and i followed all the dev changes and transfers and got more and more worried about its release being worth anything or even happening at all. This mess they call an mmo is a disgrace to the franchise and true fans are justified in being upset about this. The series them self took a turn to violence and action but to think that this was the best they could come up with for an mmo makes me wonder how hard this is to do. No exploration and diplomacy just makes this thing bland and lifeless. Sorry Cryptic, but this game really blows.
I didn't see this thread before this post of yours:
"Quote" "Originally posted by Akimitsu18
Star Trek is a franchise with a responsibility. It is not a copy-paste franchise like so many IPs nowadays. In my other thread I went into detail about that, read it if you like. Suffice it to say, Star Trek is not an IP that should have been made into a game like this. If they would have used Star Wars or Babylon 5 or something else, it would have been fine. But Cryptic missed the mark on the Star Trekkiness of the game. Even if it's enjoyable, it's not Trek; and Trek needs to be Trek, otherwise it fails." "end Quote"
I hope you don't mind if I paste my response here, as to keep this discussion where it belongs
I actually wonder what a fan of the I.P. thinks about my take on this. My response:
Precisely, however, the responsibility and image of the Star Trek franchise is not in cryptic's hands. That is the responsibility of the license holder.
It is the IP holder (who ever that may be) who should have direct oversight on what a company is doing with their I.P. Anything else is a disservice to loyal fans of said franchise. This new Trek game is as much like what I've seen of the show and movies as the newer movie that was released last year.
Cryptic and the Makers of said movie are responsible for an enjoyable product, no one can argue against this fact. However, they are not responsible for what is allowed to be done to the lore that makes Star Trek what it is. This is a matter of the I.P holders themselves cashing in on their brand, and nothing else.
They are the ones who gave the license to Cryptic and let them make the type of game they make. Which if looked at from this stand point it is a cryptic style game, and nothing more. They did their part in pleasing those who like what they offer, IMO. The problem is they were allowed to bend Trek into what they could make, rather than bend their style into what Star trek should be.
I am not making an absolute judgment. However, this is exactly what has become of the Star Wars franchise in recent years. Turning what was great into mainstream mock ups, to please the masses.
Disclaimer: I am not supporting cryptic, I am not saying they offered anything they should have, I am saying they did what they do.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
100% agree with you OP, Star Trek Online is a horrible interpretation of the Star Trek IP. Space should be vast, seamless and explorable and so small part of Star Trek is combat, I would say more then 25%, yet in this game it is 99% about combat in some form.
But, after playing LOTRO and being more of a Tolkien fan than Trekkie, all I can say is that buying an IP is about making money, simple as that. In all these years there have been only two MMORPGs that have been true to the IP they, supposedly, are based on and those are WoW and SWG (pre NGE).
All others, AoC, WAR, LOTRO and now STO, have all be terribly dumbed down action based games only loosely based on their IP. Unfourtunately that is the case with games based on IPs, they are just bought for them to bring in more money. Being true to the IP is secondary, or even not on their list of priorities at all.
My gaming blog
I feel your pain. Sadly for now we have STO, which I see as a sci fi game I can play with friends. It pains me to compare it to what it could've been so i'll just wait and hopefully one day someone will make a more simulation based game. Though I feel we're in for a wait. Its funds vs profit im afraid and until we get a group of developers who love star trek the same way some of us do, I'll sit with STO and make the most of what is avaliable.
Longing for Skyrim, The Old Republic and Mass Effect 3
Nay sayers always say things cannot be done just because it is hard. Eve is a perfect example that the things the OP talks about CAN be done. Granted Eve is not all he wants but it is a HUGE galaxy/sector with not one single instance. Also the game has a true, player driven economy with lots of non combat related activities.
So if I would build a Star Trek Online game then I would take a hard look at Eve and customize their model to the Star Trek IP. Instead it seems that Cryptic only looked at Champions Online and just changed the setting to space.
If you go through a list about things that would be alot more Star Trek than what we currently have we get the follow (for example)
So even if the perfect Star Trek Online MMORPG probably cant be done there are possibilities now that allows you to do a much better job than what Cryptic has done. They have basically just ignored the IP and created an action shooter with almost no MMORPG elements at all. That is a huge wasted opportunity for one of the largest and best IPs ever made.
My gaming blog
Nay sayers always say things cannot be done just because it is hard. Eve is a perfect example that the things the OP talks about CAN be done. Granted Eve is not all he wants but it is a HUGE galaxy/sector with not one single instance. Also the game has a true, player driven economy with lots of non combat related activities.
So if I would build a Star Trek Online game then I would take a hard look at Eve and customize their model to the Star Trek IP. Instead it seems that Cryptic only looked at Champions Online and just changed the setting to space.
If you go through a list about things that would be alot more Star Trek than what we currently have we get the follow (for example)
Seemless spaces in wow are seemless to those who have a fast enough computer. ask many folks about how those seemless spaces aren't so seemless. Now I am not saying that cryptic couldn't have done better with their space travel. There have been several good ideas that I have seen from lots of people, that would have made space travel more fun.
And given time STO will also have more non combat stuff. Again, your looking at games that have been out for MANY years vs one that hasn't even officially released yet. Give them a little time.
Eve just put those wormholes in within the last year. Again, comparing a game thats been out for MANY years vs one that isn't even out yet. Give em some time, I am confident that things like this will be added to.
I could give a rats ass about pvp anything. But more options is always good. Oh, and I wont mention that whole, how long other games have been out and added those same features over the years and not releasing with a lot of them at their start to.
I will not argue this point. I am a huge fan of death penalties and feel they need to be harsh, simply to prevent the zerg mentality that has become the norm for todays mmos.
Personally I think crafting should be ripped out of every game, but that is my personal opinion.
So even if the perfect Star Trek Online MMORPG probably cant be done there are possibilities now that allows you to do a much better job than what Cryptic has done. They have basically just ignored the IP and created an action shooter with almost no MMORPG elements at all. That is a huge wasted opportunity for one of the largest and best IPs ever made.
You are absolutely right in that someone elses vision of ST would have been "different". What cryptic has done is make, in essence, 2 games in 1 and they did it in less than 2 years. There are a LOT of sacrifices that will be made up front, to get that out the door that quickly. But JUST like all those other games that you love quoting here, they will improve and make it better as time goes on. Then at some point 5 years down the road, somebody else is going to be complaining about a new game that is releasing and I bet you anything, they will be mentioning Star Trek online, saying, but STO has this feature, why couldn't you have put something in like it. Rome wasn't built in a day people, give the game a chance to grow.
You think Eve started out great? It didn't. That player ran economy took many years to actually settle down into something that is actually OK. Sure they made space vast, but it is still empty. Cryptic in essence was taking 2 different games and putting them into 1 package. You have ground combat and you have space combat. You don't have that in eve and its been out for many years now. heck, you still can't even get out of your ship. And lets not forget that while they don't have instances, huge battles are nothing more than a lag fest which often times brings down the zones they are in. I mean, come on, CCP even asks that you tell them if your going to have a battle so that they can "try" and keep the servers up for it.
Ok, I am posting my responses to your points in yellow above.