After lasting 6 days in Champions Online, I was wary of this game. I tried out the beta, and I didn't last any longer. This game doesn't feel like Star Trek at all.
Originally posted by montin You make it sound like your an experience gamer, what a whole 7 years! I've been online gaming for the last 14 years and first started computer (for a lack of a better term) gaming back when the zx80 came out. Which was before a lot of you were even born. Though really I'm commenting in part due to the fact STO hasn't been released yet in the UK and so maybe you should keep your game hating to yourself as some of us haven't even played it yet. Of course I know that wont happen but I do, as a psycholgist, find the venom and effort placed in your post very interesting. I suggest you maybe stop playing MMOs because they are clearing distruping your mental health. As for STO I cant yet comment and wouldn't bother even if I could. Because at the end of the day a person should make their own mind up about anything and everything. And they certainly shouldn't listen to the rantings of some nobody on what is slowly turning into a gamer hater site.
It seems to me that a psycologist would know how to spell it. To say nothing of using paragraphs. Not to mention the other grammatical errors.
If you don't want to read negative comments about the game, reading a thread with such a title would strike me as counter-productive. I didn't go to college, though. Maybe I am wrong.
I never tire of The Doubter's take on any given subject.
Truth and honesty with a dash of irony.
It's better to lurk in forums and be thought a fool...than to endlessly "Quote" and remove all doubts.
Ah, but the silent assumption here is that the game you want to play can be made within a budget that allows it to be priced for a dollar value you are willing to pay. What if, for example, there was a hypothetical company that for purposes of the example had the most efficient and streamlined MMO production methodologies amongst all the game studios. They make the MMO that is everything you want to play, but due to the cost of making the game they must charge $50/mo and a $200 box. Would you purchase the game and subscribe? What about $100/mo and a $300 box? At some point, there will be a cost that you are not willing to pay. I think what studios feel that players are willing pay for an MMO dictates the limit of features (and to some degree polish, as this is always a time/resource tradeoff) therein. It is quite possible that the MMO you want to play cannot be made within a budget that allows a cost you are willing to pay as a consumer.
That's a very good point. I think what game developers (and possibly the publishers) are finding out is that the cost and time to create these games and to create them polished and feature rich is at odds with the sheer amount of money it takes to make them as well as what they are going to get for revenue once the game goes live.
As in your example, if a game company were to say "look, we can guarantee a complete reasonably bug free product that is feature rich but it's going to cost more for everyone" I think players would be rushing to the forums to complain.
In a you tube video of Aion's head dev, he comes out and says that what players are expecting is content on the level of WoW as far as quantity and that is a difficult thing to do given what they have. It was actually very interesting.
If we look at the mmo releases in the past 2 years or so it seems that a sort of wall has been hit. These companies can't seem to do it all. So something is going to have to give or change.
Ah, but the silent assumption here is that the game you want to play can be made within a budget that allows it to be priced for a dollar value you are willing to pay. What if, for example, there was a hypothetical company that for purposes of the example had the most efficient and streamlined MMO production methodologies amongst all the game studios. They make the MMO that is everything you want to play, but due to the cost of making the game they must charge $50/mo and a $200 box. Would you purchase the game and subscribe? What about $100/mo and a $300 box? At some point, there will be a cost that you are not willing to pay. I think what studios feel that players are willing pay for an MMO dictates the limit of features (and to some degree polish, as this is always a time/resource tradeoff) therein. It is quite possible that the MMO you want to play cannot be made within a budget that allows a cost you are willing to pay as a consumer.
That's a very good point. I think what game developers (and possibly the publishers) are finding out is that the cost and time to create these games and to create them polished and feature rich is at odds with the sheer amount of money it takes to make them as well as what they are going to get for revenue once the game goes live.
As in your example, if a game company were to say "look, we can guarantee a complete reasonably bug free product that is feature rich but it's going to cost more for everyone" I think players would be rushing to the forums to complain.
In a you tube video of Aion's head dev, he comes out and says that what players are expecting is content on the level of WoW as far as quantity and that is a difficult thing to do given what they have. It was actually very interesting.
If we look at the mmo releases in the past 2 years or so it seems that a sort of wall has been hit. These companies can't seem to do it all. So something is going to have to give or change.
What they need to do is give themselves reasonable goals to achieve; trying to develop two MMOs at the same time was foolish. Setting a two year development cycle, and expecting to shove everything they wanted into the game was foolish. Jack Emmert insisting that the Klingon faction had to be in at launch, even though they didn't have enough time to polish the Federation faction was foolish. What needs to change is for these companies to get a reasonable vision or scope of what they wish to have done by launch; setting realistic goals and alotting appropriate time to get those goals done.
"Oh my, how horrible, someone is criticizing a MMO. Oh yeah, that is what a forum is about, looking at both sides. You rather have to be critical of anything in this genre as of late because the track record of these major studios has just been appalling." -Ozmodan
But a major problem is that you studios think, that we customers have no clue about game developing and economical aspects of it.
What you studio forget tho...there are a lot of gamers with a real life, important jobs - and some of us actually GOT a clue of
economical aspects of developing and selling products - and an MMO is nothing else. And you studios forget, that we ARE the ones (supposed) finally paying money for your product (or not).
And now i do intenionally what many feel, and i do it loud and clear so you idiots (studios) MAYBE start to get a clue..
Just want to point out that while as a consumer you are entitled to purchase or not purchase whatever you want, studios are under no obligation to make games that cater to your needs. Now if they make games that caters to nobody needs, well they will go out of business. But again... game studios are under no obligation to make the games that you want to play.
If you have a problem with this, feel free to make your own MMO, with all the features you want at launch, that ships on time.
Well, if they want my money they will listen up and make the game I want. Well, hopefully someone out there will.
Meanwhile there's always forums like these where we can dish out healthy doses of criticism for fun and amusement.
Ah, but the silent assumption here is that the game you want to play can be made within a budget that allows it to be priced for a dollar value you are willing to pay.
What if, for example, there was a hypothetical company that for purposes of the example had the most efficient and streamlined MMO production methodologies amongst all the game studios. They make the MMO that is everything you want to play, but due to the cost of making the game they must charge $50/mo and a $200 box. Would you purchase the game and subscribe? What about $100/mo and a $300 box? At some point, there will be a cost that you are not willing to pay.
I think what studios feel that players are willing pay for an MMO dictates the limit of features (and to some degree polish, as this is always a time/resource tradeoff) therein. It is quite possible that the MMO you want to play cannot be made within a budget that allows a cost you are willing to pay as a consumer.
Except, there are games out there already, in the right price range that are close to what I want. DAOC was one, EVE is another, both great games and its certainly not impossible for a developer to make more games that are similar but improved to them.
I'd pay 20/mo no problem if the game was worthy, and if they give me an automatic I win button I'll give em 30.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Originally posted by Nipashnaka Just want to point out that while as a consumer you are entitled to purchase or not purchase whatever you want, studios are under no obligation to make games that cater to your needs.
Studios are entitled to exactly cater our needs - this is the very first rule in selling commercial products to a broad consumer base.
Since i am not asking for anything special but complete and not dull, i consider myself "mainstream".
If studios do not cater THIS very standard need, they better go and sell frankfurters on the 5th av.....
They make the MMO that is everything you want to play, but due to the cost of making the game they must charge $50/mo and a $200 box.
(Sorry for double post).
I come from Europe and very often i am BAFFLED, that the economical lessons at american schools are obv. ..."dissatisfying" ?
Buddy, i don't know you and this is no offense in any way ( /beer ), but i am under the impression it should be easy to understand, that if you make a product -which is very costy in developement- you are clearly aiming a "mass market", means: Selling much copies - that is called "the multiplier factor".
You can sell one pair of shoes expensive - or many pair of shoes cheap. The latter has more money at the end of the day.
This basic rule/fact makes it NEEDED to cater the needs of a majority.
The more i am "surprised", studios simply don't listen to the needs of their potential customers.
And one more thing: If you simply lack the money to fulfil this task - dont bother even starting...
And if you can't do the math at the beginning how much money will be needed at the end (plus buffer/reserves) - you are not only a bad developer, you are also a bad businessman.
Maybe its really a difference, if you are located in the USA market or European market.
See, Vivendi (mother of blizzard) is located here in Europe. We don't need to talk about the economical sucess of WoW, no ? No....
Like said before, no offense in any way bro - we are all addicted gamers and (hopefully) got the same dream: A worthy game with an immersive long lasting experience.
But this is definitly not doable the way studios acting today.
Some1 needs (metapha thinking) to speak up - that is us - we ARE the customers (or not...).
OF COURSE i will post stuff that is far away from the current situation.
But the fact the CURRENT situation is failing over and over is giving me a very valid point.
They make the MMO that is everything you want to play, but due to the cost of making the game they must charge $50/mo and a $200 box.
(Sorry for double post).
I come from Europe and very often i am BAFFLED, that the economical lessons at american schools are obv. ..."dissatisfying" ?
Buddy, i don't know you and this is no offense in any way ( /beer ), but i am under the impression it should be easy to understand, that if you make a product -which is very costy in developement- you are clearly aiming a "mass market", means: Selling much copies - that is called "the multiplier factor".
You can sell one pair of shoes expensive - or many pair of shoes cheap.
The latter has more money at the end of the day.
This basic rule/fact makes it NEEDED to cater the needs of a majority.
The more i am "surprised", studios simply don't listen to the needs of their potential customers.
And one more thing:
If you simply lack the money to fulfil this task - dont bother even starting...
And if you can't do the math at the beginning how much money will be needed at the end (plus buffer/reserves) - you are not only a bad developer, you are also a bad businessman.
Maybe its really a difference, if you are located in the USA market or European market.
See, Vivendi (mother of blizzard) is located here in Europe.
We don't need to talk about the economical sucess of WoW, no ?
No....
Like said before, no offense in any way bro - we are all addicted gamers and (hopefully) got the same dream:
A worthy game with an immersive long lasting experience.
But this is definitly not doable the way studios acting today.
Some1 needs (metapha thinking) to speak up - that is us - we ARE the customers (or not...).
OF COURSE i will post stuff that is far away from the current situation.
But the fact the CURRENT situation is failing over and over is giving me a very valid point.
I come from the school of thought that corporations which provide goods and services are in no way obligated to meet your needs. It's a free market, so if they aren't meeting somebody's needs they'll go out of business. But you are missing the point.
You, as a consumer, have no right to tell a private corporation how they must do business. You may buy their goods, or not. That's it. If the corporation is funded from public tax dollars, that's another story... maybe Europeans are so used to companies being subsidized that they feel they do have a right to tell private corporations how they must do business.
It's like if players were game developers, they would be telling customers how full of fail they were for not buying their product. I could see it now on some hypothetical MMORPGDEV.com message board: "I am BAFFLED that players are not buying my product! They are bad customers! Someone needs to speak up, and tell players how to play games!!!" This is what players do right now, in reverse, to game companies.
The features of a product is determined by the company that makes them, the board of directors, the investors, and so forth. Not players. Companies may do whatever they wish with their games, and players may choose to buy them, or not buy them. This is a very basic concept, and I'm unsure why there is some difficulty communicating it.
If someone thinks they can do better (and many indie companies have - especially in the casual game/facebook space), it's a free market, go for it. Nothing is stopping you.
Companies like Cryptic/Atari will continue to market games using the hype engine on a 2 year cycle if people KEEP ON BUYING their product and services.. People need to stop chasing a carrot on a stick, based on hype, and wait till you actually see some MEAT to chew on..
You, as a consumer, have no right to tell a private corporation how they must do business. You may buy their goods, or not. That's it.
This is what i've said earlier - you simply don't understand basical machanism and how a market is working - thats why your economy is down the hill.
Its called "supply and demand" and that is exactly what a company has to consider IF they want to sell.
So basically the consumer very well "tells" a company what to do - and what not.
Of course you can ignore the needs of the market and do what you want...but then you might join the long long row of the unemployment office very soon.
All I can say is I already voted with my wallet, and that was with a resounding no. I was glad I had a free open beta key and I did not have to use any real money to get a look at this pour excuse of a game.
All I can sugest at this point is to cut your losses and run, that is if you are really unhappy. Dont give them any more of your cash. If enough folks start doing that, Cryptic will have to change. Untill then they will keep giving you the same old stuff, as when you pay them you are saying im good with this.
Supply and demand. I don't demand it, there is a supply and its going to stay on the store shelf as far as I care.
You, as a consumer, have no right to tell a private corporation how they must do business. You may buy their goods, or not. That's it.
This is what i've said earlier - you simply don't understand basical machanism and how a market is working - thats why your economy is down the hill.
Its called "supply and demand" and that is exactly what a company has to consider IF they want to sell.
So basically the consumer very well "tells" a company what to do - and what not.
Of course you can ignore the needs of the market and do what you want...but then you might join the long long row of the unemployment office very soon.
So basically what you are saying is this:
You want a Flying Car. Therefor, you DEMAND that Ford Motor Company makes a Flying car, for the price you want to pay, and delivers it on a schedule that is convenient to your needs. Because, after all, you are the consumer and you get to tell Ford what to do. Not the shareholders, not the board of directors, not the CEO. Not even reality or the laws of physics. But you, personally.
it would help actually READING what i wrote instead of posting assumptions.
See, this was my initial posting, a little snippet: >>I don't like car analogies but i will once more bring them anyway: >>When i buy a car i want it complete, because i also pay completely.
So to answer your question: No, i don't want a flying car. I just want a car that is complete because you want me to pay completely.
Please read more carefully what was posted before - Thank you.
All I can say is I already voted with my wallet, and that was with a resounding no. I was glad I had a free open beta key and I did not have to use any real money to get a look at this pour excuse of a game. All I can sugest at this point is to cut your losses and run, that is if you are really unhappy. Dont give them any more of your cash. If enough folks start doing that, Cryptic will have to change. Untill then they will keep giving you the same old stuff, as when you pay them you are saying im good with this. Supply and demand. I don't demand it, there is a supply and its going to stay on the store shelf as far as I care.
Nice post! I have also voted no...I am kinda surprised by so many negatives though. I kinda expected more from the Star Trek community trying to turn a positive spin on this game but obviously I thought wrong. It's not even satisfying most of the hard core Trekie fans...
All I can say is I already voted with my wallet, and that was with a resounding no. I was glad I had a free open beta key and I did not have to use any real money to get a look at this pour excuse of a game. All I can sugest at this point is to cut your losses and run, that is if you are really unhappy. Dont give them any more of your cash. If enough folks start doing that, Cryptic will have to change. Untill then they will keep giving you the same old stuff, as when you pay them you are saying im good with this. Supply and demand. I don't demand it, there is a supply and its going to stay on the store shelf as far as I care.
Nice post! I have also voted no...I am kinda surprised by so many negatives though. I kinda expected more from the Star Trek community trying to turn a positive spin on this game but obviously I thought wrong. It's not even satisfying most of the hard core Trekie fans...
Err I think you'll find that, as always, an unhappy customer is far more vocal about their opinion than someone who is happy. I would imagine that a large majority of the happy customers do not look for places to "defend" or "spin" the game. If I go to the local supermarket, can park, get my shopping for a good price get every item on my list I will take that for granted, It was what I had expected. If I get there and can't park, find it expensive and their choice lacking I will tell people.
And, errrr where did you get the notion that most of the hard core trekies are not satisfied? If you have proof of this please correct me.
Nipashnaka, it would help actually READING what i wrote instead of posting assumptions. See, this was my initial posting, a little snippet:
>>I don't like car analogies but i will once more bring them anyway:
>>When i buy a car i want it complete, because i also pay completely. So to answer your question:
No, i don't want a flying car.
I just want a car that is complete because you want me to pay completely.
You want a game that is your version of complete. The simple and "free market" answer is: don't buy games which aren't up to your standards of completeness. Your complaint seems to be that no MMO is up to your standards - and that's fine. But you have no right to demand any given studio makes games which are. You have no more right to demand a studio makes your game, than a studio has to demand you buy theirs. The "free market" solution is that you from make a game which is up to your standards, and if you are right, everyone will buy it for whatever price you can afford to sell it at.
I don't understand why this is such a difficult concept.
I wrote this for the official STO boards where it got a big response, surprisingly the majority of responses were from people in agreement. So i thought maybe it was worth posting here too. Hopefully it will help those in doubt to hear my opinion.
I have never, in my 7 year history of MMO gaming, been so bored so quickly in an MMORPG. And as a RP'er (someone who can usually make something out of nothing), big Star Trek fan and casual gamer, that is saying something. Its a sad day when i am actually having to force myself to log in. The first day i logged in, i was having a blast! It was all new, it was Star Trek, it's a space MMO! But then i slowly started to get, well, bored.
My skill tree seems... Completely pointless. Meaningless. Why am i pumping hundreds of my well earned Skill Points into skills i'm not even that bothered about? Why am i being forced to spend points into skills i dont intend to use, just because i have some skill points to spend. Where is my skill cap, letting me know exactly how many skill points i can accumulate and allocate accordingly? Without any bearing on the amount of skills im allocated, how do i know when my skills will run out and skill point allocation will actually begin to matter? Why does the entire skill system, skill box, skill tree, why does it all seem so cheap, rushed and crude for a modern MMO. Star Wars Galaxies skill system was infinitely better than this, and it actually showed you where you were heading and how to do it. And that game is 7 years old.
What does each level of skill even mean? +6, +8, +16... + What? What am i adding to my character and ship? What do these skills even do and how do they affect me? I feel like im just pumping up skills because it 'seems right'. You might as well have made this a level based system with such a basic and crude skill system in place.
Survival isn't an issue. I have an inter-galactic starship full of the federation's finest yet every time i let myself die i'm not punished or penalized. There is no death deturrent! I am in god-mode, i am Captain X flying the USS Invincible. How can i lose? Where is the basic rule of any game, there is always a victor and there is always a loser, in some shape or form, you must win and you must lose. The entire point of a game with rules and boundaries is to master that game to ensure you dont lose, that is where the fun comes in. A game isn't fun because 'thats what it is', a game is fun because of the journey you go through and the gratification of reaching the end with something to show for it.
Progression.Why am i levelling up in this game? Why should i do repeatable missions (of which there is an abundance from your very first level in the game - very shocking for a game that boasts great PvE content) when i have no incentive other than to gain the 'next ship'. I'm almost afraid to get that next ship, because then what? I must grind and bore myself through another 10 levels to get the next ship (which everyoen will have) for any sense of accomplishment or gratification.
PvP is a senseless arena match with no rules or boundaries to prevent griefing or smooth fair game-play. It is a matter of pitching your cookie-cutter ships vs their cookie-cutter ships of the same level range and hoping you don't get a 2vs1 scenario. It is a gank fest. It is not epic or RPG worthy, it is purely an arcade arena match where the best tactic is to fire off as much weaponry before you die.
Space is an instanced 20x20 map where there is nothing but you and 20 other AI ships (the only inhabitance), and guess what, those twenty other ships want you dead! Woops! Times are hard as an inter-galactic peace keeping federation.
To Boldy Go Where No-one Has Been Before (probably because it's so damn boring) consists of a 20x20 cookie-cutter environment where there are no natural life-forms, indigenous creatures, civilizations, or flora! Only mindless, knuckle-dragging space villains neatly packed into groups of 3-5 spread out evenly across the map who's sole purpose is (you guessed it), kill you! And guess what? In order to complete your mission, you must mindlessly kill every single one of them because they are conveniently stacked on top of your 'objective' item. Better get ready to mash those 1, 2 and 3 keys! Basic fire, special fire, punch. It gets agonizingly boring, after your 5th ground encounter you will dread the next, and the next, and the next - only to be rewarded with a few skill points. Not nearly enough for the 15 minutes of boredom you just endured massacring that entire Klingon battallion with your away team.
In conclusion(and future STO content). Yeah, all MMORPG's follow a basic formula when it comes to playing through the game. Stacks of mobs you must senselessly slaughter, quests that seem far-fetched, scenarios that are just silly and inevitably boring. But at least these guys try to dress it up a little, make it a little more fancy, a little more entertaining, and there is always something waiting to reward you at the end of it all. It's almost as if Cryptic believes we actually want to simply be ported into a 20x20 boxed off space every 10 minutes with 50+ mobs to slaughter so we can have great fun 'earning' some skill points. The environments are lifeless, the mobs have no character, the game has no soul. This has already dragged on, and i have barely touched upon many of the aspects of this game that completely let it and the franchise down (such as the lack of many true Star Trek features, overall immersion and the severe lack of a 'massive multiplayer' aspect in an extremely instanced world). I know some of you are hoping for future miracle content, but unfortunately, when the games super-structure is flawed and terribly out-dated from the start, no amount of 'new content' will make you any more interested than you were before. I truly feel sorry for the lifers (many of which are just hopeful Star Trek fans such as me who put their money on false promises).
I sincerely hope this is Cryptics last endeavor, although unfortunately, Cryptics quick thinking (to sell off Lifetime Subscriptions for a game that'll last you a week at best, pre-order bonuses with the promise of future new great 'content' and the false hope of a real Star Trek game), has suckered many'a poor souls hard earned money into funding Cryptics next quick-buck money making scheme (their next cheap, rushed MMO). All while they sh*t all over the industry and push it backwards and not forward as so many 'games makers' (businessmen) are doing these days, and its not just you Cryptic lets get that straight. Technology is constantly improving, yet games consistently deterierate - mind boggling.
Together money hungry publishers alongside developers have turned a wonderful, magical industry into nothing more than a dirty, money hungry whore - and thats exactly what this industry has become, metaphorically speaking. Developers who see nothing but $$$ signs without being willing to take risks and push the genre forward are quite frankly the cancer of the gaming industry, eating it up from the inside and spitting out the remains for players to chew on. And STO is a prime example.
[Mod Edit]
Agreed. Super Pro Tip to people who actually want to listen.
If people are having fun in the game more power to them, it's their money and they can do whatever they want with it. UNFORTUNATELY! After they get shafted, most will start posting like this. Then the "I told you so" bout shall begin.
Comments
After lasting 6 days in Champions Online, I was wary of this game. I tried out the beta, and I didn't last any longer. This game doesn't feel like Star Trek at all.
It seems to me that a psycologist would know how to spell it. To say nothing of using paragraphs. Not to mention the other grammatical errors.
If you don't want to read negative comments about the game, reading a thread with such a title would strike me as counter-productive. I didn't go to college, though. Maybe I am wrong.
I never tire of The Doubter's take on any given subject.
Truth and honesty with a dash of irony.
It's better to lurk in forums and be thought a fool...than to endlessly "Quote" and remove all doubts.
That's a very good point. I think what game developers (and possibly the publishers) are finding out is that the cost and time to create these games and to create them polished and feature rich is at odds with the sheer amount of money it takes to make them as well as what they are going to get for revenue once the game goes live.
As in your example, if a game company were to say "look, we can guarantee a complete reasonably bug free product that is feature rich but it's going to cost more for everyone" I think players would be rushing to the forums to complain.
In a you tube video of Aion's head dev, he comes out and says that what players are expecting is content on the level of WoW as far as quantity and that is a difficult thing to do given what they have. It was actually very interesting.
If we look at the mmo releases in the past 2 years or so it seems that a sort of wall has been hit. These companies can't seem to do it all. So something is going to have to give or change.
And yet they still make em.
That's a very good point. I think what game developers (and possibly the publishers) are finding out is that the cost and time to create these games and to create them polished and feature rich is at odds with the sheer amount of money it takes to make them as well as what they are going to get for revenue once the game goes live.
As in your example, if a game company were to say "look, we can guarantee a complete reasonably bug free product that is feature rich but it's going to cost more for everyone" I think players would be rushing to the forums to complain.
In a you tube video of Aion's head dev, he comes out and says that what players are expecting is content on the level of WoW as far as quantity and that is a difficult thing to do given what they have. It was actually very interesting.
If we look at the mmo releases in the past 2 years or so it seems that a sort of wall has been hit. These companies can't seem to do it all. So something is going to have to give or change.
What they need to do is give themselves reasonable goals to achieve; trying to develop two MMOs at the same time was foolish. Setting a two year development cycle, and expecting to shove everything they wanted into the game was foolish. Jack Emmert insisting that the Klingon faction had to be in at launch, even though they didn't have enough time to polish the Federation faction was foolish. What needs to change is for these companies to get a reasonable vision or scope of what they wish to have done by launch; setting realistic goals and alotting appropriate time to get those goals done.
"Oh my, how horrible, someone is criticizing a MMO. Oh yeah, that is what a forum is about, looking at both sides. You rather have to be critical of anything in this genre as of late because the track record of these major studios has just been appalling." -Ozmodan
If you have a problem with this, feel free to make your own MMO, with all the features you want at launch, that ships on time.
Well, if they want my money they will listen up and make the game I want. Well, hopefully someone out there will.
Meanwhile there's always forums like these where we can dish out healthy doses of criticism for fun and amusement.
Ah, but the silent assumption here is that the game you want to play can be made within a budget that allows it to be priced for a dollar value you are willing to pay.
What if, for example, there was a hypothetical company that for purposes of the example had the most efficient and streamlined MMO production methodologies amongst all the game studios. They make the MMO that is everything you want to play, but due to the cost of making the game they must charge $50/mo and a $200 box. Would you purchase the game and subscribe? What about $100/mo and a $300 box? At some point, there will be a cost that you are not willing to pay.
I think what studios feel that players are willing pay for an MMO dictates the limit of features (and to some degree polish, as this is always a time/resource tradeoff) therein. It is quite possible that the MMO you want to play cannot be made within a budget that allows a cost you are willing to pay as a consumer.
Except, there are games out there already, in the right price range that are close to what I want. DAOC was one, EVE is another, both great games and its certainly not impossible for a developer to make more games that are similar but improved to them.
I'd pay 20/mo no problem if the game was worthy, and if they give me an automatic I win button I'll give em 30.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
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Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
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"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Studios are entitled to exactly cater our needs - this is the very first rule in selling commercial products to a broad consumer base.
Since i am not asking for anything special but complete and not dull, i consider myself "mainstream".
If studios do not cater THIS very standard need, they better go and sell frankfurters on the 5th av.....
Claude
(Sorry for double post).
I come from Europe and very often i am BAFFLED, that the economical lessons at american schools are obv. ..."dissatisfying" ?
Buddy, i don't know you and this is no offense in any way ( /beer ), but i am under the impression it should be easy to understand, that if you make a product -which is very costy in developement- you are clearly aiming a "mass market", means: Selling much copies - that is called "the multiplier factor".
You can sell one pair of shoes expensive - or many pair of shoes cheap.
The latter has more money at the end of the day.
This basic rule/fact makes it NEEDED to cater the needs of a majority.
The more i am "surprised", studios simply don't listen to the needs of their potential customers.
And one more thing:
If you simply lack the money to fulfil this task - dont bother even starting...
And if you can't do the math at the beginning how much money will be needed at the end (plus buffer/reserves) - you are not only a bad developer, you are also a bad businessman.
Maybe its really a difference, if you are located in the USA market or European market.
See, Vivendi (mother of blizzard) is located here in Europe.
We don't need to talk about the economical sucess of WoW, no ?
No....
Like said before, no offense in any way bro - we are all addicted gamers and (hopefully) got the same dream:
A worthy game with an immersive long lasting experience.
But this is definitly not doable the way studios acting today.
Some1 needs (metapha thinking) to speak up - that is us - we ARE the customers (or not...).
OF COURSE i will post stuff that is far away from the current situation.
But the fact the CURRENT situation is failing over and over is giving me a very valid point.
Claude
(Sorry for double post).
I come from Europe and very often i am BAFFLED, that the economical lessons at american schools are obv. ..."dissatisfying" ?
Buddy, i don't know you and this is no offense in any way ( /beer ), but i am under the impression it should be easy to understand, that if you make a product -which is very costy in developement- you are clearly aiming a "mass market", means: Selling much copies - that is called "the multiplier factor".
You can sell one pair of shoes expensive - or many pair of shoes cheap.
The latter has more money at the end of the day.
This basic rule/fact makes it NEEDED to cater the needs of a majority.
The more i am "surprised", studios simply don't listen to the needs of their potential customers.
And one more thing:
If you simply lack the money to fulfil this task - dont bother even starting...
And if you can't do the math at the beginning how much money will be needed at the end (plus buffer/reserves) - you are not only a bad developer, you are also a bad businessman.
Maybe its really a difference, if you are located in the USA market or European market.
See, Vivendi (mother of blizzard) is located here in Europe.
We don't need to talk about the economical sucess of WoW, no ?
No....
Like said before, no offense in any way bro - we are all addicted gamers and (hopefully) got the same dream:
A worthy game with an immersive long lasting experience.
But this is definitly not doable the way studios acting today.
Some1 needs (metapha thinking) to speak up - that is us - we ARE the customers (or not...).
OF COURSE i will post stuff that is far away from the current situation.
But the fact the CURRENT situation is failing over and over is giving me a very valid point.
Companies like Cryptic/Atari will continue to market games using the hype engine on a 2 year cycle if people KEEP ON BUYING their product and services.. People need to stop chasing a carrot on a stick, based on hype, and wait till you actually see some MEAT to chew on..
Wow never seen so many kids go off on so many tangents .
Basically all things aside we can all pretty much clearly for the record state this game is fail as anything more then a coaster.
Cryptic thanks for nothing. As usual.
This is what i've said earlier - you simply don't understand basical machanism and how a market is working - thats why your economy is down the hill.
Its called "supply and demand" and that is exactly what a company has to consider IF they want to sell.
So basically the consumer very well "tells" a company what to do - and what not.
Of course you can ignore the needs of the market and do what you want...but then you might join the long long row of the unemployment office very soon.
Claude
All I can say is I already voted with my wallet, and that was with a resounding no. I was glad I had a free open beta key and I did not have to use any real money to get a look at this pour excuse of a game.
All I can sugest at this point is to cut your losses and run, that is if you are really unhappy. Dont give them any more of your cash. If enough folks start doing that, Cryptic will have to change. Untill then they will keep giving you the same old stuff, as when you pay them you are saying im good with this.
Supply and demand. I don't demand it, there is a supply and its going to stay on the store shelf as far as I care.
This is what i've said earlier - you simply don't understand basical machanism and how a market is working - thats why your economy is down the hill.
Its called "supply and demand" and that is exactly what a company has to consider IF they want to sell.
So basically the consumer very well "tells" a company what to do - and what not.
Of course you can ignore the needs of the market and do what you want...but then you might join the long long row of the unemployment office very soon.
So basically what you are saying is this:
You want a Flying Car. Therefor, you DEMAND that Ford Motor Company makes a Flying car, for the price you want to pay, and delivers it on a schedule that is convenient to your needs. Because, after all, you are the consumer and you get to tell Ford what to do. Not the shareholders, not the board of directors, not the CEO. Not even reality or the laws of physics. But you, personally.
Nipashnaka,
it would help actually READING what i wrote instead of posting assumptions.
See, this was my initial posting, a little snippet:
>>I don't like car analogies but i will once more bring them anyway:
>>When i buy a car i want it complete, because i also pay completely.
So to answer your question:
No, i don't want a flying car.
I just want a car that is complete because you want me to pay completely.
Please read more carefully what was posted before - Thank you.
Claude
Nice post! I have also voted no...I am kinda surprised by so many negatives though. I kinda expected more from the Star Trek community trying to turn a positive spin on this game but obviously I thought wrong. It's not even satisfying most of the hard core Trekie fans...
Nice post! I have also voted no...I am kinda surprised by so many negatives though. I kinda expected more from the Star Trek community trying to turn a positive spin on this game but obviously I thought wrong. It's not even satisfying most of the hard core Trekie fans...
Err I think you'll find that, as always, an unhappy customer is far more vocal about their opinion than someone who is happy. I would imagine that a large majority of the happy customers do not look for places to "defend" or "spin" the game. If I go to the local supermarket, can park, get my shopping for a good price get every item on my list I will take that for granted, It was what I had expected. If I get there and can't park, find it expensive and their choice lacking I will tell people.
And, errrr where did you get the notion that most of the hard core trekies are not satisfied? If you have proof of this please correct me.
I agree with you OP. Game is mind numbingly boring. Cryptic should be ashamed they cranked out such drivel and soiled the name of Star Trek with it.
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Agreed. Super Pro Tip to people who actually want to listen.
If people are having fun in the game more power to them, it's their money and they can do whatever they want with it. UNFORTUNATELY! After they get shafted, most will start posting like this. Then the "I told you so" bout shall begin.