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ALL MMO Publishers do it...
Bob_Blawblaw
Member Posts: 1,278
In light of today's STO launching half baked (and with a new RMT scam to boot), I just want to get people to weigh in on this lame excuse to screw customers over.
We've all seen posters use it to justify something that is wrong with an MMO.
"It's not just Cryptic... or SOE... or Blizzard (yadayada)... ALL MMO Companies are doing it, so stop complaining."
Whether that means launching a game unfinished, or selling that must have item at a premium, or (gulp) revamping a beloved game into oblivion (or whatever these scammer companies are doing to pi$$ people off). Why do people defend heinous actions of MMO pub/devs just because other MMO pub/devs do the same thing?
Most importantly, if ALL MMO companies are doing it, WHY should we stop complaining? You'd think that would mean we should be complaining MORE! Do the posters who use this excuse actually WANT to get screwed?
Comments
Any gamer that might feel screwed will talk with his wallet. No idea how you get the idea of posters wanting to get screwed. Every crossed your mind that some might simple enjoy the things you try to pretend are scams?
And nope not defending anything, as that is what you probebly will see something like this just like you see scams from ALL company's, perhaps you need to relaxe and simply as said talk with the wallet as in not paying a dime to something YOU might feel is a scam, but then that seems to be very hard to do for certain type of people, hence topics like this appear.
Currently playing Fallen Earth, taken years since a MMORPG has grabbed me like FE bet you might find something that might be a scam in your view or you might call things in it unfinished, atleast thats the idea of thought you seem to spread.
I also know it's popular these day's to either call out Scams, Fail, bash and what ever.
I think you missed the point of this thread completely. We're all individuals and have likes and dislikes. That's great. I'm not talking about WHAT these companies are doing that makes people revolt on forums. I'm talking about the fact that many times, posters will defend said actions with the excuse "Everyone else is doing it".
Yes i cant beilieve ive been so stupid i actually expect game companies to do what they say they will
all this time and i could be getting my kicks spending my hard earned cash on something useless to me in game or i need to survive in game all while paying an overinflated price for a fancy box with disc and a game with no substance
Granted if someone doesn't feel scammed, its no biggie for them. But I think what the OP is pointing out is that when the defenders of the publishers defend them with the specific argument "all mmo's do it" then they are in effect acknowledging that the company has done something wrong, yet are defending it.
And that's where I was hoping to go with this thread. Time and time again, we MMO'ers are seeing this trend of a 'typical MMO launch' or 'typical MMO revamp' or whatever (again, I don't want to debate the whatever). What is wrong with us as consumers where these companies can get away with this time and time again? Reklaw says people vote with their wallets, and I wish he(she?) was right. I really do. But if people really did vote with their wallets, a 'typical MMO launch' wouldn't always be a debacle, and those of us who aren't new to MMO's wouldn't be so cynical.
Granted if someone doesn't feel scammed, its no biggie for them. But I think what the OP is pointing out is that when the defenders of the publishers defend them with the specific argument "all mmo's do it" then they are in effect acknowledging that the company has done something wrong, yet are defending it.
You got it.
For some reason certain people think that companies are within their right to do everything in their power to milk every last cent out of their customers, even if it done via shady or even harmful methods.
In other words, some people take "buyer beware" far too seriously.
It's a rather sad state these days. Coming across an honest business seems to be the exception, not the rule. Focusing on quality and developing a good business/customer relationship is a foreign notion to many companies. Eventually, as more and more people take notice of being mistreated, the ever growing distaste for such behavior will grow, and the offending companies will suffer. It's already happening with MMO developers, SoE and now Cryptic come to mind, where consumers are deciding to take their money elsewhere.
If you're only complaining about the "everyone is doing it" excuse, then I agree. A certain phrase comes to mind involving jumping and a bridge. If you truly want to defend the company, you'll have to do better than that.
How on Earth could you be screwed over?
I went and read the posts in the STO forum. No way I'm purchasing that game. Boring combat, AND RMT to unlock playable races? Forget it.
How is it the companies fault if you don't want to do any basic research before you purchase the game?
I can tell you why they do this.
Making an MMORPG is complicated as hell.
A company gets a budget, and the lead developer says, I have this great idea. Here it is, all laid out. cool huh? And everyone says, yea, that is cool. How much?
I can do that for 40 million dollars!
Ok, let's get started.
3 or 4 years later about half the "cool" stuff is in the game, and the developers have now spent 50 million dollars.
At which point someone says, uh, guys, you're over budget by 10 mill. Time to release.
And they go, well, gee, it took longer than we thought, and some of those cool things turned out to be pretty hard. Can we have another 10 mill?
And realizing the developers will do this until they spend a Billion dollars, the investors go, no, we're releasing. Hope we can make our money back.
Ta da! Another pos release.
They don't do it on purpose. They just think the can accomplish more than they really can, and they run out of money.
How on Earth could you be screwed over?
I went and read the posts in the STO forum. No way I'm purchasing that game. Boring combat, AND RMT to unlock playable races? Forget it.
How is it the companies fault if you don't want to do any basic research before you purchase the game?
I can tell you why they do this.
Making an MMORPG is complicated as hell.
A company gets a budget, and the lead developer says, I have this great idea. Here it is, all laid out. cool huh? And everyone says, yea, that is cool. How much?
I can do that for 40 million dollars!
Ok, let's get started.
3 or 4 years later about half the "cool" stuff is in the game, and the developers have now spent 50 million dollars.
At which point someone says, uh, guys, you're over budget by 10 mill. Time to release.
And they go, well, gee, it took longer than we thought, and some of those cool things turned out to be pretty hard. Can we have another 10 mill?
And realizing the developers will do this until they spend a Billion dollars, the investors go, no, we're releasing. Hope we can make our money back.
Ta da! Another pos release.
They don't do it on purpose. They just think the can accomplish more than they really can, and they run out of money.
Do you think that just because they don't do it on purpose the customer is any less screwed over? If people truly wouldn't stand for this trend they wouldn't do it. End of story.
Yes, MMO development is a sordid affair. So what. Companies over promise and under deliver. Who should be blamed then?
Us the customers?
Yes and you get that in politics, and you just have to accept the one fact in life: Life isn't fair and never has been nor ever will be. Not to say its right to do it, but the tools are there to make a smart buying choice for any consumer so I do find it completely fair since they aren't technically hiding anything. It's a big loss towards those that want to take everyone's word at face value that are probably the same suckers who bought things on infomercials from the Magic Bullet (not knocking those that love this thing but how many of the people that buy it actually use it) to Girls Gone Wild. Its their fault that they got exploited off cheap impulse buys (I don't care how big of a fan you are to STO) when the information is all out there. This is what separates the men from the boys so man up and accept the fact that you're not going to control the fact that companies want money and do what you can to make smart decisions in your life -_-
And in all fairness, I wouldn't generalize all companies based on whether or not they utilized RMT with insane sub models, I want to think there's some sort of consensus out there that can agree with me when I say Cryptic is the absolutely worst about it and that's the biggest reason why I don't even trust to buy anything from them as a company. Again, if everyone does their research and not just take every company's word for it, the practice wouldn't be so unfair, vote with your wallets and I'm sure companies would fall in line.
How on Earth could you be screwed over?
I went and read the posts in the STO forum. No way I'm purchasing that game. Boring combat, AND RMT to unlock playable races? Forget it.
How is it the companies fault if you don't want to do any basic research before you purchase the game?
I can tell you why they do this.
Making an MMORPG is complicated as hell.
A company gets a budget, and the lead developer says, I have this great idea. Here it is, all laid out. cool huh? And everyone says, yea, that is cool. How much?
I can do that for 40 million dollars!
Ok, let's get started.
3 or 4 years later about half the "cool" stuff is in the game, and the developers have now spent 50 million dollars.
At which point someone says, uh, guys, you're over budget by 10 mill. Time to release.
And they go, well, gee, it took longer than we thought, and some of those cool things turned out to be pretty hard. Can we have another 10 mill?
And realizing the developers will do this until they spend a Billion dollars, the investors go, no, we're releasing. Hope we can make our money back.
Ta da! Another pos release.
They don't do it on purpose. They just think the can accomplish more than they really can, and they run out of money.
Do you think that just because they don't do it on purpose the customer is any less screwed over? If people truly wouldn't stand for this trend they wouldn't do it. End of story.
Yes, MMO development is a sordid affair. So what. Companies over promise and under deliver. Who should be blamed then?
Us the customers?
Sounds like you're blaming people for playing a game you don't like.
Some people are gonna like it, and play it, and pay for it. Some won't.
If you like it buy it, if you don't like it dont' buy it.
The company isn't screwing you in any way that I can tell.
You can find out what the game like before you buy. You can read reviews and read posts from the players.
What more do you want?
How on Earth could you be screwed over?
I went and read the posts in the STO forum. No way I'm purchasing that game. Boring combat, AND RMT to unlock playable races? Forget it.
How is it the companies fault if you don't want to do any basic research before you purchase the game?
I can tell you why they do this.
Making an MMORPG is complicated as hell.
A company gets a budget, and the lead developer says, I have this great idea. Here it is, all laid out. cool huh? And everyone says, yea, that is cool. How much?
I can do that for 40 million dollars!
Ok, let's get started.
3 or 4 years later about half the "cool" stuff is in the game, and the developers have now spent 50 million dollars.
At which point someone says, uh, guys, you're over budget by 10 mill. Time to release.
And they go, well, gee, it took longer than we thought, and some of those cool things turned out to be pretty hard. Can we have another 10 mill?
And realizing the developers will do this until they spend a Billion dollars, the investors go, no, we're releasing. Hope we can make our money back.
Ta da! Another pos release.
They don't do it on purpose. They just think the can accomplish more than they really can, and they run out of money.
yes but when is it that a company has to stop and think if the game is boring as hell and a total rehash of another game with a different skin that maybe we should stop pouring money into it
and if the customers complain enough it will get the company to rethink what it is they are making and try to make it better but more and more companies want more money with less content
so whats next we pay for the box and game and have to pay to get anything the game is playing an mmo
log in screen $50
make a character $10
run around mindlessly grabbing quests and kill enough mobs to cover half of Europe
priceless
realizing the scam for what it is
totally worth it
So again, who ultimately decides whether or not its worth spending money over particular features of the game? That's right the customers and this is what balances out any company. In your extreme example, if the $50 was worth logging into the game, the customers would decide whether or not the company would get their money and same with creating the character. However, companies know that people generally won't do this so guess what? It'll never happen. It's not like the company is taking your credit card out of your wallet and forcing you to buy something, no, its entirely left up to the customer to decide whether what the company is doing is either "right" or "wrong"? Remember, their best interest is to get inside everyone's pockets (this is the goal of every company), but its best to get inside while being friends and not enemies so thats where the mutual relationship lies between business and customer and this is really just basic business 101 type stuff. Think some people get a little over their heads when it comes to this RMT practice.
Hey Bob. That was a nice rant you have there. I don't want you to think that all MMOs do this. I have been learning a lot about what people are complaining about, but I have to admit that I haven't experienced any of these complaints first hand. When I play Ryzom I never encounter incomplete game adjustments/patches and because it is pay to play there are no items to pay a "premium" for. Perhaps what we need to do is tell these MMOs to model themselves after the high-end MMOs that are getting it right.
www.ryzom.com
I think probably the only people who want to watch you get screwed are the company's network marketters. Some fans might want you to pay for more content in their game by getting scammed, but in my experience, these players are in the minority. I've only actually come across two people like this in all my years of online gaming.
I simply don't play--or pay for--any MMOs that have a crappy business model, bad gameplay, or poor customer service. Yeah, slim pickings these days lol, but I'm okay with that.
I can still find online fun without logging into someone's broken, unfinished money pit.
and people wonder why pirates exist
How on Earth could you be screwed over?
I went and read the posts in the STO forum. No way I'm purchasing that game. Boring combat, AND RMT to unlock playable races? Forget it.
How is it the companies fault if you don't want to do any basic research before you purchase the game?
I can tell you why they do this.
Making an MMORPG is complicated as hell.
A company gets a budget, and the lead developer says, I have this great idea. Here it is, all laid out. cool huh? And everyone says, yea, that is cool. How much?
I can do that for 40 million dollars!
Ok, let's get started.
3 or 4 years later about half the "cool" stuff is in the game, and the developers have now spent 50 million dollars.
At which point someone says, uh, guys, you're over budget by 10 mill. Time to release.
And they go, well, gee, it took longer than we thought, and some of those cool things turned out to be pretty hard. Can we have another 10 mill?
And realizing the developers will do this until they spend a Billion dollars, the investors go, no, we're releasing. Hope we can make our money back.
Ta da! Another pos release.
They don't do it on purpose. They just think the can accomplish more than they really can, and they run out of money.
Actually some of them do it on purpose (others just suck at staying on target). Here's a link to the training that tells them how to develop an online game apparently for the sole purpose of screwing you over in the cash shop:
http://www.slideshare.net/amyjokim/virtual-goods-why-how-they-work
Enjoy...
Yes and I guess those Fans that scream "GO BACK TO WOW"
feel screwed right?
Yes and I guess those Fans that scream "GO BACK TO WOW"
feel screwed right?
we are not living in a police state, people has the right to be as imbecile and moronic as they wish, and throw their money down the drain if thats what turns them on.
Don't preorder, don't play at launch, wait for the reviews. If you don't like a MMO then walk, that is the only way these companies are going to wake up.
Yes and I guess those Fans that scream "GO BACK TO WOW"
feel screwed right?
we are not living in a police state, people has the right to be as imbecile and moronic as they wish, and throw their money down the drain if thats what turns them on.
We don't live in a pure free market economy either. Businesses are not free to do whatever they wish to make money. Deception and fraud are not acceptable, and what some MMO developers have been starting to do is approaching these things.
that and saying something to others about your experience and get them to do the same word of mouth means more then ppl think it do if enough ppl think something sucks it will get changed or dropped and ppl want to forget that one annoying voice can be alot more powerful than a thousand pretty ones something like that anyway
If a game has scope, is trying to do something new or different I can forgive it having teething troubles.....if its a basic run of the mill game then it really has to be technically sound and filled with enough mechanical or conceptual variety to justify release.
Studios traditionally released an mmo early because the market demanded it before all the elements could be included.... today some cynical studios look back and see the leeway afforded these games and use it to gather income on the unfinished product. Its up to the player to decide the reasoning and respond accordingly....the latter is a practice that is really a form of abuse and needs to be recognised as such imo, but how can we be sure?
Vote with your wallet. That's really all there is to it. As long as there are so many players desperate enough to preorder anything coming out the pipe, the publishers know they can bank on it, without having to put much effort into it. If gamers would just have some patience and wait a month or two after release to see what the critics say and whatnot, the industry would be in better shape in my opinion.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.