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Small World? How big exactly?
Gyrus
Member UncommonPosts: 2,413
For those that have been on these forums a while you may remember that occationally we have a discussion about 'world size'?
Well, I have attempted to measure the world size of several MMOs
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/2591865#2591865
And since STO is being called 'small' and 'boxed in' I thought it might be time to actually see?
Would some of you like to supply some real data on this game? (I can't - I never subscribe to new MMOs - who needs the chaos of the first month :P )
This is what you need:
A stopwatch.
An active account
Patience
Method:
Take a basic character in a basic ship (in other words - no speed buffs!) and time (in seconds) how long it takes to move from one point to another 'East' to 'West' and then repeat 'North' to 'South'.
This post explains how i did this for two other on line games including one with a Travel Map.
Based on what I have read about STO the 'Sector Space' would be equivalent to PotBS's travel Map.
You can also measure an instance or two in this way if you are really keen - but the important thing here is to be fair (as I was with WWIIoL) and only measure the developed part of the game.
If the instances allow you to fly on forever(?) that does not make the game endless - if there is no content for you to discover.
Notes:
*Basic character is the default character at new character creation. Unbuffed by skills, abilities or equipment. Preferably human if possible.
**In games where you must Level Up to reach new areas then it is the basic character for that area you should use.
*** Standard Pace: At a run (since this is the default mode for most MMOs). Not at a sprint.
In games using vessels this is to be at maximum cruising speed.
For those that disagree with the principle of using time as a measure: That's fine - but don't bother to tell me how it's "wrong" unless you can come up with a better way that works for all MMOs please.
Remember - you method has to work for games as diverse as EvE, PotBS, WWIIoL, WoW, Free Realms... whatever.
Edit: The World Size thread related to CO
Nothing says irony like spelling ideot wrong.
Comments
Can't realy compire the travel map of potbs to the one in startrek as the one in potbs is persistent and have a effect on other players e.g i can attack a player on the travel map in potbs or i can try to attack a port which effects other players can't do that in sto.
the one in startrek is basicly to get from point a to b. if your going to compire map sizes i guess your best bet would be to a take a social planet in sto and compire it to a game which also has a area which is only deisgned for social events. and if your got to compire it to potbs then to compire a pvp map size in sto to one in potbs.
Sto will have a much bigger travel map than potbs though.
This is an interesting question. PoTBS has a persistent, global map. You can sail from one end to the other with no instancing. You will see ships as you get closer, and islands/ports as you get closer. To land on an island/port, or to engage an enemy ship, you will be placed into an instance.
Perhaps one way to ask this is: how far can you go in STO and keep seeing new stuff, people, etc, WITHOUT instancing? Once you hit a loading screen, time is up.
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2024: 47 years on the Net.
Nothing says irony like spelling ideot wrong.
Nothing says irony like spelling ideot wrong.
Sorry, I am not playing the game, the beta was enough for me. I may try that in Vanguard, but that world is huge, probably take an hour to cross it. Ryzom is also a good game to try this with, but you would never make it to the other side alive
No instancing in those games.
If sector space is truly as large as the PoTBS travel map, and you can seamlessly travel as far, still seeing new islands/objects/ports/cities/planets/etc with no instancing, then that is not too bad IMHO. PoTBS was considered too small though, by many.
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2024: 47 years on the Net.
I'd say it takes 5-6 minutes to travel from the end of one sector block to the other end. And the overall map is about.... 12 sectors or so wide and a little less high, but not symmetrically (As in: its not a square/rectangle). Most sector blocks are made up of 3 sectors. So, going based purely off of memory and estimations, Id say its about 20 minutes from one side of the galaxy map to the other. Just guessing -- haven't timed it yet. I tried googleing for a map pic, to no luck
So I may be completely befuddled. Please correct, if anyone knows other.
-Akku
Isn't this the same as Sector Space on STO?
Nope as you can't attack players in sector space in sto klingons can't even enter fed sector space. sector space in sto is just moving from one system to a dif system i would compire it to like fallout 2 map travel but in fallout 2 you get pulled in to combat now and again in sto you get the option to avoid it.
Plus i know the battles are instanced in potbs but the map travel is not unlike sto and the whole map is spit up in to sectors in sto which is then spit in to instances, in potbs if you are on the map then anyone can see you who is also on the map.
I like what you are trying to do just trying to match it up to the same type of game so it has more meaning
This one is simple... How big is the world?
Its a single woman's closet in a studio apartment...and in this closet is a lot of shoe boxes.
(The shoe boxes represent the instances for those of you in Rio Linda)
This is Indisputable..
So to clear things up a bit, the PoTBS travel map is one large map with everyone and everything on it together. You will see all the NPC and PC ships, and all the islands/ports/objects, and everyone else sees exactly the same. You do not port from one end to the other, or go through any portals, or have any loading screens. It is one big map; instancing occurs when you engage something.
Is that how STO space works? One big space map with everyone and everything in it together?
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2024: 47 years on the Net.
This answer is the most useful so far.
So, what is needed is the dimensions of a 'sector block' (or maybe all of them) in terms of time to cross.
You really need a stopwatch for this though... games are very deceiving when it comes to estimating times.
For example when I measured the dimensions of the Canada area in Champions Online I was surprised to find the area was only 8min x 8min on foot. It seemed much bigger than that.
Edit: More on time estimations and why you need to actaully time it.
Nothing says irony like spelling ideot wrong.
Someone else might explain it better, but essentially take the idea of your big PoTBS travel map. Now chop it up into a dozen or more fairly small "boxes." Each box has a number of 'systems' hovering there, which take you to a ship zone (you usually will not zone into these unless your mission takes you there). When you reach the edge of a box, you get a loading screen and you are now in an adjacent 'box.'
It can feel like you have more loading screen time than actual travel time when getting to a destination.
Someone else might explain it better, but essentially take the idea of your big PoTBS travel map. Now chop it up into a dozen or more fairly small "boxes." Each box has a number of 'systems' hovering there, which take you to a ship zone (you usually will not zone into these unless your mission takes you there). When you reach the edge of a box, you get a loading screen and you are now in an adjacent 'box.'
It can feel like you have more loading screen time than actual travel time when getting to a destination.
That's really exaggerated. Loading the zones takes under 10 seconds usually, crossing a sector map takes about 5 minutes.
Plus you can't really compare the world size because you would have to add all the (social) ground instances which are also fairly big.
That's really exaggerated. Loading the zones takes under 10 seconds usually, crossing a sector map takes about 5 minutes.
Plus you can't really compare the world size because you would have to add all the (social) ground instances which are also fairly big.
"about 5 minutes"... did you time this?
Seriously, games are very deceptive with regards to time (fun games can compress time and boring games can extend time.. just like life really).
Most people can't sit still for 60 seconds. 5 minutes of travel in an MMO is a long time too.
Could someone please confirm these times with an actual stopwatch?
Nothing says irony like spelling ideot wrong.
That's really exaggerated. Loading the zones takes under 10 seconds usually, crossing a sector map takes about 5 minutes.
Plus you can't really compare the world size because you would have to add all the (social) ground instances which are also fairly big.
"about 5 minutes"... did you time this?
Seriously, games are very deceptive with regards to time (fun games can compress time and boring games can extend time.. just like life really).
Most people can't sit still for 60 seconds. 5 minutes of travel in an MMO is a long time too.
Could someone please confirm these times with an actual stopwatch?
Sirius Sector Block from the 'northern' border to the 'southern' border. 4 minutes, 13 seconds.
That's not quite 5 minutes but comparing it to about 10 seconds of loading time while zoning is still exaggerating.
M
Someone else might explain it better, but essentially take the idea of your big PoTBS travel map. Now chop it up into a dozen or more fairly small "boxes." Each box has a number of 'systems' hovering there, which take you to a ship zone (you usually will not zone into these unless your mission takes you there). When you reach the edge of a box, you get a loading screen and you are now in an adjacent 'box.'
It can feel like you have more loading screen time than actual travel time when getting to a destination.
Thanks! At the risk of derailing this thread, when you come to the edge of one zone, and are about to go into the next zone, do you see any ships or objects in the next zone? If there was a ship right at the edge of the next zone, he would supposedly be very close to you. Can you see him? Or only when you port into his zone?
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2024: 47 years on the Net.
Someone else might explain it better, but essentially take the idea of your big PoTBS travel map. Now chop it up into a dozen or more fairly small "boxes." Each box has a number of 'systems' hovering there, which take you to a ship zone (you usually will not zone into these unless your mission takes you there). When you reach the edge of a box, you get a loading screen and you are now in an adjacent 'box.'
It can feel like you have more loading screen time than actual travel time when getting to a destination.
Thanks! At the risk of derailing this thread, when you come to the edge of one zone, and are about to go into the next zone, do you see any ships or objects in the next zone? If there was a ship right at the edge of the next zone, he would supposedly be very close to you. Can you see him? Or only when you port into his zone?
Er no? That's the concept of zones. You don't see anything behind the zone border, which isn't any different from zones in Aion, Eq2, LotRO or AoC...
The whole 'sector space' isn't meant to be an 'in space' experience. It's basically a 3-D map where systems and contacts are huge, you see the main travelling routes and have an underlying grid. So the whole concept isn't meant to be for looks, just for travelling. They could have put the whole thing on a 2D-map with little dots on it, would probably prevent the zoning. But well, I honestly don't care, sector space is just to get from A to B. The game is happening in the countless instances...
M
If you want to count instances in then most likely Diablo II is biggest. You know, auto generated instances and stuff.
You can't really do it because some sectors have more areas than others, some have only space areas, some have multiple space areas and ground areas. One area point on the map may only lead to a standard planet map, while another may lead to 4 maps. Unless you have someone go through every single instance and quest, your measurement could be off as much as 50% or so.
You could fairly easily measure how big sector space is, but that's just the travel map and has nothing to do with how big the actual "world" the game takes place in is.
What your proposing is like opening up the map in World of Warcraft and measuring it as if it somehow showed how big the game was.
While this is a fair criticism of the system (and is true of games like PotBS and even DDO as well) do you have a better way?
Because developer quotes of 'square miles' are meaningless too.
For a few games I have used 'estimates' and hopefully players who disagree will provide better data to 'prove me wrong'?
Ultimately though the size of the world is how long it takes to get from point A to point B... and since the instances are missions shouldn't you be measuring the distance to their 'front door'?
Nothing says irony like spelling ideot wrong.
Thank you... that is the sort of data that is needed.
Nothing says irony like spelling ideot wrong.
I think the games "bigness" is from how many different instances there are, not the actual distance traveled on the space map. As I haven't done that much yet, I really couldn't answer that either. To me the instances should have a different feel from others I have tried, or that would reduce the "bigness" feel.
If all blocks were lined up and there were no loading screen I worked it out to take 14 mins 35 seconds to traverse as the crow flys at Warp 8.11 - this doesn't include clusters or seperate world system maps.
At that speed each indivual block takes 21 seconds to cross. Thats the blocks that consist of 4 squares by 4 squares.
Awesome info!
So it would be 14min 35 sec x ?? (need to have a figure here to work out an area - unless the game is linear?)
Nothing says irony like spelling ideot wrong.