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General: Legendary Failures of Legend, Part Two
Stradden
Managing EditorMember CommonPosts: 6,696
Last week, Scott Jennings used his column this week to remind us of "some of the most spectacular MMORPG flameouts." This week, he takes a step back and looks at how those failures were preventable.
"Scope": Knowing When To Say When
The root cause of most MMO failures is something which not only isn't very obvious to people outside of development, but, in the eyes of MMO players, can be a failure in and of itself.
In project development, it's called "scope", which means what you're aiming to accomplish with your project - the design, for lack of a better word - and part of the triad of what is needed to bring a project to completion (scope, time and budget). All three of these are possible points of failure - but two of them, time and budget, are painfully obvious when you run out of either. If you run out of time, you either ship too early (which can be fatal in and of itself) or you cancel your project. If you run out of money, well, that's about the most concrete way to fail possible - if you can't make payroll and rent, you are done.
Cheers,
Jon Wood
Managing Editor
MMORPG.com
Comments
Excellent article!
The last portion, particularly, about developers actually playing their game and enjoying it (even at the early stages) as well as keeping their ego's in check seems vitally important. I think you or someone else posted on their blog about how the TR team particularly didn't enjoy what they played (even when it was pretty much feature complete) and we all know how that ended.. Or maybe it was a comment I read somewhere else.
And as for ego, well.. Warhammer. That is all.
Funny, sad, and true crack at EA. Very piffy.
This article should be required reading for Kerry Fraser-Robinson of RedBedlam shame, self-proclaimed as "one of the world's leading authorities on virtual worlds and virtual economics." Never has a lead developer had such a delusional misunderstanding of his own limited abilities. So much so that most MMORPG players never even knew a historically accurate sandbox world named Roma Victor ever existed...
"You are not the god of your game world, you are a customer service professional, and if you want to keep those customers contributing to your paycheck, you had damned well better act like it."
Ironically enough, KFR's in-game persona was in fact Jupiter, and the other developers also appeared as Roman deities when logged in.
What surprises me is how much people harp on Customer Service for MMOs.
I've been playing MMOs for 13 years, always playing at least one and sometimes playing more then one. I've used CS 3 times in that entire span of 13 years.
They were fairly trivial issues really. First was in Asheron's Call you can inscribe items, someone had inscribed an item I bought with some pretty foul things. In the beginning of AC there was no way to get rid of an inscription, so I asked CS if they could do anything and a guy showed up 2 minutes later and erased it for me. I could of played forever with that being there and been fine.
Second was when I wanted to go back to UO and couldn't figure out what I used for a username and password back then, if they hadn't responded or been able to figure it out for me then I would of just made a new guy (I made a new guy anyways) on a new account. But they were able to find it for me and I played again for a couple months.
Lastly was in WoW when they got rid of a quest in a patch (but left in the guy who started you on the quest, nice). This quest was for rogues and you had to pick a chest, in that chest was supposed to be an item that you used to finish the quest. So I picked the chest a couple times before going to Thottbot to see if I was doing something wrong and found out the quest was removed. Problem being was you got a negative spell on you when you picked the chest that lasted an insane amount of time, the main way of removing this spell was to finish the quest, which you couldn't do. Dying didn't remove it either. So I asked CS and a couple hours later the spell magically disappeared.
Basically I just don't see what all these people need CS for, I could of been fine if none of those issues were resolved by CS. What is it people are doing that they are all up in arms about needing more CS? A bugged quest? Ok do something else until they fix it. A lost item? Get a new one. Someone bothering you in chat? Squelch them. There are really only a couple issues CS really needs to be there for, like having a character stuck in the world and no auto tool to get you out of it. As time goes on programmers have worked in more and more little tools for players to help themselves.
I also think there is a tough line to balance between making parts of the game more fun for the customers, and keeping the game balanced and true to the original design. We've had enough examples of companies who have changed the game from the initial design which in turn made them lose a ton of players. Those who are enjoying the game tend to not speak up or post on forums. Also all players have different ideas of fun. And to top it all off, what could be really fun for players could also cause them to get bored with the game much faster which then results in a lot of lost money. It certainly isn't as simple as just making the game fun.
Excellent article, especially the section on "scope". Anyone who has been to this site before, even once, has probably heard "WoW clone" at one time or another. We're all screaming for innovation, but companies who try usually end up failing... because of the reasons you listed. It's not good to let the genre stagnate, but it's also not good to demand so many new concepts in one MMO that it doesn't deliver. Gradual progress - taking what works, adding your own twist and perhaps a new feature - is the way to go. Not building a revolutionary, "guaranteed awesome!!!" MMO from the ground up.
Yes, that means a lot of "WoW clones" (or perhaps "UO clones" if more sandboxes start rolling out).
Yes, an excellent article overall. But I feel a little let down with this second part. I wanted more details in the answers. Design details. But I guess that would be wrong, keeping it general was, after all, what you were doing.
So, you're making a game yourself? Cool. I'll be watching.
But I have to say that over the last few years you've seemed to have moved more into the levels/zones/"I'll make your fun for you" thinking. So I'm not overly excited.
Once upon a time....
I work in a different industry, but the article points out a lot of things that we struggle with as well except the fun part. Scope creep especially is a killer. Its tricky balancing what you got to have in a project with what you want to have.
some devs need to stay the hell away from their product.
Jack Emmerat played City of Heroes, what happened next?
GLOBAL DEFENSE NERF
TANKER DEFENSE NERF
CONTROLER CONTROL NERF
All cause it didn't play like Mario Brothers.
Great article and an important one.
We need more of these so that players understand that making a game is more than having a cool idea and not understanding why they are the only people who know how a game should be and why didn't anyone else think of it.
As far as some developers missing the boat, there is nothing we can do about that.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Hmmmm this thing could have been written to slap Mythic and Warhammer upside the head. Oh wait a minute, that is where Jennings sold out to.
The article is spot on but coming from a sell out, well, it makes it just a little funny.
Also, Tabula Rasa. Who in the office is gonna tell the great and powerful General British his game is lacking? Apparently, nobody...
Yeah.. Sell-out... I mean, he could have been working for EA, which is EVERY MMO developer's dream, considering their long and illustrious track record with MMO's.
You say Sell-out, I say one of the few people at Mythic with a brain.
Matt Frior was another one - He left to work for Zennimax (Possibly Elder Scrolls MMO), then there's Walter "Copper" Yarbrough (Turbine). Can you imagine if Sanya Weathers had to be the community rep for WAR, towing the EA party line?
Get real. EA is where MMO's (and their developers) go to die. More like Mark Jacobs sold out Mythic for Warhammer.. Might have made sense at the time, but look how it ended.. Even Mark got fired.
One of the smartest things Scott ever did was leave. How you can see it as otherwise is baffling.
Doesn't Jennings work for NC soft?
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Well, while Garriott deserves a bit of the blame, I don't think it was all on his shoulders. He was the name on the product.
As you no doubt remember, TR was a much more different game when he started working on it. But then it became a collaboration when NCSoft bought Destination Games between a Korean development house and a Western developer. It probably got bounced back and forth between developers and management like a pipe on the set of a Cheech and Chong movie.
Honestly, I'd be curious to know precisely what kind of an influence RG had on the game. It's clear he had a part in the story, but the mechanics of a shooter/rpg hybrid never set right with me that this mechanic would be something he'd be behind.
Guess we'll never know.
Am I wrong or SWTOR could be the first trying it with HeroEngine? Curious to see how it'll turn out.
It's indie, sandbox and free! http://www.golemizer.com
He does - He was higher there and started development on an unannounced title, then was fired.. And then rehired again.
But this was all after leaving Mythic before (or when) it was bought out by EA.
Think about the budget, staff, and experience Blizzard has. Think about all the time, money and effort that went into making WoW. Think about the customer service, the website, the content - everything that makes WoW what it is.
Now think about what it would take for a new team to just duplicate what WoW is.
It would be close to impossible to pull off successfully. There's just too much to do. And that doesn't even touch new ideas or innovation.
Finally think about all the above the next time you're about to label a new game a "WoW clone". That's pretty high praise, and few games deserve it.
In the beginning, there was nothing, then God said, "Let there be light." And there as light. There was still nothing, but you could see it a lot better.
EXACTLY my thoughts on reading this article.
Excellent article, Scott...truly superb.
Now...if enough of the buffoons on this site that are constantly whining about the "exorbitant cost" of playing MMORPGs, the "oh so terrible 15 dollars a month ON TOP of the initial cost of the client (for shame) and RMT (even RMT that is done in the most positive way possible) would just READ THIS and try to comprehend the magnitude of what they're playing....you, Scott, single-handedly, will have done the genre a real favor. (Don't you love run on sentences?)
Players always think they're the ultimate authorities on games. And well...to a degree...why shouldn't we think that? After all, we've been playing them for longer than most of our adult children have been ALIVE. However, many fail to realize that they are not programmers, designers, marketers, quality control experts, production assistants, graphic artists, personnel managers, server technicians and IT specialists, customer service representatives, etc., etc., etc. While a player may know what is personally FUN to them, they cannot possibly have a realistic grasp of the scope of what goes on in making and maintaining an MMO, unless that's what they do professionally, and I would wager that the majority of whining we see on these forums....isn't done by professionals.
The opinions and views of the customers are indeed important. They're vital. But when the customers don't have any real concept of the vast amount of work that goes into the product and begin denying that companies have a right to make money for all this work...they really just begin to look stupid, at least to me. The whole RMT thing....has brought out some of the most embarrassingly naive comments and complaints that I think I've ever witnessed on a form.
Do I WANT to pay 50 dollars a month instead of 15? No, not particularly. I'm your typical customer. I want the most I can get from my dollar. But to deny the company making the product that I enjoy, the right to OFFER (offer, not force) little "extras" to attempt to make some more money without raising the monthly fees for those that either can't afford, or don't WANT to pay more.....I think that's just ridiculous presumption on the part of players.
I would apologize for bringing RMT into the topic at hand, but frankly, I don't think it can be ignored in light of the article you wrote, Scott. There seems to be very little appreciation any more for the companies that are entertaining us. Now I can understand if someone isn't entertained....then you just stop paying. That seems simple enough to me. But the incessant complaining about game companies trying to make an extra buck being a "baaaaaaaaaad thing," has really started to get on my last nerve around here.
NOTE: And before the RMT flames begin, let me add the classic disclaimer: This is my OPINION. And it's what this article made me think about.
I've read, and continue to read, plenty of opinions in opposition to it, and no....none of them are going to change my mind, and I don't expect to change anyone elses mind either. If you don't think the company that makes the MMO you're playing DESERVES the money you spend....quit fucking spending it. Don't be a hypocrite. To continue to play a game that you find entertaining, and then deny the creators the funding and yes...income even BEYOND "just maintenance" funding...is ridiculous.
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
Bravo!!! I agree with you totally on everything you have mentioned here, from beginning to end, and especially the part about all the complaints about the various companies that make the MMOs. This read was as good and entertaining as the topic.
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
You hit the nail on the head with it's all about the fun.
The wheels come off on these games in testing. I have done a lot of betas, and what should happen is that when you do a quest or any other game content, there ought be an in game window where you are asked was this fun? How could it be improved? Etc. But most of the time there isn't.
It doesn't take much of an extra effort to make a quest that has some memorable feature to it then one that is the same old slop. Take a standard delivery quest - take x to y. What if on the way you get attacked and some npc steals the item and runs off. Now you have to track them down to get it back. Or maybe the item you are delivering transforms along the way, and that adds a new complexity. Or maybe the person you take it to is an imposter who has killed the intended recipient, and you have to figure that out from some clues. Maybe the item has a spirit trapped inside who offers you incentives not to deliver it, and you have to choose.
I could spitball ideas all day, as could most players, but for some reason the people who make these games slip into a comfort zone where merely take x to y is fine by them.
How about when they interview people. ask them in the interview, tell me 10 ways a delivery quest could be something fun and different? Then hire whoever actually has an imagination.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
Bravo!!! I agree with you totally on everything you have mentioned here, from beginning to end, and especially the part about all the complaints about the various companies that make the MMOs. This read was as good and entertaining as the topic.
I have to agree... well said to Scott and Girlgeek. Both hit the nail squarely on the head. Bravo.
"If we don't attack them, they will attack us first. So we'd better retaliate before they have a chance to strike"
The problem we face now is that big huge AAA - MMO catastrophes have led us to Cheap F2P models with grinding leveling and completely repeated content....
where is the fun in that?
So the industry went one way....failed...and now has done a complete 180 to make money off cheap badly designed games.
Is there no middle ground??
As some one that specializes in project controls and process management, I fully appreciate your analysis.
The elements you mention, Scope, Time and Money, as you say are the project management trifecta. IE, you cannot change one with out affecting to the other two.
However, what you describe is a pattern of failure that has plaqued software developement for the last 20 years or more.
You could be the most influential person in the world in regards to software development planning, tell every key decision maker what to do to be better and nothing would change. Why? Because the culture of software development is not rooted in project mangement, it is rooted in management by Chaos.
For every software product you see go to market, there are at least 10 that never made it. Then at least 80% of software that makes it to market, is a failure or obsolete with in a year.
The only way to make better software is to spend more time up front, before anyone even considers writting code, defining the scope and goals of the product. That is not to say anything is cast in stone, only that when chagne occurs it has to be done with the expectation that changes impact the trifecta of Scope, Time and Money.
Unfortunately corporate leadership in the world is mosty stupid when it comes to planning and technology, and they make poliitical top down decisions with zero consern for the realities of the details. I call the the "Easy Button Syndrome". The attitude that anything can be done with software, automated, and takes no more time.
It is unfortunate that so many of the general public of the world are unable to make decisions that can truly influence a culture of greed and low quality. The only reall variable in the success of a project, IMO, are the people that are running the project and making the decisions. If a project fails the only point of true failure are the people making the decisions.
Sounds like you have material for your next article.
Yeah.. Sell-out... I mean, he could have been working for EA, which is EVERY MMO developer's dream, considering their long and illustrious track record with MMO's.
You say Sell-out, I say one of the few people at Mythic with a brain.
Matt Frior was another one - He left to work for Zennimax (Possibly Elder Scrolls MMO), then there's Walter "Copper" Yarbrough (Turbine). Can you imagine if Sanya Weathers had to be the community rep for WAR, towing the EA party line?
Get real. EA is where MMO's (and their developers) go to die. More like Mark Jacobs sold out Mythic for Warhammer.. Might have made sense at the time, but look how it ended.. Even Mark got fired.
One of the smartest things Scott ever did was leave. How you can see it as otherwise is baffling.
Absolutely. TOR is destined to fail because BioWare is part of EA.
Perfectly logical to me!
Yeah.. Sell-out... I mean, he could have been working for EA, which is EVERY MMO developer's dream, considering their long and illustrious track record with MMO's.
You say Sell-out, I say one of the few people at Mythic with a brain.
Matt Frior was another one - He left to work for Zennimax (Possibly Elder Scrolls MMO), then there's Walter "Copper" Yarbrough (Turbine). Can you imagine if Sanya Weathers had to be the community rep for WAR, towing the EA party line?
Get real. EA is where MMO's (and their developers) go to die. More like Mark Jacobs sold out Mythic for Warhammer.. Might have made sense at the time, but look how it ended.. Even Mark got fired.
One of the smartest things Scott ever did was leave. How you can see it as otherwise is baffling.
This!
Bioware was a good company 10 years ago now is just another cash cow for EA. Unfortunatly they are lots of xbox and pc weak minded players that they are praising them like the next mesia, so overall they dont give a frack. They release a lot of games with chessy graphics and presentation and with a weak gameplay, and they sell milions. What a surprise these days? People are dumb, uninformed, patetic, and that hurts all of us. Since if they get away it the first time, you can bet your ass they will do it the 10th time and they are doing it. They are not the only one but it hurts to see them sell out like that. Oh well