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Might be comming to xbox360
xkin
Member Posts: 2
destructoid.com posted yesterday. Who knows if its true or not tho.
Though only officially announced for the PlayStation 3, fresh Intel has arrived indicating that Final Fantasy XIV is also in development for the Xbox 360 and PC. The information comes by way of a cheeky Square Enix employee who accidentally let the word slip on his LinkedIn resume.
I first read it @ tomshardware
Comments
I own a PS3 but I sure hope the game gets released for people who own an X360, preferably supporting multi-platform servers. How cool would it be to have a universe of millions of players across the world playing together by PC, PS3 and X360?
Last time I checked the offical site it said only Pc and PS3 will be getting it. If they did start for 360 then that's very stupid I think, because it will limit the game, and it will delay it's release.
XBox 360 version will probably be release later, after some months of the official PS3/PC release due to some sort of timed exclusivity agreement. Much like whats going to happen with Mass Effect 2, that was released as x360 and pc only but there are already rumours and pieces of software within the x360 version that show that it will release soon for the ps3.
They better not include PvP or PS3 and X360 users will be taking the term "console wars" to a whole new level xD
They already do this in FFXI online, apart from PS2, not 3.
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They already do this in FFXI online, apart from PS2, not 3.
I know, and thats preciselly why Ive spoken of it.
I hope they maintain this system. If not with Xbox360 (in case of a non release) at least between the PS3 and the PC
I dont see many MS gamers buying a japanese game. We saw the shitty sales for Bayonetta on the 360. PS3 sold more even though that version sucked.
MS gamers are all for shooters. I dont think they care for RPGs.
I thought Bayonetta was a hack'n'slash like Devil may Care 4 etc? Not a RPG at all. Even so, it has sold 300,000 copies so far, and it's still kind of new.
But on RPGs on the 360...
Fallout 3 (2.9 million), Oblivion (2.9 million), Mass Effect 1 (2.1 million) & 2 (sales not confirmed yet), Fable 2 (3.4 million), Dragon Age (1.2 million)...
Also, Assasins Creed 2 has done 3.1 million, which is obviously more a RPG then a shooter.
As for Asian RPGs, they tend to have a lower profile in the West, but that certainly isnt true of FF. They still do very ok though; Star Ocean, a little known game here, managed 500,000, Lost Odyssey did 800,000 copies, and The last Remanent 600,000... all decent numbers considering the lack of hype and public awareness.
Maybe RPGs are not as big as the top shooters, sure, but thats a genre thing not a platform thing and they are big enough to warrant FF14 a port for sure. Anyone can see that. RPGs do very respectable numbers on the 360, and FF13 and 14 both will be big. If MS didnt expect FF14 to be a huge cash cow they wouldnt even be trying to force SE to use their Gold service and grab 5-10% of the sub.
Also, RPGs tend to sell a lot better on the 360 then on the PS3 as a general rule, Fallout 3 achieving 1.9 million on the PS3 vs the 360's 2.9 for example, so your point all in all becomes pretty nonsensical. If anything, the 360 IS the RPGer's console of choice.
I thought Bayonetta was a hack'n'slash like Devil may Care 4 etc? Not a RPG at all. Even so, it has sold 300,000 copies so far, and it's still kind of new.
But on RPGs on the 360...
Fallout 3 (2.9 million), Oblivion (2.9 million), Mass Effect 1 (2.1 million) & 2 (sales not confirmed yet), Fable 2 (3.4 million), Dragon Age (1.2 million)...
Also, Assasins Creed 2 has done 3.1 million, which is obviously more a RPG then a shooter.
As for Asian RPGs, they tend to have a lower profile in the West, but that certainly isnt true of FF. They still do very ok though; Star Ocean, a little known game here, managed 500,000, Lost Odyssey did 800,000 copies, and The last Remanent 600,000... all decent numbers considering the lack of hype and public awareness.
Maybe RPGs are not as big as the top shooters, sure, but thats a genre thing not a platform thing and they are big enough to warrant FF14 a port for sure. Anyone can see that. RPGs do very respectable numbers on the 360, and FF13 and 14 both will be big. If MS didnt expect FF14 to be a huge cash cow they wouldnt even be trying to force SE to use their Gold service and grab 5-10% of the sub.
Also, RPGs tend to sell a lot better on the 360 then on the PS3 as a general rule, Fallout 3 achieving 1.9 million on the PS3 vs the 360's 2.9 for example, so your point all in all becomes pretty nonsensical. If anything, the 360 IS the RPGer's console of choice.
Im saying that people with 360s just dont play Japanese made games. Yeah bayonetta isnt a RPG but it was designed for the 360 and looks and plays better but sells better on the PS3 as its a Japanese made console. I haven't seen good Multiplatform JRPGS or anything sell super good on the xbox as they do on Nintendo systems and Playstation systems. and most of those games you said was Western made RPGs. Im talking more of JRPGs. They sell like crap on the xbox.
I thought Bayonetta was a hack'n'slash like Devil may Care 4 etc? Not a RPG at all. Even so, it has sold 300,000 copies so far, and it's still kind of new.
But on RPGs on the 360...
Fallout 3 (2.9 million), Oblivion (2.9 million), Mass Effect 1 (2.1 million) & 2 (sales not confirmed yet), Fable 2 (3.4 million), Dragon Age (1.2 million)...
Also, Assasins Creed 2 has done 3.1 million, which is obviously more a RPG then a shooter.
As for Asian RPGs, they tend to have a lower profile in the West, but that certainly isnt true of FF. They still do very ok though; Star Ocean, a little known game here, managed 500,000, Lost Odyssey did 800,000 copies, and The last Remanent 600,000... all decent numbers considering the lack of hype and public awareness.
Maybe RPGs are not as big as the top shooters, sure, but thats a genre thing not a platform thing and they are big enough to warrant FF14 a port for sure. Anyone can see that. RPGs do very respectable numbers on the 360, and FF13 and 14 both will be big. If MS didnt expect FF14 to be a huge cash cow they wouldnt even be trying to force SE to use their Gold service and grab 5-10% of the sub.
Also, RPGs tend to sell a lot better on the 360 then on the PS3 as a general rule, Fallout 3 achieving 1.9 million on the PS3 vs the 360's 2.9 for example, so your point all in all becomes pretty nonsensical. If anything, the 360 IS the RPGer's console of choice.
Im saying that people with 360s just dont play Japanese made games. Yeah bayonetta isnt a RPG but it was designed for the 360 and looks and plays better but sells better on the PS3 as its a Japanese made console. I haven't seen good Multiplatform JRPGS or anything sell super good on the xbox as they do on Nintendo systems and Playstation systems. and most of those games you said was Western made RPGs. Im talking more of JRPGs. They sell like crap on the xbox.
It's still weird to me that you are using a single non RPG game like Bayonetta to demonstrate a point of how well RPGs sell on the 360... Not only are you trying to use one game to prove a rule about an entire genre, you are not using one even in the right genre as your example.
Which PS3/ Wii JRPGs are you talking about that have sold 'super good' globally? What kind of numbers are you talking about?
I did talk about JRPGs before, but your statement was 'MS gamers are all for shooters. I dont think they care for RPGs.' and thats just plainly wrong. I detailed those Western RPGs to show this as a fact, and that the 360 is very very RPG friendly.
MS gets that JRPGs are important to attacking the eastern market, look at what Star Ocean 4 achieved for them.( http://news.vgchartz.com/news.php?id=3052 ). That title, and Last Remnant, another SE game, havent even had PS3 launches yet. Last Remnent might never have. It is proven that if the 360 has the titles that East market wants, they sell.
On the PS3 vs 360 thing though for JRPGs, well again your pretty off track... for instance Valkyria Chronicles (a PS3 exclusive jrpg) and Lost Odyssey (a 360 exclusive jrpg) are extremely close in sales ( http://www.vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?id=95117 ) and both sell very well for the genre at around 800,000 copies each. Very healthy numbers for RPGs, epecially for games with low profiles, something that FF13 and 14 will not have.
Now, I get that VGchartz can be off sometimes, but as a general indicator I think everything proves your assumption is wrong and based off a false perception. JRPGs simply dont 'sell like crap' on the 360. Globally there isnt much difference between JRPG sales between the two consoles, and Western RPGs on the 360 generally stomp the PS3 in sales.
All in all, I think it's fair to say that we will be seeing 14 on the 360, especially considering the low PC > 360 port costs and the potentiol popularity/ profit of the FF franchise on it.
Considering that Project Rapture has been heavily linked to the 360 since it's announcement, I would be extremely suprised if it hasnt already been made and is just waiting on the MS Live Gold deal, and probably a exclusivity deal with Sony, to come around to launch in full glory. Don't forget that SE own Eidos (Hitman, Tomb Raider, Thief) these days... they have the muscle and resource to hold it back for now until they get the deal that they want. FF is a killer app, and they know it.
With it's high profile branding FF14 (and its more casual friendly online play) could easily reach 2,000,000+ sales on the 360, and no dev thats in the slightest bit sane will ignore that.
I think I am still going to buy this for the pc because I just cant see myself playing a mmo on the console and not having voice functionality so I can communicate with other players while grouping together. When i played FFXI our linkshell used teamspeak and everything was alot easier for everyone.
UHmmmm maybe I need a news update, but how on earth will it being on the Xbox360 limit the game anymore then on the PS3?
(And if you say the PS3 has more powerful hardware just about everyone in here will laugh at you....because it really doesn't, and anyone that knows anything about computers knows this)
(And yes I do own a 360, but I also own a PS3. and yes I do like my 360 better, way better games, way better interface, way better controller)
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UHmmmm maybe I need a news update, but how on earth will it being on the Xbox360 limit the game anymore then on the PS3?
(And if you say the PS3 has more powerful hardware just about everyone in here will laugh at you....because it really doesn't, and anyone that knows anything about computers knows this)
(And yes I do own a 360, but I also own a PS3. and yes I do like my 360 better, way better games, way better interface, way better controller)
(Just a guess, but I think they mean along the lines of how the 360 is reaching it full potential while the PS3 is still at about 40-50% of what it could achieve. Or so industry experts say.)
(And with how FFXI is where all systems have the same product the PS2 held back what could be possible with the game and if the 360 is the weakest of the systems 3-4 years down the line then it could limit the expansion of FFXIV. Not saying it would or wouldn't, but that is what I read that as)
(Also worth noting that Microsoft has said they will be discontinuing support for orignal xbox -- aka bye bye Halo 2 -- soon which I believe is one of the hold backs of the XBL system which is one of the complaints from Square ... which also could help contribute to the skuddle between the two companies over FFXI on the 360 endparenthesis
I'm not very technically minded as to specs and whatever, though from what i do know I wouldnt argue that the PS3 is the better machine specs wise then the 360 (as a 360 owner that is), but help me out..?
What update in 3-4 years time could make expansions a problem for the 360, if it is ok right now?
Do you mean maybe a graphics update? If so, that confuses me (in my ltd knowledge) somewhat... Surely each graphical update would be machine specific, so the 360 wouldnt hold any other machine back, assuming it's true that it would? From what I read the PS3 and the PC versions will use different textures etc anyhow graphically, so it's not like they are all dependant on each other in any way?
Or do you suggest content wise? Again, if so why would this be? Surely any additional content expansion would just be stored on the 360's already ample (for this purpose) HD?
Why do you think that the 360 could hold other formats back or limit them specifically, again assuming it would?
I'm not very technically minded as to specs and whatever, though from what i do know I wouldnt argue that the PS3 is the better machine specs wise then the 360 (as a 360 owner that is), but help me out..?
What update in 3-4 years time could make expansions a problem for the 360, if it is ok right now?
Do you mean maybe a graphics update? If so, that confuses me (in my ltd knowledge) somewhat... Surely each graphical update would be machine specific, so the 360 wouldnt hold any other machine back, assuming it's true that it would? From what I read the PS3 and the PC versions will use different textures etc anyhow graphically, so it's not like they are all dependant on each other in any way?
Or do you suggest content wise? Again, if so why would this be? Surely any additional content expansion would just be stored on the 360's already ample (for this purpose) HD?
Why do you think that the 360 could hold other formats back or limit them specifically, again assuming it would?
With FFXI Square-Enix basically didn't upgrade the game because they were supporting the PS2. Mostly storage and graphics limitations were put on the game because the PS2 couldn't handle it and the company didn't want one platform to be superior over another. They really wanted to same experience for someone playing on the PC and they do and the PS2. That is why the UI for all systems are the same despite the possibility of greater mouse usage on the PC version. The inclusion of the Mog Satchel is one of those big things that came about because of the PS2's limitations. They could add extra "bags" but they couldn't expand the bag they had anymore.
Not saying that the 360 is inferior or wouldn't be good for FFXIV. In fact I think you should get this game on as many platforms as possible so even more people can enjoy it. The hardware of the 360 is reaching its peak. HDD (which is the right abbriviation for a hard drive disc ... ) space doesn't enter into it you can always add more and more file storage. But graphics and processing are going to be hitting the wall soon. The PS3 on the other hand had Blu-Ray standard so the game can graphically at that quality and from what the experts say that the PS3 isn't near its maximum output.
With that in mind the 360 would be the weakest of the three platforms (assuming the PS3 still far from maxed and the PC is constantly upgradable) so if they keep the standards they set with FFXI the 360 would be the lowest common denominator and thus would work like the PS2 did in limited what they can do.
A good example of limations that exist today on the 360 is the amount of friends you can have on XLB (or so I hear). This limitation is there because Microsoft is still supporting the original XBox and its xbox live games. This can be expanded easily as soon as MS dropped support for the old system which it has recently announced it is going to do.
I'm not very technically minded as to specs and whatever, though from what i do know I wouldnt argue that the PS3 is the better machine specs wise then the 360 (as a 360 owner that is), but help me out..?
What update in 3-4 years time could make expansions a problem for the 360, if it is ok right now?
Do you mean maybe a graphics update? If so, that confuses me (in my ltd knowledge) somewhat... Surely each graphical update would be machine specific, so the 360 wouldnt hold any other machine back, assuming it's true that it would? From what I read the PS3 and the PC versions will use different textures etc anyhow graphically, so it's not like they are all dependant on each other in any way?
Or do you suggest content wise? Again, if so why would this be? Surely any additional content expansion would just be stored on the 360's already ample (for this purpose) HD?
Why do you think that the 360 could hold other formats back or limit them specifically, again assuming it would?
With FFXI Square-Enix basically didn't upgrade the game because they were supporting the PS2. Mostly storage and graphics limitations were put on the game because the PS2 couldn't handle it and the company didn't want one platform to be superior over another. They really wanted to same experience for someone playing on the PC and they do and the PS2. That is why the UI for all systems are the same despite the possibility of greater mouse usage on the PC version. The inclusion of the Mog Satchel is one of those big things that came about because of the PS2's limitations. They could add extra "bags" but they couldn't expand the bag they had anymore.
Not saying that the 360 is inferior or wouldn't be good for FFXIV. In fact I think you should get this game on as many platforms as possible so even more people can enjoy it. The hardware of the 360 is reaching its peak. HDD (which is the right abbriviation for a hard drive disc ... ) space doesn't enter into it you can always add more and more file storage. But graphics and processing are going to be hitting the wall soon. The PS3 on the other hand had Blu-Ray standard so the game can graphically at that quality and from what the experts say that the PS3 isn't near its maximum output.
With that in mind the 360 would be the weakest of the three platforms (assuming the PS3 still far from maxed and the PC is constantly upgradable) so if they keep the standards they set with FFXI the 360 would be the lowest common denominator and thus would work like the PS2 did in limited what they can do.
A good example of limations that exist today on the 360 is the amount of friends you can have on XLB (or so I hear). This limitation is there because Microsoft is still supporting the original XBox and its xbox live games. This can be expanded easily as soon as MS dropped support for the old system which it has recently announced it is going to do.
Ahh ok, thanks for the expanded version, though I am still not sure I get why the 360 maybe topping out graphically stops the PC or PS3 devloping... like I say, the PS3 and PC use different textures etc anyhow already for this game, so I would say that independent graphical development is going to happen anyhow on each format?
I can't see the PC going that far ahead of the 360 either in a few years... sure, the best (or better then average) PC is better then the 360 even now, but the vast majority of users have pretty poor machines and run most games scaled right down anyhow. I can't see that changing tbh.
Honestly interested in your views on this though, not looking for a flame fight or anything. Nice to have a real conversation on these boards for a change
I can't believe you actually picked me up for missing a D off HDD though :P
Well, it's already known the international version of XIII is visually degraded when compared to the PS3 version. The only valid explanation for this is because of the limitations of the medium, the DVD disc.
This, however, shouldn't pose a problem for XIV on the 360. Like any MMO, it should purely run off the hard drive and not the disc medium, otherwise it would be load times and lag galore. I have no doubt in my mind the 360 is capable of running XIV, and would happy to see it included in the viable list of XIV platforms, but it'll come down to how M$ plays their cards.
The Secret World is coming out on the 360... I can't see why XIV can't.
I hope the 360 fanbois dont get it. They already got mass effect 2 let them keep playing that.
I'm not very technically minded as to specs and whatever, though from what i do know I wouldnt argue that the PS3 is the better machine specs wise then the 360 (as a 360 owner that is), but help me out..?
What update in 3-4 years time could make expansions a problem for the 360, if it is ok right now?
Do you mean maybe a graphics update? If so, that confuses me (in my ltd knowledge) somewhat... Surely each graphical update would be machine specific, so the 360 wouldnt hold any other machine back, assuming it's true that it would? From what I read the PS3 and the PC versions will use different textures etc anyhow graphically, so it's not like they are all dependant on each other in any way?
Or do you suggest content wise? Again, if so why would this be? Surely any additional content expansion would just be stored on the 360's already ample (for this purpose) HD?
Why do you think that the 360 could hold other formats back or limit them specifically, again assuming it would?
With FFXI Square-Enix basically didn't upgrade the game because they were supporting the PS2. Mostly storage and graphics limitations were put on the game because the PS2 couldn't handle it and the company didn't want one platform to be superior over another. They really wanted to same experience for someone playing on the PC and they do and the PS2. That is why the UI for all systems are the same despite the possibility of greater mouse usage on the PC version. The inclusion of the Mog Satchel is one of those big things that came about because of the PS2's limitations. They could add extra "bags" but they couldn't expand the bag they had anymore.
Not saying that the 360 is inferior or wouldn't be good for FFXIV. In fact I think you should get this game on as many platforms as possible so even more people can enjoy it. The hardware of the 360 is reaching its peak. HDD (which is the right abbriviation for a hard drive disc ... ) space doesn't enter into it you can always add more and more file storage. But graphics and processing are going to be hitting the wall soon. The PS3 on the other hand had Blu-Ray standard so the game can graphically at that quality and from what the experts say that the PS3 isn't near its maximum output.
With that in mind the 360 would be the weakest of the three platforms (assuming the PS3 still far from maxed and the PC is constantly upgradable) so if they keep the standards they set with FFXI the 360 would be the lowest common denominator and thus would work like the PS2 did in limited what they can do.
A good example of limations that exist today on the 360 is the amount of friends you can have on XLB (or so I hear). This limitation is there because Microsoft is still supporting the original XBox and its xbox live games. This can be expanded easily as soon as MS dropped support for the old system which it has recently announced it is going to do.
Ahh ok, thanks for the expanded version, though I am still not sure I get why the 360 maybe topping out graphically stops the PC or PS3 devloping... like I say, the PS3 and PC use different textures etc anyhow already for this game, so I would say that independent graphical development is going to happen anyhow on each format?
I can't see the PC going that far ahead of the 360 either in a few years... sure, the best (or better then average) PC is better then the 360 even now, but the vast majority of users have pretty poor machines and run most games scaled right down anyhow. I can't see that changing tbh.
Honestly interested in your views on this though, not looking for a flame fight or anything. Nice to have a real conversation on these boards for a change
I can't believe you actually picked me up for missing a D off HDD though :P
REALLY ????? Are you retarded ???? Do you live in a cave?????? I have seen bottom end pc's blow xbox out of the water-GTFO
I'm not very technically minded as to specs and whatever, though from what i do know I wouldnt argue that the PS3 is the better machine specs wise then the 360 (as a 360 owner that is), but help me out..?
What update in 3-4 years time could make expansions a problem for the 360, if it is ok right now?
Do you mean maybe a graphics update? If so, that confuses me (in my ltd knowledge) somewhat... Surely each graphical update would be machine specific, so the 360 wouldnt hold any other machine back, assuming it's true that it would? From what I read the PS3 and the PC versions will use different textures etc anyhow graphically, so it's not like they are all dependant on each other in any way?
Or do you suggest content wise? Again, if so why would this be? Surely any additional content expansion would just be stored on the 360's already ample (for this purpose) HD?
Why do you think that the 360 could hold other formats back or limit them specifically, again assuming it would?
With FFXI Square-Enix basically didn't upgrade the game because they were supporting the PS2. Mostly storage and graphics limitations were put on the game because the PS2 couldn't handle it and the company didn't want one platform to be superior over another. They really wanted to same experience for someone playing on the PC and they do and the PS2. That is why the UI for all systems are the same despite the possibility of greater mouse usage on the PC version. The inclusion of the Mog Satchel is one of those big things that came about because of the PS2's limitations. They could add extra "bags" but they couldn't expand the bag they had anymore.
Not saying that the 360 is inferior or wouldn't be good for FFXIV. In fact I think you should get this game on as many platforms as possible so even more people can enjoy it. The hardware of the 360 is reaching its peak. HDD (which is the right abbriviation for a hard drive disc ... ) space doesn't enter into it you can always add more and more file storage. But graphics and processing are going to be hitting the wall soon. The PS3 on the other hand had Blu-Ray standard so the game can graphically at that quality and from what the experts say that the PS3 isn't near its maximum output.
With that in mind the 360 would be the weakest of the three platforms (assuming the PS3 still far from maxed and the PC is constantly upgradable) so if they keep the standards they set with FFXI the 360 would be the lowest common denominator and thus would work like the PS2 did in limited what they can do.
A good example of limations that exist today on the 360 is the amount of friends you can have on XLB (or so I hear). This limitation is there because Microsoft is still supporting the original XBox and its xbox live games. This can be expanded easily as soon as MS dropped support for the old system which it has recently announced it is going to do.
Ahh ok, thanks for the expanded version, though I am still not sure I get why the 360 maybe topping out graphically stops the PC or PS3 devloping... like I say, the PS3 and PC use different textures etc anyhow already for this game, so I would say that independent graphical development is going to happen anyhow on each format?
I can't see the PC going that far ahead of the 360 either in a few years... sure, the best (or better then average) PC is better then the 360 even now, but the vast majority of users have pretty poor machines and run most games scaled right down anyhow. I can't see that changing tbh.
Honestly interested in your views on this though, not looking for a flame fight or anything. Nice to have a real conversation on these boards for a change
I can't believe you actually picked me up for missing a D off HDD though :P
REALLY ????? Are you retarded ???? Do you live in a cave?????? I have seen bottom end pc's blow xbox out of the water-GTFO
lol
Is this how you talk to people in RL, or just hiding behind a monitor?
Internet tough guys
Evolution will eventually handle all of this.
Me...I have my popcorn and a great seat to watch it all happen.
God I love the origin of species.
Xbox 360...Pc...PS3....heheh...you all will eventually be plant food....heheh
Youth is wasted on the young.
It's better to lurk in forums and be thought a fool...than to endlessly "Quote" and remove all doubts.
we all know Pc is the best then PS3 then Xbox 360. =P
I don't even own a ps3 but I have a xbox 360 just because of the rpg's they have over PS3.
That's quickly becoming a past thing, especially if you mean JRPGs. Most of the JRPGs on the 360 have been or are in the process of being brought to the PS3. The big thing is waiting and seeing if they do an international release of the game...
/kills Namco Bandai
Bastards refuse to bring the PS3 version of Tales of Vesperia to NA and EU. And they wonder why they lost millions last year?...
M$ doesn't do anything unless they are making money off their users while the PC/PS3 version you're basically paying the same amount as a regular MMO.
I am curious how this will play out because M$ will have to try to play nice this time around to get a shot at this sort of title. They would have to change the LIVE Policy which M$ is RELUCTANT on doing because they love getting more money off their users whenever possible.
This can sway back and forth with opinions. Let it ride.
Well they already did have an MMO policy, it was stated when the system first came out that MMOs would be acessable through free silver acounts, which is true hence FFXI on XBOX360. You also have to realize that FFXIV is being developed for PC, which most every PC is on a Microsoft OS.
Of course this is not to say MS is not greedy, (they are) but like most bussiness they are in it for the money, not just to be nice people. There is a reason why downloads are so fast, and why games tend to be a heck of alot more stable on X360 then PS3 and thats becuase MS uses their own servers, where as PS3 lets the companys do it, hence why you pay for XBL and not PSN. Its not like Sony is all butterflys and buttercups. They nickel and dime you to death on PS home, make you pay for backgrounds, avatar pictures ect. and are also looking into a pay monthly system like XBL, but it won't be as good as XBLs.
They both want to make money and just offer diffrent experiences for different prices, you get some stuff here, and not over there. I just think MS is being a bit over the top greedy in this perticular case, and i can bet they will or already have givin into SE's demands.