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Eberron setting=D&D p2p fail?
triprunner
Member Posts: 169
played shortly after launch then had to leave it to finish school (made it), loved the oldschool RPG feeling to it. and it's f2p now! even better...
thing is: do you think the p2p version failed because of putting it in Eberron setting and not in Forgotten Realms?
and if so, why did Turbine and WoTC go for Eberron instead a great and popular FR?
Comments
This has been discussed so many times already.
WoTC's only world that they created is Eberron and it was their flagship. Whether the game failed or not, had nothing to do with Eberron. Forgotten Realms built around a single town with a few dozens of dungeons below wouldn't be too popular either.
REALITY CHECK
DDO failed so hard at launch because Ken Troop was the lead developer, Troop has zero clue on how to build a MMO, and spend 3/4-ths of the development cycle playing Pen and paper D&D in the break room at Turbines offices and laser tag in their hallways ( I know this because I both interviewed for the project and personally know two the original team members) After Troop presented to the world the broken steaming pile that was city of Doors ddo Turbine gave him a ridiculous golden parachute and sent him back to WOTC where he then drove the D&D virtual game table into the ground. Troop was the single worst thing to happen to Turbine since David Bowman.
DDO has come a long way, the current devlopment team actually has made the game bearable to play though it still is a whole shitload of missed potential.
I enjoyed the game from its early beginnings, and I think Ken Troop was at least funny in the interviews he did like: "Pull! Inc! Taunt! Nuke! Heal! Rest! Ding! Grats! Repeat!" where he explained how different is their melee combat from this sort of "traditionally exceedingly boring "melee combat most of the MMO's have.
REALITY CHECK
The game had no semblance of D&D, and still has heavy issues that the current team is trying to work around because of it, they had a huge budget and was told to take their time...basically they were given an opportunity that few dev teams get and under Troops unsteady hand it was all pissed away.
And there is a difference between clown and comedian.
As someone who's played D&D since the mid 70's, I can say with certainty that the setting has zero bearing (for me) on the success of this game. Given the exact same mechanics, I would not like/dislike the game one iota more if the city/world had a different name.
Same situation and same conclusion here. Old school ADnD player, and if this game was in a differnt world with a different name it wouldn't affect what I like or dislike about it.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
I was never overly bothered with Forgotten Realms, been done to death in my opinion, and I do like Warforged, so nope it would probably have lessened it for me. Although if they had kept WF then setting wouldn't have mattered much either way.
While the setting is a factor least for me it is not the overwhelming reason this game did not fair well as p2p. The game was just a mess when it launched so for one it lost a lot of people due to how buggy it was. Plus, there is something to be said about how boxed in everything is. Granted now there are at least open area zones you can explore in so at least it has changed somewhat. Plus, there was a severe lack of content at release.
Granted it has been years at this point but it is amazing what they have done over time for this game. I was extremely disappointed in this game at launch. While I still would have enjoyed an open world themed D&D game I must say they have made vast improvements in this game compared to what it used to be. Granted probably not to the level or speed some would have liked that have been around since the beginning.
The irony is now that they have added the content and made the changes they have I can actually see paying a sub for vip to this game while when it launched paying $15 a month plus purchasing the game for what was available seemed like a ripoff to me. It may have displeased some people where they've gone with this game since then, but I have to say I'm rather impressed.
This has become one of the better mmos available at this point and that's saying something considering what a mess it was a t launch.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
A friend of mine actually bought a brand new rig to play DDO, maxed out (leaving WoW) and left one month after launch due to the utter lack of content and some rubberbanding issues. (He didn't came back to WoW either since then)
I know for sure he shall never come back, but doesn't even waste his time bashing the game.
Although would the game be more seamless in a Dragon Lance or Forgotten Realm plane, that would be another story. Thing is the marketing department and the licence obliged Turbine to use Eberron setting.
As a final note I can say I had much more the feeling of living and epic Dragons in WoW than in DDO wiht their big lizzards, sad.
Planescape would have been a perfect setting for a city with portals.
"City of doors" sums up the reason nr 1 the game failed. It felt like playing pen and paper alone...
But i they had a massive seamless world to explore with the dungdeons they do have but scattered around for ppl to explore by themselfs of in team it would be a blast. Best dungdeons ever with all the twists and turns. To bad it was not enough.
I might be in a minority, but I actually find large seamless worlds very dull. It always seems to me just time wasting content, all bun and no meat. I would much rather have intense instance based content for a small group. Probably why I found DDO refreshingly different (that and being able to dodge projectiles one of my pet hates in other MMOs) from what feels to me really bland content (lots of it generally) in every other MMO I have tried.
Different tastes I guess.
This has been discussed so many times already.
WoTC's only world that they created is Eberron and it was their flagship. Whether the game failed or not, had nothing to do with Eberron. Forgotten Realms built around a single town with a few dozens of dungeons below wouldn't be too popular either.
You are talking about the Greyhawk world which is castle Greyhawk with it's nearby town and surrounding area but it got expanded over time.
Forgotten Realms is an entire planet with at least three continents iirc.
DDO failed because it wasn't worth playing.
Will it be worth playing for free?
Nah, probably not.
What they should have done was digitalize the pen and paper version of the game so that you have one person that act as a GM and puts together a module with content for the others to play using some kind of built in voice communication system thats free to use.
I really think that this is the future of Dungeons & Dragons.
All those memories will be lost in time, like tears in the rain.
I have no idea.
All I know is the game is bloody fantastic atm and doing well financially.
Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP
This has been discussed so many times already.
WoTC's only world that they created is Eberron and it was their flagship. Whether the game failed or not, had nothing to do with Eberron. Forgotten Realms built around a single town with a few dozens of dungeons below wouldn't be too popular either.
You are talking about the Greyhawk world which is castle Greyhawk with it's nearby town and surrounding area but it got expanded over time.
Forgotten Realms is an entire planet with at least three continents iirc.
DDO failed because it wasn't worth playing.
Will it be worth playing for free?
Nah, probably not.
What they should have done was digitalize the pen and paper version of the game so that you have one person that act as a GM and puts together a module with content for the others to play using some kind of built in voice communication system thats free to use.
I really think that this is the future of Dungeons & Dragons.
What I think he was saying was that any D&D setting that was set up like DDO would fail to bring out the realm it was set in. As in Forgotten Realms set up like Eberron would not have felt like Forgotten Realms since it would be set up like Stormreach is now. In order to bring out Forgotten Realms right you would have needed an open world game.
As for digitize the PnP game, as far as I know been donw more than once and has not been a winner yet. I do not see that as the future of D&D, DDO and if there is DDO2 are more likely the future.
DDO is worth playing, it was worth it before F2P and is worth it now.
This has been discussed so many times already.
WoTC's only world that they created is Eberron and it was their flagship. Whether the game failed or not, had nothing to do with Eberron. Forgotten Realms built around a single town with a few dozens of dungeons below wouldn't be too popular either.
You are talking about the Greyhawk world which is castle Greyhawk with it's nearby town and surrounding area but it got expanded over time.
Forgotten Realms is an entire planet with at least three continents iirc.
DDO failed because it wasn't worth playing.
Will it be worth playing for free?
Nah, probably not.
What they should have done was digitalize the pen and paper version of the game so that you have one person that act as a GM and puts together a module with content for the others to play using some kind of built in voice communication system thats free to use.
I really think that this is the future of Dungeons & Dragons.
What I think he was saying was that any D&D setting that was set up like DDO would fail to bring out the realm it was set in. As in Forgotten Realms set up like Eberron would not have felt like Forgotten Realms since it would be set up like Stormreach is now. In order to bring out Forgotten Realms right you would have needed an open world game.
As for digitize the PnP game, as far as I know been donw more than once and has not been a winner yet. I do not see that as the future of D&D, DDO and if there is DDO2 are more likely the future.
DDO is worth playing, it was worth it before F2P and is worth it now.
I never felt that I was in a world playing DDO so no.
All those memories will be lost in time, like tears in the rain.
The game failed originally because it was forced grouping, 99% played in instances, and offering a playstyle that favoured dipping in and out of the game once or twice a week or month with a few friends rather than supporting a full MMO commitment. As such it was crying out at launch to be free to play and was never going to attract as many subscriptions as the IP would warrant.
Over the succeeding years they've opened up the soloability, created a few more open world areas and made it free to play. End result - a commercial success. Shame they didn't launch it like that.
Eberron is by far the worst DnD setting. Forgotten realms would have been sweet or even the older DnD worlds. Why they chose Eberron I don't think we will ever know but i think we can all agree it was a poor decision.
MMO wish list:
-Changeable worlds
-Solid non level based game
-Sharks with lasers attached to their heads
I must dmit that I hated the Eberron setting in the beginning but I have grown to like it more and more since its something differnt from all the generic fantasy we have theese days. I think there were alot of reason why DDO failed but Eberron being so different was probably a big factor since people usually dont like what is different and unfamilliar.
Would love to see a nw game set in Planescape though
If WoW = The Beatles
and WAR = Led Zeppelin
Then LotrO = Pink Floyd
IMO, yes.
Forgotten Realms would have been significantly more successful, again IMO.
Reason being it was more widely known and very well liked where as Eberron was fairly new and not very well liked. I disagree with the sentiment that Forgotten Realms wouldn't have done any better for those reasons alone. When a lot of old school PnP D&D players I know heard DDO was going to be set in Eberron, they were immediately turned off from the game. Forgotten Realms would have garned a much more favorable response and generated far more interest and positive buzz IMO.
Einherjar_LC says: WTB the true successor to UO or Asheron's Call pst!
From what I read Turbine had no choice in the setting. Eberron was WotC's new setting and they were trying to push it hard. They wanted extra publicity for Eberron to sell more books so they required Turbine to use Eberron. Maybe they also wanted to see how well a D&D mmo based on a lesser known setting would do before allowing one based on Forgotten Realms, who knows?
Anyway, Turbine had to go with it. I seriously doubt Turbine would purposely choose a virtually unknown, unfamiliar, setting rather than the most well known, popular setting that FR is.
One of the benefits of Eberron though is that Turbine was able to make up a lot of their own backgrounds/designs/stories. If they had done FR they would have very little wiggle room to be creative since everything in FR is basically written in stone by decades of novels, comics, official campaigns, etc. Turbine would have basically had to copy/paste everything over instead of make up anything new.
The other side though is so many people have read so much about Forgotten Realms that they have preconceived notions on how it all should look. Then if Turbine does not match that people would leave any way. Would FR have generated more buzz? I agree chances are yes it would have, but in the long run they had more flexibility with a lesser known and lesser used world. Not to mention Turbine seemed to have no choice in the matter as WOTC made that choice for them.
I like the world and game Turbine has built and while I would love to play in a FR world, I know I myself have a vision of what most of the places would look like, and matching that is unlikely.
I like the baroque nature of Eberron. The fact that it's a high magic setting, where magic is used everywhere, even to clean toilets and sweep the streets, fits well with an MMO. I like how the world in Eberron is on the verge of an industrial revolution. As for storyline and politics, DDO's setting for some reason reminds me of the interwar years between WWI & WWII. It's like hostilities are just waiting to come to the surface again and bring out some form of cataclysm.
I like the Eberron setting in DDO. Maybe in the future then can add different realms like Forgotten Realms, Dragon lance, Gray hawk etc. etc. to the existing game. A good form of transportation could be a spell jammer ship. They seem to have those in DDO (or at least what looks to be like them).
Doubtful, if anyone is given the rights by Atari to do a Forgotten Realms game at this point it will probably be Cryptic. As sad as that is based on their last two outings
Doesn't Atari own the rights to Greyhawke too?
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.