When Cataclysm comes out I will resub. I've gone and come back twice. I could see going back for another year or so if Cataclysm is fun. The fact is most mmo's today are boring, lonely, uninspired, hardware hogs, etc. WOW has succeeded because it's a good game, and second because other mmo dev teams have failed to rise to the challenge and make a better game.
Haters can hate all they want. It's pointless hate though. So now they don't have 11 million they may have 10 million or 9 million. It makes no difference really. WOW is and was a gaming phenomenon and will most likely continue to be so for some time because they do many things right.
In my 4 years playing WoW, when each new expansion is released new players and veterans come back and see what is available. The game is about to change a lot soon with Cataclysm, which is something that new players will enjoy and an increase of Veteran players coming back for a period of time like they usually do. I know this because players who I keep on my friend list and have not logged in forever suddenly start coming back when it's expansion time.
I think Blizzard had intentionally made a game that once you get involved and enjoy what you are doing, most other games feel poorly crafted. It leaves sort of a nostalgia feeling that makes you bring yourself to reactivate your account. They know players will come back for a duration so they keep all your characters for you right where they left off.
Great game and I think the only game that could be the myth "WoW Killer" would be a sequel. SW:ToR will shave off numbers but it will still be a giant compared to the others.
I don't think any one game will "kill" WoW, except maybe for WoW itself. More likely you'll have several mmos that will chip away at WoW's subscription numbers. Be interesting to see what effect (if any) The Old Republic has on WoW.
I personally loved this part. Its pretty much how I've always felt about the game. I know vets who as you said jumped in because they loved Warcraft Lore and these days pretty much want to hang the entire staff at Blizzard for what they are doing to the Story. Personally I played WoW for a couple years because it was a fun MMO that did things... better than other's could manage.
At the moment Blizzard's greatest enemy is itself. It has to keep the game interesting in the face of all these new "WoW-Killers" who are able to bring really innovative ideas to the market. They have to do that while not alienating older players who might not like the changes. Which is impossible to do completely. So WoW might not always be the most popular MMO but the fact that they still make Blizzard more money than any other MMO could is saying something after about five years.
That being said Im scared TOR will hurt me like SWG did. Different team and I actually love Bioware but Im still reserved. Then there are games like TERA that are trying to combine this trend in shooters and action based gameplay with the more traditional RPG system. So it will be interesting to see what happens but I dont see Blizzard getting too upset anytime soon. Besides with Starcraft on the horizon they are about to make quite a bit of cash. So Im not too worried about Blizzard.
I wouldn't get carried away praising Blizz although they are due some kudos. WoW's continued success isn't only testament to their design but also the utter failure of their competition.
There's been several big names come along and fail in spectacular form which really should have rocked WoW if they had taken a slightly different path and had another 18 months in development. Case in point: Warhammer - disappointment of the decade for me.
Personally, I only put so much credence in subscription stats that aren't independently verified. I know from personal experience that EU WoW has slacked off since the heady years of 2005-2006. Is WoW still getting 11mill+ subs, well Blizzard says so so it must be right, right?
I don' think the competition had any utter failures. WoW's success came from some simple factors.
First, it had lower-end graphics allowing more people to be able to play it. A lot of other mmos out there go for higher quality graphics which shrink their potential customer base. EQ2 came out at the same time and SOE said (at that time) that no PC could play their game on max settings. That's what SOE was going for with their game, Blizzard went a different path.
Second, WoW came right off the heels of Warcraft 3. We had both Reign of Chaos (2002) and The Frozen Throne (2003) right after each other so to be able to jump right into the Warcraft universe was very appealing.
I don't think any one game will "kill" WoW, except maybe for WoW itself. More likely you'll have several mmos that will chip away at WoW's subscription numbers. Be interesting to see what effect (if any) The Old Republic has on WoW.
With utter failures I suppose I'm talking from my own personal perspective over expectations from games such as Age of Conan, Warhammer and Vanguard. 3 titles I was really looking forward to that went pffft instead of boom.
I totally agree on the entry specifications being a huge boost for them. Everyone with a PC can run WoW but more than that, they are building access to game systems into browsers now with things like armory and the auction house access coming shortly, showing that they see the importance of accessibility and keeping people involved. I think we will see them expand more in this direction when they reveal their next MMO, even with some elements creeping on to mobile phones in some way.
I think the Warcraft IP is what gave the game its legs to start with but it isn't what has sustained them and built it up to such dizzying heights. That was it just ticked all the right boxes for so many MMO players tired of Korean grind-fests and Everquest - it was the right game with the right systems at the right time. Word of mouth has done the rest to the point where it has become a self-sustaining phenomena. When a MMO makes headlines on the evening news and every gamer is aware of it then the marketting is basically looking after itself and becoming viral in nature.
I'm not sold on TOR being the heavy weight they are hoping it to be yet. EA is saying it expects 1 million subs with a possibility of 3 million. Yes it has the Star Wars IP, but is it actually any good surely that's the key to it? and it's just too soon to tell. and I'm definitely not sold on a MMO that has all the quests delivered with voice acting but I'm still keen to try it. Hopefully I will be surprised.
_________________________________________ You can walk the walk but can you talk the talk?
Although blizzard deserves their success I'm glad to hear it's stopped growing. It's high time for change and this is a good start. I just didn't think it would take this long to reach its crest. Damn. I hope the downhill doesn't take as many years as wow's climb.
How will the game content change as it diminishes I wonder? Obviously blizzard is sitting pretty with sc2 and diablo revenues about to come in.
Even if they manage in the coming years to outdo themselves with another addictive mmo game could it ever accomplish what wow did?
Although blizzard deserves their success I'm glad to hear it's stopped growing. It's high time for change and this is a good start. I just didn't think it would take this long to reach its crest. Damn. I hope the downhill doesn't take as many years as wow's climb.
How will the game content change as it diminishes I wonder? Obviously blizzard is sitting pretty with sc2 and diablo revenues about to come in.
Even if they manage in the coming years to outdo themselves with another addictive mmo game could it ever accomplish what wow did?
I would be glad to hear wow has stopped growing as a result of some other kick ass games releasing and offering comeptition into the market, but as far as I can tell that doesn't seem to be the case.
Seeing a massive decline in wow without an equal increase in other games doesn't really sound l ike it is doing the genre very much good imho.
Although blizzard deserves their success I'm glad to hear it's stopped growing. It's high time for change and this is a good start. I just didn't think it would take this long to reach its crest. Damn. I hope the downhill doesn't take as many years as wow's climb.
How will the game content change as it diminishes I wonder? Obviously blizzard is sitting pretty with sc2 and diablo revenues about to come in.
Even if they manage in the coming years to outdo themselves with another addictive mmo game could it ever accomplish what wow did?
I would be glad to hear wow has stopped growing as a result of some other kick ass games releasing and offering comeptition into the market, but as far as I can tell that doesn't seem to be the case.
Seeing a massive decline in wow without an equal increase in other games doesn't really sound l ike it is doing the genre very much good imho.
Agreed.
If WoW's subscription numbers start to tumble while other games out are really not gaining players, well, thats not a good sign for the genre as a whole.
But as for WoW hitting a plateu right now, its nothing big. Its mostly just bored players unsubbing while waiting for Cata to come out.
There are 3 types of people in the world. 1.) Those who make things happen 2.) Those who watch things happen 3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
Although blizzard deserves their success I'm glad to hear it's stopped growing. It's high time for change and this is a good start. I just didn't think it would take this long to reach its crest. Damn. I hope the downhill doesn't take as many years as wow's climb.
How will the game content change as it diminishes I wonder? Obviously blizzard is sitting pretty with sc2 and diablo revenues about to come in.
Even if they manage in the coming years to outdo themselves with another addictive mmo game could it ever accomplish what wow did?
I would be glad to hear wow has stopped growing as a result of some other kick ass games releasing and offering comeptition into the market, but as far as I can tell that doesn't seem to be the case.
Seeing a massive decline in wow without an equal increase in other games doesn't really sound l ike it is doing the genre very much good imho.
Wow is getting old and like you said, no one gave us a kick-ass game. I wished another game would've taken its place to but under the circumstance this is the next best thing. One, we shouldn't support bad games. Two, blizzard needs to get going on something else. An industry doesn't exist for the sake of itself. It's only purpose is to meet consumer demands. So with loss of players they can adapt and start meeting demands again or go bye bye.
Although blizzard deserves their success I'm glad to hear it's stopped growing. It's high time for change and this is a good start. I just didn't think it would take this long to reach its crest. Damn. I hope the downhill doesn't take as many years as wow's climb.
How will the game content change as it diminishes I wonder? Obviously blizzard is sitting pretty with sc2 and diablo revenues about to come in.
Even if they manage in the coming years to outdo themselves with another addictive mmo game could it ever accomplish what wow did?
I would be glad to hear wow has stopped growing as a result of some other kick ass games releasing and offering comeptition into the market, but as far as I can tell that doesn't seem to be the case.
Seeing a massive decline in wow without an equal increase in other games doesn't really sound l ike it is doing the genre very much good imho.
Wow is getting old and like you said, no one gave us a kick-ass game. I wished another game would take its place to but under the circumstance this is the next best thing. One, we shouldn't support bad games. Two, blizzard needs to get going on something else. An industry doesn't exist for the sake of itself. It's only purpose is to meet consumer demands so when it fails to do that than it should start meeting demands to justify its existence again or go bye bye.
Well they are currently working on a new MMO, and as usual they will keep it pretty quiet until they have something substatial to show.
As for other companies making MMOs, I wish they would just aim to make a good game and stop with all the artificial hype (hell players need to stop as well). The genre doesnt need a 'WoW Killer'. It just needs some really good, stable alternatives.
There are 3 types of people in the world. 1.) Those who make things happen 2.) Those who watch things happen 3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
Although blizzard deserves their success I'm glad to hear it's stopped growing. It's high time for change and this is a good start. I just didn't think it would take this long to reach its crest. Damn. I hope the downhill doesn't take as many years as wow's climb.
How will the game content change as it diminishes I wonder? Obviously blizzard is sitting pretty with sc2 and diablo revenues about to come in.
Even if they manage in the coming years to outdo themselves with another addictive mmo game could it ever accomplish what wow did?
I would be glad to hear wow has stopped growing as a result of some other kick ass games releasing and offering comeptition into the market, but as far as I can tell that doesn't seem to be the case.
Seeing a massive decline in wow without an equal increase in other games doesn't really sound l ike it is doing the genre very much good imho.
Agreed.
If WoW's subscription numbers start to tumble while other games out are really not gaining players, well, thats not a good sign for the genre as a whole.
But as for WoW hitting a plateu right now, its nothing big. Its mostly just bored players unsubbing while waiting for Cata to come out.
Most wowers were new to the genre, and after wow they quit it again. Nothing nobody would've anticipated.
If WoW's subscription numbers start to tumble while other games out are really not gaining players, well, thats not a good sign for the genre as a whole.
But as for WoW hitting a plateu right now, its nothing big. Its mostly just bored players unsubbing while waiting for Cata to come out.
Most wowers were new to the genre, and after wow they quit it again. Nothing nobody would've anticipated.
That too.
But you cant really blame them with most of the MMOs released post WoW.
Most of the games that came out after WoW were like a fireworks show that has been advertised as the greatest display of pyrotechnics ever created, only to find out that once you paid for the tickets and found a spot to sit down that it was really just some old dude with a bottle rocket and a boom box....
There are 3 types of people in the world. 1.) Those who make things happen 2.) Those who watch things happen 3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
Although blizzard deserves their success I'm glad to hear it's stopped growing. It's high time for change and this is a good start. I just didn't think it would take this long to reach its crest. Damn. I hope the downhill doesn't take as many years as wow's climb.
How will the game content change as it diminishes I wonder? Obviously blizzard is sitting pretty with sc2 and diablo revenues about to come in.
Even if they manage in the coming years to outdo themselves with another addictive mmo game could it ever accomplish what wow did?
I would be glad to hear wow has stopped growing as a result of some other kick ass games releasing and offering comeptition into the market, but as far as I can tell that doesn't seem to be the case.
Seeing a massive decline in wow without an equal increase in other games doesn't really sound l ike it is doing the genre very much good imho.
Wow is getting old and like you said, no one gave us a kick-ass game. I wished another game would take its place to but under the circumstance this is the next best thing. One, we shouldn't support bad games. Two, blizzard needs to get going on something else. An industry doesn't exist for the sake of itself. It's only purpose is to meet consumer demands so when it fails to do that than it should start meeting demands to justify its existence again or go bye bye.
Well they are currently working on a new MMO, and as usual they will keep it pretty quiet until they have something substatial to show.
As for other companies making MMOs, I wish they would just aim to make a good game and stop with all the artificial hype (hell players need to stop as well). The genre doesnt need a 'WoW Killer'. It just needs some really good, stable alternatives.
Right and the official announcment that subs are leveling out is a reminder that it's only a matter of time before they announce a new mmo. This is a good thing. I don't understand why anyone would just care about sub numbers for the "genre" given the current state of recent mmo's and the wow dinosaur unless they are coming from other than a player's perpective.
Right and the official announcment that subs are leveling out is a reminder that it's only a matter of time before they announce a new mmo. This is a good thing. I don't understand why anyone would just care about sub numbers for the "genre" given the current state of content.
They don't, it's basic human psychology. The game they have been playing since 2004 is finally winding down. It's called denial, and it's completely understandable. Who knows, if I was still playing the game maybe I'd be making similar posts.
Unfortunately no amount of hair/teeth pulling is going to stop this ship from sinking. It may be a slow sinking, but even Blizzard knew the day would eventually come. In all fairness we can't expect all of the fans to accept this fact gracefully.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
Sure it will be around for a long time, but now we actually know that WOW hasn't grown since 2008. One could wager that WOW will finally begin it's inevitable decline in the next couple of years. As WOW loses it monstrous grip on the industry, we will then have a much healthier environment for new MMOs. WOW has certainly had it's time. This is fantastic news.
Except, of course, that the next game to take WoW's place will be "A better WoW than WoW", just as WoW was "A better EQ than EQ."
So if you think the Next Big Thing is going to have harsh death penalties, full loot PVP, and a focus on 80 man raids that require 36 hours of constant keyboard attendance to complete.... think again.
The "next WoW" is likely to be something along the lines of "Farmville, but with elves."
(And, of course, WoW will be a looooong time dieing... consider that UO is still chugging along. You'll be able to log on and look for Mankrik's wife well into the 2010s.)
However, I expect 99% of the people reading this to take it as evidence that WoW will be cancelled in three months and we'll all be playing Darkfall or something before 2011.
Anyone who has played WoW these days knows that the old worlds are as dead as a doornail including Outland. There is no way 12 mill is squeezed into Lich King areas. Just face facts and releaze WoW is old, people are leaving and it is time for something new. WoW had its days but those days are long gone. It was a good run though!
Sure it will be around for a long time, but now we actually know that WOW hasn't grown since 2008. One could wager that WOW will finally begin it's inevitable decline in the next couple of years. As WOW loses it monstrous grip on the industry, we will then have a much healthier environment for new MMOs. WOW has certainly had it's time. This is fantastic news.
Except, of course, that the next game to take WoW's place will be "A better WoW than WoW", just as WoW was "A better EQ than EQ."
So if you think the Next Big Thing is going to have harsh death penalties, full loot PVP, and a focus on 80 man raids that require 36 hours of constant keyboard attendance to complete.... think again.
The "next WoW" is likely to be something along the lines of "Farmville, but with elves."
(And, of course, WoW will be a looooong time dieing... consider that UO is still chugging along. You'll be able to log on and look for Mankrik's wife well into the 2010s.)
However, I expect 99% of the people reading this to take it as evidence that WoW will be cancelled in three months and we'll all be playing Darkfall or something before 2011.
I don't expect anything bud, but you are certainly making some bold assumptions considering you are not psychic. This thread is about WOW and not about harsh death penalties or even Darkfall for that matter, so stay on topic.
I used to play and love WOW, and many of my friends still do. So I do take an active interest in this game. Is that ok with you?
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
I would love to know how much money Blizzard has brought in from this game so far, im sure someone is extremely wealthy by now
For some reason that sparked a memory of watching Ducktales where Uncle Scrooge goes swimming in his money room...
There are 3 types of people in the world. 1.) Those who make things happen 2.) Those who watch things happen 3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
Although blizzard deserves their success I'm glad to hear it's stopped growing. It's high time for change and this is a good start. I just didn't think it would take this long to reach its crest. Damn. I hope the downhill doesn't take as many years as wow's climb.
How will the game content change as it diminishes I wonder? Obviously blizzard is sitting pretty with sc2 and diablo revenues about to come in.
Even if they manage in the coming years to outdo themselves with another addictive mmo game could it ever accomplish what wow did?
I would be glad to hear wow has stopped growing as a result of some other kick ass games releasing and offering comeptition into the market, but as far as I can tell that doesn't seem to be the case.
Seeing a massive decline in wow without an equal increase in other games doesn't really sound l ike it is doing the genre very much good imho.
Agreed.
If WoW's subscription numbers start to tumble while other games out are really not gaining players, well, thats not a good sign for the genre as a whole.
But as for WoW hitting a plateu right now, its nothing big. Its mostly just bored players unsubbing while waiting for Cata to come out.
Most wowers were new to the genre, and after wow they quit it again. Nothing nobody would've anticipated.
Almost every single person was new to the genre in the EQ/UO years and they had no problem sticking around as the genre grew from tens of thousands to millions and millions of players prior to wow and has continued to grow since then to tens of millions. They continued to stick around, because better games kept getting released. Most of them became wow players to also. I wonder what has changed in the last 5-6 years? Hrmm...
The notion that people are somehow incapable of trying other mmos is just absurd in ignored the reality of the market right now.
I don't expect anything bud, but you are certainly making some bold assumptions considering you are not psychic. This thread is about WOW and not about harsh death penalties or even Darkfall for that matter, so stay on topic.
I used to play and love WOW, and many of my friends still do. So I do take an active interest in this game. Is that ok with you?
I'm feeling magnaminious, so yes, it's OK with me. For now. I reserve the right to rescind my permission in the future.
Seriouslly, 99% or so of the "Ding dong, WoW is dead" posts are from people who are now, and forever more shall be, in a small minority of the MMORPG market, and who manage an amazing feat of cognitive dissonance in simultaneously decreeing themselves "elite" and believing their playstyle would be popular if people were somehow barred from playing Warcraft.
Besides, according to these papers, I am psychic. Oh wait. "PsychOTic." Hm. That's the same thing, right?
I still do play WoW (and EVE, and some F2P games), so, yeah, the game's life is of interest to me, too. However, ultimately, this is a bit of a non-story. All games will eventually hit their maximum potential market. There's only so many people on the planet who want to pretend to be a magical elf, and WoW probably has most of them at this point. What's interesting to me is if it's possible for any "traditional style" MMORPG to capture a significantly larger audience, or if the 10-12 million WoW has represents the likely maximum. It will be interesting to see how it evolves.
I'm thinking WOW will have more subs and be raking in more money than any other mmo in 10 years. Some people think the SWTOR will dethrone or atleast chip away at WOW. I don't think so, but I hope I'm wrong. There is no one to take the throne away from WOW, except maybe Blizzard.
"Almost every single person was new to the genre in the EQ/UO years and they had no problem sticking around as the genre grew from tens of thousands to millions and millions of players prior to wow and has continued to grow since then to tens of millions. They continued to stick around, because better games kept getting released. Most of them became wow players to also. I wonder what has changed in the last 5-6 years? Hrmm...
The notion that people are somehow incapable of trying other mmos is just absurd in ignored the reality of the market right now. "
There's a reason that EQ, UO, AC are still running. Enough of the players who started playing those games are still playing, keeping the games profitable. When enough of them tire out and leave those games will close down.
WoW did bring in millions of players who had never touched an MMO. Millions of those millions still stick to WoW, and will for a long time. WoW has just finally reached the point (that all MMOs hit) where the turn over of players leaving is not surpassed by new/returning players. That means it has met the reach the game will meet. Now it will go into the mode all MMOs do which is slowly lose the players they brought in and shrink over time, with their size that will be a long long time.
The reason newer games have been getting so many initial sales and then dropping down to a tiny fraction of subs so quickly is the fact that they bring very few, if any, new players to the genre. So instead they get all the players who want to try something new, and when the next new thing comes out the try that too. These new games are getting the players who like to jump from game to game every month or two months. The players who have been in the genre long enough that they get bored of new MMOs easily.
Yes people try other games, but they keep trying other games. This is why no other game will reach the WoW level, at least not for a long time. The genre now has millions and millions of more players then in the early days, but those millions and millions are all experienced MMO gamers which means they stick with new games for less time. The MMO market has not been growing much at all in the past couple years, there isn't as much new interest as there was when WoW was rocketing to it's record levels. The gain is slow now and there are too many new games to compete for that slow gain.
Who cares if WoW will be dethroned or not? Is there anybody there waiting for a second WoW? (those were rethorical questions) I'm all for diversity in the MMO genre, and that's the problem I have with a number of the WoW fans that post on this site: there's nothing wrong with loving the game you play, but somehow that translates in talking down all the other MMO's that are out and 'how much crap this MMO is' and 'how much crap that MMO'.
It's good for the genre if a WoW is successful. And if a Aion is successful and has 3.5-4 mil subs? Great! The more the merrier, and if that's for a large part because of the Korean market, then so f***king what? And if an EVE Online keeps growing, or a LotrO is doing well, or MMO's who sucked at launch have improved and are an enjoyable game now like AoC, even better! Are there people having sex with WoW or is it their girl/boyfriend or so, that they don't like it if other MMO's are successful or good MMO's in their own way?
The MMO genre can only evolve if you have a lot of companies trying stuff out, and a lot of different MMO's in the field who each do certain things better or different than others, to cater to different tastes. Just like the gaming genre in general shows: it's good to have a Battlefield 2 next to a MW2, and a Mass Effect 2 and a Heavy Rain and so on. And so what if not all those games around peak at a billion dollar sales as a MW2, it's the diversity that should be nourished.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Anyone who has played WoW these days knows that the old worlds are as dead as a doornail including Outland. There is no way 12 mill is squeezed into Lich King areas. Just face facts and releaze WoW is old, people are leaving and it is time for something new. WoW had its days but those days are long gone. It was a good run though!
Everyone who can read can see Blizzard gained 325 million dollars in its last quarter. So the stats are against you.
As the biggest wow hater in space and surroundings I do know you have no idea at all how WOW is being played these days.
And no - a single post of "I play WOW again" doesn't convince me one bit.
---
What DOES convince me is your very first posts in these pages of 2007 where you already declared WOW "no live at all".
Here it goes by WOW hater Saint Viktor:
written as his very first post Mar 2007 ...on mmorpg.com
"As far as WOW being down in 2007 there is that chance it might. Alot of new mmo's are coming out this year and well TBC doesn't offer tons of content to keep you busy for a year , infact in less than a month we saw lvl 70 blood elves and draeni running around the towns. Also Blizzard announced they are making a new MMO, either World of Diablo or World of Starcraft, sooo where does that leave World of Warcrft ? To me that would leave me to believe that Blizzard has no major plans in attempting to keep WOW alive "
Yes people try other games, but they keep trying other games. This is why no other game will reach the WoW level, at least not for a long time. The genre now has millions and millions of more players then in the early days, but those millions and millions are all experienced MMO gamers which means they stick with new games for less time. The MMO market has not been growing much at all in the past couple years, there isn't as much new interest as there was when WoW was rocketing to it's record levels. The gain is slow now and there are too many new games to compete for that slow gain.
I remember when people said almost this exact thing about EQ and how the mmo market wasn't growing.
Wow certainly brought a lot of new players to the market, but it also siphoned many active and experienced players from almost every single existing mmo that was currently on the market. It also attracted the people who did try mmos prior to 2005, but just found the massive time sink design philosphy to not be enjoyable. Furthermore people who would have joined other games instead joined wow, so it isn't like they are genetically different and incapable of enjoying any other mmo but wow.
Do we really want to blame the lack of growth of other mmos on peoples unwillingness to try or play other games or is it more likely that the lack of quality in most games over the last 5-6 years has had a more serious effect on the market than people are willing to admit?
Comments
When Cataclysm comes out I will resub. I've gone and come back twice. I could see going back for another year or so if Cataclysm is fun. The fact is most mmo's today are boring, lonely, uninspired, hardware hogs, etc. WOW has succeeded because it's a good game, and second because other mmo dev teams have failed to rise to the challenge and make a better game.
Haters can hate all they want. It's pointless hate though. So now they don't have 11 million they may have 10 million or 9 million. It makes no difference really. WOW is and was a gaming phenomenon and will most likely continue to be so for some time because they do many things right.
In my 4 years playing WoW, when each new expansion is released new players and veterans come back and see what is available. The game is about to change a lot soon with Cataclysm, which is something that new players will enjoy and an increase of Veteran players coming back for a period of time like they usually do. I know this because players who I keep on my friend list and have not logged in forever suddenly start coming back when it's expansion time.
I think Blizzard had intentionally made a game that once you get involved and enjoy what you are doing, most other games feel poorly crafted. It leaves sort of a nostalgia feeling that makes you bring yourself to reactivate your account. They know players will come back for a duration so they keep all your characters for you right where they left off.
Great game and I think the only game that could be the myth "WoW Killer" would be a sequel. SW:ToR will shave off numbers but it will still be a giant compared to the others.
I personally loved this part. Its pretty much how I've always felt about the game. I know vets who as you said jumped in because they loved Warcraft Lore and these days pretty much want to hang the entire staff at Blizzard for what they are doing to the Story. Personally I played WoW for a couple years because it was a fun MMO that did things... better than other's could manage.
At the moment Blizzard's greatest enemy is itself. It has to keep the game interesting in the face of all these new "WoW-Killers" who are able to bring really innovative ideas to the market. They have to do that while not alienating older players who might not like the changes. Which is impossible to do completely. So WoW might not always be the most popular MMO but the fact that they still make Blizzard more money than any other MMO could is saying something after about five years.
That being said Im scared TOR will hurt me like SWG did. Different team and I actually love Bioware but Im still reserved. Then there are games like TERA that are trying to combine this trend in shooters and action based gameplay with the more traditional RPG system. So it will be interesting to see what happens but I dont see Blizzard getting too upset anytime soon. Besides with Starcraft on the horizon they are about to make quite a bit of cash. So Im not too worried about Blizzard.
With utter failures I suppose I'm talking from my own personal perspective over expectations from games such as Age of Conan, Warhammer and Vanguard. 3 titles I was really looking forward to that went pffft instead of boom.
I totally agree on the entry specifications being a huge boost for them. Everyone with a PC can run WoW but more than that, they are building access to game systems into browsers now with things like armory and the auction house access coming shortly, showing that they see the importance of accessibility and keeping people involved. I think we will see them expand more in this direction when they reveal their next MMO, even with some elements creeping on to mobile phones in some way.
I think the Warcraft IP is what gave the game its legs to start with but it isn't what has sustained them and built it up to such dizzying heights. That was it just ticked all the right boxes for so many MMO players tired of Korean grind-fests and Everquest - it was the right game with the right systems at the right time. Word of mouth has done the rest to the point where it has become a self-sustaining phenomena. When a MMO makes headlines on the evening news and every gamer is aware of it then the marketting is basically looking after itself and becoming viral in nature.
I'm not sold on TOR being the heavy weight they are hoping it to be yet. EA is saying it expects 1 million subs with a possibility of 3 million. Yes it has the Star Wars IP, but is it actually any good surely that's the key to it? and it's just too soon to tell. and I'm definitely not sold on a MMO that has all the quests delivered with voice acting but I'm still keen to try it. Hopefully I will be surprised.
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You can walk the walk but can you talk the talk?
Although blizzard deserves their success I'm glad to hear it's stopped growing. It's high time for change and this is a good start. I just didn't think it would take this long to reach its crest. Damn. I hope the downhill doesn't take as many years as wow's climb.
How will the game content change as it diminishes I wonder? Obviously blizzard is sitting pretty with sc2 and diablo revenues about to come in.
Even if they manage in the coming years to outdo themselves with another addictive mmo game could it ever accomplish what wow did?
I would be glad to hear wow has stopped growing as a result of some other kick ass games releasing and offering comeptition into the market, but as far as I can tell that doesn't seem to be the case.
Seeing a massive decline in wow without an equal increase in other games doesn't really sound l ike it is doing the genre very much good imho.
Agreed.
If WoW's subscription numbers start to tumble while other games out are really not gaining players, well, thats not a good sign for the genre as a whole.
But as for WoW hitting a plateu right now, its nothing big. Its mostly just bored players unsubbing while waiting for Cata to come out.
There are 3 types of people in the world.
1.) Those who make things happen
2.) Those who watch things happen
3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
Wow is getting old and like you said, no one gave us a kick-ass game. I wished another game would've taken its place to but under the circumstance this is the next best thing. One, we shouldn't support bad games. Two, blizzard needs to get going on something else. An industry doesn't exist for the sake of itself. It's only purpose is to meet consumer demands. So with loss of players they can adapt and start meeting demands again or go bye bye.
Well they are currently working on a new MMO, and as usual they will keep it pretty quiet until they have something substatial to show.
As for other companies making MMOs, I wish they would just aim to make a good game and stop with all the artificial hype (hell players need to stop as well). The genre doesnt need a 'WoW Killer'. It just needs some really good, stable alternatives.
There are 3 types of people in the world.
1.) Those who make things happen
2.) Those who watch things happen
3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
Most wowers were new to the genre, and after wow they quit it again. Nothing nobody would've anticipated.
That too.
But you cant really blame them with most of the MMOs released post WoW.
Most of the games that came out after WoW were like a fireworks show that has been advertised as the greatest display of pyrotechnics ever created, only to find out that once you paid for the tickets and found a spot to sit down that it was really just some old dude with a bottle rocket and a boom box....
There are 3 types of people in the world.
1.) Those who make things happen
2.) Those who watch things happen
3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
Right and the official announcment that subs are leveling out is a reminder that it's only a matter of time before they announce a new mmo. This is a good thing. I don't understand why anyone would just care about sub numbers for the "genre" given the current state of recent mmo's and the wow dinosaur unless they are coming from other than a player's perpective.
They don't, it's basic human psychology. The game they have been playing since 2004 is finally winding down. It's called denial, and it's completely understandable. Who knows, if I was still playing the game maybe I'd be making similar posts.
Unfortunately no amount of hair/teeth pulling is going to stop this ship from sinking. It may be a slow sinking, but even Blizzard knew the day would eventually come. In all fairness we can't expect all of the fans to accept this fact gracefully.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
Except, of course, that the next game to take WoW's place will be "A better WoW than WoW", just as WoW was "A better EQ than EQ."
So if you think the Next Big Thing is going to have harsh death penalties, full loot PVP, and a focus on 80 man raids that require 36 hours of constant keyboard attendance to complete.... think again.
The "next WoW" is likely to be something along the lines of "Farmville, but with elves."
(And, of course, WoW will be a looooong time dieing... consider that UO is still chugging along. You'll be able to log on and look for Mankrik's wife well into the 2010s.)
However, I expect 99% of the people reading this to take it as evidence that WoW will be cancelled in three months and we'll all be playing Darkfall or something before 2011.
Anyone who has played WoW these days knows that the old worlds are as dead as a doornail including Outland. There is no way 12 mill is squeezed into Lich King areas. Just face facts and releaze WoW is old, people are leaving and it is time for something new. WoW had its days but those days are long gone. It was a good run though!
I don't expect anything bud, but you are certainly making some bold assumptions considering you are not psychic. This thread is about WOW and not about harsh death penalties or even Darkfall for that matter, so stay on topic.
I used to play and love WOW, and many of my friends still do. So I do take an active interest in this game. Is that ok with you?
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
I would love to know how much money Blizzard has brought in from this game so far, im sure someone is extremely wealthy by now
For some reason that sparked a memory of watching Ducktales where Uncle Scrooge goes swimming in his money room...
There are 3 types of people in the world.
1.) Those who make things happen
2.) Those who watch things happen
3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
Almost every single person was new to the genre in the EQ/UO years and they had no problem sticking around as the genre grew from tens of thousands to millions and millions of players prior to wow and has continued to grow since then to tens of millions. They continued to stick around, because better games kept getting released. Most of them became wow players to also. I wonder what has changed in the last 5-6 years? Hrmm...
The notion that people are somehow incapable of trying other mmos is just absurd in ignored the reality of the market right now.
I'm feeling magnaminious, so yes, it's OK with me. For now. I reserve the right to rescind my permission in the future.
Seriouslly, 99% or so of the "Ding dong, WoW is dead" posts are from people who are now, and forever more shall be, in a small minority of the MMORPG market, and who manage an amazing feat of cognitive dissonance in simultaneously decreeing themselves "elite" and believing their playstyle would be popular if people were somehow barred from playing Warcraft.
Besides, according to these papers, I am psychic. Oh wait. "PsychOTic." Hm. That's the same thing, right?
I still do play WoW (and EVE, and some F2P games), so, yeah, the game's life is of interest to me, too. However, ultimately, this is a bit of a non-story. All games will eventually hit their maximum potential market. There's only so many people on the planet who want to pretend to be a magical elf, and WoW probably has most of them at this point. What's interesting to me is if it's possible for any "traditional style" MMORPG to capture a significantly larger audience, or if the 10-12 million WoW has represents the likely maximum. It will be interesting to see how it evolves.
I'm thinking WOW will have more subs and be raking in more money than any other mmo in 10 years. Some people think the SWTOR will dethrone or atleast chip away at WOW. I don't think so, but I hope I'm wrong. There is no one to take the throne away from WOW, except maybe Blizzard.
"Almost every single person was new to the genre in the EQ/UO years and they had no problem sticking around as the genre grew from tens of thousands to millions and millions of players prior to wow and has continued to grow since then to tens of millions. They continued to stick around, because better games kept getting released. Most of them became wow players to also. I wonder what has changed in the last 5-6 years? Hrmm...
The notion that people are somehow incapable of trying other mmos is just absurd in ignored the reality of the market right now. "
There's a reason that EQ, UO, AC are still running. Enough of the players who started playing those games are still playing, keeping the games profitable. When enough of them tire out and leave those games will close down.
WoW did bring in millions of players who had never touched an MMO. Millions of those millions still stick to WoW, and will for a long time. WoW has just finally reached the point (that all MMOs hit) where the turn over of players leaving is not surpassed by new/returning players. That means it has met the reach the game will meet. Now it will go into the mode all MMOs do which is slowly lose the players they brought in and shrink over time, with their size that will be a long long time.
The reason newer games have been getting so many initial sales and then dropping down to a tiny fraction of subs so quickly is the fact that they bring very few, if any, new players to the genre. So instead they get all the players who want to try something new, and when the next new thing comes out the try that too. These new games are getting the players who like to jump from game to game every month or two months. The players who have been in the genre long enough that they get bored of new MMOs easily.
Yes people try other games, but they keep trying other games. This is why no other game will reach the WoW level, at least not for a long time. The genre now has millions and millions of more players then in the early days, but those millions and millions are all experienced MMO gamers which means they stick with new games for less time. The MMO market has not been growing much at all in the past couple years, there isn't as much new interest as there was when WoW was rocketing to it's record levels. The gain is slow now and there are too many new games to compete for that slow gain.
Who cares if WoW will be dethroned or not? Is there anybody there waiting for a second WoW? (those were rethorical questions) I'm all for diversity in the MMO genre, and that's the problem I have with a number of the WoW fans that post on this site: there's nothing wrong with loving the game you play, but somehow that translates in talking down all the other MMO's that are out and 'how much crap this MMO is' and 'how much crap that MMO'.
It's good for the genre if a WoW is successful. And if a Aion is successful and has 3.5-4 mil subs? Great! The more the merrier, and if that's for a large part because of the Korean market, then so f***king what? And if an EVE Online keeps growing, or a LotrO is doing well, or MMO's who sucked at launch have improved and are an enjoyable game now like AoC, even better! Are there people having sex with WoW or is it their girl/boyfriend or so, that they don't like it if other MMO's are successful or good MMO's in their own way?
The MMO genre can only evolve if you have a lot of companies trying stuff out, and a lot of different MMO's in the field who each do certain things better or different than others, to cater to different tastes. Just like the gaming genre in general shows: it's good to have a Battlefield 2 next to a MW2, and a Mass Effect 2 and a Heavy Rain and so on. And so what if not all those games around peak at a billion dollar sales as a MW2, it's the diversity that should be nourished.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Everyone who can read can see Blizzard gained 325 million dollars in its last quarter. So the stats are against you.
As the biggest wow hater in space and surroundings I do know you have no idea at all how WOW is being played these days.
And no - a single post of "I play WOW again" doesn't convince me one bit.
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What DOES convince me is your very first posts in these pages of 2007 where you already declared WOW "no live at all".
Here it goes by WOW hater Saint Viktor:
written as his very first post Mar 2007 ...on mmorpg.com
"As far as WOW being down in 2007 there is that chance it might. Alot of new mmo's are coming out this year and well TBC doesn't offer tons of content to keep you busy for a year , infact in less than a month we saw lvl 70 blood elves and draeni running around the towns. Also Blizzard announced they are making a new MMO, either World of Diablo or World of Starcraft, sooo where does that leave World of Warcrft ? To me that would leave me to believe that Blizzard has no major plans in attempting to keep WOW alive "
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/userPosts/600412/page/288
You created the topic OP. No discussion: you failed in every post about WOW since your very first post on these pages.
Sit on it. You were ridiculously wrong back then. You just made the joke prolonged for another 3 years.
Want a real mmorpg? Play WOW with experience turned off mode and be Pve_Pvp King at any level without a rat race.
I remember when people said almost this exact thing about EQ and how the mmo market wasn't growing.
Wow certainly brought a lot of new players to the market, but it also siphoned many active and experienced players from almost every single existing mmo that was currently on the market. It also attracted the people who did try mmos prior to 2005, but just found the massive time sink design philosphy to not be enjoyable. Furthermore people who would have joined other games instead joined wow, so it isn't like they are genetically different and incapable of enjoying any other mmo but wow.
Do we really want to blame the lack of growth of other mmos on peoples unwillingness to try or play other games or is it more likely that the lack of quality in most games over the last 5-6 years has had a more serious effect on the market than people are willing to admit?