For myself it was very competitive, I had to pay for a spot inside a well established city. Resource spots were based on geography so spots became crucial and were quickly taken if you weren't all over the new random resources. I would say as a crafter, location was very important commercially and industrially on my server.
Interesting article, I was wondering how much you got form UO & SWG Pre-CU vets
Before anything else there was too much griefiing in UO, for the casual gamer, and SWG was bit tedious, especially grinding crafting professions and managing all the resources gathering, more like an unpaid second work.
i respectfully disagree
i found swg's crafting system very easy to get used to ounce you put in 1 or 2 hrs of work to figure it out
it even got fun
swg had one of the greatest crafting systems out there if not the greatest witch i believe it was and most people i talk to who like crafting tend to agree
just because you dont like crafting doesn't mean people who do like crafting didnt like swg's crafting system
iv playd many mmo's in my time and none of the crafting systems compare to swg's
Sorry, I think you miss understood me. I really like crafting and I can say I had my share of it in SWG. Although there were a few issues with it.
It was a click fest, so much that some players used 3rd party macro software to level it, even before the holo-grind
Once there was a "master in town" most lower level items became useless, meaning others leveling crafter would craft then delete items
Managing all the resources was a pain, no wonder players asked for an ability to combine resources, better inventory management and storage facilities. Remember the houses filled with backpacks full of resources? Most crafters had many houses for just for this. Managing harvester was a real job. No surprise players asked for a way to at least check remotely the structure of the harvesters, of not even be able to maintain them with droids. Not the least the harvester UI was poorly done, thus making crafter use self made macro to tend them.
One thing I liked in SWG was the ability to customize and colorize the item names
Originally posted by Jairoe03
It's time for developers to look at these games from a more social angle and start catering to that end of the spectrum as well
QFE
perhaps i did misunderstand i thought you were trying to say you hated the swg crafting system
theres so many people today that don't know what the hell there talking about that bash swg for the sake of bashing it
it gets hard to recognize someone who is talking from actual experience
and for that i apologize
i actually looked forward to going to my harvesters every other day and never used droids to do it but then again its the intricacies that thrill me in an mmo
as for using backpacks to sort mats i had cabinets lol
running 2 crafting classes and CH was great with the cabinets that is :P
as for not making lower level stuff i usually made anything and everything i could especially after becoming master in both of my crafting professions but then again i have the toy maker play style (i understand thats kind of rare)
and after all you had to be certified to use something before it was truly use full so people dont stick to just the high end stuff because it was next to worthless till they could use it :P
so no mater the level most stuff was always in demand
there really wasn't anything i didnt like about swg crafting
hell even mat obtaining always kept me on the look out for the better mats
as for the 3rd party crap ya i was aware of it and wanted to personally go and kill any one who used it cause in my mind that's cheating
as for using houses for just crafting storage i never did that
i had a guild hall i used as a crafting hub for my town and it was well decorated and furnished
and my large house i used to display things and hang trophies and other weird thing i found throughout the game
in the end before the NGE apocalypse hit i was one of the more sought out architect/ droid engineers on my server
and had ties to many of my customers who kept coming back to buy from me or my fellow guild and/or city members
man i miss it sorry about suddenly reminiscing there lol :P
any who glad to meat a fellow crafter
and i still say out of all the games i have played i have yet to find one with a crafting system as good and as relevant as swg's
Memories sometimes hurts.
I didn't play all MMO but since SWG I didn't see any one that had such a good system: good resources gathering, crafting experimentation system and resources stats, ability to choose and colorize the name of the end product, name of the creator automatically added to the item, looted top end components and not the least player made economy, from dedicated crafter to dedicated merchants through dedicated resources gatherers.
As many others I would bite for a simple carbon copy of SWG system, but I would enhance it with a few features:
Consumables: ammunitions, clothe dyes, batteries for shield generators, armors layers....
Miner (or farmer) profession, that among others things has the ability to mix/experiment resources of the same kind
Better harverster UI
Better resources sorting, add tabs and filters
Ability to fully repair anything, with a (huge?) money sink and crafter made repair kits.
Ability to put stacks of items for sale with a per unit price and choice of the buyer to get how much he wants.
Dedicated storage building
same hear doesn't mater if its fantasy or scifi as long as its systems are similar to swg's especially the way they had you pretty much tailor make your character's profession that i felt was the most awesome part of swg that and its crafting system and its housing system and its ch ...... there i go again
i just wish the ones i keep an eye on that look to be coming close would stop going open pvp lol :P
as i avoid open and forced pvp like the plague lol :P
then again i did try the few i was watching and they didn't even come close to what swg offered
hey great conversation btw its very rare that i ever get this involved in a thread on any forum
For myself it was very competitive, I had to pay for a spot inside a well established city. Resource spots were based on geography so spots became crucial and were quickly taken if you weren't all over the new random resources. I would say as a crafter, location was very important commercially and industrially on my server.
resource spots they were always random so i didnt care ware i was in comparison to them and often went 50+ k away from my house to put down my harvys and often on different planets all together
its one of the things i actually looked forward to is moving my harvys it was like my own little adventure but then again i was kind of crazy and over dedicated when placing them so i didnt care how far and how long it took me lol :P
then again by being that involved in it i always was able to find a spot for them and usually in a not so crowded area so it made them easier to find infact often mine would be the only ones any ware near ware i put them lol
so i do admit competition was there for harvy placement but i tended to find ways to avoid it all together
resource spots they were always random so i didnt care ware i was in comparison to them and often went 50+ k away from my house to put down my harvys and often on different planets all together its one of the things i actually looked forward to is moving my harvys it was like my own little adventure but then again i was kind of crazy and over dedicated when placing them so i didnt care how far and how long it took me lol :P then again by being that involved in it i always was able to find a spot for them and usually in a not so crowded area so it made them easier to find infact often mine would be the only ones any ware near ware i put them lol so i do admit competition was there for harvy placement but i tended to find ways to avoid it all together
Well, it became crucial enough for me. Actually, I bought a house that took up 8/10 lots and hired a newbie to use up all her lots for my resources. Taught her the basics behind my craft specifically how to identify resources and strategically place harvesters. I was generous enough to actually share half my profits and probably has to be one of the best example of player interaction within an MMORPG in my own experience. That newbie picked up a lot quicker than I thought and she became a pro at getting great resources for me very quickly (I would say less than a week). I don't think its that easily to bring something like that back, maybe in EVE, but then extends to my corporation who helps me out with resources and not limited to raw materials either, also to star base facilities etc. I think companies should find newer ways to encourage these types of "positive" interactions in more diverse ways (beyond crafting and even into combat).
Interesting article, I was wondering how much you got form UO & SWG Pre-CU vets
Before anything else there was too much griefiing in UO, for the casual gamer, and SWG was bit tedious, especially grinding crafting professions and managing all the resources gathering, more like an unpaid second work.
i respectfully disagree
i found swg's crafting system very easy to get used to ounce you put in 1 or 2 hrs of work to figure it out
it even got fun
swg had one of the greatest crafting systems out there if not the greatest witch i believe it was and most people i talk to who like crafting tend to agree
just because you dont like crafting doesn't mean people who do like crafting didnt like swg's crafting system
iv playd many mmo's in my time and none of the crafting systems compare to swg's
Sorry, I think you miss understood me. I really like crafting and I can say I had my share of it in SWG. Although there were a few issues with it.
It was a click fest, so much that some players used 3rd party macro software to level it, even before the holo-grind
Once there was a "master in town" most lower level items became useless, meaning others leveling crafter would craft then delete items
Managing all the resources was a pain, no wonder players asked for an ability to combine resources, better inventory management and storage facilities. Remember the houses filled with backpacks full of resources? Most crafters had many houses for just for this. Managing harvester was a real job. No surprise players asked for a way to at least check remotely the structure of the harvesters, of not even be able to maintain them with droids. Not the least the harvester UI was poorly done, thus making crafter use self made macro to tend them.
One thing I liked in SWG was the ability to customize and colorize the item names
Originally posted by Jairoe03
It's time for developers to look at these games from a more social angle and start catering to that end of the spectrum as well
QFE
perhaps i did misunderstand i thought you were trying to say you hated the swg crafting system
theres so many people today that don't know what the hell there talking about that bash swg for the sake of bashing it
it gets hard to recognize someone who is talking from actual experience
and for that i apologize
i actually looked forward to going to my harvesters every other day and never used droids to do it but then again its the intricacies that thrill me in an mmo
as for using backpacks to sort mats i had cabinets lol
running 2 crafting classes and CH was great with the cabinets that is :P
as for not making lower level stuff i usually made anything and everything i could especially after becoming master in both of my crafting professions but then again i have the toy maker play style (i understand thats kind of rare)
and after all you had to be certified to use something before it was truly use full so people dont stick to just the high end stuff because it was next to worthless till they could use it :P
so no mater the level most stuff was always in demand
there really wasn't anything i didnt like about swg crafting
hell even mat obtaining always kept me on the look out for the better mats
as for the 3rd party crap ya i was aware of it and wanted to personally go and kill any one who used it cause in my mind that's cheating
as for using houses for just crafting storage i never did that
i had a guild hall i used as a crafting hub for my town and it was well decorated and furnished
and my large house i used to display things and hang trophies and other weird thing i found throughout the game
in the end before the NGE apocalypse hit i was one of the more sought out architect/ droid engineers on my server
and had ties to many of my customers who kept coming back to buy from me or my fellow guild and/or city members
man i miss it sorry about suddenly reminiscing there lol :P
any who glad to meat a fellow crafter
and i still say out of all the games i have played i have yet to find one with a crafting system as good and as relevant as swg's
Memories sometimes hurts.
I didn't play all MMO but since SWG I didn't see any one that had such a good system: good resources gathering, crafting experimentation system and resources stats, ability to choose and colorize the name of the end product, name of the creator automatically added to the item, looted top end components and not the least player made economy, from dedicated crafter to dedicated merchants through dedicated resources gatherers.
As many others I would bite for a simple carbon copy of SWG system, but I would enhance it with a few features:
Consumables: ammunitions, clothe dyes, batteries for shield generators, armors layers....
Miner (or farmer) profession, that among others things has the ability to mix/experiment resources of the same kind
Better harverster UI
Better resources sorting, add tabs and filters
Ability to fully repair anything, with a (huge?) money sink and crafter made repair kits.
Ability to put stacks of items for sale with a per unit price and choice of the buyer to get how much he wants.
Dedicated storage building
same hear doesn't mater if its fantasy or scifi as long as its systems are similar to swg's especially the way they had you pretty much tailor make your character's profession that i felt was the most awesome part of swg that and its crafting system and its housing system and its ch ...... there i go again
i just wish the ones i keep an eye on that look to be coming close would stop going open pvp lol :P
as i avoid open and forced pvp like the plague lol :P
then again i did try the few i was watching and they didn't even come close to what swg offered
hey great conversation btw its very rare that i ever get this involved in a thread on any forum
Argh Ch..., I knew someone would name it and BE isn't that far away either. That was a low blow
BE was the most complex crafting profession /tiphat to the designer who created it. And thanks to Jeff Freeman for having actually created the ability to tame and grow up pets for CH.
SWG skill system was a grind fest but it let you be that pistoleer / cook if you wanted it to so. And that was fun, although I would have lowered the Xp need to re-master skill trees you once knew by some %, to encourage people try new templates, especially with one character per server only.
I discovered earthrise not so long ago and even if I raised an eyebrow at the open PvP feature there are many things that makes me lean towards it. Wait and see.
I find it really interesting that so many people are interested in housing.
I played Vanguard briefly, but never got into the housing phase of the game. I did get to tuor some of my friend's houses, however.
From my own point of view, I don't really need housing as a major portion of my gaming, however, it's fun when it is available. I like my housing to actually do something for me. I keep remembering the old pre-mmorpg game Might and Magic, which had a castle you could "build" as a reward for finishing your quests. That was fun, in that it unlocked several useful things for the players as it got build.
As previously hinted, I like the superhero base building system in CoX, though that is generally an activity for more than one player at a time.
I must say I was disappointed in the Gulld Hall in Everquest. I don't see why it could have not been an interactive system, rather than a static system. It would have been nice to allow us to personalize the guild halls.
Construction in a game might be interesting. Mostly if it were not terribly restricted. I'd love to have been able to go into the middle of West Karana, for instance, in Everquest, and build myself a little hovel, stock it with crafted items not available in the Karanas, and have fun. But that is not available in EQ. Heck, I'd just like to build a little hovel someplace, and see how long it takes some other player to come along and knock it down!
I find it really interesting that so many people are interested in housing. I played Vanguard briefly, but never got into the housing phase of the game. I did get to tuor some of my friend's houses, however. From my own point of view, I don't really need housing as a major portion of my gaming, however, it's fun when it is available. I like my housing to actually do something for me. I keep remembering the old pre-mmorpg game Might and Magic, which had a castle you could "build" as a reward for finishing your quests. That was fun, in that it unlocked several useful things for the players as it got build. As previously hinted, I like the superhero base building system in CoX, though that is generally an activity for more than one player at a time. I must say I was disappointed in the Gulld Hall in Everquest. I don't see why it could have not been an interactive system, rather than a static system. It would have been nice to allow us to personalize the guild halls. Construction in a game might be interesting. Mostly if it were not terribly restricted. I'd love to have been able to go into the middle of West Karana, for instance, in Everquest, and build myself a little hovel, stock it with crafted items not available in the Karanas, and have fun. But that is not available in EQ. Heck, I'd just like to build a little hovel someplace, and see how long it takes some other player to come along and knock it down!
i love housing and i wish more games had it but
the only one to really pull off non-pvp based housing well was swg housing actually did have functions in swg
vanguard was ok but having it in predesignated areas was kind of annoying and sad and they didnt add any real functions to it
and static housing like in ffxi or eq2 i find to be completely pointless
as for pvp based housing dont care one way or another as i dont care for pvp :P
This article is so true I had to. In other words. Theme park fairytales times are over. People grew up on WOW and now they are not in their fourteens. They are looking for a true virtual world. Where you can do much more stuff. Where you can breathe. Where you can look forward, not bound by pesky themepark restrictions. Ya Sandbox features are going to be demanded once again. WOW people just grew up and WOW simplycity is not enouch. Past themepark AAA titles are showing this trend. I am very glad for that.
*stands up and does the slow 80's clap* That was right on the money. I think thats what games have been missing this whole time. Yes the exp,loot and character developement are important but you need some thing to hold you there and make you see apart of the world. Thats why FFXI was so great...good economy, housing, grouping was great. The community was awesome. I hope that devs really look at this!
Meh it seems these days its PUSH the product out and try and make a buck than forget about it. All these mmos that are coming out seem to be rushed out by the Publishers leaving the Developers looking bad. Its similar to reasturant biz...Said owner tells cook to put out a steak thats not cooked to order, cook protests, owner says its my business do what i say, cook sends it out, customer sees it-does not like it, tells the wait staff to take it back and do it properly, it comes back , owner takes it off the plate slaps it on the grill warms it up,gives it back to the cook to send back out, it goes back out to the customer,its cooked more-but it just does not look good or right now. Dont get me wrong every company needs to make there money,thats why they went into business,but how you apply your self and treat your product in the end will show. I know of a few developers that WOULD have liked to postpone a launch for a few more months of polish but could not do so cause Big Boy said shove it out the door. Game developing as a whole imo is going down hill and not up. its also like Fishing...i leave that analogy to you all .
*stands up and does the slow 80's clap* That was right on the money. I think thats what games have been missing this whole time. Yes the exp,loot and character developement are important but you need some thing to hold you there and make you see apart of the world. Thats why FFXI was so great...good economy, housing, grouping was great. The community was awesome. I hope that devs really look at this!
Yep I love FFXI for the same reason too, the best memories ive had playing any MMO, its just to bad there are not that many people on it any more, still a good game...lol im thinking of going back my self....honestly whats the point in playing an MMO or online game if you dont like or want to play with other people. Ive seen a few system where it auto teams u up with people and no one half the time talks in team chat, they do there thing, get it done, leave..examples WAR,STO.
Awesome list. This should be sent out to Developers (from CEO to intern) in an email every Monday and Friday morning. For certain items 5 through 1 have been highly neglected and have been rplaced by the Godager Mantra: Combat Combat Combat. Well, Combat Combat Combat isn't working so well. Maybe focusing on Sim Sim Sim will give a wider audience a large variety of things they can grow attached to and that in turn will keep them logging in for a longer time frame.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Very ture most mmos that are out these days Revolve around Combat, and if its not close to twitch/easy killN than no one wants it a good example IMO is Lotro Great game I think, but most peoples compalints about not likeing it was how the combat was slugish. Lotros combat was actually refreshing to me, not so fast paced and enjoyable, again same with FFX11 too.
This article really drives the point home: Sandboxes rule and themeparks drool.
I agree with this article. Thanks Jon. And as to the above quote. The best situation would be a sandbox game with themepark elements that are optional. I propose developers start making Sandpark games! Or Themebox games! Er, whatever
Addressing the overall idea of "systems", don't you think that the one thing sadly lacking in the majority of games is a way to get, and stay, in touch with other like-minded players?
I began playing online MMOs in 2001 starting with Diablo 2. After a few group experiences there and in a few subsequent games, I became a "solo player".
Not because I wanted to stay away from other online people, I have in fact, a longer history of belonging to virtual worlds versus gaming.
But it was the type of people I was running into. And not being a youngster with loads of time on my hands to evaluate and sift through the hundreds of folks who were not a match for my personality, but wanting to play the games, I chose the path that fit my entertainment needs and my schedule that's pretty much run by my work.
I didn't have the time to search through tens of "guild" and fan sites to find people I liked playing with.
This last fall I started playing around with a Facebook account I had let lie dormant for two years, and decided to use games to learn Facebook.
Doing so resulted in a surprise for me. I LIKE grouping - as long as I can find people who take the time to construct and execute a plan. I've been playing a browser game - Castle Age - and I love how the players can use all of the tools on Facebook to plan and run a campaign.
This, to me, is what is missing from most games - a set of communication tools that let the player quickly find others they will enjoy playing the game with, and allows them a simple and easy to use method to stay in contact.
I don't know how they can duplicate a system like that, but on Facebook you have your game feeds, friend feeds, your wall, personal messaging, groups and group messaging, group and personal events, chat, and a note area.
Yes, there's a lot more at Facebook, but these tools are primarily what they gamers there use to communicate, plan, and execute game goals in an expedient fashion. Then we sit around and chat a bit when a mob goes down.
Why do I like it so much? If I get poorly matched person in my "army" and also on my Friend's List, I simply eject them from both.
Poorly matched for me, as a 50 year old married female is some silly person spreading porn around my Wall and sending nasty language through messaging and chat. Delete them and it goes away, forever. I may see their name in-game, may see something they post on Battle Chat, but for the most part they are blocked from my view.
ach! I don't know, maybe it can't be done, but I can dream about it, can't I?
Addressing the overall idea of "systems", don't you think that the one thing sadly lacking in the majority of games is a way to get, and stay, in touch with other like-minded players?
I began playing online MMOs in 2001 starting with Diablo 2. After a few group experiences there and in a few subsequent games, I became a "solo player".
Not because I wanted to stay away from other online people, I have in fact, a longer history of belonging to virtual worlds versus gaming.
But it was the type of people I was running into. And not being a youngster with loads of time on my hands to evaluate and sift through the hundreds of folks who were not a match for my personality, but wanting to play the games, I chose the path that fit my entertainment needs and my schedule that's pretty much run by my work.
I didn't have the time to search through tens of "guild" and fan sites to find people I liked playing with.
This last fall I started playing around with a Facebook account I had let lie dormant for two years, and decided to use games to learn Facebook.
Doing so resulted in a surprise for me. I LIKE grouping - as long as I can find people who take the time to construct and execute a plan. I've been playing a browser game - Castle Age - and I love how the players can use all of the tools on Facebook to plan and run a campaign.
This, to me, is what is missing from most games - a set of communication tools that let the player quickly find others they will enjoy playing the game with, and allows them a simple and easy to use method to stay in contact.
I don't know how they can duplicate a system like that, but on Facebook you have your game feeds, friend feeds, your wall, personal messaging, groups and group messaging, group and personal events, chat, and a note area.
Yes, there's a lot more at Facebook, but these tools are primarily what they gamers there use to communicate, plan, and execute game goals in an expedient fashion. Then we sit around and chat a bit when a mob goes down.
Why do I like it so much? If I get poorly matched person in my "army" and also on my Friend's List, I simply eject them from both.
Poorly matched for me, as a 50 year old married female is some silly person spreading porn around my Wall and sending nasty language through messaging and chat. Delete them and it goes away, forever. I may see their name in-game, may see something they post on Battle Chat, but for the most part they are blocked from my view.
ach! I don't know, maybe it can't be done, but I can dream about it, can't I?
Reading through this thread has been a very interesting experiance. The "Sandboxers" vs. the "Themeparkers" is kinda humorous. I started my MMORPG experiance with my IP love of Star Wars. Yes, SWG. I fully understand the Skill based progression that was in game compared to the Level based grind in most today. Both have thier troubles but hands down choosing your own path is best and adds to your final stake in that MMORPG world.
What I find humorous in the Level based Themeparkers is thier lack of understanding of "Why Housing?" They read very much like this:
"(Grunt) Don't need house. Don't need nothing but to level so my progression is longer higher than the next guys. I need this so I know when I win the game. I also know what to expect from my enemies in PVP. Girls play house, men kill and I am the man.(scratchs scrote). After that, I can leave this whore of a game to pillage the next to spread my power."
Let me leave that with this added, your time in a game is forgotten on those you conquer in battle when you quit. Except the poor noob you left a Moisture Vaporator at his door step with your name and 4 years of maintance. Thats the sweetest water ever harvested.
For crafting i would say Horizons is one of the best since just about everything in game is player made, leveling tradeskills there was a market for the simple swords or armor, in games like wow working tradeskills unless at 450 skill it's fairly useless just a long grind to get to 450.
The best tutorial/newbie area in any game that i have played must be age of conan, tortage is a lot of fun and while many quests are the same the night time missions are different.
I do hate that you can't craft in age of conan before lvl 40 but nice crafting games are vanguard, eq2 and horizons, can be as fun to work tradeskills as leveling and it is a nice change of pace.
I didn't red anything but the OP & I just want to say that MMO economy is a joke & that it should be removed all together. I have some idea about what could replace it, but I'm sure some ppl wont like it cuz they wont be able to abuse it like the current system.
I think its clear as day that RMT ( gold seller) will ruin any MMOG economy. Thats a fact, so why not get rid of it. Games would fair much better without it.
edit: Oh yeah, I forgot most ppl don't want fair... they want to be the best. Nvm...
*stands up and does the slow 80's clap* That was right on the money. I think thats what games have been missing this whole time. Yes the exp,loot and character developement are important but you need some thing to hold you there and make you see apart of the world. Thats why FFXI was so great...good economy, housing, grouping was great. The community was awesome. I hope that devs really look at this!
I've often talked to friends about why I always come back to FFXI and wondered myself why it sticks with me like it does. I've played Wow, EQ, LOTRO, Vanguard, Aion, etc, that I enjoyed initially but lost their appeal, whereas, I've always 'stuck' with FFXI. I may play something else, but it is the one game that's kept me over the years.
Reading this article made me realize why. The friends I've made there are amazing. I love doing things with them. I feel a part of the world whether it's by helping friends with my crafting skills or helping to win over areas for my country or protect Al Zabhi from invading forces. And with level sync, it's been easier than ever to party with friends or meet new people. The game keeps growing, and I feel like Ive grown right along with it. I haven't gotten that feeling of strong friendships or making a difference to the world from any other MMO. I'm hoping for great things for FF14, but perfectly content in FFXI right now.
Comments
For myself it was very competitive, I had to pay for a spot inside a well established city. Resource spots were based on geography so spots became crucial and were quickly taken if you weren't all over the new random resources. I would say as a crafter, location was very important commercially and industrially on my server.
i found swg's crafting system very easy to get used to ounce you put in 1 or 2 hrs of work to figure it out
it even got fun
swg had one of the greatest crafting systems out there if not the greatest witch i believe it was and most people i talk to who like crafting tend to agree
just because you dont like crafting doesn't mean people who do like crafting didnt like swg's crafting system
iv playd many mmo's in my time and none of the crafting systems compare to swg's
Sorry, I think you miss understood me. I really like crafting and I can say I had my share of it in SWG. Although there were a few issues with it.
One thing I liked in SWG was the ability to customize and colorize the item names
QFE
perhaps i did misunderstand i thought you were trying to say you hated the swg crafting system
theres so many people today that don't know what the hell there talking about that bash swg for the sake of bashing it
it gets hard to recognize someone who is talking from actual experience
and for that i apologize
i actually looked forward to going to my harvesters every other day and never used droids to do it but then again its the intricacies that thrill me in an mmo
as for using backpacks to sort mats i had cabinets lol
running 2 crafting classes and CH was great with the cabinets that is :P
as for not making lower level stuff i usually made anything and everything i could especially after becoming master in both of my crafting professions but then again i have the toy maker play style (i understand thats kind of rare)
and after all you had to be certified to use something before it was truly use full so people dont stick to just the high end stuff because it was next to worthless till they could use it :P
so no mater the level most stuff was always in demand
there really wasn't anything i didnt like about swg crafting
hell even mat obtaining always kept me on the look out for the better mats
as for the 3rd party crap ya i was aware of it and wanted to personally go and kill any one who used it cause in my mind that's cheating
as for using houses for just crafting storage i never did that
i had a guild hall i used as a crafting hub for my town and it was well decorated and furnished
and my large house i used to display things and hang trophies and other weird thing i found throughout the game
in the end before the NGE apocalypse hit i was one of the more sought out architect/ droid engineers on my server
and had ties to many of my customers who kept coming back to buy from me or my fellow guild and/or city members
man i miss it sorry about suddenly reminiscing there lol :P
any who glad to meat a fellow crafter
and i still say out of all the games i have played i have yet to find one with a crafting system as good and as relevant as swg's
Memories sometimes hurts.
I didn't play all MMO but since SWG I didn't see any one that had such a good system: good resources gathering, crafting experimentation system and resources stats, ability to choose and colorize the name of the end product, name of the creator automatically added to the item, looted top end components and not the least player made economy, from dedicated crafter to dedicated merchants through dedicated resources gatherers.
As many others I would bite for a simple carbon copy of SWG system, but I would enhance it with a few features:
same hear doesn't mater if its fantasy or scifi as long as its systems are similar to swg's especially the way they had you pretty much tailor make your character's profession that i felt was the most awesome part of swg that and its crafting system and its housing system and its ch ...... there i go again
i just wish the ones i keep an eye on that look to be coming close would stop going open pvp lol :P
as i avoid open and forced pvp like the plague lol :P
then again i did try the few i was watching and they didn't even come close to what swg offered
hey great conversation btw its very rare that i ever get this involved in a thread on any forum
resource spots they were always random so i didnt care ware i was in comparison to them and often went 50+ k away from my house to put down my harvys and often on different planets all together
its one of the things i actually looked forward to is moving my harvys it was like my own little adventure but then again i was kind of crazy and over dedicated when placing them so i didnt care how far and how long it took me lol :P
so it made them easier to find infact often mine would be the only ones any ware near ware i put them lol
then again by being that involved in it i always was able to find a spot for them and usually in a not so crowded area
so i do admit competition was there for harvy placement but i tended to find ways to avoid it all together
Well, it became crucial enough for me. Actually, I bought a house that took up 8/10 lots and hired a newbie to use up all her lots for my resources. Taught her the basics behind my craft specifically how to identify resources and strategically place harvesters. I was generous enough to actually share half my profits and probably has to be one of the best example of player interaction within an MMORPG in my own experience. That newbie picked up a lot quicker than I thought and she became a pro at getting great resources for me very quickly (I would say less than a week). I don't think its that easily to bring something like that back, maybe in EVE, but then extends to my corporation who helps me out with resources and not limited to raw materials either, also to star base facilities etc. I think companies should find newer ways to encourage these types of "positive" interactions in more diverse ways (beyond crafting and even into combat).
what ever he said! Nice read, now we hope some developers acely does pay atension
i found swg's crafting system very easy to get used to ounce you put in 1 or 2 hrs of work to figure it out
it even got fun
swg had one of the greatest crafting systems out there if not the greatest witch i believe it was and most people i talk to who like crafting tend to agree
just because you dont like crafting doesn't mean people who do like crafting didnt like swg's crafting system
iv playd many mmo's in my time and none of the crafting systems compare to swg's
Sorry, I think you miss understood me. I really like crafting and I can say I had my share of it in SWG. Although there were a few issues with it.
One thing I liked in SWG was the ability to customize and colorize the item names
QFE
perhaps i did misunderstand i thought you were trying to say you hated the swg crafting system
theres so many people today that don't know what the hell there talking about that bash swg for the sake of bashing it
it gets hard to recognize someone who is talking from actual experience
and for that i apologize
i actually looked forward to going to my harvesters every other day and never used droids to do it but then again its the intricacies that thrill me in an mmo
as for using backpacks to sort mats i had cabinets lol
running 2 crafting classes and CH was great with the cabinets that is :P
as for not making lower level stuff i usually made anything and everything i could especially after becoming master in both of my crafting professions but then again i have the toy maker play style (i understand thats kind of rare)
and after all you had to be certified to use something before it was truly use full so people dont stick to just the high end stuff because it was next to worthless till they could use it :P
so no mater the level most stuff was always in demand
there really wasn't anything i didnt like about swg crafting
hell even mat obtaining always kept me on the look out for the better mats
as for the 3rd party crap ya i was aware of it and wanted to personally go and kill any one who used it cause in my mind that's cheating
as for using houses for just crafting storage i never did that
i had a guild hall i used as a crafting hub for my town and it was well decorated and furnished
and my large house i used to display things and hang trophies and other weird thing i found throughout the game
in the end before the NGE apocalypse hit i was one of the more sought out architect/ droid engineers on my server
and had ties to many of my customers who kept coming back to buy from me or my fellow guild and/or city members
man i miss it sorry about suddenly reminiscing there lol :P
any who glad to meat a fellow crafter
and i still say out of all the games i have played i have yet to find one with a crafting system as good and as relevant as swg's
Memories sometimes hurts.
I didn't play all MMO but since SWG I didn't see any one that had such a good system: good resources gathering, crafting experimentation system and resources stats, ability to choose and colorize the name of the end product, name of the creator automatically added to the item, looted top end components and not the least player made economy, from dedicated crafter to dedicated merchants through dedicated resources gatherers.
As many others I would bite for a simple carbon copy of SWG system, but I would enhance it with a few features:
same hear doesn't mater if its fantasy or scifi as long as its systems are similar to swg's especially the way they had you pretty much tailor make your character's profession that i felt was the most awesome part of swg that and its crafting system and its housing system and its ch ...... there i go again
i just wish the ones i keep an eye on that look to be coming close would stop going open pvp lol :P
as i avoid open and forced pvp like the plague lol :P
then again i did try the few i was watching and they didn't even come close to what swg offered
hey great conversation btw its very rare that i ever get this involved in a thread on any forum
Argh Ch..., I knew someone would name it and BE isn't that far away either. That was a low blow
BE was the most complex crafting profession /tiphat to the designer who created it. And thanks to Jeff Freeman for having actually created the ability to tame and grow up pets for CH.
SWG skill system was a grind fest but it let you be that pistoleer / cook if you wanted it to so. And that was fun, although I would have lowered the Xp need to re-master skill trees you once knew by some %, to encourage people try new templates, especially with one character per server only.
I discovered earthrise not so long ago and even if I raised an eyebrow at the open PvP feature there are many things that makes me lean towards it. Wait and see.
And thanks for stopping by!
I find it really interesting that so many people are interested in housing.
I played Vanguard briefly, but never got into the housing phase of the game. I did get to tuor some of my friend's houses, however.
From my own point of view, I don't really need housing as a major portion of my gaming, however, it's fun when it is available. I like my housing to actually do something for me. I keep remembering the old pre-mmorpg game Might and Magic, which had a castle you could "build" as a reward for finishing your quests. That was fun, in that it unlocked several useful things for the players as it got build.
As previously hinted, I like the superhero base building system in CoX, though that is generally an activity for more than one player at a time.
I must say I was disappointed in the Gulld Hall in Everquest. I don't see why it could have not been an interactive system, rather than a static system. It would have been nice to allow us to personalize the guild halls.
Construction in a game might be interesting. Mostly if it were not terribly restricted. I'd love to have been able to go into the middle of West Karana, for instance, in Everquest, and build myself a little hovel, stock it with crafted items not available in the Karanas, and have fun. But that is not available in EQ. Heck, I'd just like to build a little hovel someplace, and see how long it takes some other player to come along and knock it down!
i love housing and i wish more games had it but
the only one to really pull off non-pvp based housing well was swg housing actually did have functions in swg
vanguard was ok but having it in predesignated areas was kind of annoying and sad and they didnt add any real functions to it
and static housing like in ffxi or eq2 i find to be completely pointless
as for pvp based housing dont care one way or another as i dont care for pvp :P
'tis a good list. I would combine 'maleable world' with 'living world' ala swg resources for example.
Also wanted to add I bloody loved the FE tutorial, really well done imo.
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The person who is certain, and who claims divine warrant for his certainty, belongs now to the infancy of our species.
I dont post often
This article is so true I had to. In other words. Theme park fairytales times are over. People grew up on WOW and now they are not in their fourteens. They are looking for a true virtual world. Where you can do much more stuff. Where you can breathe. Where you can look forward, not bound by pesky themepark restrictions. Ya Sandbox features are going to be demanded once again. WOW people just grew up and WOW simplycity is not enouch. Past themepark AAA titles are showing this trend. I am very glad for that.
long live the sandbox.
*stands up and does the slow 80's clap* That was right on the money. I think thats what games have been missing this whole time. Yes the exp,loot and character developement are important but you need some thing to hold you there and make you see apart of the world. Thats why FFXI was so great...good economy, housing, grouping was great. The community was awesome. I hope that devs really look at this!
Meh it seems these days its PUSH the product out and try and make a buck than forget about it. All these mmos that are coming out seem to be rushed out by the Publishers leaving the Developers looking bad. Its similar to reasturant biz...Said owner tells cook to put out a steak thats not cooked to order, cook protests, owner says its my business do what i say, cook sends it out, customer sees it-does not like it, tells the wait staff to take it back and do it properly, it comes back , owner takes it off the plate slaps it on the grill warms it up,gives it back to the cook to send back out, it goes back out to the customer,its cooked more-but it just does not look good or right now. Dont get me wrong every company needs to make there money,thats why they went into business,but how you apply your self and treat your product in the end will show. I know of a few developers that WOULD have liked to postpone a launch for a few more months of polish but could not do so cause Big Boy said shove it out the door. Game developing as a whole imo is going down hill and not up. its also like Fishing...i leave that analogy to you all
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Yep I love FFXI for the same reason too, the best memories ive had playing any MMO, its just to bad there are not that many people on it any more, still a good game...lol im thinking of going back my self....honestly whats the point in playing an MMO or online game if you dont like or want to play with other people. Ive seen a few system where it auto teams u up with people and no one half the time talks in team chat, they do there thing, get it done, leave..examples WAR,STO.
Awesome list. This should be sent out to Developers (from CEO to intern) in an email every Monday and Friday morning. For certain items 5 through 1 have been highly neglected and have been rplaced by the Godager Mantra: Combat Combat Combat. Well, Combat Combat Combat isn't working so well. Maybe focusing on Sim Sim Sim will give a wider audience a large variety of things they can grow attached to and that in turn will keep them logging in for a longer time frame.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Chavez y Chavez
Very ture most mmos that are out these days Revolve around Combat, and if its not close to twitch/easy killN than no one wants it a good example IMO is Lotro Great game I think, but most peoples compalints about not likeing it was how the combat was slugish. Lotros combat was actually refreshing to me, not so fast paced and enjoyable, again same with FFX11 too.
I agree with this article. Thanks Jon. And as to the above quote. The best situation would be a sandbox game with themepark elements that are optional. I propose developers start making Sandpark games! Or Themebox games! Er, whatever
Addressing the overall idea of "systems", don't you think that the one thing sadly lacking in the majority of games is a way to get, and stay, in touch with other like-minded players?
I began playing online MMOs in 2001 starting with Diablo 2. After a few group experiences there and in a few subsequent games, I became a "solo player".
Not because I wanted to stay away from other online people, I have in fact, a longer history of belonging to virtual worlds versus gaming.
But it was the type of people I was running into. And not being a youngster with loads of time on my hands to evaluate and sift through the hundreds of folks who were not a match for my personality, but wanting to play the games, I chose the path that fit my entertainment needs and my schedule that's pretty much run by my work.
I didn't have the time to search through tens of "guild" and fan sites to find people I liked playing with.
This last fall I started playing around with a Facebook account I had let lie dormant for two years, and decided to use games to learn Facebook.
Doing so resulted in a surprise for me. I LIKE grouping - as long as I can find people who take the time to construct and execute a plan. I've been playing a browser game - Castle Age - and I love how the players can use all of the tools on Facebook to plan and run a campaign.
This, to me, is what is missing from most games - a set of communication tools that let the player quickly find others they will enjoy playing the game with, and allows them a simple and easy to use method to stay in contact.
I don't know how they can duplicate a system like that, but on Facebook you have your game feeds, friend feeds, your wall, personal messaging, groups and group messaging, group and personal events, chat, and a note area.
Yes, there's a lot more at Facebook, but these tools are primarily what they gamers there use to communicate, plan, and execute game goals in an expedient fashion. Then we sit around and chat a bit when a mob goes down.
Why do I like it so much? If I get poorly matched person in my "army" and also on my Friend's List, I simply eject them from both.
Poorly matched for me, as a 50 year old married female is some silly person spreading porn around my Wall and sending nasty language through messaging and chat. Delete them and it goes away, forever. I may see their name in-game, may see something they post on Battle Chat, but for the most part they are blocked from my view.
ach! I don't know, maybe it can't be done, but I can dream about it, can't I?
/bump very well put
Reading through this thread has been a very interesting experiance. The "Sandboxers" vs. the "Themeparkers" is kinda humorous. I started my MMORPG experiance with my IP love of Star Wars. Yes, SWG. I fully understand the Skill based progression that was in game compared to the Level based grind in most today. Both have thier troubles but hands down choosing your own path is best and adds to your final stake in that MMORPG world.
What I find humorous in the Level based Themeparkers is thier lack of understanding of "Why Housing?" They read very much like this:
"(Grunt) Don't need house. Don't need nothing but to level so my progression is longer higher than the next guys. I need this so I know when I win the game. I also know what to expect from my enemies in PVP. Girls play house, men kill and I am the man.(scratchs scrote). After that, I can leave this whore of a game to pillage the next to spread my power."
Let me leave that with this added, your time in a game is forgotten on those you conquer in battle when you quit. Except the poor noob you left a Moisture Vaporator at his door step with your name and 4 years of maintance. Thats the sweetest water ever harvested.
For crafting i would say Horizons is one of the best since just about everything in game is player made, leveling tradeskills there was a market for the simple swords or armor, in games like wow working tradeskills unless at 450 skill it's fairly useless just a long grind to get to 450.
The best tutorial/newbie area in any game that i have played must be age of conan, tortage is a lot of fun and while many quests are the same the night time missions are different.
I do hate that you can't craft in age of conan before lvl 40
but nice crafting games are vanguard, eq2 and horizons, can be as fun to work tradeskills as leveling and it is a nice change of pace.
I didn't red anything but the OP & I just want to say that MMO economy is a joke & that it should be removed all together. I have some idea about what could replace it, but I'm sure some ppl wont like it cuz they wont be able to abuse it like the current system.
I think its clear as day that RMT ( gold seller) will ruin any MMOG economy. Thats a fact, so why not get rid of it. Games would fair much better without it.
edit: Oh yeah, I forgot most ppl don't want fair... they want to be the best. Nvm...
I've often talked to friends about why I always come back to FFXI and wondered myself why it sticks with me like it does. I've played Wow, EQ, LOTRO, Vanguard, Aion, etc, that I enjoyed initially but lost their appeal, whereas, I've always 'stuck' with FFXI. I may play something else, but it is the one game that's kept me over the years.
Reading this article made me realize why. The friends I've made there are amazing. I love doing things with them. I feel a part of the world whether it's by helping friends with my crafting skills or helping to win over areas for my country or protect Al Zabhi from invading forces. And with level sync, it's been easier than ever to party with friends or meet new people. The game keeps growing, and I feel like Ive grown right along with it. I haven't gotten that feeling of strong friendships or making a difference to the world from any other MMO. I'm hoping for great things for FF14, but perfectly content in FFXI right now.
Great article.