Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
I'm confused...
Trokarn
Member Posts: 68
I'm confused why everyone keeps complaining about how SW:TOR is not an MMO, because its just a single player game with multiplayer connection to co-op if people want. Couldn't you say that about most MMOs on the market. In other MMOs, your actions do not affect others around you, and if you want, you can group up with people. It usually takes forever to find a group, though. Sure there's raiding in other MMOs, (not sure if there will be in SW:TOR, haven't seen that as a feature yet) but that's end game content anyways. So, your just pretty much soloing until the end of the game. Hmm...Sounds like SW:TOR fits right into the description of current MMOs, it will just have some better story-driven content.
Now, I thought that I would just through out this observation. I'm not a fanboy, I will probably not even touch this game, because it seems to be headed in the direction of being a mostly solo game, just like most MMOs right now.
Comments
Exactly.... trolling for post points. :P
Played: DAoC 6 years, WoW 2 years, Ultima/EQ 1+ years, AoC/Aion/Rift/SWTOR a few months
Tried: Warhammer, EQ2, Vanguard, Lord of the Rings Online, Dungeons and Dragons Online, Runes of Magic and many, many others...
Currently Playing: DAOC
i will enlighten you.
in the past MMORPGs were made up of the following 4 pillars:
-community
-crafting
-exploration
-progression
over the past few years the community pillar has been lacking or downright ignored in MMORPGs. by community you should understand in-game features that promote and sustain a healthy community. such features could include player skill-interdependancy, cooperation, downtime, player-driven economy of goods and services, useful non-combat professions, player housing and cities with player management, encouraging grouping etc. etc. a solid and working community system is essential to the RPG aspect of an mmo. simply put, RP doesn't begin to exist in MMOFPS or suchlikes.
bioware is selling the "4th pillar" to be "story". which is all fair if it were not for the fact they they conviniently forgot about "community". or so it would seem since they have yet to release any features which apply to this category.
so for people who have played MMOs for some time, the notion of having an online game with thousands of people without a common goal or purpose, or without the need for each other is not considered as a proper MMORPG, but rather a MMOSPG.
Have they been on the development team, playing it extensively? If not, then they lose credibility with their hilariously redundant trolls of stupidity.
That was an awesome fairy tale. I love hearing about the lives of people who lived eons ago.
Fast forward to the present and there is only 1 pillar, Progression (exploration is dead, crafting exists solely to pad progression, community has been dead for the past half decade). And quite frankly this single pillar structure seems to have done wonders for WoW.
And yes I realize there might be a few MMOs that don't follow the WoW mold, but with the exception of EVE they are all relatively inconsequential.
As the OP stated, most MMOs are almost entirely solo efforts these days.
Alltern8 Blog | Star Wars Space Combat and The Old Republic | Cryptic Studios - A Pre Post-Mortem | Klingon Preview, STO's Monster Play
That was an awesome fairy tale. I love hearing about the lives of people who lived eons ago.
Fast forward to the present and there is only 1 pillar, Progression (exploration is dead, crafting exists solely to pad progression, community has been dead for the past half decade). And quite frankly this single pillar structure seems to have done wonders for WoW.
And yes I realize there might be a few MMOs that don't follow the WoW mold, but with the exception of EVE they are all relatively inconsequential.
As the OP stated, most MMOs are almost entirely solo efforts these days.
Ok.. so they're a solo effort. Where the hell does that say that the only pillar is progression? Thats a load of crap born from the WoW mindset. Its time to grow out of it.
And this is why i will be playing FFXIV,these other games shouldn't even be called mmorpg anymore. Perhaps we the public can rename them ourselves.
Any suggestions on what be can call these new solo, single player co-op RPG?
Furious Fighters
http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/13trindx.htm
Op: Its the opinion only of a few self proclaimed elitists that only they know what an MMO is. Problem is that the MMO genere is ever changing. With so many games out there these days is there are so many (whether good or bad) games that you can no longer find groups in due to low sub games or have to play a F2P game. If there were only a few games then then the grouping wouldnt be a problem. Thier version of community ( it seems or comes off as) is you have to (forced) group, group, group to do anything in the game. If that is the way they like play thier games cool, then find a game that suits them.
IMO any online mmo that you can group for quests and comunicate with others is an MMO. Dont listen to or in this case read them.
(BBBBBBWWWWWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHH Claps as Anankin and Padme line dance together!)
All my opinions are just that..opinions. If you like my opinions..coolness.If you dont like my opinion....I really dont care.
Playing: ESO, WOT, Smite, and Marvel Heroes
That was an awesome fairy tale. I love hearing about the lives of people who lived eons ago.
Fast forward to the present and there is only 1 pillar, Progression (exploration is dead, crafting exists solely to pad progression, community has been dead for the past half decade). And quite frankly this single pillar structure seems to have done wonders for WoW.
And yes I realize there might be a few MMOs that don't follow the WoW mold, but with the exception of EVE they are all relatively inconsequential.
As the OP stated, most MMOs are almost entirely solo efforts these days.
Ok.. so they're a solo effort. Where the hell does that say that the only pillar is progression? Thats a load of crap born from the WoW mindset. Its time to grow out of it.
herein lies the issue.
you chose to believe that people who consider this game to be a single player online experience are jumping to conclusions for there will be more information about the game to come.
other people feel its only natural to have reached this conclusion since all bioware has been hypeing since they announced the game has been "story".
time will tell.
That was an awesome fairy tale. I love hearing about the lives of people who lived eons ago.
Fast forward to the present and there is only 1 pillar, Progression (exploration is dead, crafting exists solely to pad progression, community has been dead for the past half decade). And quite frankly this single pillar structure seems to have done wonders for WoW.
And yes I realize there might be a few MMOs that don't follow the WoW mold, but with the exception of EVE they are all relatively inconsequential.
As the OP stated, most MMOs are almost entirely solo efforts these days.
Ok.. so they're a solo effort. Where the hell does that say that the only pillar is progression? Thats a load of crap born from the WoW mindset. Its time to grow out of it.
herein lies the issue.
you chose to believe that people who consider this game to be a single player online experience are jumping to conclusions for there will be more information about the game to come.
other people feel its only natural to have reached this conclusion since all bioware has been hypeing since they announced the game has been "story".
time will tell.
And THAT is the whole bloody problem. Much like the idea of "Obama will/should fix all things in the first 6 months in office", the very idea that we know enough to say the game is just single player online is not just foolish, but incredibly stupid. Its all based on assumptions and nothing more, bent on scaring the living crap out of people for no reason other than to do so.
That was an awesome fairy tale. I love hearing about the lives of people who lived eons ago.
Fast forward to the present and there is only 1 pillar, Progression (exploration is dead, crafting exists solely to pad progression, community has been dead for the past half decade). And quite frankly this single pillar structure seems to have done wonders for WoW.
And yes I realize there might be a few MMOs that don't follow the WoW mold, but with the exception of EVE they are all relatively inconsequential.
As the OP stated, most MMOs are almost entirely solo efforts these days.
Ok.. so they're a solo effort. Where the hell does that say that the only pillar is progression? Thats a load of crap born from the WoW mindset. Its time to grow out of it.
herein lies the issue.
you chose to believe that people who consider this game to be a single player online experience are jumping to conclusions for there will be more information about the game to come.
other people feel its only natural to have reached this conclusion since all bioware has been hypeing since they announced the game has been "story".
time will tell.
And THAT is the whole bloody problem. Much like the idea of "Obama will/should fix all things in the first 6 months in office", the very idea that we know enough to say the game is just single player online is not just foolish, but incredibly stupid. Its all based on assumptions and nothing more, bent on scaring the living crap out of people for no reason other than to do so.
or to say that it isn't is incredibly naive...
it can be argued both ways.
Wow Troneas, way to miss the point completely. Bravo!
Refer to the thread created by the mods on the top of the page if you still have doubts on SW:TOR as an MMOG.
This game will be as much an MMO as any other one currently on the market.
Community is frankly something the players make themselves. Devs can try to encourage it by creating group content, community tools like guilds / alliances and sometimes stuff like housing etc. In some games whole mechanics can even succeed or fail with the community using them or not.
But in the end it's still the players who engage themselves or don't, this will be no different in TOR.
Feel free to use my referral link for SW:TOR if you want to test out the game. You'll get some special unlocks!
no, not at all my dear friend moirae.
you like the obama example...
look at it this way:
obama is running for president and he announces his plans for his 4 years and states in no uncertain terms that he will focus on domestic policy most specifically the economy and health care. he also announces that, unlike his former predecesors, he will invest a huge amount of money and effort in say transportation.
you can chose to believe that the fact he left out foreign policy in his speach or how he will go about tackling that front is a mere detail and that in his time as president the country will strongly strengthen US position internationally and the plan of how they will go about it will be revealed in time... OR, you can skeptically assume that foreign policy will not be the strength of his governement and that he will in fact focus his efforts on what he said he would.
obama is running for president and he announces his plans for his 4 years and states in no uncertain terms that he will focus on domestic policy most specifically the economy and health care. he also announces that, unlike his former predecesors, he will invest a huge amount of money and effort in say transportation.
you can chose to believe that the fact he left out foreign policy in his speach or how he will go about tackling that front is a mere detail and that in his time as president the country will strongly strengthen US position internationally and the plan of how they will go about it will be revealed in time... OR, you can skeptically assume that foreign policy will not be the strength of his governement and that he will in fact focus his efforts on what he said he would.
He somehow got the Nobel prize for it though.
And even a half-fried shrimp could do a better job than your previous government when it comes to foreign affairs.
But what has this got to do with the whole thing anyhow? In fact, why I am still posting in this thread?
/slapself
Feel free to use my referral link for SW:TOR if you want to test out the game. You'll get some special unlocks!
On release day: everyone will be sprinting with his/her own pet to level as fast as possible to "beat" the game.
95% of the people will say "screw" the others, My pet is more imprtant and my leveling is all that matters.
The challenge in designing an mmorpg these days is to let people group up in the easiest possible ways and ... then make a guild community after a few weeks/months worth playing.
I can see already the above images of everybody running around with his/her tanking-healing pet...
This design was logical in 2006 and 2007 even ("you level solo in that other game"), now it means failure since the newest release of cross server LFG automated tools used by Blizzard. Since then .... NPC pets simply mean "death" for an mmorpg.
You don't have to agree, it is simple logic (and what we saw in the many mmorpg releases of the last 2 years).
People will hit the button when they see a loading screen of yet another long speech monologue and will not group unless they can click "one" button. And with the henchmen besides them, they will be more interested in leveling their pets than grouping with people.
I imagine everyone remembers the images of all these mmo's these past few years quite well.
Want a real mmorpg? Play WOW with experience turned off mode and be Pve_Pvp King at any level without a rat race.
I read all the posts in this thread from top to bottom (call me old fashioned) and by the time I got here I didn't have fkin clue what it was about so skipped back up to the top to read the title and just thought, yeah I am, how clairvoyant.
-----
The person who is certain, and who claims divine warrant for his certainty, belongs now to the infancy of our species.
People need to keep in mind that many MMO's come out with rather large to extreme amounts of solo content. Champions Online came out almost entirely Solo based, with little thought about teaming (despite our complaints in Beta.)
I wish someone would make another decent game focused on team play. But with the amount of MMO goers demanding high levels of soloable content, why would developers listen to the rest of us? It may not be our fault that many MMO goers are unsociable nitwits, but they happen to be a large portion of the market.
MMO's played: Ragnarok Online (For years), WoW (for a few weeks only), Guild Wars, Lineage 2, Eve, Allods, Shattered Galaxy, 9 Dragons, City of Heroes, City of Villains, Star Trek Online (Got someone ELSE to pay for it), Champions Online (Someone else paid), Dofus, Dragonica, LOTRO, DDO and more... A LOT more. I've played good AND bad. The bad didn't last long. :P
Can you tell me something? Whats the point in having an open world if you're going to do everything grouped or what YOU call "social". Whats the point in crafting?
I ask this for a very valid reason.
When you are in a group, you can't explore because you always have to do what the majority of the group wants to do. You can't craft quietly to yourself for a while because you're in a group and the group is going to want to go do stuff. You can't harvest or collect things because its disruptive to the group, and yourself, when they want to run off and go do something else. And then there's the problem of getting too close to the group. You can't spend time decorating your characters house YOUR way because you have to concentrate on the group. Meaning... the internet is anonymous for a reason. I like that anonymity. There's a reason that I don't have ventrillo and don't use in game voice chats. Because I LIKE not becoming close friends with them.
Now, I'm not saying that grouping is bad. I'm just saying that its good in small doses. I don't mind chatting via a typing mechanism because it lets me keep things like and away from the personal crap that voice chat can so easily get into.
I like soloing because I can do all those things without worrying that I'm going to tick someone off. Now, I do group occasionally so i'm not antisocial, I just tend to find most people aggravating as hell. And I work with the public every single day. The last thing I want to do is come home to deal with yet more aggravating idiots. I get to CHOOSE when I group and if I want to. Its much better than being FORCED to group just to play the game like DnDO did. I'd have loved to play that game. The problem is the "grouping only" thing ticked me off.
Every Friday night I play real role playing games using pen, paper and dice with a group of real people in real life. I do this voluntarily. If you want to do nothing but play with a group all the time, then get your fix in real life and get a gaming group together instead of trying to force everyone to do nothing but group in online games.
Thanks.
Word use is very much key, you know.
I said "MMO's come out with rather large to extreme amounts of solo content."
It is this which annoys me. Massively MULTIPLAYER Online games should be just that. Massive games where huge groups can come together and play. Some degree of solo content is all fine and dandy, but when a game is based so heavily on solo content, I can't help but wonder why these people don't just go and play a singleplayer game, of which there and hundreds to thousands out there. Sure, a large number of those singleplayers are not very well made, or have various problems with them, but they are games built on Solo. Sure, some of them come with Co-op, but that is entirely optional. Some even come with multiplayer, but you can't usually play with huge groups. For an MMO to be incredibly singleplayer focused... it just seems utterly redundant, considering what MMO stands for.
I reiterate: Massively. MULTIPLAYER. Online.
MMO's played: Ragnarok Online (For years), WoW (for a few weeks only), Guild Wars, Lineage 2, Eve, Allods, Shattered Galaxy, 9 Dragons, City of Heroes, City of Villains, Star Trek Online (Got someone ELSE to pay for it), Champions Online (Someone else paid), Dofus, Dragonica, LOTRO, DDO and more... A LOT more. I've played good AND bad. The bad didn't last long. :P
That was an awesome fairy tale. I love hearing about the lives of people who lived eons ago.
Fast forward to the present and there is only 1 pillar, Progression (exploration is dead, crafting exists solely to pad progression, community has been dead for the past half decade). And quite frankly this single pillar structure seems to have done wonders for WoW.
And yes I realize there might be a few MMOs that don't follow the WoW mold, but with the exception of EVE they are all relatively inconsequential.
As the OP stated, most MMOs are almost entirely solo efforts these days.
Except of course for the fact that WOW relies heavily on forced grouping (raiding) at its end game and has even changed the game mechanics to make grouping easier in lower level dungeons. They must put some sort of value to it.
And while most MMO's today follow the WOW mold, did you happen to notice that for the most part they are all failures in terms of holding large numbers of players interests?
Maybe they should consider adding content from the other 3 pillars?
As for SWTOR, if its fun I'll play it, otherwise, in the ashcan it goes with the other games like WAR, LoTRO etc.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I think the point is being missed. An MMO isn't 3 players together in an instance while 3 other players are doing the same thing, in a different instance of the exact same thing. An MMO is about a persistant universe where your actions affect other players in my opinion, but rarely does any MMO seem to be able to claim that recently. If TOR is just a jumble of different groups of players doing the exact same thing at the same time then no, it is not what I personally would consider a true MMO, but by all intents and purposes using todays standards of online persistant gaming then yes, it is an MMO. Just a terrible one.
Jam is sticky.
ToR=Fail, based on the assumptions of Story being being the missing link in a popular MMO and the replayability of varying story lines.
The devs already said the game is very "solo" friendly with the option of Companions I see "solo" friendly as being, the best ingame can be achieved through soloing.
The devs also stated, the best "items" ingame come from mission rewards, if all Missions are soloable, what need is there for the MMO aspect? It may be an option to make missons easier but it doesnt qualify the game as an MMO.
Online/Social hubs do not make an MMO, interaction that REQUIRES more then just talking in Chat is what makes an MMO.
There is a reason the game was delayed another year, simply, everyone saw the game for what it was..and so did the devs.
No, it doesn't equal fail when all you do is base your opinion on your perception. We don't know what final form the game will take so stop making assumptions. You know what they say about assumptions.
Ahhh... I see... you want endless raiding. Sorry to disappoint but thats the only thing thats actually MASSIVE about any of these games.
Sorry to dissapoint you Moi but raiding is not all "these" games have to offer. The problem, among many as I have read it here during the week is people have a very narrow vision of what an MMO is. Not to nit-pick but most games have followed World of Warcrafts formula one way or another and people cannot grasp anything but the spoon fed rinse repeat PVE formula anymore. Anything that deviates from this is met with cries of "what do I do next".
Jam is sticky.