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General: Fiddle of Gold - Also Available in Shop

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  • hfztthfztt Member RarePosts: 1,401

    "More recently, other games have joined the “subscription plus” mix, including DDO Unlimited (which, despite offering a subscription, still has RMTs only available in the DDO Store)"

    But it is worth noting that the subscription actually gives you 500 points to shop for each month. This blurs the core concept of RMT, be course its more Point Tradeing than Real Money Tradeing. One can argue that I am splitting the hair mighty thin, but it does mean that every aspect of the game is available to the subscription holders.

  • UnsungTooUnsungToo Member Posts: 276

    Do the gamers really need to specifically say "Pull it out, pull it out!".?.. I don't think so. They're standing there with the KY in their hand and a big gnarly grin on their face. They know exactly what they're doing. And that's what's ticking us off.

    I'm gonna let'em hang themselves.

     

    Godspeed my fellow gamer

  • Timberwolf0Timberwolf0 Member Posts: 424

    "Over time, the Marketplace has come to be accepted by the player base, with occasional uprisings at new items, such as the race change potion offered a few months ago after a change to racial abilities."

    I guess you are forgetting the downswing in subs. The people who didn't like it left, they voted with their dollars. Item shops are the worst thing to ever happen to MMORPGs. I won't play any game with an item shop. The fundamental requirement of any game is that it be fair. I play games to test skill, cash shops are crap because then the person who wins is the one with the biggest wallet. That person is also the biggest sucker because what they are buying is empty.

    Cash shops are just a greedy companies way of saying "We don't care what you think" to the players and in my opinion makes it no less than a poorly hidden cash sink where the person who pays the most money to the company gets the most I win buttons. Frankly the addition of a cash shop takes the G out of the MMORPG. As I said before the fundamental part of what makes a game is that it must be fair. You wouldn't play a chess match where your opponent got even a single extra pawn, as the aggregate advantages of that additional piece multiply down through end game. Money sinks such as these have no place even being covered in a website which purports itself to be about Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Games, let alone be the subject of staff columns. 



    GOOD DAY SIR

  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 24,439

    “We say that we want the items to be available in game for virtual funds, but complain if microtransactions don't offer exclusive items, and if exclusive items are offered, complain there's no way to get those items in game. Quite simply, we are contradictory consumers.”

    This is where Jaime Skelton hits on the unfortunate truth, we are suckers for a cool item or a xp potion. How can we expect MMO’s to maintain a fair playing field and have no cash shop when so many will just buy and buy?

    We need to stick to the subscription only model, raise the sub if more cash is needed. I expect a MMO to cost more over time with inflation. One of fee for major DLC is fine too, as long as it is not an excuse to charge. Certain services like server transfer should be charged for. Name changing should be charged for and be subject to an investigation as to why the player is changing their name. Class and race changes should not be allowed.

    Finally staff writers are really taking note of this issue, lets hope MMO staff are too!

    Up the sub, keep it fair, everyone is happy.

  • NesrieNesrie Member Posts: 648

    If there is full price retail box plus a sub, I will not pay for microtrans. I never have and don't see that changing anytime soon. If its F2P, well they have to get their money someplace but even then when they do things like levelingg sigils, forget it.  There will always be someone out there willing to throw their money at anything and everything. I doubt that most sub game communities are as accepting as stated. I'd like to see numbers, percentage of players who buy this stuff.

    parrotpholk-Because we all know the miracle patch fairy shows up the night before release and sprinkles magic dust on the server to make it allllll better.

  • TerranahTerranah Member UncommonPosts: 3,575

    Ever since people here told me I would destroy the mmo genre by purchasing things from an mmo item shop I have been very excited.  I want to destroy all mmo's everywhere, and unless I am paid $100 million I will buy a costume pack and bring this genre to its knees.

  • slashbeastslashbeast Member Posts: 533

    I don't care what anyone says or how great their logic is, I'll never play a F2P title. Never. I'll quit MMOs for good and go back to RTS and FPS games.

    It's P2P or bust for me.

  • thinktank001thinktank001 Member UncommonPosts: 2,144

    RMT is never acceptable in any game if it does not improve every players experience. 

    F2P does not fall under this rule, since those games are designed with their Item Malls as being the foundation. 

    With that stated the only RMT I have seen that was implemented correctly is EVE's PLEX program.  

     

     

  • nefermornefermor Member Posts: 70

    I think one of the biggest problems is that the companies rely on sources of information regarding player perspective that are not very reliable.   Forums for example while there are some honest players on them have many dishonest players posting on them and some posters who are not even playing the game.

    Another bad source is information merchants who often I think sell canned out dated demographic info regarding target audiences. 

     

    That being said no matter now passionate members of the game company are, they can only work with the information they have.

     

    The best idea IMO for learning what the player base of any game wants is in game surveys, because many players never even read the forums.

     

     RMT is fine as long as it does not give advantage in game success of one player over others.  I don't mind paying real money for eye candy as long as its small cash and so far that's what I have seen.  I wont play a game that requires you to pay extra to advance though, even if its free.

  • OzmodanOzmodan Member EpicPosts: 9,726

    You were doing fine until you mentioned "passionate" and "Smedley" and "Macquaid" in the same sentence.   The only thing Smedley is passionate about is the bottom line.  The gamers experience is not something he cares one lick about.

  • TaiphozTaiphoz Member UncommonPosts: 353

    The Author of this article seems to think the community in an mmo is confused about what they want, well I say YOUR the one that's confusing an/any mmo community with a single minded BORG HIVE.

    We all have our own situations, and opinions, the problem for me, for example with RMT is that I dont have the extra money to spend on these extra items, and when I see other players running around in tons of cool stuff that I simply cannot get due to my lack of real money it makes me frustraited and less willing to play their game.

    Now on the flip side of that, if I was working, and had the free money I would have no objection to paying for the items, does that make me confused, NO just makes me aware of my current situation and unhappy that I cannot get my hands on stuff offered to others just because they happen to be more wealthy.

    Also then consider the number of teenage players, and the fact that a vast majority of them neither work , nor have parents willing to fork out additional money for a game their already paying for, just for some item they themselves see no value in.

     

    My Feeling on the who system is that any items being sold for real money, MUST be available in the game, either by boss dropping or in game currency, and any unique RTM items should be pure cosmetic..

    if I had my way , there would be no RMT at all.

  • DignaDigna Member UncommonPosts: 1,994

    99% of demands to gaming companies will be tossed in the garbage disposal. The only 'demands' that are occasionally heard and acted upon are game-breaker issues and those ONLY when the vast majority of 'paying customers' cry out for justice.

    Doesn't happen very much anymore....

  • SonokoSonoko Member UncommonPosts: 41

    "The problem wasn't that it was a limited edition due to the holidays. It's that the emotes in particular were available in game as purchasable items."

     

    Buh?  The problem in Aion was that the two dyes in those packs, red and pink, are completely unobtainable in the game through normal means.  It's essentially $10 for 5 dyes, which you can't even preview in game or reuse in any way.  So fork out $10 for every set of gear you wish to dye, ever.  For every character.   And the really, really insulting part?  These dyes, and more, have been in the game since day 1.  People have asked for ways to make them obtainable, and then they go and put them up for sale for real life money.  For a game you're already paying $15/mo for.

    And on the other end, if someone really wanted to pay for the emotes (lol), they're a mere 11k each.  When a single piece of vendor trash gives 200-300k+, well, that's kind of insulting given the price.  Any complaint directed toward that was pointing out how utterly stupid it was, just a cheap way of making it look like it's more than 5 dyes.

    I just went back and noticed somebody pointed this out, but really...  It needs to be reiterated.  Seeing as it was your entire basis for a community being for RMT, and it's completely false.

  • DiviousDivious Member Posts: 37

    Dear Jaime:

    The article you just wrote just brings to light the blind spot the industry has for RMT(A.K.A player fleecing), however if you can only come up whit the question:

    ''Is the MMO community split on what we want when it comes to microtransactions? Or are we confused?''

    then you clearly do not see the point in all this...and this article is just for shows.

    Good day to you.

  • MESS14HMESS14H Member Posts: 33

    Imagin you go to a hardware store to buy a jet wash to clean your car with. You get home and you realize that it doesn't come with a hose, a brush, or any of the attachments. The jet wash will function without all of these things but you wont be very successful in cleaning your car without them. So you head off back to the hardware store and they have them there on sale so you buy them.

    To put this in too mmo terms if we pay a sub (cost of detergent for our jet wash) we then have all we need to continue using our jet wash. but given time our jet wash will suffer ware tare so we may need new parts (expansion packs) to keep it running. if we had a jet wash that required us to shell out for a new part every week or even every month for that matter we wouldn't consider the original purchase of the jet wash was to be of very good valuefor money and we would most likely seek out another brand of jet wash, this time round much wiser as to what add-ons and accessories you got with the primary purchase. In my opinion the value for money that you get from an mmo is only cheapened by having an item shop, were as in the past, the model of an mmo has always been accepted that we get this value from our sub + the odd expation every 8 month or so. Of corse a gaming company that wishes to implement an item shop would! want us to believe that we would be getting a better gaming experience by having one but I myself am not convinced. Yes I do pay for the added extras but only because the original purchase did not include them. However if i find that i am having to pay for theses added extras far too often i will soon feel that I am not getting value for money and i will most likely look elsewhere.

     

  • wootinwootin Member Posts: 259

    Sorry, playing MMOs doesn't make me a member of your artificial "MMO community", nor do I need to be in order to have influence. I pay MMO subscription fees - that's all I need to speak, be heard, and vote with my wallet.

    So count me OUT of  the MMO "community". I would much rather be a lone voice than a part of a mob-rule entity that claims to speak for everyone, but invariably ends up expressing the viewpoint of those that just shout the loudest.

  • MESS14HMESS14H Member Posts: 33
    Originally posted by wootin


    Sorry, playing MMOs doesn't make me a member of your artificial "MMO community", nor do I need to be in order to have influence. I pay MMO subscription fees - that's all I need to speak, be heard, and vote with my wallet.
    So count me OUT of  the MMO "community". I would much rather be a lone voice than a part of a mob-rule entity that claims to speak for everyone, but invariably ends up expressing the viewpoint of those that just shout the loudest.



     

    I apologies if i suggested anything of an " Artificial "MMO Community"" in any way. I was hoping to give an idea of a general consumers point of view.

     

  • Calintz333Calintz333 Member UncommonPosts: 1,193

     F2p mmorpg games = cash shop, Fine acceptable you need to make money some how, your choice if you want to go cash shop for your revenue. Do they charge a subscription fee? NO.

     

    P2P games = 15/mo hell sometimes a bit more, I pay $17 dollars a month for FFXI because I have 5 characters, That being said,  I can obtain everything in the game without any microtransactions. The way It should be for a fair and balanced game. 

    Adding a cash shop to a P2P game is just pushing it.  Kinda like the insurance company in CA raising insurance  premiums by 25% all of a sudden and the entire state broke in an outrage, they then decided to stall the premium hike. Lesson here is, if you don't like what the P2P companies are doing, show them by not playing their games, and by speaking out against them. Myself?

     

    I was a avid Pirates of the burning sea  player. SoE added Cash shop to many of their games, well I no longer want to do business with that company. I believe its not ethical what they did. Do I miss pirates? Hell yeah, Did I have a lot of friends in pirates that I left behind over this? You bet. Do I talk to them on Vent almost daily and keep checking up on whats happening in game, yeah. Does the game have an item mall too? No but thats besides the point.  Do I regret it? Not one bit, its called integrity. I would not feel right supporting a company that in my eyes is extorting and abusing its players even if its not directly affecting me. 

     

    The difference is between the guy who said "Yeah Im all for green economy, and supporting our environment" Then he goes out and buys a hamburger at Mcdonalds, in his Hummer,  and trowing the cardboard box in the trash can. Sure hey may donate 5-10 dollars a year to the Sierra club, but the majority of his actions don't support what he speaks. 

     

    Then you got the guy who said "I care about the environment" actually recycles daily, is a Member of Greenpeace and Sierra club, participates in protests, cuts back on his meat intake, and rides a bike to and from work. This is the man I admire. 

    This is the difference between  players. Some will complain bit#ch and cry on the forums, then go off and buy what they sell. To them I say cut the crap. 

     

    Some players Complain on the forums and bi#ch and cry, but then they go and not buy anything of what the game is offering in their item malls, they don't give in, to them I say good for you.

     

    Then you have the players who just quit playing the game say they are going to and actually do it, I believe these players are the minority. They are the ones that will actually make a difference in the long run.

     

    Then you got players like myself who regardless of the game even if it does not affect me If I see a company do something that I find ethically wrong I stop supporting them all together.  Example, Microsoft did not address the problems with Xbox 360 RROD until over 2 years after the console fail rate was over 50%. Sure they made up for it later, and I do cut them some slack for that, but did I buy another 360, no. Will I buy another Xbox product again? Probably not. If some one gave me an Xbox360 would I buy games for them, Sure why not, Like I said I cut them some slack.  

     

    Different people deal with  these issues differently. Some just complain, and some actually do something about it. 

  • FormlessOneFormlessOne Member UncommonPosts: 35

    I think that my reaction to MTs depends on the game itself - I don't have a convenient "blanket policy" that covers all MMOs.

    I don't like the appearance of "double dipping." If I think that the game producer is attempting to drum up cash by using RMT to sell features and items that should already be in the game, I'll balk at that. Cryptic and Star Trek Online is a fine example, in which it's obvious (at least to me) that they planned on selling access to Klingon and Ferengi races for Federation characters using RMT (and their proprietary cross-game scrip), even though those races should already be in-game. If the items purchased through RMTs have no in-game advantage, then I'm just fine with that - the pets sold by Blizzard and Cryptic in World of Warcraft and Champions Online, respectively, are great in that I can "personalize" my account without feeling forced to do so.

    I hate the idea that, for a game in which effort, not time, is rewarded, no one should be able to simply out-buy a hard-working player. The contempt many gamers have for those who, for example, buy accounts on eBay, extends to this behavior as well. I won't play a game where simply spending more cash gets me in-game advantages that other, poorer players have to spend weeks or months earning - it offends my sense of sportsmanship and fair play.

    I don't trust F2P + RMT models simply because it's hard to judge the cost of a game in aggregate - my budget is limited, and I can't afford to have a night of bad gameplay actually affect my wallet. Never mind the fact that I'm not "leet," the idea that some schmuck in a group can not only sabotage a group, but cost players real money as a result, rankles. There are too many schmucks out there. I was a DDO founder, but I left long before their F2P model kicked in.

    I won't pay for expansions unless the expansion is worth it. Smedley's Folly broke me of that - just a couple of days after Star Wars Galaxies sold their expansion for a pretty penny to players, they then replaced our complex sandbox game with a friggin' first-person shooter designed for kids - and then initially balked when folks angrily demanded the money back for the expansion. We all know the history of Smedley's Folly, so I'll skip the rest of the rant, but my point is that I certainly won't buy an expansion for a "new" (i.e., less than a year old) game, and I'll cautiously approach purchasing an expansion for any other game.

    image

  • huntardhuntard Member Posts: 133

     Im all for RMT the more they offer the more i and my friends will continue to purchase! I will continue to fund them as long as they continue to offer them! .. 110% for RMT!

  • etikilametikilam Member Posts: 41

    I hate micro transactions more than anything else in this world. But they are here to stay. They cost companies absolutely nothing to produce, ship, and sell. Just a single person buying them essentially represents profit. No amount of angry nerds on the internet will deter a company from what is essentially free money. What we need is legislation to stop this exploitation.

  • NesrieNesrie Member Posts: 648
    Originally posted by etikilam


    I hate micro transactions more than anything else in this world. But they are here to stay. They cost companies absolutely nothing to produce, ship, and sell. Just a single person buying them essentially represents profit. No amount of angry nerds on the internet will deter a company from what is essentially free money. What we need is legislation to stop this exploitation.



     

    We do not need laws telling private companies their business models are garbage. That is what your wallet is for. Vote with your wallet. And while I am certain the authoer had no ill intention in trying to say the MMO community is one giant group that moves as one, she is correct in that we are a community even if loosely linked. There are still many, many gamers out there who think that paying a monthly fee for ANY game is outrageous and that group is not small. There are some game communities like the MH series has who will pay for a game that isn't even an MMO by most definitions and say it's a bargain.

    I don't think as a community we are confused however. I think the publishers are confused and when you market a game to EVERYONE you are going to get a mix of people who are willing to pay for micro ontop of their already expensive, in terms of value given, sub and people who are not. That's not a confused community, that's a community made up of mixed mindsets which makes it a balancing act which, frankly, I think some of the new games are not doing too well. If i pay my 10-15 a month and feel cheated, I am gone. Just like that. I will not pay micro trans on top of subs. I think its a joke to even claim that 15 a month, the millions of dollars that games like WoW pulls in isn't enough to pay for servers AND new content.

    parrotpholk-Because we all know the miracle patch fairy shows up the night before release and sprinkles magic dust on the server to make it allllll better.

  • NildenNilden Member EpicPosts: 3,916

    The biggest thing is how the player sees the use of RMT. If it's a free to play game and you buy something to help support the game and feel like it's worth the cost or if your paying $15 already and feel like the company is double dipping on something that should be included anyway. It's a fine line on what exactly is being offered.

    The cow can tell if it's being lovingly hand milked or if you just stuck a cold steel uncaring vacuum on it to drain it dry.

    "You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon

    "classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon

    Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer

    Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/ 

  • storm-dragonstorm-dragon Member Posts: 157

    This is how I look at it.

    If I like a game enough I will pay for it, via subscription, cash shop or a combination of both. I make my own determinations, pulling a Norma Rae on something that is meant to be entertainment is a bit Tarded IMHO.



    If you don't want to support their Business model don't, but do not for one second believe that you are going to have an impact.  For every gamer filled with righteous indignation over MT's there are 500 standing in line to pay for something they perceive as valuble, and their perception is non of your business,  and if you belive that it is your are not coming from a players perspective but a social Engineers perspective.

     

    This sword here at my side dont act the way it should
    Keeps calling me its master, but I feel like its slave
    Hauling me faster and faster to an early, early grave
    And it howls! it howls like hell!

  • brostynbrostyn Member, Newbie CommonPosts: 3,092

    I don't mind RMT games. I don't care if its "f2p", or a sub game with RMT shop. I've bought stuff from EQ and DDO. They have enhanced my gaming experience. In no way have those additions effected my gameplay in a negative manner. I didn't have to buy those items. I could of continued to play like I had before the shops were introduced, but I decided to get some XP potions to speed the process up.

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