Just an update the new players can't be griefed by stealing from their loot cans. The cans are secure for a specific amount of time and then open for others to take from them if the owner left them and the timer has ran out.
Hmm... EVE's system is quite better... if someone bullies/griefs you stealing your cans you can just hotdrop a few buddies on him and police will consider it a "legitimate defense" action.
It's a nice middle way between "you can grief without consequences" and "you cannot grief at all".
EVE's PVP and griefing system is actually quite well thought out and caters to pretty much all play styles, from Carebear to Killer.
Few other PVP MMO's achieve a similar balance hence they don't have 300K subs. One thing is certain, unrestricted ganking (especially if the victims have no chance to fight back) leads to very low sub numbers. (or cash in your shop)
Developers of this game do well to remember this.
I know there's a market for the "hardcore" PVPer, but its a small market in the long run.
And to the GM who said why would they restrict game play in a sandbox, the real world is the ultimate sandbox and its full of restrictions to the gameplay. Sure,we have PVP combat, but only according to a certain ruleset, at certain times, and those who break those rules face harsh consequences. (such as permadeath)
MMO's really shouldn't be that much different.
Yes, Perpetuum will need to be live first and have a lot of subs and more islands before then make the same type of setting of open griefing type system EVE has....
EVE's PVP and griefing system is actually quite well thought out and caters to pretty much all play styles, from Carebear to Killer.
Few other PVP MMO's achieve a similar balance hence they don't have 300K subs. One thing is certain, unrestricted ganking (especially if the victims have no chance to fight back) leads to very low sub numbers. (or cash in your shop)
Developers of this game do well to remember this.
So would the players who think it's "cool" and "makes them hardcore" to hang out in newbie areas griefing brand-new players 'til they leave in disgust.
MMOs need a lot of players to "work"... this is especially so for PvP MMOs. If you have a relative handful of asshats whose only goal in life is "prove how hardcore they are" by running off new players... then that's not conducive to a game growing, which is not conducive to a developer making more money, which is not conducive to the game growing or - if bad enough - lasting very long.
People love to use Eve as the example that FFA PvP can work. And it's a valid example. But think about it about it.. Eve also has areas, high sec space, that are safe for new players to learn the game and get their bearings. Shadowbane - arguably the most "hardcore" open PvP MMO in the last decade - had an area where a player was safe to learn the game and develop their character to level 20 before they were kicked into the full PvP areas (they could leave sooner if they wanted)...
There is absolutely nothing wrong with having starting areas where brand-new players are able to get to learn the game without having to deal with a group of asshats who think it's the ultimate in hardcore PvP to prey on brand-new players who can only run away or die in response.
Sadly, I don't think most of the type who think it's "hardcore" to chase brand-new players out of a game have the mental capacity to realize the effect their actions can have on a game that they - presumably - enjoy playing. All they know is "I'm killing newbies!!! I am teh hardcore!!!!". And of course, when such a game fails, who do the newbie griefers blame? They blame the "carebears" they made it a point to try and chase off.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
EVE's PVP and griefing system is actually quite well thought out and caters to pretty much all play styles, from Carebear to Killer.
Few other PVP MMO's achieve a similar balance hence they don't have 300K subs. One thing is certain, unrestricted ganking (especially if the victims have no chance to fight back) leads to very low sub numbers. (or cash in your shop)
Developers of this game do well to remember this.
So would the players who think it's "cool" and "makes them hardcore" to hang out in newbie areas griefing brand-new players 'til they leave in disgust.
MMOs need a lot of players to "work"... this is especially so for PvP MMOs. If you have a relative handful of asshats whose only goal in life is "prove how hardcore they are" by running off new players... then that's not conducive to a game growing, which is not conducive to a developer making more money, which is not conducive to the game growing or - if bad enough - lasting very long.
People love to use Eve as the example that FFA PvP can work. And it's a valid example. But think about it about it.. Eve also has areas, high sec space, that are safe for new players to learn the game and get their bearings. Shadowbane - arguably the most "hardcore" open PvP MMO in the last decade - had an area where a player was safe to learn the game and develop their character to level 20 before they were kicked into the full PvP areas (they could leave sooner if they wanted)...
There is absolutely nothing wrong with having starting areas where brand-new players are able to get to learn the game without having to deal with a group of asshats who think it's the ultimate in hardcore PvP to prey on brand-new players who can only run away or die in response.
Sadly, I don't think most of the type who think it's "hardcore" to chase brand-new players out of a game have the mental capacity to realize the effect their actions can have on a game that they - presumably - enjoy playing. All they know is "I'm killing newbies!!! I am teh hardcore!!!!". And of course, when such a game fails, who do the newbie griefers blame? They blame the "carebears" they made it a point to try and chase off.
This is a very good summary of a couple of games I have played.
"Never met a pack of humans that were any different. Look at the idiots that get elected every couple of years. You really consider those guys more mature than us? The only difference between us and them is, when they gank some noobs and take their stuff, the noobs actually die." - Madimorga
Originally posted by WSIMike Originally posted by Kyleran
EVE's PVP and griefing system is actually quite well thought out and caters to pretty much all play styles, from Carebear to Killer. Few other PVP MMO's achieve a similar balance hence they don't have 300K subs. One thing is certain, unrestricted ganking (especially if the victims have no chance to fight back) leads to very low sub numbers. (or cash in your shop) Developers of this game do well to remember this. So would the players who think it's "cool" and "makes them hardcore" to hang out in newbie areas griefing brand-new players 'til they leave in disgust. MMOs need a lot of players to "work"... this is especially so for PvP MMOs. If you have a relative handful of asshats whose only goal in life is "prove how hardcore they are" by running off new players... then that's not conducive to a game growing, which is not conducive to a developer making more money, which is not conducive to the game growing or - if bad enough - lasting very long. People love to use Eve as the example that FFA PvP can work. And it's a valid example. But think about it about it.. Eve also has areas, high sec space, that are safe for new players to learn the game and get their bearings. Shadowbane - arguably the most "hardcore" open PvP MMO in the last decade - had an area where a player was safe to learn the game and develop their character to level 20 before they were kicked into the full PvP areas (they could leave sooner if they wanted)... There is absolutely nothing wrong with having starting areas where brand-new players are able to get to learn the game without having to deal with a group of asshats who think it's the ultimate in hardcore PvP to prey on brand-new players who can only run away or die in response. Sadly, I don't think most of the type who think it's "hardcore" to chase brand-new players out of a game have the mental capacity to realize the effect their actions can have on a game that they - presumably - enjoy playing. All they know is "I'm killing newbies!!! I am teh hardcore!!!!". And of course, when such a game fails, who do the newbie griefers blame? They blame the "carebears" they made it a point to try and chase off. One very important note, hi-sec in eve is safer, not safe. There is NO safe place in eve (outside of station), you can always be tracked and killed (but in hi-sec w/o a valid war, you will also have to suffer consequences).
As for chasing off newbies, this goes in eve too (but in a different scale, when there is newbie corp created and hits 50+ members it almost automatically gets war dced by random 7-9 member group of experienced PVP players) and this pretty much works as natural selection of said game (if you cannot stand for yourself, you will NOT enjoy [insert FFA PvP game name here] so to save time, leave now). And this is really good, but only as long as newbies have a fighting chance to fight back (granted, they will NOT win the war, but they will stand for themselves) which apparently is not the case here, while in eve they have pretty good chance.
One very important note, hi-sec in eve is safer, not safe. There is NO safe place in eve (outside of station), you can always be tracked and killed (but in hi-sec w/o a valid war, you will also have to suffer consequences).
As for chasing off newbies, this goes in eve too (but in a different scale, when there is newbie corp created and hits 50+ members it almost automatically gets war dced by random 7-9 member group of experienced PVP players) and this pretty much works as natural selection of said game (if you cannot stand for yourself, you will NOT enjoy [insert FFA PvP game name here] so to save time, leave now). And this is really good, but only as long as newbies have a fighting chance to fight back (granted, they will NOT win the war, but they will stand for themselves) which apparently is not the case here, while in eve they have pretty good chance.
The more important think to note is that while your example is quite valid (I experienced it first hand) EVE still provides players a choice to participate or they can withdraw back into the safer NPC's corps which cannot be wardec'd.
That's the real secret to making these games work, Developers have to throw away this strange notion that a sandbox game shouldn't restrict anyone's play style when in fact careful attention must be paid to make sure those who enjoy griefing others don't have the decked stacked so much in their favor that they drive away players with a different play style.
I'm a carebear for the most part, yet I love playing EVE because it lets me manage the amount of risk I'm willing to take. Also the game mechanics make it quite possible for me to avoid trouble, even when I venture into 0.0 or low sec space.
If PO fails to provide similar controls it will be relegated to the niche bin more quickly than DFO.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Note that they changed the can mechanics since this thread started. They are locked now for a time, I don't know for how long.
"Never met a pack of humans that were any different. Look at the idiots that get elected every couple of years. You really consider those guys more mature than us? The only difference between us and them is, when they gank some noobs and take their stuff, the noobs actually die." - Madimorga
Whoever gets firt hit on mob gets the can, believe its code locked to everyone else for several minutes.
Not ahd and PvP griefing since I dont flag myself for PvP
other than that I am enjoying this game, runnig round killing mobs, joined a Corporation adn now we have Squads of us runnign around killing stuff, its good fun, sure has potential
Maybe this game will eventually have PU (Perpetuum University) like EU (EVE University) where new players can join and learn the game from long time players. Then they can travel in large groups of starter mechs and take on the griefers for fun and profit.
Comments
Yes, Perpetuum will need to be live first and have a lot of subs and more islands before then make the same type of setting of open griefing type system EVE has....
this guy obviously wants a peaceful carebear game.. its called WoW.. Leave our sandbox alone. THIS GAME IS GONNA BE GREAT! keep up the good work devs
with that said please allow seatling from cans with a flag.. like in EVE.. that system is more realistic and awesome.. Can flipping rules.!
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
This is a very good summary of a couple of games I have played.
"Never met a pack of humans that were any different. Look at the idiots that get elected every couple of years. You really consider those guys more mature than us? The only difference between us and them is, when they gank some noobs and take their stuff, the noobs actually die." - Madimorga
Few other PVP MMO's achieve a similar balance hence they don't have 300K subs. One thing is certain, unrestricted ganking (especially if the victims have no chance to fight back) leads to very low sub numbers. (or cash in your shop)
Developers of this game do well to remember this.
So would the players who think it's "cool" and "makes them hardcore" to hang out in newbie areas griefing brand-new players 'til they leave in disgust.
MMOs need a lot of players to "work"... this is especially so for PvP MMOs. If you have a relative handful of asshats whose only goal in life is "prove how hardcore they are" by running off new players... then that's not conducive to a game growing, which is not conducive to a developer making more money, which is not conducive to the game growing or - if bad enough - lasting very long.
People love to use Eve as the example that FFA PvP can work. And it's a valid example. But think about it about it.. Eve also has areas, high sec space, that are safe for new players to learn the game and get their bearings. Shadowbane - arguably the most "hardcore" open PvP MMO in the last decade - had an area where a player was safe to learn the game and develop their character to level 20 before they were kicked into the full PvP areas (they could leave sooner if they wanted)...
There is absolutely nothing wrong with having starting areas where brand-new players are able to get to learn the game without having to deal with a group of asshats who think it's the ultimate in hardcore PvP to prey on brand-new players who can only run away or die in response.
Sadly, I don't think most of the type who think it's "hardcore" to chase brand-new players out of a game have the mental capacity to realize the effect their actions can have on a game that they - presumably - enjoy playing. All they know is "I'm killing newbies!!! I am teh hardcore!!!!". And of course, when such a game fails, who do the newbie griefers blame? They blame the "carebears" they made it a point to try and chase off.
One very important note, hi-sec in eve is safer, not safe. There is NO safe place in eve (outside of station), you can always be tracked and killed (but in hi-sec w/o a valid war, you will also have to suffer consequences).
As for chasing off newbies, this goes in eve too (but in a different scale, when there is newbie corp created and hits 50+ members it almost automatically gets war dced by random 7-9 member group of experienced PVP players) and this pretty much works as natural selection of said game (if you cannot stand for yourself, you will NOT enjoy [insert FFA PvP game name here] so to save time, leave now). And this is really good, but only as long as newbies have a fighting chance to fight back (granted, they will NOT win the war, but they will stand for themselves) which apparently is not the case here, while in eve they have pretty good chance.
The more important think to note is that while your example is quite valid (I experienced it first hand) EVE still provides players a choice to participate or they can withdraw back into the safer NPC's corps which cannot be wardec'd.
That's the real secret to making these games work, Developers have to throw away this strange notion that a sandbox game shouldn't restrict anyone's play style when in fact careful attention must be paid to make sure those who enjoy griefing others don't have the decked stacked so much in their favor that they drive away players with a different play style.
I'm a carebear for the most part, yet I love playing EVE because it lets me manage the amount of risk I'm willing to take. Also the game mechanics make it quite possible for me to avoid trouble, even when I venture into 0.0 or low sec space.
If PO fails to provide similar controls it will be relegated to the niche bin more quickly than DFO.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Note that they changed the can mechanics since this thread started. They are locked now for a time, I don't know for how long.
"Never met a pack of humans that were any different. Look at the idiots that get elected every couple of years. You really consider those guys more mature than us? The only difference between us and them is, when they gank some noobs and take their stuff, the noobs actually die." - Madimorga
Whoever gets firt hit on mob gets the can, believe its code locked to everyone else for several minutes.
Not ahd and PvP griefing since I dont flag myself for PvP
other than that I am enjoying this game, runnig round killing mobs, joined a Corporation adn now we have Squads of us runnign around killing stuff, its good fun, sure has potential
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/ab/Norsefire-logo.png
Maybe this game will eventually have PU (Perpetuum University) like EU (EVE University) where new players can join and learn the game from long time players. Then they can travel in large groups of starter mechs and take on the griefers for fun and profit.
So where is this noob zone griefing? I haven't seen it.
All three starter islands are consensual PVP only(you have to flag yourself for PVP), you can't loot other people's can, you can't shoot cans at all.
Lots of 'fixes' were done to griefing. No idea if those are temporary hot fixes or planned to stay.
yep atm in beta i dont see much griefing
BestSigEver :P
