At the very least online rpgs could have multiple choice options to allow players to roleplay a character (gosh! Roleplaying in an rpg?! What ever next!) and cause different plot lines to unfold.
Easy to do in a single player game. Not so easy to do in a multi player game.
Agreed. If you try, you get slandered as making a single-player co-op game with a monthly fee (which is obviously not worth paying for, despite all the other features common to MMOs that are in that game).
You're sarcasm has put a smile on my face
The irony of people slandering mmos like this (like the new star wars mmo for example) is that most mmos are in fact single-player games with co-op features plonked on a server. However because they can see lots of other people running around them playing their own individual copies of the same online single-player game (with the "option" of teaming up) then they accept it as a genuine multiplayer game......even though it isnt one.
I haven't tried DDO quests, but I might. I'm playing LotRO and I enjoy the quests, though they're not much different than other MMOs. At least they try to inject some story and help you immerse yourself in Middle-earth. True quests (AKA adventures) are found in RuneScape, in my opinion.
I've noticed others saying the same thing about the quests in Runescape actually
Yes, I hate what questing in MMOs has become; poorly thought out "content" that has you delivering packages from point A to point B, or killing 10 (insert generic animal name) and bringing back their (insert generic animal part).
I'd rather put a bullet in my head than play another MMO that has us skimming through terribly written quest dialogue times 3000 to reach level cap. Hell, hardly anyone even reads the damn things. "Give us more quests plz so we don't have to grind". What the hell is wrong with people?
With that being said, I thoroughly enjoyed the quest system in FFXI. More games like FFXI please.
I liked that I could just PvP to level and do some PQs when I wanted.
Ok, that makes sense. I hear Global Agenda is like that.
Though, with the whole PvPing to level conundrum, lets get the point of PvE getting outleveled too quickly. While I find it works for WAR, namely because the PvE made my eyes bleed, it wouldn't for a game like AoC. There are tons of mid-level group dungeons that are simply amazing, and if you could outlevel them all by grinding in PvP I would find it a shame - even if the point was to avoid the boring quests in the broader zones. I think this is one of the major reasons games don't do this, but it worked for Mythic because they got lucky, or figured the majority of the game would be so boring that they needed that option.
On Darkfall - but you need to PvE goblins+ for quite some time to even become a force to deal with in PvP. I haven't played, but that factoid is all over your subforums.
Not to get too far off topic, but Gtwander you mentioned some great dungeons in AOC. I've been thinking about coming back, but I had gotten bored just doing quests. Also, I went into Black Castle and had one of the worst experiences I've ever had in an instance (long, difficult, and lacking in good rewards). Are there any areas you could recommend for a mid-30s char?
Anyhow, I don't mind quests in games like Oblivion or Dragon Age, chiefly because there are numerous ways to do them. Also, you can choose to be a jerk or a good guy in most single player games. The whole "kill ten rats/goblins/klingons" is what makes MMOG quests stale.
OP, I'm with you 100%. I fucking HATE quest grinds.
Darkfall is your game. I always have something to do, am never bored, and NEVER do quests. The sense of freedom is amazing. No instances, no zones, no swarms of rats and boars and bears just waiting for someone to collect their parts for some NPC....and no NPCs with ! floating over their heads!!!
the funny thing is, I spend more time in a group in DF than I did in most of the quest-based MMOs. There's a stronger sense of community, and more of a reason to group (Survival).
I was about to give up on teh MMORPG genre completely because of my absolutel LOATHING of questing.....then I took the plunge and bought Darkfall. I havn't looked back.
OP, I'm with you 100%. I fucking HATE quest grinds. Darkfall is your game. I always have something to do, am never bored, and NEVER do quests. The sense of freedom is amazing. No instances, no zones, no swarms of rats and boars and bears just waiting for someone to collect their parts for some NPC....and no NPCs with ! floating over their heads!!! the funny thing is, I spend more time in a group in DF than I did in most of the quest-based MMOs. There's a stronger sense of community, and more of a reason to group (Survival). I was about to give up on teh MMORPG genre completely because of my absolutel LOATHING of questing.....then I took the plunge and bought Darkfall. I havn't looked back.
Thats the problem with quests in mmos though isnt it. They are actually contradictory to the spirit of grouping with others. The moment you start "talking" to an npc, reading all the quest text and then setting off to do what the npc has "told" you to do, is the moment when you have made the decision to play a game with the computer. The other human players are not integral to the story provided by the computer. They simply become optional counterparts that you can choose to use to make the task easier. In my opinion quests actually make grouping more of a chore. I mean really if a player is so bored with the gameplay and lack of purpose that they need to be entertained by pre-scripted stories then they may as well just play a single player game, read a book or watch a film.
In contrast with games like Darkfall the players become the characters in the "story" because they are the things that make stuff happen and inadvertantly provide you with objectives and tasks. That sense of freedom you mentioned is what mmos should be all about. Its what should seperate mmos from single player games. The whole point of mmos should be about playing games with the other players, not just running errands for computer controlled npcs.
Quests are more suited to single player games......which is probably why I used to group regularly with people in the old days of EQ1 and DAoC. With the later story telling mmos I feel little incentive at all to group with anyone. Afterall if I'm gonna read an online book then I'm gonna want to do it at my own pace like I would in any other story telling single player game. I dont really want some bouncing random kid to rush me along when I've got all that wanky quest text to churn through. Its also too much hassle finding out if they have the same quests as you, which is a big immersion breaker in itself and only serves to highlight how stupid the whole thing is anyway.
The problem isn't with the way we play the quests, it's with the quests themselves. Great story/dialogue can't cover up for the fact that your quests are cheap imitations of single player RPG quests. Even in a single player games the quests are scripted and meaningless, but at least you have the illusion that you're effecting the game world. That doesn't exist in MMORPGs. Whether you finish a quest or not, it makes absolutely no difference to any one.
Originally posted by Capn23 I try to read the quests, but when it comes down to it I really don't care that you need apples to feed your horse.
You can write the most beautiful piece about how the horse needs apples, but I don't feel like I'm making a difference by getting that stupid horse some freakin apples. Maybe if I were defending a town from orcish raiders...then I might have some emotional investment in it. However, killing bears so you can skin them and make a nice coat for grandma isn't something I want to do to level up...
No shit. These quest driven games today make you feel like you're the village idiot or something with all the NPCs ordering you around and giving you chores to do. And I really don't think it would be any better if they tried to dress it up more dramatically as per your "defend the town" scenerio because in the end it's all still just "go where I tell you and do what I tell you." And as someone else pointed out, how can you care about it when you know that thousands of other people have defended the town before you and thousands more will defend it after you and it NEVER makes a difference? The rationalization for the quest is completely irrelevent. It doesn't matter if the NPC tells you you're killing orcs because they are threatening the town or killing them because they refused to learn tap dancing. It makes no damn difference.
I hate quest based advancement so much I don'teven want to try another game like that, which probably means I won't be trying many more games. I don't mind a quest here and there but it shouldn't be the fundamental structure on which a mmorpg is based. It shouldn't be the meat and potatoes of day to day game play. That crap feels more like a grind to me than anything else I've ever experienced in a mmo.
The first time I experienced it (in WoW) they gave me this whole pile of chores to do and I was like, "Ok, I guess this is just newbie stuff so I'll put up with it." As I got my chore list whittled down to just a few I was feeling like I was almost done with that crap and I would be free soon and the "real" game would start. But then <BAM> they threw a whole new pile of chores in my face and I was like, "What the f--k, give me a break here." So I was trudging along, trying to get all my new chores done and when I was almost done and looking forward to having a break from work <BAM> they piled on a bunch more chores for me to do. I kept waiting for the fun part of the game to start but I just kept getting more work to do.
I tried to ignore my chores but the game just isn't designed to be played any other way. So I reluctantly went back to work half heartedly trying knock a few more chores off my to-do list but no matter how many I did they always added more untill I finally said to hell with it. I play games to have fun, not so I can be a flunky doing chores for NPCs.
I don't mind quests or kill x or whatever. Generally I'm playing to get my mind off of stuff so I really want it to be mindless. I never read the mission text and have to bring up the journal a lot to figure out where to go or what to do.
Poorly written quests make me want to kick a puppy. I really hate squinting at the quest text trying to figure out where "near the old barn" is. I will either look the quest up in a guide or just delete the quest and move on.
Sometimes I like a challenge and that is when I ramp up and try to do a quest that is just out of my league or PVP or something. Sometimes it is kill mobs slightly out of my range.
However, I will also hang around and kill 100+ mobs at a time one after the other as long as they're there.
If I'm in a guild, a guildie will usually have something they want me to help with. I'll go do that for a while; especially if the mobs or whatever are worth XP or there is loot to be had.
That being said, I have to have an enjoyable combat mechanic to work with. If the combat isn't fun, and I mean do it 1000 times fun, then I will go do something else.
No shit. These quest driven games today make you feel like you're the village idiot or something with all the NPCs ordering you around and giving you chores to do. And I really don't think it would be any better if they tried to dress it up more dramatically as per your "defend the town" scenerio because in the end it's all still just "go where I tell you and do what I tell you." And as someone else pointed out, how can you care about it when you know that thousands of other people have defended the town before you and thousands more will defend it after you and it NEVER makes a difference? The rationalization for the quest is completely irrelevent. It doesn't matter if the NPC tells you you're killing orcs because they are threatening the town or killing them because they refused to learn tap dancing. It makes no damn difference.
Exactly. See, in games like Darkfall...what I do MATTERS. If we don't defend the town...we don't LIVE THERE ANYMORE!!!!
Why would I kill X of Y in Darkfall?? Because I need the things it drops to make something, or one of the crafters in my clan needs them.
I don't need an NPC to tell me how to play, what to kill, and where to go next.
They give meaning and story and background to my characters... No they dont. Those pre-scripted stories have nothing to do with YOUR character as its not YOUR character. Its the devs character. They used their imaginations and created all of it. You didnt. You're just paying to borrow it and hijack a story written by someone. As Wharghoul correctly pointed out, they make you a clone of everyone else. They remove your ability to think for yourself and make your own decisions. All you can do is what the devs tell you to do. Those "quests" you are referring to are nothing more than text files. How does that make your actions meaningful? When you're stood in a field with 10 other players collecting turnips for farmer Bob do you feel unique? Do you not like the idea of creating your own story and background for your character by actually making your own decisions in the game? Espescially DDO and LOTRo have a great way of telling stories with quests Books do it better
imo MMO quests aren't supposed to give a single person a meaningful and unique experience, but give people a common goal so that it is easier to socialize and meet people, then giving unique experiences with social interactions. It is impossible for devs to give thousands of players,playing at the same time, unique and meaningful content meant for one person, however player driven content (ala darkfall seiges) can, and properly done quests increase social connections and players getting involved in player driven content. That would take quest's being scripted as moderatly long adventures that require them to be moderatly challenging to a group of 6-12 players. Sadly though, most quests have devolved into single player competition's over spawn points, ruining player socializing and the meaning of MMO quests.
imo MMO quests aren't supposed to give a single person a meaningful and unique experience, but give people a common goal so that it is easier to socialize and meet people, then giving unique experiences with social interactions. It is impossible for devs to give thousands of players,playing at the same time, unique and meaningful content meant for one person, however player driven content (ala darkfall seiges) can, and properly done quests increase social connections and players getting involved in player driven content. That would take quest's being scripted as moderatly long adventures that require them to be moderatly challenging to a group of 6-12 players. Sadly though, most quests have devolved into single player competition's over spawn points, ruining player socializing and the meaning of MMO quests.
Indeed. I think tasks (lets call them what they really are) that get dished out by npcs can add substance to a game world. They can give players a helping hand in forming their own adventures......something to work with......if the game is designed well to accomodate the players creativity. However most mmos dont do this. It seems to be one extreme or the other. The mmo either focuses exclusively on tasks and text files (themepark) as the main source of the games entertainment and the players just follow a scripted story, or it provides the players with a game world that has all the stuff a themepark has but simply has the tasks removed (sandbox). Very few of them actually provide the players with tools to create interesting situations......or even provide tasks to each other.
A game world could still be planned out beforehand by the devs and yet there really isnt any need at all to tell the players a story. What would be so hard about creating a game where there are loads of factions (ie every sentient race in the game is playable), each of which has its own main city and other settlements and allow the players to influence the states of each of those settlements? Everyone would be able to choose their own purpose in the game and help/hinder whoever they wanted......and yet there would be no need to have a story forced down their throats.
Darkfall seems to be the closest to this so far but it seems to be lacking in what people refer to as pve content, although I understand more is constantly being added. I think an mmo like this would be more lively if players could see npc settlements changing and growing due to the ebb and flow of player actions. It would all really be about flicking switches basicly.
A human knight would be able to roleplay meaningful conversations with his fellow players as he complains bitterly about those damned goblins that keep pillaging the outlying farms. It would be a meaningful conversation because those goblins would really be pillaging those farms because those goblins would be actual players. The human knight would be able to CHOOSE his own adventure and make his own choices. Other players might choose to ignore the plight of the farmers.......and those farmer npcs would give out different tasks depending on the state of their farms......or they might not ask for anything at all if their dwellings are in a good state. In that sense those tasks would serve a purpose but they wouldnt be the main focus of the game. The main focus of the game would be the players trying to influence the game world. It would certainly be a lot closer to a genuine roleplaying game than the online story tellers we currently have.
Try the ones in Runescape. They arn't just kill x pigs etc. They are usually fun/challenging/quircky/interesting/good reqards etc...
Playing: Xsyon. Played: Tried: Ultima Online, Everquest 2, Age of Conan: Hyborian Adventures, Warhammer Online: Age of Reckoning, Flyff, Perfect World, Silkroad Online, EVE Online, Ryzom.
I can't stand quests. I can do them for the first few days and then I burn out. WAR was probably the closest to what I want, but there is so much else wrong with that game that I just can't play it.
Does anyone else hate quests with a passion?
There is quests and there is QUESTS!! What do u Prefer? Grinding all the way to level 80??? No thx! What we need is quests with meaning not the "Kill x rats" thing...
I think there are two ways to get bored quickly by quests.
1) the quests of the game are boring by itself, always the same without any purpose
2) not reading the quest descriptions. If a game does it well, questing is like reading a good book (short story collection) while beeing able to participate.
One is a given, but nobody can expect today's gamer to handle number two.
People are about efficiency, they need dem levels, and all they want to know is how many rats need killin'. In games like AoC you can take a break and listen to VO, and it's proved effective as a narrative to "why" you are doing anything. At least the first time through. In a game without VO, I always suggest emotes and overhead chat-bubbles. The "activity" in the scene alone will have players pay attention, for the most part. If they can run off they will.
I think you confuse "people" with "yourself and some others". Sure, there are people who are numbercrunchers and break down an MMORPG into nothing but stats and probabilities. But there is also a large crowd of people who don't do so. Also I don't think anyone "expects" someone to read the longer quest descriptions. However, that doesn't change that, when the quests are well written, you are getting more out of them than if you don't read them. It's everyones personal decision of course. And depends on the game obviously.
I never could understand why they dont implement "meaningful" quests.... Example- Merchants have limited stock of the items they carry, when they get down to 15% or so of the "max", the merchant offers the player a quest to colllect the items they are low on. ... Mail system- Quest to really deliver the mail (make it timd so if the player fails the quest can be given to another) if nobody takes the quest the mail doesnt go anywhere....
There are so many ways to make meaningful quests (I would site more examples but I am typing in the dark and its a bitch so pls excuse my butchered english)
"Kill 10 players in the region and you get a golden reward and a further promotion to your knighthood".
or
"Win the siege battle on that Isle before dawn and you get golden coins and you'll be awarded by the King himself in armor improvements.
or
"Conquer this territory for the next hours, so we can control the lands around it and mine the resources"
or
"The territory out there is in the hands of the other faction, they got hold of an exteme secret paper, return it from this suicide mission and bring it to me before sunset. Be ware though, the other faction (of players) control it at the moment and patrol the borders.
All daily PvE quests with a PvP theme around it.
You guessed it ...it depends on the quests....
You can always kill everything around you of course and gain something from mindlessly beating 2.735NPC mobs.
What's more attractive you think ?
Want a real mmorpg? Play WOW with experience turned off mode and be Pve_Pvp King at any level without a rat race.
Comments
Easy to do in a single player game. Not so easy to do in a multi player game.
Agreed. If you try, you get slandered as making a single-player co-op game with a monthly fee (which is obviously not worth paying for, despite all the other features common to MMOs that are in that game).
You're sarcasm has put a smile on my face
The irony of people slandering mmos like this (like the new star wars mmo for example) is that most mmos are in fact single-player games with co-op features plonked on a server. However because they can see lots of other people running around them playing their own individual copies of the same online single-player game (with the "option" of teaming up) then they accept it as a genuine multiplayer game......even though it isnt one.
I haven't tried DDO quests, but I might. I'm playing LotRO and I enjoy the quests, though they're not much different than other MMOs. At least they try to inject some story and help you immerse yourself in Middle-earth. True quests (AKA adventures) are found in RuneScape, in my opinion.
I've noticed others saying the same thing about the quests in Runescape actually
OP, Second Life doesn't have any quests.
Second Life is a sandbox game.
Well shave my back and call me an elf! -- Oghren
Yes, I hate what questing in MMOs has become; poorly thought out "content" that has you delivering packages from point A to point B, or killing 10 (insert generic animal name) and bringing back their (insert generic animal part).
I'd rather put a bullet in my head than play another MMO that has us skimming through terribly written quest dialogue times 3000 to reach level cap. Hell, hardly anyone even reads the damn things. "Give us more quests plz so we don't have to grind". What the hell is wrong with people?
With that being said, I thoroughly enjoyed the quest system in FFXI. More games like FFXI please.
Ok, that makes sense. I hear Global Agenda is like that.
Though, with the whole PvPing to level conundrum, lets get the point of PvE getting outleveled too quickly. While I find it works for WAR, namely because the PvE made my eyes bleed, it wouldn't for a game like AoC. There are tons of mid-level group dungeons that are simply amazing, and if you could outlevel them all by grinding in PvP I would find it a shame - even if the point was to avoid the boring quests in the broader zones. I think this is one of the major reasons games don't do this, but it worked for Mythic because they got lucky, or figured the majority of the game would be so boring that they needed that option.
On Darkfall - but you need to PvE goblins+ for quite some time to even become a force to deal with in PvP. I haven't played, but that factoid is all over your subforums.
Not to get too far off topic, but Gtwander you mentioned some great dungeons in AOC. I've been thinking about coming back, but I had gotten bored just doing quests. Also, I went into Black Castle and had one of the worst experiences I've ever had in an instance (long, difficult, and lacking in good rewards). Are there any areas you could recommend for a mid-30s char?
Anyhow, I don't mind quests in games like Oblivion or Dragon Age, chiefly because there are numerous ways to do them. Also, you can choose to be a jerk or a good guy in most single player games. The whole "kill ten rats/goblins/klingons" is what makes MMOG quests stale.
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OP, I'm with you 100%. I fucking HATE quest grinds.
Darkfall is your game. I always have something to do, am never bored, and NEVER do quests. The sense of freedom is amazing. No instances, no zones, no swarms of rats and boars and bears just waiting for someone to collect their parts for some NPC....and no NPCs with ! floating over their heads!!!
the funny thing is, I spend more time in a group in DF than I did in most of the quest-based MMOs. There's a stronger sense of community, and more of a reason to group (Survival).
I was about to give up on teh MMORPG genre completely because of my absolutel LOATHING of questing.....then I took the plunge and bought Darkfall. I havn't looked back.
Thats the problem with quests in mmos though isnt it. They are actually contradictory to the spirit of grouping with others. The moment you start "talking" to an npc, reading all the quest text and then setting off to do what the npc has "told" you to do, is the moment when you have made the decision to play a game with the computer. The other human players are not integral to the story provided by the computer. They simply become optional counterparts that you can choose to use to make the task easier. In my opinion quests actually make grouping more of a chore. I mean really if a player is so bored with the gameplay and lack of purpose that they need to be entertained by pre-scripted stories then they may as well just play a single player game, read a book or watch a film.
In contrast with games like Darkfall the players become the characters in the "story" because they are the things that make stuff happen and inadvertantly provide you with objectives and tasks. That sense of freedom you mentioned is what mmos should be all about. Its what should seperate mmos from single player games. The whole point of mmos should be about playing games with the other players, not just running errands for computer controlled npcs.
Quests are more suited to single player games......which is probably why I used to group regularly with people in the old days of EQ1 and DAoC. With the later story telling mmos I feel little incentive at all to group with anyone. Afterall if I'm gonna read an online book then I'm gonna want to do it at my own pace like I would in any other story telling single player game. I dont really want some bouncing random kid to rush me along when I've got all that wanky quest text to churn through. Its also too much hassle finding out if they have the same quests as you, which is a big immersion breaker in itself and only serves to highlight how stupid the whole thing is anyway.
The problem isn't with the way we play the quests, it's with the quests themselves. Great story/dialogue can't cover up for the fact that your quests are cheap imitations of single player RPG quests. Even in a single player games the quests are scripted and meaningless, but at least you have the illusion that you're effecting the game world. That doesn't exist in MMORPGs. Whether you finish a quest or not, it makes absolutely no difference to any one.
No shit. These quest driven games today make you feel like you're the village idiot or something with all the NPCs ordering you around and giving you chores to do. And I really don't think it would be any better if they tried to dress it up more dramatically as per your "defend the town" scenerio because in the end it's all still just "go where I tell you and do what I tell you." And as someone else pointed out, how can you care about it when you know that thousands of other people have defended the town before you and thousands more will defend it after you and it NEVER makes a difference? The rationalization for the quest is completely irrelevent. It doesn't matter if the NPC tells you you're killing orcs because they are threatening the town or killing them because they refused to learn tap dancing. It makes no damn difference.
I hate quest based advancement so much I don'teven want to try another game like that, which probably means I won't be trying many more games. I don't mind a quest here and there but it shouldn't be the fundamental structure on which a mmorpg is based. It shouldn't be the meat and potatoes of day to day game play. That crap feels more like a grind to me than anything else I've ever experienced in a mmo.
The first time I experienced it (in WoW) they gave me this whole pile of chores to do and I was like, "Ok, I guess this is just newbie stuff so I'll put up with it." As I got my chore list whittled down to just a few I was feeling like I was almost done with that crap and I would be free soon and the "real" game would start. But then <BAM> they threw a whole new pile of chores in my face and I was like, "What the f--k, give me a break here." So I was trudging along, trying to get all my new chores done and when I was almost done and looking forward to having a break from work <BAM> they piled on a bunch more chores for me to do. I kept waiting for the fun part of the game to start but I just kept getting more work to do.
I tried to ignore my chores but the game just isn't designed to be played any other way. So I reluctantly went back to work half heartedly trying knock a few more chores off my to-do list but no matter how many I did they always added more untill I finally said to hell with it. I play games to have fun, not so I can be a flunky doing chores for NPCs.
Eh. I'm kind of an old school gamer.
I don't mind quests or kill x or whatever. Generally I'm playing to get my mind off of stuff so I really want it to be mindless. I never read the mission text and have to bring up the journal a lot to figure out where to go or what to do.
Poorly written quests make me want to kick a puppy. I really hate squinting at the quest text trying to figure out where "near the old barn" is. I will either look the quest up in a guide or just delete the quest and move on.
Sometimes I like a challenge and that is when I ramp up and try to do a quest that is just out of my league or PVP or something. Sometimes it is kill mobs slightly out of my range.
However, I will also hang around and kill 100+ mobs at a time one after the other as long as they're there.
If I'm in a guild, a guildie will usually have something they want me to help with. I'll go do that for a while; especially if the mobs or whatever are worth XP or there is loot to be had.
That being said, I have to have an enjoyable combat mechanic to work with. If the combat isn't fun, and I mean do it 1000 times fun, then I will go do something else.
Exactly. See, in games like Darkfall...what I do MATTERS. If we don't defend the town...we don't LIVE THERE ANYMORE!!!!
Why would I kill X of Y in Darkfall?? Because I need the things it drops to make something, or one of the crafters in my clan needs them.
I don't need an NPC to tell me how to play, what to kill, and where to go next.
I love quests...
They give meaning and story and background to my characters...
Espescially DDO and LOTRo have a great way of telling stories with quests
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
yeah.....the same story and background as everyone else who has done those quests.....
Just like you're all the "chosen savior of the world".
You've all "saved the life" of the same dying NPC. You've all "saved the town" from the invaders. You've all "rescued" the lost NPC.
And you probably stood in line to do it, and recieved the same rewards for your efforts.
I'm starting to hate mmo quests.
Kill x of this.
Collect x of this.
Sorry NPC John Smith I don't want to clear your garden by killing 10 bugs or harvest 5 flowers. RAGE.
imo MMO quests aren't supposed to give a single person a meaningful and unique experience, but give people a common goal so that it is easier to socialize and meet people, then giving unique experiences with social interactions. It is impossible for devs to give thousands of players,playing at the same time, unique and meaningful content meant for one person, however player driven content (ala darkfall seiges) can, and properly done quests increase social connections and players getting involved in player driven content. That would take quest's being scripted as moderatly long adventures that require them to be moderatly challenging to a group of 6-12 players. Sadly though, most quests have devolved into single player competition's over spawn points, ruining player socializing and the meaning of MMO quests.
Indeed. I think tasks (lets call them what they really are) that get dished out by npcs can add substance to a game world. They can give players a helping hand in forming their own adventures......something to work with......if the game is designed well to accomodate the players creativity. However most mmos dont do this. It seems to be one extreme or the other. The mmo either focuses exclusively on tasks and text files (themepark) as the main source of the games entertainment and the players just follow a scripted story, or it provides the players with a game world that has all the stuff a themepark has but simply has the tasks removed (sandbox). Very few of them actually provide the players with tools to create interesting situations......or even provide tasks to each other.
A game world could still be planned out beforehand by the devs and yet there really isnt any need at all to tell the players a story. What would be so hard about creating a game where there are loads of factions (ie every sentient race in the game is playable), each of which has its own main city and other settlements and allow the players to influence the states of each of those settlements? Everyone would be able to choose their own purpose in the game and help/hinder whoever they wanted......and yet there would be no need to have a story forced down their throats.
Darkfall seems to be the closest to this so far but it seems to be lacking in what people refer to as pve content, although I understand more is constantly being added. I think an mmo like this would be more lively if players could see npc settlements changing and growing due to the ebb and flow of player actions. It would all really be about flicking switches basicly.
A human knight would be able to roleplay meaningful conversations with his fellow players as he complains bitterly about those damned goblins that keep pillaging the outlying farms. It would be a meaningful conversation because those goblins would really be pillaging those farms because those goblins would be actual players. The human knight would be able to CHOOSE his own adventure and make his own choices. Other players might choose to ignore the plight of the farmers.......and those farmer npcs would give out different tasks depending on the state of their farms......or they might not ask for anything at all if their dwellings are in a good state. In that sense those tasks would serve a purpose but they wouldnt be the main focus of the game. The main focus of the game would be the players trying to influence the game world. It would certainly be a lot closer to a genuine roleplaying game than the online story tellers we currently have.
Probably because you've just played shit ones.
Try the ones in Runescape. They arn't just kill x pigs etc. They are usually fun/challenging/quircky/interesting/good reqards etc...
Playing: Xsyon.
Played:
Tried: Ultima Online, Everquest 2, Age of Conan: Hyborian Adventures, Warhammer Online: Age of Reckoning, Flyff, Perfect World, Silkroad Online, EVE Online, Ryzom.
There is quests and there is QUESTS!! What do u Prefer? Grinding all the way to level 80??? No thx! What we need is quests with meaning not the "Kill x rats" thing...
One is a given, but nobody can expect today's gamer to handle number two.
People are about efficiency, they need dem levels, and all they want to know is how many rats need killin'. In games like AoC you can take a break and listen to VO, and it's proved effective as a narrative to "why" you are doing anything. At least the first time through. In a game without VO, I always suggest emotes and overhead chat-bubbles. The "activity" in the scene alone will have players pay attention, for the most part. If they can run off they will.
I think you confuse "people" with "yourself and some others". Sure, there are people who are numbercrunchers and break down an MMORPG into nothing but stats and probabilities. But there is also a large crowd of people who don't do so. Also I don't think anyone "expects" someone to read the longer quest descriptions. However, that doesn't change that, when the quests are well written, you are getting more out of them than if you don't read them. It's everyones personal decision of course. And depends on the game obviously.
Let's play Fallen Earth (blind, 300 episodes)
Let's play Guild Wars 2 (blind, 45 episodes)
Glad I am not alone in my hatred of quests.
I never could understand why they dont implement "meaningful" quests.... Example- Merchants have limited stock of the items they carry, when they get down to 15% or so of the "max", the merchant offers the player a quest to colllect the items they are low on. ... Mail system- Quest to really deliver the mail (make it timd so if the player fails the quest can be given to another) if nobody takes the quest the mail doesnt go anywhere....
There are so many ways to make meaningful quests (I would site more examples but I am typing in the dark and its a bitch so pls excuse my butchered english)
What do you think of these quests?
"Kill 10 players in the region and you get a golden reward and a further promotion to your knighthood".
or
"Win the siege battle on that Isle before dawn and you get golden coins and you'll be awarded by the King himself in armor improvements.
or
"Conquer this territory for the next hours, so we can control the lands around it and mine the resources"
or
"The territory out there is in the hands of the other faction, they got hold of an exteme secret paper, return it from this suicide mission and bring it to me before sunset. Be ware though, the other faction (of players) control it at the moment and patrol the borders.
All daily PvE quests with a PvP theme around it.
You guessed it ...it depends on the quests....
You can always kill everything around you of course and gain something from mindlessly beating 2.735NPC mobs.
What's more attractive you think ?
Want a real mmorpg? Play WOW with experience turned off mode and be Pve_Pvp King at any level without a rat race.